[WISPA] iperf howto

[Rogelio]

I recently stumbled across this great iperf HOWTO (for calculating 
throughput)

http://www.egee-npm.org/e2emonit/download/older/HOWTO-edg-iperf-1.2.4.txt

Haven't tried it yet, but I expect to soon...



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Re: [WISPA] How much data

[Rogelio]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Ok silly question that has probably been asked a million times. But if a
> user had a 1M connection how much data in Megs could he transfer if it ran
> at maximum capacity for 24 hours?

A 1Mbps connection, right?

1 byte / 8 bits = 1/8 MB

therefore,

1 megabit = 8 megabytes, which translates into .125 MB/s

(mega means "thousand")

There are about 1000 megabytes in a gigabyte (1024 KB * 1024 KB, to be 
exact)

1/8 MB/s * 60 seconds * 60 minutes * 24 hours per day = 10,800 MB/day

Or, roughly, about 11 GBs (about 2 to 3 DVDs worth of info).

make sense?



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Re: [WISPA] OT - Patrick has left Alvarion

[Scottie Arnett]

Hey Patrick, any chance of going to Moto and convincing them to get their 900 
product, or for that matter, all their product up to par as far as pps and 
bandwidth goes compared to what Alvarion was releasing when you left? It would 
be nice, but I know they WERE a large part of your competition at one time or 
another at Alvarion. I am a strictly Moto WISP, but had really considered 
Alvarion a few times from your posts...only thing was I could not justify the 
costs in my market. Good luck in all your future endeavors!

Scott

-- Original Message --
From: Butch Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:40:05 -0500 (CDT)

>On Mon, 16 Jun 2008, Patrick Leary wrote:
>
>>Sorry for the OT post, but I wanted to inform the community that I 
>>have left Alvarion after 10 years. I have also moved back to
>
>I think that there are very few things that I could read about that 
>would be more surprising than this.  Perhaps that is just an 
>"outsiders view"...  Either way, Patrick, I wish you the best of 
>luck with your new venture and am (most certainly) glad to hear that 
>you will still be part of the industry.  You have been a critical 
>component in the overall development in the industry and I am 
>certain that Alvarion will sorely miss your insights.
>
>>My company name will be Sageni. Sageni will focus on market insight 
>>& strategy, technology & regulatory consulting, marketing support & 
>>research.
>
>Mind offering a phonetic pronounciation of the company name?  It is 
>an interesting choice to say the least.  I suspect it is a word from 
>another language that I cannot guess...
>
>-- 
>
>*Butch Evans   *Professional Network Consultation *
>*Network Engineering   *MikroTik RouterOS *
>*573-276-2879  *ImageStream   *
>*http://www.butchevans.com/*StarOS and MORE   *
>*Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks*
>
>
>
>
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>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
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Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth.
Check out www.info-ed.com for information.



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Re: [WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links

[CHUCK PROFITO]

Thank you, we'll look into it

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:09 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links

Trango 45 is supposed to do 45 Mbps at 45 miles for less than $2K per 
system.

- Original Message - 
From: "CHUCK PROFITO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links


> Travis,
> What would you use or be cost effective, to get 50Mbps throughput 27 miles
>
> Chuck Profito
> 209-988-7388
> CV-ACCESS, INC
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Providing High Speed Broadband
> to Rural Central California
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:08 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links
>
> Dragonwave has been our best radio ever. 18ghz with 2ft dishes shooting
> 13 miles for 9 months without missing a single ping. We push about
> 50Mbps across it daily.
>
> Trango also has their 18ghz product that is less money than Dragonwave.
> You can purchase a Trango 100Mbps 18ghz set with 2ft dishes for less
> than $15k. Upgrade to 300Mbps full duplex is $3,000 extra (software key,
> so can be added later).
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> RickG wrote:
>> Any opinions on 100Mbps radios for mission critical 100Mbps PTP links?
>> I need to go 10-15 miles. Licensed or unlicensed OK.
>>
>> -RickG
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
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Re: [WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links

[Chuck McCown - 2]

Trango 45 is supposed to do 45 Mbps at 45 miles for less than $2K per 
system.

- Original Message - 
From: "CHUCK PROFITO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links


> Travis,
> What would you use or be cost effective, to get 50Mbps throughput 27 miles
>
> Chuck Profito
> 209-988-7388
> CV-ACCESS, INC
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Providing High Speed Broadband
> to Rural Central California
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:08 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links
>
> Dragonwave has been our best radio ever. 18ghz with 2ft dishes shooting
> 13 miles for 9 months without missing a single ping. We push about
> 50Mbps across it daily.
>
> Trango also has their 18ghz product that is less money than Dragonwave.
> You can purchase a Trango 100Mbps 18ghz set with 2ft dishes for less
> than $15k. Upgrade to 300Mbps full duplex is $3,000 extra (software key,
> so can be added later).
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> RickG wrote:
>> Any opinions on 100Mbps radios for mission critical 100Mbps PTP links?
>> I need to go 10-15 miles. Licensed or unlicensed OK.
>>
>> -RickG
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
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>>
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Re: [WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links

[Chuck McCown - 2]

How critical?
Harris Constellation full hot standby space diversity is about as mission 
critical as you can get with microwave.
That would be licensed.
A little less critical would be Dragonwave.  We use them and love them.  Put 
up a double set redundant system with STP.
Trango 18 GHz stuff seems to be working well for us as well.  Lower cost. 
Again, redundant with STP/OSPF type of stuff.
Then lower cost yet would be Orthogon.
You can get 100 Mbps on all of those (at least I think you can on the 
Trango, not totally sure).

If this is a link that is involved in launching nuclear missiles or keeping 
air traffic control operational, I would bury fiber backed up with Harris.
What is critical to you may not be critical to the next guy.

- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:03 PM
Subject: [WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links


> Any opinions on 100Mbps radios for mission critical 100Mbps PTP links?
> I need to go 10-15 miles. Licensed or unlicensed OK.
>
> -RickG
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links

[CHUCK PROFITO]

Travis, 
What would you use or be cost effective, to get 50Mbps throughput 27 miles

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links

Dragonwave has been our best radio ever. 18ghz with 2ft dishes shooting 
13 miles for 9 months without missing a single ping. We push about 
50Mbps across it daily.

Trango also has their 18ghz product that is less money than Dragonwave. 
You can purchase a Trango 100Mbps 18ghz set with 2ft dishes for less 
than $15k. Upgrade to 300Mbps full duplex is $3,000 extra (software key, 
so can be added later).

Travis
Microserv

RickG wrote:
> Any opinions on 100Mbps radios for mission critical 100Mbps PTP links?
> I need to go 10-15 miles. Licensed or unlicensed OK.
>
> -RickG
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links

[Travis Johnson]

Dragonwave has been our best radio ever. 18ghz with 2ft dishes shooting 
13 miles for 9 months without missing a single ping. We push about 
50Mbps across it daily.

Trango also has their 18ghz product that is less money than Dragonwave. 
You can purchase a Trango 100Mbps 18ghz set with 2ft dishes for less 
than $15k. Upgrade to 300Mbps full duplex is $3,000 extra (software key, 
so can be added later).

Travis
Microserv

RickG wrote:
> Any opinions on 100Mbps radios for mission critical 100Mbps PTP links?
> I need to go 10-15 miles. Licensed or unlicensed OK.
>
> -RickG
>
>
> 
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>   



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[WISPA] mission critical 100Mbps links

[RickG]

Any opinions on 100Mbps radios for mission critical 100Mbps PTP links?
I need to go 10-15 miles. Licensed or unlicensed OK.

-RickG



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Re: [WISPA] How much data

[Ryan Langseth]

Here is another one (written by a friend of mine) it will calculate the 
missing value (time, speed, or size)

http://therub.org/calc/

another good option is google calc:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Cd7&q=1+Mbps+*+24+hours&btnG=Search

10.587 GB


Ryan*
*
D. Ryan Spott wrote:
> There is a handy calculator here:
> http://www.tranzeofaq.com/bandwidthcalc.html
>
> ryan
>
>
> On Jun 17, 2008, at 6:55 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>   
>> Ok silly question that has probably been asked a million times. But  
>> if a
>> user had a 1M connection how much data in Megs could he transfer if  
>> it ran
>> at maximum capacity for 24 hours?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John Buwa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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-- 
Ryan Langseth
System Administrator
InvisiMax
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: 218.745.6030
Cell: 701.739.1577




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Re: [WISPA] modulation question

[Chuck McCown - 2]

Each system is different as to the number of carriers and a different number 
of modulation levels on the carriers.

Basically it is Shannon's law which defines the maximum rate of data that 
can be transmitted over a channel.  But no real system can hit the Shannon 
limit.  The imperfections in the demodulators vary from manufacturer.

The simple answer is the more you try to pump through, the more signal you 
need.  Shannon's law contains a signal to noise ratio as one of the 
components.  If you want to have more throughput, you have to have more 
signal or less noise.

The short answer is, read the manual.  I would hope they are all 
conservative on the published signal levels needed for the different bit 
rates.

As far as DSSS goes, I really don't know if the Shannon formula applies or 
not.  Hmmm...

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question


> Chuck,
>
> Nice posts! Thanks for the clarification.(PS. I clearly had some
> misunderstanding/FUD in my last post, regarding QAM.)
>
> While you are at it
>
> Can you comment a bit on OFDM, regarding the math, of what occurs to power
> levels as it divides into subcarriers and recombines on the receive end.
>
> There was a good post on the STAROS forums about it a year or so ago, but 
> I
> couldn't find it again to repost to this list.
> It brought forth some relevent info on how to correctly do link budget
> calculations and what RSSI should be expected considering OFDM versus DSSS
> style gear.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question
>
>
>> >what is a sub carrier?
>>
>> For IP guys, think of VLANs.  You can cram a bunch of VLANs on an 
>> Ethernet
>> link.  Each VLAN appears to be its own Ethernet link.  But to the trunk,
>> all
>> the VLANs appear just to be payload data.
>>
>> Same thing with RF.  The on-the-air signal is modulated.  OFDM or FM (or
>> morse code or AM or whatever) method.  That is the Ethernet.  Inside that
>> modulation, if you pick it apart, you may find the raw data (like Canopy
>> does) or you may find other modulated signals (like the VLAN) that have 
>> to
>> be further demodulated (QAM on OFDM like Orthogon).
>>
>> QAM methods are used to cram a ton of information on a link.  Whether it
>> is
>> on the raw RF signal on in a subcarrier.  But they are not as robust as
>> simple direct modulation.  But there is always a tradeoff.
>>
>> The following is not really accurate but it may give a data guy another
>> way
>> of thinking about it.
>> Level 12.4 GHz RF using antennas
>> Level 2OFDM modulation on the RF
>> Level 2 VLANsQAM Sub Carriers
>> Level 3Ethernet data
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question
>>
>>
>>> Bryan Scott brought up an important point:
>>> You can put QAM subcarriers on OFDM.
>>>
>>> But you can put almost any other type of subcarrier on OFDM too.
>>> That may be a confusing thing.  OFDM is method of putting multiple FM
>>> modulated carriers on the air.  Almost like sending multiple channels
>>> containing their own info and then combining all the channels at the far
>>> end.  Those channels can have QAM subcarriers, but the RF is still FM
>>> modulated, not QAM modulated.  That may be confusing to some.  The FM
>>> modulation of OFDM gives it the inherent advantage of angle only
>>> modulation
>>> methods.
>>>
>>> Then there are systems that use QAM to modulate the RF.  Those systems
>>> are
>>> less resistant to link problems but are one of the best ways to cram a
>>> bunch
>>> of data on the link.  (V.90 dial up modems are a good example).  When
>>> they
>>> added color to the B&W TV signal, they used a QAM method.  The original
>>> stereo AM radio signal was QAM.  Cable modems use QAM.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 11:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question
>>>
>>>
I think some disambiguation may be in order.
 QAM is a vector modulation method:.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_diagram
 It shares almost nothing with OFDM methods.

 Irrespective, all receivers (CW, AM, FM, SSB, VSB, angle modulation,
 OFDM,
 QAM, TCM, etc) can have an RSSI output from the AGC, limiter or
 demodulator.

 Strictly speaking it only means Received Signal Strength Indicator.  It
 is
 modulation agnostic.  It is not related to the modulation.

 - Original Message - 
 From: "Tom DeR

Re: [WISPA] How much data

[D. Ryan Spott]

There is a handy calculator here:
http://www.tranzeofaq.com/bandwidthcalc.html

ryan


On Jun 17, 2008, at 6:55 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ok silly question that has probably been asked a million times. But  
> if a
> user had a 1M connection how much data in Megs could he transfer if  
> it ran
> at maximum capacity for 24 hours?
>
> Thanks,
> John Buwa
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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[WISPA] How much data

[Sales]

Ok silly question that has probably been asked a million times. But if a
user had a 1M connection how much data in Megs could he transfer if it ran
at maximum capacity for 24 hours?

Thanks,
John Buwa





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[WISPA] Investors buy Philly Wi-Fi Network

[Jack Unger]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080618/ap_on_hi_te/wireless_philadelphia;_ylt=AudeGoT7bGbEU4NC4Yj1qJNk24cA

-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting
FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile 
Phone 818-227-4220  Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>






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Re: [WISPA] OT - Patrick has left Alvarion

[Tom DeReggi]

I'm glad some one asked. Great name!

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT - Patrick has left Alvarion


> Thanks Butch. It is actually a surprise to even some Alvarion insiders, 
> many
> of whom did not know until last night when I sent a message to Alvarion
> folks.
>
> The name "Sageni" is a hybrid of the words "sage" and "genie." I made it 
> up.
> It is meant to imply something along the lines of the insights and 
> knowledge
> you need and the can-do and at-your-service attitude of a genie. The
> pronounciation is simple -- say-gen-ee. No matter ones native language, 
> most
> anyone from anywhere should be able to pronounce it. I spent hours one 
> night
> thinking of names and hunting for an open URL. Amazingly, this simple six
> letter combo www.sageni.com was not taken.
>
> - Patrick
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 12:40 AM, Butch Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008, Patrick Leary wrote:
>>
>> >Sorry for the OT post, but I wanted to inform the community that I
>> >have left Alvarion after 10 years. I have also moved back to
>>
>> I think that there are very few things that I could read about that
>> would be more surprising than this.  Perhaps that is just an
>> "outsiders view"...  Either way, Patrick, I wish you the best of
>> luck with your new venture and am (most certainly) glad to hear that
>> you will still be part of the industry.  You have been a critical
>> component in the overall development in the industry and I am
>> certain that Alvarion will sorely miss your insights.
>>
>> >My company name will be Sageni. Sageni will focus on market insight
>> >& strategy, technology & regulatory consulting, marketing support &
>> >research.
>>
>> Mind offering a phonetic pronounciation of the company name?  It is
>> an interesting choice to say the least.  I suspect it is a word from
>> another language that I cannot guess...
>>
>> --
>> 
>> *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation *
>> *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS *
>> *573-276-2879   *ImageStream   *
>> *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
>> *Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Wired or Wireless Networks*
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
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>>
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>
>
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Re: [WISPA] modulation question

[Tom DeReggi]

Chuck,

Nice posts! Thanks for the clarification.(PS. I clearly had some 
misunderstanding/FUD in my last post, regarding QAM.)

While you are at it

Can you comment a bit on OFDM, regarding the math, of what occurs to power 
levels as it divides into subcarriers and recombines on the receive end.

There was a good post on the STAROS forums about it a year or so ago, but I 
couldn't find it again to repost to this list.
It brought forth some relevent info on how to correctly do link budget 
calculations and what RSSI should be expected considering OFDM versus DSSS 
style gear.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question


> >what is a sub carrier?
>
> For IP guys, think of VLANs.  You can cram a bunch of VLANs on an Ethernet
> link.  Each VLAN appears to be its own Ethernet link.  But to the trunk, 
> all
> the VLANs appear just to be payload data.
>
> Same thing with RF.  The on-the-air signal is modulated.  OFDM or FM (or
> morse code or AM or whatever) method.  That is the Ethernet.  Inside that
> modulation, if you pick it apart, you may find the raw data (like Canopy
> does) or you may find other modulated signals (like the VLAN) that have to
> be further demodulated (QAM on OFDM like Orthogon).
>
> QAM methods are used to cram a ton of information on a link.  Whether it 
> is
> on the raw RF signal on in a subcarrier.  But they are not as robust as
> simple direct modulation.  But there is always a tradeoff.
>
> The following is not really accurate but it may give a data guy another 
> way
> of thinking about it.
> Level 12.4 GHz RF using antennas
> Level 2OFDM modulation on the RF
> Level 2 VLANsQAM Sub Carriers
> Level 3Ethernet data
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question
>
>
>> Bryan Scott brought up an important point:
>> You can put QAM subcarriers on OFDM.
>>
>> But you can put almost any other type of subcarrier on OFDM too.
>> That may be a confusing thing.  OFDM is method of putting multiple FM
>> modulated carriers on the air.  Almost like sending multiple channels
>> containing their own info and then combining all the channels at the far
>> end.  Those channels can have QAM subcarriers, but the RF is still FM
>> modulated, not QAM modulated.  That may be confusing to some.  The FM
>> modulation of OFDM gives it the inherent advantage of angle only
>> modulation
>> methods.
>>
>> Then there are systems that use QAM to modulate the RF.  Those systems 
>> are
>> less resistant to link problems but are one of the best ways to cram a
>> bunch
>> of data on the link.  (V.90 dial up modems are a good example).  When 
>> they
>> added color to the B&W TV signal, they used a QAM method.  The original
>> stereo AM radio signal was QAM.  Cable modems use QAM.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 11:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question
>>
>>
>>>I think some disambiguation may be in order.
>>> QAM is a vector modulation method:.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_diagram
>>> It shares almost nothing with OFDM methods.
>>>
>>> Irrespective, all receivers (CW, AM, FM, SSB, VSB, angle modulation,
>>> OFDM,
>>> QAM, TCM, etc) can have an RSSI output from the AGC, limiter or
>>> demodulator.
>>>
>>> Strictly speaking it only means Received Signal Strength Indicator.  It
>>> is
>>> modulation agnostic.  It is not related to the modulation.
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:10 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question
>>>
>>>
 I'm not sure exactly your question?
 I'm also not sure there is a "purpose", as much as reporting what
 occurs.
 I'm also not sure if you are looking for an answer at the "waveform"
 level
 versus the "Link budget" level?

 RSSI is a factor related to Modulation. More specifically with OFDM.

 Often in manufacturer spec sheets, it will list the minimum rssi level
 in
 order to use a specific modulation. This is not just a random number
 picked.
 Someone else will probably explain it better, and I welcome them to, 
 but
 for
 now I'll try :-)
 It has something to do with how OFDM takes the signal and breaks it up
 into
 lower powered sub carriers.
 As modulations are higher, they get broken down into more sub carriers,
 hence QAM 32,64,256, etc.
 I believe it has something to do with how the math works with Watts
 versus
 DB, when the sign

[WISPA] Press Releases Decision

[Rick Harnish]

The WISPA board has discussed this matter of Unauthorized Press Releases on
the WISPA listservs.  Our consensus is that if any WISP or Vendor wants to
make Press Releases they should send them to Rick Harnish
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] for release
on the WISPA Homepage.  People that want to read the press releases can do
so on the website without cluttering up everyone's email box and using
excessive bandwidth to send these out.  We will allow postings on the WISPA
listservs which include a link to a private webpage which contains the Press
Release or a link to the WISPA homepage.  This decision should adequately
solve everyone's goals and issues with minimal disruption.  If Matt or I are
not reelected in the upcoming election, I will notify the list for who the
responsible party will be.  The WISPA board will also reserve the right to
decide which press releases are to be published and which are to be denied.
We will not post financial information about a company on the webpage.

Thanks,
Rick Harnish




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Re: [WISPA] Rapid Link Executive to be Featured at BroadbandWireless World Conference in Las Vegas, Nevada

[Matt Liotta]

On Jun 17, 2008, at 7:10 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> I am far too lazy to look it up, but there have been multiple press  
> releases
> on the same subject in the past, which has soured the group to  
> RapidLink
> press releases.
>
There have never been multiple press releases on the same subject.  
Nobody wants to hear about the same thing over and over.

-Matt



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Re: [WISPA] Rapid Link Executive to be Featured at BroadbandWireless World Conference in Las Vegas, Nevada

[Mike Hammett]

I don't think that at all, however...

I am far too lazy to look it up, but there have been multiple press releases 
on the same subject in the past, which has soured the group to RapidLink 
press releases.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rapid Link Executive to be Featured at 
BroadbandWireless World Conference in Las Vegas, Nevada


> It is pretty normal for members of an organization to share PR with
> others in the organization. Are you suggesting members should be
> charged for sharing PR?
>
> -Matt
>
> On Jun 16, 2008, at 2:23 PM, Butch Evans wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008, Mike Prachar wrote:
>>
>>> - Rapid Link's Lead Technologist to sit on WiMAX panel -
>>
>> Is it just me that get's tired of reading all about Rapid Link on
>> this list?  I mean, this is not "news I can use"...it's just a
>> series of "press releases" done on WISPA's server.  Seems to me that
>> WISPA oughta get something for this service...
>>
>> -- 
>> 
>> *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation *
>> *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS*
>> *573-276-2879 *ImageStream   *
>> *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
>> *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks*
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> -- 
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by One Ring Networks, and is
>> believed to be clean.
>>
>
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] thoughts on winncom for pt-to-pt soln?

[Rogelio]

Has anyone used these wireless point to point products?

http://www.winncom.com/products.aspx?grcode=WPP

I found this while googling for affordable point to point, high speed 
bridge solutions between line of site buildings.

(Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  This is for a 
university in Africa, so I imagine that cost will be an issue)



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Re: [WISPA] OT - Patrick has left Alvarion

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

This is a big step for you Patrick.  I, for one, and glad you are taking it.

Your insight and passion are a great benefit to anyone you work for/with. 
Having the Entrepreneur perspective to go with your corporate insider 
experience will make your future advice even more valuable.

If there's anything I can do, please do not be afraid to ask.  And boy will 
the questions come out of the woodwork.  Being on the front side of the 
paycheck is a whole lot different than signing the back of one!  Silly 
things like professional insurance, should I get that new tool or that new 
stove etc. are much harder decisions that one would think!  (Said the one 
that just surprised his wife with a 65' bucket truck instead of carpet! 
sigh)

Once you get over the shock of seeing your savings dwindle, hounding people 
for the money they owe you etc. you'll love working for yourself.  It's 
great to be able to take off work to take the kids to ball games etc. and 
not have to beg anyone for permission.  I miss very few of the things that 
my kids do.

Take care and enjoy your summer.  And, hopefully, more time home in general!

laters ol friend!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 7:05 PM
Subject: [WISPA] OT - Patrick has left Alvarion


> Sorry for the OT post, but I wanted to inform the community that I have
> left Alvarion after 10 years. I have also moved back to Florida (Tampa
> area). I will be taking much of the summer off, but will then re-engage
> the industry as consultant. My company name will be Sageni. Sageni will
> focus on market insight & strategy, technology & regulatory consulting,
> marketing support & research. In August I will formally launch the
> company and Web site www.sageni.com. I have high hopes and plans that
> WISPs will be important clients.
>
> It has been a fascinating and wild ten years. I hope the next ten are
> even better.
>
> If you would like to contact me, please use my new gmail address of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] until I go live with Sageni.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Patrick Leary
>
> Patrick Leary
> AVP, Market Development
> Alvarion, Inc.
> o: 650.314.2628
> c: 760.580.0080
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
> 
> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer 
> viruses(84).
> 
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Sandbagging the levy

[Chuck McCown]

In Quincy, we had one of the few levees that held until a nut went over and 
pulled some bags off the top and made it fail on purpose.  He had recently 
been released from jail after serving a term for arson of a school.  The 
local TV station interviewed him as the breech was happening and he was 
acting like the hero and claiming he was trying to fix the problem.  However 
local levy officials had just visited the very area and said it was one of 
most sturdy parts.  As I recall, a news helicopter or someone actually got 
footage of him pulling the bags off.  He was charged with causing a 
catastrophe.  A local entrepreneur floated a barge over to West Quincy for 
the purpose of turning it into a restaurant after the water receded.  I 
don't know if that happened or not.

Not that any of this has anything to do with WISPA...

- Original Message - 
From: "Victoria Proffer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sandbagging the levy


>I believe the 93 flood was called the 100 year flood.
> I filled sandbags that year, as well in a town called Sainte Genevieve, MO
> (70 miles south of St. Louis).  The National Guard took me on a photo op 
> and
> the area was around Kaskaskia Island was totally obliterated.  There were
> cows on roofs and houses floating down the Mississippi.  The levee that 
> was
> just before the island, that was in the middle of the Mississippi, broke 
> and
> sank the entire island.  The area around there has never recovered.
> My understanding is that there are now 6 levees that have broke in
> Missouri.  My network is on the west side of St. Louis between the 
> Missouri
> and Mermac Rivers, I doubt we will see any floods there...but you never
> know...
> Time to did out the waders and go shovel some sand...
>
> Victoria
>
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Chuck McCown - 2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
>
>> BTW, the 93 flood in the midwest was called a 500 year flood.
>> I lived in Quincy, Illinois then and lost some good test gear to the 
>> water.
>> Doesn't seem like it has been 500 years since that flood but time does 
>> fly.
>>
>> In any event, I feel for you guys in the middle of the country.  I filled
>> many sandbags myself.  Make sure to honk your own horn after you are done
>> with the emergency.  I know I am interested in hearing the stories.  Our
>> industry needs to make sure the FCC and the rest of the world knows that 
>> we
>> keep working when all the DSL and cable modems stop.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>
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>
>
>
> -- 
> Victoria Proffer
> CEO
> St. Louis Broadband
> Visit us @
> www.StLBroadband.com
> 314-974-5600
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] OT - Patrick has left Alvarion

[Victoria Proffer]

Wow, the Chief Evangelist of BreezeMax err,  Alvarion now retiring or
leaving the company that he helped to successfully build, that is
unbelievable.
Patrick, I know that I am not alone is saying this, you have personally
helped this industry to be become what it is today.  Your passion for this
industry was always obvious in your posts, your lectures, talking with you
over a beer...it will surly be missed.

Good luck in your new endeavors
.
Victoria

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Patrick Leary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sorry for not getting back John. There is no cell phone coverage where we
> are temporarily staying (on the Weeki Wachee River) and I blissfully have
> not been checking v-mails.
>
> This is a gorgeous and little known part of FL, even though it is just one
> hour north or Tampa. It is the southern edge of what's called the "Nature
> Coast." Crystal clear fresh water rivers bubble up from cracks in the lime
> stone. Deer, bear, bobcats, otters, manatees and ospreys are all around.
> Just two minutes ago my little girls were two feet away from a manatee sow
> and her calf (manatee swim by here many times a day). Really cool stuff.
>
> - Patrick
>
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 9:28 AM, John Scrivner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Patrick,
> > I hope you have a wonderful summer. The time off will be good for you and
> > your family I am sure. I look forward to working with you in your new
> > venture when you get back to us. Until then enjoy that free time! Send us
> a
> > link to some pictures from Florida. I love it there. By the way, I
> returned
> > your call but did not hear back from you. Are you keeping the same
> number?
> > Scriv
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Patrick Leary <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry for the OT post, but I wanted to inform the community that I have
> > > left Alvarion after 10 years. I have also moved back to Florida (Tampa
> > > area). I will be taking much of the summer off, but will then re-engage
> > > the industry as consultant. My company name will be Sageni. Sageni will
> > > focus on market insight & strategy, technology & regulatory consulting,
> > > marketing support & research. In August I will formally launch the
> > > company and Web site www.sageni.com. I have high hopes and plans that
> > > WISPs will be important clients.
> > >
> > > It has been a fascinating and wild ten years. I hope the next ten are
> > > even better.
> > >
> > > If you would like to contact me, please use my new gmail address of
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] until I go live with Sageni.
> > >
> > > Warmly,
> > >
> > > Patrick Leary
> > >
> > > Patrick Leary
> > > AVP, Market Development
> > > Alvarion, Inc.
> > > o: 650.314.2628
> > > c: 760.580.0080
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
> > > PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals &
> > computer
> > > viruses(84).
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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> >
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
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-- 
Victoria Proffer
CEO
St. Louis Broadband
Visit us @
www.StLBroadband.com
314-974-5600



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Re: [WISPA] Sandbagging the levy

[Victoria Proffer]

I believe the 93 flood was called the 100 year flood.
I filled sandbags that year, as well in a town called Sainte Genevieve, MO
(70 miles south of St. Louis).  The National Guard took me on a photo op and
the area was around Kaskaskia Island was totally obliterated.  There were
cows on roofs and houses floating down the Mississippi.  The levee that was
just before the island, that was in the middle of the Mississippi, broke and
sank the entire island.  The area around there has never recovered.
My understanding is that there are now 6 levees that have broke in
Missouri.  My network is on the west side of St. Louis between the Missouri
and Mermac Rivers, I doubt we will see any floods there...but you never
know...
Time to did out the waders and go shovel some sand...

Victoria

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Chuck McCown - 2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> BTW, the 93 flood in the midwest was called a 500 year flood.
> I lived in Quincy, Illinois then and lost some good test gear to the water.
> Doesn't seem like it has been 500 years since that flood but time does fly.
>
> In any event, I feel for you guys in the middle of the country.  I filled
> many sandbags myself.  Make sure to honk your own horn after you are done
> with the emergency.  I know I am interested in hearing the stories.  Our
> industry needs to make sure the FCC and the rest of the world knows that we
> keep working when all the DSL and cable modems stop.
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



-- 
Victoria Proffer
CEO
St. Louis Broadband
Visit us @
www.StLBroadband.com
314-974-5600



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Re: [WISPA] Sandbagging the levy

[Chuck McCown - 2]

BTW, the 93 flood in the midwest was called a 500 year flood.
I lived in Quincy, Illinois then and lost some good test gear to the water. 
Doesn't seem like it has been 500 years since that flood but time does fly.

In any event, I feel for you guys in the middle of the country.  I filled 
many sandbags myself.  Make sure to honk your own horn after you are done 
with the emergency.  I know I am interested in hearing the stories.  Our 
industry needs to make sure the FCC and the rest of the world knows that we 
keep working when all the DSL and cable modems stop. 




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[WISPA] Rapid Link Announces Strong 2nd Quarter 2008 Financial Results

[Mike Prachar]

- Net Income Positive, $4 Million Improvement in Working Capital,
Acquisition Completed of One Ring Networks, Results Exceed Management's
Expectations -

OMAHA, NE - June 17, 2008 - Rapid Link, Incorporated (OTCBB: RPID), one
of the leading providers of WiMAX and Communication Services, announced
financial results for its second quarter ended April 30, 2008. 

SECOND QUARTER FISCAL 2008 HIGHLIGHTS 
Net Income of over $400 thousand for the quarter, and approximately $200
thousand fiscal year to date. Over $1 million net income gain from
discontinued operations.  Earnings per share of $.01 available to common
stockholders for the second quarter fiscal 2008.

Working capital improved over $4 million during the second quarter. 

Completed acquisition of One Ring Networks.

Three Months Ended April 30,
2008
2007

Total Revenue  $3,450,350   $
3,720,098
Gross Profit   $1,126,997   $
1,158,602
Gross Profit Percentage 33%
31%
Net Income $  442,164
$(506,458)
Net Income (Loss per Share)   $  .01$
(.01)


"In this second fiscal quarter of 2008, the company has fully integrated
Communications Advantage into our operations, and recently completed the
acquisition One Ring Networks, Inc.  As a result of the One Ring
acquisition, we further evolve our goal of becoming a provider of
communication services via fixed wireless and fiber optic transport of
voice and internet." said John Jenkins, Rapid Link's Chief Executive
Officer.
"We are pleased to have been able to back up our strong 2007 year-end
numbers and earnings with a solid second quarter of fiscal 2008.  The
financing transactions that we completed during the second quarter will
help enable us to grow through both organic means and strategic
acquisitions.  Improvements in our working capital position and recent
acquisitions are helping the Company to implement its strategic growth
model.  We are beginning to see positive operating results and have set
our sights on realizing an aggressive yet attainable growth model for
the balance of our fiscal year." stated Chris Canfield, Rapid Link's
President and Chief Financial Officer. 

Three Months Ended April 30,
2008
2007

Revenues  $3,450,350
$  3,720,098

Costs and expenses: 
  Costs of revenues  2,323,353
2,561,496
  Sales and marketing  193,406
307,391
  General and administrative 1,063,053
841,698
  Depreciation and amortization268,432
235,619
 3,848,244
3,946,204

Operating loss   (397,894)
(226,106)

Other income (expense): 
  Noncash financing expense   (79,928)
(284,473)
  Interest expense  (74,418)  (70,669)
  Related party interest expense  (64,800)
(58,491)
  Foreign currency exchange gain   (2,796)
2,442
  Other -   -
 (221,942)
(411,191)

Loss from continuing operations  (619,836)  (637,297)

Discontinued operations

Gain on disposal of discontinued operations   
 1,062,000
-

Net income (loss) $  442,164
$   (637,297)

Basic and diluted income (loss) per share:  

Loss per share from continuing operations   $ (.01)
$   (.01)
Income per share from discontinued operations  .02
-
Net income (loss) per share $  .01
$   (.01)

Basic and diluted weighted average shares outstanding   

66,987,044 51,750,419

Including non-cash items, net income available to common stockholders
for the quarter ended April 30, 2008 was $442,164 vs. a net loss to
common stockholders of $637,297 for the same period of fiscal 2007.
For the three months ended April 30, 2008, Rapid Link incurred $79,928
in non-cash interest expense, and a gain on disposal of discontinued
operations of $1,062,000.  Additional non-cash items incurred during the
year include depreciation and amortization expense, share-based
compensation expense, bad debt expense, and loss on property and
equipment. 

About Rapid Link

Rapid Link, Incorporated is a Diversified Communication Services
company, supplying 

[WISPA] Sandbagging the levy

[Chuck McCown - 2]

OK, I fill in one hole and another appeared. (Thanks Brian)

I honestly don't know if Orthogon puts the QAM directly on each discrete RF 
carrier of the OFDM scheme or if those carriers are FMed with a subcarrier 
containing QAM.  So, let me retreat to a previous statement that I still 
believe to be correct:  OFDM does not have any relationship with QAM.

(I have CODFM on the brain as that was a superior method of doing OTA HDTV 
but the ATSC selected 8VSB.  But that was in another life...)

OFDM strictly speaking only means taking a channel, transmitting multiple RF 
carriers within that channel.  The frequencies are calculated such that 
there is a minimum of interference between them.

Those individual RF carriers are (I discover) commonly refered to by 
some(most) as subcarriers.  Strictly speaking, they are not subcarriers in 
the classical sense but that is a whole other discussion.  I will concede 
that using the term subcarrier is in common use but is not accurate.  (It 
really depends on what they are doing at the baseband level, so I might be 
wrong about that opinion as well.)

The second channel (R-L) of an FM broadcast signal is on a subcarrier. 
Color of NTSC video is a subcarrier.  Musak is on subcarriers of FM 
broadcast channels.  OFDM bearer channels (howz that for mixing 
technologies) are discrete RF carriers. But since my opinion of the use of 
the term subcarrier is in an antiquated minority, I will yield that the term 
is the commonly accepted method of referring to those
carriers.  Gheeze it is hard to change.  Glad I learned something today...


- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question


> >what is a sub carrier?
>
> For IP guys, think of VLANs.  You can cram a bunch of VLANs on an Ethernet
> link.  Each VLAN appears to be its own Ethernet link.  But to the trunk, 
> all
> the VLANs appear just to be payload data.
>
> Same thing with RF.  The on-the-air signal is modulated.  OFDM or FM (or
> morse code or AM or whatever) method.  That is the Ethernet.  Inside that
> modulation, if you pick it apart, you may find the raw data (like Canopy
> does) or you may find other modulated signals (like the VLAN) that have to
> be further demodulated (QAM on OFDM like Orthogon).
>
> QAM methods are used to cram a ton of information on a link.  Whether it 
> is
> on the raw RF signal on in a subcarrier.  But they are not as robust as
> simple direct modulation.  But there is always a tradeoff.
>
> The following is not really accurate but it may give a data guy another 
> way
> of thinking about it.
> Level 12.4 GHz RF using antennas
> Level 2OFDM modulation on the RF
> Level 2 VLANsQAM Sub Carriers
> Level 3Ethernet data
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question
>
>
>> Bryan Scott brought up an important point:
>> You can put QAM subcarriers on OFDM.
>>
>> But you can put almost any other type of subcarrier on OFDM too.
>> That may be a confusing thing.  OFDM is method of putting multiple FM
>> modulated carriers on the air.  Almost like sending multiple channels
>> containing their own info and then combining all the channels at the far
>> end.  Those channels can have QAM subcarriers, but the RF is still FM
>> modulated, not QAM modulated.  That may be confusing to some.  The FM
>> modulation of OFDM gives it the inherent advantage of angle only
>> modulation
>> methods.
>>
>> Then there are systems that use QAM to modulate the RF.  Those systems 
>> are
>> less resistant to link problems but are one of the best ways to cram a
>> bunch
>> of data on the link.  (V.90 dial up modems are a good example).  When 
>> they
>> added color to the B&W TV signal, they used a QAM method.  The original
>> stereo AM radio signal was QAM.  Cable modems use QAM.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 11:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question
>>
>>
>>>I think some disambiguation may be in order.
>>> QAM is a vector modulation method:.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_diagram
>>> It shares almost nothing with OFDM methods.
>>>
>>> Irrespective, all receivers (CW, AM, FM, SSB, VSB, angle modulation,
>>> OFDM,
>>> QAM, TCM, etc) can have an RSSI output from the AGC, limiter or
>>> demodulator.
>>>
>>> Strictly speaking it only means Received Signal Strength Indicator.  It
>>> is
>>> modulation agnostic.  It is not related to the modulation.
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:10 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question
>>>
>>>
 I'm not sure exa

Re: [WISPA] modulation question

[Chuck McCown - 2]

>what is a sub carrier?

For IP guys, think of VLANs.  You can cram a bunch of VLANs on an Ethernet 
link.  Each VLAN appears to be its own Ethernet link.  But to the trunk, all 
the VLANs appear just to be payload data.

Same thing with RF.  The on-the-air signal is modulated.  OFDM or FM (or 
morse code or AM or whatever) method.  That is the Ethernet.  Inside that 
modulation, if you pick it apart, you may find the raw data (like Canopy 
does) or you may find other modulated signals (like the VLAN) that have to 
be further demodulated (QAM on OFDM like Orthogon).

QAM methods are used to cram a ton of information on a link.  Whether it is 
on the raw RF signal on in a subcarrier.  But they are not as robust as 
simple direct modulation.  But there is always a tradeoff.

The following is not really accurate but it may give a data guy another way 
of thinking about it.
Level 12.4 GHz RF using antennas
Level 2OFDM modulation on the RF
Level 2 VLANsQAM Sub Carriers
Level 3Ethernet data

- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question


> Bryan Scott brought up an important point:
> You can put QAM subcarriers on OFDM.
>
> But you can put almost any other type of subcarrier on OFDM too.
> That may be a confusing thing.  OFDM is method of putting multiple FM
> modulated carriers on the air.  Almost like sending multiple channels
> containing their own info and then combining all the channels at the far
> end.  Those channels can have QAM subcarriers, but the RF is still FM
> modulated, not QAM modulated.  That may be confusing to some.  The FM
> modulation of OFDM gives it the inherent advantage of angle only 
> modulation
> methods.
>
> Then there are systems that use QAM to modulate the RF.  Those systems are
> less resistant to link problems but are one of the best ways to cram a 
> bunch
> of data on the link.  (V.90 dial up modems are a good example).  When they
> added color to the B&W TV signal, they used a QAM method.  The original
> stereo AM radio signal was QAM.  Cable modems use QAM.
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 11:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question
>
>
>>I think some disambiguation may be in order.
>> QAM is a vector modulation method:.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_diagram
>> It shares almost nothing with OFDM methods.
>>
>> Irrespective, all receivers (CW, AM, FM, SSB, VSB, angle modulation, 
>> OFDM,
>> QAM, TCM, etc) can have an RSSI output from the AGC, limiter or
>> demodulator.
>>
>> Strictly speaking it only means Received Signal Strength Indicator.  It 
>> is
>> modulation agnostic.  It is not related to the modulation.
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question
>>
>>
>>> I'm not sure exactly your question?
>>> I'm also not sure there is a "purpose", as much as reporting what 
>>> occurs.
>>> I'm also not sure if you are looking for an answer at the "waveform"
>>> level
>>> versus the "Link budget" level?
>>>
>>> RSSI is a factor related to Modulation. More specifically with OFDM.
>>>
>>> Often in manufacturer spec sheets, it will list the minimum rssi level 
>>> in
>>> order to use a specific modulation. This is not just a random number
>>> picked.
>>> Someone else will probably explain it better, and I welcome them to, but
>>> for
>>> now I'll try :-)
>>> It has something to do with how OFDM takes the signal and breaks it up
>>> into
>>> lower powered sub carriers.
>>> As modulations are higher, they get broken down into more sub carriers,
>>> hence QAM 32,64,256, etc.
>>> I believe it has something to do with how the math works with Watts
>>> versus
>>> DB, when the signal gets split and added back togeather again at a later
>>> process.
>>> There are two side effects that come... As higher modulations are used,
>>> it
>>> more work for the card and Transmit power becomes less, and receive
>>> sensitivity becomes higher (worse).
>>>
>>> I guess what I'm saying is that its possible to use a specific 
>>> modulation
>>> at
>>> many different power levels/ receive levels (RSSI). It depends on the
>>> power
>>> rating of the card. However, the point I'm making is, at a given set
>>> power
>>> level or sensitivity rating of a card running a low modulation, if the
>>> modulation type is raised, it will have a calculatable/predictable 
>>> effect
>>> on
>>> the signal strength received and sent.
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Rogelio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:06 PM
>>> Subj

Re: [WISPA] OT - Patrick has left Alvarion

[Patrick Leary]

Sorry for not getting back John. There is no cell phone coverage where we
are temporarily staying (on the Weeki Wachee River) and I blissfully have
not been checking v-mails.

This is a gorgeous and little known part of FL, even though it is just one
hour north or Tampa. It is the southern edge of what's called the "Nature
Coast." Crystal clear fresh water rivers bubble up from cracks in the lime
stone. Deer, bear, bobcats, otters, manatees and ospreys are all around.
Just two minutes ago my little girls were two feet away from a manatee sow
and her calf (manatee swim by here many times a day). Really cool stuff.

- Patrick

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 9:28 AM, John Scrivner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Patrick,
> I hope you have a wonderful summer. The time off will be good for you and
> your family I am sure. I look forward to working with you in your new
> venture when you get back to us. Until then enjoy that free time! Send us a
> link to some pictures from Florida. I love it there. By the way, I returned
> your call but did not hear back from you. Are you keeping the same number?
> Scriv
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Patrick Leary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Sorry for the OT post, but I wanted to inform the community that I have
> > left Alvarion after 10 years. I have also moved back to Florida (Tampa
> > area). I will be taking much of the summer off, but will then re-engage
> > the industry as consultant. My company name will be Sageni. Sageni will
> > focus on market insight & strategy, technology & regulatory consulting,
> > marketing support & research. In August I will formally launch the
> > company and Web site www.sageni.com. I have high hopes and plans that
> > WISPs will be important clients.
> >
> > It has been a fascinating and wild ten years. I hope the next ten are
> > even better.
> >
> > If you would like to contact me, please use my new gmail address of
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] until I go live with Sageni.
> >
> > Warmly,
> >
> > Patrick Leary
> >
> > Patrick Leary
> > AVP, Market Development
> > Alvarion, Inc.
> > o: 650.314.2628
> > c: 760.580.0080
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
> > PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals &
> computer
> > viruses(84).
> >
> >
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] modulation question

[Chuck McCown - 2]

Bryan Scott brought up an important point:
You can put QAM subcarriers on OFDM.

But you can put almost any other type of subcarrier on OFDM too.
That may be a confusing thing.  OFDM is method of putting multiple FM 
modulated carriers on the air.  Almost like sending multiple channels 
containing their own info and then combining all the channels at the far 
end.  Those channels can have QAM subcarriers, but the RF is still FM 
modulated, not QAM modulated.  That may be confusing to some.  The FM 
modulation of OFDM gives it the inherent advantage of angle only modulation 
methods.

Then there are systems that use QAM to modulate the RF.  Those systems are 
less resistant to link problems but are one of the best ways to cram a bunch 
of data on the link.  (V.90 dial up modems are a good example).  When they 
added color to the B&W TV signal, they used a QAM method.  The original 
stereo AM radio signal was QAM.  Cable modems use QAM.


- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question


>I think some disambiguation may be in order.
> QAM is a vector modulation method:.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_diagram
> It shares almost nothing with OFDM methods.
>
> Irrespective, all receivers (CW, AM, FM, SSB, VSB, angle modulation, OFDM,
> QAM, TCM, etc) can have an RSSI output from the AGC, limiter or 
> demodulator.
>
> Strictly speaking it only means Received Signal Strength Indicator.  It is
> modulation agnostic.  It is not related to the modulation.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] modulation question
>
>
>> I'm not sure exactly your question?
>> I'm also not sure there is a "purpose", as much as reporting what occurs.
>> I'm also not sure if you are looking for an answer at the "waveform" 
>> level
>> versus the "Link budget" level?
>>
>> RSSI is a factor related to Modulation. More specifically with OFDM.
>>
>> Often in manufacturer spec sheets, it will list the minimum rssi level in
>> order to use a specific modulation. This is not just a random number
>> picked.
>> Someone else will probably explain it better, and I welcome them to, but
>> for
>> now I'll try :-)
>> It has something to do with how OFDM takes the signal and breaks it up
>> into
>> lower powered sub carriers.
>> As modulations are higher, they get broken down into more sub carriers,
>> hence QAM 32,64,256, etc.
>> I believe it has something to do with how the math works with Watts 
>> versus
>> DB, when the signal gets split and added back togeather again at a later
>> process.
>> There are two side effects that come... As higher modulations are used, 
>> it
>> more work for the card and Transmit power becomes less, and receive
>> sensitivity becomes higher (worse).
>>
>> I guess what I'm saying is that its possible to use a specific modulation
>> at
>> many different power levels/ receive levels (RSSI). It depends on the
>> power
>> rating of the card. However, the point I'm making is, at a given set 
>> power
>> level or sensitivity rating of a card running a low modulation, if the
>> modulation type is raised, it will have a calculatable/predictable effect
>> on
>> the signal strength received and sent.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Rogelio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:06 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] modulation question
>>
>>
>>> I've got a question, which I'm afraid might be a little stupid to some,
>>> particularly those with RF backgrounds...
>>>
>>> I've always thought that modulation rate was directly tied to RSSI (for
>>> some law of physics reason or something), but someone else told me that
>>> it's not like that (in theory) and what I'm seeing is just certain
>>> vendors do that for a particular purpose.
>>>
>>> What is this purpose?
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>
> 

Re: [WISPA] OT - Patrick has left Alvarion

[Patrick Leary]

Thanks George, but fortunately I am not dead :)

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 5:08 AM, George Rogato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Wow Patrick,
> After thinking about how to congratulate you on a long successful and
> distinguished career and to offer you some thanks for being part of the
> last 10 years, which indeed has been a very exciting ride.
> Here's what came to my mind:
>
> (Think baritone and skip the mushy stuff)
>
> Memries,
> Like the corners of my mind
> Misty water-colored memories
> Of the way we were
> Scattered pictures,
> Of the smiles we left behind
> Smiles we gave to one another
> For the way we were
> Can it be that it was all so simple then?
> Or has time re-written every line?
> If we had the chance to do it all again
> Tell me, would we? could we?
> Memries, may be beautiful and yet
> Whats too painful to remember
> We simply choose to forget
> So its the laughter
> We will remember
> Whenever we remember...
> The way we were...
> The way we were...
>
> Patrick Leary wrote:
> > Sorry for the OT post, but I wanted to inform the community that I have
> > left Alvarion after 10 years. I have also moved back to Florida (Tampa
> > area). I will be taking much of the summer off, but will then re-engage
> > the industry as consultant. My company name will be Sageni. Sageni will
> > focus on market insight & strategy, technology & regulatory consulting,
> > marketing support & research. In August I will formally launch the
> > company and Web site www.sageni.com. I have high hopes and plans that
> > WISPs will be important clients.
> >
> > It has been a fascinating and wild ten years. I hope the next ten are
> > even better.
> >
> > If you would like to contact me, please use my new gmail address of
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] until I go live with Sageni.
> >
> > Warmly,
> >
> > Patrick Leary
> >
> > Patrick Leary
> > AVP, Market Development
> > Alvarion, Inc.
> > o: 650.314.2628
> > c: 760.580.0080
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
> > PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals &
> computer viruses(84).
> >
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
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Re: [WISPA] OT - Patrick has left Alvarion

[Patrick Leary]

Thanks Butch. It is actually a surprise to even some Alvarion insiders, many
of whom did not know until last night when I sent a message to Alvarion
folks.

The name "Sageni" is a hybrid of the words "sage" and "genie." I made it up.
It is meant to imply something along the lines of the insights and knowledge
you need and the can-do and at-your-service attitude of a genie. The
pronounciation is simple -- say-gen-ee. No matter ones native language, most
anyone from anywhere should be able to pronounce it. I spent hours one night
thinking of names and hunting for an open URL. Amazingly, this simple six
letter combo www.sageni.com was not taken.

- Patrick




On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 12:40 AM, Butch Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008, Patrick Leary wrote:
>
> >Sorry for the OT post, but I wanted to inform the community that I
> >have left Alvarion after 10 years. I have also moved back to
>
> I think that there are very few things that I could read about that
> would be more surprising than this.  Perhaps that is just an
> "outsiders view"...  Either way, Patrick, I wish you the best of
> luck with your new venture and am (most certainly) glad to hear that
> you will still be part of the industry.  You have been a critical
> component in the overall development in the industry and I am
> certain that Alvarion will sorely miss your insights.
>
> >My company name will be Sageni. Sageni will focus on market insight
> >& strategy, technology & regulatory consulting, marketing support &
> >research.
>
> Mind offering a phonetic pronounciation of the company name?  It is
> an interesting choice to say the least.  I suspect it is a word from
> another language that I cannot guess...
>
> --
> 
> *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation *
> *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS *
> *573-276-2879   *ImageStream   *
> *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
> *Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Wired or Wireless Networks*
>  
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] OT - Patrick has left Alvarion

[John Scrivner]

Patrick,
I hope you have a wonderful summer. The time off will be good for you and
your family I am sure. I look forward to working with you in your new
venture when you get back to us. Until then enjoy that free time! Send us a
link to some pictures from Florida. I love it there. By the way, I returned
your call but did not hear back from you. Are you keeping the same number?
Scriv



On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Patrick Leary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Sorry for the OT post, but I wanted to inform the community that I have
> left Alvarion after 10 years. I have also moved back to Florida (Tampa
> area). I will be taking much of the summer off, but will then re-engage
> the industry as consultant. My company name will be Sageni. Sageni will
> focus on market insight & strategy, technology & regulatory consulting,
> marketing support & research. In August I will formally launch the
> company and Web site www.sageni.com. I have high hopes and plans that
> WISPs will be important clients.
>
> It has been a fascinating and wild ten years. I hope the next ten are
> even better.
>
> If you would like to contact me, please use my new gmail address of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] until I go live with Sageni.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Patrick Leary
>
> Patrick Leary
> AVP, Market Development
> Alvarion, Inc.
> o: 650.314.2628
> c: 760.580.0080
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer
> viruses(84).
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Trango Link 45

[Matt Liotta]

We have a large number of these radios in our network and are happy  
with them. WIth that being said, make sure you understand that the  
Trango link test uses 1600 byte frames. Most networks will make use of  
1500 byte MTUs, so your practical throughput is going to be lower than  
the results provided by the radio.

-Matt

On Jun 16, 2008, at 11:42 PM, Cameron Kilton wrote:

> I was impressed since it is a site where I have 5 PTP Alvarion B  
> gear on
> 20mhz channels (all 2 foot dishes) and 2 Alvarion VL PTMP 120 Degree
> sectors.
>
> But we all get greedy, (NEED MORE BANDWIDTH A!!!). I'm just
> trying to milk every bit out of the link I possibly can.
> -Cam
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> On
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 11:25 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango Link 45
>
> Pretty amazing, yeah!
>
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Cameron Kilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 9:45 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Trango Link 45
>
>
>> These are my results on a 36 Mile Link with 3 foot Pac Wireless DP
>> wideband dishes on either end. Running a 36mbps modulation. I'm quite
>> happy with this, but it seems if I try to jump up to 48 mbps
> modulation,
>> my error come along quite a bit.
>>
>> 0> [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi] -70  peer: [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi]
> -71
>> ->  21.97 Mbps
>> 1> [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi] -70  peer: [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi]
> -71
>> ->  21.97 Mbps
>> 2> [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi] -70  peer: [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi]
> -71
>> ->  21.95 Mbps
>> 3> [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi] -70  peer: [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi]
> -71
>> ->  21.96 Mbps
>> 4> [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi] -70  peer: [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi]
> -71
>> ->  21.96 Mbps
>> 5> [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi] -70  peer: [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi]
> -71
>> ->  21.97 Mbps
>> 6> [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi] -70  peer: [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi]
> -71
>> ->  21.97 Mbps
>> 7> [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi] -70  peer: [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi]
> -71
>> ->  21.97 Mbps
>> 8> [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi] -70  peer: [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi]
> -71
>> ->  21.98 Mbps
>> 9> [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi] -70  peer: [tx] 1000 [rx] 1000 [rssi]
> -71
>> ->  21.97 Mbps
>>
>> --> [tx] 1 [rx] 1 [rssi] -70  peer: [tx] 1 [rx] 1
> [rssi]
>> -71
>> --> [Local PER]   0.00 %  [Peer PER]   0.00 %
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Cameron Kilton
>> Broadband Department
>> Assistant Systems Administrator
>> Midcoast Internet Solutions
>> http://www.midcoast.com/
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> (207)594-8277 ext. 108
>> --
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> please
>> immediately notify the sender, destroy all copies of this message,  
>> and
>> delete this message from your computer. --
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>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] OT - Patrick has left Alvarion

[George Rogato]

Wow Patrick,
After thinking about how to congratulate you on a long successful and 
distinguished career and to offer you some thanks for being part of the 
last 10 years, which indeed has been a very exciting ride.
Here's what came to my mind:

(Think baritone and skip the mushy stuff)

Memries,
Like the corners of my mind
Misty water-colored memories
Of the way we were
Scattered pictures,
Of the smiles we left behind
Smiles we gave to one another
For the way we were
Can it be that it was all so simple then?
Or has time re-written every line?
If we had the chance to do it all again
Tell me, would we? could we?
Memries, may be beautiful and yet
Whats too painful to remember
We simply choose to forget
So its the laughter
We will remember
Whenever we remember...
The way we were...
The way we were...

Patrick Leary wrote:
> Sorry for the OT post, but I wanted to inform the community that I have
> left Alvarion after 10 years. I have also moved back to Florida (Tampa
> area). I will be taking much of the summer off, but will then re-engage
> the industry as consultant. My company name will be Sageni. Sageni will
> focus on market insight & strategy, technology & regulatory consulting,
> marketing support & research. In August I will formally launch the
> company and Web site www.sageni.com. I have high hopes and plans that
> WISPs will be important clients.
> 
> It has been a fascinating and wild ten years. I hope the next ten are
> even better.
> 
> If you would like to contact me, please use my new gmail address of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] until I go live with Sageni.
> 
> Warmly,
> 
> Patrick Leary
> 
> Patrick Leary
> AVP, Market Development
> Alvarion, Inc.
> o: 650.314.2628
> c: 760.580.0080
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer 
> viruses(84).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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