Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] WLAN stress test uncovers802.11performance problems
Kurt This is a good point, the CPEs are all sending a signal back to the AP at random times but as you scale more are hitting at the same time which can over load the receivers on some AP radios. When you lower the power on the units that are closer this reduces the total power levels the radio is seeing at a single moment in time. In general you want to see the same single back from all the CPEs to the AP. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient and receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute a loss of the confidential or privileged nature of the communication. Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender by return electronic mail and delete all copies of this communication -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 11:06 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] WLAN stress test uncovers802.11performance problems One thing I have noticed after adding 50+ customers on a omni is that you get better performance by turning the TX power DOWN on the clients within 1 mile. I would assume this is so because of some kind of self interference. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 1:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] WLAN stress test uncovers802.11performance problems Jack I will give in to your challenge, and focus on outdoors setups :) But first, I agree with you 100% about your comments; some venders saying add more APs will help as well as their smart systems will solve all their performance issues. We have been watching, talking and helping some of the people involved in the so called city wide wifi and many if not all of them are simply not adhering to the strengths of wifi and trying to make the protocol do things it will not. When we get calls like this the most common misconceptions is they expect laptops to work miles away from the AP, Non-LOS, and Omni installs to keep it simple. Then we put on our training hats to bring them down to earth on what to really expect and how to design a system correctly. Ok now to a design ideas, first I want to point out that each design is going to be different but if the basic concepts are followed it will work each and every time. 1. Before any design can be started you really want to get a base line as to what one is starting with. We always recommend rents hand held SA and do field tests to see what other frequencies are out there being used and do your best to triangulate and find out where they are coming from. This data should be recorded on a map for future reference. 2. 90% of our customers try to find the highest place in the middle of the area they are trying to serve, while this could be the best choice for a design it's not the only or best one. See if you can service the same area from the outside in, for example if you are able to find three locations on the outer rim of an area and use 120 degree antennas this will increase your true coverage area exponentially as the installers now have three locations to try vs. one. The latest customer we helped with a design went from 25% install rate to 90%, thus it's well worth the costs for the extra two locations up front where the costs of a truck role is about $50 minimum if the customer is installed or not! The first month this design saved the customer well over $5000 in install fees plus he now over 100 customers generating income that he would not have at this point! 3. Once the locations are found on the tower or building you REALY want to avoid installing antennas anywhere near each other. On a tower try to install the antennas with 10' vertical separation at a minimum, more is better and vertical is more important than horizontal. Also try to have 2-3' horizontal separation. Ideally you want to create a spiral stair case effect with the antennas. 4. This is where the setup is very important, you NEED to limit the distance of each antennas to be practical. For example if you are in a rural area this could be 10+ miles where you do not see any other radio signals via the antenna, yes you want to test with an SA directly on the antennas to confirm! In
Re: [WISPA] pcb Ask Tony Morella
We don't use them that much anymore in the new product lines but we do have stock they are .25 each less than 100 and 20 each with 100+. You can call and talk to one of our sales reps to order just reference part number MF-SLAD250ADH. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com http://www.demarctech.com This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient and receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute a loss of the confidential or privileged nature of the communication. Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender by return electronic mail and delete all copies of this communication From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] pcb Ask Tony Morella It was suppose to say Have you had a problem Tony? Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Demarctech has used them for a couple years. Have you had a problem. I have not had a problem with the ones in the Demarctech products. Brian Tom DeReggi wrote: Well, I'd rather ask... How have the adhesive backed mounts been working out? I'm afraid to use them. We use the little golden metal standoffs, bolt them in, and water proof. Afraid the board will come loose and short out, after significant heat or cold or moisture. Accident waiting to happen, a year down the road. How long are they holding up? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] pcb Let me know when you order. They have a min order number. I got some a couple yrs ago and sold a bunch. I think you had to order 500-1000. Now I am a little low. I might take some off your hands if you don't want that many. Brian Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, Who sells the plastic 3M PCB with adhesive backing? Like for mounting routerboards inside cases? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
I have already emailed Mikrotik a week ago, and opened a new thread on their forum. They should at least get the idea of what I need and develop a test that is specific to their wireless. I do NOT want this to turn into a year long project. Travis Tom DeReggi wrote: Butch, You have misunderstood. (you must have been reading top down) I was responding to Dennis Burgess's post, who was showing interest in possibly getting involved to ask Mikrotik on our behalf, but first asked for clarification on exactly what features we wanted. Its not as clear cut as just asking for something. We ourselves need to be clear about what we want. These are very technical issues. If it were easy, it would have already been done. My post brought up real technical traits that needed to be considered in defining what was best to ask for. You of all people as a consultant should understand these technical differences. I'm not a know-it-all Lone Ranger, I also am looking for feedback from others that may have ideas. Going to MT with an unrealistic request or one that was not fully thought out, would just be a waste of their time. This thread was not meant to point out inferiorities in a protocol or product. It was meant to find ways for innovation and improvement. Believe me, when I got something to ask for, or something to complain about, I have no problem going direct to the manufacturer in a flash, but I need help from my peers for developing ideas. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Butch Evans" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools On Sun, 17 Feb 2008, Tom DeReggi wrote: I concur with Travis, on what we'd like to see happen, but... I'd add that what he asks for may not be realistic or meaningful for MT. As I said several days ago...you will NOT see this function unless you ask MikroTik. [EMAIL PROTECTED]. It does not currently exist in the way you say you want it. IF you want this, then you must ask for it. There are several options I presented for getting some of the data, but you didn't like that idea either. Sounds to me like you are just wanting to complain. -- *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS* *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] pcb
Tom, One thing I did when I was building StarOS radios was use one mounting screw per board. Partly I was doing that because I thought the board should be grounded to the case, but it also would have helped if the glue failed on the plastic standoffs. Also, I'm not sure what the bad effects would be if the glue failed. The standoffs would prevent the board from shorting out on the bottom, enough other components would prevent it from shorting on the top (probably). The stiff ethernet cable would sort of keep it in position. (in a DCE anyway, maybe a Rootenna would provide too much wiggle room) But I didn't build enough of them, or have them in service long enough to draw any conclusions. Or rather, I came to the conclusion that I hated u.FL connectors; and assembled Lucaya M1208 radios were way better! On February 17, at 6:24 PM February 17, Tom DeReggi wrote: Well, I guess an alternative is that if Plastic cases are used, there wouldn't be much risk if the standoffs fell off. Next trip up, just bring new standoffs and restick. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] pcb Ask Tony Morella
Question was. Do they last? In the heat, in the cold?? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We don't use them that much anymore in the new product lines but we do have stock they are .25 each less than 100 and 20 each with 100+. You can call and talk to one of our sales reps to order just reference part number MF-SLAD250ADH. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com http://www.demarctech.com This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient and receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute a loss of the confidential or privileged nature of the communication. Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender by return electronic mail and delete all copies of this communication From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] pcb Ask Tony Morella It was suppose to say Have you had a problem Tony? Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Demarctech has used them for a couple years. Have you had a problem. I have not had a problem with the ones in the Demarctech products. Brian Tom DeReggi wrote: Well, I'd rather ask... How have the adhesive backed mounts been working out? I'm afraid to use them. We use the little golden metal standoffs, bolt them in, and water proof. Afraid the board will come loose and short out, after significant heat or cold or moisture. Accident waiting to happen, a year down the road. How long are they holding up? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] pcb Let me know when you order. They have a min order number. I got some a couple yrs ago and sold a bunch. I think you had to order 500-1000. Now I am a little low. I might take some off your hands if you don't want that many. Brian Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, Who sells the plastic 3M PCB with adhesive backing? Like for mounting routerboards inside cases? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] pcb Ask Tony Morella
I've used them for a few years now and can't recall seeing any of the larger sized bases come unglued from the enclosure. I use these everywhere, all I use is boards and rootennas. The ones that have failed are the skinnier small based ones. I've seen that when it got too cold inside a nema enclosure the boards fall. This has happened multiple times. To fix that situation, we use caulk. We put a big wad of caulk at the base of the mount and stick it to the enclosure. If the enclosure is in use, I use strips of duct tape to hold everything in place till the caulk dries. If it's in a unit I'm building on the bench, and I've done this a lot to reuse old plastic mounts, is I just lay it down and let it cure, about 24hours or so. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Question was. Do they last? In the heat, in the cold?? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We don't use them that much anymore in the new product lines but we do have stock they are .25 each less than 100 and 20 each with 100+. You can call and talk to one of our sales reps to order just reference part number MF-SLAD250ADH. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com http://www.demarctech.com This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient and receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute a loss of the confidential or privileged nature of the communication. Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender by return electronic mail and delete all copies of this communication From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] pcb Ask Tony Morella It was suppose to say Have you had a problem Tony? Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Demarctech has used them for a couple years. Have you had a problem. I have not had a problem with the ones in the Demarctech products. Brian Tom DeReggi wrote: Well, I'd rather ask... How have the adhesive backed mounts been working out? I'm afraid to use them. We use the little golden metal standoffs, bolt them in, and water proof. Afraid the board will come loose and short out, after significant heat or cold or moisture. Accident waiting to happen, a year down the road. How long are they holding up? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] pcb Let me know when you order. They have a min order number. I got some a couple yrs ago and sold a bunch. I think you had to order 500-1000. Now I am a little low. I might take some off your hands if you don't want that many. Brian Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, Who sells the plastic 3M PCB with adhesive backing? Like for mounting routerboards inside cases? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] pcb
One nice thing about the new 4 ports in the enclosure, they use the metal standoffs we are suposed to be using, so it's grounded like you said in various spots on the board. John Valenti wrote: Tom, One thing I did when I was building StarOS radios was use one mounting screw per board. Partly I was doing that because I thought the board should be grounded to the case, but it also would have helped if the glue failed on the plastic standoffs. Also, I'm not sure what the bad effects would be if the glue failed. The standoffs would prevent the board from shorting out on the bottom, enough other components would prevent it from shorting on the top (probably). The stiff ethernet cable would sort of keep it in position. (in a DCE anyway, maybe a Rootenna would provide too much wiggle room) But I didn't build enough of them, or have them in service long enough to draw any conclusions. Or rather, I came to the conclusion that I hated u.FL connectors; and assembled Lucaya M1208 radios were way better! On February 17, at 6:24 PM February 17, Tom DeReggi wrote: Well, I guess an alternative is that if Plastic cases are used, there wouldn't be much risk if the standoffs fell off. Next trip up, just bring new standoffs and restick. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik] PCQ Question
Well, I feel like an idiot. The Internal and External interfaces were labeled incorrectly (or the cables were plugged in the wrong way, take your pick). I now have it working as expected the setup below does work. Not sure why it was exhibiting the behavior it was, but I didn't spend the time investigating once I got it fixed. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Sam Tetherow wrote: I've been trying to help another WISP with a new bandwidth limiter since their ancient YDI box finally died. The BCU did everything via mac-address so I've set up mangle rules for src-mac-address to mark the connection and then mark all packets in each connection so that they can have rate plans based by mac address. This part is working great. However they want to limit all unknown mac addresses to 64k/64k. I thought the best way to do this would be to set up a mangle rule at the beginning of the vlan chain to mark all packets as unknown. Then let the src-mac mangle rules remark all known packets to their plans. Next I would have a queue tree for each vlan interface with the unknown packet mark and limit it to a PCQ queue. The problem I'm running into is that all packets are being shaped by the PCQ. If the PCQ rates are higher than the individual rates then the individual rates apply, but if the PCQ rates are lower then they are restricting things. Either I'm not following how the PCQ queue should work or I've missed something simple. Here is the setup: The MT is bridging several VLANs across 2 ethernet ports and all the traffic is managed on a per vlan basis otherwise the mangle rules bring the router to it's knees. /ip firewall mangle add chain=forward in-interface=vlan2 action=jump jump-target=vlan2 # Mangle rules for marking traffic /ip firewall mangle add chain=vlan2 action=mark-packet new-packet-mark=unknown_user passthrough=yes /ip firewall mangle add chain=vlan2 src-mac-address=00:40:96:44:59:6F action=mark-connection new-connection-mark=cid1 passthrough=yes /ip firewall mangle add chain=vlan2 connection-mark=cid1 action=mark-packet new-packet-mark=cid1 passthrough=no ... # PCQ Queue Types /queue type add name=pcq-upload kind=pcq pcq-rate=64000 pcq-limit=50 pcq-classifier=dst-address pcq-total-limit=2000 /queue type add name=pcq-download kind=pcq pcq-rate=64000 pcq-limit=50 pcq-classifier=src-address pcq-total-limit=2000 # Default PCQ Queue for unknown MACs /queue tree add name=vlan2-default-upload parent=vlan2-External packet-mark=unknown_user queue=pcq-upload /queue tree add name=vlan2-default-download parent=vlan2-Internal packet-mark=unknown_user queue-pcq-download # Queue for CID1 /queue tree add name=cid1-U parent=vlan2-External packet-mark=cid1 max-limit=128000 /queue tree add name=cid1-D parent=vlan2-Internal packet-mark=cid1 max-limit=512000 In the above scenario CID1 will be limited by the PCQ to 64k/64k, but if I up the pcq-rate to be 1M/1M then CID1 will be limited at the correct 512k/128k. It acts like the PCQ is ignoring the packet-mark and catching all packets. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've tried moving the unknown_user managle to the bottom of the mangle chain but that hasn't helped either. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive?
I was looking around for a method to keep at least my backbone running during an extended power outage. (we have had ice storms take out power for 4 - 7 days). It seemed like the small generators might be a solution, the Honda/ etc name brand ones seem to be ~$600 for 1000 watts. And I found a company that sells Yamaha 1000W generators converted to dual fuel (NG or propane) for about $1000. They also sell a 2400 watt generator that is triple fuel, gas/NG/propane that is tempting, even at $1600. But then I ran across some imported 2 stroke, 1000 watt generators. Harbor Freight has them in their catalog for about $150. I found a similar one in a local store that is on sale for $99. The box says it will run for 8 hours on tank of gas (at half load, 1.25 gallons). These imported ones just seem like they are too cheap. And I'm not too fond of 2 stokes. That Yamaha dealer warns that the cheap generators are only designed to last 150 hours - but maybe 150 hours for $100 isn't too bad a deal. Just wondering if anyone has thoughts or experiences on this issue. thanks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] pcb
Mike Hammett wrote: In the RooTenna or in the DCE? In their new enclosure. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] pcb
In the RooTenna or in the DCE? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] pcb One nice thing about the new 4 ports in the enclosure, they use the metal standoffs we are suposed to be using, so it's grounded like you said in various spots on the board. John Valenti wrote: Tom, One thing I did when I was building StarOS radios was use one mounting screw per board. Partly I was doing that because I thought the board should be grounded to the case, but it also would have helped if the glue failed on the plastic standoffs. Also, I'm not sure what the bad effects would be if the glue failed. The standoffs would prevent the board from shorting out on the bottom, enough other components would prevent it from shorting on the top (probably). The stiff ethernet cable would sort of keep it in position. (in a DCE anyway, maybe a Rootenna would provide too much wiggle room) But I didn't build enough of them, or have them in service long enough to draw any conclusions. Or rather, I came to the conclusion that I hated u.FL connectors; and assembled Lucaya M1208 radios were way better! On February 17, at 6:24 PM February 17, Tom DeReggi wrote: Well, I guess an alternative is that if Plastic cases are used, there wouldn't be much risk if the standoffs fell off. Next trip up, just bring new standoffs and restick. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive?
John, We have a unit that I paid about $300 for from Tractor Supply. It is made by Champion Tools and has 3500 watts continuous with a 4000 watt surge capacity. It has a LOT more than 150 hours on it without a bit of problems. They key in my mind and from talking to others is keeping it properly maintained. Regular oil changes, running it under load every month for maybe 10 minutes or so. I use it for extended power outages and my motor home for awhile now without any problems. Sounds like the Yamaha dealer is trying to make a sale? John Valenti wrote: I was looking around for a method to keep at least my backbone running during an extended power outage. (we have had ice storms take out power for 4 - 7 days). It seemed like the small generators might be a solution, the Honda/ etc name brand ones seem to be ~$600 for 1000 watts. And I found a company that sells Yamaha 1000W generators converted to dual fuel (NG or propane) for about $1000. They also sell a 2400 watt generator that is triple fuel, gas/NG/propane that is tempting, even at $1600. But then I ran across some imported 2 stroke, 1000 watt generators. Harbor Freight has them in their catalog for about $150. I found a similar one in a local store that is on sale for $99. The box says it will run for 8 hours on tank of gas (at half load, 1.25 gallons). These imported ones just seem like they are too cheap. And I'm not too fond of 2 stokes. That Yamaha dealer warns that the cheap generators are only designed to last 150 hours - but maybe 150 hours for $100 isn't too bad a deal. Just wondering if anyone has thoughts or experiences on this issue. thanks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive?
If you are powering anything but a rectifier to charge batteries, look for a generator with inverter technology such as the honda EU series. Most portable generators don't have the voltage or frequency regulation stability to keep UPSes or sensitive electronics running. Inverter generators produce their AC waveform with power electronics that keep it at a constant voltage and frequency even if the engine runs like crap. I bought a kipor inverter generator (chinese honda clone) that seems to be a pretty good unit. It kept the NOC essentials running during a simultaneous utility power and standby generator failure a few weeks ago. Also, you can add external fuel tanks to get 36 hours of runtime. Patrick -Original Message- From: John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:40:41 To:WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive? I was looking around for a method to keep at least my backbone running during an extended power outage. (we have had ice storms take out power for 4 - 7 days). It seemed like the small generators might be a solution, the Honda/ etc name brand ones seem to be ~$600 for 1000 watts. And I found a company that sells Yamaha 1000W generators converted to dual fuel (NG or propane) for about $1000. They also sell a 2400 watt generator that is triple fuel, gas/NG/propane that is tempting, even at $1600. But then I ran across some imported 2 stroke, 1000 watt generators. Harbor Freight has them in their catalog for about $150. I found a similar one in a local store that is on sale for $99. The box says it will run for 8 hours on tank of gas (at half load, 1.25 gallons). These imported ones just seem like they are too cheap. And I'm not too fond of 2 stokes. That Yamaha dealer warns that the cheap generators are only designed to last 150 hours - but maybe 150 hours for $100 isn't too bad a deal. Just wondering if anyone has thoughts or experiences on this issue. thanks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive?
I have used 10 cents per watt as a good value for manual start, small generator. 15 cents per watt for larger units with electric start. (10 kW and larger) 20 cents per watt for larger units with automatic start (new without transfer switch). 25 cents to 30 cents per watt for larger units with automatic start and transfer switch, crankcase heaters, trickle chargers etc etc. I formulated this rule of thumb pricing about 10 years ago, so it may be off a little. I use a similar rule of thumb for storage batteries. 10-20 cents per watt hour. - Original Message - From: Tim Kerns [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive? John, We had to run for over a month on generator at the end of last year. (long story but the place where we contract for one of our towers defaulted on their loan and the bank took over it took over a month and a break in to get the power restored). My point was we used one of the 1000 watt generators from harbor freight, the one with the Subaru engine. We ran this round the clock, the tank on them will run about 5-6 hours depending on load. We took a 5 gallon can, made a spout and connected this to the engine input, bypassing the tank. This gave us plenty of run time, but still needed to refill daily. The first generator lasted about 2 weeks before it was stolen (remember the break-in above), we replaced with the same model and ran it for another 2 weeks. I was really surprised at it's ability to last that long and expected it to die after a few days. We found it did use oil and the automatic low oil sensor did shut us down once. After that we added oil every 2-3 days. - Original Message - From: John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 2:40 PM Subject: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive? I was looking around for a method to keep at least my backbone running during an extended power outage. (we have had ice storms take out power for 4 - 7 days). It seemed like the small generators might be a solution, the Honda/ etc name brand ones seem to be ~$600 for 1000 watts. And I found a company that sells Yamaha 1000W generators converted to dual fuel (NG or propane) for about $1000. They also sell a 2400 watt generator that is triple fuel, gas/NG/propane that is tempting, even at $1600. But then I ran across some imported 2 stroke, 1000 watt generators. Harbor Freight has them in their catalog for about $150. I found a similar one in a local store that is on sale for $99. The box says it will run for 8 hours on tank of gas (at half load, 1.25 gallons). These imported ones just seem like they are too cheap. And I'm not too fond of 2 stokes. That Yamaha dealer warns that the cheap generators are only designed to last 150 hours - but maybe 150 hours for $100 isn't too bad a deal. Just wondering if anyone has thoughts or experiences on this issue. thanks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive?
John, We had to run for over a month on generator at the end of last year. (long story but the place where we contract for one of our towers defaulted on their loan and the bank took over it took over a month and a break in to get the power restored). My point was we used one of the 1000 watt generators from harbor freight, the one with the Subaru engine. We ran this round the clock, the tank on them will run about 5-6 hours depending on load. We took a 5 gallon can, made a spout and connected this to the engine input, bypassing the tank. This gave us plenty of run time, but still needed to refill daily. The first generator lasted about 2 weeks before it was stolen (remember the break-in above), we replaced with the same model and ran it for another 2 weeks. I was really surprised at it's ability to last that long and expected it to die after a few days. We found it did use oil and the automatic low oil sensor did shut us down once. After that we added oil every 2-3 days. - Original Message - From: John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 2:40 PM Subject: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive? I was looking around for a method to keep at least my backbone running during an extended power outage. (we have had ice storms take out power for 4 - 7 days). It seemed like the small generators might be a solution, the Honda/ etc name brand ones seem to be ~$600 for 1000 watts. And I found a company that sells Yamaha 1000W generators converted to dual fuel (NG or propane) for about $1000. They also sell a 2400 watt generator that is triple fuel, gas/NG/propane that is tempting, even at $1600. But then I ran across some imported 2 stroke, 1000 watt generators. Harbor Freight has them in their catalog for about $150. I found a similar one in a local store that is on sale for $99. The box says it will run for 8 hours on tank of gas (at half load, 1.25 gallons). These imported ones just seem like they are too cheap. And I'm not too fond of 2 stokes. That Yamaha dealer warns that the cheap generators are only designed to last 150 hours - but maybe 150 hours for $100 isn't too bad a deal. Just wondering if anyone has thoughts or experiences on this issue. thanks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive?
I have a pull start Generac unit. It's a 5kw (6500 surge). I bought it from a guy that bought it for the y2k thing then never used it. I've only had the system on it once so far and it worked fine. I'll not buy another pull start 10 horse motor though. It's hard to start after sitting for a while (use Staybil in it) and ether is almost a must. It's also very noisy, even after I built a new muffler for it. For my next one I'm gonna look for an RV unit and put it on a trailer. That'll be quiet, can hold lots of gas and will be one person mobile. I agree with others that looking for one with an inverter is probably a good idea. Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 2:40 PM Subject: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive? I was looking around for a method to keep at least my backbone running during an extended power outage. (we have had ice storms take out power for 4 - 7 days). It seemed like the small generators might be a solution, the Honda/ etc name brand ones seem to be ~$600 for 1000 watts. And I found a company that sells Yamaha 1000W generators converted to dual fuel (NG or propane) for about $1000. They also sell a 2400 watt generator that is triple fuel, gas/NG/propane that is tempting, even at $1600. But then I ran across some imported 2 stroke, 1000 watt generators. Harbor Freight has them in their catalog for about $150. I found a similar one in a local store that is on sale for $99. The box says it will run for 8 hours on tank of gas (at half load, 1.25 gallons). These imported ones just seem like they are too cheap. And I'm not too fond of 2 stokes. That Yamaha dealer warns that the cheap generators are only designed to last 150 hours - but maybe 150 hours for $100 isn't too bad a deal. Just wondering if anyone has thoughts or experiences on this issue. thanks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive?
The LP or Natural Gas is the way to go. Normally, 100 lbs tanks are simple and cheap, here around 60 bucks delivered. It will run a generate for a good number of hours. A customer put in a 15k auto gen found it on e-bay delivered for 2500 bucks! Ran his NOC twice for 5-6 days each. Has a 250 tank though for his home heat and range, but other than that, they came out, hooked up and filled it without him getting out in the cold. Ran like a champ. Keep in mind for this kind of money, it should have the auto start and transfer switch, also, something to look for in a larger unit is a auto test. This unit once a week starts and runs for 5 min. Something you can do with the Nat gas route, is if you have it near your tower, just get them to hook you up. Then, no gas to worry about, let'er run! Dennis Burgess Link Technologies, Inc. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 7:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive? We had a similar experience. We ran our site for 5 months on a combination of batteries and generators. I second the Honda EU and/or Yamaha. They are inverter based and do make a better sine wave, or cleaner power. I also noticed we could run our site 8 hrs on a tank of 2.5 gallons on the Honda 2000 EU, or we could run 8 hrs on a 5 gallon tank with a 5000 watt larger generator. You definately get what you pay for!!! Get at least one Honda 2k (or Yamaha) and then buy a couple backups of the cheap $150-200 generators. Maintain all of them and you should do ok. Thanks, Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Tim Kerns Sent: Mon 2/18/2008 6:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive? John, We had to run for over a month on generator at the end of last year. (long story but the place where we contract for one of our towers defaulted on their loan and the bank took over it took over a month and a break in to get the power restored). My point was we used one of the 1000 watt generators from harbor freight, the one with the Subaru engine. We ran this round the clock, the tank on them will run about 5-6 hours depending on load. We took a 5 gallon can, made a spout and connected this to the engine input, bypassing the tank. This gave us plenty of run time, but still needed to refill daily. The first generator lasted about 2 weeks before it was stolen (remember the break-in above), we replaced with the same model and ran it for another 2 weeks. I was really surprised at it's ability to last that long and expected it to die after a few days. We found it did use oil and the automatic low oil sensor did shut us down once. After that we added oil every 2-3 days. - Original Message - From: John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 2:40 PM Subject: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive? I was looking around for a method to keep at least my backbone running during an extended power outage. (we have had ice storms take out power for 4 - 7 days). It seemed like the small generators might be a solution, the Honda/ etc name brand ones seem to be ~$600 for 1000 watts. And I found a company that sells Yamaha 1000W generators converted to dual fuel (NG or propane) for about $1000. They also sell a 2400 watt generator that is triple fuel, gas/NG/propane that is tempting, even at $1600. But then I ran across some imported 2 stroke, 1000 watt generators. Harbor Freight has them in their catalog for about $150. I found a similar one in a local store that is on sale for $99. The box says it will run for 8 hours on tank of gas (at half load, 1.25 gallons). These imported ones just seem like they are too cheap. And I'm not too fond of 2 stokes. That Yamaha dealer warns that the cheap generators are only designed to last 150 hours - but maybe 150 hours for $100 isn't too bad a deal. Just wondering if anyone has thoughts or experiences on this issue. thanks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive?
I remember coming across this gas generator last year: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=539 There is cheaper ones but they also include the automatic transfer switch which is usually a big expense it self. Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net wrote: The LP or Natural Gas is the way to go. Normally, 100 lbs tanks are simple and cheap, here around 60 bucks delivered. It will run a generate for a good number of hours. A customer put in a 15k auto gen found it on e-bay delivered for 2500 bucks! Ran his NOC twice for 5-6 days each. Has a 250 tank though for his home heat and range, but other than that, they came out, hooked up and filled it without him getting out in the cold. Ran like a champ. Keep in mind for this kind of money, it should have the auto start and transfer switch, also, something to look for in a larger unit is a auto test. This unit once a week starts and runs for 5 min. Something you can do with the Nat gas route, is if you have it near your tower, just get them to hook you up. Then, no gas to worry about, let'er run! Dennis Burgess Link Technologies, Inc. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 7:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive? We had a similar experience. We ran our site for 5 months on a combination of batteries and generators. I second the Honda EU and/or Yamaha. They are inverter based and do make a better sine wave, or cleaner power. I also noticed we could run our site 8 hrs on a tank of 2.5 gallons on the Honda 2000 EU, or we could run 8 hrs on a 5 gallon tank with a 5000 watt larger generator. You definately get what you pay for!!! Get at least one Honda 2k (or Yamaha) and then buy a couple backups of the cheap $150-200 generators. Maintain all of them and you should do ok. Thanks, Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Tim Kerns Sent: Mon 2/18/2008 6:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive? John, We had to run for over a month on generator at the end of last year. (long story but the place where we contract for one of our towers defaulted on their loan and the bank took over it took over a month and a break in to get the power restored). My point was we used one of the 1000 watt generators from harbor freight, the one with the Subaru engine. We ran this round the clock, the tank on them will run about 5-6 hours depending on load. We took a 5 gallon can, made a spout and connected this to the engine input, bypassing the tank. This gave us plenty of run time, but still needed to refill daily. The first generator lasted about 2 weeks before it was stolen (remember the break-in above), we replaced with the same model and ran it for another 2 weeks. I was really surprised at it's ability to last that long and expected it to die after a few days. We found it did use oil and the automatic low oil sensor did shut us down once. After that we added oil every 2-3 days. - Original Message - From: John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 2:40 PM Subject: [WISPA] Small generators - cheap or inexpensive? I was looking around for a method to keep at least my backbone running during an extended power outage. (we have had ice storms take out power for 4 - 7 days). It seemed like the small generators might be a solution, the Honda/ etc name brand ones seem to be ~$600 for 1000 watts. And I found a company that sells Yamaha 1000W generators converted to dual fuel (NG or propane) for about $1000. They also sell a 2400 watt generator that is triple fuel, gas/NG/propane that is tempting, even at $1600. But then I ran across some imported 2 stroke, 1000 watt generators. Harbor Freight has them in their catalog for about $150. I found a similar one in a local store that is on sale for $99. The box says it will run for 8 hours on tank of gas (at half load, 1.25 gallons). These imported ones just seem like they are too cheap. And I'm not too fond of 2 stokes. That Yamaha dealer warns that the cheap generators are only designed to last 150 hours - but maybe 150 hours for $100 isn't too bad a deal. Just wondering if anyone has thoughts or experiences on this issue. thanks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
