Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh
No big surprise here. The problem with the municipal networks that I saw was the cities that thought they were going to get all this infrastructure for free. I'm sorry but I don't think you can get enough ad revenue from any of these networks to support the real cost of building a system properly. In reality all of these cities should have learned from Verizon and their wi-fi deployment in New York City. Verizon was never able to build on every phone booth because they didn't all have power at them. They discovered after building what they could, that usage patterns emerged. People were only apt to use the hotspots in locations where they could conveniently fire up their computers. Municipal mesh networks should do the same. Deploy what I call Hot Pods only in areas that make sense. Residential neighborhoods make no sense in my opinion. There are many other options for broadband in those neighborhoods and with the trees typically in those areas, your node density per user ratio stinks (and your customer per node ratio does as well). That is what drives up the cost of building these networks. If a municipality wants ubiquitous coverage all over a city for their employees to use, then they should be paying a large portion of the cost of that network. You can't expect someone else to pay for it for you. Wireless is great but to compete in residential areas over a mesh on 802.11b/g is not a good business model. With things like FIOS and cable being able to deliver 3 to 10 times the bandwidth to a customer, mesh does not make sense and the consumer knows this. Wireless is good for mobility but most users do not need it everywhere all the time. No let me really climb up on my soapbox. As far as free internet service for citizens, that makes about as much sense as free telephone, electricity and gas If they worry about their underprivileged neighborhoods not have equal opportunity access to the internet, have them stand around their local library where they already offer this. Unless there are lines a mile long at the computers, I doubt there is that much of a pent up need. These same people can somehow find a way to pay $5 a pack for cigarettes, I don't think $35 a month or less for broadband service that they can then use to reduce other cost like phone bills will make a difference. Broadband internet is an essential infrastructure for a community. That is true. Providing it for free can not be done unless the municipality is going to foot the bill. All WISP's know it takes money to deliver bandwidth. Many of these mesh projects were led down the Primrose path by their internal IT geeks who thought a muni mesh network was as simple as throwing up a bunch of meraki nodes or flashing some linksys routers with open source tools. Those Utopian idealists forget to think about who then bears the cost of delivering the rest of the commercial internet to their love and hug fest off soap boxlol Don't get me wrong, I was the Chief Engineer for EarthLink on the Philly project. I like the idea of municipal mesh and I know they can work. I just think many municipalities and some commercial companies needs a reality check on what it takes in cost to build one. Then they need to examine what it takes to make a profitable business model from one. Eventually these networks will be working well and with devices like the IPhone, cellular carriers will welcome them to offload some of their traffic (roaming revenue?). Their networks certainly won't be able to shoulder the bandwidth demand of all the kids watching TV on their phones. Muni mesh networks will be able to absorb a lot of that demand. It's just time the politicians realized it costs some long term money to develop this... I could go on for hours but I'm know I'm just preaching to the choir on this topic. It's Monday, guess I needed to vent... :-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh http://wifinetnews.com/archives/008158.html -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 FCC License # PG-12-25133 Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
[WISPA] Strange managed switch request
Hey guys, I am looking for an 8-port, 10/100 managed switch for a remote site. It needs to be a small form factor switch. The weird part is that it needs to be 12V DC! Anyone know of such a beast? Thanks in advance, ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh
The muni wifi deals are the ones operating under the belief of: build it and they will come As a wisp who has slowly, but consistently built out my network, thats a bad theory. We build it where there is demand. George Brian Webster wrote: No big surprise here. The problem with the municipal networks that I saw was the cities that thought they were going to get all this infrastructure for free. I'm sorry but I don't think you can get enough ad revenue from any of these networks to support the real cost of building a system properly. In reality all of these cities should have learned from Verizon and their wi-fi deployment in New York City. Verizon was never able to build on every phone booth because they didn't all have power at them. They discovered after building what they could, that usage patterns emerged. People were only apt to use the hotspots in locations where they could conveniently fire up their computers. Municipal mesh networks should do the same. Deploy what I call Hot Pods only in areas that make sense. Residential neighborhoods make no sense in my opinion. There are many other options for broadband in those neighborhoods and with the trees typically in those areas, your node density per user ratio stinks (and your customer per node ratio does as well). That is what drives up the cost of building these networks. If a municipality wants ubiquitous coverage all over a city for their employees to use, then they should be paying a large portion of the cost of that network. You can't expect someone else to pay for it for you. Wireless is great but to compete in residential areas over a mesh on 802.11b/g is not a good business model. With things like FIOS and cable being able to deliver 3 to 10 times the bandwidth to a customer, mesh does not make sense and the consumer knows this. Wireless is good for mobility but most users do not need it everywhere all the time. No let me really climb up on my soapbox. As far as free internet service for citizens, that makes about as much sense as free telephone, electricity and gas If they worry about their underprivileged neighborhoods not have equal opportunity access to the internet, have them stand around their local library where they already offer this. Unless there are lines a mile long at the computers, I doubt there is that much of a pent up need. These same people can somehow find a way to pay $5 a pack for cigarettes, I don't think $35 a month or less for broadband service that they can then use to reduce other cost like phone bills will make a difference. Broadband internet is an essential infrastructure for a community. That is true. Providing it for free can not be done unless the municipality is going to foot the bill. All WISP's know it takes money to deliver bandwidth. Many of these mesh projects were led down the Primrose path by their internal IT geeks who thought a muni mesh network was as simple as throwing up a bunch of meraki nodes or flashing some linksys routers with open source tools. Those Utopian idealists forget to think about who then bears the cost of delivering the rest of the commercial internet to their love and hug fest off soap boxlol Don't get me wrong, I was the Chief Engineer for EarthLink on the Philly project. I like the idea of municipal mesh and I know they can work. I just think many municipalities and some commercial companies needs a reality check on what it takes in cost to build one. Then they need to examine what it takes to make a profitable business model from one. Eventually these networks will be working well and with devices like the IPhone, cellular carriers will welcome them to offload some of their traffic (roaming revenue?). Their networks certainly won't be able to shoulder the bandwidth demand of all the kids watching TV on their phones. Muni mesh networks will be able to absorb a lot of that demand. It's just time the politicians realized it costs some long term money to develop this... I could go on for hours but I'm know I'm just preaching to the choir on this topic. It's Monday, guess I needed to vent... :-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh http://wifinetnews.com/archives/008158.html -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 FCC License # PG-12-25133 Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] tripod source
Can you get the 2 footers? Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc wrote: Got them for 17.95 plus shipping, but I think they are the 3 footers. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, I am looking for a source for roof-mount tripods (the 2ft versions). thanks, Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] tripod source
Hi, I am looking for a source for roof-mount tripods (the 2ft versions). thanks, Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request
Whats your budget? Linksys has one for about $150, then you can step up to industrial type of units(Cisco, Moxa, Etherwan, Garret, Sixnet ect) those will start at about $500 up ... they usually take 12 - 72 vdc Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 12:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request Hey guys, I am looking for an 8-port, 10/100 managed switch for a remote site. It needs to be a small form factor switch. The weird part is that it needs to be 12V DC! Anyone know of such a beast? Thanks in advance, ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request
http://www.icpdas-usa.com/ns_208_ethernet_switch.html for $155.00 I bought one for a solar powered ap I'm building because of its very low power consumption (2.2W). 8 ports, 10 to 30 vdc, din rail mountable. I haven't installed it yet though, so this is only a lead, not an endorsement. I attached a pic for scale. Jason D. Ryan Spott wrote: My budget is around 100-200 bucks. The small form factor is important. I find that the ratings for these switches is usually from 5-72VDC. I am looking to see if anyone on the list is actually using a switch like this in production. If someone says yes, I have this device running on 12VDC then I will go buy that device. Thanks! ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 8:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request Whats your budget? Linksys has one for about $150, then you can step up to industrial type of units(Cisco, Moxa, Etherwan, Garret, Sixnet ect) those will start at about $500 up ... they usually take 12 - 72 vdc Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 12:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request Hey guys, I am looking for an 8-port, 10/100 managed switch for a remote site. It needs to be a small form factor switch. The weird part is that it needs to be 12V DC! Anyone know of such a beast? Thanks in advance, ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM) --- inline: switch.jpg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request
Slightly above your budget, but managed DIN mount with 12-48 VDC compatibility: http://www.bb-elec.com/product_multi_family.asp?MultiFamilyId=81TrailType=SubTrail=5 Patrick Shoemaker President, Vector Data Systems LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] office: (301) 358-1690 x36 mobile: (410) 991-5791 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Jason wrote: Oops! I didn't catch that. They might have a managed version; but doubtful. Try clicking around their main site: http://www.icpdas.com Jason D. Ryan Spott wrote: Almost there! I need management. :( ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request http://www.icpdas-usa.com/ns_208_ethernet_switch.html for $155.00 I bought one for a solar powered ap I'm building because of its very low power consumption (2.2W). 8 ports, 10 to 30 vdc, din rail mountable. I haven't installed it yet though, so this is only a lead, not an endorsement. I attached a pic for scale. Jason D. Ryan Spott wrote: My budget is around 100-200 bucks. The small form factor is important. I find that the ratings for these switches is usually from 5-72VDC. I am looking to see if anyone on the list is actually using a switch like this in production. If someone says yes, I have this device running on 12VDC then I will go buy that device. Thanks! ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 8:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request Whats your budget? Linksys has one for about $150, then you can step up to industrial type of units(Cisco, Moxa, Etherwan, Garret, Sixnet ect) those will start at about $500 up ... they usually take 12 - 72 vdc Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 12:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request Hey guys, I am looking for an 8-port, 10/100 managed switch for a remote site. It needs to be a small form factor switch. The weird part is that it needs to be 12V DC! Anyone know of such a beast? Thanks in advance, ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM) --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM) --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
[WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Mikrotik CPE with funny ENet port
I have an RB133c that works great except it will not pass IP traffic on the Ethernet port. I can log into the port with WinBox and MAC. I can ping the port address from a device across the wireless. It just will not move any IP traffic on the wire. Any suggestions? -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tripod source
Got them for 17.95 plus shipping, but I think they are the 3 footers. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, I am looking for a source for roof-mount tripods (the 2ft versions). thanks, Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request
Oops! I didn't catch that. They might have a managed version; but doubtful. Try clicking around their main site: http://www.icpdas.com Jason D. Ryan Spott wrote: Almost there! I need management. :( ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jason Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request http://www.icpdas-usa.com/ns_208_ethernet_switch.html for $155.00 I bought one for a solar powered ap I'm building because of its very low power consumption (2.2W). 8 ports, 10 to 30 vdc, din rail mountable. I haven't installed it yet though, so this is only a lead, not an endorsement. I attached a pic for scale. Jason D. Ryan Spott wrote: My budget is around 100-200 bucks. The small form factor is important. I find that the ratings for these switches is usually from 5-72VDC. I am looking to see if anyone on the list is actually using a switch like this in production. If someone says "yes, I have this device running on 12VDC" then I will go buy that device. Thanks! ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 8:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request Whats your budget? Linksys has one for about $150, then you can step up to industrial type of units(Cisco, Moxa, Etherwan, Garret, Sixnet ect) those will start at about $500 up ... they usually take 12 - 72 vdc Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 12:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request Hey guys, I am looking for an 8-port, 10/100 managed switch for a remote site. It needs to be a small form factor switch. The weird part is that it needs to be 12V DC! Anyone know of such a beast? Thanks in advance, ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM) --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM) --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request
Almost there! I need management. :( ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request http://www.icpdas-usa.com/ns_208_ethernet_switch.html for $155.00 I bought one for a solar powered ap I'm building because of its very low power consumption (2.2W). 8 ports, 10 to 30 vdc, din rail mountable. I haven't installed it yet though, so this is only a lead, not an endorsement. I attached a pic for scale. Jason D. Ryan Spott wrote: My budget is around 100-200 bucks. The small form factor is important. I find that the ratings for these switches is usually from 5-72VDC. I am looking to see if anyone on the list is actually using a switch like this in production. If someone says yes, I have this device running on 12VDC then I will go buy that device. Thanks! ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 8:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request Whats your budget? Linksys has one for about $150, then you can step up to industrial type of units(Cisco, Moxa, Etherwan, Garret, Sixnet ect) those will start at about $500 up ... they usually take 12 - 72 vdc Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 12:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request Hey guys, I am looking for an 8-port, 10/100 managed switch for a remote site. It needs to be a small form factor switch. The weird part is that it needs to be 12V DC! Anyone know of such a beast? Thanks in advance, ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM) --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request
My budget is around 100-200 bucks. The small form factor is important. I find that the ratings for these switches is usually from 5-72VDC. I am looking to see if anyone on the list is actually using a switch like this in production. If someone says yes, I have this device running on 12VDC then I will go buy that device. Thanks! ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 8:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request Whats your budget? Linksys has one for about $150, then you can step up to industrial type of units(Cisco, Moxa, Etherwan, Garret, Sixnet ect) those will start at about $500 up ... they usually take 12 - 72 vdc Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 12:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request Hey guys, I am looking for an 8-port, 10/100 managed switch for a remote site. It needs to be a small form factor switch. The weird part is that it needs to be 12V DC! Anyone know of such a beast? Thanks in advance, ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
Is there a pattern (day, time, weather, etc.) when the customer connections stop? Scott Reed wrote: I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 FCC License # PG-12-25133 Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
With a poor RF link or a link suffering from interference, small packets get through easier than large packets. Calculate the fade margin (in dB) of your RF link first. Then, confirm that interference is not a problem. For large packets to get through consistently, the fade margin needs to be high and the interference low. Justin S. Wilson wrote: Scott, If you do a large byte ping do you get packet loss? We just replaced a 532 board that would ping fine until you sent a large ping to it. We have seen this in the past with the 532's. The ethernet becomes weak. Send a 1000 byte ping to it or whatever the proper terminology is and see if it starts dropping more pings. Justin -- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mikrotik Certified - CCNA - ComTrain - ACSA - CCNT --- WEB: http://www.mtin.net WEB: http://j2sw.mtin.net WEB: http://www.ndwave.com AOL IM: j2sw From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:55:24 -0500 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 FCC License # PG-12-25133 Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh
I appreciate your insight Brian. I know your were on the front lines in Philly with Earthlink. I am sure there was much knowledge gained from your involvement there. Thanks for sharing a bit of what you experienced. It is a shame we did not think of having you speak about the Philly project at the upcoming ISPCON. I think the speaking slots have been filled but maybe they could make an exception and add you in. It may be that you are not allowed to do so. If you are allowed to speak about the Earthlink / Philly project then I am guessing this is something that would be much appreciated by all of us. I will let you decide whether you think you would want to do this. If you do then email [EMAIL PROTECTED] so they can discuss this with you. They are building the agenda for the speaking slots at the show. Scriv On Feb 4, 2008 8:34 AM, Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No big surprise here. The problem with the municipal networks that I saw was the cities that thought they were going to get all this infrastructure for free. I'm sorry but I don't think you can get enough ad revenue from any of these networks to support the real cost of building a system properly. In reality all of these cities should have learned from Verizon and their wi-fi deployment in New York City. Verizon was never able to build on every phone booth because they didn't all have power at them. They discovered after building what they could, that usage patterns emerged. People were only apt to use the hotspots in locations where they could conveniently fire up their computers. Municipal mesh networks should do the same. Deploy what I call Hot Pods only in areas that make sense. Residential neighborhoods make no sense in my opinion. There are many other options for broadband in those neighborhoods and with the trees typically in those areas, your node density per user ratio stinks (and your customer per node ratio does as well). That is what drives up the cost of building these networks. If a municipality wants ubiquitous coverage all over a city for their employees to use, then they should be paying a large portion of the cost of that network. You can't expect someone else to pay for it for you. Wireless is great but to compete in residential areas over a mesh on 802.11b/g is not a good business model. With things like FIOS and cable being able to deliver 3 to 10 times the bandwidth to a customer, mesh does not make sense and the consumer knows this. Wireless is good for mobility but most users do not need it everywhere all the time. No let me really climb up on my soapbox. As far as free internet service for citizens, that makes about as much sense as free telephone, electricity and gas If they worry about their underprivileged neighborhoods not have equal opportunity access to the internet, have them stand around their local library where they already offer this. Unless there are lines a mile long at the computers, I doubt there is that much of a pent up need. These same people can somehow find a way to pay $5 a pack for cigarettes, I don't think $35 a month or less for broadband service that they can then use to reduce other cost like phone bills will make a difference. Broadband internet is an essential infrastructure for a community. That is true. Providing it for free can not be done unless the municipality is going to foot the bill. All WISP's know it takes money to deliver bandwidth. Many of these mesh projects were led down the Primrose path by their internal IT geeks who thought a muni mesh network was as simple as throwing up a bunch of meraki nodes or flashing some linksys routers with open source tools. Those Utopian idealists forget to think about who then bears the cost of delivering the rest of the commercial internet to their love and hug fest off soap boxlol Don't get me wrong, I was the Chief Engineer for EarthLink on the Philly project. I like the idea of municipal mesh and I know they can work. I just think many municipalities and some commercial companies needs a reality check on what it takes in cost to build one. Then they need to examine what it takes to make a profitable business model from one. Eventually these networks will be working well and with devices like the IPhone, cellular carriers will welcome them to offload some of their traffic (roaming revenue?). Their networks certainly won't be able to shoulder the bandwidth demand of all the kids watching TV on their phones. Muni mesh networks will be able to absorb a lot of that demand. It's just time the politicians realized it costs some long term money to develop this... I could go on for hours but I'm know I'm just preaching to the choir on this topic. It's Monday, guess I needed to vent... :-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Sunday,
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
BTW, you can tell whether it is CM9 or UBQ by the MAC address: 00:15:6D - UBQ 00:0B:6B - CM9 Mark Williams Locustworld Certified Mesh Engineer Mesh network design, engineering, training and consultation http://www.markw.net --- Looking for a great webhost provider? Click here. http://www.bluehost.com/track/racerx/text1 On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 12:39 -0800, Jack Unger wrote: Is there a pattern (day, time, weather, etc.) when the customer connections stop? Scott Reed wrote: I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
Try replacing the SR2 with another CM9. We had problems when trying to use CM9 with SR5 cards from time to times. So links are perfect, but others would give us hell. Worth a shot if you have a spare CM9 card. I expect some to say that's not the problem, but just reporting what we have seen with SR cards with the RB532's. Thank You, Cameron Kilton Broadband Department Assistant Systems Administrator Midcoast Internet Solutions http://www.midcoast.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (207)594-8277 ext. 108 -- High speed internet access on Islands? Most ISPs would say YOU'RE crazy, we'll say When do you want it? http://www.midcoast.com/mis/broadband/wireless/ --- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 4:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior No time that I can find. The link stays connected, that is right now both ends show the link has been up 12 hours, but I know at 10:00AM we had a customer call because he could not hit the Internet. Right now the link is moving 2+Mbps. RSSI is 71/72. SNR is report as 19. CCQ is a dismal 77/59. This link ran for 6 months without a hiccup. Now it is giving me fits. Jack Unger wrote: Is there a pattern (day, time, weather, etc.) when the customer connections stop? Scott Reed wrote: I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
This may or may not make a difference, but I mostly use 6th generation chips (R52s, XR5s, and one from Gigabyte). I'm told they listen better. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
No time that I can find. The link stays connected, that is right now both ends show the link has been up 12 hours, but I know at 10:00AM we had a customer call because he could not hit the Internet. Right now the link is moving 2+Mbps. RSSI is 71/72. SNR is report as 19. CCQ is a dismal 77/59. This link ran for 6 months without a hiccup. Now it is giving me fits. Jack Unger wrote: Is there a pattern (day, time, weather, etc.) when the customer connections stop? Scott Reed wrote: I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
Scott, If you do a large byte ping do you get packet loss? We just replaced a 532 board that would ping fine until you sent a large ping to it. We have seen this in the past with the 532's. The ethernet becomes weak. Send a 1000 byte ping to it or whatever the proper terminology is and see if it starts dropping more pings. Justin -- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mikrotik Certified - CCNA - ComTrain - ACSA - CCNT --- WEB: http://www.mtin.net WEB: http://j2sw.mtin.net WEB: http://www.ndwave.com AOL IM: j2sw From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:55:24 -0500 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
Was this device recoverable or just dead? I have a 532 that is exhibiting the same thing. ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justin S. Wilson Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 12:10 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior Scott, If you do a large byte ping do you get packet loss? We just replaced a 532 board that would ping fine until you sent a large ping to it. We have seen this in the past with the 532's. The ethernet becomes weak. Send a 1000 byte ping to it or whatever the proper terminology is and see if it starts dropping more pings. Justin -- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mikrotik Certified - CCNA - ComTrain - ACSA - CCNT --- WEB: http://www.mtin.net WEB: http://j2sw.mtin.net WEB: http://www.ndwave.com AOL IM: j2sw From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:55:24 -0500 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
Shows what happens when you aren't where you can check and just guess. One end is so old (for my network) that it is a Senao something, MAC: 00:02:6F The other end is CM9. And with my fat fingers, another oops, it is a 5GHz link. Mark Williams wrote: BTW, you can tell whether it is CM9 or UBQ by the MAC address: 00:15:6D - UBQ 00:0B:6B - CM9 Mark Williams Locustworld Certified Mesh Engineer Mesh network design, engineering, training and consultation http://www.markw.net --- Looking for a great webhost provider? Click here. http://www.bluehost.com/track/racerx/text1 On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 12:39 -0800, Jack Unger wrote: Is there a pattern (day, time, weather, etc.) when the customer connections stop? Scott Reed wrote: I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
I would look at the XR cards over the SR cards as they have the newer chipsets. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior Yeah, I think I am going to get SR5s on both ends. With the winds we have been having, won't hurt to get someone up there to confirm alignment, too. Mike Hammett wrote: This may or may not make a difference, but I mostly use 6th generation chips (R52s, XR5s, and one from Gigabyte). I'm told they listen better. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
We just marked it as dead and sent it back. This particular AP had 65 customers on it and we are not going to trust it again. Even pings to the ethernet side were poor. Pings from the mikrotik to associated customers were fine. Justin -- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mikrotik Certified - CCNA - ComTrain - ACSA - CCNT --- WEB: http://www.mtin.net WEB: http://j2sw.mtin.net WEB: http://www.ndwave.com AOL IM: j2sw From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 12:15:51 -0800 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior Was this device recoverable or just dead? I have a 532 that is exhibiting the same thing. ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justin S. Wilson Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 12:10 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior Scott, If you do a large byte ping do you get packet loss? We just replaced a 532 board that would ping fine until you sent a large ping to it. We have seen this in the past with the 532's. The ethernet becomes weak. Send a 1000 byte ping to it or whatever the proper terminology is and see if it starts dropping more pings. Justin -- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mikrotik Certified - CCNA - ComTrain - ACSA - CCNT --- WEB: http://www.mtin.net WEB: http://j2sw.mtin.net WEB: http://www.ndwave.com AOL IM: j2sw From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:55:24 -0500 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
Yeah, I think I am going to get SR5s on both ends. With the winds we have been having, won't hurt to get someone up there to confirm alignment, too. Mike Hammett wrote: This may or may not make a difference, but I mostly use 6th generation chips (R52s, XR5s, and one from Gigabyte). I'm told they listen better. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh
Ralph, You and I were both there in Philly doing optimization and we proved that it does work and quite well. My point was that there are too many people who have no idea what it takes to deploy a wireless network making decisions, setting up budgets and expectations. I've been working on some other muni projects and these seem to understand that they themselves must kick in some funding. Muni networks will be here in the long run, just not in the form they were first conceived. Hit me off list by the way. I'm trying to figure out if I worked for your dad up in Portland on an ATT project a few years back. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ralph Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 7:33 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh Hello Brian- Yes- Many of us were involved in the EL projects. I built their Milpitas, California network. First network to be completely rolled out on time and not in chunks First network with a totally stealthed two Canopy cluster AP site And a few other firsts. That network is finished, it works, and works well. I had the pleasure of using it again while at Cisco for a big partner meeting three weeks ago. It covers part of Cisco's campus! Ha! It is too bad that EL's business model was a failure and that their CEO who had the wireless vision died suddenly, and that the remaining one thought that EL would be better in the Cellular business (Helio). I was in Portland two weeks ago and noticed the severe lack of Metro-Fi. Will they be the next to go? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh I appreciate your insight Brian. I know your were on the front lines in Philly with Earthlink. I am sure there was much knowledge gained from your involvement there. Thanks for sharing a bit of what you experienced. It is a shame we did not think of having you speak about the Philly project at the upcoming ISPCON. I think the speaking slots have been filled but maybe they could make an exception and add you in. It may be that you are not allowed to do so. If you are allowed to speak about the Earthlink / Philly project then I am guessing this is something that would be much appreciated by all of us. I will let you decide whether you think you would want to do this. If you do then email [EMAIL PROTECTED] so they can discuss this with you. They are building the agenda for the speaking slots at the show. Scriv On Feb 4, 2008 8:34 AM, Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No big surprise here. The problem with the municipal networks that I saw was the cities that thought they were going to get all this infrastructure for free. I'm sorry but I don't think you can get enough ad revenue from any of these networks to support the real cost of building a system properly. In reality all of these cities should have learned from Verizon and their wi-fi deployment in New York City. Verizon was never able to build on every phone booth because they didn't all have power at them. They discovered after building what they could, that usage patterns emerged. People were only apt to use the hotspots in locations where they could conveniently fire up their computers. Municipal mesh networks should do the same. Deploy what I call Hot Pods only in areas that make sense. Residential neighborhoods make no sense in my opinion. There are many other options for broadband in those neighborhoods and with the trees typically in those areas, your node density per user ratio stinks (and your customer per node ratio does as well). That is what drives up the cost of building these networks. If a municipality wants ubiquitous coverage all over a city for their employees to use, then they should be paying a large portion of the cost of that network. You can't expect someone else to pay for it for you. Wireless is great but to compete in residential areas over a mesh on 802.11b/g is not a good business model. With things like FIOS and cable being able to deliver 3 to 10 times the bandwidth to a customer, mesh does not make sense and the consumer knows this. Wireless is good for mobility but most users do not need it everywhere all the time. No let me really climb up on my soapbox. As far as free internet service for citizens, that makes about as much sense as free telephone, electricity and gas If they worry about their underprivileged neighborhoods not have equal opportunity access to the internet, have them stand around their local library where they already offer this. Unless there are lines a mile long at the computers, I doubt there is that much of a pent up need. These same people can somehow find a way to pay $5 a pack for cigarettes, I
Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh
Hello Brian- Yes- Many of us were involved in the EL projects. I built their Milpitas, California network. First network to be completely rolled out on time and not in chunks First network with a totally stealthed two Canopy cluster AP site And a few other firsts. That network is finished, it works, and works well. I had the pleasure of using it again while at Cisco for a big partner meeting three weeks ago. It covers part of Cisco's campus! Ha! It is too bad that EL's business model was a failure and that their CEO who had the wireless vision died suddenly, and that the remaining one thought that EL would be better in the Cellular business (Helio). I was in Portland two weeks ago and noticed the severe lack of Metro-Fi. Will they be the next to go? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh I appreciate your insight Brian. I know your were on the front lines in Philly with Earthlink. I am sure there was much knowledge gained from your involvement there. Thanks for sharing a bit of what you experienced. It is a shame we did not think of having you speak about the Philly project at the upcoming ISPCON. I think the speaking slots have been filled but maybe they could make an exception and add you in. It may be that you are not allowed to do so. If you are allowed to speak about the Earthlink / Philly project then I am guessing this is something that would be much appreciated by all of us. I will let you decide whether you think you would want to do this. If you do then email [EMAIL PROTECTED] so they can discuss this with you. They are building the agenda for the speaking slots at the show. Scriv On Feb 4, 2008 8:34 AM, Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No big surprise here. The problem with the municipal networks that I saw was the cities that thought they were going to get all this infrastructure for free. I'm sorry but I don't think you can get enough ad revenue from any of these networks to support the real cost of building a system properly. In reality all of these cities should have learned from Verizon and their wi-fi deployment in New York City. Verizon was never able to build on every phone booth because they didn't all have power at them. They discovered after building what they could, that usage patterns emerged. People were only apt to use the hotspots in locations where they could conveniently fire up their computers. Municipal mesh networks should do the same. Deploy what I call Hot Pods only in areas that make sense. Residential neighborhoods make no sense in my opinion. There are many other options for broadband in those neighborhoods and with the trees typically in those areas, your node density per user ratio stinks (and your customer per node ratio does as well). That is what drives up the cost of building these networks. If a municipality wants ubiquitous coverage all over a city for their employees to use, then they should be paying a large portion of the cost of that network. You can't expect someone else to pay for it for you. Wireless is great but to compete in residential areas over a mesh on 802.11b/g is not a good business model. With things like FIOS and cable being able to deliver 3 to 10 times the bandwidth to a customer, mesh does not make sense and the consumer knows this. Wireless is good for mobility but most users do not need it everywhere all the time. No let me really climb up on my soapbox. As far as free internet service for citizens, that makes about as much sense as free telephone, electricity and gas If they worry about their underprivileged neighborhoods not have equal opportunity access to the internet, have them stand around their local library where they already offer this. Unless there are lines a mile long at the computers, I doubt there is that much of a pent up need. These same people can somehow find a way to pay $5 a pack for cigarettes, I don't think $35 a month or less for broadband service that they can then use to reduce other cost like phone bills will make a difference. Broadband internet is an essential infrastructure for a community. That is true. Providing it for free can not be done unless the municipality is going to foot the bill. All WISP's know it takes money to deliver bandwidth. Many of these mesh projects were led down the Primrose path by their internal IT geeks who thought a muni mesh network was as simple as throwing up a bunch of meraki nodes or flashing some linksys routers with open source tools. Those Utopian idealists forget to think about who then bears the cost of delivering the rest of the commercial internet to their love and hug fest off soap boxlol Don't get me wrong, I was the Chief Engineer for EarthLink on the Philly
Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh
Yes from a technical point of view. Beyond that I am not at liberty to state. I can say that the subscriber growth also went quite well, much faster than I expected. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown - 2 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 7:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh When you say it does work and quite well I presume you mean from a technical point of view only? - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh Ralph, You and I were both there in Philly doing optimization and we proved that it does work and quite well. My point was that there are too many people who have no idea what it takes to deploy a wireless network making decisions, setting up budgets and expectations. I've been working on some other muni projects and these seem to understand that they themselves must kick in some funding. Muni networks will be here in the long run, just not in the form they were first conceived. Hit me off list by the way. I'm trying to figure out if I worked for your dad up in Portland on an ATT project a few years back. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ralph Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 7:33 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh Hello Brian- Yes- Many of us were involved in the EL projects. I built their Milpitas, California network. First network to be completely rolled out on time and not in chunks First network with a totally stealthed two Canopy cluster AP site And a few other firsts. That network is finished, it works, and works well. I had the pleasure of using it again while at Cisco for a big partner meeting three weeks ago. It covers part of Cisco's campus! Ha! It is too bad that EL's business model was a failure and that their CEO who had the wireless vision died suddenly, and that the remaining one thought that EL would be better in the Cellular business (Helio). I was in Portland two weeks ago and noticed the severe lack of Metro-Fi. Will they be the next to go? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh I appreciate your insight Brian. I know your were on the front lines in Philly with Earthlink. I am sure there was much knowledge gained from your involvement there. Thanks for sharing a bit of what you experienced. It is a shame we did not think of having you speak about the Philly project at the upcoming ISPCON. I think the speaking slots have been filled but maybe they could make an exception and add you in. It may be that you are not allowed to do so. If you are allowed to speak about the Earthlink / Philly project then I am guessing this is something that would be much appreciated by all of us. I will let you decide whether you think you would want to do this. If you do then email [EMAIL PROTECTED] so they can discuss this with you. They are building the agenda for the speaking slots at the show. Scriv On Feb 4, 2008 8:34 AM, Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No big surprise here. The problem with the municipal networks that I saw was the cities that thought they were going to get all this infrastructure for free. I'm sorry but I don't think you can get enough ad revenue from any of these networks to support the real cost of building a system properly. In reality all of these cities should have learned from Verizon and their wi-fi deployment in New York City. Verizon was never able to build on every phone booth because they didn't all have power at them. They discovered after building what they could, that usage patterns emerged. People were only apt to use the hotspots in locations where they could conveniently fire up their computers. Municipal mesh networks should do the same. Deploy what I call Hot Pods only in areas that make sense. Residential neighborhoods make no sense in my opinion. There are many other options for broadband in those neighborhoods and with the trees typically in those areas, your node density per user ratio stinks (and your customer per node ratio does as well). That is what drives up the cost of building these networks. If a municipality wants ubiquitous coverage all over a city for their employees to use, then they should be paying a large portion of the cost of that network. You can't expect someone else to pay for it for you. Wireless is great but to compete in residential areas over a mesh on 802.11b/g is not a good business model. With things
Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior
If it were me I would go with the R52H for everything 2.4 5.x since that is where MT has headed and what they devote their time to these days Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior I would look at the XR cards over the SR cards as they have the newer chipsets. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior Yeah, I think I am going to get SR5s on both ends. With the winds we have been having, won't hurt to get someone up there to confirm alignment, too. Mike Hammett wrote: This may or may not make a difference, but I mostly use 6th generation chips (R52s, XR5s, and one from Gigabyte). I'm told they listen better. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] Strange BH Behavior I have a backhaul link, RB532 w/CM9 (I think) to RB532 w/SR2 (I think) that is a great link, most of the time. Every once in a while it will quite passing traffic. If I setup a ping on the 32 on one end to ping the other, it will go just fine, no packet loss. But eventually all the customer connections will stop passing traffic for 10 seconds to 2 minutes. Then it starts up again. All the while the ping doesn't seem to change its response time. Any ideas what may be going on? -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Strange managed switch request
On Mon, 4 Feb 2008, D. Ryan Spott wrote: If someone says yes, I have this device running on 12VDC then I will go buy that device. See http://www.routerboard.com/comparison.html for the RB192. It can be configured as a switch or bridge. With such a device you have full Mikrotik control of each port for things like per-port firewall rules/QOS and such. These are around $110 and run on 9-28vdc with poe or power header. Very nice device, IMO. -- *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS * *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh
Yes. A mesh system (even meshing on 2.4 along with the users) with the proper amount of bandwidth injection (one gateway for every 3-6 non-gateway nodes), and plenty of Stingers g can work very well. Lord knows we used a bunch of them to counteract the poor Canopy antennas! I now am pretty good with both Tropos and Cisco outdoor mesh, and I ave to say that getting mesh on 5.8 is difficult unless you are in the desert. As far as working as a business, and getting ROI- I don't know. Not if you hire Motorola to install it for you. Way too much wasted resources, time, and money. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 7:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh When you say it does work and quite well I presume you mean from a technical point of view only? - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh Ralph, You and I were both there in Philly doing optimization and we proved that it does work and quite well. My point was that there are too many people who have no idea what it takes to deploy a wireless network making decisions, setting up budgets and expectations. I've been working on some other muni projects and these seem to understand that they themselves must kick in some funding. Muni networks will be here in the long run, just not in the form they were first conceived. Hit me off list by the way. I'm trying to figure out if I worked for your dad up in Portland on an ATT project a few years back. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ralph Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 7:33 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh Hello Brian- Yes- Many of us were involved in the EL projects. I built their Milpitas, California network. First network to be completely rolled out on time and not in chunks First network with a totally stealthed two Canopy cluster AP site And a few other firsts. That network is finished, it works, and works well. I had the pleasure of using it again while at Cisco for a big partner meeting three weeks ago. It covers part of Cisco's campus! Ha! It is too bad that EL's business model was a failure and that their CEO who had the wireless vision died suddenly, and that the remaining one thought that EL would be better in the Cellular business (Helio). I was in Portland two weeks ago and noticed the severe lack of Metro-Fi. Will they be the next to go? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh I appreciate your insight Brian. I know your were on the front lines in Philly with Earthlink. I am sure there was much knowledge gained from your involvement there. Thanks for sharing a bit of what you experienced. It is a shame we did not think of having you speak about the Philly project at the upcoming ISPCON. I think the speaking slots have been filled but maybe they could make an exception and add you in. It may be that you are not allowed to do so. If you are allowed to speak about the Earthlink / Philly project then I am guessing this is something that would be much appreciated by all of us. I will let you decide whether you think you would want to do this. If you do then email [EMAIL PROTECTED] so they can discuss this with you. They are building the agenda for the speaking slots at the show. Scriv On Feb 4, 2008 8:34 AM, Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No big surprise here. The problem with the municipal networks that I saw was the cities that thought they were going to get all this infrastructure for free. I'm sorry but I don't think you can get enough ad revenue from any of these networks to support the real cost of building a system properly. In reality all of these cities should have learned from Verizon and their wi-fi deployment in New York City. Verizon was never able to build on every phone booth because they didn't all have power at them. They discovered after building what they could, that usage patterns emerged. People were only apt to use the hotspots in locations where they could conveniently fire up their computers. Municipal mesh networks should do the same. Deploy what I call Hot Pods only in areas that make sense. Residential neighborhoods make no sense in my opinion. There are many other options for broadband in those neighborhoods and with the trees typically in those areas, your node density per user ratio stinks (and your customer per node
Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh
When you say it does work and quite well I presume you mean from a technical point of view only? - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh Ralph, You and I were both there in Philly doing optimization and we proved that it does work and quite well. My point was that there are too many people who have no idea what it takes to deploy a wireless network making decisions, setting up budgets and expectations. I've been working on some other muni projects and these seem to understand that they themselves must kick in some funding. Muni networks will be here in the long run, just not in the form they were first conceived. Hit me off list by the way. I'm trying to figure out if I worked for your dad up in Portland on an ATT project a few years back. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ralph Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 7:33 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh Hello Brian- Yes- Many of us were involved in the EL projects. I built their Milpitas, California network. First network to be completely rolled out on time and not in chunks First network with a totally stealthed two Canopy cluster AP site And a few other firsts. That network is finished, it works, and works well. I had the pleasure of using it again while at Cisco for a big partner meeting three weeks ago. It covers part of Cisco's campus! Ha! It is too bad that EL's business model was a failure and that their CEO who had the wireless vision died suddenly, and that the remaining one thought that EL would be better in the Cellular business (Helio). I was in Portland two weeks ago and noticed the severe lack of Metro-Fi. Will they be the next to go? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh I appreciate your insight Brian. I know your were on the front lines in Philly with Earthlink. I am sure there was much knowledge gained from your involvement there. Thanks for sharing a bit of what you experienced. It is a shame we did not think of having you speak about the Philly project at the upcoming ISPCON. I think the speaking slots have been filled but maybe they could make an exception and add you in. It may be that you are not allowed to do so. If you are allowed to speak about the Earthlink / Philly project then I am guessing this is something that would be much appreciated by all of us. I will let you decide whether you think you would want to do this. If you do then email [EMAIL PROTECTED] so they can discuss this with you. They are building the agenda for the speaking slots at the show. Scriv On Feb 4, 2008 8:34 AM, Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No big surprise here. The problem with the municipal networks that I saw was the cities that thought they were going to get all this infrastructure for free. I'm sorry but I don't think you can get enough ad revenue from any of these networks to support the real cost of building a system properly. In reality all of these cities should have learned from Verizon and their wi-fi deployment in New York City. Verizon was never able to build on every phone booth because they didn't all have power at them. They discovered after building what they could, that usage patterns emerged. People were only apt to use the hotspots in locations where they could conveniently fire up their computers. Municipal mesh networks should do the same. Deploy what I call Hot Pods only in areas that make sense. Residential neighborhoods make no sense in my opinion. There are many other options for broadband in those neighborhoods and with the trees typically in those areas, your node density per user ratio stinks (and your customer per node ratio does as well). That is what drives up the cost of building these networks. If a municipality wants ubiquitous coverage all over a city for their employees to use, then they should be paying a large portion of the cost of that network. You can't expect someone else to pay for it for you. Wireless is great but to compete in residential areas over a mesh on 802.11b/g is not a good business model. With things like FIOS and cable being able to deliver 3 to 10 times the bandwidth to a customer, mesh does not make sense and the consumer knows this. Wireless is good for mobility but most users do not need it everywhere all the time. No let me really climb up on my soapbox. As far as free internet service for citizens, that makes about as much sense as free telephone, electricity
[WISPA] ATT Wins Licenses to Airwaves
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