Re: [Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[Amir Sarabadani]

I think it's because mailman3 doesn't need something like listadmin
anymore. It provides a REST API that you can use to achieve the same
functionality in a couple lines of code:
https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/rest.html

HTH

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 1:30 AM Michael Schönitzer <
michael.schoenit...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> A sad side effect of the upgrade will probably be that listadmin[1] will
> break. Does anyone know an alternative?
>
> [1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/listadmin/
>
> Am So., 9. Aug. 2020 um 23:13 Uhr schrieb David Gerard  >:
>
> > In fairness, pipermail archives were always a bit shaky - on the
> > occasions when an email's had to be removed from the archive
> > previously, it's messed up the URLs of all the other emails in that
> > month's archive.
> >
> > But let's say it would be *nice* not to mess up the public archive
> > URLs if feasible :-)
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 21:19, Amir Sarabadani 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > hmm, Links of archived discussions in private mailing lists are not as
> > > important as the ones in public lists, we definitely should migrate
> > public
> > > mailing lists first and after that we can migrate any private mailing
> > list
> > > that is okay with their links being broken (and then we remove those
> old
> > > archives to make it unaccessible to public). It probably means we need
> to
> > > keep mailman2 around for a while.
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:38 PM AntiCompositeNumber <
> > > anticompositenum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I would agree that it would be a good solution, except for the next
> > > > bullet in the same document:
> > > > "The above mechanism won’t work for private archives since the
> > > > archives are gated with password and without a Mailman 2 list, there
> > > > is no password. You can however import them to Mailman 3."
> > > >
> > > > Since keeping private lists private is also a requirement, that
> pretty
> > > > much means rolling our own auth system on top of Mailman 3 or
> creating
> > > > a bunch of HTTP redirect rules.
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 3:31 PM Amir Sarabadani 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > According to the upgrade guide (
> > > > >
> > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations
> > > > ):
> > > > > "If you need your URLs for Mailman 2 archives to work, you can keep
> > the
> > > > > HTML files generated for the archives around and your web server
> > > > > configuration for the archives intact (possibly with a notice to
> > viewers
> > > > > that it is now a read-only archive, see this list
> > > > >  for example)."
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's an example: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/
> > > > (with a
> > > > > notice).
> > > > >
> > > > > It means, the old archives will stay the same (and
> > accessible/searchable
> > > > > with the new interface as well) but new mails won't get added there
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > old archives. I think that's a good compromise.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM David Gerard 
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How
> > will
> > > > > > the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to
> > > > > > construct a redirect farm?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - d.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber
> > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Glad to hear this is moving forward!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Keeping archive links working, for both public and private
> lists,
> > > > > > > should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional
> knowledge
> > > > > > > stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to
> > keep
> > > > > > > that around.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ACN
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori <
> > zorandori4...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > > this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly"
> > function.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > Zoran Dori
> > > > > > > > Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects
> > > > > > > > E: zorandori4...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > W: kizule.tk
> > > > > > > > I: iamkizule 
> > > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ___
> > > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list

Re: [Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[Michael Schönitzer]

A sad side effect of the upgrade will probably be that listadmin[1] will
break. Does anyone know an alternative?

[1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/listadmin/

Am So., 9. Aug. 2020 um 23:13 Uhr schrieb David Gerard :

> In fairness, pipermail archives were always a bit shaky - on the
> occasions when an email's had to be removed from the archive
> previously, it's messed up the URLs of all the other emails in that
> month's archive.
>
> But let's say it would be *nice* not to mess up the public archive
> URLs if feasible :-)
>
>
> - d.
>
>
> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 21:19, Amir Sarabadani  wrote:
> >
> > hmm, Links of archived discussions in private mailing lists are not as
> > important as the ones in public lists, we definitely should migrate
> public
> > mailing lists first and after that we can migrate any private mailing
> list
> > that is okay with their links being broken (and then we remove those old
> > archives to make it unaccessible to public). It probably means we need to
> > keep mailman2 around for a while.
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:38 PM AntiCompositeNumber <
> > anticompositenum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I would agree that it would be a good solution, except for the next
> > > bullet in the same document:
> > > "The above mechanism won’t work for private archives since the
> > > archives are gated with password and without a Mailman 2 list, there
> > > is no password. You can however import them to Mailman 3."
> > >
> > > Since keeping private lists private is also a requirement, that pretty
> > > much means rolling our own auth system on top of Mailman 3 or creating
> > > a bunch of HTTP redirect rules.
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 3:31 PM Amir Sarabadani 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > According to the upgrade guide (
> > > >
> https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations
> > > ):
> > > > "If you need your URLs for Mailman 2 archives to work, you can keep
> the
> > > > HTML files generated for the archives around and your web server
> > > > configuration for the archives intact (possibly with a notice to
> viewers
> > > > that it is now a read-only archive, see this list
> > > >  for example)."
> > > >
> > > > Here's an example: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/
> > > (with a
> > > > notice).
> > > >
> > > > It means, the old archives will stay the same (and
> accessible/searchable
> > > > with the new interface as well) but new mails won't get added there
> to
> > > the
> > > > old archives. I think that's a good compromise.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM David Gerard 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How
> will
> > > > > the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to
> > > > > construct a redirect farm?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - d.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Glad to hear this is moving forward!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists,
> > > > > > should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge
> > > > > > stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to
> keep
> > > > > > that around.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ACN
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori <
> zorandori4...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly"
> function.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > Zoran Dori
> > > > > > > Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects
> > > > > > > E: zorandori4...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > W: kizule.tk
> > > > > > > I: iamkizule 
> > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ___
> > > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Amir (he/him)
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Amir (he/him)
> > 

Re: [Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[David Gerard]

In fairness, pipermail archives were always a bit shaky - on the
occasions when an email's had to be removed from the archive
previously, it's messed up the URLs of all the other emails in that
month's archive.

But let's say it would be *nice* not to mess up the public archive
URLs if feasible :-)


- d.


On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 21:19, Amir Sarabadani  wrote:
>
> hmm, Links of archived discussions in private mailing lists are not as
> important as the ones in public lists, we definitely should migrate public
> mailing lists first and after that we can migrate any private mailing list
> that is okay with their links being broken (and then we remove those old
> archives to make it unaccessible to public). It probably means we need to
> keep mailman2 around for a while.
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:38 PM AntiCompositeNumber <
> anticompositenum...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I would agree that it would be a good solution, except for the next
> > bullet in the same document:
> > "The above mechanism won’t work for private archives since the
> > archives are gated with password and without a Mailman 2 list, there
> > is no password. You can however import them to Mailman 3."
> >
> > Since keeping private lists private is also a requirement, that pretty
> > much means rolling our own auth system on top of Mailman 3 or creating
> > a bunch of HTTP redirect rules.
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 3:31 PM Amir Sarabadani 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > According to the upgrade guide (
> > > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations
> > ):
> > > "If you need your URLs for Mailman 2 archives to work, you can keep the
> > > HTML files generated for the archives around and your web server
> > > configuration for the archives intact (possibly with a notice to viewers
> > > that it is now a read-only archive, see this list
> > >  for example)."
> > >
> > > Here's an example: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/
> > (with a
> > > notice).
> > >
> > > It means, the old archives will stay the same (and accessible/searchable
> > > with the new interface as well) but new mails won't get added there to
> > the
> > > old archives. I think that's a good compromise.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM David Gerard  wrote:
> > >
> > > > yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How will
> > > > the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to
> > > > construct a redirect farm?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - d.
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Glad to hear this is moving forward!
> > > > >
> > > > > Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists,
> > > > > should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge
> > > > > stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to keep
> > > > > that around.
> > > > >
> > > > > ACN
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Zoran Dori
> > > > > > Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects
> > > > > > E: zorandori4...@gmail.com
> > > > > > W: kizule.tk
> > > > > > I: iamkizule 
> > > > > > ___
> > > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Amir (he/him)
> > > ___
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> > ___
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
>
> --
> Amir (he/him)
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[Amir Sarabadani]

hmm, Links of archived discussions in private mailing lists are not as
important as the ones in public lists, we definitely should migrate public
mailing lists first and after that we can migrate any private mailing list
that is okay with their links being broken (and then we remove those old
archives to make it unaccessible to public). It probably means we need to
keep mailman2 around for a while.

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:38 PM AntiCompositeNumber <
anticompositenum...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would agree that it would be a good solution, except for the next
> bullet in the same document:
> "The above mechanism won’t work for private archives since the
> archives are gated with password and without a Mailman 2 list, there
> is no password. You can however import them to Mailman 3."
>
> Since keeping private lists private is also a requirement, that pretty
> much means rolling our own auth system on top of Mailman 3 or creating
> a bunch of HTTP redirect rules.
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 3:31 PM Amir Sarabadani 
> wrote:
> >
> > According to the upgrade guide (
> > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations
> ):
> > "If you need your URLs for Mailman 2 archives to work, you can keep the
> > HTML files generated for the archives around and your web server
> > configuration for the archives intact (possibly with a notice to viewers
> > that it is now a read-only archive, see this list
> >  for example)."
> >
> > Here's an example: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/
> (with a
> > notice).
> >
> > It means, the old archives will stay the same (and accessible/searchable
> > with the new interface as well) but new mails won't get added there to
> the
> > old archives. I think that's a good compromise.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM David Gerard  wrote:
> >
> > > yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How will
> > > the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to
> > > construct a redirect farm?
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
> > > On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Glad to hear this is moving forward!
> > > >
> > > > Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists,
> > > > should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge
> > > > stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to keep
> > > > that around.
> > > >
> > > > ACN
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori 
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > > this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Zoran Dori
> > > > > Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects
> > > > > E: zorandori4...@gmail.com
> > > > > W: kizule.tk
> > > > > I: iamkizule 
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Amir (he/him)
> > ___
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l



-- 
Amir (he/him)
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[AntiCompositeNumber]

I would agree that it would be a good solution, except for the next
bullet in the same document:
"The above mechanism won’t work for private archives since the
archives are gated with password and without a Mailman 2 list, there
is no password. You can however import them to Mailman 3."

Since keeping private lists private is also a requirement, that pretty
much means rolling our own auth system on top of Mailman 3 or creating
a bunch of HTTP redirect rules.

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 3:31 PM Amir Sarabadani  wrote:
>
> According to the upgrade guide (
> https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations):
> "If you need your URLs for Mailman 2 archives to work, you can keep the
> HTML files generated for the archives around and your web server
> configuration for the archives intact (possibly with a notice to viewers
> that it is now a read-only archive, see this list
>  for example)."
>
> Here's an example: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/ (with a
> notice).
>
> It means, the old archives will stay the same (and accessible/searchable
> with the new interface as well) but new mails won't get added there to the
> old archives. I think that's a good compromise.
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM David Gerard  wrote:
>
> > yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How will
> > the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to
> > construct a redirect farm?
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> > On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > Glad to hear this is moving forward!
> > >
> > > Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists,
> > > should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge
> > > stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to keep
> > > that around.
> > >
> > > ACN
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > > this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Zoran Dori
> > > > Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects
> > > > E: zorandori4...@gmail.com
> > > > W: kizule.tk
> > > > I: iamkizule 
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> > ___
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
>
> --
> Amir (he/him)
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[Amir Sarabadani]

According to the upgrade guide (
https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations):
"If you need your URLs for Mailman 2 archives to work, you can keep the
HTML files generated for the archives around and your web server
configuration for the archives intact (possibly with a notice to viewers
that it is now a read-only archive, see this list
 for example)."

Here's an example: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/security-sig/ (with a
notice).

It means, the old archives will stay the same (and accessible/searchable
with the new interface as well) but new mails won't get added there to the
old archives. I think that's a good compromise.


On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM David Gerard  wrote:

> yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How will
> the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to
> construct a redirect farm?
>
>
> - d.
>
> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber
>  wrote:
> >
> > Glad to hear this is moving forward!
> >
> > Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists,
> > should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge
> > stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to keep
> > that around.
> >
> > ACN
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Zoran Dori
> > > Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects
> > > E: zorandori4...@gmail.com
> > > W: kizule.tk
> > > I: iamkizule 
> > > ___
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> > ___
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>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[David Gerard]

yes - those links are thrown around as if they're archival. How will
the change affect links to past messages? Will someone need to
construct a redirect farm?


- d.

On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 19:54, AntiCompositeNumber
 wrote:
>
> Glad to hear this is moving forward!
>
> Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists,
> should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge
> stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to keep
> that around.
>
> ACN
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori  wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Zoran Dori
> > Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects
> > E: zorandori4...@gmail.com
> > W: kizule.tk
> > I: iamkizule 
> > ___
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> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[AntiCompositeNumber]

Glad to hear this is moving forward!

Keeping archive links working, for both public and private lists,
should be a requirement. There's a lot of institutional knowledge
stored in the mailing list archives, and it's very important to keep
that around.

ACN

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Zoran Dori  wrote:
>
> Hello,
> this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.
>
> Best regards,
> Zoran Dori
> Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects
> E: zorandori4...@gmail.com
> W: kizule.tk
> I: iamkizule 
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[Zoran Dori]

Hello,
this looks great. Especially because of "mobile friendly" function.

Best regards,
Zoran Dori
Volunteer on Wikimedia Foundation's projects
E: zorandori4...@gmail.com
W: kizule.tk
I: iamkizule 
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[Kaartic Sivaraam]

Hi,


On 9 ஆகஸ்ட், 2020 2:25:30 AM IST, Amir Sarabadani  wrote:
>Hey,
>Mailman, the software that powers our mailing lists, is extremely old,
>by
>looking at https://lists.wikimedia.org/ you can guess how old it is.
>
>I would really like to upgrade it to mailman 3 which has these
>benefits:
>* Much better security (including but not limited to
>https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T181803)
>* Much better UI and UX

Including a mobile friendly archive page! I really love this. Thanks!!

-- 
Sivaraam

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[ZI Jony]

Great! It's really good and useful.

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 7:41 AM Denny Vrandečić 
wrote:

> Thank you so much!
>
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020, 13:56 Amir Sarabadani  wrote:
>
> > Hey,
> > Mailman, the software that powers our mailing lists, is extremely old, by
> > looking at https://lists.wikimedia.org/ you can guess how old it is.
> >
> > I would really like to upgrade it to mailman 3 which has these benefits:
> > * Much better security (including but not limited to
> > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T181803)
> > * Much better UI and UX
> > * Much easier moderation and maintaining mailing lists
> > * Ability to send mail from the web
> > * Ability to search in archives.
> > * Ability to like/dislike an email
> > * List admins will be able to delete emails, merge threads, and much
> more.
> > * Admins won't need to store passwords for each mailing list separately,
> > they just login as their account everywhere.
> > * The current mailman stores everything as files (even mailing list
> > settings), mailman3 actually uses a proper database for everything
> meaning
> > proper backup and recovery, high availability and much more.
> >
> > I have already put up a test setup and humbly ask you (specially list
> > admins) to test it (and its admin interface), if you want to become a
> list
> > admin, drop me a message. Keep in mind that we don't maintain the
> software
> > so the most I can do is to change configuration and can't handle a
> feature
> > request or solve a bug (you are more than welcome to file it against
> > upstream though)
> >
> > Here's the test setup:
> > * https://lists.wmcloud.org
> >
> > Here's a mailing list:
> > * https://lists.wmcloud.org/postorius/lists/test.lists.wmcloud.org/
> >
> > Here's an archive post:
> > *
> >
> >
> https://lists.wmcloud.org/hyperkitty/list/t...@lists.wmcloud.org/thread/RMQPKSS4ID3WALFXAF636J2NGBVCN3UA/
> >
> > Issues that I haven't figured out yet:
> > * This system has profile picture support but it's only gravatar which we
> > can't enable due to our privacy policy but when you disable it, it shows
> > empty squares and looks bad. Reported upstream [1] but also we can have a
> > gravatar proxy in production. And in the worst case scenario we can just
> > inject "$('.gravatar').remove();" and remove them. Feel free to chime in
> in
> > the phabricator ticket in this regard:
> > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256541
> >
> > * Upgrade will break archive links, making it work forever is not trivial
> > (you need write apache rewrite rule) (You can read about it in
> > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations)
> >
> > * Mailman allows us to upgrade mailing list by mailing list, that's good
> > but we haven't found a way to keep the old version and the new ones in
> sync
> > (archives, etc.). Maybe we migrate a mailing list and the archives for
> the
> > old version will stop getting updated. Would that work for you? Feel free
> > to chime in: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256539
> >
> > * We don't know what would be the size of the database after upgrade
> > because these two versions are so inherently different, one idea was to
> > check the size of a fully public mailing list, then move the files to the
> > test setup, upgrade it to the new version  and check how it changes, then
> > extrapolate the size of the final database. The discussion around the
> > database is happening in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256538
> >
> > If you want to help in the upgrade (like puppetzining its configuration,
> > etc.) just let me know and I add you to the project! It uses a
> stand-alone
> > puppetmaster so you don't need to get your puppet patches merged to see
> its
> > effects.
> >
> > The main ticket about the upgrade:
> > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T52864
> >
> > [1] https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/issues/303#note_365162201
> >
> > Hope that'll be useful for you :)
> > --
> > Amir (he/him)
> > ___
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[Denny Vrandečić]

Thank you so much!

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020, 13:56 Amir Sarabadani  wrote:

> Hey,
> Mailman, the software that powers our mailing lists, is extremely old, by
> looking at https://lists.wikimedia.org/ you can guess how old it is.
>
> I would really like to upgrade it to mailman 3 which has these benefits:
> * Much better security (including but not limited to
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T181803)
> * Much better UI and UX
> * Much easier moderation and maintaining mailing lists
> * Ability to send mail from the web
> * Ability to search in archives.
> * Ability to like/dislike an email
> * List admins will be able to delete emails, merge threads, and much more.
> * Admins won't need to store passwords for each mailing list separately,
> they just login as their account everywhere.
> * The current mailman stores everything as files (even mailing list
> settings), mailman3 actually uses a proper database for everything meaning
> proper backup and recovery, high availability and much more.
>
> I have already put up a test setup and humbly ask you (specially list
> admins) to test it (and its admin interface), if you want to become a list
> admin, drop me a message. Keep in mind that we don't maintain the software
> so the most I can do is to change configuration and can't handle a feature
> request or solve a bug (you are more than welcome to file it against
> upstream though)
>
> Here's the test setup:
> * https://lists.wmcloud.org
>
> Here's a mailing list:
> * https://lists.wmcloud.org/postorius/lists/test.lists.wmcloud.org/
>
> Here's an archive post:
> *
>
> https://lists.wmcloud.org/hyperkitty/list/t...@lists.wmcloud.org/thread/RMQPKSS4ID3WALFXAF636J2NGBVCN3UA/
>
> Issues that I haven't figured out yet:
> * This system has profile picture support but it's only gravatar which we
> can't enable due to our privacy policy but when you disable it, it shows
> empty squares and looks bad. Reported upstream [1] but also we can have a
> gravatar proxy in production. And in the worst case scenario we can just
> inject "$('.gravatar').remove();" and remove them. Feel free to chime in in
> the phabricator ticket in this regard:
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256541
>
> * Upgrade will break archive links, making it work forever is not trivial
> (you need write apache rewrite rule) (You can read about it in
> https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations)
>
> * Mailman allows us to upgrade mailing list by mailing list, that's good
> but we haven't found a way to keep the old version and the new ones in sync
> (archives, etc.). Maybe we migrate a mailing list and the archives for the
> old version will stop getting updated. Would that work for you? Feel free
> to chime in: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256539
>
> * We don't know what would be the size of the database after upgrade
> because these two versions are so inherently different, one idea was to
> check the size of a fully public mailing list, then move the files to the
> test setup, upgrade it to the new version  and check how it changes, then
> extrapolate the size of the final database. The discussion around the
> database is happening in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256538
>
> If you want to help in the upgrade (like puppetzining its configuration,
> etc.) just let me know and I add you to the project! It uses a stand-alone
> puppetmaster so you don't need to get your puppet patches merged to see its
> effects.
>
> The main ticket about the upgrade:
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T52864
>
> [1] https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/issues/303#note_365162201
>
> Hope that'll be useful for you :)
> --
> Amir (he/him)
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[Wikitech-l] Upgrading mailman (the software behind mailing lists)

[Amir Sarabadani]

Hey,
Mailman, the software that powers our mailing lists, is extremely old, by
looking at https://lists.wikimedia.org/ you can guess how old it is.

I would really like to upgrade it to mailman 3 which has these benefits:
* Much better security (including but not limited to
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T181803)
* Much better UI and UX
* Much easier moderation and maintaining mailing lists
* Ability to send mail from the web
* Ability to search in archives.
* Ability to like/dislike an email
* List admins will be able to delete emails, merge threads, and much more.
* Admins won't need to store passwords for each mailing list separately,
they just login as their account everywhere.
* The current mailman stores everything as files (even mailing list
settings), mailman3 actually uses a proper database for everything meaning
proper backup and recovery, high availability and much more.

I have already put up a test setup and humbly ask you (specially list
admins) to test it (and its admin interface), if you want to become a list
admin, drop me a message. Keep in mind that we don't maintain the software
so the most I can do is to change configuration and can't handle a feature
request or solve a bug (you are more than welcome to file it against
upstream though)

Here's the test setup:
* https://lists.wmcloud.org

Here's a mailing list:
* https://lists.wmcloud.org/postorius/lists/test.lists.wmcloud.org/

Here's an archive post:
*
https://lists.wmcloud.org/hyperkitty/list/t...@lists.wmcloud.org/thread/RMQPKSS4ID3WALFXAF636J2NGBVCN3UA/

Issues that I haven't figured out yet:
* This system has profile picture support but it's only gravatar which we
can't enable due to our privacy policy but when you disable it, it shows
empty squares and looks bad. Reported upstream [1] but also we can have a
gravatar proxy in production. And in the worst case scenario we can just
inject "$('.gravatar').remove();" and remove them. Feel free to chime in in
the phabricator ticket in this regard:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256541

* Upgrade will break archive links, making it work forever is not trivial
(you need write apache rewrite rule) (You can read about it in
https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#other-considerations)

* Mailman allows us to upgrade mailing list by mailing list, that's good
but we haven't found a way to keep the old version and the new ones in sync
(archives, etc.). Maybe we migrate a mailing list and the archives for the
old version will stop getting updated. Would that work for you? Feel free
to chime in: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256539

* We don't know what would be the size of the database after upgrade
because these two versions are so inherently different, one idea was to
check the size of a fully public mailing list, then move the files to the
test setup, upgrade it to the new version  and check how it changes, then
extrapolate the size of the final database. The discussion around the
database is happening in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256538

If you want to help in the upgrade (like puppetzining its configuration,
etc.) just let me know and I add you to the project! It uses a stand-alone
puppetmaster so you don't need to get your puppet patches merged to see its
effects.

The main ticket about the upgrade: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T52864

[1] https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/issues/303#note_365162201

Hope that'll be useful for you :)
-- 
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