Re: [WISPA] chilly tower climb

2014-11-13 Thread Marco Coelho
Always remember to take your ski mask off before going to the bank. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com wrote: Nah, most skiers don't look where they are going anyway (ducking!) On 13/11/2014 17:45, Jay Weekley wrote: Surely there are skiers

Re: [WISPA] chilly tower climb

2014-11-13 Thread Jay Weekley
Reminds me of when I drove through McDonald's drive through with a bandolier of 12 gauge shells around my shoulder. Nothing came of it but it was definitely an oh crap moment when I realized it. Marco Coelho wrote: Always remember to take your ski mask off before going to the bank. On

Re: [WISPA] Transtector ALPU-TSU

2014-11-13 Thread rwallace
Bob, just saw your e-mail, if you still have any of these left I'll take ten (10). Don't know if you remember me but you sold me a 5/8 Heliax and gave me good advice regarding 'grounding' a wireless system 7 or 8 years ago. Ronald E. Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 South Jackson St. Addison, MI

[WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Colton Conor
We are comparing multiple SOHO routers and modems that have the same Broadcom chipsets. All of them have 802.11N 2x2 configuration. The only differences between them are if they have internal or external antennas and the gain of the antennas (either 2, 3, or 5dbi ratings). In addition, some sell a

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Jack Unger
To double the communications distance (everything else holding steady) requires an additional 6 dB. Knowing this, you can do the math with the various antenna gains and power levels to determine performance. Regards, Jack Unger WISPA

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Jason Bailey
Higher gain,lower power works best,in almost any situation. On Thursday, November 13, 2014 1:15 PM, Colton Conor colton.co...@gmail.com wrote: We are comparing multiple SOHO routers and modems that have the same Broadcom chipsets. All of them have 802.11N 2x2 configuration. The only

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Fred Goldstein
On 11/13/2014 1:26 PM, Jason Bailey wrote: Higher gain,lower power works best,in almost any situation. But not necessarily in-home. Higher gain only comes from a more directive antenna. An omni gain antenna has a pancake pattern. If it's a one-story building, fine. But I ran into the

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Colton Conor
So going from a regular powered 100mw (20db) to a high powered 400mw (26db) is a 6db increase in output power. So you are saying going from regular to high powered is a double in coverage size? Doesn't increasing the power output at the AP only increase how loud the AP can shout which in term

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread John Thomas
You have the right idea. It is only when you increase power on both ends that the distance increases. Tablets in particular only have about 10 - 15 mW radios so that is the lowest common denominator. If you have radios with removable antennas, you can sometimes use different antennas to

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Jack Unger
Going from 20 dB to 26 dB will allow the AP to be heard (with the same reliability) at double the distance away. Yes. If the client power (actually the client EIRP which includes the antenna gain) stays the same then the "uplink" distance from

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Colton Conor
In my situation, we are assuming we are dealing with a location with one and only one AP (typical home) and most devices are tablets and smartphones who's antenna's and power output can't be modified. Can be either a 1 or 2 story home. So, how much truth is in this article:

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Ben West
Yes, radios will negotiate different rx/tx rates to each other, so up to 2 distinct rates for a single link. On the open source mac80211 linux-wireless driver you can see this explicitly. The rx/tx on one radio is the tx/rx on the other. root@ap1:~# iw wlan0 station dump Station

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Colton Conor
Awesome, I am already learning so much from this mailing list. So it sound like the author was right. So boosting the power output on the AP will more than likely boost the TX (downlink) speed on the AP side, but do nothing on the RX speed side of the AP since nothing from the clients sending

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Josh Luthman
You are correct. It never will. Rx can only be improved by a bigger antenna to listen with. Antenna gain always has and will be better than raw power. Unless you include the other side's Tx, in which case more power and gain will help. In the Wifi world you're totally screwed because it's a

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Ben West
Depending on how fancy Broadcom's 802.11 implementation is in devices being tested, there is also the Transmit Power Control (TPC) feature of 802.11h, although that is normally (exclusively?) intended for 5.8GHz band, i.e. as part of DFS. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11h-2003 If

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Ryan McKenzie
I second what Josh is saying. I build out a lot of hotels and large offices, and because of iPhones and iPads, we've started doubling up on the AP's we normally would deploy. In an indoor environment, it's really tough to do a very directional antenna because you are usually trying to cover

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Josh Reynolds
All of the UBNT AC products use broadcom. On 11/13/2014 02:59 PM, Ryan McKenzie wrote: I second what Josh is saying. I build out a lot of hotels and large offices, and because of iPhones and iPads, we've started doubling up on the AP's we normally would deploy. In an indoor environment, it's

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Colton Conor
We are deploying a DSL network, and Broadcom is the leader in the DSL chipset market. So most all these modems we are using have a Broadcom SoC design with the VDSL2 modem, 802.11N 2x2 MIMO, Ethernet Switch, and CPU all built in. The only thing the modem manufacturers change is the power output on

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Tim Kerns
A little caution ... transmit power does not necessarily equate to speed. Speed is a combination of signal strength, signal quality (lack of noise or interference) and distance. And doubling the output power will not result in double the speed. Transmit power will give you further distance,

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Colton Conor
Tim, Yes, I understand that. I understand the factors that have to be enabled for the PHY rate to be the full 300Mbps that 802.11N 2x2 configuration allows for. You have to use 40Mhz band, short guards, and both AP and client have to have 2x2 setup. What I am talking about here is trying to

[WISPA] A-MPDU A-MSDU

2014-11-13 Thread Colton Conor
Is there any tool you can run on the client side of a network to see if an AP supports or has enabled A-MPDU A-MSDU. Both of these settings seem to substantially increase overall net throughput on wireless networks. However, some of the APs we are using don't have an on/off switch for these two

Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw

2014-11-13 Thread Mike Hammett
Hell, you could use an SXT and go as high as you want. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Fred Goldstein f...@interisle.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 1:07:20 PM Subject: Re: