Re: [Wikitech-l] Data visualization for wiki

[Ivo Kruusamägi]

Thank you for that input! I'll send an e-mail to him and check that.

I'm lot more familiar with Commons and the community there, than with
software developing part. I've been leading projects Minority Translate
 and WikiComment ,
but I'm not a programmer myself and I do have very-very limited knowledge
of what is happening in that field here. Commons really needs that kind of
stuff and the lack of it is rather depressing. This idea about image
ranking that way is itself rather interesting. I've just organized
European_Science_Photo_Competition
in Commons

and
I could easily imagine how that could be used to rank incoming images there
(or just think of POTY, that should soon start). So there would definitely
be practical uses for that. It just needs to offer specific topics.

So. Are there any more comments? :) I still need a topic for that student.
I think it would be a loss for us, if we could not utilize this free
workforce offered to us.

Ivo



2016-02-05 15:16 GMT+02:00 Brian Wolff :

> There is some work towards in browser image editing (see
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/multimedia/2015-December/001219.html
> )
> but im not sure what the status of that is. In the past there was also some
> work around Extension:SVGEdit, but that seems to have died
>
>
> Gamification at commons may be interesting. There are lots of images that
> need their licenses reviewed, need categories added, etc. However getting
> user requirements for this might be tricky. The commons community can be
> very hostile if they perceive a product to not meet user requriements, so
> one has to be careful and be sure to consult the community every step of
> the way.
>
> Even just a more immersive interface for reviewing images might be useful.
>
> Once upon a time i tried to make a game out of ranking images (
> https://tools.wmflabs.org/bawolff/whichisbetter/index.php?title=Main_Page
> ), but that went nowhere. In retrospect, image ranking isn't an activity
> that people were already doing, so it was a poor choice for gamification. I
> think something involving reviewing images might get a lot more traction.
>
> --
> -bawolff
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2016, Ivo Kruusamägi 
> wrote:
> > So, some questions:
> >
> > * how important could that in-wiki image editing capability be?
> > * has anything been done so far?
> >
> > I'd like to find some topic suitable for university student to work on.
> So
> > here it is: free workforce for wiki. Act now the get that! Offer some
> > topics. PHP related tasks preferred.
> >
> > Ivo
> >
> > 2016-02-04 14:20 GMT+02:00 Ivo Kruusamägi :
> >
> >> OK, this Graph extension seems rather advanced and even though not
> exactly
> >> what I had in mind, somewhat similar. So may I conclude it would be
> >> pointless to go into that direction? Or are there some things, that may
> >> need someone to work with them? Like (making random example): building
> very
> >> simple Visual Editor add-on to enable fast creation of some more simple
> >> graphs (like pie charts from the enormous variety of possibilities
> >> )?
> >>
> >> Could I get more information about need for image editors? *I'd like to
> >> find something that might be suitable topic for bachelor thesis* and
> >> vandering around alone inside the topic not yet known to me may not
> prove
> >> to be fruitful.
> >>
> >> As for this Commons topic. Yes, something similar to Wikidata Game, but
> >> directed towards Commons and not Wikidata. More in line with Estonian
> sites
> >> Ajapaik  (for adding geolocation information
> >> to old images), sift.pics (for determining image types) and
> >> postkaart.ajapaik.ee (for digitalizing text in old postcards).
> >>
> >> Ivo
> >>
> >> 2016-02-04 5:00 GMT+02:00 MZMcBride :
> >>
> >>> Ivo Kruusamägi wrote:
> >>> >What I'd like to see is some development, that would make it possible
> for
> >>> >user to create visualizations inside MediaWiki. Something so easy that
> a
> >>> >child could do that. Like this . Workflow
> example:
> >>> 1)
> >>> >user selects sth like Create Data Visualization, 2) has some
> selections
> >>> >about cart type, colors, etc, 3) place to write down text (title,
> axes,
> >>> >description) and 4) a table to fill in with data (values + their text
> >>> >labels). That could then be saved as one revision. After that every
> other
> >>> >user could edit this graph with the same selections and data tables
> just
> >>> >like users edit articles and edit history is saved and easy to
> compare.
> >>> >
> >>> >Image files like this
> >>> > or that
> >>> ><
> >>>
> 

Re: [Wikitech-l] Data visualization for wiki

[Brian Wolff]

There is some work towards in browser image editing (see
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/multimedia/2015-December/001219.html)
but im not sure what the status of that is. In the past there was also some
work around Extension:SVGEdit, but that seems to have died


Gamification at commons may be interesting. There are lots of images that
need their licenses reviewed, need categories added, etc. However getting
user requirements for this might be tricky. The commons community can be
very hostile if they perceive a product to not meet user requriements, so
one has to be careful and be sure to consult the community every step of
the way.

Even just a more immersive interface for reviewing images might be useful.

Once upon a time i tried to make a game out of ranking images (
https://tools.wmflabs.org/bawolff/whichisbetter/index.php?title=Main_Page
), but that went nowhere. In retrospect, image ranking isn't an activity
that people were already doing, so it was a poor choice for gamification. I
think something involving reviewing images might get a lot more traction.

--
-bawolff

On Thursday, February 4, 2016, Ivo Kruusamägi 
wrote:
> So, some questions:
>
> * how important could that in-wiki image editing capability be?
> * has anything been done so far?
>
> I'd like to find some topic suitable for university student to work on. So
> here it is: free workforce for wiki. Act now the get that! Offer some
> topics. PHP related tasks preferred.
>
> Ivo
>
> 2016-02-04 14:20 GMT+02:00 Ivo Kruusamägi :
>
>> OK, this Graph extension seems rather advanced and even though not
exactly
>> what I had in mind, somewhat similar. So may I conclude it would be
>> pointless to go into that direction? Or are there some things, that may
>> need someone to work with them? Like (making random example): building
very
>> simple Visual Editor add-on to enable fast creation of some more simple
>> graphs (like pie charts from the enormous variety of possibilities
>> )?
>>
>> Could I get more information about need for image editors? *I'd like to
>> find something that might be suitable topic for bachelor thesis* and
>> vandering around alone inside the topic not yet known to me may not prove
>> to be fruitful.
>>
>> As for this Commons topic. Yes, something similar to Wikidata Game, but
>> directed towards Commons and not Wikidata. More in line with Estonian
sites
>> Ajapaik  (for adding geolocation information
>> to old images), sift.pics (for determining image types) and
>> postkaart.ajapaik.ee (for digitalizing text in old postcards).
>>
>> Ivo
>>
>> 2016-02-04 5:00 GMT+02:00 MZMcBride :
>>
>>> Ivo Kruusamägi wrote:
>>> >What I'd like to see is some development, that would make it possible
for
>>> >user to create visualizations inside MediaWiki. Something so easy that
a
>>> >child could do that. Like this . Workflow example:
>>> 1)
>>> >user selects sth like Create Data Visualization, 2) has some selections
>>> >about cart type, colors, etc, 3) place to write down text (title, axes,
>>> >description) and 4) a table to fill in with data (values + their text
>>> >labels). That could then be saved as one revision. After that every
other
>>> >user could edit this graph with the same selections and data tables
just
>>> >like users edit articles and edit history is saved and easy to compare.
>>> >
>>> >Image files like this
>>> > or that
>>> ><
>>>
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tree_map_exports_2010_Estonia.svg
>>> > are ridiculous and fixes like that
>>> > are not that
>>> flexible,
>>> >pretty and easy to use as what we need. So lets move forward.
>>>
>>> Are you familiar with the "Graph" MediaWiki extension? Here's a demo:
>>> . This MediaWiki
>>> extension is deployed to Wikimedia wikis, including all the Wikipedias.
>>>
>>> >There are plenty of GPL licensed solutions that could be integrated
with
>>> >MediaWiki. But I can't be only one thinking about this.
>>>
>>> You're not. :-)
>>>
>>> >So what should I know about that topic so that this work could really
be
>>> >useful? I.e. how to avoid reinventing the wheel (like building
something
>>> >already in development) and how to be sure that it could be easily
>>> >incorporated later? Who would be the perfect people to talk about this
>>> >topic?
>>>
>>> This mailing list is great for general discussion. Or we have a
>>> Phabricator installation at  where
we
>>> track bugs and feature requests. You can search around for Phabricator
>>> Maniphest task related to vectorized and rasterized image editors, such
as
>>> . You're welcome to discuss on
>>> those tasks. Integrating a 

Re: [Wikitech-l] Data visualization for wiki

[Ivo Kruusamägi]

OK, this Graph extension seems rather advanced and even though not exactly
what I had in mind, somewhat similar. So may I conclude it would be
pointless to go into that direction? Or are there some things, that may
need someone to work with them? Like (making random example): building very
simple Visual Editor add-on to enable fast creation of some more simple
graphs (like pie charts from the enormous variety of possibilities
)?

Could I get more information about need for image editors? *I'd like to
find something that might be suitable topic for bachelor thesis* and
vandering around alone inside the topic not yet known to me may not prove
to be fruitful.

As for this Commons topic. Yes, something similar to Wikidata Game, but
directed towards Commons and not Wikidata. More in line with Estonian sites
Ajapaik  (for adding geolocation information to
old images), sift.pics (for determining image types) and
postkaart.ajapaik.ee (for digitalizing text in old postcards).

Ivo

2016-02-04 5:00 GMT+02:00 MZMcBride :

> Ivo Kruusamägi wrote:
> >What I'd like to see is some development, that would make it possible for
> >user to create visualizations inside MediaWiki. Something so easy that a
> >child could do that. Like this . Workflow example: 1)
> >user selects sth like Create Data Visualization, 2) has some selections
> >about cart type, colors, etc, 3) place to write down text (title, axes,
> >description) and 4) a table to fill in with data (values + their text
> >labels). That could then be saved as one revision. After that every other
> >user could edit this graph with the same selections and data tables just
> >like users edit articles and edit history is saved and easy to compare.
> >
> >Image files like this
> > or that
> ><
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tree_map_exports_2010_Estonia.svg
> > are ridiculous and fixes like that
> > are not that flexible,
> >pretty and easy to use as what we need. So lets move forward.
>
> Are you familiar with the "Graph" MediaWiki extension? Here's a demo:
> . This MediaWiki
> extension is deployed to Wikimedia wikis, including all the Wikipedias.
>
> >There are plenty of GPL licensed solutions that could be integrated with
> >MediaWiki. But I can't be only one thinking about this.
>
> You're not. :-)
>
> >So what should I know about that topic so that this work could really be
> >useful? I.e. how to avoid reinventing the wheel (like building something
> >already in development) and how to be sure that it could be easily
> >incorporated later? Who would be the perfect people to talk about this
> >topic?
>
> This mailing list is great for general discussion. Or we have a
> Phabricator installation at  where we
> track bugs and feature requests. You can search around for Phabricator
> Maniphest task related to vectorized and rasterized image editors, such as
> . You're welcome to discuss on
> those tasks. Integrating a decent SVG editor and a decent PNG/JPG/GIF
> editor would be amazing!
>
> >P.S: I also have some development plans for a web platform that will help
> >to gamify organizing media files in Wikimedia Commons (coordinates,
> >categories, descriptions, quality assessment, etc). Sort like adding an
> >additional data layer and when everything works fine then migrating that
> >information into Commons. Any great ideas there as well? (not so great
> >ideas could be sent to list :P )
>
> Sure. Maybe poke around  if you
> haven't already? It sounds similar to what you want to do.
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Data visualization for wiki

[Ivo Kruusamägi]

So, some questions:

* how important could that in-wiki image editing capability be?
* has anything been done so far?

I'd like to find some topic suitable for university student to work on. So
here it is: free workforce for wiki. Act now the get that! Offer some
topics. PHP related tasks preferred.

Ivo

2016-02-04 14:20 GMT+02:00 Ivo Kruusamägi :

> OK, this Graph extension seems rather advanced and even though not exactly
> what I had in mind, somewhat similar. So may I conclude it would be
> pointless to go into that direction? Or are there some things, that may
> need someone to work with them? Like (making random example): building very
> simple Visual Editor add-on to enable fast creation of some more simple
> graphs (like pie charts from the enormous variety of possibilities
> )?
>
> Could I get more information about need for image editors? *I'd like to
> find something that might be suitable topic for bachelor thesis* and
> vandering around alone inside the topic not yet known to me may not prove
> to be fruitful.
>
> As for this Commons topic. Yes, something similar to Wikidata Game, but
> directed towards Commons and not Wikidata. More in line with Estonian sites
> Ajapaik  (for adding geolocation information
> to old images), sift.pics (for determining image types) and
> postkaart.ajapaik.ee (for digitalizing text in old postcards).
>
> Ivo
>
> 2016-02-04 5:00 GMT+02:00 MZMcBride :
>
>> Ivo Kruusamägi wrote:
>> >What I'd like to see is some development, that would make it possible for
>> >user to create visualizations inside MediaWiki. Something so easy that a
>> >child could do that. Like this . Workflow example:
>> 1)
>> >user selects sth like Create Data Visualization, 2) has some selections
>> >about cart type, colors, etc, 3) place to write down text (title, axes,
>> >description) and 4) a table to fill in with data (values + their text
>> >labels). That could then be saved as one revision. After that every other
>> >user could edit this graph with the same selections and data tables just
>> >like users edit articles and edit history is saved and easy to compare.
>> >
>> >Image files like this
>> > or that
>> ><
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tree_map_exports_2010_Estonia.svg
>> > are ridiculous and fixes like that
>> > are not that
>> flexible,
>> >pretty and easy to use as what we need. So lets move forward.
>>
>> Are you familiar with the "Graph" MediaWiki extension? Here's a demo:
>> . This MediaWiki
>> extension is deployed to Wikimedia wikis, including all the Wikipedias.
>>
>> >There are plenty of GPL licensed solutions that could be integrated with
>> >MediaWiki. But I can't be only one thinking about this.
>>
>> You're not. :-)
>>
>> >So what should I know about that topic so that this work could really be
>> >useful? I.e. how to avoid reinventing the wheel (like building something
>> >already in development) and how to be sure that it could be easily
>> >incorporated later? Who would be the perfect people to talk about this
>> >topic?
>>
>> This mailing list is great for general discussion. Or we have a
>> Phabricator installation at  where we
>> track bugs and feature requests. You can search around for Phabricator
>> Maniphest task related to vectorized and rasterized image editors, such as
>> . You're welcome to discuss on
>> those tasks. Integrating a decent SVG editor and a decent PNG/JPG/GIF
>> editor would be amazing!
>>
>> >P.S: I also have some development plans for a web platform that will help
>> >to gamify organizing media files in Wikimedia Commons (coordinates,
>> >categories, descriptions, quality assessment, etc). Sort like adding an
>> >additional data layer and when everything works fine then migrating that
>> >information into Commons. Any great ideas there as well? (not so great
>> >ideas could be sent to list :P )
>>
>> Sure. Maybe poke around  if you
>> haven't already? It sounds similar to what you want to do.
>>
>> MZMcBride
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Data visualization for wiki

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Ivo, there are two aspects of building graphs for Wiki:
* defining a "type" or "style" of a graph
* instantiating a graph with the specific data

Defining a new graph is a relatively complex programming task - one has to
program how graph would look like using Vega syntax. Instantiating is much
easier - one has to simply provide the needed data and a few parameters
controlling the graph.  Graph:Chart
  is a good example
which has been copied to many wikis.  The graph is generated via a complex
Lua script, but that complexity is hidden from all the graph users.

Frederic Bolduc (CCed) has done a good job building an experimental Visual
Editor plugin for graphs, but that plugin attempts to do both tasks -
define the new graph type and allow for users to instantiate it, and we do
not have enough resources to support both aspects well.  It would be ideal
if you helped with that extension to change it into a template editor +
galery picker. This way community may build the graphs it needs, and lists
them in a "gallery of good graphs". Visual Editor would than show a "list
of recommended graphs" as a set of icons. Editors will be able to quickly
insert a graph template and provide data for it.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:10 AM, Ivo Kruusamägi 
wrote:

> So, some questions:
>
> * how important could that in-wiki image editing capability be?
> * has anything been done so far?
>
> I'd like to find some topic suitable for university student to work on. So
> here it is: free workforce for wiki. Act now the get that! Offer some
> topics. PHP related tasks preferred.
>
> Ivo
>
> 2016-02-04 14:20 GMT+02:00 Ivo Kruusamägi :
>
> > OK, this Graph extension seems rather advanced and even though not
> exactly
> > what I had in mind, somewhat similar. So may I conclude it would be
> > pointless to go into that direction? Or are there some things, that may
> > need someone to work with them? Like (making random example): building
> very
> > simple Visual Editor add-on to enable fast creation of some more simple
> > graphs (like pie charts from the enormous variety of possibilities
> > )?
> >
> > Could I get more information about need for image editors? *I'd like to
> > find something that might be suitable topic for bachelor thesis* and
> > vandering around alone inside the topic not yet known to me may not prove
> > to be fruitful.
> >
> > As for this Commons topic. Yes, something similar to Wikidata Game, but
> > directed towards Commons and not Wikidata. More in line with Estonian
> sites
> > Ajapaik  (for adding geolocation information
> > to old images), sift.pics (for determining image types) and
> > postkaart.ajapaik.ee (for digitalizing text in old postcards).
> >
> > Ivo
> >
> > 2016-02-04 5:00 GMT+02:00 MZMcBride :
> >
> >> Ivo Kruusamägi wrote:
> >> >What I'd like to see is some development, that would make it possible
> for
> >> >user to create visualizations inside MediaWiki. Something so easy that
> a
> >> >child could do that. Like this . Workflow example:
> >> 1)
> >> >user selects sth like Create Data Visualization, 2) has some selections
> >> >about cart type, colors, etc, 3) place to write down text (title, axes,
> >> >description) and 4) a table to fill in with data (values + their text
> >> >labels). That could then be saved as one revision. After that every
> other
> >> >user could edit this graph with the same selections and data tables
> just
> >> >like users edit articles and edit history is saved and easy to compare.
> >> >
> >> >Image files like this
> >> > or that
> >> ><
> >>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tree_map_exports_2010_Estonia.svg
> >> > are ridiculous and fixes like that
> >> > are not that
> >> flexible,
> >> >pretty and easy to use as what we need. So lets move forward.
> >>
> >> Are you familiar with the "Graph" MediaWiki extension? Here's a demo:
> >> . This MediaWiki
> >> extension is deployed to Wikimedia wikis, including all the Wikipedias.
> >>
> >> >There are plenty of GPL licensed solutions that could be integrated
> with
> >> >MediaWiki. But I can't be only one thinking about this.
> >>
> >> You're not. :-)
> >>
> >> >So what should I know about that topic so that this work could really
> be
> >> >useful? I.e. how to avoid reinventing the wheel (like building
> something
> >> >already in development) and how to be sure that it could be easily
> >> >incorporated later? Who would be the perfect people to talk about this
> >> >topic?
> >>
> >> This mailing list is great for general discussion. Or we have a
> >> Phabricator installation at  where
> we
> >> track bugs 

Re: [Wikitech-l] Data visualization for wiki

[MZMcBride]

Ivo Kruusamägi wrote:
>What I'd like to see is some development, that would make it possible for
>user to create visualizations inside MediaWiki. Something so easy that a
>child could do that. Like this . Workflow example: 1)
>user selects sth like Create Data Visualization, 2) has some selections
>about cart type, colors, etc, 3) place to write down text (title, axes,
>description) and 4) a table to fill in with data (values + their text
>labels). That could then be saved as one revision. After that every other
>user could edit this graph with the same selections and data tables just
>like users edit articles and edit history is saved and easy to compare.
>
>Image files like this
> or that
> are ridiculous and fixes like that
> are not that flexible,
>pretty and easy to use as what we need. So lets move forward.

Are you familiar with the "Graph" MediaWiki extension? Here's a demo:
. This MediaWiki
extension is deployed to Wikimedia wikis, including all the Wikipedias.

>There are plenty of GPL licensed solutions that could be integrated with
>MediaWiki. But I can't be only one thinking about this.

You're not. :-)

>So what should I know about that topic so that this work could really be
>useful? I.e. how to avoid reinventing the wheel (like building something
>already in development) and how to be sure that it could be easily
>incorporated later? Who would be the perfect people to talk about this
>topic?

This mailing list is great for general discussion. Or we have a
Phabricator installation at  where we
track bugs and feature requests. You can search around for Phabricator
Maniphest task related to vectorized and rasterized image editors, such as
. You're welcome to discuss on
those tasks. Integrating a decent SVG editor and a decent PNG/JPG/GIF
editor would be amazing!

>P.S: I also have some development plans for a web platform that will help
>to gamify organizing media files in Wikimedia Commons (coordinates,
>categories, descriptions, quality assessment, etc). Sort like adding an
>additional data layer and when everything works fine then migrating that
>information into Commons. Any great ideas there as well? (not so great
>ideas could be sent to list :P )

Sure. Maybe poke around  if you
haven't already? It sounds similar to what you want to do.

MZMcBride



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[Wikitech-l] Data visualization for wiki

[Ivo Kruusamägi]

For some time now I've thought that possibilities for data visualization in
Wikipedia (or in MediaWiki) are pretty bad. So I'll describe one idea below
and would like to get some feedback. Reason is simple: I'd like to give
this task to one university student so that he could solve that issue.


What I'd like to see is some development, that would make it possible for
user to create visualizations inside MediaWiki. Something so easy that a
child could do that. Like this . Workflow example: 1)
user selects sth like Create Data Visualization, 2) has some selections
about cart type, colors, etc, 3) place to write down text (title, axes,
description) and 4) a table to fill in with data (values + their text
labels). That could then be saved as one revision. After that every other
user could edit this graph with the same selections and data tables just
like users edit articles and edit history is saved and easy to compare.

Image files like thi
s or that
 are
ridiculous and fixes like that
 are not that flexible,
pretty and easy to use as what we need. So lets move forward. There are
plenty of GPL licensed solutions that could be integrated with MediaWiki.
But I can't be only one thinking about this. So what should I know about
that topic so that this work could really be useful? I.e. how to avoid
reinventing the wheel (like building something already in development) and
how to be sure that it could be easily incorporated later? Who would be the
perfect people to talk about this topic?

Also: are there some very specific tasks within this data visualization
topic that suite well as a research project(s) for an IT student(s)?

Regards,
Ivo Kruusamägi

P.S: I also have some development plans for a web platform that will help
to gamify organizing media files in Wikimedia Commons (coordinates,
categories, descriptions, quality assessment, etc). Sort like adding an
additional data layer and when everything works fine then migrating that
information into Commons. Any great ideas there as well? (not so great
ideas could be sent to list :P )

P.S 2: There is this feedback platform named WikiComment
. Some testing is need by wikipedians :)
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