Re: [Wikimedia-l] Hiding versions because of copyright violation

[Risker]

Hi Lodewijk -

I don't think you're mis-translating; I think that there's just a different
understanding of the terms between projects.  Most other projects didn't
get saddled with the extensions that used the actual term "hiding" that
English Wikipedia had, so wouldn't have had a reason to use the more
precise terminology that is used there.

It appears that when you are speaking of "hiding", you are referring to
revision-deletion.  From that perspective, revision-deletion or page
deletion is used on English Wikipedia for almost all copyright violations.
The enwiki policy is here:  <
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Revision_deletion#Criteria_for_redaction>


Risker/Anne

On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 13:20, effe iets anders 
wrote:

> Thanks for those questions.
>
> Just as clarification, I'm talking about hiding revisions with the effect
> that the revisions are greyed out in the history, but that admins can still
> see their content. But I realize that oversight policies (the effect of
> oversight is stronger) may be more prominent, and that perhaps the
> ecosystem of different options should be considered in such a question :) .
>
> Thanks Anne for clarifying terminology - I am mostly aware with the
> terminology we use in Dutch, so may mistranslate some things.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:13 AM Risker  wrote:
>
>> I think one of the issues here is that we are not all using the same
>> terminology.
>>
>> "Hiding", on English Wikipedia, is generally reserved for some weird
>> extensions that had to have special features built in because
>> revision-deletion, deletion, and suppression did not work with them.  I
>> think all of those extensions are now disabled on English Wikipedia.
>>
>> "Revision-deletion" (which has the effect of removing a revision from the
>> view of the reading public and users who are not administrators or
>> equivalent) or complete page deletion is used for most copyright violations
>> on English Wikipedia.  Copyright violations should not be publicly
>> available, since it does not meet even the most basic requirements of edits
>> to the project; I have a hard time seeing why any project would leave them
>> in the page history, since that is the equivalent of leaving them in the
>> project.
>>
>> "Suppression" is an even higher-level form of revision-deletion that
>> removes the revision from the view of everyone except oversighters.  It
>> replaced the old "oversight" extension in 2009, and it is my understanding
>> that all of the revisions that were historically removed using the
>> oversight tool have now been returned to page history and suppressed.
>> (There are some exceptions.) Suppression is used on English Wikipedia for
>> most personal information, which can include anything listed in the WMF
>> privacy policy.
>>
>> There are variations in the use of the deletion/suppression tools: for
>> example, since 2009 we have been able to either "delete" or "suppress"
>> usernames and edit summaries that are highly inappropriate. The ability to
>> "suppress" usernames is sometimes used when someone edits while logged out,
>> not realizing their IP address will appear in the history.
>>
>> I suspect that English Wikipedia has lower thresholds for both
>> revision-deletion and suppression because it has historically been the
>> project that is most abused, sometimes in ways that I'd be hesitant to
>> publicly describe.
>>
>>
>> Risker/Anne
>> (English Wikipedia oversighter)
>>
>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 12:29, effe iets anders 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd
>>> like to pick your collective brains on this:
>>>
>>> What are the various policies across our little universe on using the
>>> 'hide
>>> version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would
>>> especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used in
>>> practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of
>>> private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright
>>> violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just
>>> remove
>>> it from the current version and leave it in the history).
>>>
>>> Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to
>>> double check :).
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Lodewijk
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> 
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Hiding versions because of copyright violation

[Vi to]

At it.wiki:
*copyvios are hidden as soon as they're caught. Also precautionary hiding
is frequently used
*gross insults in summaries and revs are hidden in a discretionary way
*phone numbers and mild leaks are hidden
*profanities are always hidden.

Suppression is very rarely used, also because abusefilter log details are
private, thus reducing the need for suppressing abuselog details which can
only be suppressed.

AFAIK that's the wider revdelete usage across major wikis and likely the
most strict usage of suppression.

Vito

Il giorno lun 14 gen 2019 alle ore 19:20 effe iets anders <
effeietsand...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Thanks for those questions.
>
> Just as clarification, I'm talking about hiding revisions with the effect
> that the revisions are greyed out in the history, but that admins can still
> see their content. But I realize that oversight policies (the effect of
> oversight is stronger) may be more prominent, and that perhaps the
> ecosystem of different options should be considered in such a question :) .
>
> Thanks Anne for clarifying terminology - I am mostly aware with the
> terminology we use in Dutch, so may mistranslate some things.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:13 AM Risker  wrote:
>
> > I think one of the issues here is that we are not all using the same
> > terminology.
> >
> > "Hiding", on English Wikipedia, is generally reserved for some weird
> > extensions that had to have special features built in because
> > revision-deletion, deletion, and suppression did not work with them.  I
> > think all of those extensions are now disabled on English Wikipedia.
> >
> > "Revision-deletion" (which has the effect of removing a revision from the
> > view of the reading public and users who are not administrators or
> > equivalent) or complete page deletion is used for most copyright
> violations
> > on English Wikipedia.  Copyright violations should not be publicly
> > available, since it does not meet even the most basic requirements of
> edits
> > to the project; I have a hard time seeing why any project would leave
> them
> > in the page history, since that is the equivalent of leaving them in the
> > project.
> >
> > "Suppression" is an even higher-level form of revision-deletion that
> > removes the revision from the view of everyone except oversighters.  It
> > replaced the old "oversight" extension in 2009, and it is my
> understanding
> > that all of the revisions that were historically removed using the
> > oversight tool have now been returned to page history and suppressed.
> > (There are some exceptions.) Suppression is used on English Wikipedia for
> > most personal information, which can include anything listed in the WMF
> > privacy policy.
> >
> > There are variations in the use of the deletion/suppression tools: for
> > example, since 2009 we have been able to either "delete" or "suppress"
> > usernames and edit summaries that are highly inappropriate. The ability
> to
> > "suppress" usernames is sometimes used when someone edits while logged
> out,
> > not realizing their IP address will appear in the history.
> >
> > I suspect that English Wikipedia has lower thresholds for both
> > revision-deletion and suppression because it has historically been the
> > project that is most abused, sometimes in ways that I'd be hesitant to
> > publicly describe.
> >
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> > (English Wikipedia oversighter)
> >
> > On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 12:29, effe iets anders  >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd
> >> like to pick your collective brains on this:
> >>
> >> What are the various policies across our little universe on using the
> >> 'hide
> >> version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would
> >> especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used
> in
> >> practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of
> >> private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright
> >> violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just
> >> remove
> >> it from the current version and leave it in the history).
> >>
> >> Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to
> >> double check :).
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Lodewijk
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> >
> >
> ___
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> New messages to: 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Hiding versions because of copyright violation

[effe iets anders]

Thanks for those questions.

Just as clarification, I'm talking about hiding revisions with the effect
that the revisions are greyed out in the history, but that admins can still
see their content. But I realize that oversight policies (the effect of
oversight is stronger) may be more prominent, and that perhaps the
ecosystem of different options should be considered in such a question :) .

Thanks Anne for clarifying terminology - I am mostly aware with the
terminology we use in Dutch, so may mistranslate some things.

Lodewijk

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:13 AM Risker  wrote:

> I think one of the issues here is that we are not all using the same
> terminology.
>
> "Hiding", on English Wikipedia, is generally reserved for some weird
> extensions that had to have special features built in because
> revision-deletion, deletion, and suppression did not work with them.  I
> think all of those extensions are now disabled on English Wikipedia.
>
> "Revision-deletion" (which has the effect of removing a revision from the
> view of the reading public and users who are not administrators or
> equivalent) or complete page deletion is used for most copyright violations
> on English Wikipedia.  Copyright violations should not be publicly
> available, since it does not meet even the most basic requirements of edits
> to the project; I have a hard time seeing why any project would leave them
> in the page history, since that is the equivalent of leaving them in the
> project.
>
> "Suppression" is an even higher-level form of revision-deletion that
> removes the revision from the view of everyone except oversighters.  It
> replaced the old "oversight" extension in 2009, and it is my understanding
> that all of the revisions that were historically removed using the
> oversight tool have now been returned to page history and suppressed.
> (There are some exceptions.) Suppression is used on English Wikipedia for
> most personal information, which can include anything listed in the WMF
> privacy policy.
>
> There are variations in the use of the deletion/suppression tools: for
> example, since 2009 we have been able to either "delete" or "suppress"
> usernames and edit summaries that are highly inappropriate. The ability to
> "suppress" usernames is sometimes used when someone edits while logged out,
> not realizing their IP address will appear in the history.
>
> I suspect that English Wikipedia has lower thresholds for both
> revision-deletion and suppression because it has historically been the
> project that is most abused, sometimes in ways that I'd be hesitant to
> publicly describe.
>
>
> Risker/Anne
> (English Wikipedia oversighter)
>
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 12:29, effe iets anders 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd
>> like to pick your collective brains on this:
>>
>> What are the various policies across our little universe on using the
>> 'hide
>> version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would
>> especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used in
>> practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of
>> private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright
>> violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just
>> remove
>> it from the current version and leave it in the history).
>>
>> Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to
>> double check :).
>>
>> Best,
>> Lodewijk
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Hiding versions because of copyright violation

[Risker]

I think one of the issues here is that we are not all using the same
terminology.

"Hiding", on English Wikipedia, is generally reserved for some weird
extensions that had to have special features built in because
revision-deletion, deletion, and suppression did not work with them.  I
think all of those extensions are now disabled on English Wikipedia.

"Revision-deletion" (which has the effect of removing a revision from the
view of the reading public and users who are not administrators or
equivalent) or complete page deletion is used for most copyright violations
on English Wikipedia.  Copyright violations should not be publicly
available, since it does not meet even the most basic requirements of edits
to the project; I have a hard time seeing why any project would leave them
in the page history, since that is the equivalent of leaving them in the
project.

"Suppression" is an even higher-level form of revision-deletion that
removes the revision from the view of everyone except oversighters.  It
replaced the old "oversight" extension in 2009, and it is my understanding
that all of the revisions that were historically removed using the
oversight tool have now been returned to page history and suppressed.
(There are some exceptions.) Suppression is used on English Wikipedia for
most personal information, which can include anything listed in the WMF
privacy policy.

There are variations in the use of the deletion/suppression tools: for
example, since 2009 we have been able to either "delete" or "suppress"
usernames and edit summaries that are highly inappropriate. The ability to
"suppress" usernames is sometimes used when someone edits while logged out,
not realizing their IP address will appear in the history.

I suspect that English Wikipedia has lower thresholds for both
revision-deletion and suppression because it has historically been the
project that is most abused, sometimes in ways that I'd be hesitant to
publicly describe.


Risker/Anne
(English Wikipedia oversighter)

On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 12:29, effe iets anders 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd
> like to pick your collective brains on this:
>
> What are the various policies across our little universe on using the 'hide
> version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would
> especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used in
> practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of
> private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright
> violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just remove
> it from the current version and leave it in the history).
>
> Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to
> double check :).
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Hiding versions because of copyright violation

[Marielle Volz]

Are you talking about deleting revisions? There is a global policy on this,
found here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Oversight_policy

There are local rules as well, compiled here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Oversight_policy/Local_policies

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Revision_deletion

Cheers,
Marielle

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 5:44 PM Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

>  privacy violations is not standard at all. For example some wikis hide
> personal details that people put on purpose, while other ones see no point
> since it's their will to show them.
>
> Also, even if it is not strictly related to private information, blocking
> deceased users is not standardized among platforms.
>
> Il lunedì 14 gennaio 2019, 18:29:36 CET, effe iets anders <
> effeietsand...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>  Hi all,
>
> This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd
> like to pick your collective brains on this:
>
> What are the various policies across our little universe on using the 'hide
> version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would
> especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used in
> practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of
> private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright
> violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just remove
> it from the current version and leave it in the history).
>
> Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to
> double check :).
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
> ___
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> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Hiding versions because of copyright violation

[Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l]

 privacy violations is not standard at all. For example some wikis hide 
personal details that people put on purpose, while other ones see no point 
since it's their will to show them. 

Also, even if it is not strictly related to private information, blocking 
deceased users is not standardized among platforms.

Il lunedì 14 gennaio 2019, 18:29:36 CET, effe iets anders 
 ha scritto:  
 
 Hi all,

This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd
like to pick your collective brains on this:

What are the various policies across our little universe on using the 'hide
version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would
especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used in
practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of
private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright
violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just remove
it from the current version and leave it in the history).

Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to
double check :).

Best,
Lodewijk
___
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[Wikimedia-l] Hiding versions because of copyright violation

[effe iets anders]

Hi all,

This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd
like to pick your collective brains on this:

What are the various policies across our little universe on using the 'hide
version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would
especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used in
practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of
private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright
violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just remove
it from the current version and leave it in the history).

Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to
double check :).

Best,
Lodewijk
___
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