Re: [WISPA] Speaking of cool amps

[Robert West]

I used to live in Anytown.  It sucked.

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 8:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Speaking of cool amps

 

"This reminds me of the old CB amplifier business, which the FCC eventually
cracked down upon."

 

You mean they tried cracking down upon. CB's are still land of the "wild
west". When is the last time you heard someone getting a penalty for an
over-amp'ed CB? Reminds me of handgun laws cracking down upon the streets of
Anytown, USA.

 

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Fred Goldstein 
wrote:

At 10/15/2010 03:54 PM, MarlonS wrote:
>http://www.shireeninc.com/amplifiers-24-2watt-outdoor.html
>
>hehehehe

Hey, watt's a 4-watt amp [pun intended] among friends?

Oddly enough, I probably could use these legally, since they all hit
amateur frequencies as well as ISM frequencies.  They might be fun in
a VHF contest. However, I *seriously* doubt that anyone uses them that way.
;-)

This reminds me of the old CB amplifier business, which the FCC
eventually cracked down upon.

 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
 ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701






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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Glenn Kelley]

I cannot imagine how someone can charge what this guy does for a basic front 
end to pf in bsd. 

You could hire someone to write something for much less ... 

amazing 

vyatta does bandwidth shaping in their paid product - but in my humble opinion 
- it is lacking big time. 

pfsense does it - as well - much nicer 


On Oct 15, 2010, at 9:41 PM, Dan Ferguson wrote:

>  We had an ETINC box as well, I second what Travis says. Except it was 
> actually worse than Travis describes.
> 
> Avoid at all costs.
> 
> - Dan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/15/2010 8:47 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>   Run... run far far away...
>> 
>> We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support
>> and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system.
>> 
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> Dennis has been around for a very long time.
>>> http://www.etinc.com/
>>> 
>>> marlon
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Forbes Mercy"
>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
>>> 
>>> 
   In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new
 bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or
 bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week).  I'm
 looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.
 
 Thanks,
 Forbes
 
 
 
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_
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  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Dan Ferguson]

  We had an ETINC box as well, I second what Travis says. Except it was 
actually worse than Travis describes.

Avoid at all costs.

- Dan




On 10/15/2010 8:47 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>Run... run far far away...
>
> We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support
> and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> Dennis has been around for a very long time.
>> http://www.etinc.com/
>>
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Forbes Mercy"
>> To: "WISPA General List"
>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
>>
>>
>>>In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new
>>> bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or
>>> bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week).  I'm
>>> looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Forbes
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> 
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>>
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>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Speaking of cool amps

[RickG]

"This reminds me of the old CB amplifier business, which the FCC eventually
cracked down upon."

You mean they tried cracking down upon. CB's are still land of the "wild
west". When is the last time you heard someone getting a penalty for an
over-amp'ed CB? Reminds me of handgun laws cracking down upon the streets of
Anytown, USA.

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:

> At 10/15/2010 03:54 PM, MarlonS wrote:
> >http://www.shireeninc.com/amplifiers-24-2watt-outdoor.html
> >
> >hehehehe
>
> Hey, watt's a 4-watt amp [pun intended] among friends?
>
> Oddly enough, I probably could use these legally, since they all hit
> amateur frequencies as well as ISM frequencies.  They might be fun in
> a VHF contest. However, I *seriously* doubt that anyone uses them that way.
> ;-)
>
> This reminds me of the old CB amplifier business, which the FCC
> eventually cracked down upon.
>
>  --
>   Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>  +1 617 795 2701
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Speaking of cool amps

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Hi Fred,

Nusrat of Shireeninc does a lot of business over-seas and for folks in 
the Marine industries

.. I could be wrong, but you can get away with a heck of lot on an 
oil-rig or a tanker !

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, Fl 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net

On 10/15/2010 4:15 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:
> At 10/15/2010 03:54 PM, MarlonS wrote:
>> http://www.shireeninc.com/amplifiers-24-2watt-outdoor.html
>>
>> hehehehe
>
> Hey, watt's a 4-watt amp [pun intended] among friends?
>
> Oddly enough, I probably could use these legally, since they all hit
> amateur frequencies as well as ISM frequencies.  They might be fun in
> a VHF contest. However, I *seriously* doubt that anyone uses them that way. 
> ;-)
>
> This reminds me of the old CB amplifier business, which the FCC
> eventually cracked down upon.
>
>--
>Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>+1 617 795 2701
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Speaking of cool amps

[Marlon K. Schafer]

They've been cracking down on our business too.  And that's a good thing as 
far as I'm concerned.  Hi powered systems cause a lot of trouble in nearly 
any case.

I had to laugh at the earlier example turning out to be hyperlink amps!  We 
hear that name so seldom anymore I thought they'd finally gone away.

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Fred Goldstein" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Speaking of cool amps


> At 10/15/2010 03:54 PM, MarlonS wrote:
>>http://www.shireeninc.com/amplifiers-24-2watt-outdoor.html
>>
>>hehehehe
>
> Hey, watt's a 4-watt amp [pun intended] among friends?
>
> Oddly enough, I probably could use these legally, since they all hit
> amateur frequencies as well as ISM frequencies.  They might be fun in
> a VHF contest. However, I *seriously* doubt that anyone uses them that 
> way. ;-)
>
> This reminds me of the old CB amplifier business, which the FCC
> eventually cracked down upon.
>
>  --
>  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>  +1 617 795 2701
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Speaking of cool amps

[Fred Goldstein]

At 10/15/2010 03:54 PM, MarlonS wrote:
>http://www.shireeninc.com/amplifiers-24-2watt-outdoor.html
>
>hehehehe

Hey, watt's a 4-watt amp [pun intended] among friends?

Oddly enough, I probably could use these legally, since they all hit 
amateur frequencies as well as ISM frequencies.  They might be fun in 
a VHF contest. However, I *seriously* doubt that anyone uses them that way. ;-)

This reminds me of the old CB amplifier business, which the FCC 
eventually cracked down upon.

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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[WISPA] Speaking of cool amps

[Marlon K. Schafer]

http://www.shireeninc.com/amplifiers-24-2watt-outdoor.html

hehehehe
marlon




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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

"No Bandwidth Management for you.2 weeks!"

 

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 12:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

 

  Run... run far far away...

We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support
and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system.

Travis
Microserv


On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Dennis has been around for a very long time.
> http://www.etinc.com/
>
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Forbes Mercy"
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
>
>
>>   In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new
>> bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or
>> bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week).  I'm
>> looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Forbes
>>
>>
>>


>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>
>


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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Ryan Ghering]

I agree, when I first came to work for my current employer he had etinc
bandwidth managers..

We ended up calling him the bandwidth nazi.. he was horrible to deal with
and
thought that everyone was stupid and treated you that way..

Ryan

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

>  Run... run far far away...
>
> We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support
> and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> > Dennis has been around for a very long time.
> > http://www.etinc.com/
> >
> > marlon
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Forbes Mercy"
> > To: "WISPA General List"
> > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM
> > Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
> >
> >
> >>   In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new
> >> bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or
> >> bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week).  I'm
> >> looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Forbes
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
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-- 
Ryan Ghering
Network Operations - Plains.Net
Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879



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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Yeah, his attitude has cost him a LOT of business over the years.

He and I had a number of long talks about that quite some time back and it 
seemed like he was getting better.

How long has it been since you've worked with him?

BTW, according to his site, a license for his software is only $500 right 
now.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager


>  Run... run far far away...
>
> We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support
> and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> Dennis has been around for a very long time.
>> http://www.etinc.com/
>>
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Forbes Mercy"
>> To: "WISPA General List"
>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
>>
>>
>>>   In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new
>>> bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or
>>> bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week).  I'm
>>> looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Forbes
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>> 
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Mark Nash]

I can respect your frustration, Forbes.  Some may remember a thread that I 
brought up "Is RIP Stable" because our network engineer swore up & down that 
RIP was flaky between two sites and the upstream router was dropping all the 
routes to this site every few minutes etc etc etc yada yada yada blah blah 
blah.

Knowing that it just didn't seem right, I told him that something is 
configured incorrectly and that's that.

I made our manager sit down with him and watch him go over the RIP config 
line by line.  Since Mikrotik doesn't allow you to put comments on each 
"network" or "neighbor" statement, had to look up each IP in our 
documentation.

Was time-consuming, but he found HIS mistake. ;)

My point is, keep working from your edge back and you'll find it. 
Persistence.  Good luck.

Mark

- Original Message - 
From: "Forbes Mercy" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager


>  The response to my request has been overwhelming, this morning it was
> amazing, response after great response.  Because of the strong
> insistence that Mikrotik is so great we are trying to make it work.
> Dennis helped a lot by setting up remote sys log using software we
> already have.  We are setting up Network Monitoring, as we speak and we
> are already catching some culprits that have been causing a little
> havoc.  With our upgrade to 100MB next week we wanted hardware that can
> handle it, this is a learning process and we're so happy to have had the
> help in better understanding networks.
>
> We won't overreact and just dump Mikrotik but now with the ability to
> maybe catch what's causing the problem we can rest a little easier
> knowing that when it happens, and it will, we can read the log file and
> hope it's "something so simple we'll just kick ourselves", as Dennis
> said, we hope so.  The offers for help included three members committing
> to "fly up there this weekend" if we need them, Wow what a great group
> of people here!
>
> Thanks to everyone for their help, it's the best of WISPA when everyone
> pitches in to help a WISP in trouble.
>
> Forbes Mercy
> President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Larry A Weidig]

I am in 100% agreement with Travis on this.  We had the EXACT
same experience.

* Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net)
* Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/
* (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area
* (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 11:47 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

  Run... run far far away...

We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support 
and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system.

Travis
Microserv


On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Dennis has been around for a very long time.
> http://www.etinc.com/
>
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Forbes Mercy"
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
>
>
>>   In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a
new
>> bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports
or
>> bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week).  I'm
>> looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Forbes
>>
>>
>>


>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] saturate frequency

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Yeah, that was my first thought.

The only reason to do this is to cause problems for someone.

Do NOT go that route Scott.  It's always the second one in a fight that gets 
into the most trouble.

Get a hold of a spectrum analyzer, document what's being done and then sue 
their tails off.  The FCC, local law enforcement etc. will go after anyone 
being malicious with the spectrum.

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Piehn" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] saturate frequency


> what comes around goes around.
>
>
> 
> Scott Piehn
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jeromie Reeves" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 9:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] saturate frequency
>
>
>> This begs the question, Why?
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Scott Piehn  wrote:
>>> I know you can completely use spectrum by doing a bandwidth test or
>>> something else, but that takes two sides to the link. I only have one.
>>> Is it possible without a remote site you are linking to.
>>>
>>> This is using ubnt M5 line
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> Scott Piehn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
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>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Forbes Mercy]

  The response to my request has been overwhelming, this morning it was 
amazing, response after great response.  Because of the strong 
insistence that Mikrotik is so great we are trying to make it work.  
Dennis helped a lot by setting up remote sys log using software we 
already have.  We are setting up Network Monitoring, as we speak and we 
are already catching some culprits that have been causing a little 
havoc.  With our upgrade to 100MB next week we wanted hardware that can 
handle it, this is a learning process and we're so happy to have had the 
help in better understanding networks.

We won't overreact and just dump Mikrotik but now with the ability to 
maybe catch what's causing the problem we can rest a little easier 
knowing that when it happens, and it will, we can read the log file and 
hope it's "something so simple we'll just kick ourselves", as Dennis 
said, we hope so.  The offers for help included three members committing 
to "fly up there this weekend" if we need them, Wow what a great group 
of people here!

Thanks to everyone for their help, it's the best of WISPA when everyone 
pitches in to help a WISP in trouble.

Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc.




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Re: [WISPA] WISPA Ex Parte Filing from yesterday

[Brian Webster]

Matt,

What do you have your availability percentages set at in
your network properties of Radio Mobile? For any tree class going above 180
or 200% tells me you have something set wrong in the RF tool somewhere else.
The examples I posted are actually in fairly  dense forested areas of
upstate NY. The tree clutter was factored in to the model. Remember also
that in these lower frequencies the tree loss factor drops considerably as
the absorption rate gets lower in the lower frequencies.

 



Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Matt Jenkins [mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net] 
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 12:49 PM
To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA Ex Parte Filing from yesterday

 

Brian,

I really like your idea for a full duplex system. Your example does not
appear to have much foliage and has rather high density. I feel that TVWS
should be used primarily for the low density with lots of foliage. High
density areas like that could very easily be serviced with higher
frequencies (5.2/5.8)

Would you be willing to look at how effective this would be from a tower
located at  39.184900 -120.963500?
The tree height is on average 120ft. A mix of mostly Pine and some large
Oak. By setting the land cover density to 500% in Radio Mobile, I am still
not able to adequately reproduce the amount of path loss due to foliage when
compared to most links I have deployed in 900mhz.

Thanks,

- Matt

On 10/14/2010 06:16 PM, Brian Webster wrote: 

The request was made for the simple reason of being able to use the 40 mw
devices in a split radio architecture. If anyone caught my posting about how
far you can broadcast with 40 mw, it might make more sense. If you transmit
on one end of a link using 40 mw radio you could use a high gain antenna on
the other ends receiver to make up for the low power. Design a radio with a
separate receiver from the transmitter and you can have a multipoint system
that can operate in the first adjacent channels and still work for a WISP.
The key concept is that your transmitter does not use the same antenna as
your receiver keeping the power levels fully legal. The 40 mw devices in the
first adjacent channels do not have any HAAT limits. They are referred to as
mobile devices. There was a potential problem in the rules to make this
work. There was one little statement that said any transmitter and/or
receiver could not exceed the HAAT rules. It makes no sense for a receiver
to have to abide by that since it cannot cause interference. The FCC
apparently agreed. 
 
40 mw transmit into a no gain antenna is legal, a 15 dbi receive antenna on
the other end is legal to. Put one of each in all radio devices and we can
operate in the first adjacent channels, PLUS you can transmit and receive on
separate frequencies thus having 12 MHz to work with.
 
We need to get out of the thought process of half duplex radios operating in
a single channel using the same antenna. If you can use first adjacent
channels you have a whole lot more capacity in each market than just the 4
watt EIRP non-adjacent channels. Split transmit and receive radios will also
allow you to mix and match high and low power. Use high power for the
downlink and have multiple remote receivers on the low power channels for
the uplink.
 
See the attached Google Earth file comparing the different channels and
power levels (save it to your hard drive prior to opening in Google Earth).
Remember these TV channels give you 15 to 20 db gain over current unlicensed
bands due to the reduction in free space loss that fact in conjunction with
a 15 dbi gain receive antenna gives you up to 35 db gain to a 40 mw signal
over what one would expect say a 40 mw Wi-Fi radio to broadcast.
 
The second issue they tried to address was the sites that exceed the 76
meter HAAT rules but would not exceed a total of 106 meters HAAT that you
would in effect have if you build a 30 meter tower on such a site. They
tried to get the erratum fixed to allow for any combination of site
elevation and tower height so long as the total HAAT does not exceed the 106
meters. 
 
Fred do any of the sites you mention exceed the total HAAT of 106 meters?
The FCC said that unless the broadcasters agree that the combination issues
was not a big deal it would have to go out for public comment. The receiver
issue was just a separate point that was talked about in the same meeting.
 
Please take the time to re-read the FCC notice and use your RF expertise to
think of how one can stay within the rules and design radio systems to take
full advantage of the rules as they are written. I came up with these
thoughts to hopefully get manufacturers to produce devices to take advantage
of the new rules, not just repurpose existing unlicensed gear to operate on
these new frequencies. That would be a total waste of this new frontier and
very spectrum inefficient.
 
 
 
Thank You,
Brian W

Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[David E. Smith]

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:36, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

> Dennis has been around for a very long time.
> http://www.etinc.com/


I remember owning one of these, a long time ago. We had to pull it not
because of any issues with the software, but because of (indirect) hardware
problems. We used to not ground things as well as we do now. The system we
had had a PCI four-port Ethernet card installed, and over time lightning
rendered enough of the interfaces inoperable that we could no longer use the
system for that. (At the time, nobody in my office knew very much about
FreeBSD or NetBSD or whichever BSD it used, so replacing the card and simply
changing the interfaces' MACs in software wasn't feasible.)

>From what I recall, the fact that you had a choice of both Web interfaces or
scriptable CLI to set up a bunch of rules quickly was nice, and this was
over eight years ago; I'm sure the product has improved greatly since then.

(For the record, we now use Mikrotik for bandwidth shaping. Nothing against
ETInc, as such, we've just moved on.)

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] WISPA Ex Parte Filing from yesterday

[Matt Jenkins]

Brian,

I really like your idea for a full duplex system. Your example does not
appear to have much foliage and has rather high density. I feel that
TVWS should be used primarily for the low density with lots of foliage.
High density areas like that could very easily be serviced with higher
frequencies (5.2/5.8)

Would you be willing to look at how effective this would be from a
tower located at  39.184900 -120.963500?
The tree height is on average 120ft. A mix of mostly Pine and some
large Oak. By setting the land cover density to 500% in Radio Mobile, I
am still not able to adequately reproduce the amount of path loss due
to foliage when compared to most links I have deployed in 900mhz.

Thanks,

- Matt

On 10/14/2010 06:16 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

  The request was made for the simple reason of being able to use the 40 mw
devices in a split radio architecture. If anyone caught my posting about how
far you can broadcast with 40 mw, it might make more sense. If you transmit
on one end of a link using 40 mw radio you could use a high gain antenna on
the other ends receiver to make up for the low power. Design a radio with a
separate receiver from the transmitter and you can have a multipoint system
that can operate in the first adjacent channels and still work for a WISP.
The key concept is that your transmitter does not use the same antenna as
your receiver keeping the power levels fully legal. The 40 mw devices in the
first adjacent channels do not have any HAAT limits. They are referred to as
mobile devices. There was a potential problem in the rules to make this
work. There was one little statement that said any transmitter and/or
receiver could not exceed the HAAT rules. It makes no sense for a receiver
to have to abide by that since it cannot cause interference. The FCC
apparently agreed. 

40 mw transmit into a no gain antenna is legal, a 15 dbi receive antenna on
the other end is legal to. Put one of each in all radio devices and we can
operate in the first adjacent channels, PLUS you can transmit and receive on
separate frequencies thus having 12 MHz to work with.

We need to get out of the thought process of half duplex radios operating in
a single channel using the same antenna. If you can use first adjacent
channels you have a whole lot more capacity in each market than just the 4
watt EIRP non-adjacent channels. Split transmit and receive radios will also
allow you to mix and match high and low power. Use high power for the
downlink and have multiple remote receivers on the low power channels for
the uplink.

See the attached Google Earth file comparing the different channels and
power levels (save it to your hard drive prior to opening in Google Earth).
Remember these TV channels give you 15 to 20 db gain over current unlicensed
bands due to the reduction in free space loss that fact in conjunction with
a 15 dbi gain receive antenna gives you up to 35 db gain to a 40 mw signal
over what one would expect say a 40 mw Wi-Fi radio to broadcast.

The second issue they tried to address was the sites that exceed the 76
meter HAAT rules but would not exceed a total of 106 meters HAAT that you
would in effect have if you build a 30 meter tower on such a site. They
tried to get the erratum fixed to allow for any combination of site
elevation and tower height so long as the total HAAT does not exceed the 106
meters. 

Fred do any of the sites you mention exceed the total HAAT of 106 meters?
The FCC said that unless the broadcasters agree that the combination issues
was not a big deal it would have to go out for public comment. The receiver
issue was just a separate point that was talked about in the same meeting.

Please take the time to re-read the FCC notice and use your RF expertise to
think of how one can stay within the rules and design radio systems to take
full advantage of the rules as they are written. I came up with these
thoughts to hopefully get manufacturers to produce devices to take advantage
of the new rules, not just repurpose existing unlicensed gear to operate on
these new frequencies. That would be a total waste of this new frontier and
very spectrum inefficient.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Fred Goldstein
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA Ex Parte Filing from yesterday

At 10/14/2010 08:16 PM, you wrote:
  
  
  Fred,

If you don't know how to use this then don't use it. Simple.

  
  
Making snarky insults doesn't answer the question.  Quite frankly I 
have a pretty strong RF and regulatory background so it is not a good 
idea to treat me like a dunce.  So I'll ask the question 
differently.  Do I need to create a new petition or did you address 
the up-the-hill WISP subscriber issue?

I am looking at potential subscriber locations above 75m HAAT.  So I 
wa

Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Travis Johnson]

  Run... run far far away...

We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support 
and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system.

Travis
Microserv


On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Dennis has been around for a very long time.
> http://www.etinc.com/
>
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Forbes Mercy"
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
>
>
>>   In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new
>> bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or
>> bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week).  I'm
>> looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Forbes
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Dennis has been around for a very long time.
http://www.etinc.com/

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Forbes Mercy" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager


>  In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new
> bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or
> bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week).  I'm
> looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
> Forbes
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[support]

  NETEQ or PFSense

On 10/15/2010 10:34 AM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
> Well I really don't feel good saying TrafficXpress or whatever their latest 
> incarnation is from Logisense, but see if that is something that you can use.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Forbes Mercy
> Reply-To: WISPA General List
> Date:  Thu, 14 Oct 2010 16:40:21 -0700
>
>>   Ya know I'd be a lot more patient for the smart a$$ comments if I
>> didn't have to live through this, I've hired the best guys on this list
>> to solve it and the only answer I get in the end is "that shouldn't
>> happen".  I can be non-geek enough to know if I can't hire the fix it
>> ain't gonna work.  All the loyalists to a certain brand be it Mikrotik
>> or Mac users can either say 'if he can't make that work here's our
>> suggestion' or come sit in my chair for a while and wait for the
>> hundreds of calls when a piece of gear just drops for no reason.  I've
>> avoided Windows like the plague and run a 100% linux back end, every ISP
>> I bought I converted to my format, you don't have to tell me horror
>> stories I've been in this business since the beginning. I'm inferring to
>> a more GUI type interface, hell it could be redhat for all I know, I'm
>> looking for solutions not preferences.
>>
>> On 10/14/2010 4:27 PM, Jeremy Parr wrote:
>>> Splendid idea there guy, replace Mikrotik with a Windows box. Gotta
>>> wonder I'd the problem is between the keyboard and the chair here.
>>>
>>> On 10/14/10, Forbes Mercy   wrote:
 In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new
 bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or
 bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week).  I'm
 looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.

 Thanks,
 Forbes


 
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 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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>>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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-- 


Tim Steele

supp...@nitline.com

NITLine Support

(574) 772-7550 ext 103

www.NITLine.net




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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Stuart Pierce]

Well I really don't feel good saying TrafficXpress or whatever their latest 
incarnation is from Logisense, but see if that is something that you can use.

-- Original Message --
From: Forbes Mercy 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Thu, 14 Oct 2010 16:40:21 -0700

>  Ya know I'd be a lot more patient for the smart a$$ comments if I 
>didn't have to live through this, I've hired the best guys on this list 
>to solve it and the only answer I get in the end is "that shouldn't 
>happen".  I can be non-geek enough to know if I can't hire the fix it 
>ain't gonna work.  All the loyalists to a certain brand be it Mikrotik 
>or Mac users can either say 'if he can't make that work here's our 
>suggestion' or come sit in my chair for a while and wait for the 
>hundreds of calls when a piece of gear just drops for no reason.  I've 
>avoided Windows like the plague and run a 100% linux back end, every ISP 
>I bought I converted to my format, you don't have to tell me horror 
>stories I've been in this business since the beginning. I'm inferring to 
>a more GUI type interface, hell it could be redhat for all I know, I'm 
>looking for solutions not preferences.
>
>On 10/14/2010 4:27 PM, Jeremy Parr wrote:
>> Splendid idea there guy, replace Mikrotik with a Windows box. Gotta
>> wonder I'd the problem is between the keyboard and the chair here.
>>
>> On 10/14/10, Forbes Mercy  wrote:
>>>In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new
>>> bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or
>>> bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week).  I'm
>>> looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Forbes
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
 





Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net


 
   



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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Fred Goldstein]

At 10/15/2010 07:45 AM, MikeH wrote:
>   I think it feels like you're walking into the wolves' den because
>everyone else has such excellent experiences with Mikrotik routing.  I
>can assure you that it's not the load alone that's making Mikrotik flake
>out.
>
>I'm not going to pretend I know your network size or capacity
>requirements, but Travis runs a network with thousands of users and
>hundreds of megabits in use at any one time.  Brad's network has just as
>much capacity if not more than Travis.

Merely curious at this stage... WHICH model MikroTiks are 
misbehaving?  If it is a CPU speed or memory issue, it could vary 
based on which generation or specific model of Routerboard is in use.

I'm leery of LAN-style "bridging".  I don't know if it's the case in 
your network, but traditional LAN bridges let everyone hear everyone 
else's broadcasts.  I much prefer Layer 2 "switching".  This isn't 
the same as routing, since it passes IP transparently, but it 
isolates users from one another and uses VLAN tags rather than MAC 
addresses.  I have a hunch (and may be *all wet*; this is NOT based 
on actual knowledge, as I am not a coder and couldn't decipher a 
driver if you laid it out on a silver platter in front of me) that 
bridging, with MAC addresses, uses certain hardware features that are 
bypassed in switching, where it might do more in software.  This 
would have been a bad idea 20 years ago when CPUs were slow and RAM 
was expensive... Maybe turning on VLAN tagging could help.  Just guessing!

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] WISPA Ex Parte Filing from yesterday

[Mike Hammett]

  Seems like an overly pompous response to an overtly obvious 
statement.  No site we'll do is transmit only or receive only.  All will 
do 2 way communications, though Brian's suggestions would have transmit 
only and receive only radios.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 10/14/2010 7:16 PM, Jack Unger wrote:
>Fred,
>
> If you don't know how to use this then don't use it. Simple.
>
> Thank-you for your opinion and have a good day.
>
> jack
>
>
> On 10/14/2010 5:13 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:
>> At 10/14/2010 06:35 PM, you wrote:
>>> Fred,
>>>
>>> Sites with TVWS receiving equipment instead of TVWS base stations
>>> that transmit.
>> Yes, which is worth precisely zero to a WISP, since we need two-way
>> transceivers.  The only receive-only equipment is what goes with
>> wireless mics; the mics themselves are transmit only.
>>
>>> jack
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/14/2010 3:22 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:
 At 10/14/2010 06:12 PM, you wrote:

> Steve Coran (respresenting WISPA), Comsearch, Motorola and Spectrum
> Bridge met with Julius Knapp and others from the FCC OET office
> yesterday in regard to certain limiting factors in the TVWS
> Memorandum Report&Order language.  Below is the Ex parte Filing
> that was made today.
 Rick, when you guys said "to remove the HAAT restriction for
 receive-only sites", did you really mean receive-only, or did you
 mean the PtP subscriber (slave) station that talks to the "tower"?

 I am glad to see action this soon on the 76-meter issue, since it not
 only impacts tower locations, but subscriber sites.

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701




>>> 
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>>> --
>>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
>>> Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks"
>>> Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 
>>> 1993
>>> www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> --
>> Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>> ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>> +1 617 795 2701
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>> 
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>>



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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Mike Hammett]

  I think it feels like you're walking into the wolves' den because 
everyone else has such excellent experiences with Mikrotik routing.  I 
can assure you that it's not the load alone that's making Mikrotik flake 
out.

I'm not going to pretend I know your network size or capacity 
requirements, but Travis runs a network with thousands of users and 
hundreds of megabits in use at any one time.  Brad's network has just as 
much capacity if not more than Travis.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 10/14/2010 7:13 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:
>Again not a true statement, $3000 for a visit by a network
> administrator to route us (already got the quote), $600 for a packeteer
> on eBay.  Then we can route it ourselves because the network won't drop
> every day when a piece of crap router drops the ethernet port every time
> it sees traffic it doesn't like, who designs something like that
> anyway!?  ZERO drops from UBNT gear and it's handling the exact same
> gear as the Mikrotik did, EXACT same packets. OK ok sorry I'm getting
> pissed now, going to walk away for the night... I just asked for
> alternatives, that's all.  Didn't mean to walk into the MAC users group
> and say Windows was better.
>
> On 10/14/2010 5:01 PM, Jeromie Reeves wrote:
>> Sounds like you need to have someone come visit the network in person.
>> There has to be a reasonable explination for what is going on your
>> network, and i posit that no device you find is going to work right
>> till that root cause is found.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Forbes Mercy
>>wrote:
>>> I also haven't been in my core router in ages, my template IS by Butch as I
>>> stated before, I HAVE had Dennis look at the outages, everyone is stumped,
>>> if I can't depend on it I don't want it.  THEN I'll have time to route the
>>> network.  I've used Mikrotik for years and until the load got to high things
>>> ran fine, I wish I could make it work but its down just too much.
>>>
>>> On 10/14/2010 4:18 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with Travis.
>>>
>>> Also the thread is about a bandwidth manager, which just like Travis, you
>>> would do at the edge between you and your upstream.  Your APs, backhauls and
>>> other radios can be Ubnt/Canopy/Linksys/etc
>>>
>>> I would suggest spending the minimal amount of money for the MT router,
>>> Butch's template and forget about it.  If you do have an issue (IMO it will
>>> be something a person did to the network if no one logs into it making
>>> changes all the time) you have Butch, Dennis, the list, etc.
>>>
>>> I can't remember the last time I logged into the core router.  When I did,
>>> it was to copy some rules to share on a list or ##mikrotik.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Travis Johnson   wrote:
 Hi,

 You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I
 have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer
 radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues
 you describe.

 Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has
 thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a 
 daily
 basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware
 upgrades).

 Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or
 you will continue to have more and more problems...

 Travis
 Microserv


 On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:

 Really Josh, you want me to rehash this?  To be simple I'm not a true
 geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all.  Our network of 700
 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long
 enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year 
 (we
 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech).  We've found
 that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four
 of our towers have over that.  When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10%
 Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms
 started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning
 off.  Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from 
 the
 rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic
 driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth
 (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff).

 To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios.
 Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take
 down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new
 word) regularity.  Then the bandwidth ma

Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Mike Hammett]

  You're leaving Mikrotik, but...

All of my bandwidth management is done at the tower and is performed by 
Mikrotik.  The non-customer facing routers don't do anything but route, 
though will eventually adopt Butch's QoS I'm sure.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 10/14/2010 5:15 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:
>In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new
> bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or
> bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week).  I'm
> looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
> Forbes
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Scott Reed]

 Forbes, just be careful, here.  ALL equipment exhibits some sort of 
goofiness when it hits its limit.  If the processor can not handle the 
load, bad things happen.  If it runs out of memory, it does goofy 
things.  Whether it is an MT or Cisco, it will fail at some level of 
loading.  The Ubiquiti will, too, at some point.


I don't think your problem is MT, per se,  It also is not bridging as 
many like to make it out.  It looks to me that the problem is MT doesn't 
handle large amounts of data or high packet rates over bridged ports.


While I don't have a direct answer for your question, I do have a  
long-term recommendation:
Determine what the traffic load is now and what you anticipate it to be 
in 1, 3 and 5 years.  Determine what you want the network topology to be 
in 1,  3, and 5 years.  Do some research and find the equipment that 
will handle the load in the topology you want in 5 years.  That is the 
gear to use.  I understand your current feeling and I do not disagree 
with your approach.  Just be aware that anything you do today without 
the planning is very likely to also be a "throw-away" purchase.  Use it 
to get over the current hump, but expect to throw it away when you get 
to the configuration you want.





On 10/14/2010 7:56 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:
I also haven't been in my core router in ages, my template IS by Butch 
as I stated before, I HAVE had Dennis look at the outages, everyone is 
stumped, if I can't depend on it I don't want it.  THEN I'll have time 
to route the network.  I've used Mikrotik for years and until the load 
got to high things ran fine, I wish I could make it work but its down 
just too much.


On 10/14/2010 4:18 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

I agree with Travis.

Also the thread is about a bandwidth manager, which just like Travis, 
you would do at the edge between you and your upstream.  Your APs, 
backhauls and other radios can be Ubnt/Canopy/Linksys/etc


I would suggest spending the minimal amount of money for the MT 
router, Butch's template and forget about it.  If you do have an 
issue (IMO it will be something a person did to the network if no one 
logs into it making changes all the time) you have Butch, Dennis, the 
list, etc.


I can't remember the last time I logged into the core router.  When I 
did, it was to copy some rules to share on a list or ##mikrotik.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Travis Johnson > wrote:


Hi,

You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are
running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000
Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy)
and have NONE of the issues you describe.

Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and
it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x
150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right
now (due only to firmware upgrades).

Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix
that, or you will continue to have more and more problems...

Travis
Microserv



On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:

Really Josh, you want me to rehash this?  To be simple I'm not a
true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all.  Our
network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I
can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with
the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3
installs a day with one installer/field tech).  We've found that
if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues,
four of our towers have over that.  When I was all Mikrotik
(well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a
half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing
weird intermittent things like turning off.  Sure we did the
obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of
the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic
driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more
bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff).

To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti
radios.  Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure
really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges
now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity.  Then the
bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason
the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were
like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges.  We compensated by
making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we
could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. 
We are spending all of our time building redundant this and

redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage
Mikrotik's had c