Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
Sorry folks. That page has been deleted. Wikimedia Australia has been working on a process for proposals, and this proposal did not follow the process. The committee has talked a lot about allowing non-members to edit the wiki, and I would love a good proposal, but the one that privatemusings put up was an empty proposal. Non members can explain here why they want to be able to edit our wiki; we are listening. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've written a proposal on the official wiki to allow registration, and hence editing, by non-members. It's here; http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:Open_WMAU_Wiki_editing I (obviously!) support such a move, and feel it would bring considerable benefits to us as an organisation. There are various models out there (some approaching 10 years old) which demonstrate the success in principle of an open editing model, and I hope you might agree that we should give it a go :-) cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
oops, my apologies for not having followed the process I'll do my best to read up on how to follow it properly, and then give it another go. The page basically just suggested that WMAU should allow registration, and therefore editing, by anyone so minded - part of my rationale is that we have a bit of a problem with engagement and participation - hence asking for folk currently disengaged, and non-participative to pipe up mightn't be the only way forward ;-) The bottom line is essentially one of principle, and our current (apparent) position does continue to surprise (and yeah - amuse a wee bit) - meanwhile, as I said, I'll redo my homework on how to do a proposal and avoid page deletion. cheers, Peter, PM. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:43 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry folks. That page has been deleted. Wikimedia Australia has been working on a process for proposals, and this proposal did not follow the process. The committee has talked a lot about allowing non-members to edit the wiki, and I would love a good proposal, but the one that privatemusings put up was an empty proposal. Non members can explain here why they want to be able to edit our wiki; we are listening. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've written a proposal on the official wiki to allow registration, and hence editing, by non-members. It's here; http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:Open_WMAU_Wiki_editing I (obviously!) support such a move, and feel it would bring considerable benefits to us as an organisation. There are various models out there (some approaching 10 years old) which demonstrate the success in principle of an open editing model, and I hope you might agree that we should give it a go :-) cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
ps. I think one of the key aspects to the proposals process that I bungled on is that an idea should have the support of at least 2 members before being formally raised on the wiki could I ask if any member out there is minded to support the notion? Hope so! cheers, Peter, PM. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:05 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: oops, my apologies for not having followed the process I'll do my best to read up on how to follow it properly, and then give it another go. The page basically just suggested that WMAU should allow registration, and therefore editing, by anyone so minded - part of my rationale is that we have a bit of a problem with engagement and participation - hence asking for folk currently disengaged, and non-participative to pipe up mightn't be the only way forward ;-) The bottom line is essentially one of principle, and our current (apparent) position does continue to surprise (and yeah - amuse a wee bit) - meanwhile, as I said, I'll redo my homework on how to do a proposal and avoid page deletion. cheers, Peter, PM. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:43 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry folks. That page has been deleted. Wikimedia Australia has been working on a process for proposals, and this proposal did not follow the process. The committee has talked a lot about allowing non-members to edit the wiki, and I would love a good proposal, but the one that privatemusings put up was an empty proposal. Non members can explain here why they want to be able to edit our wiki; we are listening. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've written a proposal on the official wiki to allow registration, and hence editing, by non-members. It's here; http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:Open_WMAU_Wiki_editing I (obviously!) support such a move, and feel it would bring considerable benefits to us as an organisation. There are various models out there (some approaching 10 years old) which demonstrate the success in principle of an open editing model, and I hope you might agree that we should give it a go :-) cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: I've written a proposal on the official wiki to allow registration, and hence editing, by non-members. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:20 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: that is not the process PM, and the process is not yet public so please stop discussing it here. Would a separate wiki be a better idea? That way the committee wouldn't need to worry about the unofficial content being confused for anything they'd approved. And the community wouldn't need to worry about their pages being removed for being in violation of a non-public policy they weren't aware of. Angela ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Angela bees...@gmail.com wrote: Would a separate wiki be a better idea? That way the committee wouldn't need to worry about the unofficial content being confused for anything they'd approved. And the community wouldn't need to worry about their pages being removed for being in violation of a non-public policy they weren't aware of. Angela (As a non member) I think that would be pointless and possibly worse, It seems stupid to spread content access two installs just for that reasons, We could use multipul namespaces then protect a namespace from editing[1] to anyone apart from a members group. -Peachey [1]. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access#Restrict_editing_of_an_entire_namespace ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
Non members can explain here why they want to be able to edit our wiki; we are listening. I'm not engaging in this debate again. It's been argued to death already. It's ridiculously obvious to me why it WMAU should be editable, and the fact that it still isn't tells me that WMAU is either moving at a glacial pace or is being run by people who simply do not share my values. Peter Halasz User:Pengo ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Peter Halasz qub...@gmail.com wrote: Non members can explain here why they want to be able to edit our wiki; we are listening. I'm not engaging in this debate again. It's been argued to death already. It's ridiculously obvious to me why it WMAU should be editable, and the fact that it still isn't tells me that WMAU is either moving at a glacial pace or is being run by people who simply do not share my values. I agree it has been discussed to death. Almost everyone agrees that it should be open, so discussing that again is pointless. However use-cases are not pointless; knowing what non-members what to do *now* means we focus on permitting those things *now*. If non-members just want to comment on proposals, we can work out how to allow talk page access. If non-members want to develop proposals, we can give accounts to non-members we trust for this purpose. A more basic question is why are non-members still non-members? If it is cost, perhaps we should change our membership fees. In the past there has been disagreement about how open our website should be, and how we administrate being open. Being 'open' introduces new problems and new workloads, and we need to have a solution to those problems. My biggest concern is that open editing is going to be left for the committee to administrate. The committee should not be doing this; it will result in us being dragged to court. The membership has not shown a great deal of interest in helping build the wiki over the past few years. If a member steps up and _commits_ to be the 'crat' / 'webmaster', and that person asks for open editing, the committee *will* vote on it. Another option is for the committee to hand over the responsibility of managing the website to one of the ordinary members, and to allow them to manage it how they see fit. Do we want new non-member accounts to continue to go via ConfirmAccount? [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmAccount IMO, the answer is yes; we definitely do not want unhappy Wikipedia subjects to be allowed to have accounts and be able to rant on our website. If so, what is our policy on who can have accounts and their usernames? Who is going to decide what content is acceptable or not? These questions are just the tip of the iceberg. -- John Vandenberg ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
Hi, The part I'm not sure of is what parts of the Wiki people would wish to change. There are sections which clearly can't be publicly editable, such as the rules and minutes, but I'm assuming that there are other sections - perhaps events? - which would be of interest to non-members for editing. I don't have a philosophical problem with opening it up, but given the complexities (in particular the need to protect a large portion of the site), I'd like to see which areas are intended to be developed, as it might make it easier to justify or work out a direction to take. Adam. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
A more basic question is why are non-members still non-members? I have not renewed my membership partly over this issue. (As I said previously: it shows WMAU is either moving at a glacial pace or is being run by people who simply do not share my values.) My biggest concern is that open editing is going to be left for the committee to administrate. If the discussion has really moved from why but to how, then can I suggest using flagged revisions? Seems to be perfectly suited, and would save non-members the ridiculous bureaucracy of having to be voted in as a webmaster before fixing a typo, while at the same time preserving pages which you don't wish to ever be seen vandalised by partner organisations. Discussion pages should of course be editable by all. The suggestion for users to request a change through some procedure on the talk page strikes me as being rather inelegant to say the least. Who is going to decide what content is acceptable or not? I'll come back when you've worked out how to build a community instead of a bureaucracy. Bye ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:56 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: Another option is for non-members to be restricted to talk pages on the main wiki. This means they cant edit pages, but they can initiate and participate in discussions about them. Talk pages shouldn't contain anything official. My view is that the wiki itself is a marketing and communication tool. It advertises WMAU to the world at large while also providing communication to members (not disimilar to a newsletter). I agree that opening talk pages could be worthwhile. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
