[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Ashwin Baindur]

+1 to Subhashish's points of view.

I have another point about the nomenclature. How can three Wikimedians from
just one country, Bangladesh in this case, get to form a group that by its
very nomenclature represents a complete region, which includes a very large
number of communities, without any engagement with, consensus of, and
participation of all these communities?

The chosen name itself gives the impression that the group is to fulfill
the role of umbrella organisation over all the communities of Asia and
Pacific. Nomenclature matters.

So, while three individual Wikimedians are welcome to start a user group,
they are not the representative of these communities and any user group
that they set up if recognised by the Aff Comm should be appropriately
named.

Should a user group for Asia Pacific be created, then it should be with the
express participation of all the communities of the Asia Pacific region.

User:AshLin (en:WP)

On Sun, 28 May, 2023, 12:56 am Subhashish,  wrote:

> I want to write with the spirit that I respect the co-founders of the
> Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group (WAPAC) as individual volunteer
> fellow Wikimedians. Still, I strongly disagree with creating this user
> group. It seems like forming a new user group where three co-founders have
> some conflict with Wikimedia Bangladesh. But instead of finding ways to
> resolve those conflicts, they, all from Bangladesh, started a parallel user
> group and called it Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group.
>
> For context, the Asia-Pacific region includes over 45 economies and is
> home to 60% of the world's population that speaks over 2,000 languages. I
> highly doubt that forming a user group due to unsolved interpersonal
> conflicts is a good idea. There is, of course, a lack of conversations with
> communities of this large region and a lack of regional representation. Not
> to mention, ESEAP, the organiser of Wikimania this year, had no clue. There
> are many ways to solve interpersonal conflicts, but creating a user group
> without a real reason is not one.
>
> Subhashish
>
>
> On Sat, May 27, 2023 at 3:00 PM Iftekhar Hossain Iftee <
> i.h.ifte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Note: my last mail was caught in moderation queue, I sent it before
>> Aishik's last mail but it got approved after his mail.
>>
>> Iftee
>>
>> On Sat, May 27, 2023, 7:41 PM Aaqib Anjum Aafi 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am not sure where is the disappointing stuff in this thread. You are
>>> free to start a usergroup and work under an umbrella which adds more to the
>>> diversity of the movement, and I suppose it should, in  your case, given
>>> you plenty of valuable contributions. However, calling helpful and friendly
>>> suggestions of others on certain errors that you made as "something
>>> unconstructive" is just being dishonest. Most of the comments on this
>>> thread are telling you constructively to engage with the larger community,
>>> for instance, with regards to the name of the usergroup. I run a thematic
>>> usergroup and I had to go through months of AffCom review: this thing
>>> overlaps this thing and so on, even though I had not used any such name or
>>> overlapped seriously with any specific community. However, the wider
>>> community groups in India where consulted by AffCom before they approved my
>>> usergroup application.
>>>
>>> The reason of me telling this to you is that most of the people
>>> commenting here are sharing their experiences and telling you what should
>>> be the correct step. You should invite all the communities that are in the
>>> region with which the name overlaps and have their comments heard, and if
>>> that doesn't reach any conclusion, you can opt for a different name that
>>> could perhaps serve your ideas and goals better.
>>>
>>> I hope this makes some sense.
>>> ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Subhashish]

I want to write with the spirit that I respect the co-founders of the
Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group (WAPAC) as individual volunteer
fellow Wikimedians. Still, I strongly disagree with creating this user
group. It seems like forming a new user group where three co-founders have
some conflict with Wikimedia Bangladesh. But instead of finding ways to
resolve those conflicts, they, all from Bangladesh, started a parallel user
group and called it Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group.

For context, the Asia-Pacific region includes over 45 economies and is home
to 60% of the world's population that speaks over 2,000 languages. I highly
doubt that forming a user group due to unsolved interpersonal conflicts is
a good idea. There is, of course, a lack of conversations with communities
of this large region and a lack of regional representation. Not to
mention, ESEAP, the organiser of Wikimania this year, had no clue. There
are many ways to solve interpersonal conflicts, but creating a user group
without a real reason is not one.

Subhashish


On Sat, May 27, 2023 at 3:00 PM Iftekhar Hossain Iftee <
i.h.ifte...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Note: my last mail was caught in moderation queue, I sent it before
> Aishik's last mail but it got approved after his mail.
>
> Iftee
>
> On Sat, May 27, 2023, 7:41 PM Aaqib Anjum Aafi 
> wrote:
>
>> I am not sure where is the disappointing stuff in this thread. You are
>> free to start a usergroup and work under an umbrella which adds more to the
>> diversity of the movement, and I suppose it should, in  your case, given
>> you plenty of valuable contributions. However, calling helpful and friendly
>> suggestions of others on certain errors that you made as "something
>> unconstructive" is just being dishonest. Most of the comments on this
>> thread are telling you constructively to engage with the larger community,
>> for instance, with regards to the name of the usergroup. I run a thematic
>> usergroup and I had to go through months of AffCom review: this thing
>> overlaps this thing and so on, even though I had not used any such name or
>> overlapped seriously with any specific community. However, the wider
>> community groups in India where consulted by AffCom before they approved my
>> usergroup application.
>>
>> The reason of me telling this to you is that most of the people
>> commenting here are sharing their experiences and telling you what should
>> be the correct step. You should invite all the communities that are in the
>> region with which the name overlaps and have their comments heard, and if
>> that doesn't reach any conclusion, you can opt for a different name that
>> could perhaps serve your ideas and goals better.
>>
>> I hope this makes some sense.
>> ___
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>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/PXM6YIMPATMAEKGVORO6FSOQN3AVA7J6/
>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Iftekhar Hossain Iftee]

Note: my last mail was caught in moderation queue, I sent it before
Aishik's last mail but it got approved after his mail.

Iftee

On Sat, May 27, 2023, 7:41 PM Aaqib Anjum Aafi 
wrote:

> I am not sure where is the disappointing stuff in this thread. You are
> free to start a usergroup and work under an umbrella which adds more to the
> diversity of the movement, and I suppose it should, in  your case, given
> you plenty of valuable contributions. However, calling helpful and friendly
> suggestions of others on certain errors that you made as "something
> unconstructive" is just being dishonest. Most of the comments on this
> thread are telling you constructively to engage with the larger community,
> for instance, with regards to the name of the usergroup. I run a thematic
> usergroup and I had to go through months of AffCom review: this thing
> overlaps this thing and so on, even though I had not used any such name or
> overlapped seriously with any specific community. However, the wider
> community groups in India where consulted by AffCom before they approved my
> usergroup application.
>
> The reason of me telling this to you is that most of the people commenting
> here are sharing their experiences and telling you what should be the
> correct step. You should invite all the communities that are in the region
> with which the name overlaps and have their comments heard, and if that
> doesn't reach any conclusion, you can opt for a different name that could
> perhaps serve your ideas and goals better.
>
> I hope this makes some sense.
> ___
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> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Shakil hosen]

Dear  Iftee ,

Thank you for your email. I would like to clarify that Wikimedia Bangladesh
had no involvement in the formation of this group. Aishik has repeatedly
confirmed this fact, so I'm not sure why you continue to mention Wikimedia
Bangladesh. It's important not to confuse this with any personal conflicts
that the organization may have with you or your team.

Furthermore, it should be noted that once a person works with one
organization, there are no restrictions preventing them from working with
another user group or organization in the future. In this case, they may
have chosen to collaborate with the new team and types of work, and it is
their decision. Please refrain from fabricating stories about conflicts
between them.

I want to reiterate that Wikimedia Bangladesh played no part in the
establishment of this team, and discussions regarding their involvement are
irrelevant in this context.

Lastly, it has already been stated that the group will not be progressing
further. Therefore, I kindly request that close this thread.


Best,
Shakil

On Sat, May 27, 2023 at 7:41 PM Iftekhar Hossain Iftee <
i.h.ifte...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I agree with Butch and Gnangarra. We need to solve local conflicts first
> and then go for broader global collaboration. Volunteers are the fuel of
> Wikimedia, it's not a wise step to completely ignore volunteers from a
> particular region and start an affiliate covering those areas.
>
> To Ankan and Aishik specifically,
> Thanks a lot for your response. What you said is completely different from
> what we are experiencing right now in the local community here in
> Bangladesh. I'm seeing the local volunteer community including the admin
> panel being divided into numerous micro-groups and these groups are being
> engaged in multifaceted conflicts within themselves. In fact, executive
> members from Wikimedia Bangladesh have also been engaged in heated
> exchanges with several community members including a few admins in the last
> few weeks. There are numerous on and private offwiki social group incidents
> where the community members experienced these. The village pump of bnwiki
> itself is flooded with recent heated discussions. I'm mentioning Wikimedia
> Bangladesh here because I, myself have seen them being involved in
> conflicts with several local organizers. Since the formation of this user
> group is rooted in the local conflict in Bangladesh that involves Wikimedia
> Bangladesh also, I would request not to suppress the voice of local
> volunteers and try to find a solution locally that may involve perspective
> from experienced global contributors. But please don't flood the global
> mailing list and it's better to put an end to this user group discussion.
>
> Being honest, Aishik is one of the most celebrated organizers in
> Bangladesh, anyone active here in the local movement would agree that. It
> is very weird that no one from Wikimedia Bangladesh noticed Aishik's user
> page and requested them to put down the "Associate Member" status if Aishik
> is not anyhow formally connected to this chapter. No local contributor
> would believe that no one from the local chapter noticed Aishik's user page
> before.
>
> The contact persons of this user group are some of the most active
> organizers of Wikimedia Bangladesh. In fact, they have organized and worked
> hard for Wikimedia Bangladesh even more than the Executive Committee
> members, we haven't at least seen the Executive Committee members actively
> organizing anything in the local community in most cases. Local volunteers
> can ensure that it is quite unbelievable that the founders of this user
> group didn't discuss it with Wikimedia Bangladesh. I repeat it's not
> possible that they didn't discuss it with the local chapter here. There are
> two possible options. The first one is, the local chapter supported the
> decision of launching this user group even after knowing that it would
> create overlapping and conflict. And the second one is, they didn't support
> and let these people go as they wish (again, knowing that there would be a
> conflict). Since they are the most active organizers of Wikimedia
> Bangladesh, it's not impossible that there was a conflict between these two
> groups - the unstable situation in the local community also supports this
> possibility.
>
> I don't think it's valid to directly tag any concern using words like
> "fictitious" and "blame on the basis of personal thoughts". There are tons
> of on and offwiki proofs that may support the idea that these "allegations"
> against Wikimedia Bangladesh are shared thoughts instead of just personal
> opinions. But I don't think it would be a good idea to present the evidence
> here since this is not the main topic in this thread (though it's very much
> relevant to study the background of the current global situation). The
> community came to know about an active trust and safety case against four
> of the bnwiki admins 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Aaqib Anjum Aafi]

I am not sure where is the disappointing stuff in this thread. You are free to 
start a usergroup and work under an umbrella which adds more to the diversity 
of the movement, and I suppose it should, in  your case, given you plenty of 
valuable contributions. However, calling helpful and friendly suggestions of 
others on certain errors that you made as "something unconstructive" is just 
being dishonest. Most of the comments on this thread are telling you 
constructively to engage with the larger community, for instance, with regards 
to the name of the usergroup. I run a thematic usergroup and I had to go 
through months of AffCom review: this thing overlaps this thing and so on, even 
though I had not used any such name or overlapped seriously with any specific 
community. However, the wider community groups in India where consulted by 
AffCom before they approved my usergroup application. 

The reason of me telling this to you is that most of the people commenting here 
are sharing their experiences and telling you what should be the correct step. 
You should invite all the communities that are in the region with which the 
name overlaps and have their comments heard, and if that doesn't reach any 
conclusion, you can opt for a different name that could perhaps serve your 
ideas and goals better. 

I hope this makes some sense.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Iftekhar Hossain Iftee]

Hello everyone,

I agree with Butch and Gnangarra. We need to solve local conflicts first
and then go for broader global collaboration. Volunteers are the fuel of
Wikimedia, it's not a wise step to completely ignore volunteers from a
particular region and start an affiliate covering those areas.

To Ankan and Aishik specifically,
Thanks a lot for your response. What you said is completely different from
what we are experiencing right now in the local community here in
Bangladesh. I'm seeing the local volunteer community including the admin
panel being divided into numerous micro-groups and these groups are being
engaged in multifaceted conflicts within themselves. In fact, executive
members from Wikimedia Bangladesh have also been engaged in heated
exchanges with several community members including a few admins in the last
few weeks. There are numerous on and private offwiki social group incidents
where the community members experienced these. The village pump of bnwiki
itself is flooded with recent heated discussions. I'm mentioning Wikimedia
Bangladesh here because I, myself have seen them being involved in
conflicts with several local organizers. Since the formation of this user
group is rooted in the local conflict in Bangladesh that involves Wikimedia
Bangladesh also, I would request not to suppress the voice of local
volunteers and try to find a solution locally that may involve perspective
from experienced global contributors. But please don't flood the global
mailing list and it's better to put an end to this user group discussion.

Being honest, Aishik is one of the most celebrated organizers in
Bangladesh, anyone active here in the local movement would agree that. It
is very weird that no one from Wikimedia Bangladesh noticed Aishik's user
page and requested them to put down the "Associate Member" status if Aishik
is not anyhow formally connected to this chapter. No local contributor
would believe that no one from the local chapter noticed Aishik's user page
before.

The contact persons of this user group are some of the most active
organizers of Wikimedia Bangladesh. In fact, they have organized and worked
hard for Wikimedia Bangladesh even more than the Executive Committee
members, we haven't at least seen the Executive Committee members actively
organizing anything in the local community in most cases. Local volunteers
can ensure that it is quite unbelievable that the founders of this user
group didn't discuss it with Wikimedia Bangladesh. I repeat it's not
possible that they didn't discuss it with the local chapter here. There are
two possible options. The first one is, the local chapter supported the
decision of launching this user group even after knowing that it would
create overlapping and conflict. And the second one is, they didn't support
and let these people go as they wish (again, knowing that there would be a
conflict). Since they are the most active organizers of Wikimedia
Bangladesh, it's not impossible that there was a conflict between these two
groups - the unstable situation in the local community also supports this
possibility.

I don't think it's valid to directly tag any concern using words like
"fictitious" and "blame on the basis of personal thoughts". There are tons
of on and offwiki proofs that may support the idea that these "allegations"
against Wikimedia Bangladesh are shared thoughts instead of just personal
opinions. But I don't think it would be a good idea to present the evidence
here since this is not the main topic in this thread (though it's very much
relevant to study the background of the current global situation). The
community came to know about an active trust and safety case against four
of the bnwiki admins for target harassment from public discussions. In
fact, in the bnwiki village pump, it has also surfaced that one or more
people from these four admins have close relations with Wikimedia
Bangladesh, and the chapter is directly or indirectly involved in the
harassment incidents. According to my observation, these harassment
incidents were some of the root causes behind the current unstable
situation in the local community which has been brought globally via the
formation of this user group.

Again, I agree with Butch and Gnangarra, we should not clog the global
mailing list with local conflict issues and solve the local conflict first.
It is better not to consider proceeding with the proposed user group and
take some time to know and collaborate with the volunteers from all over
the mentioned region, and solve the local complexities locally first.
Before launching such an ambitious initiative, our colleagues from Eseap
and other regions should be consulted and their opinions should be
considered carefully. I hope that this discussion will come to a successful
conclusion.

Regards,
Iftee

On Sat, 27 May 2023 at 09:15, Butch Bustria  wrote:

> Hey Aishik,
>
> The first action you need to make is to move the meta wiki page to Draft
> page and find a 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Aishik Rehman]

Thanks everyone, I don't want to work on this anymore. I'm also going to
end my Wikimedia movement. Most of the comments here are not constructive
but full of personal ego*.


1. রাফি
তুমি আষাঢ়ে গল্প জুড়ে দিয়েছ বৈশাখ মাসে। এইসব আষাঢ়ে গল্প দিয়ে তুমি আলোচনায় যে
প্রভাব ফেলতে চেয়েছিলে সেটাতে সক্ষম হয়েছ। উইকিমিডিয়া বাংলাদেশের সাথে তোমার
দা-কুড়াল সম্পর্ক থাকতে পারে, আমাদের কারুর সেরকম বিবাধ ছিল না। তুমি কেবল
অনুমানের উপর ভিত্তি  করে বিশাল রচনা লেখে ফেলেছো।

2. Gnangarra
That you have the confidence to believe Rafi's fantastic tale is admirable.
But the whole tone of your words was aggressive, it's sad.

3. Butch Bustria
I understand your concern. Thanks for your suggestion, but this initiative
is no longer being run. At least I'm not moving anymore.

4. বোধিসত্ত্ব!
অসংখ্য ধন্যবাদ। আপনি দারুণ সহযোগিতা করেছেন আমাকে উইকিমিডিয়া আন্দোলন কী সেটা
বুঝতে! আপনি আমাদের একজন ভারতীয় সদস্যকে গ্রুপ থেকে সরে যেতে পরামর্শ
 দিয়েছেন, সেটা সফল হয়েছে। আপনি মনে করছেন যে আমরা অন্য কোন সম্প্রদায়ের উপর
সুপিরিয়র হিসেবে আবির্ভূত হতে চাচ্ছি । কিন্তু এটা ভুল ছিল।

The beginning of the discussion was constructive, but the end disappointed
me. Thanks again everyone.


Regards,
Aishik Rehman
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Butch Bustria]

Hey Aishik,

The first action you need to make is to move the meta wiki page to Draft
page and find a working name. Maybe *Wikipedia Project West and Central
Asia.*

ESEAP started as ESEA in 2014 during Wikimania London 2014 (Source:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/ESEA_Meetup/MeetingMinutes) . I am not
there as I was just starting my work in Singapore. The concept of a
regional collaboration started 9 years ago when multiple countries agree to
work on something, not one part of a country, not two countries, but four
countries. Then on, all blood, sweat and tears to reach a consensus of 18
Wikimedia communities (plus 15 more we have to explore in the Pacific
islands) to come together and reach an agreement to formally build an ESEAP
regional hub.

We are open to collaboration but please start a bold confidence building
measure to earn our trust.


To Movement Charter Drafting Committee,

Despite absence of an ESEAP person to the large committee, we humbly
suggest that you finally settle the definition of user groups, advocacy
groups, alliance groups, online project groups and all others to avoid any
ambiguity as it creates confusion to partners and general public; unfair
competition and tension amongst Wikimedians. We originally have charters
before but now the terminology of a user group became insanely
disorganized. Once it is drafted, it will be voted upon the general
community anyways.


To Everyone,

The theme of Wikimania 2023 is Diversity, Collaboration, Future. We aim
this year's event be another milestone for people to meet and do a similar
experience Wikimedians in 2014 to form regional and thematic
collaborations. We respect diversity but we discourage highly divisive
discussions.


Kind regards,

*Butch Bustria*
Wikimedia East, South East Asia and the Pacific




On Sat, May 27, 2023, 7:26 AM Aishik Rehman  wrote:

> To everyone,
>
> Thank you for your continued engagement and valuable feedback regarding
> the establishment of the UG. We have carefully considered the concerns
> raised regarding the name and the inclusion of the ESEAP region. We are
> committed to addressing these issues and ensuring a conflict-free and
> effective user group.
>
> Regarding the name, we understand the importance of avoiding possible
> conflicts and overlaps. We are open to considering a non-geographical name
> that better represents the collaborative nature of our user group. We
> welcome suggestions and input from the community in this regard.
>
> In terms of the ESEAP region, we recognize the need for a balanced
> approach. We are also open to excluding the region if it helps mitigate
> conflicts and ensures effective collaboration. We seek serious advice and
> assistance from those with experience and expertise to help us navigate
> these considerations.
>
> To Rafi, we appreciate your input, but we want to clarify that we have no
> links or conflicts with Wikimedia Bangladesh. Our focus is on building a
> user group that complements and collaborates with existing affiliates. Your
> concerns regarding Wikimedia Bangladesh are not relevant to the
> establishment and functioning of the WAP UG.
>
> We invite all interested individuals to join us in finding solutions and
> shaping the future direction of the user group. Your insights, expertise,
> and assistance in making the UG conflict-free and effective are highly
> valued.
>
> Thank you for your continued support and engagement.
>
> Best regards,
> Aishik Rehman
> Volunteer, Wikimedians of the [?] User Group
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Gnangarra]

Hi Aishik

For clarity, I am part of the interim ESEAP Hub committee, I have been
involved with ESEAP since its founding in 2012, and I'm part of the ESEAP
COT for Wikimania 2023.  Reading this and looking at the page you created,
what I see is a symptom of internal issues in Bangladesh and a decision to
up the ante on that by making this UG.   While you have some individuals
you dont have any connections to the ESEAP part of your plans, nor has
anyone reached out to the region.

People are asking you to drop the claim because of that lack of connections
and the serious overlap in efforts. You have said "We are also open to
excluding the region if it helps" please do that.

Sorry for being blunt but you have been missing the advice of other people,
please just put your effort into resolving the internal issues in
Bangladesh.

On Sat, 27 May 2023 at 07:27, Aishik Rehman  wrote:

> To everyone,
>
> Thank you for your continued engagement and valuable feedback regarding
> the establishment of the UG. We have carefully considered the concerns
> raised regarding the name and the inclusion of the ESEAP region. We are
> committed to addressing these issues and ensuring a conflict-free and
> effective user group.
>
> Regarding the name, we understand the importance of avoiding possible
> conflicts and overlaps. We are open to considering a non-geographical name
> that better represents the collaborative nature of our user group. We
> welcome suggestions and input from the community in this regard.
>
> In terms of the ESEAP region, we recognize the need for a balanced
> approach. We are also open to excluding the region if it helps mitigate
> conflicts and ensures effective collaboration. We seek serious advice and
> assistance from those with experience and expertise to help us navigate
> these considerations.
>
> To Rafi, we appreciate your input, but we want to clarify that we have no
> links or conflicts with Wikimedia Bangladesh. Our focus is on building a
> user group that complements and collaborates with existing affiliates. Your
> concerns regarding Wikimedia Bangladesh are not relevant to the
> establishment and functioning of the WAP UG.
>
> We invite all interested individuals to join us in finding solutions and
> shaping the future direction of the user group. Your insights, expertise,
> and assistance in making the UG conflict-free and effective are highly
> valued.
>
> Thank you for your continued support and engagement.
>
> Best regards,
> Aishik Rehman
> Volunteer, Wikimedians of the [?] User Group
> ___
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-- 
Boodarwun
Gnangarra
'ngany dabakarn koorliny arn boodjera dardoon ngalang Nyungar koortaboodjar'
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Aishik Rehman]

To everyone,

Thank you for your continued engagement and valuable feedback regarding the 
establishment of the UG. We have carefully considered the concerns raised 
regarding the name and the inclusion of the ESEAP region. We are committed to 
addressing these issues and ensuring a conflict-free and effective user group.

Regarding the name, we understand the importance of avoiding possible conflicts 
and overlaps. We are open to considering a non-geographical name that better 
represents the collaborative nature of our user group. We welcome suggestions 
and input from the community in this regard.

In terms of the ESEAP region, we recognize the need for a balanced approach. We 
are also open to excluding the region if it helps mitigate conflicts and 
ensures effective collaboration. We seek serious advice and assistance from 
those with experience and expertise to help us navigate these considerations.

To Rafi, we appreciate your input, but we want to clarify that we have no links 
or conflicts with Wikimedia Bangladesh. Our focus is on building a user group 
that complements and collaborates with existing affiliates. Your concerns 
regarding Wikimedia Bangladesh are not relevant to the establishment and 
functioning of the WAP UG.

We invite all interested individuals to join us in finding solutions and 
shaping the future direction of the user group. Your insights, expertise, and 
assistance in making the UG conflict-free and effective are highly valued.

Thank you for your continued support and engagement.

Best regards,
Aishik Rehman
Volunteer, Wikimedians of the [?] User Group
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Aaqib Anjum Aafi]

I agree with Butch and Bodhi on this. However, Ameisenigel is also right on 
their input. fwiw, the use of Wikimedia housemark logo is subject to a 
trademark policy, apart from whatever has been said so far.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Gergő Tisza]

It's good to have ambitions, but a user group that strives to span 25
countries (between them containing maybe half of the Earth's population)
while currently has 8 members is maybe a bit too ambitious.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Ankan Ghosh Dastider]

Hello everyone,

I would like to add a few points with respect to this discussion since
there are lots of undermining "thoughts".

1. Firstly, there is no such thing called an 'associate member' in the
bylaws of Wikimedia Bangladesh. One can easily become a supporting/regular
member following the chapter's rules and regulations. Secondly, anyone with
an aligned interest in the Wiki movement can work with an affiliate or the
affiliate can also invite someone to work with them. That doesn't mean the
volunteers can't take their own decisions. To clarify, they don't have the
obligation to inform the chapter at all. I personally can remember
conducting workshops even before becoming a member of the chapter. Anyway,
I can confirm that there was no such discussion within the chapter, and I
see nothing puzzling here. Lastly, bringing a sensitive issue like
harassment to a public mailing list on the basis of an "allegation", is not
expected at all. None has the ground to create such an image of any
volunteers because of an "allegation" only. I would encourage everyone not
to escalate the discussion in another direction and keep it friendly.

2. "Wikimedia Bangladesh is facing backlash within the local community." or
"This local affiliate has a troubling history of suppressing emerging
leadership in order to maintain control over its perceived "territory." "
are some fictitious statements, to blame on the basis of personal thoughts.
We have always worked with the community, and hope to do that in the future
as well. Although I would concentrate on commenting on the relevant things
in this thread, I can't restrict myself from saying that I, who joined the
chapter in 2016 as a supporting member, am proof of whether the chapter
encourages new people to lead or not.

3. I personally do believe that creating a UG with this name without any
discussion with the mentioned region's existing groups is confusing. I
agree with what Butch and Bodhisattwa have already pointed out.

Best,
Ankan



On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 12:10 AM Mrb Rafi  wrote:

> Well, this is strange and interesting at the same time. There is a lot
> going on inside South Asian communities that have been hidden from the
> world and have started to surface now.
>
> I have made an effort to analyze and document my observations regarding
> the "WAP UG" and have outlined them in the following list:
>
> 1. The primary concern is undoubtedly the non-compliance of this UG with
> the standard Affcom procedures, indicating either a lack of capacity or
> willingness to adhere to the requisite rules for the initiation of a UG.
>
> 2. The home wiki for all three contact persons listed on the meta page
> happens to be bnwiki. Notably, two of them are part of the bnwiki admin
> panel, which comprises a total of 13 editors. bnwiki serves as the home
> wiki for six out of the eight members affiliated with this UG also.
>
> 3. One of the three contact persons has explicitly stated on their user
> page that they are an associate member of Wikimedia Bangladesh.
> Furthermore, the other two individuals have close affiliations with the
> local chapter in Bangladesh. Their names can be found in the CoT
>  for the implementation of the local Wikimania in
> 2022. Those of us involved in the local movement, including myself, are
> aware that these three individuals constitute a significant portion of the
> capable workforce within Wikimedia Bangladesh. It is very unlikely that the
> local chapter's three most active and leading organizers would make such a
> substantial leap without internal discussions within Wikimedia Bangladesh,
> and it is puzzling that the chapter appears to be unaware of this. It is
> worth noting that there are allegations of off-wiki harassment against at
> least one of these three UAP UG contact persons. Additionally, Wikimedia
> Bangladesh is facing backlash within the local community.
>
> 4. Operating an organization without formal recognition from Affcom does
> not present a fundamental obstacle. I, myself, am leading two non-affiliate
> organized groups and believe that these non-affiliate groups are essential
> to make the movement more distributed and transparent. But, to a lot of
> people, getting recognized as affiliate leaders is rewarding enough which
> may set unrealistic expectations. Personally, I am not a big fan of the
> affiliate structure based on my observations in the local movement, as they
> sometimes prioritize political territoriality over productive endeavors.
> From my experience, it appears that affiliates function as the sole
> authority within a designated territory determined by Affcom, and they are
> prepared to safeguard their sovereignty over that territory (including the
> onwiki spaces covered by the language or culture of the territory) at any
> cost. Regarding Bodhisattwa's expectations, it is improbable that Wikimedia
> Bangladesh, "being a decentralized organization and with good community
> 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Butch Bustria]

To our Bangla Wikimedians who initiated this tensive plan,

I humbly suggest that rather than you set an ambition of going further
east, you work on capacitating collaborating and helping the Wikimedia
communities of Central Asia, Bhutan, Maldives, Pakistan, Afghanistan and
even the islands of the Indian Ocean. These are the communities left
without a hub. You work on a unique name, join in Iran and I personally
help you on this.

But please don't attempt to cross ESEAP.


Kind regards,

*Butch Bustria*
Wikimedia East, South East Asia and the Pacific

On Fri, May 26, 2023, 2:10 AM Mrb Rafi  wrote:

> Well, this is strange and interesting at the same time. There is a lot
> going on inside South Asian communities that have been hidden from the
> world and have started to surface now.
>
> I have made an effort to analyze and document my observations regarding
> the "WAP UG" and have outlined them in the following list:
>
> 1. The primary concern is undoubtedly the non-compliance of this UG with
> the standard Affcom procedures, indicating either a lack of capacity or
> willingness to adhere to the requisite rules for the initiation of a UG.
>
> 2. The home wiki for all three contact persons listed on the meta page
> happens to be bnwiki. Notably, two of them are part of the bnwiki admin
> panel, which comprises a total of 13 editors. bnwiki serves as the home
> wiki for six out of the eight members affiliated with this UG also.
>
> 3. One of the three contact persons has explicitly stated on their user
> page that they are an associate member of Wikimedia Bangladesh.
> Furthermore, the other two individuals have close affiliations with the
> local chapter in Bangladesh. Their names can be found in the CoT
>  for the implementation of the local Wikimania in
> 2022. Those of us involved in the local movement, including myself, are
> aware that these three individuals constitute a significant portion of the
> capable workforce within Wikimedia Bangladesh. It is very unlikely that the
> local chapter's three most active and leading organizers would make such a
> substantial leap without internal discussions within Wikimedia Bangladesh,
> and it is puzzling that the chapter appears to be unaware of this. It is
> worth noting that there are allegations of off-wiki harassment against at
> least one of these three UAP UG contact persons. Additionally, Wikimedia
> Bangladesh is facing backlash within the local community.
>
> 4. Operating an organization without formal recognition from Affcom does
> not present a fundamental obstacle. I, myself, am leading two non-affiliate
> organized groups and believe that these non-affiliate groups are essential
> to make the movement more distributed and transparent. But, to a lot of
> people, getting recognized as affiliate leaders is rewarding enough which
> may set unrealistic expectations. Personally, I am not a big fan of the
> affiliate structure based on my observations in the local movement, as they
> sometimes prioritize political territoriality over productive endeavors.
> From my experience, it appears that affiliates function as the sole
> authority within a designated territory determined by Affcom, and they are
> prepared to safeguard their sovereignty over that territory (including the
> onwiki spaces covered by the language or culture of the territory) at any
> cost. Regarding Bodhisattwa's expectations, it is improbable that Wikimedia
> Bangladesh, "being a decentralized organization and with good community
> connection and support", would extend assistance to other organizations
> within their territory. Unfortunately, this local affiliate has a troubling
> history of suppressing emerging leadership in order to maintain control
> over its perceived "territory."
>
> 5. I am concerned that the emergence of this UG is an inevitable outcome
> of long-standing tensions that have remained concealed within the region
> for decades. It's more of what we can see with the naked eye. The South
> Asian community has complex dynamics that are tricky to figure out. There
> are currently several conflicting parties here without anyone to mediate.
> WMF couldn't solve the legal complexities of sending grants here even after
> working for more than a decade. The conflict was previously managed due to
> the professional support extended by WMF in recent years. But WMF started
> destroying that capacity themselves through the so-called "budget and staff
> cuts" recently. There is literally no expert in the WMF with in-depth
> knowledge about the socio-political realities of this region, which is
> essential for mediating between these confronting parties and continuing
> the resource flow and professional support here. Consequently, conflict
> appears to be unavoidable.
>
> I have made an attempt to articulate some of the shared perspectives held
> by many local volunteers that often remain unvoiced on the global stage,
> where they need to be heard. You may 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Mrb Rafi]

Well, this is strange and interesting at the same time. There is a lot
going on inside South Asian communities that have been hidden from the
world and have started to surface now.

I have made an effort to analyze and document my observations regarding the
"WAP UG" and have outlined them in the following list:

1. The primary concern is undoubtedly the non-compliance of this UG with
the standard Affcom procedures, indicating either a lack of capacity or
willingness to adhere to the requisite rules for the initiation of a UG.

2. The home wiki for all three contact persons listed on the meta page
happens to be bnwiki. Notably, two of them are part of the bnwiki admin
panel, which comprises a total of 13 editors. bnwiki serves as the home
wiki for six out of the eight members affiliated with this UG also.

3. One of the three contact persons has explicitly stated on their user
page that they are an associate member of Wikimedia Bangladesh.
Furthermore, the other two individuals have close affiliations with the
local chapter in Bangladesh. Their names can be found in the CoT
 for the implementation of the local Wikimania in
2022. Those of us involved in the local movement, including myself, are
aware that these three individuals constitute a significant portion of the
capable workforce within Wikimedia Bangladesh. It is very unlikely that the
local chapter's three most active and leading organizers would make such a
substantial leap without internal discussions within Wikimedia Bangladesh,
and it is puzzling that the chapter appears to be unaware of this. It is
worth noting that there are allegations of off-wiki harassment against at
least one of these three UAP UG contact persons. Additionally, Wikimedia
Bangladesh is facing backlash within the local community.

4. Operating an organization without formal recognition from Affcom does
not present a fundamental obstacle. I, myself, am leading two non-affiliate
organized groups and believe that these non-affiliate groups are essential
to make the movement more distributed and transparent. But, to a lot of
people, getting recognized as affiliate leaders is rewarding enough which
may set unrealistic expectations. Personally, I am not a big fan of the
affiliate structure based on my observations in the local movement, as they
sometimes prioritize political territoriality over productive endeavors.
>From my experience, it appears that affiliates function as the sole
authority within a designated territory determined by Affcom, and they are
prepared to safeguard their sovereignty over that territory (including the
onwiki spaces covered by the language or culture of the territory) at any
cost. Regarding Bodhisattwa's expectations, it is improbable that Wikimedia
Bangladesh, "being a decentralized organization and with good community
connection and support", would extend assistance to other organizations
within their territory. Unfortunately, this local affiliate has a troubling
history of suppressing emerging leadership in order to maintain control
over its perceived "territory."

5. I am concerned that the emergence of this UG is an inevitable outcome of
long-standing tensions that have remained concealed within the region for
decades. It's more of what we can see with the naked eye. The South Asian
community has complex dynamics that are tricky to figure out. There are
currently several conflicting parties here without anyone to mediate. WMF
couldn't solve the legal complexities of sending grants here even after
working for more than a decade. The conflict was previously managed due to
the professional support extended by WMF in recent years. But WMF started
destroying that capacity themselves through the so-called "budget and staff
cuts" recently. There is literally no expert in the WMF with in-depth
knowledge about the socio-political realities of this region, which is
essential for mediating between these confronting parties and continuing
the resource flow and professional support here. Consequently, conflict
appears to be unavoidable.

I have made an attempt to articulate some of the shared perspectives held
by many local volunteers that often remain unvoiced on the global stage,
where they need to be heard. You may understand that I won't be able to
present everything, but I have tried my best while staying within the
boundary that preserves my safety. Hope it helps to understand the depth of
the situation.

Best,
Rafi
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Bodhisattwa]

Hello Aishik,

The name of the group suggests that it is a geographical group encompassing
entire South Asia and ESEAP region which overlaps with all the geographical
affiliates of the region including the ESEAP hub. Whether this group tries
to be complimentary or not, the group directly comes into conflict with all
the affiliates of the region w.r.t. operating area by creating parallel
structure in the region and dividing our valuable workforce, which we
cannot afford.

The core members of the group is comprised of volunteers from Bangladesh
only, which already have a chapter there. There are almost no
representations from the remaining part of Asia and hence the ambition to
become a representative organization of such a large geographical area
makes no sense.

Majority of the affiliates of the region and ESEAP hub were created after
long discussions within the community for months, if not years. On the
contrary, this group had not engaged in any conversation with the existing
geographical affiliates of the region to understand if they are already
working with the same vision of this group and if the existence of it as an
official affiliate is needed at all.

I think, if the core members of the group can engage with their local
affiliate i.e. Wikimedia Bangladesh chapter to run their projects together
with them without creating a parallel affiliate, that would be much better.
I am sure, being a decentralized organization and with good community
connection and support, our friends in Wikimedia Bangladesh will be more
than happy to encourage your vision of work and find ways to accommodate
your plans.

I also hope, AffCom will consult all the geographical affiliates of the
vast Asian region, which this group likes to cover, before coming to any
conclusion to recognize this group as an affiliate. The process to create
user groups were made loose and lax for some good reasons, but there needs
to be a well-written policy to assess overlaps and conflicts with existing
structures before submitting application of recognition.

Regards,
Bodhisattwa





On Thu, May 25, 2023, 20:03 Aishik Rehman  wrote:

> Dear Bodhisattwa and Butch Bustria,
>
> Thank you for your responses and expressing your concerns regarding the
> establishment of WAP User Group. I appreciate your input and would like to
> provide further clarification on the matter.
>
> Firstly, I want to emphasize that we have acknowledged the significance of
> engaging with the Wikimedia Affiliations Committee (AffCom) and have
> initiated contact with them to seek guidance and ensure that we align with
> established processes and protocols. We understand the importance of
> following the correct procedures and conducting thorough evaluations.
>
> It is crucial to note that at this stage, our user group has not been
> officially recognized by AffCom. We are currently in the initial stages of
> establishing our presence and are actively seeking guidance and support
> from relevant committees to ensure a collaborative and harmonious approach
> within the Wikimedia ecosystem.
>
> We recognize the existing user groups and chapters operating in Asian
> countries and understand the need for coordination, consensus, and
> collaboration with them. Our aim is to complement and work alongside these
> affiliations, rather than duplicate or create conflicts. We are committed
> to fostering positive relationships and avoiding any misunderstandings or
> overlaps.
>
> To provide clarity and transparency, we have shared relevant links to our
> project page on Meta-Wiki, which outlines our goals, mission, and
> activities as a potential user group. It is essential to note that the
> project page serves as a platform to present our intentions and engage in
> constructive discussions with the community. We are committed to addressing
> any concerns and ensuring that all perspectives are heard and considered.
>
> We appreciate your concerns and valuable insights and assure you that we
> are actively engaging with AffCom to seek their guidance and expertise. Our
> intention is to align ourselves with established processes and work
> collaboratively with existing affiliations in the region.
>
> We invite you to participate in the ongoing discussions and provide your
> valuable feedback. We are open to further dialogue and are committed to
> finding common ground and fostering regional cooperation.
>
> Thank you for your attention and understanding. We look forward to
> continued engagement and productive discussions.
>
> Best regards,
> Aishik Rehman
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Butch Bustria]

Hi Aishik,

I understand your intent but I believe you should consider the practicality
of choosing a group name. I suggest you establish a clear network first and
build trust of your intended target.

We all wish the general public to have a simple understanding of how our
Wikimedia community is structured. Creating a supergroup that overlaps to 3
regional hubs creates confusion not just to our existing community members
we try to entice as well as institutions, partners, agencies and most of
all our general public.

ESEAP is hosting Wikimania 2023 and we do not put all our advocacy,
sacrifices, meetings, lengthy discussions over 9 years, and hard work in
making a cohesive regional community to waste because people starting to
doubt and get confused on a misleading community structure you are building.

I encourage you to seriously do a practical feasibility study and research
if you have technical, human resource capacity on going to this path.
Rather than creating collaboration, this creates tension.

Moreover, "WAP" is also used by *W*iki *A*dvocates *P*hilippines.

I know your intention is noble but please, don't cross the line. Don't
create conflict.


Kind regards,

*Butch Bustria*
Wikimedia East, South East Asia and the Pacific


On Thu, May 25, 2023, 10:33 PM Aishik Rehman  wrote:

> Dear Bodhisattwa and Butch Bustria,
>
> Thank you for your responses and expressing your concerns regarding the
> establishment of WAP User Group. I appreciate your input and would like to
> provide further clarification on the matter.
>
> Firstly, I want to emphasize that we have acknowledged the significance of
> engaging with the Wikimedia Affiliations Committee (AffCom) and have
> initiated contact with them to seek guidance and ensure that we align with
> established processes and protocols. We understand the importance of
> following the correct procedures and conducting thorough evaluations.
>
> It is crucial to note that at this stage, our user group has not been
> officially recognized by AffCom. We are currently in the initial stages of
> establishing our presence and are actively seeking guidance and support
> from relevant committees to ensure a collaborative and harmonious approach
> within the Wikimedia ecosystem.
>
> We recognize the existing user groups and chapters operating in Asian
> countries and understand the need for coordination, consensus, and
> collaboration with them. Our aim is to complement and work alongside these
> affiliations, rather than duplicate or create conflicts. We are committed
> to fostering positive relationships and avoiding any misunderstandings or
> overlaps.
>
> To provide clarity and transparency, we have shared relevant links to our
> project page on Meta-Wiki, which outlines our goals, mission, and
> activities as a potential user group. It is essential to note that the
> project page serves as a platform to present our intentions and engage in
> constructive discussions with the community. We are committed to addressing
> any concerns and ensuring that all perspectives are heard and considered.
>
> We appreciate your concerns and valuable insights and assure you that we
> are actively engaging with AffCom to seek their guidance and expertise. Our
> intention is to align ourselves with established processes and work
> collaboratively with existing affiliations in the region.
>
> We invite you to participate in the ongoing discussions and provide your
> valuable feedback. We are open to further dialogue and are committed to
> finding common ground and fostering regional cooperation.
>
> Thank you for your attention and understanding. We look forward to
> continued engagement and productive discussions.
>
> Best regards,
> Aishik Rehman
> ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Aishik Rehman]

Dear Bodhisattwa and Butch Bustria,

Thank you for your responses and expressing your concerns regarding the 
establishment of WAP User Group. I appreciate your input and would like to 
provide further clarification on the matter.

Firstly, I want to emphasize that we have acknowledged the significance of 
engaging with the Wikimedia Affiliations Committee (AffCom) and have initiated 
contact with them to seek guidance and ensure that we align with established 
processes and protocols. We understand the importance of following the correct 
procedures and conducting thorough evaluations.

It is crucial to note that at this stage, our user group has not been 
officially recognized by AffCom. We are currently in the initial stages of 
establishing our presence and are actively seeking guidance and support from 
relevant committees to ensure a collaborative and harmonious approach within 
the Wikimedia ecosystem.

We recognize the existing user groups and chapters operating in Asian countries 
and understand the need for coordination, consensus, and collaboration with 
them. Our aim is to complement and work alongside these affiliations, rather 
than duplicate or create conflicts. We are committed to fostering positive 
relationships and avoiding any misunderstandings or overlaps.

To provide clarity and transparency, we have shared relevant links to our 
project page on Meta-Wiki, which outlines our goals, mission, and activities as 
a potential user group. It is essential to note that the project page serves as 
a platform to present our intentions and engage in constructive discussions 
with the community. We are committed to addressing any concerns and ensuring 
that all perspectives are heard and considered.

We appreciate your concerns and valuable insights and assure you that we are 
actively engaging with AffCom to seek their guidance and expertise. Our 
intention is to align ourselves with established processes and work 
collaboratively with existing affiliations in the region.

We invite you to participate in the ongoing discussions and provide your 
valuable feedback. We are open to further dialogue and are committed to finding 
common ground and fostering regional cooperation.

Thank you for your attention and understanding. We look forward to continued 
engagement and productive discussions.

Best regards,
Aishik Rehman
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Aishik Rehman]

Dear Bodhisattwa and Butch Bustria,

Thank you for your responses and expressing your concerns regarding the 
establishment of WAP User Group. I appreciate your input and would like to 
provide further clarification on the matter.

Firstly, I want to emphasize that we have acknowledged the significance of 
engaging with the Wikimedia Affiliations Committee (AffCom) and have initiated 
contact with them to seek guidance and ensure that we align with established 
processes and protocols. We understand the importance of following the correct 
procedures and conducting thorough evaluations.

It is crucial to note that at this stage, our user group has not been 
officially recognized by AffCom. We are currently in the initial stages of 
establishing our presence and are actively seeking guidance and support from 
relevant committees to ensure a collaborative and harmonious approach within 
the Wikimedia ecosystem.

We recognize the existing user groups and chapters operating in Asian countries 
and understand the need for coordination, consensus, and collaboration with 
them. Our aim is to complement and work alongside these affiliations, rather 
than duplicate or create conflicts. We are committed to fostering positive 
relationships and avoiding any misunderstandings or overlaps.

To provide clarity and transparency, we have shared relevant links to our 
project page on Meta-Wiki, which outlines our goals, mission, and activities as 
a potential user group. It is essential to note that the project page serves as 
a platform to present our intentions and engage in constructive discussions 
with the community. We are committed to addressing any concerns and ensuring 
that all perspectives are heard and considered.

We appreciate your concerns and valuable insights and assure you that we are 
actively engaging with AffCom to seek their guidance and expertise. Our 
intention is to align ourselves with established processes and work 
collaboratively with existing affiliations in the region.

We invite you to participate in the ongoing discussions and provide your 
valuable feedback. We are open to further dialogue and are committed to finding 
common ground and fostering regional cooperation.

Thank you for your attention and understanding. We look forward to continued 
engagement and productive discussions.

Best regards,
Aishik Rehman
Volunteer, Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Ameisenigel]

Hello.

Maybe there is some kind of a misunderstanding: We have many user groups
and not all of them are recognized user groups.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups says "Recognition
from the Affiliations Committee allows a group to apply for using the
Wikimedia trademarks and to get certain grants; however, recognition is not
required to do any of the work typical user groups do or might do, it is an
optional extra step with connected benefits and some requirements."

Best regards
Ameisenigel

Bodhisattwa  schrieb am Do., 25. Mai 2023,
07:04:

> Hello Aishik,
>
> I cannot find any evidence that this is a legitimate user group recognized
> through Affcom process. I also could not find any evidence if you have
> engaged affiliates of the region and consulted for conflict and overlap. It
> looks nothing more than a personal endeavour to me.
>
> For your kind information, there are already several user groups and
> chapters operating in Asian countries including a regional hub in ESEAP. If
> we need something different for the entire Asia Pacific region, I am sure
> the affiliates will come together to have consensus and form such
> organization in the future.
>
>  I would like to request AffCom to look into the matter and delete the
> meta page, so that no misunderstanding or conflict arises out of this.
>
>
> Regards,
> Bodhisattwa
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 25, 2023, 09:44 Butch Bustria  wrote:
>
>> Dear Aishik,
>>
>> Kindly consult with Wikimedia Affiliations Committee (AFFCOM). Please
>> perform a valid case study before engaging to this.
>>
>> There is also the Wikimedia Regional Hubs being discussed within the
>> Movement Strategy. ESEAP is one of them.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> *Butch Bustria*
>> Coordinator
>> East, Southeast Asia and the Pacific
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 25, 2023, 11:59 AM Aishik Rehman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> We are excited to announce the establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia
>>> Pacific User Group. Our goal is to preserve endangered languages, cultures,
>>> folklore, and traditional knowledge of the Asia-Pacific region through
>>> Wikimedia projects.
>>>
>>> We are dedicated to fostering regional connections and supporting local
>>> Wikimedia communities across Asia and the Asia-Pacific. Through
>>> collaboration, advocacy, and knowledge-sharing, we aim to empower these
>>> communities to effectively serve their regions and promote the values of
>>> free knowledge, open access, and community engagement.
>>>
>>> We invite you to join us in our mission. For more information about our
>>> user group, please visit our Meta-Wiki page *¹*.
>>>
>>> Thank you for your attention.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Aishik Rehman
>>> Volunteer, Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group
>>>
>>> ¹: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WAP
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/RD4UZNOTGXPJE3F7LIZUCKY6OUB7GCIE/
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>>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Bodhisattwa]

Hello Aishik,

I cannot find any evidence that this is a legitimate user group recognized
through Affcom process. I also could not find any evidence if you have
engaged affiliates of the region and consulted for conflict and overlap. It
looks nothing more than a personal endeavour to me.

For your kind information, there are already several user groups and
chapters operating in Asian countries including a regional hub in ESEAP. If
we need something different for the entire Asia Pacific region, I am sure
the affiliates will come together to have consensus and form such
organization in the future.

 I would like to request AffCom to look into the matter and delete the meta
page, so that no misunderstanding or conflict arises out of this.


Regards,
Bodhisattwa




On Thu, May 25, 2023, 09:44 Butch Bustria  wrote:

> Dear Aishik,
>
> Kindly consult with Wikimedia Affiliations Committee (AFFCOM). Please
> perform a valid case study before engaging to this.
>
> There is also the Wikimedia Regional Hubs being discussed within the
> Movement Strategy. ESEAP is one of them.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> *Butch Bustria*
> Coordinator
> East, Southeast Asia and the Pacific
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 25, 2023, 11:59 AM Aishik Rehman 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> We are excited to announce the establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia
>> Pacific User Group. Our goal is to preserve endangered languages, cultures,
>> folklore, and traditional knowledge of the Asia-Pacific region through
>> Wikimedia projects.
>>
>> We are dedicated to fostering regional connections and supporting local
>> Wikimedia communities across Asia and the Asia-Pacific. Through
>> collaboration, advocacy, and knowledge-sharing, we aim to empower these
>> communities to effectively serve their regions and promote the values of
>> free knowledge, open access, and community engagement.
>>
>> We invite you to join us in our mission. For more information about our
>> user group, please visit our Meta-Wiki page *¹*.
>>
>> Thank you for your attention.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Aishik Rehman
>> Volunteer, Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group
>>
>> ¹: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WAP
>> ___
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>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/RD4UZNOTGXPJE3F7LIZUCKY6OUB7GCIE/
>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group

[Butch Bustria]

Dear Aishik,

Kindly consult with Wikimedia Affiliations Committee (AFFCOM). Please
perform a valid case study before engaging to this.

There is also the Wikimedia Regional Hubs being discussed within the
Movement Strategy. ESEAP is one of them.

Kind regards,

*Butch Bustria*
Coordinator
East, Southeast Asia and the Pacific



On Thu, May 25, 2023, 11:59 AM Aishik Rehman  wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> We are excited to announce the establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia
> Pacific User Group. Our goal is to preserve endangered languages, cultures,
> folklore, and traditional knowledge of the Asia-Pacific region through
> Wikimedia projects.
>
> We are dedicated to fostering regional connections and supporting local
> Wikimedia communities across Asia and the Asia-Pacific. Through
> collaboration, advocacy, and knowledge-sharing, we aim to empower these
> communities to effectively serve their regions and promote the values of
> free knowledge, open access, and community engagement.
>
> We invite you to join us in our mission. For more information about our
> user group, please visit our Meta-Wiki page *¹*.
>
> Thank you for your attention.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Aishik Rehman
> Volunteer, Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group
>
> ¹: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WAP
> ___
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