Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Deutschland: Annual Report 2016

[James Heilman]

Does "15,000 new members to the organization" mean that everyone who edits
DE WP is a member? If so that is amazing :-)

James

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Anna Stillwell 
wrote:

> Thank you. Well done. 15,000 new members to the organization?
> I'd love to talk with you about this, Nicole.
>
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Samuel Patton 
> wrote:
>
> > I agree, the report is great and the videos are inspiring. Thanks for
> > sharing!
> >
> > sam
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 7:15 AM, NC Hasive  wrote:
> >
> > > Really very impressive report. Like the way to present the annual
> report.
> > >
> > > Hasive
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 3:29 PM, Erik Zachte 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wow, very impressive report overall!
> > > >
> > > > I particularly love the videos.
> > > > They are quite informative, the ones with real people are a great
> > > > introduction to what editing entails,
> > > > the animated ones are entertaining and inspiring.
> > > > These videos imo deserve to be used on many of our projects,
> localized
> > or
> > > > subtitled in many languages.
> > > >
> > > > Erik
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: WikimediaAnnounce-l [mailto:wikimediaannounce-l-
> > > > boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Ebber
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 6:23
> > > > To: wikimediaannounce-l
> > > > Subject: [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Deutschland: Annual
> Report
> > > > 2016
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > We have recently published our Annual Report 2016. If you would like
> to
> > > > learn more about examples of Wikimedia Deutschland's projects and
> > > > programmes from last year, you might want to read about one or more
> of
> > > the
> > > > following:
> > > >
> > > > * our new editors campaign,
> > > > * our successes with Wikidata,
> > > > * our Technical Wishes project,
> > > > * our achievements in the political and legal field,
> > > > * our work for Open Education & Open Science
> > > > * our growth in membership numbers
> > > > * our regionalisation efforts
> > > > * our work for the international movement
> > > >
> > > > Inspired by the WMF's recent Annual Reports, we have – for the first
> > time
> > > > – created a visually appealing, responsive online version that also
> > works
> > > > pretty well on mobile. https://2016.wikimedia.de/en
> > > >
> > > > If you rather prefer to print it, please be patient: We will publish
> > the
> > > > oldschool PDF version and link it on the meta [[Reports]] page next
> > week.
> > > >
> > > > Happy reading,
> > > > Nicole
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Nicole Ebber
> > > > Adviser International Relations
> > > > Movement Strategy Track Lead: Organized Groups
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
> > > > V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> > Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > > > unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> > Finanzamt
> > > > für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be
> immediately
> > > > directed to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia
> > > > community. For more information about Wikimedia-l:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > ___
> > > > WikimediaAnnounce-l mailing list
> > > > wikimediaannounc...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaannounce-l
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > *Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **নুরুন্নবী চৌধুরী (হাছিব)*
> > > User: Hasive  |
> > > GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752
> > > ​
> > > Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia  > > user:Hasive>
> > > Board Member | Wikimedia Bangladesh 
> > > fb.com/Hasive  | @nhasive
> > >  | www.nhasive.com
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > _

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright enforcement?

[James Heilman]

It search result only contains a snippet (and thus is fair use). Plus
Google provide attribution in a lot of their results.

J

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:03 PM, geni  wrote:

> On 5 June 2017 at 18:32, The Cunctator  wrote:
> > Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire Wikipedia corpus
> > for their results.
>
>
> However due to the way their output is structured it falls under "you
> can't copyright facts".
>
>
> --
> geni
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>



-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[Cristian Consonni]

On 06/06/2017 01:34, MZMcBride wrote:
> And Faidon posted in November 2014 about the establishment of a Tor relay:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-November/079392.html

Thanks for the pointer, I did know that the WMF was operating a Tor
relay but I didn't recall where to find the details.

> How does your proposal interact (if at all) with the existing Tor relay
> set up in late 2014?

Relays (both middle relays or exit relays) and hidden services are
separate parts of the Tor network, so I would say that this project does
not intersect with the existing relays.

> It's unclear to me whether "Tor onion service" in this context is
> equivalent to a Tor exit node. I'm fairly sure setting up the latter has
> been discussed previously on wikimedia-l and/or wikitech-l.

Can you point me towards this discussion? I wasn't able to find any
reference to that.

In any case, an exit node and a hidden service are very different things.

Exit nodes are tor relays from where the traffic going to an internet
website (on the "clearnet") emerges from the Tor network to the outside.
They are more problematic to manage then non-exit relays because when
somebody uses the Tor network for nefarious purposes such as spam the
target website will see that this traffic is coming from the exit node.

An onion/hidden service is a website that is served only by the Tor
network. See for example this proxy of the Internet Archive:
http://archivecrfip2lpi.onion/
(you need to use the Tor Browser Bundle from https://torproject.org to
be able to visit that address)

I put a simplified explanation on how Tor works and how a hidden service
work on the proposal page[1], and a more detailed explanation of the
difference between an exit node and an onion service[2].

Cristian

[1]:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
[2]:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia#What_is_the_difference_between_an_exit_node_and_a_onion.2Fhidden_service.3F

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[Vi to]

By the way a certain degree of accountability is needed.

There cannot be any privacy for "wikingers" or people bringing cyberbulling
to wiki.

Vito

2017-06-06 2:10 GMT+02:00 Risker :

> As far as I can tell (and from comments made in the past by actual Tor
> users), there is no problem whatsoever for Tor users to read Wikipedia
> while using Tor.  Editing is a completely different situation - and well it
> should be, given the pure unadulterated trash that tends to come in
> whenever a Tor exit node is missed in the routine lockdowns.
>
> I recognize the concerns about ISP tracking and what I assume most
> Wikimedians would consider inappropriate use of their browsing
> information.  I understand why more and more Wikimedians are electing to
> use VPNs and other more secure methods of accessing the internet.  But VPNs
> are also heavily abused - not just by socks, but by individuals who
> consciously and intentionally disrupt projects - and thus more and more of
> them are getting locked in "only accounts can edit" or even "only IPBE can
> edit" mode - often on a global basis, not just one individual wiki.  It
> occurs to me that we can probably be more liberal in handing out IPBE -
> which covers both Tor users and VPN users.  It's not an idea situation,
> since people have to establish their account history before anyone's going
> to hand them IPBE, but it is probably better than nothing.  And yes, the
> place to ask is at Global IPBE, because getting IPBE on only one project is
> unhelpful if one also pitches in elsewhere (Wikidata, Commons, etc.).
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 5 June 2017 at 19:34, MZMcBride  wrote:
>
> > Cristian Consonni wrote:
> > >I have read several discussions on the topic (going back to 2006) and
> > >what I have understood from those is that the biggest issue with editing
> > >via Tor is sockpuppeting.
> >
> > This Phabricator comment you found seems pretty useful:
> > .
> >
> > And Faidon posted in November 2014 about the establishment of a Tor
> relay:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-
> November/079392.html
> >
> > How does your proposal interact (if at all) with the existing Tor relay
> > set up in late 2014?
> >
> > It's unclear to me whether "Tor onion service" in this context is
> > equivalent to a Tor exit node. I'm fairly sure setting up the latter has
> > been discussed previously on wikimedia-l and/or wikitech-l.
> >
> > MZMcBride
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[Risker]

As far as I can tell (and from comments made in the past by actual Tor
users), there is no problem whatsoever for Tor users to read Wikipedia
while using Tor.  Editing is a completely different situation - and well it
should be, given the pure unadulterated trash that tends to come in
whenever a Tor exit node is missed in the routine lockdowns.

I recognize the concerns about ISP tracking and what I assume most
Wikimedians would consider inappropriate use of their browsing
information.  I understand why more and more Wikimedians are electing to
use VPNs and other more secure methods of accessing the internet.  But VPNs
are also heavily abused - not just by socks, but by individuals who
consciously and intentionally disrupt projects - and thus more and more of
them are getting locked in "only accounts can edit" or even "only IPBE can
edit" mode - often on a global basis, not just one individual wiki.  It
occurs to me that we can probably be more liberal in handing out IPBE -
which covers both Tor users and VPN users.  It's not an idea situation,
since people have to establish their account history before anyone's going
to hand them IPBE, but it is probably better than nothing.  And yes, the
place to ask is at Global IPBE, because getting IPBE on only one project is
unhelpful if one also pitches in elsewhere (Wikidata, Commons, etc.).

Risker/Anne

On 5 June 2017 at 19:34, MZMcBride  wrote:

> Cristian Consonni wrote:
> >I have read several discussions on the topic (going back to 2006) and
> >what I have understood from those is that the biggest issue with editing
> >via Tor is sockpuppeting.
>
> This Phabricator comment you found seems pretty useful:
> .
>
> And Faidon posted in November 2014 about the establishment of a Tor relay:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-November/079392.html
>
> How does your proposal interact (if at all) with the existing Tor relay
> set up in late 2014?
>
> It's unclear to me whether "Tor onion service" in this context is
> equivalent to a Tor exit node. I'm fairly sure setting up the latter has
> been discussed previously on wikimedia-l and/or wikitech-l.
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[MZMcBride]

Cristian Consonni wrote:
>I have read several discussions on the topic (going back to 2006) and
>what I have understood from those is that the biggest issue with editing
>via Tor is sockpuppeting.

This Phabricator comment you found seems pretty useful:
.

And Faidon posted in November 2014 about the establishment of a Tor relay:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-November/079392.html

How does your proposal interact (if at all) with the existing Tor relay
set up in late 2014?

It's unclear to me whether "Tor onion service" in this context is
equivalent to a Tor exit node. I'm fairly sure setting up the latter has
been discussed previously on wikimedia-l and/or wikitech-l.

MZMcBride



___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Deutschland: Annual Report 2016

[Anna Stillwell]

Thank you. Well done. 15,000 new members to the organization?
I'd love to talk with you about this, Nicole.

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Samuel Patton  wrote:

> I agree, the report is great and the videos are inspiring. Thanks for
> sharing!
>
> sam
>
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 7:15 AM, NC Hasive  wrote:
>
> > Really very impressive report. Like the way to present the annual report.
> >
> > Hasive
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 3:29 PM, Erik Zachte 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Wow, very impressive report overall!
> > >
> > > I particularly love the videos.
> > > They are quite informative, the ones with real people are a great
> > > introduction to what editing entails,
> > > the animated ones are entertaining and inspiring.
> > > These videos imo deserve to be used on many of our projects, localized
> or
> > > subtitled in many languages.
> > >
> > > Erik
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: WikimediaAnnounce-l [mailto:wikimediaannounce-l-
> > > boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Ebber
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 6:23
> > > To: wikimediaannounce-l
> > > Subject: [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Deutschland: Annual Report
> > > 2016
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > We have recently published our Annual Report 2016. If you would like to
> > > learn more about examples of Wikimedia Deutschland's projects and
> > > programmes from last year, you might want to read about one or more of
> > the
> > > following:
> > >
> > > * our new editors campaign,
> > > * our successes with Wikidata,
> > > * our Technical Wishes project,
> > > * our achievements in the political and legal field,
> > > * our work for Open Education & Open Science
> > > * our growth in membership numbers
> > > * our regionalisation efforts
> > > * our work for the international movement
> > >
> > > Inspired by the WMF's recent Annual Reports, we have – for the first
> time
> > > – created a visually appealing, responsive online version that also
> works
> > > pretty well on mobile. https://2016.wikimedia.de/en
> > >
> > > If you rather prefer to print it, please be patient: We will publish
> the
> > > oldschool PDF version and link it on the meta [[Reports]] page next
> week.
> > >
> > > Happy reading,
> > > Nicole
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Nicole Ebber
> > > Adviser International Relations
> > > Movement Strategy Track Lead: Organized Groups
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
> > > V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > > unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt
> > > für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be immediately
> > > directed to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia
> > > community. For more information about Wikimedia-l:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > ___
> > > WikimediaAnnounce-l mailing list
> > > wikimediaannounc...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaannounce-l
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **নুরুন্নবী চৌধুরী (হাছিব)*
> > User: Hasive  |
> > GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752
> > ​
> > Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia  > user:Hasive>
> > Board Member | Wikimedia Bangladesh 
> > fb.com/Hasive  | @nhasive
> >  | www.nhasive.com
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikim

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[Cristian Consonni]

On 05/06/2017 22:19, Todd Allen wrote:
>  With the recent ruling about ISPs being allowed to collect and sell user
> data in the US, we're at "highly exceptional circumstances". Good Internet
> citizens allow anonymous participation. We can soft block them, but surely
> we can revert vandals and block their accounts.
> 
> If we can't even manage that, we have problems far deeper than Tor.

On 05/06/2017 22:34, Gabriel Thullen wrote:
> I agree that sockpuppets are a real problem, but they manage fine
right now
> without going through Tor. There are quite a few ways to connect up using
> different IPs as it is now, so the real problem remains: the
sockpuppeteers
> themselves.

I understand your point of view and I am sympathetic to it. I also would
like to find a solution to this problem right now, but what I have seen
reading the past discussions is that in the last 10+ years our community
has not been able to find a shared, workable proposal for allowing
editing over Tor for everybody. In the end, I trust the opinion of those
who have participated in the past discussions (with many very
experienced users participating in them) to be better informed than
myself on the topic of fighting sockpuppeteers, vandals and spammers.

At the same time, what I am proposing is dealing with a single problem
at a time, and also a different thing. An onion service would be good
regardless of the fact that it can be used just for reading or for
reading and writing.

To the best of my knowledge, the current proposal shouldn't cause any
disruption to the projects with our current policies (and, please, you
are invited point out any issues you may see with it).

Also, if we see that this service is used then we may have an additional
data point to reason about the opportunity of allowing editing over Tor.
In other words, if we have many readers maybe we could have some
editors, too, and it would be more justified to put some resources
towards trying to solve this much harder problem.

Cristian



___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[Gabriel Thullen]

I agree that sockpuppets are a real problem, but they manage fine right now
without going through Tor. There are quite a few ways to connect up using
different IPs as it is now, so the real problem remains: the sockpuppeteers
themselves.

Gabe

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 10:20 PM, Cristian Consonni 
wrote:

> On 05/06/2017 19:43, David Gerard wrote:
> > Editing may be a tricky one, particularly on en:wp, which has found
> > Tor exit points to overwhelmingly be fountains of garbage, and
> > automatically blocks them.
>
> On 05/06/2017 19:47, John wrote:
> > enabling read access via Tor shouldn't be an issue, however editing
> should
> > not be allowed due to high volume of known abuse from that vector.
>
> On 05/06/2017 21:01, John wrote:
> > Im not going to violate BEANS, but even allowing accounts to edit without
> > further hurdles isn't going to work. Because of the anonymity that tor
> > provides its fairly easy to cause widespread issues. When the vandals
> start
> > actually using tactics the flood gates of TOR will cause massive issues
> > cross wiki that requires steward level intervention on a regular basis.
>
> Allow me to reiterate that I am not proposing any change to the current
> policies regarding editing via Tor or other open proxies. Even with an
> onion service, anonymous editing will still be blocked and registered
> users will still need to apply for IP block exemption before being able
> to edit.
>
> I have read several discussions on the topic (going back to 2006) and
> what I have understood from those is that the biggest issue with editing
> via Tor is sockpuppeting. Vandals and spammer could be handled (and
> blocked), sockpuppets would be much harder to identify. The problem is
> hard because it solving it requires to have a way to identify that two
> accounts with different IPs are related to the same real person without
> at the same time destroying the anonymity provided by Tor. There has
> been research on the topic (see, for example, Nymble[1]) but at the very
> least it would require some additional technical setup and testing.
>
> With this proposal I am not trying to solve that problem.
>
> I am just pointing out that:
> 1. having an onion service would increase the privacy of our readers and
> the (very few) people who are already allowed to edit via Tor.
> 2. is harder to block access to an onion service than to wikipedia.org
> (you basically need to block all accesses to Tor, but there are ways to
> circumvent that, too[2]).
> 3. supporting privacy-enhancing technology is good and people may need
> it or maybe they will start using Tor more.
>
> As it stands now, the biggest impact of this project (if it is
> successful) would be on operations and analytics.
>
> Cristian
>
> [1]: https://cgi.soic.indiana.edu/~kapadia/nymble/overview.php
> [2]: https://www.torproject.org/docs/pluggable-transports
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[Cristian Consonni]

On 05/06/2017 19:43, David Gerard wrote:
> Editing may be a tricky one, particularly on en:wp, which has found
> Tor exit points to overwhelmingly be fountains of garbage, and
> automatically blocks them.

On 05/06/2017 19:47, John wrote:
> enabling read access via Tor shouldn't be an issue, however editing should
> not be allowed due to high volume of known abuse from that vector.

On 05/06/2017 21:01, John wrote:
> Im not going to violate BEANS, but even allowing accounts to edit without
> further hurdles isn't going to work. Because of the anonymity that tor
> provides its fairly easy to cause widespread issues. When the vandals
start
> actually using tactics the flood gates of TOR will cause massive issues
> cross wiki that requires steward level intervention on a regular basis.

Allow me to reiterate that I am not proposing any change to the current
policies regarding editing via Tor or other open proxies. Even with an
onion service, anonymous editing will still be blocked and registered
users will still need to apply for IP block exemption before being able
to edit.

I have read several discussions on the topic (going back to 2006) and
what I have understood from those is that the biggest issue with editing
via Tor is sockpuppeting. Vandals and spammer could be handled (and
blocked), sockpuppets would be much harder to identify. The problem is
hard because it solving it requires to have a way to identify that two
accounts with different IPs are related to the same real person without
at the same time destroying the anonymity provided by Tor. There has
been research on the topic (see, for example, Nymble[1]) but at the very
least it would require some additional technical setup and testing.

With this proposal I am not trying to solve that problem.

I am just pointing out that:
1. having an onion service would increase the privacy of our readers and
the (very few) people who are already allowed to edit via Tor.
2. is harder to block access to an onion service than to wikipedia.org
(you basically need to block all accesses to Tor, but there are ways to
circumvent that, too[2]).
3. supporting privacy-enhancing technology is good and people may need
it or maybe they will start using Tor more.

As it stands now, the biggest impact of this project (if it is
successful) would be on operations and analytics.

Cristian

[1]: https://cgi.soic.indiana.edu/~kapadia/nymble/overview.php
[2]: https://www.torproject.org/docs/pluggable-transports

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[Todd Allen]

 With the recent ruling about ISPs being allowed to collect and sell user
data in the US, we're at "highly exceptional circumstances". Good Internet
citizens allow anonymous participation. We can soft block them, but surely
we can revert vandals and block their accounts.

If we can't even manage that, we have problems far deeper than Tor.

Todd

On Jun 5, 2017 1:48 PM, "Yongmin H."  wrote:

> Nope.
>
> Tor users needs `ip block exempt` or `global ip block exempt` to edit.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IP_block_exemption seem to say so
> too. ("In highly exceptional circumstances, an editor may be permitted to
> edit anonymously, via Tor or another anonymizing proxy.")
>
> --
> Yongmin
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> https://wp.revi.blog
> Please note that this address is list-only address and any non-mailing
> list mails will be treated as spam.
> Please use https://encrypt.to/0x947f156f16250de39788c3c35b625da5beff197a.
>
> 2017. 6. 6. 03:53 Gabriel Thullen  작성:
>
> > I imagine registered users could edit through TOR. That is how it works
> > with my school IP: anonymous edits are blocked, account creation as well,
> > but you can sign in an edit.
> >
> >> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 7:47 PM, John  wrote:
> >>
> >> enabling read access via Tor shouldn't be an issue, however editing
> should
> >> not be allowed due to high volume of known abuse from that vector.
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:43 PM, David Gerard 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Editing may be a tricky one, particularly on en:wp, which has found
> >>> Tor exit points to overwhelmingly be fountains of garbage, and
> >>> automatically blocks them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - d.
> >>>
> >>>
>  On 5 June 2017 at 18:30, David Cuenca Tudela 
> wrote:
>  I think that's an excellent idea and very much aligned with our
> >>> commitment
>  to provide free information also for those who are living under
> >>> unfavorable
>  conditions.
> 
>  I personally endorse it.
> 
>  Thanks Cristian for suggesting it.
> 
>  Regards,
>  Micru
> 
> > On Jun 5, 2017 19:11, "Cristian Consonni" 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have written a proposal about setting up an onion (hidden) service
> >> to
> > serve Wikipedia over Tor:
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
> > Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
> >
> > I was thinking about this and I also discovered that the Internet
> > Archive is experimenting with a very similar idea:
> > www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/750-
> > Freedom-of-Information.html
> >
> > I would like to have some feedback on this, I am also in contact with
> > the author of the aforementioned proxy which could be able to give
> >> some
> > help in setting it up.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Cristian
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >> ,
> > 
>  ___
>  Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>  New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>> 
> >>>
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> >>
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[Yongmin H.]

Nope.

Tor users needs `ip block exempt` or `global ip block exempt` to edit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IP_block_exemption seem to say so too. 
("In highly exceptional circumstances, an editor may be permitted to edit 
anonymously, via Tor or another anonymizing proxy.")

--
Yongmin

Sent from my iPhone
https://wp.revi.blog
Please note that this address is list-only address and any non-mailing list 
mails will be treated as spam.
Please use https://encrypt.to/0x947f156f16250de39788c3c35b625da5beff197a.

2017. 6. 6. 03:53 Gabriel Thullen  작성:

> I imagine registered users could edit through TOR. That is how it works
> with my school IP: anonymous edits are blocked, account creation as well,
> but you can sign in an edit.
> 
>> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 7:47 PM, John  wrote:
>> 
>> enabling read access via Tor shouldn't be an issue, however editing should
>> not be allowed due to high volume of known abuse from that vector.
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:43 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Editing may be a tricky one, particularly on en:wp, which has found
>>> Tor exit points to overwhelmingly be fountains of garbage, and
>>> automatically blocks them.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> - d.
>>> 
>>> 
 On 5 June 2017 at 18:30, David Cuenca Tudela  wrote:
 I think that's an excellent idea and very much aligned with our
>>> commitment
 to provide free information also for those who are living under
>>> unfavorable
 conditions.
 
 I personally endorse it.
 
 Thanks Cristian for suggesting it.
 
 Regards,
 Micru
 
> On Jun 5, 2017 19:11, "Cristian Consonni"  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have written a proposal about setting up an onion (hidden) service
>> to
> serve Wikipedia over Tor:
> 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
> Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
> 
> I was thinking about this and I also discovered that the Internet
> Archive is experimenting with a very similar idea:
> www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/750-
> Freedom-of-Information.html
> 
> I would like to have some feedback on this, I am also in contact with
> the author of the aforementioned proxy which could be able to give
>> some
> help in setting it up.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Cristian
> 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> ,
> 
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
 New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>> 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright enforcement?

[geni]

On 5 June 2017 at 18:32, The Cunctator  wrote:
> Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire Wikipedia corpus
> for their results.


However due to the way their output is structured it falls under "you
can't copyright facts".


-- 
geni

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[John]

Im not going to violate BEANS, but even allowing accounts to edit without
further hurdles isn't going to work. Because of the anonymity that tor
provides its fairly easy to cause widespread issues. When the vandals start
actually using tactics the flood gates of TOR will cause massive issues
cross wiki that requires steward level intervention on a regular basis.

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Gabriel Thullen  wrote:

> I imagine registered users could edit through TOR. That is how it works
> with my school IP: anonymous edits are blocked, account creation as well,
> but you can sign in an edit.
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 7:47 PM, John  wrote:
>
> > enabling read access via Tor shouldn't be an issue, however editing
> should
> > not be allowed due to high volume of known abuse from that vector.
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:43 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
> >
> > > Editing may be a tricky one, particularly on en:wp, which has found
> > > Tor exit points to overwhelmingly be fountains of garbage, and
> > > automatically blocks them.
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5 June 2017 at 18:30, David Cuenca Tudela 
> wrote:
> > > > I think that's an excellent idea and very much aligned with our
> > > commitment
> > > > to provide free information also for those who are living under
> > > unfavorable
> > > > conditions.
> > > >
> > > > I personally endorse it.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Cristian for suggesting it.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Micru
> > > >
> > > > On Jun 5, 2017 19:11, "Cristian Consonni" 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >> I have written a proposal about setting up an onion (hidden) service
> > to
> > > >> serve Wikipedia over Tor:
> > > >>
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
> > > >> Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
> > > >>
> > > >> I was thinking about this and I also discovered that the Internet
> > > >> Archive is experimenting with a very similar idea:
> > > >> www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/750-
> > > >> Freedom-of-Information.html
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to have some feedback on this, I am also in contact
> with
> > > >> the author of the aforementioned proxy which could be able to give
> > some
> > > >> help in setting it up.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank you.
> > > >>
> > > >> Cristian
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > > >>  unsubscribe>
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[John]

Im not going to violate BEANS, but even allowing accounts to edit without
further hurdles isn't going to work. Because of the anonymity that tor
provides its fairly easy to cause widespread issues. When the vandals start
actually using tactics the flood gates of TOR will cause massive issues
cross wiki that requires steward level intervention on a regular basis.

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Gabriel Thullen  wrote:

> I imagine registered users could edit through TOR. That is how it works
> with my school IP: anonymous edits are blocked, account creation as well,
> but you can sign in an edit.
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 7:47 PM, John  wrote:
>
> > enabling read access via Tor shouldn't be an issue, however editing
> should
> > not be allowed due to high volume of known abuse from that vector.
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:43 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
> >
> > > Editing may be a tricky one, particularly on en:wp, which has found
> > > Tor exit points to overwhelmingly be fountains of garbage, and
> > > automatically blocks them.
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5 June 2017 at 18:30, David Cuenca Tudela 
> wrote:
> > > > I think that's an excellent idea and very much aligned with our
> > > commitment
> > > > to provide free information also for those who are living under
> > > unfavorable
> > > > conditions.
> > > >
> > > > I personally endorse it.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Cristian for suggesting it.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Micru
> > > >
> > > > On Jun 5, 2017 19:11, "Cristian Consonni" 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >> I have written a proposal about setting up an onion (hidden) service
> > to
> > > >> serve Wikipedia over Tor:
> > > >>
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
> > > >> Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
> > > >>
> > > >> I was thinking about this and I also discovered that the Internet
> > > >> Archive is experimenting with a very similar idea:
> > > >> www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/750-
> > > >> Freedom-of-Information.html
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to have some feedback on this, I am also in contact
> with
> > > >> the author of the aforementioned proxy which could be able to give
> > some
> > > >> help in setting it up.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank you.
> > > >>
> > > >> Cristian
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > > >>  unsubscribe>
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[Gabriel Thullen]

I imagine registered users could edit through TOR. That is how it works
with my school IP: anonymous edits are blocked, account creation as well,
but you can sign in an edit.

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 7:47 PM, John  wrote:

> enabling read access via Tor shouldn't be an issue, however editing should
> not be allowed due to high volume of known abuse from that vector.
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:43 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
>
> > Editing may be a tricky one, particularly on en:wp, which has found
> > Tor exit points to overwhelmingly be fountains of garbage, and
> > automatically blocks them.
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> >
> > On 5 June 2017 at 18:30, David Cuenca Tudela  wrote:
> > > I think that's an excellent idea and very much aligned with our
> > commitment
> > > to provide free information also for those who are living under
> > unfavorable
> > > conditions.
> > >
> > > I personally endorse it.
> > >
> > > Thanks Cristian for suggesting it.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Micru
> > >
> > > On Jun 5, 2017 19:11, "Cristian Consonni"  wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> I have written a proposal about setting up an onion (hidden) service
> to
> > >> serve Wikipedia over Tor:
> > >>
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
> > >> Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
> > >>
> > >> I was thinking about this and I also discovered that the Internet
> > >> Archive is experimenting with a very similar idea:
> > >> www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/750-
> > >> Freedom-of-Information.html
> > >>
> > >> I would like to have some feedback on this, I am also in contact with
> > >> the author of the aforementioned proxy which could be able to give
> some
> > >> help in setting it up.
> > >>
> > >> Thank you.
> > >>
> > >> Cristian
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> 
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[John]

enabling read access via Tor shouldn't be an issue, however editing should
not be allowed due to high volume of known abuse from that vector.

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:43 PM, David Gerard  wrote:

> Editing may be a tricky one, particularly on en:wp, which has found
> Tor exit points to overwhelmingly be fountains of garbage, and
> automatically blocks them.
>
>
> - d.
>
>
> On 5 June 2017 at 18:30, David Cuenca Tudela  wrote:
> > I think that's an excellent idea and very much aligned with our
> commitment
> > to provide free information also for those who are living under
> unfavorable
> > conditions.
> >
> > I personally endorse it.
> >
> > Thanks Cristian for suggesting it.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Micru
> >
> > On Jun 5, 2017 19:11, "Cristian Consonni"  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I have written a proposal about setting up an onion (hidden) service to
> >> serve Wikipedia over Tor:
> >>
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
> >> Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
> >>
> >> I was thinking about this and I also discovered that the Internet
> >> Archive is experimenting with a very similar idea:
> >> www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/750-
> >> Freedom-of-Information.html
> >>
> >> I would like to have some feedback on this, I am also in contact with
> >> the author of the aforementioned proxy which could be able to give some
> >> help in setting it up.
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >> Cristian
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[David Gerard]

Editing may be a tricky one, particularly on en:wp, which has found
Tor exit points to overwhelmingly be fountains of garbage, and
automatically blocks them.


- d.


On 5 June 2017 at 18:30, David Cuenca Tudela  wrote:
> I think that's an excellent idea and very much aligned with our commitment
> to provide free information also for those who are living under unfavorable
> conditions.
>
> I personally endorse it.
>
> Thanks Cristian for suggesting it.
>
> Regards,
> Micru
>
> On Jun 5, 2017 19:11, "Cristian Consonni"  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have written a proposal about setting up an onion (hidden) service to
>> serve Wikipedia over Tor:
>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
>> Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
>>
>> I was thinking about this and I also discovered that the Internet
>> Archive is experimenting with a very similar idea:
>> www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/750-
>> Freedom-of-Information.html
>>
>> I would like to have some feedback on this, I am also in contact with
>> the author of the aforementioned proxy which could be able to give some
>> help in setting it up.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Cristian
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright enforcement?

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
Yes, probably and in the process they do exactly what we aim to achieve;
share in the sum of all knowledge. What they do not do is claim copyright.
They are the number one referral site for our traffic.

You may be right in a narrow sense but it will ill serve us to do something
about it.
Thanks,
   GerardM

On 5 June 2017 at 19:32, The Cunctator  wrote:

> Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire Wikipedia corpus
> for their results.
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 12:40 PM, James Heilman  wrote:
>
> > Well "fair use" applies, but if the amount of content used goes beyond
> fair
> > use than it needs to be indicated that the content is under an open
> > license.
> >
> > J
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 10:32 AM, The Cunctator 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I've been a bit out of the loop on this for a while, so please be kind
> to
> > > the oldbie - what's current Wikimedia policy on adaptive reuse of
> > Wikipedia
> > > content into non-free publications?
> > >
> > > E.g. Graphiq
> > > https://www.graphiq.com/terms-and-conditions
> > > http://colleges.startclass.com/l/1929/Harvard-University
> > >
> > > and Google
> > > https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/terms/
> > > https://www.google.com/search?q=harvard+university
> > >
> > > I recognize that Google gives Wikimedia a lot of money, even if the
> > > foundation isn't very transparent about that, but I'd think that
> doesn't
> > > free the company from following CC BY-SA.
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Heilman
> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >
> > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright enforcement?

[The Cunctator]

Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire Wikipedia corpus
for their results.

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 12:40 PM, James Heilman  wrote:

> Well "fair use" applies, but if the amount of content used goes beyond fair
> use than it needs to be indicated that the content is under an open
> license.
>
> J
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 10:32 AM, The Cunctator 
> wrote:
>
> > I've been a bit out of the loop on this for a while, so please be kind to
> > the oldbie - what's current Wikimedia policy on adaptive reuse of
> Wikipedia
> > content into non-free publications?
> >
> > E.g. Graphiq
> > https://www.graphiq.com/terms-and-conditions
> > http://colleges.startclass.com/l/1929/Harvard-University
> >
> > and Google
> > https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/terms/
> > https://www.google.com/search?q=harvard+university
> >
> > I recognize that Google gives Wikimedia a lot of money, even if the
> > foundation isn't very transparent about that, but I'd think that doesn't
> > free the company from following CC BY-SA.
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[David Cuenca Tudela]

I think that's an excellent idea and very much aligned with our commitment
to provide free information also for those who are living under unfavorable
conditions.

I personally endorse it.

Thanks Cristian for suggesting it.

Regards,
Micru

On Jun 5, 2017 19:11, "Cristian Consonni"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have written a proposal about setting up an onion (hidden) service to
> serve Wikipedia over Tor:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
> Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
>
> I was thinking about this and I also discovered that the Internet
> Archive is experimenting with a very similar idea:
> www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/750-
> Freedom-of-Information.html
>
> I would like to have some feedback on this, I am also in contact with
> the author of the aforementioned proxy which could be able to give some
> help in setting it up.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Cristian
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

[Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

[Cristian Consonni]

Hi,

I have written a proposal about setting up an onion (hidden) service to
serve Wikipedia over Tor:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia

I was thinking about this and I also discovered that the Internet
Archive is experimenting with a very similar idea:
www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/750-Freedom-of-Information.html

I would like to have some feedback on this, I am also in contact with
the author of the aforementioned proxy which could be able to give some
help in setting it up.

Thank you.

Cristian

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright enforcement?

[James Heilman]

Well "fair use" applies, but if the amount of content used goes beyond fair
use than it needs to be indicated that the content is under an open license.

J

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 10:32 AM, The Cunctator  wrote:

> I've been a bit out of the loop on this for a while, so please be kind to
> the oldbie - what's current Wikimedia policy on adaptive reuse of Wikipedia
> content into non-free publications?
>
> E.g. Graphiq
> https://www.graphiq.com/terms-and-conditions
> http://colleges.startclass.com/l/1929/Harvard-University
>
> and Google
> https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/terms/
> https://www.google.com/search?q=harvard+university
>
> I recognize that Google gives Wikimedia a lot of money, even if the
> foundation isn't very transparent about that, but I'd think that doesn't
> free the company from following CC BY-SA.
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 




-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

[Wikimedia-l] Copyright enforcement?

[The Cunctator]

I've been a bit out of the loop on this for a while, so please be kind to
the oldbie - what's current Wikimedia policy on adaptive reuse of Wikipedia
content into non-free publications?

E.g. Graphiq
https://www.graphiq.com/terms-and-conditions
http://colleges.startclass.com/l/1929/Harvard-University

and Google
https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/terms/
https://www.google.com/search?q=harvard+university

I recognize that Google gives Wikimedia a lot of money, even if the
foundation isn't very transparent about that, but I'd think that doesn't
free the company from following CC BY-SA.
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WFM 91.7 FM becomes our broadcasting partner in Nigeria

[Anna Stillwell]

Congratulations.
:)
/a

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 2:26 PM, shola ishola 
wrote:

>
> Dear wikipedians,
>
> We are delighted to announce that we have reached agreement with the above
> named prestigious broadcasting station to partner with us in reaching
> further audience in Nigeria.
>
> The agreement will assist us in reaching wider audience and also
> actualizing some of our core projects in alignment with the pinnacle of
> their establishment, which is to promote women in Nigeria.
>
> I will keep you inform as things unfold.
> Best RegardsOlushola
> Welcome to WFM 91.7 - NIGERIA'S FIRST RADIO STATION FOR WOMEN AND THEIR
> FAMILIES
>
> |
> |   |
> Welcome to WFM 91.7 - NIGERIA'S FIRST RADIO STATION FOR WOMEN AND THEIR
> FAMILIES
>  Keeping listeners company throughout the day with quality, relevant,
> informative and entertaining programmes tha...  |  |
>
>   |
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Katherine Maher is making me happy this week

[James Heilman]

Agree. Just under two years ago, I thought Katherine would make an
excellent ED. And she has not disappointed.

James

On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 2:45 AM, Dariusz Jemielniak 
wrote:

> with the right leader, things suddenly start to click just right :)
>
> dj
>
> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Tanweer Morshed 
> wrote:
>
> > Thank you Micru for bringing the talk of Katherine in the mailing list, I
> > probably wouldn't have watched it if you didn't post it here.
> >
> > I'd like to thank Katherine for the charismatic presentation at
> University
> > of Melbourne, depicting the essence of the Wikimedia movement in the
> > perspective of our times. We value your leadership in the movement and
> your
> > effort to highlight the goodness of millions of Wikimedians across the
> > world. This isn't very common that we acknowledge the positivity and
> > contribution of people around us, which we should do more to encourage
> and
> > assure them that they are doing great, thus uplifting the energy within
> > them. Thank you Katherine!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tanweer
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 10:00 AM, David Cuenca Tudela 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello everybody,
> > >
> > > Normally in our community we used to send angry emails when we were not
> > > happy with how things are going, and we were not sending enough emails
> of
> > > satisfaction and encouragement. I don't know who started it, but the
> > "what
> > > is making​ you happy this week" series might be one of the best social
> > > achievements our movement has reached.
> > >
> > > To continue on that line I would like to tell you what made me happy
> this
> > > week, but about Katherine Maher, our current leader. In particular
> about
> > > this video:
> > > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8BuyKmjy7Rw
> > >
> > > If you haven't watched it, do it now and get to know Katherine. I think
> > we
> > > as a community don't deserve a leader like her, at least not yet. The
> > > reason is because she's​ way more advanced than us at seeing how the
> > world
> > > is going and what is there to be done about it.
> > >
> > > We can have as many Strategy Talks as we want, but as long as we as a
> > > community are not ready to rally to put ourselves behind Katherine and
> > > fully support her with her mission, it will be all for nothing.
> > >
> > > The way I perceive Katherine is a charismatic leader full of light, but
> > her
> > > light is not reaching us fully because we are not giving her enough
> power
> > > yet. I want to invite all of you as individuals to reflect upon this
> and
> > > ask yourself if you are as ready as me to support Katherine for the
> > > personal benefit and the whole movement benefit.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have never done this before but allow me some tolerance to speak on
> > > behalf of the community. Not because I have been elected but because I
> > love
> > > it so much and I want the best for it. So if I were to speak on behalf
> of
> > > the community I would tell this to Katherine: stop having so much
> > patience
> > > with us.
> > >
> > > There was a time when patience was good and necessary, but not anymore.
> > Set
> > > yourself free and do as you please, because I see no possible harm in
> > your
> > > intentions. Don't be afraid about going too fast. The community needs
> > > challenges to grow and if you don't bring them forward, we will not
> grow
> > > enough to face the world of tomorrow, or today, or yesterday.
> > >
> > > We are behind in our progress because of you, Katherine. We need that
> you
> > > bring to the table ALL what you can do, but you need to do it wisely,
> and
> > > you lack a bit of that too.
> > > So my advice is to challenge us, but ask first wise people in the
> > movement
> > > first. There are a few of them, but they do exist: Andrea Zanni, Asaf
> > > Bartov, even Délphine (never meet her properly) are clear examples of
> > wise
> > > people. Over time and with practice you will be able to find more, and
> in
> > > the end you will be wise enough to enlighten us all.
> > >
> > > In my more than 10 years in the movement and my particular involved in
> > > leadership, I could have never imagined that we would be so lucky to
> > find a
> > > leader like Katherine. When by chance she was here in Belgium, I live
> in
> > > Leuven, I asked to meet her. Of course it was not possible, but I use
> the
> > > opportunity to tell her what I wanted to in that meeting: Katherine, I
> > love
> > > you, not in a romantic way, but the way you are as a person, don't be
> > > afraid if others cannot see you for who you are, you are just great the
> > way
> > > you are.
> > >
> > > In a past Conference I brought some gifts to people I cared about, but
> I
> > am
> > > lucky that I won't be attending this Wikimania (only the Wikidata
> > > conference this year). I feel lucky because I will not have to bring a
> > gift
> > > for Katherine, the only person who was deserved my admiration this
> year,
> > > and it would be