date:20070816

Personally, I think the secret is not the connector, but just need a good 
undamaged Crimper. They do wear out, and I find that most connector failures 
are due to the Crimper itself.

I do it the old fasion way, with shielded jacks. It works every time.
But then again, I'd still be using MSDOS, if the software industry didn't 
force me to change :-)


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] RJ-45 and crimpers



Funny, I can do them both in about the same time.

George

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Time George, time.

I can do a connector, perfectly, every time, in 1/4th of the time that it 
takes the old way.


And I NEVER have to redo them.

Yeah it sucks paying $.50 for a connector, but my time and my sanity are 
worth it!


And ONE call back because of a flaky connector covers my connector costs 
for years.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] RJ-45 and crimpers



I know those EZ's are easy, but they are expensive.

Why don't you just learn to use the cheap ones and get it right. Why ay 
more if you don't have to?


George

Mike Hammett wrote:
The RJ-45 male connectors and crimpers I use are a PITA sometimes. 
What are some nice connectors and crimpers to use?  The female ends I 
use are really easy to put in the right order (and stay there), they 
don't have to be the exact length, etc.


That said, I'm looking at possibly needing to install some shielded 
cable.  I'd imagine they'd need a connector made for shielded cable. 
Suggestions on this route are appreciated as well.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



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Re: [WISPA] Interesting tool.

2007-08-16 Thread Butch Evans


On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, George Rogato wrote:


http://www.greenlee.com/promotions/summer/cast_in_deal.pdf


having used those in a couple places, I can say they are VERY cool. 
They claim to be able to go 50', but you gotta have a LOT of room 
and GOOD aim to make that happen.


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[WISPA] BLM fees


Hi,

We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM 
(Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee for 
being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are now 
doing audits on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and 
trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees.


As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner has 
paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the fee to 
$5,500 per year.


Any suggestions on how to start fighting this?

Travis
Microserv

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Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service


Mike,

Charge what you want, but you are making the big mistake that many make, 
that end up failing. Under estimating costs.


Even less complicated and less challenging field service professions or even 
carry-in commodity shops charge more than that, (Your heating/AC guy, 
Mechanic, Landscaper, Exterminator, CompUSA, etc), there is a reason.


Its better to OVERCHARGE, and then have the margin to stand behind, warrant, 
and discount your work as needed thereafter. You get more perceived value by 
doing that. When you set your rates high, you establish a higher worth of 
your time, and then when you are required to discount, a higher value is put 
on it by the clients.  Charging $40, is admission that you are only worth 
$40, and that means services delivered perfectly and warranted in the 
customer's mind.


What people under estimate most is the cost of Recalls and Warrantee.  You 
may charge someone for 1 hour ($40/hr) with little travel costs incurred 
when scheduled conveniently. But then if there is a recall, to go back it 
might not be efficient, possibly a special trip, and ends up being 3 hours 
of your time for free, now making your labor rate $10/hr. When you charge 
for your recalls, and they will happen, it looks MUCH worse to the customer, 
than just charging a higher rate in the first place.


Then problem two is scaling it. Business sure is easy when you are the only 
guy, can handle the work load yuorself, have free time, work just comes in, 
calls forwarded to the cell phone, and you are in control of the quality. 
But as you grow you learn that Staff needs to be managed, and business needs 
to be sold, it does not sell itself, and you can't complete work and answer 
phones at the same time.


I can share some IBM statisitics for you (from my service management past 
life) They stated that to pay for the salary of a single field service 
staff member, they allocated 400 computers supported per Field staff member. 
They stated for every Dollar paid to the Field tech, they had to bill 8 
times that dollar, to cover all the overhead costs of doing the business, to 
be profitable.  So if you want to pay yourself $20/hour, you need to charge 
$160 / hour.  Trust that to be true, and then challenge yourself to figure 
out why and how they came up with that number 8X.
Such as... accounting, invoicing, collections, service fees, warrantee, 
purchasing, finance, Profit for investors, overhead, travel/vehichle, 
management, training, benefits, RD, communications, forms/material, 
utilities, and getting through the slow and tough times when guys are on 
salary and the phone aint ringing. It happens.


Its much harder to increase your rates after you have established yourself 
as a lower worth. For example, starting out, they get the top dog CEO for 
$40/hour. Then when you grow, you find your hired help is not as good, but 
you learn they need to bill more, for you t obe profitable. So now your 
trying to tell the customer that you need to charge them $60/hour for a less 
qualified technician. People Lose customers over this.  Its also fun when 
you learned you paid your tech for 40 hours, but he only turned in 20hrs of 
invoices.


These comments are based on Field Service Repair for per insodent 
maintenance. This may not apply to long term technical staff placement. As 
the overhead costs are much different, when someone is just scheduled to 
show up on a scheduled basis for long periods, paid for straight time, 
regardless of quality of work, and no bill tracking.


I highly recommend that you do not sell services under market, by more than 
$5/hr less or so. Its not necessary, and in the long run it will come back 
to haunt you. Been there done that.


What you need to do is get the phone book and start calling, pretend to be a 
customer, and determine average market rate in your neighborhood. And don't 
do much less.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service


Currently it is only myself, so I pocket 100% of it.  I'll expand upon my 
thoughts not to defend my price, but to say where I'm coming from in an 
attempt to figure out if my current system won't scale or if everyone else 
is just screwing their customers.


That said, I don't see how all of those things really add up to that much 
money.  At $20/hour, that's just under $42k/year for a full time employee. 
Make that just over $43k after you figure in unemployment, social 
security, and Medicare.  I only pay income tax on what I profit, so that's 
not part of the equation.


Office space and use is pretty cheap.  $250 for the whole office, I have 
options on other office spaces in the building.


Most any problem can be quickly diagnosed and repaired, being able to 
include travel time within the 1 hour

Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service

Its is possible to make money in service at $40/hr, if it is the right 
circumstance.
For example, in our prime generally charging $125/hr average, we still took 
contractor work from resellers as low as $35/hr.
But the difference was that the reseller incurred all the other cost (sales, 
advertising, no pays, covered cash flow,etc).
We could expect to get an order every day, didn;t have to do anything but 
call the customer to tell them when we'd arrive, all else was taken care of.
We had two-three days to respond for cost effective scheduling/travel. So we 
used it as filler work.  We did our customers first, and then added 
efficiencies by tacking on the lower revenue work located near by.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service



Mike,

Charge what you want, but you are making the big mistake that many make, 
that end up failing. Under estimating costs.


Even less complicated and less challenging field service professions or 
even carry-in commodity shops charge more than that, (Your heating/AC guy, 
Mechanic, Landscaper, Exterminator, CompUSA, etc), there is a reason.


Its better to OVERCHARGE, and then have the margin to stand behind, 
warrant, and discount your work as needed thereafter. You get more 
perceived value by doing that. When you set your rates high, you establish 
a higher worth of your time, and then when you are required to discount, a 
higher value is put on it by the clients.  Charging $40, is admission that 
you are only worth $40, and that means services delivered perfectly and 
warranted in the customer's mind.


What people under estimate most is the cost of Recalls and Warrantee.  You 
may charge someone for 1 hour ($40/hr) with little travel costs incurred 
when scheduled conveniently. But then if there is a recall, to go back it 
might not be efficient, possibly a special trip, and ends up being 3 hours 
of your time for free, now making your labor rate $10/hr. When you charge 
for your recalls, and they will happen, it looks MUCH worse to the 
customer, than just charging a higher rate in the first place.


Then problem two is scaling it. Business sure is easy when you are the 
only guy, can handle the work load yuorself, have free time, work just 
comes in, calls forwarded to the cell phone, and you are in control of the 
quality. But as you grow you learn that Staff needs to be managed, and 
business needs to be sold, it does not sell itself, and you can't complete 
work and answer phones at the same time.


I can share some IBM statisitics for you (from my service management past 
life) They stated that to pay for the salary of a single field service 
staff member, they allocated 400 computers supported per Field staff 
member. They stated for every Dollar paid to the Field tech, they had to 
bill 8 times that dollar, to cover all the overhead costs of doing the 
business, to be profitable.  So if you want to pay yourself $20/hour, you 
need to charge $160 / hour.  Trust that to be true, and then challenge 
yourself to figure out why and how they came up with that number 8X.
Such as... accounting, invoicing, collections, service fees, warrantee, 
purchasing, finance, Profit for investors, overhead, travel/vehichle, 
management, training, benefits, RD, communications, forms/material, 
utilities, and getting through the slow and tough times when guys are on 
salary and the phone aint ringing. It happens.


Its much harder to increase your rates after you have established yourself 
as a lower worth. For example, starting out, they get the top dog CEO for 
$40/hour. Then when you grow, you find your hired help is not as good, but 
you learn they need to bill more, for you t obe profitable. So now your 
trying to tell the customer that you need to charge them $60/hour for a 
less qualified technician. People Lose customers over this.  Its also fun 
when you learned you paid your tech for 40 hours, but he only turned in 
20hrs of invoices.


These comments are based on Field Service Repair for per insodent 
maintenance. This may not apply to long term technical staff placement. As 
the overhead costs are much different, when someone is just scheduled to 
show up on a scheduled basis for long periods, paid for straight time, 
regardless of quality of work, and no bill tracking.


I highly recommend that you do not sell services under market, by more 
than $5/hr less or so. Its not necessary, and in the long run it will come 
back to haunt you. Been there done that.


What you need to do is get the phone book and start calling, pretend to be 
a customer, and determine average market rate in your neighborhood. And 
don't do much less.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Mike

Re: [WISPA] BLM fees

Well, not sure $500 per month is that bad? I'd recommend suggesting a 
compromise, and locking down a longer term contract in the process.


One way is to go public, Local tower company threatening to disconnect 
local resident from Broadband in rural america, and get the local 
government/elected officials involved.
The local governement controls the permitting and can give the tower guys 
headaches. Of course than can alienate tower guys, and is a last resort 
tactic.


The other approach is to build your self, or start the investigation 
process, and fax a copy of your tower proposal to your rep (showing its a 
reality and are serious), and let them know if he raises your rates, you 
will build instead, and solict his other tower tenants at lower rates.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:31 PM
Subject: [WISPA] BLM fees



Hi,

We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM 
(Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee for 
being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are now 
doing audits on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and 
trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees.


As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner has 
paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the fee to 
$5,500 per year.


Any suggestions on how to start fighting this?

Travis
Microserv

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Re: [WISPA] BLM fees


Travis,

You should fall under the WISP heading here:
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/what/lands/realty/rental_schedule/ 
comm_uses_a1.pdf

Depending on what zone you are in the fees could be from 2-13,000.

The USFS/BLM is actually ahead of the game with this site:
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/what/lands/realty/management.htm

These figures are generated by an office in Portland, OR IIRC.

ryan




On Aug 16, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on  
BLM (Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat  
fee for being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers).  
They are now doing audits on all of the towers in our area  
(Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category  
for fees.


As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower  
owner has paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to  
raise the fee to $5,500 per year.


Any suggestions on how to start fighting this?

Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] BLM fees


Tom,

I think you missed the idea. Let me explain a little more and use a 
current example.


We rent space on a commercial tower that is 120ft tall. There are 
several cell companies and smaller people like us on this tower. It is 
in a very rural area (even for Idaho) and yet we still pay $250/month 
because it's the ONLY tower in this area. We currently serve 11 
customers at $40/month from this tower.


If BLM raises the fees to the tower owner, those will get passed along 
to me. Meaning the rent for this tower could go to $750/month ($250 for 
tower rent, $500 for BLM). That is unacceptable in this area. Sure, if 
you are downtown Phoenix or Seattle or something that would be fine, but 
this is an area that probably has less than 100 households within a 20 
mile radius.


If this happens, it will be better for us to just disconnect the 11 
customers and be done with this area. THIS is how BLM is helping get 
internet to rural America. Good job BLM... keep up the good work. :(


Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:
Well, not sure $500 per month is that bad? I'd recommend suggesting a 
compromise, and locking down a longer term contract in the process.


One way is to go public, Local tower company threatening to 
disconnect local resident from Broadband in rural america, and get 
the local government/elected officials involved.
The local governement controls the permitting and can give the tower 
guys headaches. Of course than can alienate tower guys, and is a last 
resort tactic.


The other approach is to build your self, or start the investigation 
process, and fax a copy of your tower proposal to your rep (showing 
its a reality and are serious), and let them know if he raises your 
rates, you will build instead, and solict his other tower tenants at 
lower rates.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:31 PM
Subject: [WISPA] BLM fees



Hi,

We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM 
(Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee 
for being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are 
now doing audits on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) 
and trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees.


As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner 
has paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the 
fee to $5,500 per year.


Any suggestions on how to start fighting this?

Travis
Microserv
 


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269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM





 


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Re: [WISPA] BLM fees


Tom,

I also forgot to mention... putting another tower up anywhere CLOSE to 
an existing tower is almost impossible. BLM's take is unless the current 
tower is over 90% capacity, there is no need for a new tower.


And, even if you get it approved, it takes over 2 years for the 
paperwork to get thru BLM before you can start construction... which is 
a whole other mess. These are remote, mountaintop towers. Driving in a 
4x4 truck takes 2 hours... a cement truck would take 4 hours, etc.


Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:
Well, not sure $500 per month is that bad? I'd recommend suggesting a 
compromise, and locking down a longer term contract in the process.


One way is to go public, Local tower company threatening to 
disconnect local resident from Broadband in rural america, and get 
the local government/elected officials involved.
The local governement controls the permitting and can give the tower 
guys headaches. Of course than can alienate tower guys, and is a last 
resort tactic.


The other approach is to build your self, or start the investigation 
process, and fax a copy of your tower proposal to your rep (showing 
its a reality and are serious), and let them know if he raises your 
rates, you will build instead, and solict his other tower tenants at 
lower rates.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:31 PM
Subject: [WISPA] BLM fees



Hi,

We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM 
(Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee 
for being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are 
now doing audits on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) 
and trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees.


As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner 
has paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the 
fee to $5,500 per year.


Any suggestions on how to start fighting this?

Travis
Microserv
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM





 


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Re: [WISPA] BLM fees


Thanks Ryan. This is what I was looking for.

Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

Travis,

You should fall under the WISP heading here:
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/what/lands/realty/rental_schedule/comm_uses_a1.pdf
Depending on what zone you are in the fees could be from 2-13,000.

The USFS/BLM is actually ahead of the game with this site:
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/what/lands/realty/management.htm

These figures are generated by an office in Portland, OR IIRC.

ryan




On Aug 16, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM 
(Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee 
for being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are 
now doing audits on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) 
and trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees.


As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner 
has paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the 
fee to $5,500 per year.


Any suggestions on how to start fighting this?

Travis
Microserv
 


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[WISPA] Zyxel Wireless Router Replacement

2007-08-16 Thread Carl Shivers

About a year ago, we got a good buy on 100 Zyxel P334WTs, $30 each. We are
trying to find a replacement router for our residential customers in the
same range. We liked this router because it had remote management and SNMP
management. 

 

Anyone have any suggestions.


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Re: [WISPA] BLM fees


Yep. I missed the point. I found Ryan's posted links useful.

However, what we found here is that, when costs go up for the tower 
companies, it doesn't neessarilly mean the cost has to go up for all 
colocators equally/proportionally, even if agreements say so. Just because, 
all that matters is what its worth to the Colocator to stay, and whether the 
leasor can profit from that, all things considered. Sometimes, the 
colocators with the highest revenue potential subsidize everyone else.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] BLM fees



Tom,

I think you missed the idea. Let me explain a little more and use a 
current example.


We rent space on a commercial tower that is 120ft tall. There are several 
cell companies and smaller people like us on this tower. It is in a very 
rural area (even for Idaho) and yet we still pay $250/month because it's 
the ONLY tower in this area. We currently serve 11 customers at $40/month 
from this tower.


If BLM raises the fees to the tower owner, those will get passed along to 
me. Meaning the rent for this tower could go to $750/month ($250 for tower 
rent, $500 for BLM). That is unacceptable in this area. Sure, if you are 
downtown Phoenix or Seattle or something that would be fine, but this is 
an area that probably has less than 100 households within a 20 mile 
radius.


If this happens, it will be better for us to just disconnect the 11 
customers and be done with this area. THIS is how BLM is helping get 
internet to rural America. Good job BLM... keep up the good work. :(


Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:
Well, not sure $500 per month is that bad? I'd recommend suggesting a 
compromise, and locking down a longer term contract in the process.


One way is to go public, Local tower company threatening to disconnect 
local resident from Broadband in rural america, and get the local 
government/elected officials involved.
The local governement controls the permitting and can give the tower guys 
headaches. Of course than can alienate tower guys, and is a last resort 
tactic.


The other approach is to build your self, or start the investigation 
process, and fax a copy of your tower proposal to your rep (showing its a 
reality and are serious), and let them know if he raises your rates, you 
will build instead, and solict his other tower tenants at lower rates.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:31 PM
Subject: [WISPA] BLM fees



Hi,

We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM 
(Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee for 
being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are now 
doing audits on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and 
trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees.


As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner has 
paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the fee to 
$5,500 per year.


Any suggestions on how to start fighting this?

Travis
Microserv


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Re: [WISPA] BLM fees


I see now, how this is a totally different situation.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] BLM fees



Tom,

I also forgot to mention... putting another tower up anywhere CLOSE to an 
existing tower is almost impossible. BLM's take is unless the current 
tower is over 90% capacity, there is no need for a new tower.


And, even if you get it approved, it takes over 2 years for the paperwork 
to get thru BLM before you can start construction... which is a whole 
other mess. These are remote, mountaintop towers. Driving in a 4x4 truck 
takes 2 hours... a cement truck would take 4 hours, etc.


Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:
Well, not sure $500 per month is that bad? I'd recommend suggesting a 
compromise, and locking down a longer term contract in the process.


One way is to go public, Local tower company threatening to disconnect 
local resident from Broadband in rural america, and get the local 
government/elected officials involved.
The local governement controls the permitting and can give the tower guys 
headaches. Of course than can alienate tower guys, and is a last resort 
tactic.


The other approach is to build your self, or start the investigation 
process, and fax a copy of your tower proposal to your rep (showing its a 
reality and are serious), and let them know if he raises your rates, you 
will build instead, and solict his other tower tenants at lower rates.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:31 PM
Subject: [WISPA] BLM fees



Hi,

We are currently co-located on several towers that are located on BLM 
(Forest Service) land. The tower owners have paid a mostly flat fee for 
being on the ground (even with small, 20ft Rohn towers). They are now 
doing audits on all of the towers in our area (Southeast Idaho) and 
trying to put us in the cell phone category for fees.


As an example, a 20ft tower that we just rent space. The tower owner has 
paid $1,950 per year previously. They are now trying to raise the fee to 
$5,500 per year.


Any suggestions on how to start fighting this?

Travis
Microserv


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Re: [WISPA] BLM fees


My understanding of how BLM fees work are as follows:

1) An empty communications building has very low, if any, fees. 

2) As carriers are added to the building, the building owner is assessed 
fees based on the inventory of the building.   This inventory is based 
on how many carriers and what type of carrier they are.  Adding a user 
adds a definate fee, which can be tied to the carrier.  Dropping a 
carrier subtracts the same amount.  The standard method in my neck of 
the woods is for the building owner to pass on 100% of the BLM fee tied 
to the operation of that carrier to the carrier.   That is, if you are a 
TV station at a site, you get to pay what the BLM charges the owner for 
you to be at that site. 

3) Most WISPS in rural areas are eligible for RUS loans (whether or not 
they elect to take them out).  If you are RUS loan elegible, you are 
also exempt from BLM fees.  Thus, adding you to a building should not 
change the rent the building owner pays for that building.   There is 
some paperwork you will need to provide to the BLM for this purpose. 

4) If you have a tower rent agreement which states that you have to pay 
BLM fees which are potentially not related to your operation, then you 
need to renegotiate, because you will end up paying for everyone else's 
use of the tower since your operation will generally not cause any fees 
to be incurred (or very low fees to be incurred), and it isn't fair for 
you to be subsidising everyone else's use of the tower.


-forrest

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[WISPA] GPS


Hi,

Has anyone equipped their installer vehicles with dash-mounted GPS 
systems? We have been using the cheap USB GPS adapters with the 
installers laptops and using Streets 2007. This works pretty well, but 
now with the prices down on the dash mount models, I'm wondering about 
installing those.


Any input?

Travis
Microserv

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RE: [WISPA] GPS

2007-08-16 Thread Ralph

Hide them when the guys are out of the trucks. I just lost my Garmin Nuvi
360 from the car in the parking lot.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 5:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] GPS

Hi,

Has anyone equipped their installer vehicles with dash-mounted GPS 
systems? We have been using the cheap USB GPS adapters with the 
installers laptops and using Streets 2007. This works pretty well, but 
now with the prices down on the dash mount models, I'm wondering about 
installing those.

Any input?

Travis
Microserv

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Re: [WISPA] BLM fees


Travis Johnson wrote:

 They are now doing audits on all of the towers in our area 
(Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for 
fees. 


You are *NOT* in the cell phone category for fees.

In fact, you are most likely fee Exempt.  See 
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/news/regulatory/2800-Final/2800f.html , 
especially those parts referring to RUS or  REA.


Some interesting quotes from this document...

``Rights-of-way shall be granted, issued, or renewed, without rental 
fees, for electric or telephone facilities eligible for financing 
pursuant to the Rural Electrification Act of 1936, as amended, 
determined without regard to any application requirement under that Act 
or any extensions from such facilities.'' Congress made this change to 
exempt from rent those rights-of-way for electric or telephone 
facilities eligible for REA financing, but not financed through REA.
Therefore, it is the eligibility of the facilities, rather than the 
eligibility of the owner or operator of the facilities, that is the 
focus of amended section 504(g). If electric or telephone facilities 
within a right-of-way are financed by REA, or are eligible for such 
financing, the right-of-way qualifies for a rent exemption. Thus, large
utilities and rural cooperatives alike are eligible for rent exemptions 
if the facilities that they build are REA eligible. Previous regulations 
did not reflect the 1996 changes to the statute and final paragraph (d) 
of this section implements current statutory authority.


-and-

Under those provisions, telephone service ``shall be deemed to mean any 
communication service for the transmission or reception of voice, data, 
sounds, signals, pictures, writing, or signs of all kinds by wire, 
fiber, radio, light, or other visual or electromagnetic means, and shall 
include all telephone lines, facilities, or systems used in the 
rendition of such service; but shall not be deemed to mean message 
telegram service or community antenna television system services or 
facilities other than those intended exclusively for educational 
purposes, or radio broadcasting services or facilities within the 
meaning of section 3(o) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended.'' 
Rural area ``shall be deemed to mean any area of the United States not 
included within the boundaries of any incorporated or unincorporated 
city, village, or borough having a population in excess of 5000 
inhabitants.''








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RE: [WISPA] BLM fees

You have just made me smile.. Big. :)

ryan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Forrest W. Christian
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] BLM fees

Travis Johnson wrote:

  They are now doing audits on all of the towers in our area 
 (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for 
 fees. 

You are *NOT* in the cell phone category for fees.

In fact, you are most likely fee Exempt.  See 
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/news/regulatory/2800-Final/2800f.html , 
especially those parts referring to RUS or  REA.

Some interesting quotes from this document...

``Rights-of-way shall be granted, issued, or renewed, without rental 
fees, for electric or telephone facilities eligible for financing 
pursuant to the Rural Electrification Act of 1936, as amended, 
determined without regard to any application requirement under that Act 
or any extensions from such facilities.'' Congress made this change to 
exempt from rent those rights-of-way for electric or telephone 
facilities eligible for REA financing, but not financed through REA.
Therefore, it is the eligibility of the facilities, rather than the 
eligibility of the owner or operator of the facilities, that is the 
focus of amended section 504(g). If electric or telephone facilities 
within a right-of-way are financed by REA, or are eligible for such 
financing, the right-of-way qualifies for a rent exemption. Thus, large
utilities and rural cooperatives alike are eligible for rent exemptions 
if the facilities that they build are REA eligible. Previous regulations 
did not reflect the 1996 changes to the statute and final paragraph (d) 
of this section implements current statutory authority.

-and-

Under those provisions, telephone service ``shall be deemed to mean any 
communication service for the transmission or reception of voice, data, 
sounds, signals, pictures, writing, or signs of all kinds by wire, 
fiber, radio, light, or other visual or electromagnetic means, and shall 
include all telephone lines, facilities, or systems used in the 
rendition of such service; but shall not be deemed to mean message 
telegram service or community antenna television system services or 
facilities other than those intended exclusively for educational 
purposes, or radio broadcasting services or facilities within the 
meaning of section 3(o) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended.'' 
Rural area ``shall be deemed to mean any area of the United States not 
included within the boundaries of any incorporated or unincorporated 
city, village, or borough having a population in excess of 5000 
inhabitants.''

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Re: [WISPA] BLM fees


So how do I apply for this status? Anyone have a quick link?

Travis
Microserv

Forrest W. Christian wrote:

Travis Johnson wrote:

 They are now doing audits on all of the towers in our area 
(Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for 
fees. 


You are *NOT* in the cell phone category for fees.

In fact, you are most likely fee Exempt.  See 
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/news/regulatory/2800-Final/2800f.html , 
especially those parts referring to RUS or  REA.


Some interesting quotes from this document...

``Rights-of-way shall be granted, issued, or renewed, without rental 
fees, for electric or telephone facilities eligible for financing 
pursuant to the Rural Electrification Act of 1936, as amended, 
determined without regard to any application requirement under that 
Act or any extensions from such facilities.'' Congress made this 
change to exempt from rent those rights-of-way for electric or 
telephone facilities eligible for REA financing, but not financed 
through REA.
Therefore, it is the eligibility of the facilities, rather than the 
eligibility of the owner or operator of the facilities, that is the 
focus of amended section 504(g). If electric or telephone facilities 
within a right-of-way are financed by REA, or are eligible for such 
financing, the right-of-way qualifies for a rent exemption. Thus, large
utilities and rural cooperatives alike are eligible for rent 
exemptions if the facilities that they build are REA eligible. 
Previous regulations did not reflect the 1996 changes to the statute 
and final paragraph (d) of this section implements current statutory 
authority.


-and-

Under those provisions, telephone service ``shall be deemed to mean 
any communication service for the transmission or reception of voice, 
data, sounds, signals, pictures, writing, or signs of all kinds by 
wire, fiber, radio, light, or other visual or electromagnetic means, 
and shall include all telephone lines, facilities, or systems used in 
the rendition of such service; but shall not be deemed to mean message 
telegram service or community antenna television system services or 
facilities other than those intended exclusively for educational 
purposes, or radio broadcasting services or facilities within the 
meaning of section 3(o) of the Communications Act of 1934, as 
amended.'' Rural area ``shall be deemed to mean any area of the United 
States not included within the boundaries of any incorporated or 
unincorporated city, village, or borough having a population in excess 
of 5000 inhabitants.''







 


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RUS grants (was: RE: [WISPA] BLM fees)

Sorry to hijack this thread...

Has anyone on this list ever received a RUS grant? 

Care to contact me off list please?

Thanks!

ryan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] BLM fees

So how do I apply for this status? Anyone have a quick link?

Travis
Microserv

Forrest W. Christian wrote:
 Travis Johnson wrote:

  They are now doing audits on all of the towers in our area 
 (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for 
 fees. 

 You are *NOT* in the cell phone category for fees.

 In fact, you are most likely fee Exempt.  See 
 http://www.blm.gov/nhp/news/regulatory/2800-Final/2800f.html , 
 especially those parts referring to RUS or  REA.

 Some interesting quotes from this document...

 ``Rights-of-way shall be granted, issued, or renewed, without rental 
 fees, for electric or telephone facilities eligible for financing 
 pursuant to the Rural Electrification Act of 1936, as amended, 
 determined without regard to any application requirement under that 
 Act or any extensions from such facilities.'' Congress made this 
 change to exempt from rent those rights-of-way for electric or 
 telephone facilities eligible for REA financing, but not financed 
 through REA.
 Therefore, it is the eligibility of the facilities, rather than the 
 eligibility of the owner or operator of the facilities, that is the 
 focus of amended section 504(g). If electric or telephone facilities 
 within a right-of-way are financed by REA, or are eligible for such 
 financing, the right-of-way qualifies for a rent exemption. Thus, large
 utilities and rural cooperatives alike are eligible for rent 
 exemptions if the facilities that they build are REA eligible. 
 Previous regulations did not reflect the 1996 changes to the statute 
 and final paragraph (d) of this section implements current statutory 
 authority.

 -and-

 Under those provisions, telephone service ``shall be deemed to mean 
 any communication service for the transmission or reception of voice, 
 data, sounds, signals, pictures, writing, or signs of all kinds by 
 wire, fiber, radio, light, or other visual or electromagnetic means, 
 and shall include all telephone lines, facilities, or systems used in 
 the rendition of such service; but shall not be deemed to mean message 
 telegram service or community antenna television system services or 
 facilities other than those intended exclusively for educational 
 purposes, or radio broadcasting services or facilities within the 
 meaning of section 3(o) of the Communications Act of 1934, as 
 amended.'' Rural area ``shall be deemed to mean any area of the United 
 States not included within the boundaries of any incorporated or 
 unincorporated city, village, or borough having a population in excess 
 of 5000 inhabitants.''








 

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Re: [WISPA] BLM fees

Travis Johnson wrote:

So how do I apply for this status? Anyone have a quick link?

This is done on a site by site basis from an email I have from the
RUS program:

---
BLM is currently in the process of developing a standardized form that
eligible RUS borrowers would fill in to apply for the exemption to
paying the rights-of-way rents. We are working with them on this form,
but it hasn't been finalized yet. Until this form is finalized, RUS
usually will provide a letter that certifies that a specific facility
would qualify. Since your firm is an internet company, I assume your
facility would qualify under the broadband program? (You will need to
provide a facility description to the broadband division to confirm this).

For your reference, I'll provide a short description of the exemption for RUS
borrowers. The exemption for RUS borrowers is based on the Federal Land Policy
and Management Act of 1976. Here's the link to the document:
http://www.blm.gov/flpma/FLPMA.pdf

The relevant section is FLPMA Section 504 (g) [43 U.S.C. 1764 (g)], including subsequent amendments such as Public Law 104-333. I'll cite the relevant information from that section:

Rights-of-way shall be granted, issued, or renewed, without rental fees, for
electric or telephone facilities, eligible for financing pursuant to the Rural
Electrification Act of 1936, as amended [7. U.S.C.
901 et seq.], determined without regard to any application requirement under
that act, [P.L 104-333, 1996], or any extensions from such facilities:
Provided, That nothing in this sentence shall be construed
to affect the authority of the Secretary granting, issuing, or renewing the
right-of-way to require reimbursement of reasonable administrative and other costs
pursuant to the second sentence of this subsection.

Eligibility for the rights-of-way exemption is based on the facility being
eligible for RUS financing, not the whole company. For example, a company
might have some facilities that are eligible for RUS financing, and others that
are not. It is not a blanket exemption that applies to the whole company. Only
those facilities that would be eligible for RUS
financing are exempt from paying rights-of-way rents. If you provide facility
specifics (equipment, location, etc) to the broadband division (or any other telecom
program division you think the facility is eligible to receive financing from), they
can provide you with a letter that certifies that those facilities would be eligible
for RUS financing.

I'm still in the process of getting the letter for two BLM sites I have. The
link for the broadband loan program is
http://www.usda.gov/rus/telecom/broadband.htm .

Some of you may want to apply for the loan... after all it's 4% money.

-forrest

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[WISPA] PITA customers...

I am looking for advice and examples of what to do with PITA customers.

 

I have a few that are just shy of abusive on the phone.

 

Do you read them the riot act? Do you turn them off? Do you collect an early
termination fee? 

 

Share your stories or policies.

 

Thanks!

 

ryan 


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Re: [WISPA] PITA customers...

2007-08-16 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

A wise man once told me that 10% of your customers cause you 90% of your 
work.


With that advice I decided the best thing to do was send the 10% to my 
competition.


Brian

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

I am looking for advice and examples of what to do with PITA customers.

 


I have a few that are just shy of abusive on the phone.

 


Do you read them the riot act? Do you turn them off? Do you collect an early
termination fee? 

 


Share your stories or policies.

 


Thanks!

 

ryan 



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RE: [WISPA] PITA customers...

Yes,

But how do you do that? Do you write them a letter? Repo your gear? 

ryan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 5:41 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] PITA customers...

A wise man once told me that 10% of your customers cause you 90% of your 
work.

With that advice I decided the best thing to do was send the 10% to my 
competition.

Brian

D. Ryan Spott wrote:
 I am looking for advice and examples of what to do with PITA customers.

  

 I have a few that are just shy of abusive on the phone.

  

 Do you read them the riot act? Do you turn them off? Do you collect an
early
 termination fee? 

  

 Share your stories or policies.

  

 Thanks!

  

 ryan 




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Re: [WISPA] PITA customers...

2007-08-16 Thread Brian Rohrbacher





Well, not very tactfully usually. I ignore them until they leave.
Then I go get me gear when they cancel. I think it's better if they
cancel, then it;s their decision. Sure, you get a little bad word of
mouth, but they were already talking bad about you anyway because they
were not happy.

Brian

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

  Yes,

But how do you do that? Do you write them a letter? Repo your gear? 

ryan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 5:41 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] PITA customers...

A wise man once told me that 10% of your customers cause you 90% of your 
work.

With that advice I decided the best thing to do was send the 10% to my 
competition.

Brian

D. Ryan Spott wrote:
  
  
I am looking for advice and examples of what to do with PITA customers.

 

I have a few that are just shy of abusive on the phone.

 

Do you read them the riot act? Do you turn them off? Do you collect an

  
  early
  
  
termination fee? 

 

Share your stories or policies.

 

Thanks!

 

ryan 



  
  

  
  
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[WISPA] Re: RUS grants

2007-08-16 Thread Scottie Arnett

I would like to know how to get these too. I talked to the RUS and they told me 
that since a telco coop was already receiving RUS funding in my area, that I 
could not apply.

-- Original Message --
From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date:  Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:55:45 -0700

Sorry to hijack this thread...

Has anyone on this list ever received a RUS grant? 

Care to contact me off list please?

Thanks!

ryan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] BLM fees

So how do I apply for this status? Anyone have a quick link?

Travis
Microserv

Forrest W. Christian wrote:
 Travis Johnson wrote:

  They are now doing audits on all of the towers in our area 
 (Southeast Idaho) and trying to put us in the cell phone category for 
 fees. 

 You are *NOT* in the cell phone category for fees.

 In fact, you are most likely fee Exempt.  See 
 http://www.blm.gov/nhp/news/regulatory/2800-Final/2800f.html , 
 especially those parts referring to RUS or  REA.

 Some interesting quotes from this document...

 ``Rights-of-way shall be granted, issued, or renewed, without rental 
 fees, for electric or telephone facilities eligible for financing 
 pursuant to the Rural Electrification Act of 1936, as amended, 
 determined without regard to any application requirement under that 
 Act or any extensions from such facilities.'' Congress made this 
 change to exempt from rent those rights-of-way for electric or 
 telephone facilities eligible for REA financing, but not financed 
 through REA.
 Therefore, it is the eligibility of the facilities, rather than the 
 eligibility of the owner or operator of the facilities, that is the 
 focus of amended section 504(g). If electric or telephone facilities 
 within a right-of-way are financed by REA, or are eligible for such 
 financing, the right-of-way qualifies for a rent exemption. Thus, large
 utilities and rural cooperatives alike are eligible for rent 
 exemptions if the facilities that they build are REA eligible. 
 Previous regulations did not reflect the 1996 changes to the statute 
 and final paragraph (d) of this section implements current statutory 
 authority.

 -and-

 Under those provisions, telephone service ``shall be deemed to mean 
 any communication service for the transmission or reception of voice, 
 data, sounds, signals, pictures, writing, or signs of all kinds by 
 wire, fiber, radio, light, or other visual or electromagnetic means, 
 and shall include all telephone lines, facilities, or systems used in 
 the rendition of such service; but shall not be deemed to mean message 
 telegram service or community antenna television system services or 
 facilities other than those intended exclusively for educational 
 purposes, or radio broadcasting services or facilities within the 
 meaning of section 3(o) of the Communications Act of 1934, as 
 amended.'' Rural area ``shall be deemed to mean any area of the United 
 States not included within the boundaries of any incorporated or 
 unincorporated city, village, or borough having a population in excess 
 of 5000 inhabitants.''

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Re: [WISPA] PITA customers...

2007-08-16 Thread Butch Evans


On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, D. Ryan Spott wrote:

I am looking for advice and examples of what to do with PITA 
customers.


Hmm.  This is a tough question, really.  It depends more on what 
they are doing to make themselves a PITA.  Just a couple of stories 
perhaps will tell you how I handle that kind of thing.


Many years ago (this was during the heyday of dialup), I had a 
customer who I saw scanning my servers.  He was a young kid, but I 
knew he was capable to do what I saw him do.  For him, I called his 
mother and let her know what was happening, and let her know that it 
would not be tolerated.  She went on the defensive immediately.  My 
son would not do intentional harm... and the like.  At any rate, I 
let her know it couldn't continue.  The very next day, I saw a 
dramatic increase in the same activity from his IP.  I called his 
mother again, and asked to speak with her son and her at the same 
time.  She got him on the phone, and I explained that what he was up 
to was criminal, and if I saw it again, we would file charges and 
their account would be terminated.  Again, the excuses, but when we 
saw it again, I spoke to a friend of mine, who just happened to be 
the constable in their town (their next door neighbor, in fact).  He 
had no clue what he was saying, but he went by there and told them 
of the complaint.  We dropped the account, then called each of our 
competitors who offered local dialup in the area, provided evidence 
and left it at that.  When they moved about a year later, I don't 
think they had ever been able to get online since that day (at least 
not local).


Another customer on an ISP that I am a small owner in was running a 
game server.  We repeatedly noticed that he was causing issues for 
the other customers.  I asked him repeatedly to move the game server 
off my network.  He never complied, so I began creating an 
increasingly difficult situation for him by firewalling and queueing 
his connection until he moved to another network.  In this case, I 
WANTED him on the competitor's network (his only option was 1 of 3 
802.11b networks).  Good riddance.


One other story.  This customer was one who had grandkids that came 
in and were installing P2P apps on her computer.  She knew nothing 
about it, but it continued to happen.  We continued to help her get 
rid of the software (3 or 4 times) until she finally was convinced 
that her sweet grandkids would no longer be able to use her 
computer.  Problem solved, and we kept a customer.  Scored some good 
word of mouth in the process as well.



I have a few that are just shy of abusive on the phone.


This type I generally just tolerated to a point.  If they are just 
rude, then that is just part of what happens when your customer base 
grows large enough.  This is a hard one, because I know how I would 
LIKE to handle it...Just not a good idea to go there.


FWIW, I've got stories like the ones above (many of them) from every 
ISP I have owned/worked for.  This is just a part of the game that 
you have to deal with.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
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Re: [WISPA] PITA customers...

2007-08-16 Thread Sam Tetherow

Usually all I need to do is firmly let them know that their current 
attitude will not be tolerated. I basically treat them as I would my 
children if they are acting up, 9 times out of 10 they apologize and 
back down because usually it is just because they are frustrated with 
some aspect of their services (usually crap on their machines).


For the 1 in 10 who continue to be rude I will apologize for 'not being 
able to provide the level of service that they require for the price I 
am charging' and tell them someone will be over to pick up the equipment 
on the next business day. If they are REALLY a PITA I don't back down 
when they start apologizing profusely at this point.


I don't worry too much about the bad word of mouth because these people 
are usually this rude to most everyone around them so they don't get 
much sympathy or credit when they start bitching about something.


Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

Yes,

But how do you do that? Do you write them a letter? Repo your gear? 


ryan

  



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Re: [WISPA] PITA customers...

2007-08-16 Thread Joe Miller

I've been known to fire customers like that. Life is
too short to put upwith crap like that. I felt really
good after that too.
--- D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I am looking for advice and examples of what to do
 with PITA customers.
 
  
 
 I have a few that are just shy of abusive on the
 phone.
 
  
 
 Do you read them the riot act? Do you turn them off?
 Do you collect an early
 termination fee? 
 
  
 
 Share your stories or policies.
 
  
 
 Thanks!
 
  
 
 ryan 
 


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 http://signup.wispa.org/


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Re: [WISPA] PITA customers...