Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

[Chuck Profito]

Yes I see that, good point, the dl will do 40Vdc but 24 is max recommended.
It also drops out at 8.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

Yeah but it goes to 28vdc vs 24vdc. Those 4 extra volts might make a  
difference for folks doing 24 volt solar.
On Oct 29, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Chuck Profito wrote:

> Their $135 against $119.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:46 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>
> Some remote control devices I've been looking at for remote
> controlling our generator:
>
> http://www.controlbyweb.com/webrelay-quad/   (this one comes in a
> commercial model that accepts 9-28vdc power)
>
> Greg
>
> On Oct 29, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Chuck Profito wrote:
>
>> Or do it your way and add this to the mix, and to switch radios you
>> don't
>> have to go to the tower.
>>
>> http://www.dinrelay.com
>>
>> this unit saves the trip up the hill.  Small one $125 with auto
>> reboot, 16
>> port $295
>>
>> All of our towers have these and a few repeaters. Now with auto
>> reboot on
>> most of the radio boards,
>> it's mostly used to boot routers, switches, or hung boards.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Mike
>> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:29 PM
>> To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>>
>> Based at least partly on what I've learned on this list:
>>
>> An enclosure can contain radios from 2 different bands with no  
>> issues.
>>
>> A dual band sector has less wind loading than one of each.
>>
>> Radios and enclosures have gotten cheaper.
>>
>> It really wouldn't be any more complicated than having a spare radio
>> "on the tower," if implemented properly. If an entire router or power
>> supply failed there would be an entirely redundant unit ready to go
>> into service.
>>
>> So there would be no single unit.  If either radio, or either router
>> died, the drone would take over.  Each antenna would have a redundant
>> radio in a DIFFERENT enclosure.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> At 09:07 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>>> I think the concept of combining functionality into single units
>>> and fault
>>> tolerant redundancy are mutually exclusive.
>>>
>>> I believe more people have had problems with more complicated
>>> installs than
>>> more simple ones vs. failed components on simple installs.  I think
>>> a well
>>> planned combination of both including redundancy where it counts
>>> would be
>>> best IMO
>>>
>>> Scott Carullo
>>> Brevard Wireless
>>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> From: "Mike" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:05 PM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>>>
>>> I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant  
>>> tower
>>> setup.
>>>
>>> 1 antenna; two radios.  Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio
>>> failed, the other would come on-line.  The replacement climb would  
>>> be
>>> taken out of the EMERGENCY category.
>>>
>>> A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4
>>> (or 900 MHz) degree sectors.  6) small waterproof enclosures would
>>> contain a router and one of each radio.
>>>
>>> I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that
>>> could be used to energize a relay.  Microwave relays are readily
>>> available and have acceptable insertion loss.  Would a stripline
>>> divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer
>>> instead? Passive solutions are always better.  If the antennas were
>>> dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered.  Besides
>>> redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal.
>>>
>>> Has anybody done anything like this?  Can't seem to find any on the
>>> net.
>>>
>>> Am I mad?  Mike
>>>
>>>
>
---
>> -
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>
---
>> -
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
---
>> -
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>
---
>> -
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.or

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

[os10rules]

Yeah but it goes to 28vdc vs 24vdc. Those 4 extra volts might make a  
difference for folks doing 24 volt solar.
On Oct 29, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Chuck Profito wrote:

> Their $135 against $119.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:46 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>
> Some remote control devices I've been looking at for remote
> controlling our generator:
>
> http://www.controlbyweb.com/webrelay-quad/   (this one comes in a
> commercial model that accepts 9-28vdc power)
>
> Greg
>
> On Oct 29, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Chuck Profito wrote:
>
>> Or do it your way and add this to the mix, and to switch radios you
>> don't
>> have to go to the tower.
>>
>> http://www.dinrelay.com
>>
>> this unit saves the trip up the hill.  Small one $125 with auto
>> reboot, 16
>> port $295
>>
>> All of our towers have these and a few repeaters. Now with auto
>> reboot on
>> most of the radio boards,
>> it's mostly used to boot routers, switches, or hung boards.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Mike
>> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:29 PM
>> To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>>
>> Based at least partly on what I've learned on this list:
>>
>> An enclosure can contain radios from 2 different bands with no  
>> issues.
>>
>> A dual band sector has less wind loading than one of each.
>>
>> Radios and enclosures have gotten cheaper.
>>
>> It really wouldn't be any more complicated than having a spare radio
>> "on the tower," if implemented properly. If an entire router or power
>> supply failed there would be an entirely redundant unit ready to go
>> into service.
>>
>> So there would be no single unit.  If either radio, or either router
>> died, the drone would take over.  Each antenna would have a redundant
>> radio in a DIFFERENT enclosure.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> At 09:07 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>>> I think the concept of combining functionality into single units
>>> and fault
>>> tolerant redundancy are mutually exclusive.
>>>
>>> I believe more people have had problems with more complicated
>>> installs than
>>> more simple ones vs. failed components on simple installs.  I think
>>> a well
>>> planned combination of both including redundancy where it counts
>>> would be
>>> best IMO
>>>
>>> Scott Carullo
>>> Brevard Wireless
>>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> From: "Mike" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:05 PM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>>>
>>> I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant  
>>> tower
>>> setup.
>>>
>>> 1 antenna; two radios.  Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio
>>> failed, the other would come on-line.  The replacement climb would  
>>> be
>>> taken out of the EMERGENCY category.
>>>
>>> A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4
>>> (or 900 MHz) degree sectors.  6) small waterproof enclosures would
>>> contain a router and one of each radio.
>>>
>>> I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that
>>> could be used to energize a relay.  Microwave relays are readily
>>> available and have acceptable insertion loss.  Would a stripline
>>> divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer
>>> instead? Passive solutions are always better.  If the antennas were
>>> dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered.  Besides
>>> redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal.
>>>
>>> Has anybody done anything like this?  Can't seem to find any on the
>>> net.
>>>
>>> Am I mad?  Mike
>>>
>>>
> ---
>> -
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
> ---
>> -
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> ---
>> -
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
> ---
>> -
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
> --

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

[Chuck Profito]

Oops, my bad DL's is $150 each 10 + 119

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

Some remote control devices I've been looking at for remote  
controlling our generator:

http://www.controlbyweb.com/webrelay-quad/   (this one comes in a  
commercial model that accepts 9-28vdc power)

Greg

On Oct 29, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Chuck Profito wrote:

> Or do it your way and add this to the mix, and to switch radios you  
> don't
> have to go to the tower.
>
> http://www.dinrelay.com
>
> this unit saves the trip up the hill.  Small one $125 with auto  
> reboot, 16
> port $295
>
> All of our towers have these and a few repeaters. Now with auto  
> reboot on
> most of the radio boards,
> it's mostly used to boot routers, switches, or hung boards.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:29 PM
> To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>
> Based at least partly on what I've learned on this list:
>
> An enclosure can contain radios from 2 different bands with no issues.
>
> A dual band sector has less wind loading than one of each.
>
> Radios and enclosures have gotten cheaper.
>
> It really wouldn't be any more complicated than having a spare radio
> "on the tower," if implemented properly. If an entire router or power
> supply failed there would be an entirely redundant unit ready to go
> into service.
>
> So there would be no single unit.  If either radio, or either router
> died, the drone would take over.  Each antenna would have a redundant
> radio in a DIFFERENT enclosure.
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 09:07 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>> I think the concept of combining functionality into single units  
>> and fault
>> tolerant redundancy are mutually exclusive.
>>
>> I believe more people have had problems with more complicated  
>> installs than
>> more simple ones vs. failed components on simple installs.  I think  
>> a well
>> planned combination of both including redundancy where it counts  
>> would be
>> best IMO
>>
>> Scott Carullo
>> Brevard Wireless
>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> From: "Mike" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:05 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>>
>> I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower
>> setup.
>>
>> 1 antenna; two radios.  Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio
>> failed, the other would come on-line.  The replacement climb would be
>> taken out of the EMERGENCY category.
>>
>> A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4
>> (or 900 MHz) degree sectors.  6) small waterproof enclosures would
>> contain a router and one of each radio.
>>
>> I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that
>> could be used to energize a relay.  Microwave relays are readily
>> available and have acceptable insertion loss.  Would a stripline
>> divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer
>> instead? Passive solutions are always better.  If the antennas were
>> dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered.  Besides
>> redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal.
>>
>> Has anybody done anything like this?  Can't seem to find any on the  
>> net.
>>
>> Am I mad?  Mike
>>
>>
---
> -
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
---
> -
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
---
> -
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
---
> -
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>


> WISPA 

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

[Chuck Profito]

Their $135 against $119.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

Some remote control devices I've been looking at for remote  
controlling our generator:

http://www.controlbyweb.com/webrelay-quad/   (this one comes in a  
commercial model that accepts 9-28vdc power)

Greg

On Oct 29, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Chuck Profito wrote:

> Or do it your way and add this to the mix, and to switch radios you  
> don't
> have to go to the tower.
>
> http://www.dinrelay.com
>
> this unit saves the trip up the hill.  Small one $125 with auto  
> reboot, 16
> port $295
>
> All of our towers have these and a few repeaters. Now with auto  
> reboot on
> most of the radio boards,
> it's mostly used to boot routers, switches, or hung boards.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:29 PM
> To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>
> Based at least partly on what I've learned on this list:
>
> An enclosure can contain radios from 2 different bands with no issues.
>
> A dual band sector has less wind loading than one of each.
>
> Radios and enclosures have gotten cheaper.
>
> It really wouldn't be any more complicated than having a spare radio
> "on the tower," if implemented properly. If an entire router or power
> supply failed there would be an entirely redundant unit ready to go
> into service.
>
> So there would be no single unit.  If either radio, or either router
> died, the drone would take over.  Each antenna would have a redundant
> radio in a DIFFERENT enclosure.
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 09:07 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>> I think the concept of combining functionality into single units  
>> and fault
>> tolerant redundancy are mutually exclusive.
>>
>> I believe more people have had problems with more complicated  
>> installs than
>> more simple ones vs. failed components on simple installs.  I think  
>> a well
>> planned combination of both including redundancy where it counts  
>> would be
>> best IMO
>>
>> Scott Carullo
>> Brevard Wireless
>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> From: "Mike" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:05 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>>
>> I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower
>> setup.
>>
>> 1 antenna; two radios.  Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio
>> failed, the other would come on-line.  The replacement climb would be
>> taken out of the EMERGENCY category.
>>
>> A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4
>> (or 900 MHz) degree sectors.  6) small waterproof enclosures would
>> contain a router and one of each radio.
>>
>> I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that
>> could be used to energize a relay.  Microwave relays are readily
>> available and have acceptable insertion loss.  Would a stripline
>> divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer
>> instead? Passive solutions are always better.  If the antennas were
>> dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered.  Besides
>> redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal.
>>
>> Has anybody done anything like this?  Can't seem to find any on the  
>> net.
>>
>> Am I mad?  Mike
>>
>>
---
> -
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
---
> -
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
---
> -
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
---
> -
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

[os10rules]

Some remote control devices I've been looking at for remote  
controlling our generator:

http://www.controlbyweb.com/webrelay-quad/   (this one comes in a  
commercial model that accepts 9-28vdc power)

Greg

On Oct 29, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Chuck Profito wrote:

> Or do it your way and add this to the mix, and to switch radios you  
> don't
> have to go to the tower.
>
> http://www.dinrelay.com
>
> this unit saves the trip up the hill.  Small one $125 with auto  
> reboot, 16
> port $295
>
> All of our towers have these and a few repeaters. Now with auto  
> reboot on
> most of the radio boards,
> it's mostly used to boot routers, switches, or hung boards.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:29 PM
> To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>
> Based at least partly on what I've learned on this list:
>
> An enclosure can contain radios from 2 different bands with no issues.
>
> A dual band sector has less wind loading than one of each.
>
> Radios and enclosures have gotten cheaper.
>
> It really wouldn't be any more complicated than having a spare radio
> "on the tower," if implemented properly. If an entire router or power
> supply failed there would be an entirely redundant unit ready to go
> into service.
>
> So there would be no single unit.  If either radio, or either router
> died, the drone would take over.  Each antenna would have a redundant
> radio in a DIFFERENT enclosure.
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 09:07 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>> I think the concept of combining functionality into single units  
>> and fault
>> tolerant redundancy are mutually exclusive.
>>
>> I believe more people have had problems with more complicated  
>> installs than
>> more simple ones vs. failed components on simple installs.  I think  
>> a well
>> planned combination of both including redundancy where it counts  
>> would be
>> best IMO
>>
>> Scott Carullo
>> Brevard Wireless
>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> From: "Mike" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:05 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>>
>> I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower
>> setup.
>>
>> 1 antenna; two radios.  Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio
>> failed, the other would come on-line.  The replacement climb would be
>> taken out of the EMERGENCY category.
>>
>> A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4
>> (or 900 MHz) degree sectors.  6) small waterproof enclosures would
>> contain a router and one of each radio.
>>
>> I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that
>> could be used to energize a relay.  Microwave relays are readily
>> available and have acceptable insertion loss.  Would a stripline
>> divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer
>> instead? Passive solutions are always better.  If the antennas were
>> dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered.  Besides
>> redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal.
>>
>> Has anybody done anything like this?  Can't seem to find any on the  
>> net.
>>
>> Am I mad?  Mike
>>
>> ---
> -
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> ---
> -
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
> -
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> ---
> -
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.o

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

[Mike]

Those are cool.  I use their web switches already; never looked at 
that relay product.

Marlons idea is good for repeater sites.  I am thinking of my main 
tower -- 180'.  Scott, I have not lost a radio on that tower in 4 
years, but DID lose an Ethernet port on one after 2 direct strikes in 
a row.  Even threw me out of bed when that happened.

Yeah, it would be more expensive initially, but the peace of mind 
might be worth it.  It would still cost less than single radio 
deployments cost me four years ago.

How about those dual band sectors.  Anybody use any they would recommend?

Mike


At 10:20 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>Or do it your way and add this to the mix, and to switch radios you don't
>have to go to the tower.
>
>http://www.dinrelay.com
>
>this unit saves the trip up the hill.  Small one $125 with auto reboot, 16
>port $295
>
>All of our towers have these and a few repeaters. Now with auto reboot on
>most of the radio boards,
>it's mostly used to boot routers, switches, or hung boards.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Mike
>Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:29 PM
>To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>
>Based at least partly on what I've learned on this list:
>
>An enclosure can contain radios from 2 different bands with no issues.
>
>A dual band sector has less wind loading than one of each.
>
>Radios and enclosures have gotten cheaper.
>
>It really wouldn't be any more complicated than having a spare radio
>"on the tower," if implemented properly. If an entire router or power
>supply failed there would be an entirely redundant unit ready to go
>into service.
>
>So there would be no single unit.  If either radio, or either router
>died, the drone would take over.  Each antenna would have a redundant
>radio in a DIFFERENT enclosure.
>
>Mike
>
>
>At 09:07 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
> >I think the concept of combining functionality into single units and fault
> >tolerant redundancy are mutually exclusive.
> >
> >I believe more people have had problems with more complicated installs than
> >more simple ones vs. failed components on simple installs.  I think a well
> >planned combination of both including redundancy where it counts would be
> >best IMO
> >
> >Scott Carullo
> >Brevard Wireless
> >321-205-1100 x102
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >From: "Mike" 
> >Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:05 PM
> >To: "WISPA General List" 
> >Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
> >
> >I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower
> >setup.
> >
> >1 antenna; two radios.  Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio
> >failed, the other would come on-line.  The replacement climb would be
> >taken out of the EMERGENCY category.
> >
> >A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4
> >(or 900 MHz) degree sectors.  6) small waterproof enclosures would
> >contain a router and one of each radio.
> >
> >I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that
> >could be used to energize a relay.  Microwave relays are readily
> >available and have acceptable insertion loss.  Would a stripline
> >divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer
> >instead? Passive solutions are always better.  If the antennas were
> >dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered.  Besides
> >redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal.
> >
> >Has anybody done anything like this?  Can't seem to find any on the net.
> >
> >Am I mad?  Mike
> >
> >---
>-
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Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

[RickG]

Ya, I've been doing the same whenever possible. LOL, I dont know if
its Murphy or not but those towers never give me any trouble once the
radio is at ground level! -RickG

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
 wrote:
> How high is the tower this is all on?
>
> If you run the calcs for line loss, even at 5 gig, up to 100' of coax isn't
> horrible much of the time.  I'm putting more and more radios back on the
> ground these days.
>
> LMR 600 or 900 can pay for it's self in a climb or two.
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 6:04 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>
>
>>I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower
>>setup.
>>
>> 1 antenna; two radios.  Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio
>> failed, the other would come on-line.  The replacement climb would be
>> taken out of the EMERGENCY category.
>>
>> A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4
>> (or 900 MHz) degree sectors.  6) small waterproof enclosures would
>> contain a router and one of each radio.
>>
>> I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that
>> could be used to energize a relay.  Microwave relays are readily
>> available and have acceptable insertion loss.  Would a stripline
>> divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer
>> instead? Passive solutions are always better.  If the antennas were
>> dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered.  Besides
>> redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal.
>>
>> Has anybody done anything like this?  Can't seem to find any on the net.
>>
>> Am I mad?  Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

[Chuck Profito]

Or do it your way and add this to the mix, and to switch radios you don't
have to go to the tower.

http://www.dinrelay.com 

this unit saves the trip up the hill.  Small one $125 with auto reboot, 16
port $295

All of our towers have these and a few repeaters. Now with auto reboot on
most of the radio boards, 
it's mostly used to boot routers, switches, or hung boards. 


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:29 PM
To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

Based at least partly on what I've learned on this list:

An enclosure can contain radios from 2 different bands with no issues.

A dual band sector has less wind loading than one of each.

Radios and enclosures have gotten cheaper.

It really wouldn't be any more complicated than having a spare radio 
"on the tower," if implemented properly. If an entire router or power 
supply failed there would be an entirely redundant unit ready to go 
into service.

So there would be no single unit.  If either radio, or either router 
died, the drone would take over.  Each antenna would have a redundant 
radio in a DIFFERENT enclosure.

Mike


At 09:07 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>I think the concept of combining functionality into single units and fault
>tolerant redundancy are mutually exclusive.
>
>I believe more people have had problems with more complicated installs than
>more simple ones vs. failed components on simple installs.  I think a well
>planned combination of both including redundancy where it counts would be
>best IMO
>
>Scott Carullo
>Brevard Wireless
>321-205-1100 x102
>
>
>
>
>From: "Mike" 
>Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:05 PM
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>
>I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower
>setup.
>
>1 antenna; two radios.  Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio
>failed, the other would come on-line.  The replacement climb would be
>taken out of the EMERGENCY category.
>
>A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4
>(or 900 MHz) degree sectors.  6) small waterproof enclosures would
>contain a router and one of each radio.
>
>I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that
>could be used to energize a relay.  Microwave relays are readily
>available and have acceptable insertion loss.  Would a stripline
>divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer
>instead? Passive solutions are always better.  If the antennas were
>dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered.  Besides
>redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal.
>
>Has anybody done anything like this?  Can't seem to find any on the net.
>
>Am I mad?  Mike
>
>---
-
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>---
-
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>---
-
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Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

[Marlon K. Schafer]

How high is the tower this is all on?

If you run the calcs for line loss, even at 5 gig, up to 100' of coax isn't 
horrible much of the time.  I'm putting more and more radios back on the 
ground these days.

LMR 600 or 900 can pay for it's self in a climb or two.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 6:04 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment


>I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower 
>setup.
>
> 1 antenna; two radios.  Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio
> failed, the other would come on-line.  The replacement climb would be
> taken out of the EMERGENCY category.
>
> A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4
> (or 900 MHz) degree sectors.  6) small waterproof enclosures would
> contain a router and one of each radio.
>
> I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that
> could be used to energize a relay.  Microwave relays are readily
> available and have acceptable insertion loss.  Would a stripline
> divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer
> instead? Passive solutions are always better.  If the antennas were
> dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered.  Besides
> redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal.
>
> Has anybody done anything like this?  Can't seem to find any on the net.
>
> Am I mad?  Mike
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

[Mike]

Based at least partly on what I've learned on this list:

An enclosure can contain radios from 2 different bands with no issues.

A dual band sector has less wind loading than one of each.

Radios and enclosures have gotten cheaper.

It really wouldn't be any more complicated than having a spare radio 
"on the tower," if implemented properly. If an entire router or power 
supply failed there would be an entirely redundant unit ready to go 
into service.

So there would be no single unit.  If either radio, or either router 
died, the drone would take over.  Each antenna would have a redundant 
radio in a DIFFERENT enclosure.

Mike


At 09:07 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>I think the concept of combining functionality into single units and fault
>tolerant redundancy are mutually exclusive.
>
>I believe more people have had problems with more complicated installs than
>more simple ones vs. failed components on simple installs.  I think a well
>planned combination of both including redundancy where it counts would be
>best IMO
>
>Scott Carullo
>Brevard Wireless
>321-205-1100 x102
>
>
>
>
>From: "Mike" 
>Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:05 PM
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
>
>I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower
>setup.
>
>1 antenna; two radios.  Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio
>failed, the other would come on-line.  The replacement climb would be
>taken out of the EMERGENCY category.
>
>A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4
>(or 900 MHz) degree sectors.  6) small waterproof enclosures would
>contain a router and one of each radio.
>
>I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that
>could be used to energize a relay.  Microwave relays are readily
>available and have acceptable insertion loss.  Would a stripline
>divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer
>instead? Passive solutions are always better.  If the antennas were
>dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered.  Besides
>redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal.
>
>Has anybody done anything like this?  Can't seem to find any on the net.
>
>Am I mad?  Mike
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

[RickG]

And on that note, why not contact the solar panel manufacturer? -RickG

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 5:03 PM, jp  wrote:
> Ask your local autobody folks. Any sort of chemical paint remover is probably 
> fine as
> long as you don't let it seep or run too much. The solar panels are simply 
> covered with
> safety glass.
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 02:51:07PM -0600, Randy Cosby wrote:
>> I have a couple solar panels on a water tank.  A few months ago the
>> water company painted the tank, and obviously didn't cover our panels
>> the whole time, so there is a very thin layer of paint on them.
>>
>> Not sure what kind of paint it is, but I can scratch it off with my
>> fingernails.  I don't have enough fingernails to do all the panels
>> though
>>
>> Any suggestions on what to use to take that off without damaging the
>> solar panels?  I'm sure they'll work better without brown specs all over
>> them.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Randy Cosby
>> Vice President
>> InfoWest, Inc
>>
>> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>>
>> http://www.infowest.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>>
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>>
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> --
> /*
> Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
>    KB1IOJ        |   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting
>  http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Maine    http://www.midcoast.com/
> */
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Outdoor UPS

[Chuck Profito]

Is there an enclosure? 
Are there Costco's in your area?
Triplite 1000 VA / 500 watt $99.95
We put these on our repeaters with a additional battery in our enclosure. 
Default setting is 'ON'
We have deployed about 80-100 of these, only had one failure.
We are in central California, so mild winters, 100 -105 summers.
YMMV

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Outdoor UPS

Looking for recommendations on an Outdoor UPS, not concerned about a 
long run time, just to handle the occasional blips. Form factor and 
mounting considerations are one of the main concerns with this install. 
Will be fed by AC power, but it can distribute as a single AC or DC 
feed, something that can do 100-250 watts would probably be fine.

Regards
Michael Baird




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Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

[Scott Carullo]

I think the concept of combining functionality into single units and fault 
tolerant redundancy are mutually exclusive.

I believe more people have had problems with more complicated installs than 
more simple ones vs. failed components on simple installs.  I think a well 
planned combination of both including redundancy where it counts would be 
best IMO

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102




From: "Mike" 
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:05 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower 
setup.

1 antenna; two radios.  Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio 
failed, the other would come on-line.  The replacement climb would be 
taken out of the EMERGENCY category.

A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4 
(or 900 MHz) degree sectors.  6) small waterproof enclosures would 
contain a router and one of each radio.

I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that 
could be used to energize a relay.  Microwave relays are readily 
available and have acceptable insertion loss.  Would a stripline 
divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer 
instead? Passive solutions are always better.  If the antennas were 
dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered.  Besides 
redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal.

Has anybody done anything like this?  Can't seem to find any on the net.

Am I mad?  Mike



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[WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

[Mike]

I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower setup.

1 antenna; two radios.  Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio 
failed, the other would come on-line.  The replacement climb would be 
taken out of the EMERGENCY category.

A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4 
(or 900 MHz) degree sectors.  6) small waterproof enclosures would 
contain a router and one of each radio.

I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that 
could be used to energize a relay.  Microwave relays are readily 
available and have acceptable insertion loss.  Would a stripline 
divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer 
instead? Passive solutions are always better.  If the antennas were 
dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered.  Besides 
redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal.

Has anybody done anything like this?  Can't seem to find any on the net.

Am I mad?  Mike





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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[Mike]

I nosed around the Internet looking at the various designs of 
stripline dividers.  It is almost trivial to make one.  But the more 
I think about it, if I am going to coordinate a climb to hang a pair 
of antennae, I'd probably just carry two radios up and run them 
separate and sectorized.

If both feeds are exactly the same, half the power would go to 
each.  Receive should be symmetrical, and only slightly attenuated 
from a single antenna deployment.  But, a point of failure, and may 
be false economy.

Mike

At 02:13 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>There are several manufacturers like IF Engineering, Meca, RF Lamda, and
>such of quality combiner/dividers, but pretty much any RF Design group
>that manufactures quality hybrid stripline dividers would probably work.
>These are typically better than using something like a "T" to
>split/combine signals. What you want is something with low insertion
>loss and at least 20 dB of isolation between ports.
>
>Cameron
>
>
>Mike wrote:
> > Cameron:
> >
> > Your prowess as an antenna designer is well known.  Define a decent
> > splitter, and where one might find one.  I think that solution would
> > be usable to a wide group on this list.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > At 12:05 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
> >
> >> That is not really an omni. It is three sectors meant to be fed with
> >> three different radios. That being said, and in regard to my last post,
> >> a back to back array with a couple of 90's fed correctly would yield a
> >> pretty nice "omni" pattern that you could get close to 16 dB. Two 18 dB
> >> sectors with a decent splitter would yield a 15 dB omni. It would just
> >> be pretty "big" as far as antennas go.
> >>
> >> Cameron
> >>
> >> Michael Baird wrote:
> >>
> >>> What about sectorized omni arrays, any of those out there at 5.8?
> >>>
> >>> An example would be
> >>> http://www.netkrom.com/prod_ant_5.1-5.8ghz_vpol_sector_omni.html
> >>>
> >>> Just can't find anybody who sells it to get an idea on pricing.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Michael Baird
> >>>
> >>>
>  You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do, I'd call BS.
>  The vertical beamwidth on an 16dB omni antenna at almost any frequency
>  will be so flat that the antenna would be practically useless. We make a
>  9-10dB 5.7-5.8 H-pol omni for ourselves, but very few as we just don't
>  use that many. If you need H-pol, hit me offlist. Otherwise, there are
>  plenty of good 5 GHz 9 and 10 dB V-pol omni's commercially available.
> 
>  Cameron
> 
>  Michael Baird wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Tom,
> >
> > This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at
> > least 100ft+.
> >
> > Regards
> > Michael Baird
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.
> >>
> >> Tom DeReggi
> >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> >>
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Michael Baird" 
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
> >> Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, 
> looking for some
> >>> recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Michael Baird
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> 
> 
> >>
> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>>
> >>>
> >> 
> 
> >>
> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>>
> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> >>>
> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> >>> Checked by AVG.
> >>> Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date:
> >>> 5/15/2009 6:16 AM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> 
> 
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >> 
> 
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >> 
> 
> >>
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> >
>

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

[Jerry Richardson]

It's likely water base in which warm soapy water and a squeeqee will suffice. 
Don't use anything abrasive.

If it's oil base, it may still come off with warm soapy water as it overspray 
tends to be partially dry by the time it lands.

Try not to scrape as it leaves small scratches that catch pollen and dust.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

I have a couple solar panels on a water tank.  A few months ago the 
water company painted the tank, and obviously didn't cover our panels 
the whole time, so there is a very thin layer of paint on them.

Not sure what kind of paint it is, but I can scratch it off with my 
fingernails.  I don't have enough fingernails to do all the panels 
though

Any suggestions on what to use to take that off without damaging the 
solar panels?  I'm sure they'll work better without brown specs all over 
them.


-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/





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Re: [WISPA] TV interfering with 5.8GHz?

[Adam Greene]

Guys, thanks for the brainstorm ideas.

Interference is to us.

And yes, it makes sense that since this is not a TV station building, 
these antennas are probably receive only. There is a huge omni antenna 
with "490" printed on the side, which is where we took the idea of 
490MHz from, but it's only a guess.

We're using Teldor shielded black uv-protected cat5e with ground wire. 
No Mikrotiks around (tho if the 5.8 don't work, we may be puttin in some 
5.3 gear!!)



On 10/29/2009 6:21 PM, jp wrote:
> Is the interference to you or to the TV signal? 
>
> What is grounded and where? Perhaps you are causing a ground loop by doing 
> grounding 
> differently than they did or something?
>
> If to the TV signal ? Are you using shielded cat5e cabling and grounding an 
> end of the 
> shield drain wire?
>
> Any other stuff installed with it, like mikrotiks or switches or anything?
>
> If to you, TV antennas on roofs don't transmit (currently). Any cell phone 
> tower 
> backhauls nearby or 5.8 phones? Perhaps the tv antennas are just a scapegoat.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 06:14:52PM -0400, Adam Greene wrote:
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just installed a 5.8GHz Alvarion VL on a roof with lots of TV antennas. 
>> Interference was horrible. We were not expecting that, as the main TV 
>> antenna culprit says "490" on the side -- I assume 490MHz.
>>
>> My obscure reasoning tells me that if there were a really strong signal 
>> on 483.33MHz, it might create a harmonic on 5.8GHz, which is 12 x 483.33.
>>
>> Has anyone seen interference of this type before? Do you think changing 
>> to horizontal polarization would help? Anything else we could do to 
>> mitigate the interference (besides putting up a lead barrier) :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adam
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] TV interfering with 5.8GHz?

[jp]

Is the interference to you or to the TV signal? 

What is grounded and where? Perhaps you are causing a ground loop by doing 
grounding 
differently than they did or something?

If to the TV signal ? Are you using shielded cat5e cabling and grounding an end 
of the 
shield drain wire?

Any other stuff installed with it, like mikrotiks or switches or anything?

If to you, TV antennas on roofs don't transmit (currently). Any cell phone 
tower 
backhauls nearby or 5.8 phones? Perhaps the tv antennas are just a scapegoat.


On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 06:14:52PM -0400, Adam Greene wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Just installed a 5.8GHz Alvarion VL on a roof with lots of TV antennas. 
> Interference was horrible. We were not expecting that, as the main TV 
> antenna culprit says "490" on the side -- I assume 490MHz.
> 
> My obscure reasoning tells me that if there were a really strong signal 
> on 483.33MHz, it might create a harmonic on 5.8GHz, which is 12 x 483.33.
> 
> Has anyone seen interference of this type before? Do you think changing 
> to horizontal polarization would help? Anything else we could do to 
> mitigate the interference (besides putting up a lead barrier) :)
> 
> Thanks,
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
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-- 
/*
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 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
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Re: [WISPA] TV interfering with 5.8GHz?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Are these the TV transmitters?  As in on the TV station or a community 
repeater site?

If so, this could just be too much general RF for the system to deal with.

I've also had trouble on the ethernet side of things at an FM radio station.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Greene" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 3:14 PM
Subject: [WISPA] TV interfering with 5.8GHz?


> Hi,
>
> Just installed a 5.8GHz Alvarion VL on a roof with lots of TV antennas.
> Interference was horrible. We were not expecting that, as the main TV
> antenna culprit says "490" on the side -- I assume 490MHz.
>
> My obscure reasoning tells me that if there were a really strong signal
> on 483.33MHz, it might create a harmonic on 5.8GHz, which is 12 x 483.33.
>
> Has anyone seen interference of this type before? Do you think changing
> to horizontal polarization would help? Anything else we could do to
> mitigate the interference (besides putting up a lead barrier) :)
>
> Thanks,
> Adam
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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[WISPA] TV interfering with 5.8GHz?

[Adam Greene]

Hi,

Just installed a 5.8GHz Alvarion VL on a roof with lots of TV antennas. 
Interference was horrible. We were not expecting that, as the main TV 
antenna culprit says "490" on the side -- I assume 490MHz.

My obscure reasoning tells me that if there were a really strong signal 
on 483.33MHz, it might create a harmonic on 5.8GHz, which is 12 x 483.33.

Has anyone seen interference of this type before? Do you think changing 
to horizontal polarization would help? Anything else we could do to 
mitigate the interference (besides putting up a lead barrier) :)

Thanks,
Adam



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Re: [WISPA] cellular repeater/bidirectional amps

[Blake Bowers]

It is FCC approved insofar as the technical standards.

Legality of use belongs with the end user - and the FCC has
clearly stated that the cell phone repeaters must be coordinated
with the carriers whose signals are being repeated, otherwise their
use is illegal.

An example of the FCC approval, I believe it was midland that was
recently taken to fine because of scrambling on some GMRS/FRS
radios.   Illegal, and midland never argued that point.

Those radios met the fcc approval for two way radios.

Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "Bret Clark" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] cellular repeater/bidirectional amps


> If you are using a repeater that is FCC approved then I don't see why the 
> FCC would get involved...Cell phone repeaters are legal to use
>
> Scottie Arnett wrote:
> I maybe late to chime in, but when I asked about something similar, I 
> heard a resounding problem with not communicating with the cell provider 
> beforehand. It seems that if you put a high-end(not a small one like you 
> and I have) repeater in before talking to the cell provider, you MAY be 
> talking to the FCC.
>
> Scottie
>




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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

[Marlon K. Schafer]

How about a razor knife?  We actually use one of them to clean our fancy 
glass top cook stove.  Doesn't seem to scratch it at all.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Randy Cosby" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:51 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels


>I have a couple solar panels on a water tank.  A few months ago the
> water company painted the tank, and obviously didn't cover our panels
> the whole time, so there is a very thin layer of paint on them.
>
> Not sure what kind of paint it is, but I can scratch it off with my
> fingernails.  I don't have enough fingernails to do all the panels
> though
>
> Any suggestions on what to use to take that off without damaging the
> solar panels?  I'm sure they'll work better without brown specs all over
> them.
>
>
> -- 
> Randy Cosby
> Vice President
> InfoWest, Inc
>
> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>
> http://www.infowest.com/
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] Long 5Ghz link over water

[Jeremy Parr]

2009/10/28 Jeremy Parr :
> I have a 23 mile link completely over water that I cannot get stable.
> One end is approx 200ft AGL, 220ft ASL, the other end is 50' AGL, 90'
> ASL. Antennas are V-Pol 29dbi grids, radios are R5H cards. I have
> tried the link at both 5.2, and 5.8, but it still fluctuates
> dramatically. When the antennas were installed and configured for a
> 5Mhz channel, I was able to aim them to -55, but still they go down
> during parts of the day. I have a second antenna hung on the 200ft
> end, at about 185', connected to a second R5H set up for H-Pol which I
> am going to light up as soon as I get the other end mounted H-Pol. Any
> other suggestions for getting this stable? I also notice some
> strangeness when doing bandwidth tests. I can get a steady 8mbps
> downstream from the 200ft end to the 50' end, but from the 50' end to
> the 200ft end, the transfer starts at about 6mbps, then slowly drops
> down to 0, and the client radio (the 50' end) drops. My assumption is
> multipath reflections off of the water at the lower end, but I cannot
> be sure. The water is tidal, with as much as a 3' change from low to
> high, and is connected to the ocean, so there can be considerable chop
> and wave action on the surface.
>

I just swapped this link to H-Pol, and it needs to be watched
overnight, but looks good so far. Signal fluctuating between -59 and
-66 on a 20mhz channel, CCQ at 90/90 or better. After flipping to
H-Pol, the channel was still set to 5Mhz, and the same fast start and
slowdown was occurring, the radio would disassociate with poll
timeouts and too many retransmissions. Switching to a 20mhz channel
fixed this.

status: running
  duration: 3m59s
tx-current: 15.7Mbps
  tx-10-second-average: 18.0Mbps
  tx-total-average: 17.4Mbps
rx-current: 16.3Mbps
  rx-10-second-average: 17.2Mbps
  rx-total-average: 17.2Mbps
  lost-packets: 60
   random-data: no
 direction: both
   tx-size: 1500
   rx-size: 1500



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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

[Greg]

An automotive plastic snow/ice  scraper might be a good choice - less
chance of damaging the panels.

On 10/29/09, jp  wrote:
> Ask your local autobody folks. Any sort of chemical paint remover is
> probably fine as
> long as you don't let it seep or run too much. The solar panels are simply
> covered with
> safety glass.
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 02:51:07PM -0600, Randy Cosby wrote:
>> I have a couple solar panels on a water tank.  A few months ago the
>> water company painted the tank, and obviously didn't cover our panels
>> the whole time, so there is a very thin layer of paint on them.
>>
>> Not sure what kind of paint it is, but I can scratch it off with my
>> fingernails.  I don't have enough fingernails to do all the panels
>> though
>>
>> Any suggestions on what to use to take that off without damaging the
>> solar panels?  I'm sure they'll work better without brown specs all over
>> them.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Randy Cosby
>> Vice President
>> InfoWest, Inc
>>
>> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>>
>> http://www.infowest.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
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>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> --
> /*
> Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
> KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting
>  http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
> */
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

[jp]

Ask your local autobody folks. Any sort of chemical paint remover is probably 
fine as 
long as you don't let it seep or run too much. The solar panels are simply 
covered with 
safety glass.

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 02:51:07PM -0600, Randy Cosby wrote:
> I have a couple solar panels on a water tank.  A few months ago the 
> water company painted the tank, and obviously didn't cover our panels 
> the whole time, so there is a very thin layer of paint on them.
> 
> Not sure what kind of paint it is, but I can scratch it off with my 
> fingernails.  I don't have enough fingernails to do all the panels 
> though
> 
> Any suggestions on what to use to take that off without damaging the 
> solar panels?  I'm sure they'll work better without brown specs all over 
> them.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Randy Cosby
> Vice President
> InfoWest, Inc
> 
> 435-674-0165 x 2010
> 
> http://www.infowest.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

[Mike]

Are the tops smooth glass?  Just use a single edged razor held at a 
shallow angle and some elbow grease.

Mike

At 03:51 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>I have a couple solar panels on a water tank.  A few months ago the
>water company painted the tank, and obviously didn't cover our panels
>the whole time, so there is a very thin layer of paint on them.
>
>Not sure what kind of paint it is, but I can scratch it off with my
>fingernails.  I don't have enough fingernails to do all the panels
>though
>
>Any suggestions on what to use to take that off without damaging the
>solar panels?  I'm sure they'll work better without brown specs all over
>them.
>
>
>--
>Randy Cosby
>Vice President
>InfoWest, Inc
>
>435-674-0165 x 2010
>
>http://www.infowest.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

[Dennis Burgess]

Plastic ice scraper! :) 

---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Author of "Learn RouterOS"


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 3:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

I have a couple solar panels on a water tank.  A few months ago the
water company painted the tank, and obviously didn't cover our panels
the whole time, so there is a very thin layer of paint on them.

Not sure what kind of paint it is, but I can scratch it off with my
fingernails.  I don't have enough fingernails to do all the panels
though

Any suggestions on what to use to take that off without damaging the
solar panels?  I'm sure they'll work better without brown specs all over
them.


--
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/






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[WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

[Randy Cosby]

I have a couple solar panels on a water tank.  A few months ago the 
water company painted the tank, and obviously didn't cover our panels 
the whole time, so there is a very thin layer of paint on them.

Not sure what kind of paint it is, but I can scratch it off with my 
fingernails.  I don't have enough fingernails to do all the panels 
though

Any suggestions on what to use to take that off without damaging the 
solar panels?  I'm sure they'll work better without brown specs all over 
them.


-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/





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Re: [WISPA] Outdoor UPS

[Jayson Baker]

APC and Cyberpower makes some.  12V or 48V output.  Outdoor mounted.  AC
power input.
We used them for a FTTH project once.

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Scott Parsons  wrote:

> Michael,
> These systems are powered by POE.
> Not sure if that works for you.
> 
>
> Scott
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:13 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Outdoor UPS
>
> Looking for recommendations on an Outdoor UPS, not concerned about a
> long run time, just to handle the occasional blips. Form factor and
> mounting considerations are one of the main concerns with this install.
> Will be fed by AC power, but it can distribute as a single AC or DC
> feed, something that can do 100-250 watts would probably be fine.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Outdoor UPS

[Scott Parsons]

Michael,
These systems are powered by POE.
Not sure if that works for you.


Scott

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Outdoor UPS

Looking for recommendations on an Outdoor UPS, not concerned about a 
long run time, just to handle the occasional blips. Form factor and 
mounting considerations are one of the main concerns with this install. 
Will be fed by AC power, but it can distribute as a single AC or DC 
feed, something that can do 100-250 watts would probably be fine.

Regards
Michael Baird




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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[ccrum]

There are several manufacturers like IF Engineering, Meca, RF Lamda, and 
such of quality combiner/dividers, but pretty much any RF Design group 
that manufactures quality hybrid stripline dividers would probably work. 
These are typically better than using something like a "T" to 
split/combine signals. What you want is something with low insertion 
loss and at least 20 dB of isolation between ports.

Cameron


Mike wrote:
> Cameron:
>
> Your prowess as an antenna designer is well known.  Define a decent 
> splitter, and where one might find one.  I think that solution would 
> be usable to a wide group on this list.
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 12:05 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>   
>> That is not really an omni. It is three sectors meant to be fed with
>> three different radios. That being said, and in regard to my last post,
>> a back to back array with a couple of 90's fed correctly would yield a
>> pretty nice "omni" pattern that you could get close to 16 dB. Two 18 dB
>> sectors with a decent splitter would yield a 15 dB omni. It would just
>> be pretty "big" as far as antennas go.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>> 
>>> What about sectorized omni arrays, any of those out there at 5.8?
>>>
>>> An example would be
>>> http://www.netkrom.com/prod_ant_5.1-5.8ghz_vpol_sector_omni.html
>>>
>>> Just can't find anybody who sells it to get an idea on pricing.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>   
 You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do, I'd call BS.
 The vertical beamwidth on an 16dB omni antenna at almost any frequency
 will be so flat that the antenna would be practically useless. We make a
 9-10dB 5.7-5.8 H-pol omni for ourselves, but very few as we just don't
 use that many. If you need H-pol, hit me offlist. Otherwise, there are
 plenty of good 5 GHz 9 and 10 dB V-pol omni's commercially available.

 Cameron

 Michael Baird wrote:


 
> Tom,
>
> This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at
> least 100ft+.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
>
>   
>> I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Michael Baird" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>> I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
>>> recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
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[WISPA] Outdoor UPS

[Michael Baird]

Looking for recommendations on an Outdoor UPS, not concerned about a 
long run time, just to handle the occasional blips. Form factor and 
mounting considerations are one of the main concerns with this install. 
Will be fed by AC power, but it can distribute as a single AC or DC 
feed, something that can do 100-250 watts would probably be fine.

Regards
Michael Baird



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Re: [WISPA] WISPCON?

[Rick Kunze]

Didn't know this list worked.  I still have it in my filters!

Rk

On 9/30/2009 10:41 AM, Larry Yunker wrote:
> Last I had heard, Michael decided that due to the state of the economy,
> October 2009 was probably not the right time to hold another conference.  I
> know he has interest in scheduling another conference, but the timing must
> be right to draw sufficient interest&  demand.
>
> Regards,
> Larry Yunker
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jayson Baker
> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:07 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] WISPCON?
>
> I take it that it's not actually happening "OCTOBER 2009" like the site
> says?
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

[Butch Evans]

On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 13:06 -0500, Butch Evans wrote: 
> So, the short answer is:  Keep the number of interfaces around (or
> below) 100 or so.

I should add that I DO have customers who have well over 150 ROUTERS
with multiple interfaces in a single area.  This limit is not a "hard
limit".  The other reality is that when you reach that number of
routers, it is very likely that a network should be relatively easy to
reconfigure into multiple areas.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

[Butch Evans]

On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 09:44 -0600, Kevin Neal wrote: 
> I'm pretty sure the limit is just CPU/Memory.  We currently 112
> routing entries in one of our networks, this is on a network with 24
> OSPF routers.

Number of routes is not that much of a problem.  I have one customer
with about 8k OSPF routes (he does pppoe).  You can do BGP with nearly
300K routes without problems.  

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

[Butch Evans]

On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 10:33 -0500, Jory Privett wrote: 
> For all of you routing gurus out there,   On MikroTiks version,  
> or any other brand,  of OSPF what is the maximum number of routes 
> or routers in a single OSPF Area?  Is this only limitied by CPU/Memory 
> or is there something else that dictates it?

While there may be an actual maximum number, I cannot find that in the
standard.  In practice, however, I have found that keeping the number of
interfaces in an area under 100 to be helpful.  Realistically, that is a
very large number.  Also, it is important to note the difference between
"interfaces" and "routers" in OSPF networks.  An "OSPF Router" (which
can be viewed in Mikrotik in the GUI) is a device that is participating
in the OSPF network on any interface.  An "OSPF interface" is what gets
counted as a "hop" and is, therefore, part of the path cost
calculation.  

So, the short answer is:  Keep the number of interfaces around (or
below) 100 or so.

I have seen SOME people who recommend under 200 ROUTERS per AS.  I have
not run into any sorts of limitations in that regard, but there are only
a few networks that I work on that have enough routers to even reach
that number.  :-)

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[Mike]

Cameron:

Your prowess as an antenna designer is well known.  Define a decent 
splitter, and where one might find one.  I think that solution would 
be usable to a wide group on this list.

Mike


At 12:05 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>That is not really an omni. It is three sectors meant to be fed with
>three different radios. That being said, and in regard to my last post,
>a back to back array with a couple of 90's fed correctly would yield a
>pretty nice "omni" pattern that you could get close to 16 dB. Two 18 dB
>sectors with a decent splitter would yield a 15 dB omni. It would just
>be pretty "big" as far as antennas go.
>
>Cameron
>
>Michael Baird wrote:
> > What about sectorized omni arrays, any of those out there at 5.8?
> >
> > An example would be
> > http://www.netkrom.com/prod_ant_5.1-5.8ghz_vpol_sector_omni.html
> >
> > Just can't find anybody who sells it to get an idea on pricing.
> >
> > Regards
> > Michael Baird
> >
> >> You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do, I'd call BS.
> >> The vertical beamwidth on an 16dB omni antenna at almost any frequency
> >> will be so flat that the antenna would be practically useless. We make a
> >> 9-10dB 5.7-5.8 H-pol omni for ourselves, but very few as we just don't
> >> use that many. If you need H-pol, hit me offlist. Otherwise, there are
> >> plenty of good 5 GHz 9 and 10 dB V-pol omni's commercially available.
> >>
> >> Cameron
> >>
> >> Michael Baird wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Tom,
> >>>
> >>> This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at
> >>> least 100ft+.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Michael Baird
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.
> 
>  Tom DeReggi
>  RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
>  - Original Message -
>  From: "Michael Baird" 
>  To: "WISPA General List" 
>  Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
>  Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
> > recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
> >
> > Regards
> > Michael Baird
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date:
> > 5/15/2009 6:16 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>  
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Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Using StarOS we have about 480 subnet routes propagating throughout our 
network.   This represents approximately 220 routed devices.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

Dennis Burgess wrote:
> I think a good OSPF single area would be around 75 routers.  Over that
> you get quite a bit of traffic.  Not saying that this is a hard limit,
> just a rule of thumb.  
>
> ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member
> Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
> LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
> Author of "Learn RouterOS"
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jory Privett
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:33 AM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] OSPF maximums
>
> For all of you routing gurus out there,   On MikroTiks version,  or any
> other brand,  of OSPF what is the maximum number of routes or routers in
> a single OSPF Area?  Is this only limitied by CPU/Memory or is there
> something else that dictates it?
>
>
> Jory
>
>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[Mac Dearman]

It "could" be a nightmare, but with appropriate channels being selected - -
it could be ok. IMHO - this is no worse than using multiple radios in a
single enclosure in the same frequency. I guess it could be worse if you
were using multiple radios in a single enclosure AND using an antenna like
this :-)   That would be shooting yourself in both feet :-)

All that smart ass comment just to admit - - - IMHO you are correct in your
assessment of the situation.


Mac




> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeremy Parr
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:21 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
> 
> 2009/10/29 Michael Baird :
> > What about sectorized omni arrays, any of those out there at 5.8?
> >
> > An example would be
> > http://www.netkrom.com/prod_ant_5.1-5.8ghz_vpol_sector_omni.html
> >
> > Just can't find anybody who sells it to get an idea on pricing.
> 
> I would be very concerned about antenna isolation with that. Using it
> with a radio that does not support transmit sync would be a nightmare.
> 
> 
> ---
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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[3-dB Networks]

Actually I think this antenna would work perfect for what he wants

http://www.mtiwe.com/uploads/product/239.pdf

And I doubt that spec sheet is BS (but then again I don't build antennas
myself :-)

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of ccrum
>Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:48 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
>
>You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do, I'd call BS.
>The vertical beamwidth on an 16dB omni antenna at almost any frequency
>will be so flat that the antenna would be practically useless. We make a
>9-10dB 5.7-5.8 H-pol omni for ourselves, but very few as we just don't
>use that many. If you need H-pol, hit me offlist. Otherwise, there are
>plenty of good 5 GHz 9 and 10 dB V-pol omni's commercially available.
>
>Cameron
>
>Michael Baird wrote:
>> Tom,
>>
>> This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at
>> least 100ft+.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>> I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Michael Baird" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
 I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for
>some
 recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.

 Regards
 Michael Baird


 
>
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 --
 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
 Checked by AVG.
 Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date:
 5/15/2009 6:16 AM




>>>
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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[ccrum]

That is not really an omni. It is three sectors meant to be fed with 
three different radios. That being said, and in regard to my last post, 
a back to back array with a couple of 90's fed correctly would yield a 
pretty nice "omni" pattern that you could get close to 16 dB. Two 18 dB 
sectors with a decent splitter would yield a 15 dB omni. It would just 
be pretty "big" as far as antennas go.

Cameron

Michael Baird wrote:
> What about sectorized omni arrays, any of those out there at 5.8?
>
> An example would be 
> http://www.netkrom.com/prod_ant_5.1-5.8ghz_vpol_sector_omni.html
>
> Just can't find anybody who sells it to get an idea on pricing.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>   
>> You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do, I'd call BS. 
>> The vertical beamwidth on an 16dB omni antenna at almost any frequency 
>> will be so flat that the antenna would be practically useless. We make a 
>> 9-10dB 5.7-5.8 H-pol omni for ourselves, but very few as we just don't 
>> use that many. If you need H-pol, hit me offlist. Otherwise, there are 
>> plenty of good 5 GHz 9 and 10 dB V-pol omni's commercially available.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> Tom,
>>>
>>> This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at 
>>> least 100ft+.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
 I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: "Michael Baird" 
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni


   
 
   
 
> I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
> recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[Jeremy Parr]

2009/10/29 Michael Baird :
> What about sectorized omni arrays, any of those out there at 5.8?
>
> An example would be
> http://www.netkrom.com/prod_ant_5.1-5.8ghz_vpol_sector_omni.html
>
> Just can't find anybody who sells it to get an idea on pricing.

I would be very concerned about antenna isolation with that. Using it
with a radio that does not support transmit sync would be a nightmare.



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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[Michael Baird]

What about sectorized omni arrays, any of those out there at 5.8?

An example would be 
http://www.netkrom.com/prod_ant_5.1-5.8ghz_vpol_sector_omni.html

Just can't find anybody who sells it to get an idea on pricing.

Regards
Michael Baird
> You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do, I'd call BS. 
> The vertical beamwidth on an 16dB omni antenna at almost any frequency 
> will be so flat that the antenna would be practically useless. We make a 
> 9-10dB 5.7-5.8 H-pol omni for ourselves, but very few as we just don't 
> use that many. If you need H-pol, hit me offlist. Otherwise, there are 
> plenty of good 5 GHz 9 and 10 dB V-pol omni's commercially available.
>
> Cameron
>
> Michael Baird wrote:
>   
>> Tom,
>>
>> This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at 
>> least 100ft+.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>   
>> 
>>> I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Michael Baird" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
 I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
 recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.

 Regards
 Michael Baird


 
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 Checked by AVG.
 Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 
 5/15/2009 6:16 AM


 
   
 
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Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

[Dennis Burgess]

I think a good OSPF single area would be around 75 routers.  Over that
you get quite a bit of traffic.  Not saying that this is a hard limit,
just a rule of thumb.  

---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Author of "Learn RouterOS"


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jory Privett
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:33 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

For all of you routing gurus out there,   On MikroTiks version,  or any
other brand,  of OSPF what is the maximum number of routes or routers in
a single OSPF Area?  Is this only limitied by CPU/Memory or is there
something else that dictates it?


Jory




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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[ccrum]

You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do, I'd call BS. 
The vertical beamwidth on an 16dB omni antenna at almost any frequency 
will be so flat that the antenna would be practically useless. We make a 
9-10dB 5.7-5.8 H-pol omni for ourselves, but very few as we just don't 
use that many. If you need H-pol, hit me offlist. Otherwise, there are 
plenty of good 5 GHz 9 and 10 dB V-pol omni's commercially available.

Cameron

Michael Baird wrote:
> Tom,
>
> This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at 
> least 100ft+.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>   
>> I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Michael Baird" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
>>
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
>>> recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 
>>> 5/15/2009 6:16 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>   
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Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

[Kevin Neal]

I'm pretty sure the limit is just CPU/Memory.  We currently 112
routing entries in one of our networks, this is on a network with 24
OSPF routers.

-Kevin


On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Jory Privett  wrote:
> For all of you routing gurus out there,   On MikroTiks version,  or any other 
> brand,  of OSPF what is the maximum number of routes or routers in a single 
> OSPF Area?  Is this only limitied by CPU/Memory or is there something else 
> that dictates it?
>
>
> Jory
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

[Nick Olsen]

If I understand correctly, There is no limit. But I vaguely remember 
something about OSPF being unstable with 500+ routers. As you start to get 
to much crosstalk overhead.
If its a big area you would need to do like OSPF and BGP I don't remember 
how it went, something like transit routes with ospf and advertise the 
customer space with bgp...

Nick Olsen
Brevard Wireless
(321) 205-1100 x106




From: "Jory Privett" 
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:33 AM
To: "wireless@wispa.org" 
Subject: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

For all of you routing gurus out there,   On MikroTiks version,  or any 
other brand,  of OSPF what is the maximum number of routes or routers in a 
single OSPF Area?  Is this only limitied by CPU/Memory or is there 
something else that dictates it?

Jory



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Re: [WISPA] Time Running Out for Trade Show Survey

[Matt Jenkins]

I meant there wasn't a big text area at the bottom where I could type up 
additional comments.

Forbes Mercy wrote:
> Thanks for the comment but you are incorrect, there is a field for your 
> comments on many of the questions, specifically the one you talked about.
> 
>  
> 
> I took the survey, however it did not allow me to add in other comments. So:
> 
> The biggest problem I have with most of these Trade shows is that its a
> bunch of sales/marketing guys who have no actual idea how the product
> works and cannot answer in depth technical questions. I can get all of
> the sales and marketing information that they present on the website or
> from talking to my usual vendors. What I want is a Product Engineering
> Show where engineers come and demonstrate their products and I can see
> actual comparisons of performance, ask detailed questions, etc.
> 
> For example: I want to have talks from engineers who can answer
> questions. I want to have talks by real operators on how they implement
> OSPF to redistribute BGP across their networks. I want to hear talks
> from people that combine Motorola Canopy, Ubiquiti, Ligowave, Mikrotik,
> and Netsys to create innovative solutions for providing data coverage.
> All should be able to show examples.
> 
> Just my 2 cents...
> 
> - Matt
> 
> Forbes Mercy wrote:
>> REMINDER TO PROVIDE INPUT
>>
>> WISPA is researching the possibility of putting on a Trade Show this spring. 
>>  We put up a survey last week for you to answer basic questions as to what 
>> you would like to see in this show.  As of Tuesday we had about 40 
>> responses, far below the 300+ members and many more non-members who 
>> subscribe to this list.  We are leaving the survey up until Friday evening 
>> so members have seven days to fill out this brief survey.  If you have not 
>> filled out the survey please go to:  
>> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=wsWAhIYE3XfDaKLojwMeNQ_3d_3d
>>
>> Also a list serve has been set up specifically for the organization of the 
>> trade show, you can subscribe to this list by going to:
>>
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wispashow 
>> 
>>
>> One more reminder on Friday then your chance for helping us plan this is 
>> done.  Thanks for your time.
>>
>> Forbes Mercy
>>
>> WISPA - Promotions Committee Chair
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Time Running Out for Trade Show Survey

[Matt Jenkins]

I was just giving examples. I was not saying show only those vendors 
equipment, but trying to convey that having discussions that compare and 
contract types of hardware like routers, or layer 3 switches, etc. Or 
maybe a discussion that shows to to create effective routing solutions 
showing examples using equipment like image stream, cisco, juniper, 
'tik, dell, zyxel, etc. People can show their examples and why they used 
them.

Chuck Profito wrote:
> You mean like Image stream ?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt Jenkins
> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:29 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Time Running Out for Trade Show Survey
> 
> I took the survey, however it did not allow me to add in other comments. So:
> 
> The biggest problem I have with most of these Trade shows is that its a 
> bunch of sales/marketing guys who have no actual idea how the product 
> works and cannot answer in depth technical questions. I can get all of 
> the sales and marketing information that they present on the website or 
> from talking to my usual vendors. What I want is a Product Engineering 
> Show where engineers come and demonstrate their products and I can see 
> actual comparisons of performance, ask detailed questions, etc.
> 
> For example: I want to have talks from engineers who can answer 
> questions. I want to have talks by real operators on how they implement 
> OSPF to redistribute BGP across their networks. I want to hear talks 
> from people that combine Motorola Canopy, Ubiquiti, Ligowave, Mikrotik, 
> and Netsys to create innovative solutions for providing data coverage. 
> All should be able to show examples.
> 
> Just my 2 cents...
> 
> - Matt
> 
> Forbes Mercy wrote:
>> REMINDER TO PROVIDE INPUT
>>
>> WISPA is researching the possibility of putting on a Trade Show this
> spring.  We put up a survey last week for you to answer basic questions as
> to what you would like to see in this show.  As of Tuesday we had about 40
> responses, far below the 300+ members and many more non-members who
> subscribe to this list.  We are leaving the survey up until Friday evening
> so members have seven days to fill out this brief survey.  If you have not
> filled out the survey please go to:
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=wsWAhIYE3XfDaKLojwMeNQ_3d_3d
>> Also a list serve has been set up specifically for the organization of the
> trade show, you can subscribe to this list by going to:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wispashow
>  
>> One more reminder on Friday then your chance for helping us plan this is
> done.  Thanks for your time.
>> Forbes Mercy
>>
>> WISPA - Promotions Committee Chair
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] budget friendly set top boxes

[Mike Hammett]

You won't be able to use any traditional US channels over a wireless system. 
They won't license it.

SD is about a meg or two and HD requires 5 - 10.

At times, my house would then require 17 - 34 megs.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Josh Cheney" 
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:16 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] budget friendly set top boxes

> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>> TV over wireless is a non-starter. Even if you used MPEG4 which is really 
>> for video you still can only get 2-3 channels.
>
> I was recently speaking with a relative of mine who is now getting his
> TV delivered over DSL. He is an engineer, so he asked the tech for a bit
> more information on how it works.
>
> With this system, only the channels that are actively being watched are
> beamed over the DSL line, and when you change a channel, it sends a
> signal to the TV "server" to deliver a different stream.
>
> With his connection, he is limited to watching 8-10 different channels
> at a time, but I could see this working well on a robust wireless
> network with a channel or two.
>
> Josh
>
>
> -- 
> Josh Cheney
> josh.che...@gmail.com
> http://www.joshcheney.com
>
>
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[WISPA] OSPF maximums

[Jory Privett]

For all of you routing gurus out there,   On MikroTiks version,  or any other 
brand,  of OSPF what is the maximum number of routes or routers in a single 
OSPF Area?  Is this only limitied by CPU/Memory or is there something else that 
dictates it?


Jory



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Re: [WISPA] budget friendly set top boxes

[Josh Cheney]

Jerry Richardson wrote:
> TV over wireless is a non-starter. Even if you used MPEG4 which is really for 
> video you still can only get 2-3 channels.

I was recently speaking with a relative of mine who is now getting his 
TV delivered over DSL. He is an engineer, so he asked the tech for a bit 
more information on how it works.

With this system, only the channels that are actively being watched are 
beamed over the DSL line, and when you change a channel, it sends a 
signal to the TV "server" to deliver a different stream.

With his connection, he is limited to watching 8-10 different channels 
at a time, but I could see this working well on a robust wireless 
network with a channel or two.

Josh


-- 
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josh.che...@gmail.com
http://www.joshcheney.com



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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[Michael Baird]

Tom,

This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at 
least 100ft+.

Regards
Michael Baird
> I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Michael Baird" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
>
>
>   
>> I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
>> recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[Joe Miller]

I also have a box load of maxrad 9dB omni antennas if anyone needs them.



- Original Message 
From: Marlon K. Schafer 
To: WISPA General List 
Sent: Thu, October 29, 2009 8:48:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

Yeah.  I don't use any omni's over 8 or 9 dB.  Well, I guess I have one 10 
out there, but I keep taking it out

The ONLY time I've suggested people use higher gain ones is when they are on 
a rooftop that's the same height as everyone else or down in a valley with 
customers up the sides.

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni


> I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Michael Baird" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
>
>
>>I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
>> recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
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>>
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>>
>> -- 
>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date:
>> 5/15/2009 6:16 AM
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] budget friendly set top boxes

[Mike Hammett]

That doesn't surprise me.  The TV companies own Hulu anyway, so it was 
inevitable that'd they'd need money from somewhere eventually.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Scottie Arnett" 
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 3:12 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] budget friendly set top boxes

> And... Hulu investors are considering HARD on charging for content access 
> as of about a month ago, a google search will surmise.
>
> Scott
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Jerry Richardson 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:41:50 -0400
>
>>TV over wireless is a non-starter. Even if you used MPEG4 which is really 
>>for video you still can only get 2-3 channels.
>>
>>A low-cost solution would be to set up something like a HULU server where 
>>the video is compressed enough that the wireless can handle it.
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>>Behalf Of Rogelio
>>Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:47 AM
>>To: wireless@wispa.org
>>Subject: [WISPA] budget friendly set top boxes
>>
>>Do you have any suggestions for budget friendly set top boxes?
>>
>>e.g.
>>
>>TV -> set top box  -> wireless CPE --> wireless stuff outside
>>
>>(mpeg-2 is most likely what they're looking for, not mpeg-4, as it's in
>>South America and they're looking for something very low cost)
>>
>>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>>
>>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>
> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as 
> $30.00/mth.
> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Yeah.  I don't use any omni's over 8 or 9 dB.  Well, I guess I have one 10 
out there, but I keep taking it out

The ONLY time I've suggested people use higher gain ones is when they are on 
a rooftop that's the same height as everyone else or down in a valley with 
customers up the sides.

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni


> I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Michael Baird" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
>
>
>>I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
>> recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date:
>> 5/15/2009 6:16 AM
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Time Running Out for Trade Show Survey

[Marlon K. Schafer]

I'd agree with Tom's idea here.  Vendor specific training should run the day 
before or after INDUSTRY specific training.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Time Running Out for Trade Show Survey


> Butch,
>
>>> There are many venues to get quality MT content for example, I'd rather
>>> WISPA push  content that WISPs cant get anywhere else to push a stronger
>>> call to action to come.
>>
>> I don't understand this statement at all.  I am assuming you mean you
>> would like to see content in this show that isn't being presented
>> elsewhere.  If so, what, SPECIFICALLY, would you suggest?
>
> To explain what I means. Quality Mikrotik Training available at...
>
> 1. Butch Evans training acadame  (I've seen your name many times on for 
> pay
> training).
> 2. Dennis Webinars training,
> 3. Microik MUMs
> 4. Eje's training camps.
> Etc etc etc etc.
>
> If I want Mikrotik training, it will take me about 2 minutes to go find
> some. That is a COMPLIMENT to Mikrotik that they are developing such a
> strong support/training base in the USA.  So what I'm saying is that a 
> WISPA
> show would not be a unique show of New content if it just became another
> standard Mikrotik training siminar. (I'd love to see Mikrotik specific
> training as either a parallel thread or piggy back as a day before/after
> main show.)
>
> I do NOT mean to say that Mikrotik shouldn;t have any involvement or
> session. Mikrotik should have as much opportunity for exposure as any 
> other
> vendors, and maybe even more because we have so many vendor members that
> sell Mikrotik. And we have so many GOOD Mikroik training people as 
> resources
> to WISPA.
>
> I'm simply suggesting that we look for unique content. I suggested MPLS,
> because I have not seen many sessions on MPLS at shows I attended. Its 
> also
> a feature that I think many WISPs dont use yet, because its new, and
> ironically its probably one of the most unique things about Mikrotik. I 
> can
> tell you if there was a MPLS for Mikrotik Session, I would surely attend 
> it.
>
> But you know, you are probably the better one to ask "what is unique
> Mikrotik training?" Because you provide so much training, you probably 
> know
> what you have covered and haven't?  What are your suggestions?
>
> But I'm also not saying it is easy to come up with unique topics, that is
> the big challenge of doing a great show.
>
>> I think the content should include some technical discussions with
>> specific products or technologies.  To use the example you brought up,
>> MPLS, we could build a small MPLS network using Mikrotik and Cisco or
>> any other product.  There could be a couple of sessions explaining the
>> technology, THEN we could provide a "breakout session" where people
>> could come in and experiment under the direction of someone who is
>> knowledgeable in the particular area.  This could be a vendor,
>> consultant or end user.  It wouldn't matter WHO provided the
>> configuration, but someone who could answer questions about the demo.  I
>> don't see this as "pushing a vendor specific content" as much as USING a
>> known vendor for a particular technology.
>
> I think that is an EXCELLENT idea as a format for the session.
>
>> Back to reality, it could be Canopy, Mikrotik (nstreme) and maybe
>> Alvarion or some others.  Each could offer a short "pitch" of what makes
>> their solution better (about 5 minute limit each) and the remainder of
>> the session could be Q&A.
>
> Attendees would love that. Although not sure many vendors would like that.
>
> But You did hit on a hot new topic of polling & TDD. The new trend is
> methods to mimic TDD, with hacked 802.11a MACs.
> Polling is not a new idea, if go back to Karlnet, Trango, even Waverider.
> But there are surely new implentations of it.
> We can use Ubiquiti's Airmux's new technique, or Mikrotik's NStreme, or
> Ligowave's proprietary MAC. I guess TDD and Polling are two different
> things, but its still the same kind if topic. It would be interesting to 
> get
> the low down on the new technology. And compare how they stacked up to the
> old methods. Although that might needs some prior R&D testing to gather 
> data
> before the presentation.  Or we just let the Vendors come tell us more 
> about
> their new methods.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Butch Evans" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Time Running Out for Trade Show Survey
>
>
>> On Wed, 2009-10-28 at 22:08 -0400, Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>> Not that I'm generally a fan to push MT or vendor specific content.
>>
>> I disagree with your assessment here.  More on that below.
>>
>>> There are many venues to get quality MT content for example, I'd rather
>>> WISPA push  content that WISPs cant get anywhere e

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[Joe Miller]

I have some slightly used 15dB omni's if you need any.



- Original Message 
From: Cameron Kilton 
To: WISPA General List 
Sent: Thu, October 29, 2009 7:55:44 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

MTI

-Cameron

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some 
recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.

Regards
Michael Baird




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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[Cameron Kilton]

You won't find a 16dbi omni in 5.8ghz, I've never seen one. We have used
a 12dbi omni and it works well. Once thing I have noticed is that 5.8ghz
high gain omni work better at the lower end of the 5.8 band. 

-Cameron

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:33 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

This one is 15dBi minimum from MTI...
http://www.mtiwe.com/uploads/product/239.pdf

I'd expect to pay somewhere around $550 or so for it though

Other than that I have only seen 10 and 12dBi ones typically.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Michael Baird
>Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:27 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
>
>I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
>recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>
>Regards
>Michael Baird
>
>
>---
-
>
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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[3-dB Networks]

This one is 15dBi minimum from MTI...
http://www.mtiwe.com/uploads/product/239.pdf

I'd expect to pay somewhere around $550 or so for it though

Other than that I have only seen 10 and 12dBi ones typically.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Michael Baird
>Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:27 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
>
>I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
>recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>
>Regards
>Michael Baird
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Verizon fiber

[Cameron Kilton]

Chances are, too much for anybody.

-Cameron

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Cameron Kilton
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:54 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon fiber

You we need to see where the closest splice point is.

-Cameron

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of John Valenti
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Verizon fiber

I'm assuming this is hopeless, but somebody here can probably confirm:

Verizon has fiber running down the dirt road that passes by a grain  
leg I'm using. (I'm told it was put in for 911 service to Bath, MI) 
Is it possible to have them tap into it and sell bulk bandwidth to  
me?  For less than 10s of thousand$?

If it helps, there is a small concrete vault nearby that the fiber  
runs thru. The farmer says the cover has been left open on that for  
years. You can look in and see a metal can (about 8" by 2') that the  
fiber runs thru.




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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[Cameron Kilton]

MTI

-Cameron

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some 
recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.

Regards
Michael Baird




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Re: [WISPA] Verizon fiber

[Cameron Kilton]

You we need to see where the closest splice point is.

-Cameron

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of John Valenti
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Verizon fiber

I'm assuming this is hopeless, but somebody here can probably confirm:

Verizon has fiber running down the dirt road that passes by a grain  
leg I'm using. (I'm told it was put in for 911 service to Bath, MI) 
Is it possible to have them tap into it and sell bulk bandwidth to  
me?  For less than 10s of thousand$?

If it helps, there is a small concrete vault nearby that the fiber  
runs thru. The farmer says the cover has been left open on that for  
years. You can look in and see a metal can (about 8" by 2') that the  
fiber runs thru.




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Re: [WISPA] budget friendly set top boxes

[Scottie Arnett]

And... Hulu investors are considering HARD on charging for content access as of 
about a month ago, a google search will surmise.

Scott

-- Original Message --
From: Jerry Richardson 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:41:50 -0400

>TV over wireless is a non-starter. Even if you used MPEG4 which is really for 
>video you still can only get 2-3 channels.
>
>A low-cost solution would be to set up something like a HULU server where the 
>video is compressed enough that the wireless can handle it.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
>Of Rogelio
>Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:47 AM
>To: wireless@wispa.org
>Subject: [WISPA] budget friendly set top boxes
>
>Do you have any suggestions for budget friendly set top boxes?
>
>e.g.
>
>TV -> set top box  -> wireless CPE --> wireless stuff outside
>
>(mpeg-2 is most likely what they're looking for, not mpeg-4, as it's in 
>South America and they're looking for something very low cost)
>
>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] cellular repeater/bidirectional amps

[Scottie Arnett]

-- Original Message --
From: Bret Clark 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:43:25 -0400

I understand. Just repeating what was told to me. I was working with a Wilson 
sales person to repeat cell service to a boat dock, and this was what I heard 
from the list. Something about spurious emissions on the cell bands from these 
amps and men in black helicopters.

I use a Wilson 3 watt amp on my cell and the only helicopter I see are the ones 
looking for mary jane grower's in my area.

Scott

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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[Tom DeReggi]

I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Baird" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni


>I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
> recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Time Running Out for Trade Show Survey

[Tom DeReggi]

Butch,

>> There are many venues to get quality MT content for example, I'd rather
>> WISPA push  content that WISPs cant get anywhere else to push a stronger
>> call to action to come.
>
> I don't understand this statement at all.  I am assuming you mean you
> would like to see content in this show that isn't being presented
> elsewhere.  If so, what, SPECIFICALLY, would you suggest?

To explain what I means. Quality Mikrotik Training available at...

1. Butch Evans training acadame  (I've seen your name many times on for pay 
training).
2. Dennis Webinars training,
3. Microik MUMs
4. Eje's training camps.
Etc etc etc etc.

If I want Mikrotik training, it will take me about 2 minutes to go find 
some. That is a COMPLIMENT to Mikrotik that they are developing such a 
strong support/training base in the USA.  So what I'm saying is that a WISPA 
show would not be a unique show of New content if it just became another 
standard Mikrotik training siminar. (I'd love to see Mikrotik specific 
training as either a parallel thread or piggy back as a day before/after 
main show.)

I do NOT mean to say that Mikrotik shouldn;t have any involvement or 
session. Mikrotik should have as much opportunity for exposure as any other 
vendors, and maybe even more because we have so many vendor members that 
sell Mikrotik. And we have so many GOOD Mikroik training people as resources 
to WISPA.

I'm simply suggesting that we look for unique content. I suggested MPLS, 
because I have not seen many sessions on MPLS at shows I attended. Its also 
a feature that I think many WISPs dont use yet, because its new, and 
ironically its probably one of the most unique things about Mikrotik. I can 
tell you if there was a MPLS for Mikrotik Session, I would surely attend it.

But you know, you are probably the better one to ask "what is unique 
Mikrotik training?" Because you provide so much training, you probably know 
what you have covered and haven't?  What are your suggestions?

But I'm also not saying it is easy to come up with unique topics, that is 
the big challenge of doing a great show.

> I think the content should include some technical discussions with
> specific products or technologies.  To use the example you brought up,
> MPLS, we could build a small MPLS network using Mikrotik and Cisco or
> any other product.  There could be a couple of sessions explaining the
> technology, THEN we could provide a "breakout session" where people
> could come in and experiment under the direction of someone who is
> knowledgeable in the particular area.  This could be a vendor,
> consultant or end user.  It wouldn't matter WHO provided the
> configuration, but someone who could answer questions about the demo.  I
> don't see this as "pushing a vendor specific content" as much as USING a
> known vendor for a particular technology.

I think that is an EXCELLENT idea as a format for the session.

> Back to reality, it could be Canopy, Mikrotik (nstreme) and maybe
> Alvarion or some others.  Each could offer a short "pitch" of what makes
> their solution better (about 5 minute limit each) and the remainder of
> the session could be Q&A.

Attendees would love that. Although not sure many vendors would like that.

But You did hit on a hot new topic of polling & TDD. The new trend is 
methods to mimic TDD, with hacked 802.11a MACs.
Polling is not a new idea, if go back to Karlnet, Trango, even Waverider. 
But there are surely new implentations of it.
We can use Ubiquiti's Airmux's new technique, or Mikrotik's NStreme, or 
Ligowave's proprietary MAC. I guess TDD and Polling are two different 
things, but its still the same kind if topic. It would be interesting to get 
the low down on the new technology. And compare how they stacked up to the 
old methods. Although that might needs some prior R&D testing to gather data 
before the presentation.  Or we just let the Vendors come tell us more about 
their new methods.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Butch Evans" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Time Running Out for Trade Show Survey


> On Wed, 2009-10-28 at 22:08 -0400, Tom DeReggi wrote:
>> Not that I'm generally a fan to push MT or vendor specific content.
>
> I disagree with your assessment here.  More on that below.
>
>> There are many venues to get quality MT content for example, I'd rather
>> WISPA push  content that WISPs cant get anywhere else to push a stronger
>> call to action to come.
>
> I don't understand this statement at all.  I am assuming you mean you
> would like to see content in this show that isn't being presented
> elsewhere.  If so, what, SPECIFICALLY, would you suggest?
>
> I think the content should include some technical discussions with
> specific products or technologies.  To use the example you brought up,
> MPLS, we could build a small MPLS network using Mikrotik and Cisco or