Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

[Alphos OGame]

Good evening Émeric, good evening all.

Allow me to reply. Oh wait, that's right, I don't need you to allow the
publication of emails on this mailing list - this sure comes as a change,
and a welcome one too !

I won't be speaking of any member of the community, whether volunteer or
employee, it is not the purpose of this email.

You shockingly ask of a union representative the identities of other
unionized workers. It may come as a surprise to you, but, at least in
France, whether one is unionized or not is part of their private life, and
should in no circumstance be divulged by anyone other than themselves,
should they feel the desire to. That desire can't be coerced, and nobody
should rob someone else of their private life or its divulgation.
Aside from that, *in the unlikely event* the union section comprises a
single person, or roughly 10% of all Wikimédia France employees, that would
still be a feat, and more than the national average of about 5% in the
private sector and just under 10% overall ; but union sections MUST (RFC
2119) be composed of at least two people, per article L2142-1 of french
Labour Law. So there's at least two employees in that section, which is at
least 20% (give or take), way above the national average.

Lastly, I'd like to address your accusations of lying.
It seems to me that the only answer you ever provide to any criticism is
that it's all a lie. In other words, you're quick to slap everyone with
Kellyanne Conway's motto, "fake news", but you lack her talent and, as
she's had dips on it, the element of surprise.
I've faced them before myself, when I tried to explain to the rest of the
members an email YOU sent to discussions@, the non-public mailing list of
Wikimédia France, and its subtext. Specifically, the email I sent on May
6th was rejected, and I was told on May 7th by a representative of the
Board of Trustees (of which you were chairman) it was all a "web of
ravings" ("marasme de spéculations") that was based on former members' side
of the story — former members which, by the way, I hadn't had any
meaningful contact in a few years — ; when in fact, it was solely based on
YOUR version of the story, using basic reasoning skills.
As it turns out, and as a few people can attest, a good amount of what I "
*raved*" in my email turned out to not just be generally true, but rather
accurate as well.
So forgive me to say, but I feel you lack proper footing to decide on who's
lying and who's not.

Really, the whole story is, for lack of a better word, and even though
Donald Trump has already used it, "sad" ; and it would be best for the
former Board of Trustees, if not to apologize to the people involved, to at
least lay low about it.

Happy Thanksgiving dinner to the ones who have it, and happy
nondenominational evening to the ones who don't.

Alphos
Member of WMFr, despite the odds


2017-11-23 20:54 GMT+01:00 Emeric Vallespi :

> Sylvain,
>
> I have to answer to your email where you’re especially lying.
> You say that you’re writing on behalf of a union section of the employees
> of Wikimedia France but I’m personally curious to know the weight of this
> union section. My question is actually: who else is represented by your
> email, if not yourself?
>
> Moreover, you’re saying that you received a « warning » (?) because you
> had a girlfriend. Is it serious?
> Your employer asked you to distinguish professional time and personal
> time. Indeed, you were reminded that you had to dedicate your work hours to
> the missions that were devoted to you and not to solve problems related to
> your personal life, especially if it interferes with organization’s
> activities and governance. It is also you who came, on your own, to tell us
> about the complexity of your personal and relationship situation in order
> to benefit of professional arrangements. The direction never looked for,
> nor asked, any information on this subject.
>
> You’re mentioning the cancellation of the letter. Since, to my knowledge,
> no sanction has been filed to your HR record, I do not really see what have
> been canceled.
> I can understand that supporting your new board of trustees, involved in
> the governance issues and in the criminal complaints filed is critical to
> show your loyalty.
>
> Do you know how impatient am I to discover your next fable? I guess the
> only one never mentioned yet is maybe about a murder or something (although
> a streetfight scenario has already been invented x’D).
>
> I think it was important to re-explain all those points so that the
> community, which is - again - unnecessarily taken as witness, is not
> deceived by a scenario built from scratch.
> Again, to discredit the movement by such erroneous but public accusations
> still shows that only personal interests and vainness matter in this
> conflict with some people.
>
> For months, several lies have been told by different people. Because the
> Wikimedia community protect itself and its 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Does anyone know what wikimedia france are up to with the Request Network ?

[Alphos OGame]

Hello,

I'm but a simple member of Wikimedia France, but I trust the Post Scriptum
by Nadine was clear on the matter : "no other cryptocurrency donations
project is planned". And yes, I believe that includes Foldingcoin.
Personally, I'm fond of Folding@Home, I've even given more than my fair
share of processing time to the project some time ago ; but I don't need to
receive hard cash in return - especially when it's neither hard nor cash.
Whether you like it or not, it does waste electricity when an alternative
exists : the old way of having people pay dimes for a wee bit of
electricity to calculate protein folding instead of the new way of
performing copious calculations for the blockchain and a few cheap protein
foldings on the side.
It doesn't matter what the end goal is, even as laudable as F@H : a
blockchain is and always will be calculation-expensive, thus a waste of
electricity, by its very design. And Foldingcoin still relies on it.
Please don't be "that guy", and stick to F@H rather than push for FLDC.

Roger / Alphos



2018-05-28 17:23 GMT+02:00 James Salsman :

> Hi Nadine, thank you for this update.
>
> Does the French Chapter have a position on replacing bitcoin mining
> with foldingcoin (http://foldingcoin.net)? I hope that all Wikimedians
> will oppose the wasteful consumption of electricity when useful
> alternatives exist.
>
> Best regards,
> Jim
>
> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 7:50 AM, Nadine Le Lirzin
>  wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Update on the topic.
> >
> > Since Request Network were so slow and reluctant to change their delusive
> > communication into a fair and clean information, Wikimédia France broke
> the
> > agreement with them. Thus, this partnership is over.
> >
> > We deleted our blog post about it. And we keep on trying to obtain the
> same
> > from Request Network (who are turning a deaf ear until now).
> >
> > Once again, sorry for the noise and thanks for alerting us,
> >
> > Nadine Le Lirzin
> > *Secrétaire du conseil d'administration*
> > *Wikimédia France*
> >
> > *Post-scriptum:* no other cryptocurrency donations project is planned ^^'
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2018-04-28 17:12 GMT+02:00 Nadine Le Lirzin :
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> First of all, thanks for reporting the issue. Impressive reactivity :)
> >>
> >> Then, sorry for the intempestive and unwelcome communication about this
> >> local partnership. The agreement is quite clear, it has been
> established by
> >> Wikimédia France (of course *not* in name of Wikimedia Foundation) and
> >> our partners are obviously *not allowed* to use any of Wikimedia
> projects
> >> marks.
> >>
> >> Today, Request Network updated their posts to clarify things and
> >> suppressed Wikipedia logo from their communication messages :
> >> — https://www.reddit.com/r/RequestNetwork/comments/8firkq/up
> >> date_to_clarify_wikimedia_france_partnership/
> >> — https://blog.request.network/request-network-project-
> >> update-april-27th-2018-partnership-with-wikimedia-
> >> woocommerce-plugin-c598372e9b58
> >>
> >> We updated our blog post as well, with an introductive warning :
> >> — https://www.wikimedia.fr/2018/04/27/wikimedia-france-annon
> >> ce-partenariat-fondation-request-network-accepter-donations-
> >> crypto-monnaies/
> >>
> >> After the week-end and labor day (1 May), we are expecting that all
> >> occurrences of this misunderstanding have disappeared.
> >>
> >>
> >> Nadine Le Lirzin
> >>
> >> *Secretary of the Board*
> >> *Wikimédia France *
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2018-04-27 16:23 GMT+02:00 Devouard (gmail) :
> >>
> >>> Definitly confusing.
> >>>
> >>> See also this : https://blog.request.network/r
> >>> equest-network-project-update-april-27th-2018-partnership-wi
> >>> th-wikimedia-woocommerce-plugin-c598372e9b58
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Florence
> >>>
> >>> Le 27/04/2018 à 15:49, geni a écrit :
> >>>
>  According to their twitter feed they have announced a partnership with
>  something called the "Request Network‏" for cryptocurrency donations.
>  Also this article here
> 
>  https://www.wikimedia.fr/2018/04/27/wikimedia-france-annonce
>  -partenariat-fondation-request-network-accepter-donations-cr
>  ypto-monnaies/
> 
>  Ok. I don't approve but I'm not french so not its not an area where I
>  can reasonably expect anyone to pay any attention to my opinions.
> 
>  What concerns me is that they have retweeted something claiming the
>  partnership is with the wikimedia foundation rather than just
>  wikimedia france:
> 
>  https://twitter.com/wikimedia_fr?lang=en
> 
>  Is some form of clarification possible?
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New language code for Western Armenian language

[Alphos OGame]

That's fantastic !

Proof, if it was ever needed, that the Wikimedia movement can have an effect on 
the "outside world" other than collecting and providing information ; Wikimedia 
Armenia actually took the leading part in bettering an international standard !

My most heartfelt congratulations :-)

Alphos


> Le 1 févr. 2018 à 00:00, Delphine Ménard  a écrit :
> 
> Congratulations to Wikimedia Armenia for those truly great efforts!
> 
> best,
> 
> Delphine
> 
> 2018-01-31 11:39 GMT+01:00 David Saroyan :
> 
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> I'm pleased to announce that the efforts of Wikimedia Armenia to get
>> separate ISO 639-3 language code for Western Armenian [1] were finally
>> succeeded. SIL International, the ISO 639-3 Registration Authority, decided
>> to create the code element [hyw] for Western Armenian. [2]
>> 
>> We initiated this process three years ago when we started the collaboration
>> with the Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation [3] in order to foster and improve
>> free content in Western Armenian. This resulted in "Western Armenian
>> project" where Wikimedia Armenia through different events and activities
>> started to disseminate and support the creation of Western Armenian content
>> with the help of local and diasporan Western Armenian community members.
>> 
>> From the launch of the "Western Armenian project" we were challenged with
>> the problem that Western Armenian has no ISO 639-3 language code which did
>> not allow the community to split Western Armenian content into a separate
>> language Wikipedia. This problem made lots of  trouble for us, as hy.wiki
>> often had two versions of the same page.
>> 
>> Wikimedia Armenia with Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation eventually decided to
>> apply for code split. [4] This was done mainly with the help of Michael
>> Everson. [5] Besides WM AM and Armenian Communities Department of Calouste
>> Gulbenkian foundation there were also other parties involved, such as the
>> department of Armenian Studies of the Institut National des Langues et
>> Civilisations Orientales, Paris and other academic institutions.
>> 
>> Today is a special day for Wikimedia Armenia and Western Armenian speaking
>> community as our proposal was accepted. Thanks all Wikimedians who
>> supported us in this work.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Davit Saroyan
>> Program Manager
>> Wikimedia Armenia
>> 
>> 
>> 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Armenian
>> 2.
>> http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/cr_files/PastComments/CR_
>> Comments_2017-023.pdf
>> 3. https://gulbenkian.pt/en/
>> 4. http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/cr_files/2017-023.pdf
>> 5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Everson
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Delphine Ménard
> Program Officer
> Wikimedia Foundation
> User:Delphine_(WMF) 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Alphos OGame]

Forgive my (usual ?) bluntness, but I don't think congratulations are in order 
for undertaking the governance review ;-)

As a member and unwilling observer, I can tell you it was dearly needed, be it 
by internal or external auditors, and mandated by the WMF.

However, as a long time member of the community and of Wikimedia France, I do 
salute the effort of publishing the results of the review, as the previous 
board of directors probably wouldn't have wanted to publish anything critical 
of their method of governance ; and the review covers both old and more recent 
times.
That indeed deserves credit, so thank you Nadine !

@ Cornelius : smart thinking on your part, collecting them in one place. I hope 
there won't be any more crisis requiring a governance review in one of our 
chapters, but in any case it will be interesting for all chapters to know what 
to avoid in the future, and where to look for it, so thank you as well.

Roger / Alphos


> Le 9 juil. 2018 à 13:44, Chris Keating  a écrit :
> 
> Congratulations to Wikimedia France for undertaking this review and
> publishing the results.
> 
> I believe all of the 3 governance reviews are important reading for
> anyone involved with the WMF or any of the affiliates, and all have
> important lessons for the movement. It's interesting to note that this
> is the first one that touches on the WMF-affiliate relationship in
> much detail.
> 
> Also - while so far governance reviews have only happened as a result
> of a crisis, this doesn't have to be the case! I would urge Wikimedia
> affiliates to take external advice on their governance, the
> suggestions offered by governance experts who know the laws, norms and
> cutlure in which you operate will be very helpful for you.
> 
> Chris
> (who was Chair of Wikimedia UK at the point we had a governance review...)
>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 10:43 PM Nadine Le Lirzin  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment Report
>> by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and we
>> want to share it with you.
>> 
>> The auditors did a great work, first in their rather good understanding of
>> our movement complexity, and then in the numerous improvement suggestions
>> they delivered.
>> 
>> The consultation of our members – to fully associate them to the rebuilding
>> – is still in progress. Main changes will be submitted to a vote at next
>> General Assembly, by the end of the year.
>> 
>> The document has been translated in English and is now available on
>> Commons[2].
>> 
>> May these suggestions be useful not only for Wikimédia France, but also for
>> any other chapter or affiliate that would be in need of governance advice
>> or ideas.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Nadine Le Lirzin
>> *Wikimedia France Board Secretary*
>> 
>> 
>> [1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-June/090413.html
>> [2]
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_France_-_Governance_Assessment_Report_-_2018.pdf
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikidata] Solve legal uncertainty of Wikidata

[Alphos OGame]

Hello,

Mathieu, not only are you forum-shopping here as Maarten pointed out, you
are also consecutively trying one "what if" after the other instead of
providing an actual formal case against the CC0 license currently in effect
on Wikidata.
So far each of your individual arguments has been debunked :
- incompatibly licensed database imports (Nemo_bis [1] and Denny [2][3]
replied to that concern on May 14th on Phabricator ; same applies to
CC-BY-SA on Wikipedia : we get rid of incompatible stuff all the time)
- provenance and traceability of data (Maarten Dammers replied to that
concern on this email thread on July 4th ; licenses have nothing to do with
either of those things : references are there for that, and edit history
can help too)
- conflation of licensing of an entire text and facts stated within it -
which is pretty much one of the main purposes of Wikidata, or am I mistaken
? - (Martijn Hoekstra replied to that concern on this email thread on July
4th ; facts aren't long blobs of complicated text that are works of the
mind, although it could be a tad more complex when it comes to large
compilations of facts - but the definition of "large" is nowhere properly
determined)
On May 25th, you mentionned on Phabricator "discussing face to face with a
professional lawyer specialized on free licenses" [4]. She was supposed to
forward you "more information later". Has she done that ? Barring anything
new from her or any other lawyer, I see no reason whatsoever to keep going
on with that discussion which, so far, seems to only be able to determine
the morals and ethos of sticking to CC0, and not the actual legality of it.

However, I'd like to point out as an aside that in the process of your - so
far it seems purely intellectual - exercice, you have pushed Karima out of
a mailing list, which culminated in you asking from Wikimedia France that
all messages from all their mailing lists be immediately and irrevocably
made public "for total and absolute transparency and openness" as I recall
it, for the measly sake of this very argument. Your request was thankfully
denied on the basis of, if anything, privacy protection of their members.
Her message on May 4th on Phabricator [5] doesn't leave much to the
imagination that her leaving the Wikimedia France Wikidata mailing list and
your actions are directly related.

I suggest you either provide a strong legal argument (which is more than
"this thing and that stuff could happen", I mean something with actual
legal babble, including law and case law, with help from an actual lawyer)
or drop the splintered stick you hit that long-since dead horse with. And
whichever you choose, if you could stop bullying people to get your point
across, that'd be swell.

Thank you.

Roger / Alphos

[1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728#4204583
[2] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728#4204771
[3] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728#4204779
[4] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728#4231434
[5] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728#4182444



2018-07-05 20:30 GMT+02:00 Yann Forget :

> Hi,
>
> 2018-07-04 12:50 GMT+02:00 Maarten Dammers :
>
> > Hi Mathieu,
> >
>
>
> > So I see you started forum shopping (trying to get the Wikimedia-l people
> > in) and making contentious trying to be funny remarks. That's usually a
> > good indication a thread is going nowhere.
> >
> > No, Wikidata is not going to change the CC0. You seem to be the only
> > person wanting that and trying to discredit Wikidata will not help you in
> > your crusade. I suggest the people who are still interested in this to go
> > to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728 and make useful comments
> > over there.
>
>
> I concur totally with analysis.
>
> Regards,
>
> Yann Forget
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] On traceability and reliability of data we publish [was Re: [Wikidata] Solve legal uncertainty of Wikidata]

[Alphos OGame]

Hello,

You seem to be mistaken.

Traceability of information does not pertain with who imported said
information on Wikidata. Could be an unregistered user, could be a bot,
could be a Wikimedian in residence or even the Pope himself, it doesn't
make a difference in the world.
What matters in traceability of a piece of data is *where* it comes from,
and that piece of metadata is achieved through referencing.
That does not belong in licencing.
CC-BY would mean reusers would have to mention individual users (including
vandals, sigh) who took part in compiling datasets on Wikidata, which you
seem to be oblivious to. CC-BY does not help track where a work comes from,
only who took part in making it. Datasets reusers don't need that kind of
information when all they want is a list of countries of which Heads of
State have spouses whose given name starts with a D [1].

When it comes to reliability, there again, who imported it is not
particularly of importance, keeping in mind that Wikidata is not the most
user-friendly wiki in the Wikimedia Ecosystem, as it is not the simplest to
grasp for human minds, and as such not the most frequently vandalized
(three huzzahs for small favors !).
What matters in reliability of a piece of data stems from the *source* of a
particular source of information, which, once again, is indicated by a
reference, and the credit you give to said source.
That again does not belong in licencing.
CC-BY would mean reusers would know that a crapton of people they have no
idea even exist took part in compiling a dataset they require (instead of
just the dataset and references pertaining to it), which again you seem to
be oblivious to. It doesn't protect reusers against vandalism, it does
however make their dataset a whole lot larger by adding the names of a
whole lot of people they don't know or care about.

It really doesn't matter how you put it, the arguments you've put forward
so far simply don't make any kind of sense against CC0 or for CC-BY.

If however you do insist on knowing which user added a particular piece of
data (or reference/metadata, for that matter) to an item, Wikidata keeps an
edit history just in case. It is not necessary for the licence currently in
effect on Wikidata (which, need I remind you, is still CC0), but it is
there nonetheless should you need it.

Now, do we need to keep this needlessly long and tedious thread alive under
another name or could we please drop it and carry on with our lives.

Roger / Alphos

[1] Maybe for a prophecy or something ? Well, if anyone need it, it's
hopelessly simple, so here goes : https://tinyurl.com/yb6dh3r6



2018-07-07 17:59 GMT+02:00 mathieu lovato stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org>:

> Hi Andra,
>
> I agree this is misconception that a copyright license make any direct
> change to data reliability. But attribution requirement does somewhat
> indirectly have an impact on it, as it legally enforce traceability. That
> is I strongly disagree with the following assertion: "a license that
> requires BY sucks so hard for data [because] attribution requirements grow
> very quickly". To my mind it is equivalent to say that we will throw away
> traceability because it is subjectively judged too large a burden, without
> providing any start of evidence that it indeed can't be managed, at least
> with Wikimedia current ressources.
>
> Now, I don't say traceability is the sole factor one should take into
> account in data reliability, but certainly it is one of them. Maybe we
> should first come with clear criteria to put in a equation that enable to
> calculate reliability of information. Since it's in the core goals of the
> Wikimedia strategy, it would certainly worth the effort to establish clear
> metrics about reliability of information the movement is spreading.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Le 04/07/2018 à 13:00, Andra Waagmeester a écrit :
>
>> I agree with Maarten and to add to that. It is a huge misconception that
>> CC0  makes data unreliable. It is only a legal statement about copyright,
>> nothing more, nothing less. Statements without proper references and
>> qualifiers make data unreliable, but Wikidata has a decent mechanism to
>> capture that needed provenance.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 12:50 PM, Maarten Dammers > > wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mathieu,
>>
>> On 04-07-18 11:07, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Le 19/05/2018 à 03:35, Denny Vrandečić a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Regarding attribution, commonly it is assumed that you
>> have to respect it transitively. That is one of the
>> reasons a license that requires BY sucks so hard for data:
>> unlike with text, the attribution requirements grow very
>> quickly. It is the same as with modified images and
>> collages: it is not sufficient to attribute the last
>> author, but all contributors have to be attributed.
>>
>> If we want our 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] YouTube shooting and risk assessment

[Alphos OGame]

I heartily agree : build that firewall, and let Cisco pay for it !
Wait, what were you suggesting in your incipit ? Oh, right, "a way that's
rational, avoiding to create unnecessary panic of course".
I'd rather not ask of people organizing conventions (which is already
time-consuming by itself) that they *solve terrorism in their town*, which
is what the police are probably more suited for, if you don't mind ; as a
matter of fact, it is not one of their duties as convention holders, plain
and simple, and neither are they doctors, police officers, judges, jesters,
masseuses, nannies, yoga instructors, cooks, indentured servants, etc
(except of course if they are, which may happen).

So let's please not overreact, and stick to the current discussion instead
of having the next WikiConvention in a flying fortress with armed guards,
sniffing dogs, and metal detectors at every door…

Roger / Alphos



2018-04-05 18:40 GMT+02:00 Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>:

> I remember we discussed 2 or 3 years about this scenario with some
> wikimedians off wiki. I strongly support to discuss at least once openly
> about that. In a way that it's rational, avoiding to create unnecessary
> panic... of course.
>
>
> Despite the claimed neutrality of the communities, reality always bites.
> Now, a terrorist can imagine that we will not put a black banner if someone
> kill a lot of people somewhere... but if same amount of wikimedians are
> killed at a international rally the probability that a block ribbon, an
> editnotice with a statement appear on many language edition is higher. it's
> an attack at the community like it is a proposal of a law somewhere, and we
> naturally react stronger.
>
>
> It would be a bigger impact, if you think about it. You can get the
> attention of billions of people every time they connect to the 5th or 6th
> largest website in the world. Cynically speaking, if you also consider the
> facts that it's about free knowledge and volunteers, than a mass murder at
> at a wikimedian event might be more "effective" than at a discotheque or
> the seat of a multinational conglomerate.
>
>
> If i remember correctly. in the months before a certain wiki-event, many
> people linked to radical activities were arrested in the area, in the same
> country. So, when you organize an event, it's not just about safety but
> also security. Even if it is not nice to think about it, and of course you
> try to do it mostly in private, you should clearly write down at least at a
> certain point that you are preparing to all scenario, contacting the police
> and so on. it should be a paragraph in a candidature for an event, IMHO.
> but it should be done.
>
> A.M.
>
> Il Giovedì 5 Aprile 2018 18:09, Vi to  ha
> scritto:
>
>
>  I read/receive related craps
>  Vituzzu=prev=831949995>
> on
> a daily basis but it's hard to tell an idiot from a psychopath, so it may
> become a risk for WMF offices.
>
> Vito
>
> 2018-04-05 17:33 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett :
>
> > I'm sure most of you will be aware of the unfortunate events at
> > YouTube's HQ a couple fo days ago:
> >
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube_headquarters_shooting
> >
> > Without giving away anything that might reveal vulnerabilities, does
> > the WMF have contingency plans for such an incident? What about at
> > community events in the US, and elsewhere?
> >
> > --
> > Andy Mabbett
> > @pigsonthewing
> > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] convert from BitCoin to FoldingCoin and other proofs of useful work

[Alphos OGame]

Hey,

For once, I'll make this one short : I agree, let's stay away from widely
fluctuating, purely fiduciary, resources-hogging (and no, FLDC does *not*
rely on "clean electricity", it's still an energy hog like the lot of
them), crypto-currencies.
And while we're at it, pretty please, let's also stay away from this
long-dead thread. 6 months is dead enough, I don't think we need to go
through that again.

Thanks.

Roger / Alphos


Le jeu. 1 nov. 2018 à 19:33, Gerard Meijssen  a
écrit :

> Hoi,
> Bitcoin and its ilk rely on an overabundance of energy. In this day and age
> the speculation of these "currencies" is irresponsible. The best attack on
> this pyramide game is to stay away from it.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 at 10:38, Robert Rohde  wrote:
>
> > > What is a 51% attack?
> >
> > A 51% attack is when a single malicious entity controls >51% of the
> > computing power being used to validate the blockchain of a particular
> > digital currency.  Blockchain-based digital currencies rely on a
> consensus
> > of computing participants acting in good faith to verify transactions and
> > coin ownership.  However, if a single entity controls a majority of the
> > compute power, then it is possible for them to maliciously validate bad
> > transactions to steal, double spend, and otherwise commit fraud using the
> > currency.
> >
> > Smaller digital currencies, with fewer participants acting to maintain
> > their blockchain, are generally more vulnerable to this kind of attack.
> A
> > bad actor can rent a large block of computing power and then use it to
> > attack a small blockchain.   Such attacks have been becoming more common,
> > though the largest coins (e.g. BTC) are still resistant due to the size
> of
> > their community.
> >
> https://www.coindesk.com/blockchains-feared-51-attack-now-becoming-regular/
> >
> > I don't know anything about FoldingCoin and whether it is more or less
> > vulnerable to this kind of fraud than other cryptocurrencies.
> >
> > However, the 51% attack may just be the death of many smaller alt-coins,
> > unless an effective countermeasure can be developed.
> >
> > -Robert Rohde
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 8:23 AM James Salsman  wrote:
> >
> > > Geni, it's the "Day of the Dead" now so I want to attempt to resurrect
> > > this thread.
> > >
> > > Is FoldingCoin still vulnerable to a 51% attack? What is a 51% attack?
> > >
> > > Do you think it is reasonable for the Foundation to convert bitcoin to
> > > FoldingCoin as part of its program to source clean electricity?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 7:21 AM James Salsman 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Cryptocurrency. If your first thought isn't "how could a scammer
> > > > > exploit this" you are doing it wrong.
> > > >
> > > > I've thought about that for several hours now, and I'm sure scammers
> > > > far prefer bitcoin. Folding@Home's lab director is a partner
> > > > Andreessen Horowitz, so he has certainly had no lack of resources to
> > > > defend against the possibility, and I am persuaded that the Indiana
> > > > nonprofit behind FLDC is sincere and acting in good faith at present.
> > > > If the Foundation is hesitant, they might sponsor an audit of either
> > > > or both, but the Folding@Home project is so established that its
> > > > article is featured on enwiki.
> > > >
> > > > I have no financial interest in any cryptocurrency, and I never have,
> > > > and I don't have a familial interest with anyone who I am aware has
> > > > any either.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Jim
> > >
> > > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Banning real identities

[Alphos OGame]

I was doxxed by someone in the movement a few years ago, and I cannot stress 
this enough : WE MUST NOT DOXX PEOPLE.
It doesn't matter how good our intentions are.
It doesn't matter how bad these people are.
We as a community choose to block, ban, lock, whether or not globally, the 
accounts of people we deem unable to contribute.
We must not disclose unilaterally after the fact the identity of a contributor. 
And not only because we may well have no clue about it. It may get them jailed 
for the wrong reasons. It may get them harmed for their genuine contributions.
That MUST NOT (rfc2119 [1]) be how we handle things.
Once again, I cannot stress this enough.

Do not do this. This is a bad idea on so many levels. Pretty much all of them, 
really.

Alphos

[1] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt

Le 2 juil. 2019 à 08:17, Thomas Townsend  a écrit :

>> Why do you think this is important and what real purpose do you think this
>> will serve?
> 
> A good question.  The stated object of global bans is "to help assure
> the safety of users of the Wikimedia projects and/or assist in
> preventing prohibited behavior that hinders dialogue, project
> development and expansion".  Identifying those persons banned as fully
> as possible helps to achieve that assurance and protect the community.
> 
> The Turnip.
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Banning real identities

[Alphos OGame]

Well, considering my life was already kind of in shambles beforehand, there
wasn't much more to be done, and I didn't risk much, but still, I valued my
privacy then - and still do.

I live in France with french citizenship, where I enjoy a rather
comfortable freedom of expression, but I'm also thinking of contributors in
less free countries who, despite being potentially despicable by
potentially deserving global bans, are also potentially being targets from
local authorities or groups of other sorts should their real identities be
ever divulged, not because of their global bans or the reasons thereof, but
because of their legitimate contributions to free culture and knowledge
(you know, what we *usually* do on the Wikimedia projects, other than
bicker on these mailing lists about whether or not the Wikimedia Foundation
should have done things differently).

The least information we give publicly about (current and former) members
of the community, the better. No matter whether we like them or not, even
if we absolutely despise them, even if they "deserve it" : they don't.
Even if they were one of my harassers, even if they lived in a free
country, I'd be sternly, strongly, and strictly against it.

Alphos

Le ven. 5 juil. 2019 à 13:52, Vi to  a écrit :

> Putting it simple WMF/functionaries/the community itself should take the
> less invasive actions needed to protect themselves.
>
> A public list of "persona non grata" for events is needed for sure, but I
> don't see any practical need to have it publicly shared.
>
> Vito
>
> Il giorno ven 5 lug 2019 alle ore 13:41 Andy Mabbett <
> a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> ha scritto:
>
> > > Den fre. 5. jul. 2019 kl. 11.53 skrev Thomas Townsend <
> > homesec1...@gmail.com
> >
> > > > You don;t explain why being "doxxed" was a bad thing for you, or
> > > > indeed what the downside is for anyone,  You simply assert that it is
> > > > a Bad Thing and must not happen.  Would you like to give your reasons
> > > > for those assertions?
> >
> > I lost my wallet to a pickpocket last week. Do I now need to give
> > reasons why this was a bad thing?
> >
> > Quite apart from the fact that you ignore the text "It may get them
> > jailed for the wrong reasons. It may get them harmed for their genuine
> > contributions."
> >
> > On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 at 12:25, Thyge  wrote:
> > >
> > > - and please explain the meaning of 'doxxed" as well. Is that US slang?
> >
> > If only there was some sort of free online encyclopedia, where such
> > things could be looked up:
> >
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxing
> >
> > --
> > Andy Mabbett
> > @pigsonthewing
> > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Covid-19] Postponing Wikimania Bangkok until 2021

[Alphos OGame]

Hello all,

As sad at it is, it's probably for the best - I'd hate for people to get sick 
in a time of joy and celebration, best be on the safe side.
And it's probably better to take the decision sooner rather than later. It lets 
people know in advance, cancel plans far ahead, without rush.
I wasn't planning on coming - long trips aren't really compatible with my 
health - but I really feel sorry for all those who were, and especially sorry 
for all those who carefully and thoughtfully planned the whole event.

Looking forward to seeing Wikimania 2021 in Bangkok being a success !

In the mean time, don't despair, and all of you take care of yourselves and 
your loved ones.

Roger / Alphos
Board member
Wikimédia France


> Le 18 mars 2020 à 21:57, Katherine Maher  a écrit :
> 
> Dear everyone,
> 
> As a part of the Wikimedia movement’s ongoing response to the COVID-19
> pandemic, we are postponing Wikimania Bangkok 2020. This decision was made
> with the full support of the ESEAP host team and Wikimania Committee.
> Together, we will hold Wikimania in Bangkok in 2021.
> 
> We are filled with sadness to not see you all in Bangkok in August.
> However, we are confident that this is the best possible decision for the
> well-being of our global community and public health overall. This decision
> was proposed by the ESEAP organizers in line with their countries’ response
> to the COVID-19 pandemic and is in line with recommendations from the World
> Health Organization (WHO).
> 
> You are certain to have many questions. We hope to answer some of your
> questions below. We will continue to answer questions on the Wikimania
> Meta-Wiki page and on the Wikimania Telegram group chat (more information
> below).
> 
> 
> *== What does “postponing” Wikimania mean? ==*
> We will not host an in-person Wikimania in 2020. We are rescheduling
> Wikimania Bangkok until 2021. The ESEAP organizing team[2] will continue
> their work as a regional collaborative between affiliates in the East,
> South East, and Pacific regions to host us in Thailand next year.
> 
> The hotel and venue[3] in Bangkok will remain the same. We have not yet
> finalized dates for 2021. We will work with the ESEAP team and Wikimania
> Steering Committee to confirm new dates. We will let you know these dates
> by the end of 2020.
> 
> The good news is that Wikimania 2021 will coincide with Wikipedia’s 20th
> birthday year. We expect this to be a truly memorable Wikimania -- an
> opportunity to celebrate reconnection after a year apart, along with the
> remarkable accomplishment of two decades of free knowledge.
> 
> *== Will there be an alternative to the in-person event? ==*
> 
> There are no plans by the 2020 Wikimania hosts to organize a virtual,
> online event. Hosting Wikimania is a lot of work. The ESEAP team is
> committed to hosting the best possible in-person event in Bangkok in 2021.
> Therefore, they will not have the capacity to organize a virtual Wikimania
> this year.
> 
> However, the Wikimania committee, the ESEAP host team, and the Wikimedia
> Foundation all recognize that other members of the community may be
> interested in organizing a remote, global Wikimedia event for 2020.
> Although the Wikimedia Foundation does not have the capacity at this time
> to lead the organizing of a virtual online conference, we recognize others
> may have the desire to do so.
> 
> We welcome discussion about online events. Interested parties are welcome
> to contact the Wikimania Steering Committee and Wikimania Foundation staff
> for advice on the Wikimania Meta-Wiki page[1].
> 
> We are also considering proposals for improving the capacity of communities
> to organize local virtual convenings, and for how we can support
> communities in organizing impromptu local and regional Wikimedia events
> once the pandemic passes. As the situation has been changing rapidly we are
> still working on specifics and will share more information in the coming
> weeks.
> 
> *== What does this mean for scholarship applications? ==*
> 
> We are working on a plan for how to process Wikimania 2020 scholarship
> applications.[4] We will share more information in the coming weeks.
> 
> *== How was this decision made? ==*
> 
> This recommendation was made by the ESEAP organizers based on what we know
> about the current COVID-19 global health pandemic and current WHO
> guidelines. The decision was made together with the ESEAP team in
> consultation with the Wikimania Steering Committee and Wikimedia
> Foundation. Together we are fully and unanimously aligned around this
> decision.
> 
> Although we are genuinely sad to not have the opportunity to see you all
> this year, we also are fully supportive of this decision in all of our best
> interests. It allows our ESEAP community hosts to focus on the immediate
> needs of their families, local Wikimedia communities, and local communities
> as a whole. It is in line with global public health guidance and aligns the
> Wikimedia 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review

[Alphos OGame]

Hello everyone,

What I want to read : comments on the UCoC.
What I don't want to read : a barrage of *insert adjective, whether laudative 
or criticizing* reply after reply after reply after reply on the comments of 
one or more of the subscribers of this list.

I understand the initial comments shocked some of you, and some may want to 
defend freedom of expression and  others yet criticize actions past or current 
by the Foundation, but still, I'd rather we'd compartmentalize and, instead of 
bickering about something the list mods have already given what seems to be a 
rather decent decision, talk about the Universal Code of Conduct, as I still 
haven't wrapped my head around it.

Please, no more back and forth, no more inanity, no more four mails an hour.
Thank you…

Roger / Alphos


> Le 11 sept. 2020 à 12:22, Quim Gil  a écrit :
> 
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 9:31 AM Benjamin Ikuta 
> wrote:
> 
>> Please, enlighten me.
> 
> Here is an alternative suggestion. Check the UCoC draft and see whether you
> see room for improvement or disagree with anything specific in it. This is
> a productive way to compare your personal understanding of civility against
> the understanding of civility the UCoC offers for the entire movement. If
> you have ideas to improve the draft, share them, if possible on the Meta
> page where the main discussion is happening.
> 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Draft_review
> 
> 
>>> On Sep 10, 2020, at 11:39 PM, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>>> Am Fr., 11. Sept. 2020 um 08:07 Uhr schrieb Benjamin Ikuta
>>> :
 Is there some context that makes this much worse than it seems, or do I
>> have a deeply flawed understanding of civility?
>>> Well, are you open to consider the possibility that the latter might
>>> theoretically be the case, at least partially?
>>> Kind regards
>>> Ziko
> 
> 
> -- 
> Quim Gil (he/him)
> Senior Manager of Community Relations @ Wikimedia Foundation
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Qgil-WMF
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Elena Sanz passed away last night

[Alphos OGame]

Hello,

We learned with great sadness of the sudden passing of Elena Sanz yesterday.
We may not all have met her, but we know how much she meant to the movement, 
and we know how much the movement meant to her.
Please pass our sincerest condolences to her loved ones.

For the Board of Wikimédia France
Roger Gotlib / Alphos


> Le 6 juil. 2020 à 20:19, Robert Myers  a écrit 
> :
> 
> I’m in shock! Have meet her at the Wikimedia Conference in Berlin and at 
> Wikimania. She was a fantastic person but also very passionate. 
> 
> The community has lost a great role model. My condolences to her family, 
> colleagues and friends. 
> 
> --
> Robert Myers
> Secretary - Wikimedia Australia
> M: +61 400 670 288
> robert.my...@wikimedia.org.au
> http://www.wikimedia.org.au
> 
>> On 7 Jul 2020, at 1:56 am, Santiago Navarro  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello. I have bad news, the kind of news we never want to have. Our friend 
>> and colleage Elena Sanz (user ElsaBornFree) passed away last night.
>> 
>> Elena Sanz was a strong, intelligent and brilliant woman. She joined 
>> Wikimedia movement in 2014 and after two years she because secretary of 
>> Wikimedia España, possition she had till now.
>> 
>> Many of you met her in many conferences and events, such as Wikimedia 
>> Conferences, Wikimanias or Iberoconfs, but also meeting for advocacy in the 
>> EU, the Wikipedia+education conference in Donostia, next to her home town. A 
>> very active person, this has been a huge shock for all of us.
>> 
>> If you want to leave your condolences, you can write in a page created for 
>> that on Spanish Wikipedia.[1] We wrote also a blog post dedicated to her 
>> memory.[2]
>> 
>> As a president of Wikimedia España and a friend of her, I want to express 
>> our condolences on behalf of Wikimedia España to his family and friends. We 
>> will always remember her.
>> 
>> [1] 
>> https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedistas_fallecidos/ElsaBornFree
>> [2] https://www.wikimedia.es/2020/07/06/hasta-siempre-elena/
>> 
>> -- 
>> Santiago Navarro Sanz
>> Presidente
>> Wikimedia España
>> www.wikimedia.es
>> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Test Mailman3 in production

[Alphos OGame]

Hello Amir, hello all,

Fantastic news !

Quick side question : whatever will happen to the passwords that we kept on 
post-it notes sticked to our monitors for lack of frequent use or good enough 
cognitive skills ?
Joke aside, will there be a site-wide password purge once v3 is deployed, or 
shall we keep on using our old passwords, with the currently plaintext 
passwords stored in files simply hashed and stored in the new database ?

Whatever the case, fantastic news :-)

Roger / Alphos


> Le 25 mars 2021 à 08:58, Amir Sarabadani  a écrit :
> 
> Hello,
> 
> tl;dr: https://lists-next.wikimedia.org  
> is running mailman3. Please help us test the software before we upgrade the 
> real mailing list server.
> 
> Kunal and I have been working on deploying the new mailman (version 3) to 
> replace mailman2 serving https://lists.wikimedia.org 
>  and powering all of our mailing lists.
> 
> Mailman2 is a dinosaur that should have gone extinct years ago. Pretty old 
> user interface (especially for admins and moderators), storing passwords in 
> plain text, lack of any database (everything is file on disk), pretty old 
> code, lack of ability to search in archives or send email from web interface, 
> running on EOL python (python2), encoding issues with non-Latin languages, 
> hard to redact archives, and the list goes on and on.
> 
> The new version has been developed/puppetized/tested in the Cloud and is now 
> ready for proper testing! Give it a try: https://lists-next.wikimedia.org 
> . We have created some mailing lists you 
> can join and can test. If you want to test the experience as a list 
> administrator/moderator, we can give those permissions out as well.
> 
> WARNING: All data on the lists-next server will be deleted after the test 
> period is over.
> 
> We will also need help updating documentation on wikis and elsewhere.
> 
> If you find any bugs/issues (yay!), please file a ticket in the 
> “Wikimedia-Mailing-lists” Phabricator project and we’ll check it out.
> 
> In the coming days/weeks will also import some public mailing lists from the 
> old version to the new version to check archive size, search index size, and 
> other aspects. There are other TODOs left as well like monitoring, logging, 
> anti-abuse, etc.
> 
> Slowly and after testing (hopefully soon), we expect to deploy this on 
> lists.wikimedia.org  and mailing lists one by 
> one or in batches can be upgraded to the 21st century.
> 
> The overall task tracking this project is T52864 
>  and a big thank you people who are 
> helping this move forward.
> 
> Regards,
> Kunal and Amir
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Test Mailman3 in production

[Alphos OGame]

Now *that* is fantastic news indeed. I'll be sure to read up on that.
The dinosaur's dead, long live the new, uh, dinosaur ! ;-)

Roger / Alphos


> Le 25 mars 2021 à 17:39, Amir Sarabadani  a écrit :
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 12:07 PM Alphos OGame  <mailto:alphos.og...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hello Amir, hello all,
> 
> Fantastic news !
> 
> Quick side question : whatever will happen to the passwords that we kept on 
> post-it notes sticked to our monitors for lack of frequent use or good enough 
> cognitive skills ?
> Joke aside, will there be a site-wide password purge once v3 is deployed, or 
> shall we keep on using our old passwords, with the currently plaintext 
> passwords stored in files simply hashed and stored in the new database ?
> 
> You shouldn't reuse those passwords from the old mailman as they are stored 
> in plain text but the good thing (and a rather important thing) about 
> mailman3 is that you can make a central account for all mailing lists and 
> then use that instead. So there won't be a need to store twenty different 
> passwords for each mailing list you are a member of (or admin/moderator). 
> Hope just one more password would be okay ;)
> 
> Best
> 
> Whatever the case, fantastic news :-)
> 
> Roger / Alphos
> 
> 
>> Le 25 mars 2021 à 08:58, Amir Sarabadani > <mailto:ladsgr...@gmail.com>> a écrit :
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> tl;dr: https://lists-next.wikimedia.org <https://lists-next.wikimedia.org/> 
>> is running mailman3. Please help us test the software before we upgrade the 
>> real mailing list server.
>> 
>> Kunal and I have been working on deploying the new mailman (version 3) to 
>> replace mailman2 serving https://lists.wikimedia.org 
>> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/> and powering all of our mailing lists.
>> 
>> Mailman2 is a dinosaur that should have gone extinct years ago. Pretty old 
>> user interface (especially for admins and moderators), storing passwords in 
>> plain text, lack of any database (everything is file on disk), pretty old 
>> code, lack of ability to search in archives or send email from web 
>> interface, running on EOL python (python2), encoding issues with non-Latin 
>> languages, hard to redact archives, and the list goes on and on.
>> 
>> The new version has been developed/puppetized/tested in the Cloud and is now 
>> ready for proper testing! Give it a try: https://lists-next.wikimedia.org 
>> <https://lists-next.wikimedia.org/>. We have created some mailing lists you 
>> can join and can test. If you want to test the experience as a list 
>> administrator/moderator, we can give those permissions out as well.
>> 
>> WARNING: All data on the lists-next server will be deleted after the test 
>> period is over.
>> 
>> We will also need help updating documentation on wikis and elsewhere.
>> 
>> If you find any bugs/issues (yay!), please file a ticket in the 
>> “Wikimedia-Mailing-lists” Phabricator project and we’ll check it out.
>> 
>> In the coming days/weeks will also import some public mailing lists from the 
>> old version to the new version to check archive size, search index size, and 
>> other aspects. There are other TODOs left as well like monitoring, logging, 
>> anti-abuse, etc.
>> 
>> Slowly and after testing (hopefully soon), we expect to deploy this on 
>> lists.wikimedia.org <http://lists.wikimedia.org/> and mailing lists one by 
>> one or in batches can be upgraded to the 21st century.
>> 
>> The overall task tracking this project is T52864 
>> <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T52864> and a big thank you people who 
>> are helping this move forward.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Kunal and Amir
>> 
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Regarding a series of serious office actions / 有关于一系列的办事处行动

[Alphos OGame]

Hello Maggie, hello all,

If you can communicate on the subject, when was your team first made aware of 
the situation ? Trying to figure out how long this has lasted.
And were affected users (by which I mean users who had their emails and 
passwords reset) ultimately able to recover their accounts ? Or will they be ?

Thank you for letting us know of the issue.

Roger / Alphos


> Le 14 sept. 2021 à 10:48, William Chan  a écrit :
> 
> Hi Andres,
> 
> I am not Maggie (definitely here) but as far as I know, some members from the 
> zhwp are also affected. If I am correct, it is their email being removed and 
> password got reset.
> 
> William
> 
> 
> On Tue, 14 Sept 2021 at 16:45, Andreas Kolbe  > wrote:
> Hi Maggie,
> 
> Thanks for your post; I have two questions.
> 
> 1. What is the status of Mardetanha, the Iranian steward and past (even very 
> recent) author of Wikimedia blog posts (which link his real name to his user 
> name)?[1][2]
> 
> Judging by https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=21964430 
>  where he says, using 
> his alt account,
> 
> Yes, we are all locked until "voluntarily" resign to get back our account 
> back [[User:Mard|Mard]] ([[User talk:Mard|talk]]) 12:06, 1 September 2021 
> (UTC)
> 
> his account must be locked. But I can't find any recent actions related to 
> his account in the public logs on Meta.[3] What am I missing?
> 
> 2. Speaking of project capture, the Kazakh Wikipedia was captured by state 
> actors almost a decade ago (with the Foundation's blessing at the time, and 
> public regrets later[4]). 
> 
> Are there any functionaries in Kazakhstan that will be impacted by these 
> changes?
> 
> Andreas
> 
> [1] https://diff.wikimedia.org/author/mohsen-salek/ 
> 
> [2] 
> https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/persian-wikipedia-independent-source-or-tool-iranian-state/
>  
> 
> [3] 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type===User%3AMardetanha==%5B%5D=newusers
>  
> 
> [4] 
> https://eurasianet.org/wikipedia-founder-distances-himself-from-kazakhstan-pr-machine
>  
> 
> 
> On Monday, September 13, 2021, Maggie Dennis  > wrote:
> Hi, again.
> 
> I just realized I failed to answer one of the questions. I'm sorry; it's 
> rather late in my day, and I didn't mean to overlook it. In addition to what 
> was noted earlier, I believe it was 12 other users who were contacted and 
> asked to adjust their behavior to work within community policies, especially 
> regarding "canvassing" and good faith collaboration with other users. 
> 
> Best,
> Maggie
> 
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 6:21 PM Maggie Dennis  > wrote:
> Hello, all.
> 
> First, our apologies for the translation. We had hoped to provide this 
> service to make it easier for our Chinese language communities, but clearly 
> it didn't work out as we had hoped. I'm enormously grateful to say that a 
> Chinese translation is now available on Meta: 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Office_actions/September_2021_statement/zh 
>  
> <3 We are actively seeking to increase our capacity in Chinese and several 
> other languages, and I hope some people will apply! 
> https://boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/3374682?gh_src=b62d5dae1us 
> 
> 
> With respect to the NDA policy change, this was indeed very obliquely 
> addressed on September 1st here 
> ,[1]
>  at which point we felt the need to be very oblique in our response because 
> we were still actively attempting to communicate with all users impacted. We 
> knew, of course, that experienced Wikimedians would be able to connect the 
> dots but were hoping to avoid attracting external attention by bad actors 
> that might put some of these people in danger. Not being a lawyer, I'm still 
> a little nervous about saying the wrong thing (my teams were more involved in 
> implementing than directing that policy change), but it's probably obvious to 
> everyone by now that you have correctly named the immediate jurisdictions of 
> concern.
> 
> I do want to say, though, that the policy was written to address a challenge 
> which is likely to be ongoing: we are not just in danger of infiltration, but 
> of attack through the extortion or potentially persecution of publicly 
> identifiable people with access to 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Board statement endorsing community voting on the enforcement guidelines for Universal code of Conduct (UCoC)

[Alphos OGame]

I'd like to point out that staff members are part of the movement whether or 
not they initially came from the community ; that, should the UCoC be put in 
place, they will be subjected to it like everybody else ; and, perhaps more 
importantly, they are subject to other people's conduct as well.

Maybe this UCoC has implications for other people than for those who don't like 
it, its wording, or its implementation. Maybe, just maybe, these people can 
choose for themselves, without there being a puppeteering archvillain 
controlling them, because they are, just, you know, *people*. Maybe, really, 
just maybe, and I'm going out on a limb here, the Wikimedia Foundation isn't a 
puppeteering archvillain.

In simpler terms, not everything they do might be great, that doesn't mean 
everything they do has to be bad.

Roger / Alphos


> Le 30 janv. 2022 à 00:29, Risker  a écrit :
> 
> 
> Andreas - 
> 
> Wikimedia staff are as much a part of the community as everyone else is; 
> hundreds of them come from community roots, and the Wikimedia community 
> remains the single largest recruitment pool for roles within the WMF.  A 
> non-negligible percentage of WMF staff devote a very significant portion of 
> their non-working hours to volunteer work on our projects.  
> 
> If you want to look at historic participation in elections, staff of the WMF 
> and other affiliates have an exceptionally low participation rate.  It's 
> unclear why you'd think that would change - even when they have had an 
> opportunity to influence Board of Trustees elections (which actually do 
> affect them far more than the average community member), they haven't taken 
> advantage of that.  I'm a little concerned that you think Wikimedia staff are 
> so craven and ill-informed that they could be pressured to vote in that way. 
> Since it will no doubt be a secret ballot, there is no way for any employer 
> to control the outcome of this election; all they'd know is whether or not an 
> employee voted, not *how* they voted.  And since any individual can only vote 
> once, an employee could simply use their volunteer account, which is usually 
> much easier than having their staff name whitelisted. Frankly, there are a 
> dozen projects that have a far greater potential opportunity to control the 
> outcome. 
> 
> Whatever one may believe about the draft UCoC, it is largely developed from 
> existing behavioural norms on several of our large projects; thus, most of it 
> is a summary of what volunteers on various projects have been doing, in some 
> cases for almost two decades.  It also reflects the experiences of the codes 
> of conduct that have been applied to the volunteer developer area for several 
> years, as well as the codes of conduct applied to most in-person events 
> hosted by WMF and Wikimedia affiliates for many years.  
> 
> I'm not particularly worried that someone will mess up the SecurePoll, or 
> that it will permit decoding to the point of linking individuals to specific 
> votes.  Having said that, it would be realistic to have the key to the 
> election retained by someone outside of the direct Wikimedia community (e.g., 
> someone from EFF) who can be available to decode the results once the 
> standard checks are done.  
> 
> Risker/Anne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 at 16:17, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
>> Shani,
>> 
>> The prospect of potentially several hundred Wikimedia employees/contractors 
>> taking part in this vote is somewhat disturbing, especially in combination 
>> with a 50% threshold. 
>> 
>> Few decisions in the history of Wikipedia and Wikimedia have attracted 
>> participation from 1,000 or more volunteers. With a head start of 800 or 
>> more WMF and affiliate employees voting, who could be directed to vote as a 
>> block by their management, you would theoretically be able to push through 
>> anything, even if up to 90% of volunteers object ... (I don't think the 
>> UCoC, given its history, is much more popular than the rebranding was) ... 
>> and then declare it the result of a democratic process. 
>> 
>> Even if staff are not directed by management to participate, and are not 
>> directed to vote one way or another, I do not see how they (or the 
>> community, for that matter) can trust that this is a free and secret ballot 
>> for them, unless the process is administered outside the WMF.
>> 
>> Could you say something about this?
>> 
>> Best,
>> Andreas
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