Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
I've worked extensively with dispute resolution on English Wikipedia (I have conducted surveys and so on). If you have specific trends I would welcome seeing them (isolated cases where one side is unhappy with the result is not necessarily a sign the process is flawed, so I am more interested in overall trends but would welcome your opinion.) Steve Zhang Sent from my iPad On 05/09/2013, at 10:59 PM, Lars Gardenius wrote: > Sorry, but I have seen several instances where it certainly doesn't work. Not > in a way you would expect in a normal society anyhow. > > Regards, > Lars Gardenius > > > Von: "cro0...@gmail.com" > An: Lars Gardenius ; Wikimedia Mailing List > > CC: "fredb...@fairpoint.net" ; Wikimedia Mailing List > > Gesendet: 14:22 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013 > Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself > > I wouldn't say dispute resolution has never worked, nor does it not work now. > It could use improvement, but the same could be said about everything (and > like most things, shortages of volunteers make things harder) > > Steve Zhang > Sent from my iPad > > On 05/09/2013, at 6:18 PM, Lars Gardenius wrote: > > > No I don't think it is being addressed. Not in a serious way. > > > > That "Wikipedia:Dispute resolution" mirrors a very naive approach in a > > worldwide organization. It has never worked before and it doesn't work now. > > > > To imagine that groups of people will not try and manoeuvre out persons > > that they don't like is very naive. > > That has not happened before in the history of mankind and the Wikis are no > > exception. > > > > Today noone is accountable for what they do to other Wiki-contributors, > > they are not even identifiable since they hide behind nome de guerres. > > Stewards have no authority to protect users from abuses and the same goes > > for the Ombudsman. (see also Rui Correia's email) > > > > So if the Wikis want to be a safe place for children and old folks alike, > > and that everybody shall be able to contribute on equal conditions, a more > > realistic organization to protect the users must be put in place. > > > > > > Regards > > Lars Gardenius > > > > > > > > Von: Fred Bauder > > An: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Gesendet: 1:16 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013 > > Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself > > > > > > It is addressed but by a rather complicated and demanding process. See > > Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Not really workable for new users who bump > > up against well-established users who have bad habits, or have learned > > that nasty behavior pays off in being able to control content. > > > > Fred > > > >> I think you are completely right and it is a big problem in the > >> Wiki-world that is not being addressed by anyone in a leading position. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Lars Gardenius > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Von: Rui Correia > >> An: Wikimedia Mailing List > >> Gesendet: 23:08 Mittwoch, 4.September 2013 > >> Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself > >> > >> > >> Greetings to All > >> > >> Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared > >> to > >> people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long > >> list > >> of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side. > >> > >> In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the > >> project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having > >> to > >> fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics. > >> > >> In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is > >> fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher > >> process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people > >> previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the > >> resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the > >> 'outsider' > >> that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good > >> advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to > >> temper > >> his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round > >> at > >> a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making > >> the > >> WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal. > >> > >> And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email. > >> > >> I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one > >> encounters when you include something negative about certain big > >> corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody > >> else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know > >> there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!". > >> > >> Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - mo
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
I wouldn't say dispute resolution has never worked, nor does it not work now. It could use improvement, but the same could be said about everything (and like most things, shortages of volunteers make things harder) Steve Zhang Sent from my iPad On 05/09/2013, at 6:18 PM, Lars Gardenius wrote: > No I don't think it is being addressed. Not in a serious way. > > That "Wikipedia:Dispute resolution" mirrors a very naive approach in a > worldwide organization. It has never worked before and it doesn't work now. > > To imagine that groups of people will not try and manoeuvre out persons that > they don't like is very naive. > That has not happened before in the history of mankind and the Wikis are no > exception. > > Today noone is accountable for what they do to other Wiki-contributors, they > are not even identifiable since they hide behind nome de guerres. Stewards > have no authority to protect users from abuses and the same goes for the > Ombudsman. (see also Rui Correia's email) > > So if the Wikis want to be a safe place for children and old folks alike, and > that everybody shall be able to contribute on equal conditions, a more > realistic organization to protect the users must be put in place. > > > Regards > Lars Gardenius > > > > Von: Fred Bauder > An: Wikimedia Mailing List > Gesendet: 1:16 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013 > Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself > > > It is addressed but by a rather complicated and demanding process. See > Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Not really workable for new users who bump > up against well-established users who have bad habits, or have learned > that nasty behavior pays off in being able to control content. > > Fred > >> I think you are completely right and it is a big problem in the >> Wiki-world that is not being addressed by anyone in a leading position. >> >> Regards, >> Lars Gardenius >> >> >> >> >> >> Von: Rui Correia >> An: Wikimedia Mailing List >> Gesendet: 23:08 Mittwoch, 4.September 2013 >> Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself >> >> >> Greetings to All >> >> Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared >> to >> people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long >> list >> of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side. >> >> In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the >> project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having >> to >> fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics. >> >> In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is >> fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher >> process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people >> previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the >> resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the >> 'outsider' >> that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good >> advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to >> temper >> his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round >> at >> a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making >> the >> WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal. >> >> And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email. >> >> I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one >> encounters when you include something negative about certain big >> corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody >> else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know >> there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!". >> >> Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - >> was >> anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions >> out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know >> that >> they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here, >> http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles >> >> I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word >> "downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to >> XP. >> For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is >> an >> upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade. >> >> I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending >> the >> entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not >> the >> first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but >> nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately >> closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on >> that >> page, but my entry was closed within min
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)
I believe the relevant passage of text is this one: "Wikimedia Foundation wiki has always been uniquely governed among the family of Wikimedia wikis, with decision-making authority historically placed with the WMF itself due to its purpose (hosting of official documents like bylaws, IRS tax returns, Board resolutions, staff listings, official WMF communications of various kinds, etc.). While the Board was described as the decision-making authority for content disputes before the organization had paid staff, in day-to-day practice, staff members are now helping to maintain and post many of those documents. Consistent with this, my goal was to ensure that the function of a wiki adminstrator, which is often identified with community self-governance, is clearly mapped against the governance model of the site: the organization, with that function delegated to staff members in day-to-day practice, is directly responsible for making and arbitrating decisions on the Wikimedia Foundation’s website. This does not preclude volunteers from being granted administrative-level access where a project requires it and where we have a good working relationship that makes this possible. However, I wanted to create clarity as early and possible, and therefore requested that administrator accounts initially be limited to staff." Steve Zhang Sent from my iPad On 26/05/2013, at 6:04 PM, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" wrote: > Steve Zhang, 26/05/2013 09:08: >> Gayle explained her reasons in the email she sent to this list around 3 >> days ago, [...] > > Ah. I didn't notice, can you please quote the relevant passage[s]? Maybe I > missed some, it was a very long message and its purpose didn't seem to > explain reasons for the action. > > Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [wmau:members] Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Wikimedia Australia public meeting
How long is this away? Sent from my iPhone On 02/03/2013, at 5:46 PM, Tony Souter wrote: > Could there be more notice? And an agenda topic or two might attract more > members into participating. Items don't have to be billed as occupying the > meeting exclusively. > > T > > > On 03/03/2013, at 1:13 PM, Craig Franklin wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> There will be a public Wikimedia Australia meeting today, 3rd March at 17:00 >> hours (5:00pm in NSW, VIC, ACT and TAS, 4pm QLD, 4:30pm SA, 3:30pm NT and >> 2pm WA). It will be held in #wikimedia-au on the Freenode IRC network. >> There is no set agenda so you are welcome to start a discussion about >> anything related to Wikimedia Australia. >> >> Please see http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/IRC for more details. >> >> Regards, >> >> Craig Franklin >> Treasurer >> ___ >> Wikimediaau-l mailing list >> wikimediaa...@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l > > ___ > Tony Souter > *Fixed-line phone: +612 42633401 > *Mobile: 0450 717627 (+61450 717627), but usually not switched on > *Skype: tonysouter > *Street address: 1/29 Tarrant Ave, Kiama Downs 2533, Australia > > > > > > > ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Watchlists are coming to mobile
The amount of times I've inadvertently rolled back an edit viewing my watchlist on my iPhone always made me want a better way to view it on my mobile. Voila! Great work guys. Steve Zhang Sent from my iPhone On 12/02/2013, at 9:56 AM, Philippe Beaudette wrote: > Srsly. Cool. Really. > > ___ > Philippe Beaudette > Director, Community Advocacy > Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. > > 415-839-6885, x 6643 > > phili...@wikimedia.org > > > On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Jon Robson wrote: > >> -- Forwarded message -- >> From: Jon Robson >> Date: Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 2:44 PM >> Subject: Watchlists are coming to mobile >> To: mobile-l , Wikimedia Mailing List >> >> >> >> After a few months of development the mobile team is launching >> watchlists to the mobile site tomorrow. The feature to start with will >> give a simplified recent changes view a la the desktop site as well as >> a reading list view for users who are simply interested in keeping >> track of articles they are interested in reading. >> >> This change also brings in login and account creation functionality to >> all Wiki* projects. >> >> This from my perspective is one of the most exciting mobile >> developments so far as it makes the watchlist star a much more >> prominent figure in the user interface and will hopefully encourage >> new users to create accounts to use it, many of whom may be unaware >> that Wikipedia can be edited. The hope is these new users will find >> the feature useful and can be lured into the realm of becoming a >> contributor to our projects via mobile. >> >> Provided we don't run into any issues during deployment this should be >> deployed tomorrow. >> >> Please feel free to comment on this mail but if you experience any >> bugs in the aftermath please raise them here: >> >> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=MediaWiki%20extensions&component=MobileFrontend >> >> You can also try out the new feature a little early by opting into the >> beta here: >> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MobileOptions >> >> Looking forward to all your feedback. >> >> Screenshot: >> http://imgur.com/jnl5XA4 >> >> -- >> Jon Robson >> http://jonrobson.me.uk >> @rakugojon >> >> ___ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > ___ > Wikimedia-l mailing list > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
