Re: [Wikimediaau-l] [wmau:members] RE: Annual Plan 2014: instructional videos and the larger question of SMART-vs-BHAG
hmm many of those will need to be redone/duplicated with the changes to visual editor On 21 July 2013 14:14, Kerry Kilner k.kil...@uq.edu.au wrote: Thanks for this reference, Leigh! Kerry Kilner On 21/07/2013, at 3:59 PM, Leigh Blackall leighblack...@gmail.com wrote: There are a few on the Wikiversity page I maintain for workshops: http://en.m.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikipedia_editing_workshops http://en.m.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikipedia_editing_workshops If need be I'll forward a YouTube playlist On 21/07/2013 3:03 PM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raym...@gmail.com kerry.raym...@gmail.com wrote: Leigh, feel free to point me at these instructional videos (there’s stuff I would love to learn personally as well as making those links more available to others). I did go looking once and found some on a Wikipedia site (probably on outreach, can’t remember) but they seemed to be all broken links. ** ** Certainly we would not be proposing to reinvent the wheel if there was perfectly good material already there. There might be some minor “Australian” content we could add but it would be very minor (mainly about referencing key Austrlian resources) ** ** Kerry ** ** -- *From:* Leigh Blackall [mailto: leighblack...@gmail.com leighblack...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Sunday, 21 July 2013 8:57 AM *To:* kerry.raym...@gmail.comkerry.raym...@gmail.com *Cc:* wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org; WMAu members *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Annual Plan 2014: instructional videos and the larger question of SMART-vs-BHAG ** ** Is this suggestion because we are dissatisfied with the dozens if not hundreds and thousands of instructional videos already available? Maybe the suggestion is for Australian accent and language versions? A series in an Indigenous language would be remarkable! Or perhaps the suggestion is to create videos about Australia related projects and interest groups? In which case its a good suggestion. I for one would benefit from a video overview of the things going on. I have a few videos on my channel outlining Wikiversity work. And know of others looking at Wikinews. On 21/07/2013 8:44 AM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raym...@gmail.com kerry.raym...@gmail.com wrote: In http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal_talk:2014_Annual_Plan#Proposal http://www.wikimedia.org.au//wiki/Proposal_talk:2014_Annual_Plan#Proposal Tony1 also suggests instructional videos to reinforce edit training and/or to replace it. He asks is “is it too ambitious”? Because of the WMF’s enthusiasm for metrics, it does drive our thinking towards “low-hanging fruit” projects. Edit training workshops are a good example of this “low hanging” fruit problem. We know we can run a certain number of edit training sessions, we know that with the help of our GLAM partners, we can probably get a certain attendance, we know that attendees seem to enjoy their day of edit training (based on feedback forms) – so that’s a nice measurable success for a nice project that we should keep doing. Could we put the effort instead into instructional videos? Obviously instructional videos could potentially reach a massive international audience, far greater than maybe the 100-200 people we can train each year through workshops, but maybe they would be absolutely zero downloads/views. So the risk/return profile of videos is much higher (we can both succeed and fail more spectacularly) than for edit training. Also we struggle to find volunteers among WMAU members and the Australian WP community for our edit training workshops as our library partners like to run these events on weekdays (incompatible with people’s work lives). Would we find it more-or-less easy to get people to prepare instructional videos which they could at 3am in their pyjamas if they wanted? I don’t know. What are the relative costs? Well, edit training generally has travel costs, but we’d probably need to spend some money on professional tools for making instructional videos (screen-capture and video-editing software) and perhaps some training on how to use them effectively. So what do we do? Low-risk/return edit training workshop or higher-risk/return edit training videos? Of course in the ideal world of infinite resources we can do both, but we don’t live in that world (“everything costs something” as my former Vice-Chancellor used to say).* *** Aside. In regard to edit training in any form, we have a practical problem in relation to the progressive rollout of increasing functionality of the visual editor. This impacts on our existing edit training workshop materials (slides and manuals) and would impact on the preparation of videos. But my question here is more philosophical about the risk/return model of what we do. Kerry
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] [wmau:members] RE: Annual Plan 2014: instructional videos and the larger question of SMART-vs-BHAG
Yep, the paradox of investing in software instruction by video. Best stimulate user generated video in YouTube. On 21/07/2013 4:17 PM, Gnangarra gnanga...@gmail.com wrote: hmm many of those will need to be redone/duplicated with the changes to visual editor On 21 July 2013 14:14, Kerry Kilner k.kil...@uq.edu.au wrote: Thanks for this reference, Leigh! Kerry Kilner On 21/07/2013, at 3:59 PM, Leigh Blackall leighblack...@gmail.com wrote: There are a few on the Wikiversity page I maintain for workshops: http://en.m.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikipedia_editing_workshops http://en.m.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikipedia_editing_workshops If need be I'll forward a YouTube playlist On 21/07/2013 3:03 PM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raym...@gmail.com kerry.raym...@gmail.com wrote: Leigh, feel free to point me at these instructional videos (there’s stuff I would love to learn personally as well as making those links more available to others). I did go looking once and found some on a Wikipedia site (probably on outreach, can’t remember) but they seemed to be all broken links. ** ** Certainly we would not be proposing to reinvent the wheel if there was perfectly good material already there. There might be some minor “Australian” content we could add but it would be very minor (mainly about referencing key Austrlian resources) ** ** Kerry ** ** -- *From:* Leigh Blackall [mailto: leighblack...@gmail.com leighblack...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Sunday, 21 July 2013 8:57 AM *To:* kerry.raym...@gmail.comkerry.raym...@gmail.com *Cc:* wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org; WMAu members *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Annual Plan 2014: instructional videos and the larger question of SMART-vs-BHAG ** ** Is this suggestion because we are dissatisfied with the dozens if not hundreds and thousands of instructional videos already available? Maybe the suggestion is for Australian accent and language versions? A series in an Indigenous language would be remarkable! Or perhaps the suggestion is to create videos about Australia related projects and interest groups? In which case its a good suggestion. I for one would benefit from a video overview of the things going on. I have a few videos on my channel outlining Wikiversity work. And know of others looking at Wikinews. On 21/07/2013 8:44 AM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raym...@gmail.com kerry.raym...@gmail.com wrote: In http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal_talk:2014_Annual_Plan#Proposal http://www.wikimedia.org.au//wiki/Proposal_talk:2014_Annual_Plan#Proposal Tony1 also suggests instructional videos to reinforce edit training and/or to replace it. He asks is “is it too ambitious”? Because of the WMF’s enthusiasm for metrics, it does drive our thinking towards “low-hanging fruit” projects. Edit training workshops are a good example of this “low hanging” fruit problem. We know we can run a certain number of edit training sessions, we know that with the help of our GLAM partners, we can probably get a certain attendance, we know that attendees seem to enjoy their day of edit training (based on feedback forms) – so that’s a nice measurable success for a nice project that we should keep doing. Could we put the effort instead into instructional videos? Obviously instructional videos could potentially reach a massive international audience, far greater than maybe the 100-200 people we can train each year through workshops, but maybe they would be absolutely zero downloads/views. So the risk/return profile of videos is much higher (we can both succeed and fail more spectacularly) than for edit training. Also we struggle to find volunteers among WMAU members and the Australian WP community for our edit training workshops as our library partners like to run these events on weekdays (incompatible with people’s work lives). Would we find it more-or-less easy to get people to prepare instructional videos which they could at 3am in their pyjamas if they wanted? I don’t know. What are the relative costs? Well, edit training generally has travel costs, but we’d probably need to spend some money on professional tools for making instructional videos (screen-capture and video-editing software) and perhaps some training on how to use them effectively. So what do we do? Low-risk/return edit training workshop or higher-risk/return edit training videos? Of course in the ideal world of infinite resources we can do both, but we don’t live in that world (“everything costs something” as my former Vice-Chancellor used to say). Aside. In regard to edit training in any form, we have a practical problem in relation to the progressive rollout of increasing functionality of the visual editor. This impacts on our existing edit training workshop materials
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] [wmau:members] RE: Annual Plan 2014: instructional videos and the larger question of SMART-vs-BHAG
Yes, this. Unfortunately a great deal of documentation has been made obsolete with one fell stroke (not that that's a reason not to do it, it just creates a whole bunch of work for us). Cheers, Craig On 21 July 2013 16:17, Gnangarra gnanga...@gmail.com wrote: hmm many of those will need to be redone/duplicated with the changes to visual editor ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] [wmau:members] RE: Annual Plan 2014: instructional videos and the larger question of SMART-vs-BHAG
it never hurts to revisit/renew training videos from time to time anyway, the problem that we face at the moment is the visual editor isnt stable nor is it complete so making videos right now is fraught with them also being made obsolete as well. On 21 July 2013 19:43, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote: Yes, this. Unfortunately a great deal of documentation has been made obsolete with one fell stroke (not that that's a reason not to do it, it just creates a whole bunch of work for us). Cheers, Craig On 21 July 2013 16:17, Gnangarra gnanga...@gmail.com wrote: hmm many of those will need to be redone/duplicated with the changes to visual editor -- GN. Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com Gn. Blogg: http://gnangarra.wordpress.com ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] [wmau:members] Re: Annual Plan 2014: instructional videos and the larger question of SMART-vs-BHAG
The production people I work with at ABC Open maybe persuaded to do the videos for us, they already have the reach we'd need... On 21 July 2013 13:18, Tony Souter to...@iinet.net.au wrote: Someone mentioned the social aspect of face-to-face edit training vs professionally produced training videos. Face-to-face can be an important aspect, but will always be limited in scope and relatively expensive (as Craig has pointed out, especially for a country like Australia). There are two limitations in scope for face-to-face training, I think: the sheer volume of skills, dimensions to WP editing, that we'd like to get across – when there's only so much you can fit into a single session, or even multiple sessions; and (2) the fact that WMF sites need numbers ... * lots* of new editors, more than we can pump out in occasional room-based events. And looking at Australian-related articles, we need *lots* of new Australian editors. And it would be nice to reach out to people in Australian regions, and the Asia-Pacific (in English), whom we just couldn't possibly involve in face-to-face training. The trainer in me is also aware that conveying skills and knowledge in more than one mode is often very reinforcing for recipients – face-to-face *and* online vid *and* even online/skype mentoring? BTW, WMAU face-to-face sessions in a number of cities are going to be funded by the Australian Research Council as part of the Linkage project on disability in sport (John Vandenberg is organising, I believe). As for specifically Australian content/angles, they're not essential: just showing the way generically for the rest of the WM movement would be a good thing to do. T On 21/07/2013, at 3:03 PM, Kerry Raymond wrote: ** ** Leigh, feel free to point me at these instructional videos (there’s stuff I would love to learn personally as well as making those links more available to others). I did go looking once and found some on a Wikipedia site (probably on outreach, can’t remember) but they seemed to be all broken links. ** ** Certainly we would not be proposing to reinvent the wheel if there was perfectly good material already there. There might be some minor “Australian” content we could add but it would be very minor (mainly about referencing key Austrlian resources) ** ** Kerry ** ** -- *From:* Leigh Blackall [mailto:leighblack...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Sunday, 21 July 2013 8:57 AM *To:* kerry.raym...@gmail.com *Cc:* wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org; WMAu members *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Annual Plan 2014: instructional videos and the larger question of SMART-vs-BHAG ** ** Is this suggestion because we are dissatisfied with the dozens if not hundreds and thousands of instructional videos already available? Maybe the suggestion is for Australian accent and language versions? A series in an Indigenous language would be remarkable! Or perhaps the suggestion is to create videos about Australia related projects and interest groups? In which case its a good suggestion. I for one would benefit from a video overview of the things going on. I have a few videos on my channel outlining Wikiversity work. And know of others looking at Wikinews. On 21/07/2013 8:44 AM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raym...@gmail.com wrote:*** * In http://www.wikimedia.org.au//wiki/Proposal_talk:2014_Annual_Plan#Proposalhttp://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal_talk:2014_Annual_Plan#Proposal Tony1 also suggests instructional videos to reinforce edit training and/or to replace it. He asks is “is it too ambitious”? Because of the WMF’s enthusiasm for metrics, it does drive our thinking towards “low-hanging fruit” projects. Edit training workshops are a good example of this “low hanging” fruit problem. We know we can run a certain number of edit training sessions, we know that with the help of our GLAM partners, we can probably get a certain attendance, we know that attendees seem to enjoy their day of edit training (based on feedback forms) – so that’s a nice measurable success for a nice project that we should keep doing. Could we put the effort instead into instructional videos? Obviously instructional videos could potentially reach a massive international audience, far greater than maybe the 100-200 people we can train each year through workshops, but maybe they would be absolutely zero downloads/views. So the risk/return profile of videos is much higher (we can both succeed and fail more spectacularly) than for edit training. Also we struggle to find volunteers among WMAU members and the Australian WP community for our edit training workshops as our library partners like to run these events on weekdays (incompatible with people’s work lives). Would we find it more-or-less easy to get people to prepare instructional videos which they could at 3am in their
