I've worked extensively with dispute resolution on English Wikipedia (I have conducted surveys and so on). If you have specific trends I would welcome seeing them (isolated cases where one side is unhappy with the result is not necessarily a sign the process is flawed, so I am more interested in overall trends but would welcome your opinion.)
Steve Zhang Sent from my iPad On 05/09/2013, at 10:59 PM, Lars Gardenius <[email protected]> wrote: > Sorry, but I have seen several instances where it certainly doesn't work. Not > in a way you would expect in a normal society anyhow. > > Regards, > Lars Gardenius > > > Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > An: Lars Gardenius <[email protected]>; Wikimedia Mailing List > <[email protected]> > CC: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; Wikimedia Mailing List > <[email protected]> > Gesendet: 14:22 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013 > Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself > > I wouldn't say dispute resolution has never worked, nor does it not work now. > It could use improvement, but the same could be said about everything (and > like most things, shortages of volunteers make things harder) > > Steve Zhang > Sent from my iPad > > On 05/09/2013, at 6:18 PM, Lars Gardenius <[email protected]> wrote: > > > No I don't think it is being addressed. Not in a serious way. > > > > That "Wikipedia:Dispute resolution" mirrors a very naive approach in a > > worldwide organization. It has never worked before and it doesn't work now. > > > > To imagine that groups of people will not try and manoeuvre out persons > > that they don't like is very naive. > > That has not happened before in the history of mankind and the Wikis are no > > exception. > > > > Today noone is accountable for what they do to other Wiki-contributors, > > they are not even identifiable since they hide behind nome de guerres. > > Stewards have no authority to protect users from abuses and the same goes > > for the Ombudsman. (see also Rui Correia's email) > > > > So if the Wikis want to be a safe place for children and old folks alike, > > and that everybody shall be able to contribute on equal conditions, a more > > realistic organization to protect the users must be put in place. > > > > > > Regards > > Lars Gardenius > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Von: Fred Bauder <[email protected]> > > An: Wikimedia Mailing List <[email protected]> > > Gesendet: 1:16 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013 > > Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself > > > > > > It is addressed but by a rather complicated and demanding process. See > > Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Not really workable for new users who bump > > up against well-established users who have bad habits, or have learned > > that nasty behavior pays off in being able to control content. > > > > Fred > > > >> I think you are completely right and it is a big problem in the > >> Wiki-world that is not being addressed by anyone in a leading position. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Lars Gardenius > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> Von: Rui Correia <[email protected]> > >> An: Wikimedia Mailing List <[email protected]> > >> Gesendet: 23:08 Mittwoch, 4.September 2013 > >> Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself > >> > >> > >> Greetings to All > >> > >> Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared > >> to > >> people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long > >> list > >> of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side. > >> > >> In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the > >> project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having > >> to > >> fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics. > >> > >> In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is > >> fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher > >> process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people > >> previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the > >> resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the > >> 'outsider' > >> that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good > >> advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to > >> temper > >> his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round > >> at > >> a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making > >> the > >> WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal. > >> > >> And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email. > >> > >> I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one > >> encounters when you include something negative about certain big > >> corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody > >> else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know > >> there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!". > >> > >> Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - > >> was > >> anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions > >> out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know > >> that > >> they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here, > >> http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles > >> > >> I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word > >> "downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to > >> XP. > >> For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is > >> an > >> upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade. > >> > >> I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending > >> the > >> entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not > >> the > >> first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but > >> nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately > >> closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on > >> that > >> page, but my entry was closed within minutes. > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29 > >> > >> It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere. > >> > >> So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I > >> don't > >> do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight > >> languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number > >> of > >> initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see > >> that > >> things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in > >> South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa. > >> > >> So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a > >> novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy. > >> > >> Sincere regards to all, happy editing > >> > >> Rui Correia > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> _________________________ > >> Rui Correia > >> Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant > >> Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant > >> > >> Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186 > >> Número de Telemóvel na Ãfrica do Sul +27 74 425 4186 > >> _______________ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list > > [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list > > [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
