RE: [WISPA] More Saturday Musings- Another (older) Truck-PC type
Pretty sure it was no ad hoc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] More Saturday Musings- Another (older) Truck-PC type Right, but do they have their units in ad hoc mode shouting out that essid? I see HP setup quite abit and that is in ad hoc mode. Naturally thats an HP printer waiting to get set up. George Rick Smith wrote: no, mikrotik in this case, doing a 'scan' on the interface...shows their ssid's in their trucks... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 5:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] More Saturday Musings- Another (older) Truck-PC type ad hoc mode? Rick Smith wrote: nod, a scan on the AP shows them... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] More Saturday Musings- Another (older) Truck-PC type If they still operate as before, you shouldn't see them unless you set your tower as a client/cpe. I have never seen them do anything with an AP, other than BE one. Dis you know that was what the SST-PR-1 was before? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 2:35 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] More Saturday Musings- Another (older) Truck-PC type yeah I can see 10 - 12 of them at any time off one of my towers. I'm 1/2 mile from a sears garage where they repair those vans... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 11:11 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] More Saturday Musings- Another (older) Truck-PC type Hi Matt- Back in my old Net-Stumbler days (back when you could drive across Atlanta and see less than 20 Access Points, and 2 were my own), the experimenters of the day became perplexed by this SSID that kept popping up at random times. It was an Access Point named SST-PR-1 The first time I saw it, I was in my basement and I knew full well what I could normally receive down there. There were all kinds of theories: an AP on a low earth orbit satellite, something on a passing vehicle, some sort of temporary SSID on a piece of gear that just showed up right at bootup, etc. Googling for SST-PR-1 might actually turn up some of the old discussions about it. Anyway- I started seeing it a lot in the evenings after they built some apartments behind me. I sent my son over there on his bike with a camera to do some investigating. He soon found a Sears Service truck (the ones with the small Globalstar dish on top like you see on many semis) parked in front of an apartment. He went back with a laptop and traced the signal to this van. So we had it figured out- Sears truck. A few days later, my son saw the driver coming home for the evening and the driver gave him the dog and pony show of the truck computer. It is linked to Sears parts database via satellite. The SST-PR-1 is the SSID of an integral access point that allows the driver to use a laptop from inside the customer's home to check on parts, see service manuals, etc. The SST stands for Sears Smart Toolbox. I once told a friend about it and he set up a laptop to warn him when the Sears guy entered the neighborhood on his way to fix their refrigerator. An early warning system of sorts. So, the big SST-PR-1 mystery was finally solved by a 12 year old kid! Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 1:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRUCKPC AHA I've been wondering where the hell that TruckPC request has been coming from!! Occasionally, I have techs who have left the radius authentication disabled on an access point and the dhcp logs will start to fill up with requests from TruckPC. They were coming from access points all over the place and I was a little perplexed. It is interesting to watch our radius logs too. I have one AP overlooking a little town of 200 people, but it is right next to an interstate and the radius log from that AP is always showing logins. Must be all the trucker laptops whizzing by looking for an open AP. I've been toying with the idea of turning on hotspot functionality so that we can provide transient access, and this is probably a good reason to do it. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ralph wrote: Well, JohnnyO- you might want to also educate these people, then: http://www.drivertech.com/ Their product, a Truckpc is
RE: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g
To even take your water hose analogy, I pay for my water - one little sip might not hurt, but everyone stopping by to take a sip, leaving the hose on, draws down my supply and sends my bill up. However you slice it or justify it in your mind, it's still morally, ethically, and legally wrong to connect to open WiFi devices and do ANYthing on that connection. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 12:25 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g I suppose that the only real difference is that you can drive up within a few hundred feet of any house with a unsecured wireless network, and get online without anyone knowing (or caring most of the time). Its more like walking up and getting a drink from your water hose in your yard than JohnnyO's analogy of using your wife. A sip of water from the hose or 5 minutes on your wireless router neither one significantly costs anyone. While it is technically stealing it is hard to suggest that it costs the paying subscriber has sustained any monetary loss or any cost of real performance, internet speed, or water pressure. If his files on his PC were shared on his insecure WLAN, and you drove up and snooped/altered/deleted them, then it would seem that there is grounds for vandalism/business interruption, unauthorized information access, etc, etc. If I walk up to your water hose, steal it, cut it, or run several hoses together and fill my 30,000 gallon pool, or stick it in your window and flood your house, then there is a problem, and a real issue, and a crime has been committed, since it legitimately costs you real money to remedy. If I drive near your home, get on the internet, check my email, make a VOIP call, look up a stock price, or whatever, then I don't suspect anyone will complain, or know that I did it. It also won't cost you anything. If I sit out there for hours downloading copyright violations (P2P) or cracking your file server, or send 10,000,000 spam messages getting your IP added to the RBL's, then there is a real issue. An emergency communication plan that includes war driving to establish VOIP is akin to a fire department that plans to put out fires with a series of garden hoses and outside hose bibs instead of installing real fire hydrants. As far as the legality of war driving, I am not sure that MOST war driving is catch-able convict-able or quantify-able (in the cost to the customer) or whatever. Its also against the law to sample grapes at the grocery store. I don't do that, but I am sure that people have done that for years. I have never even heard of anyone getting in trouble for it. (war driving or grape sampling). I suppose that if you got greedy with either one, you would get your hand slapped. Pete Davis NoDial.net. Rick Smith wrote: ah yes, but then you would've had a cop knock on the front door, and ASK your permission to use the phone. At which point, you COULD say NO! and shut the door on them. Or, you could let them in, and tell them OK! here it is! BUT...They wouldn't do the equivalent of walking up to your NID, plugging a butt set in and just dialing away... If I, right now, drove up in front of your house, got out of my truck, walked up to your Network panel that Verizon or the local phone co. put there as their demarcation point, and plugged my butt set in and got dial tone and dialed Hawaii to chat with someone at YOUR expense, I could be found / shot / arrested / sued / what have you. What's different with WiFi ? Nothing but the excuses we allow people to continue to make. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 3:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g The legality and ethics of using an open access point is questionable, but there is a liability issue as well. In most of the areas that I cover with my network, there is a strong signal with SSID of NoDial. Connecting to this will get you a DHCP address even, without a WEP or other encryption key. Until I know that you have connected and moved your mac address to a list that authorizes your connection, all of your outbound packets will be sent to http://64.123.108.28:80 This brings up a liability issue. If the emergency communication van tech wastes 2 hrs trying to get hold of me, get connected to the internet, or whatever, and $10M of houses burn down, because they couldn't get to the fire department via a hacked VOIP solution, then am I gonna get sued? If they connect to my private home network that I intentionally left open, and my custom made uber-hacker passive/aggressive firewall unleashes a blackops virus that turns their laptops into bricks. Then what? I guess, that by JohnnyO's example, if you come into my open door and try to visit
Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g
Ah, but it does cost me the monthly fee. And if you use it, it is because I paid the fee, not you. There, seems to me it is theft, you are using what I paid for without paying. Pete Davis wrote: I suppose that the only real difference is that you can drive up within a few hundred feet of any house with a unsecured wireless network, and get online without anyone knowing (or caring most of the time). Its more like walking up and getting a drink from your water hose in your yard than JohnnyO's analogy of using your wife. A sip of water from the hose or 5 minutes on your wireless router neither one significantly costs anyone. While it is technically stealing it is hard to suggest that it costs the paying subscriber has sustained any monetary loss or any cost of real performance, internet speed, or water pressure. If his files on his PC were shared on his insecure WLAN, and you drove up and snooped/altered/deleted them, then it would seem that there is grounds for vandalism/business interruption, unauthorized information access, etc, etc. If I walk up to your water hose, steal it, cut it, or run several hoses together and fill my 30,000 gallon pool, or stick it in your window and flood your house, then there is a problem, and a real issue, and a crime has been committed, since it legitimately costs you real money to remedy. If I drive near your home, get on the internet, check my email, make a VOIP call, look up a stock price, or whatever, then I don't suspect anyone will complain, or know that I did it. It also won't cost you anything. If I sit out there for hours downloading copyright violations (P2P) or cracking your file server, or send 10,000,000 spam messages getting your IP added to the RBL's, then there is a real issue. An emergency communication plan that includes war driving to establish VOIP is akin to a fire department that plans to put out fires with a series of garden hoses and outside hose bibs instead of installing real fire hydrants. As far as the legality of war driving, I am not sure that MOST war driving is catch-able convict-able or quantify-able (in the cost to the customer) or whatever. Its also against the law to sample grapes at the grocery store. I don't do that, but I am sure that people have done that for years. I have never even heard of anyone getting in trouble for it. (war driving or grape sampling). I suppose that if you got greedy with either one, you would get your hand slapped. Pete Davis NoDial.net. Rick Smith wrote: ah yes, but then you would've had a cop knock on the front door, and ASK your permission to use the phone. At which point, you COULD say NO! and shut the door on them. Or, you could let them in, and tell them OK! here it is! BUT...They wouldn't do the equivalent of walking up to your NID, plugging a butt set in and just dialing away... If I, right now, drove up in front of your house, got out of my truck, walked up to your Network panel that Verizon or the local phone co. put there as their demarcation point, and plugged my butt set in and got dial tone and dialed Hawaii to chat with someone at YOUR expense, I could be found / shot / arrested / sued / what have you. What's different with WiFi ? Nothing but the excuses we allow people to continue to make. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 3:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g The legality and ethics of using an open access point is questionable, but there is a liability issue as well. In most of the areas that I cover with my network, there is a strong signal with SSID of NoDial. Connecting to this will get you a DHCP address even, without a WEP or other encryption key. Until I know that you have connected and moved your mac address to a list that authorizes your connection, all of your outbound packets will be sent to http://64.123.108.28:80 This brings up a liability issue. If the emergency communication van tech wastes 2 hrs trying to get hold of me, get connected to the internet, or whatever, and $10M of houses burn down, because they couldn't get to the fire department via a hacked VOIP solution, then am I gonna get sued? If they connect to my private home network that I intentionally left open, and my custom made uber-hacker passive/aggressive firewall unleashes a blackops virus that turns their laptops into bricks. Then what? I guess, that by JohnnyO's example, if you come into my open door and try to visit with my wife, and you step on a rake that gives you a brain anurism, I guess that makes me guilty (or not guilty) of manslaughter. I lost score in this ballgame. If the cops are in a pursuit in my neighborhood, and run their squad car off the road breaking the radio, and they want to use my home phone to call the office, I would let them. Not because I HAVE to, but
How to secure WiFi networks was RE: [WISPA] recommendation
With all this discussion, I've not done it in a while for clients - is there a website somewhere that details all the methods for A/P and CPE security ? I remember Win XP being a royal pain in the keister when trying to get it to work with WEP and Linksys... Any good guides out there ? Perhaps WISPA's website should hold the how-to, and we all make it a habit to secure clients access to their own wifi networks. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 10:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g Ah, but it does cost me the monthly fee. And if you use it, it is because I paid the fee, not you. There, seems to me it is theft, you are using what I paid for without paying. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g
Yes, you paid for it, then broadcast it completely unencrypted into the airspace that is in my car, that is perfectly legally parked in the street. If your apple tree drops an apple in my yard, it is free for me to eat. You paid for the water, the fertilizer, and the minerals to create the fruit, but it became my fruit win it landed in my yard. pd Scott Reed wrote: Ah, but it does cost me the monthly fee. And if you use it, it is because I paid the fee, not you. There, seems to me it is theft, you are using what I paid for without paying. Pete Davis wrote: I suppose that the only real difference is that you can drive up within a few hundred feet of any house with a unsecured wireless network, and get online without anyone knowing (or caring most of the time). Its more like walking up and getting a drink from your water hose in your yard than JohnnyO's analogy of using your wife. A sip of water from the hose or 5 minutes on your wireless router neither one significantly costs anyone. While it is technically stealing it is hard to suggest that it costs the paying subscriber has sustained any monetary loss or any cost of real performance, internet speed, or water pressure. If his files on his PC were shared on his insecure WLAN, and you drove up and snooped/altered/deleted them, then it would seem that there is grounds for vandalism/business interruption, unauthorized information access, etc, etc. If I walk up to your water hose, steal it, cut it, or run several hoses together and fill my 30,000 gallon pool, or stick it in your window and flood your house, then there is a problem, and a real issue, and a crime has been committed, since it legitimately costs you real money to remedy. If I drive near your home, get on the internet, check my email, make a VOIP call, look up a stock price, or whatever, then I don't suspect anyone will complain, or know that I did it. It also won't cost you anything. If I sit out there for hours downloading copyright violations (P2P) or cracking your file server, or send 10,000,000 spam messages getting your IP added to the RBL's, then there is a real issue. An emergency communication plan that includes war driving to establish VOIP is akin to a fire department that plans to put out fires with a series of garden hoses and outside hose bibs instead of installing real fire hydrants. As far as the legality of war driving, I am not sure that MOST war driving is catch-able convict-able or quantify-able (in the cost to the customer) or whatever. Its also against the law to sample grapes at the grocery store. I don't do that, but I am sure that people have done that for years. I have never even heard of anyone getting in trouble for it. (war driving or grape sampling). I suppose that if you got greedy with either one, you would get your hand slapped. Pete Davis NoDial.net. Rick Smith wrote: ah yes, but then you would've had a cop knock on the front door, and ASK your permission to use the phone. At which point, you COULD say NO! and shut the door on them. Or, you could let them in, and tell them OK! here it is! BUT...They wouldn't do the equivalent of walking up to your NID, plugging a butt set in and just dialing away... If I, right now, drove up in front of your house, got out of my truck, walked up to your Network panel that Verizon or the local phone co. put there as their demarcation point, and plugged my butt set in and got dial tone and dialed Hawaii to chat with someone at YOUR expense, I could be found / shot / arrested / sued / what have you. What's different with WiFi ? Nothing but the excuses we allow people to continue to make. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 3:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g The legality and ethics of using an open access point is questionable, but there is a liability issue as well. In most of the areas that I cover with my network, there is a strong signal with SSID of NoDial. Connecting to this will get you a DHCP address even, without a WEP or other encryption key. Until I know that you have connected and moved your mac address to a list that authorizes your connection, all of your outbound packets will be sent to http://64.123.108.28:80 This brings up a liability issue. If the emergency communication van tech wastes 2 hrs trying to get hold of me, get connected to the internet, or whatever, and $10M of houses burn down, because they couldn't get to the fire department via a hacked VOIP solution, then am I gonna get sued? If they connect to my private home network that I intentionally left open, and my custom made uber-hacker passive/aggressive firewall unleashes a blackops virus that turns their laptops into bricks. Then what? I guess, that by JohnnyO's example, if you come into my open
RE: [WISPA] recommendation forClient POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g
Yea but in order to eat the apple from my tree, you have to come into my house and use my knife to cut it upBad analogy. Using an open AP is still illegal. I may leave my front door open but it does not make it ok for you to take stuff. You can listen to cordless phone conversations but it is still illegal. MM -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 11:25 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] recommendation forClient POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g Yes, you paid for it, then broadcast it completely unencrypted into the airspace that is in my car, that is perfectly legally parked in the street. If your apple tree drops an apple in my yard, it is free for me to eat. You paid for the water, the fertilizer, and the minerals to create the fruit, but it became my fruit win it landed in my yard. pd Scott Reed wrote: Ah, but it does cost me the monthly fee. And if you use it, it is because I paid the fee, not you. There, seems to me it is theft, you are using what I paid for without paying. Pete Davis wrote: I suppose that the only real difference is that you can drive up within a few hundred feet of any house with a unsecured wireless network, and get online without anyone knowing (or caring most of the time). Its more like walking up and getting a drink from your water hose in your yard than JohnnyO's analogy of using your wife. A sip of water from the hose or 5 minutes on your wireless router neither one significantly costs anyone. While it is technically stealing it is hard to suggest that it costs the paying subscriber has sustained any monetary loss or any cost of real performance, internet speed, or water pressure. If his files on his PC were shared on his insecure WLAN, and you drove up and snooped/altered/deleted them, then it would seem that there is grounds for vandalism/business interruption, unauthorized information access, etc, etc. If I walk up to your water hose, steal it, cut it, or run several hoses together and fill my 30,000 gallon pool, or stick it in your window and flood your house, then there is a problem, and a real issue, and a crime has been committed, since it legitimately costs you real money to remedy. If I drive near your home, get on the internet, check my email, make a VOIP call, look up a stock price, or whatever, then I don't suspect anyone will complain, or know that I did it. It also won't cost you anything. If I sit out there for hours downloading copyright violations (P2P) or cracking your file server, or send 10,000,000 spam messages getting your IP added to the RBL's, then there is a real issue. An emergency communication plan that includes war driving to establish VOIP is akin to a fire department that plans to put out fires with a series of garden hoses and outside hose bibs instead of installing real fire hydrants. As far as the legality of war driving, I am not sure that MOST war driving is catch-able convict-able or quantify-able (in the cost to the customer) or whatever. Its also against the law to sample grapes at the grocery store. I don't do that, but I am sure that people have done that for years. I have never even heard of anyone getting in trouble for it. (war driving or grape sampling). I suppose that if you got greedy with either one, you would get your hand slapped. Pete Davis NoDial.net. Rick Smith wrote: ah yes, but then you would've had a cop knock on the front door, and ASK your permission to use the phone. At which point, you COULD say NO! and shut the door on them. Or, you could let them in, and tell them OK! here it is! BUT...They wouldn't do the equivalent of walking up to your NID, plugging a butt set in and just dialing away... If I, right now, drove up in front of your house, got out of my truck, walked up to your Network panel that Verizon or the local phone co. put there as their demarcation point, and plugged my butt set in and got dial tone and dialed Hawaii to chat with someone at YOUR expense, I could be found / shot / arrested / sued / what have you. What's different with WiFi ? Nothing but the excuses we allow people to continue to make. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 3:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g The legality and ethics of using an open access point is questionable, but there is a liability issue as well. In most of the areas that I cover with my network, there is a strong signal with SSID of NoDial. Connecting to this will get you a DHCP address even, without a WEP or other encryption key. Until I know that you have connected and moved your mac address to a list that authorizes your connection, all of your
Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g
Not true... a case has already been filed about this exact thing... http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Florida_man_charged_with_stealing_WiFi http://stpetersburgtimes.com./2005/07/04/Southpinellas/Wi_Fi_cloaks_a_new_br.shtml It is illegal, period. Travis Microserv Pete Davis wrote: Yes, you paid for it, then broadcast it completely unencrypted into the airspace that is in my car, that is perfectly legally parked in the street. If your apple tree drops an apple in my yard, it is free for me to eat. You paid for the water, the fertilizer, and the minerals to create the fruit, but it became my fruit win it landed in my yard. pd Scott Reed wrote: Ah, but it does cost me the monthly fee. And if you use it, it is because I paid the fee, not you. There, seems to me it is theft, you are using what I paid for without paying. Pete Davis wrote: I suppose that the only real difference is that you can drive up within a few hundred feet of any house with a unsecured wireless network, and get online without anyone knowing (or caring most of the time). Its more like walking up and getting a drink from your water hose in your yard than JohnnyO's analogy of using your wife. A sip of water from the hose or 5 minutes on your wireless router neither one significantly costs anyone. While it is technically stealing it is hard to suggest that it costs the paying subscriber has sustained any monetary loss or any cost of real performance, internet speed, or water pressure. If his files on his PC were shared on his insecure WLAN, and you drove up and snooped/altered/deleted them, then it would seem that there is grounds for vandalism/business interruption, unauthorized information access, etc, etc. If I walk up to your water hose, steal it, cut it, or run several hoses together and fill my 30,000 gallon pool, or stick it in your window and flood your house, then there is a problem, and a real issue, and a crime has been committed, since it legitimately costs you real money to remedy. If I drive near your home, get on the internet, check my email, make a VOIP call, look up a stock price, or whatever, then I don't suspect anyone will complain, or know that I did it. It also won't cost you anything. If I sit out there for hours downloading copyright violations (P2P) or cracking your file server, or send 10,000,000 spam messages getting your IP added to the RBL's, then there is a real issue. An emergency communication plan that includes war driving to establish VOIP is akin to a fire department that plans to put out fires with a series of garden hoses and outside hose bibs instead of installing real fire hydrants. As far as the legality of war driving, I am not sure that MOST war driving is catch-able convict-able or quantify-able (in the cost to the customer) or whatever. Its also against the law to sample grapes at the grocery store. I don't do that, but I am sure that people have done that for years. I have never even heard of anyone getting in trouble for it. (war driving or grape sampling). I suppose that if you got greedy with either one, you would get your hand slapped. Pete Davis NoDial.net. Rick Smith wrote: ah yes, but then you would've had a cop knock on the front door, and ASK your permission to use the phone. At which point, you COULD say NO! and shut the door on them. Or, you could let them in, and tell them OK! here it is! BUT...They wouldn't do the equivalent of walking up to your NID, plugging a butt set in and just dialing away... If I, right now, drove up in front of your house, got out of my truck, walked up to your Network panel that Verizon or the local phone co. put there as their demarcation point, and plugged my butt set in and got dial tone and dialed Hawaii to chat with someone at YOUR expense, I could be found / shot / arrested / sued / what have you. What's different with WiFi ? Nothing but the excuses we allow people to continue to make. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 3:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g The legality and ethics of using an open access point is questionable, but there is a liability issue as well. In most of the areas that I cover with my network, there is a strong signal with SSID of NoDial. Connecting to this will get you a DHCP address even, without a WEP or other encryption key. Until I know that you have connected and moved your mac address to a list that authorizes your connection, all of your outbound packets will be sent to http://64.123.108.28:80 This brings up a liability issue. If the emergency communication van tech wastes 2 hrs trying to get hold of me, get connected to the internet, or whatever, and $10M of houses burn down, because they couldn't get to the fire department via a hacked VOIP solution, then am I gonna
Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g
Yeah, but there was also a state that was making open ap's legal to connect to. We hashed that one around quite awhile ago as well. Travis Johnson wrote: Not true... a case has already been filed about this exact thing... http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Florida_man_charged_with_stealing_WiFi http://stpetersburgtimes.com./2005/07/04/Southpinellas/Wi_Fi_cloaks_a_new_br.shtml It is illegal, period. Travis Microserv Pete Davis wrote: Yes, you paid for it, then broadcast it completely unencrypted into the airspace that is in my car, that is perfectly legally parked in the street. If your apple tree drops an apple in my yard, it is free for me to eat. You paid for the water, the fertilizer, and the minerals to create the fruit, but it became my fruit win it landed in my yard. pd Scott Reed wrote: Ah, but it does cost me the monthly fee. And if you use it, it is because I paid the fee, not you. There, seems to me it is theft, you are using what I paid for without paying. Pete Davis wrote: I suppose that the only real difference is that you can drive up within a few hundred feet of any house with a unsecured wireless network, and get online without anyone knowing (or caring most of the time). Its more like walking up and getting a drink from your water hose in your yard than JohnnyO's analogy of using your wife. A sip of water from the hose or 5 minutes on your wireless router neither one significantly costs anyone. While it is technically stealing it is hard to suggest that it costs the paying subscriber has sustained any monetary loss or any cost of real performance, internet speed, or water pressure. If his files on his PC were shared on his insecure WLAN, and you drove up and snooped/altered/deleted them, then it would seem that there is grounds for vandalism/business interruption, unauthorized information access, etc, etc. If I walk up to your water hose, steal it, cut it, or run several hoses together and fill my 30,000 gallon pool, or stick it in your window and flood your house, then there is a problem, and a real issue, and a crime has been committed, since it legitimately costs you real money to remedy. If I drive near your home, get on the internet, check my email, make a VOIP call, look up a stock price, or whatever, then I don't suspect anyone will complain, or know that I did it. It also won't cost you anything. If I sit out there for hours downloading copyright violations (P2P) or cracking your file server, or send 10,000,000 spam messages getting your IP added to the RBL's, then there is a real issue. An emergency communication plan that includes war driving to establish VOIP is akin to a fire department that plans to put out fires with a series of garden hoses and outside hose bibs instead of installing real fire hydrants. As far as the legality of war driving, I am not sure that MOST war driving is catch-able convict-able or quantify-able (in the cost to the customer) or whatever. Its also against the law to sample grapes at the grocery store. I don't do that, but I am sure that people have done that for years. I have never even heard of anyone getting in trouble for it. (war driving or grape sampling). I suppose that if you got greedy with either one, you would get your hand slapped. Pete Davis NoDial.net. Rick Smith wrote: ah yes, but then you would've had a cop knock on the front door, and ASK your permission to use the phone. At which point, you COULD say NO! and shut the door on them. Or, you could let them in, and tell them OK! here it is! BUT...They wouldn't do the equivalent of walking up to your NID, plugging a butt set in and just dialing away... If I, right now, drove up in front of your house, got out of my truck, walked up to your Network panel that Verizon or the local phone co. put there as their demarcation point, and plugged my butt set in and got dial tone and dialed Hawaii to chat with someone at YOUR expense, I could be found / shot / arrested / sued / what have you. What's different with WiFi ? Nothing but the excuses we allow people to continue to make. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 3:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g The legality and ethics of using an open access point is questionable, but there is a liability issue as well. In most of the areas that I cover with my network, there is a strong signal with SSID of NoDial. Connecting to this will get you a DHCP address even, without a WEP or other encryption key. Until I know that you have connected and moved your mac address to a list that authorizes your connection, all of your outbound packets will be sent to http://64.123.108.28:80 This brings up a liability issue. If the emergency communication van tech wastes 2 hrs trying to get hold of me, get
RE: How to secure WiFi networks was RE: [WISPA] recommendation
WEP is easily broken. The much stronger WPA2 (WPA2/AES) is a simple setup. For personal/home use just use a pre shared key (PSK) which is just a shared password. Unlike WEP, with WPA2 there is no fixed or hard to remember HEX code. Just pick a good shared password for home/personal use. Just use the same password in your PC and AP. Win XP is simple to setup with WPA2, see the XP Advanced tab for the wireless interface. Frank Keeney Blog: http://www.unwiredadventures.com Photos: http://snurl.com/unwirephotos -Original Message- From: Rick Smith With all this discussion, I've not done it in a while for clients - is there a website somewhere that details all the methods for A/P and CPE security ? I remember Win XP being a royal pain in the keister when trying to get it to work with WEP and Linksys... Any good guides out there ? Perhaps WISPA's website should hold the how-to, and we all make it a habit to secure clients access to their own wifi networks. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] capstan
That particular winch was approximately $1800 new. Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wallace Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 1:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] capstan Than ks Rick, What is the approx. cost? I have seen a couple that tower guys put together, but had trouble finding the parts. Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rick Harnish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 05:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], ''WISPA General List'' Subject: RE: [WISPA] capstan Chris, I bought a 120v model this summer. We love it. http://www.myte.com/products_utility.html http://www.myte.com/distributors.asp?State=oh Happy New Years! Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 4:36 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] capstan Im looking for a reese hitch mount 12v capstan. Anybody have any pointers to a good one? Thanks Chris -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
