Re: [WISPA] MT tools
I have already emailed Mikrotik a week ago, and opened a new thread on their forum. They should at least get the idea of what I need and develop a test that is specific to their wireless. I do NOT want this to turn into a year long project. Travis Tom DeReggi wrote: Butch, You have misunderstood. (you must have been reading top down) I was responding to Dennis Burgess's post, who was showing interest in possibly getting involved to ask Mikrotik on our behalf, but first asked for clarification on exactly what features we wanted. Its not as clear cut as just asking for something. We ourselves need to be clear about what we want. These are very technical issues. If it were easy, it would have already been done. My post brought up real technical traits that needed to be considered in defining what was best to ask for. You of all people as a consultant should understand these technical differences. I'm not a know-it-all Lone Ranger, I also am looking for feedback from others that may have ideas. Going to MT with an unrealistic request or one that was not fully thought out, would just be a waste of their time. This thread was not meant to point out inferiorities in a protocol or product. It was meant to find ways for innovation and improvement. Believe me, when I got something to ask for, or something to complain about, I have no problem going direct to the manufacturer in a flash, but I need help from my peers for developing ideas. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools On Sun, 17 Feb 2008, Tom DeReggi wrote: I concur with Travis, on what we'd like to see happen, but... I'd add that what he asks for may not be realistic or meaningful for MT. As I said several days ago...you will NOT see this function unless you ask MikroTik. [EMAIL PROTECTED]. It does not currently exist in the way you say you want it. IF you want this, then you must ask for it. There are several options I presented for getting some of the data, but you didn't like that idea either. Sounds to me like you are just wanting to complain. -- *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS* *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
Butch, You have misunderstood. (you must have been reading top down) I was responding to Dennis Burgess's post, who was showing interest in possibly getting involved to ask Mikrotik on our behalf, but first asked for clarification on exactly what features we wanted. Its not as clear cut as just asking for something. We ourselves need to be clear about what we want. These are very technical issues. If it were easy, it would have already been done. My post brought up real technical traits that needed to be considered in defining what was best to ask for. You of all people as a consultant should understand these technical differences. I'm not a know-it-all Lone Ranger, I also am looking for feedback from others that may have ideas. Going to MT with an unrealistic request or one that was not fully thought out, would just be a waste of their time. This thread was not meant to point out inferiorities in a protocol or product. It was meant to find ways for innovation and improvement. Believe me, when I got something to ask for, or something to complain about, I have no problem going direct to the manufacturer in a flash, but I need help from my peers for developing ideas. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools > On Sun, 17 Feb 2008, Tom DeReggi wrote: > >>I concur with Travis, on what we'd like to see happen, but... I'd >>add that what he asks for may not be realistic or meaningful for >>MT. > > As I said several days ago...you will NOT see this function unless > you ask MikroTik. [EMAIL PROTECTED] It does not currently > exist in the way you say you want it. IF you want this, then you > must ask for it. There are several options I presented for getting > some of the data, but you didn't like that idea either. Sounds to > me like you are just wanting to complain. > > -- > > *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation * > *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS* > *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * > *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * > *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
On Sun, 17 Feb 2008, Tom DeReggi wrote: >I concur with Travis, on what we'd like to see happen, but... I'd >add that what he asks for may not be realistic or meaningful for >MT. As I said several days ago...you will NOT see this function unless you ask MikroTik. [EMAIL PROTECTED] It does not currently exist in the way you say you want it. IF you want this, then you must ask for it. There are several options I presented for getting some of the data, but you didn't like that idea either. Sounds to me like you are just wanting to complain. -- *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS * *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
I concur with Travis, on what we'd like to see happen, but... I'd add that what he asks for may not be realistic or meaningful for MT. First, remember Testing on Trango is bit different because it is a TDD based system. Its linktest gets run without ARQ utilized in the test. It also has the ability to have the test traffic override user data. So it truly shows the loss/quality/capabilty of the link. Latency is ALWAYS consistent for each packet sent. Its a total different game with CSMA/CA type protocol systems. An 802.11 link shouldn't ever show packetloss (unless severally degrated) because of the re-transmission built into the 802.11 protocol, but has side effects of skyrocketing latency. As well, the test should not be "TCP" based. Having error correction/retransmission at layer3 also defeats the purpose of the test, and would not show the true packet loss of a link. Ultimately, it would be ideal for the test to be a layer2, but might be adequate if it was UDP or ICMP based. Having retransmissions functionality in the test of any type, would always result in no packet loss, and not show the impact of sporatic latency that would be a side effect of a poor quality link. Its very tough to do an accurate packetloss test, with other data on the link at the same time. And very hard to prevent other data from passing on a router type system that can be customized many different ways. linkquality in Time based systems, show by packetloss. linkquality in Wifi based systems, show by varying speed. So what can be done about it? One possibilty is in additional to overall packetloss, show percentage of 802.11 packets (layer2) from test data that were retransmitted at layer2 (underlying packetloss). When we do tests, we do not jsut want to know whether a link is losing packets, we want to know if the ,link is performing optimal and if action should be taken to cure it. For example, THis weekend we had a case where a link that normally works at 54mb modulation, got misaligned and dropped down to 6mb modulation. The link tested out NO packetloss and high link quality, but it was only running at 6mbps!!! If one has adaptive modulation, one needs to consider how to deal with that in the tests. One requirement is to be able to set in the test parameters, what modulation/speed to test at. So the modulation stays fixed during the test. Another option is to have more advanced "latency" figures. For example, pings just shows average latency and peak latency. But what percentage of the pings were severally above the average latency? So after the 1000 packets sent, it could report... average latency, peak latency, but also percentage of packets above 20% above the average, and percentage of packets 100% above average latency, percentage of packets above 200% average latency. Or something to that nature. The idea being, what percentage of packets are not being sent optimally. The only true way to solve this, is to write a test that breaks the native 802.11 mode, and runs the test at the driver level. I guess what I'm saying is... It would nice to see it in the results output listed by Travis. But it may require insight from the MT programmers on what exactly is possible, and what method would be realistic to perform the test. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools Hi, I thought I had already posted what I would like to see: 100 packets passed each direction, 10 times (1600 byte packets). Report back: Distance of link Error rate going from AP to CPE (in % as well as actual packet counts) Error rate going from CPE to AP (in % as well as actual packet counts) Throughput of the link Here is a sample test of a Trango AP to SU linktest: 0 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 1 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 2 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 100 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 3 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 4 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 5 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 6 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 100 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 7 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 8 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 9 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
Hi, I thought I had already posted what I would like to see: 100 packets passed each direction, 10 times (1600 byte packets). Report back: Distance of link Error rate going from AP to CPE (in % as well as actual packet counts) Error rate going from CPE to AP (in % as well as actual packet counts) Throughput of the link Here is a sample test of a Trango AP to SU linktest: 0 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 1 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 2 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 100 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 3 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 4 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 5 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 6 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 100 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 7 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 8 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps 9 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU RxErr] 0 504 ms 5079 Kbps [AP Total nTx] 1000 pkts [AP Total nRx] 1000 pkts [AP Total nRxErr] 0 pkts [SU Total nTx] 1000 pkts [SU Total nRx] 988 pkts [SU Total nRxErr] 0 pkts [AP to SU Error Rate] 1.20 % [SU to AP Error Rate] 0.00 % [Avg of Throughput] 5079 Kbps Something like this (but in a graphical table inside of winbox) would be perfect. :) Travis Microserv Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc wrote: I work very closely with Mikrotik and I do understand what you are saying. Lets do this... What is the exact feature and results that we are looking for. The reason why I ask, is they will ask! This is what I got so far: 10 second test Test reliability of link Overall throughput of the link Packet loss, if any, on the link Overall link quality All of this calculated into ? a Percent? A number? Dennis M. Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri --WISP/Network Support Services-- +1 314-686-1302 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 1:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools I guess the idea is that MT might be monitoring these lists. But you are right, the best approach might be to Email MT directly. But the truth is, Emailing support by an individual will likely not get results. Manufacturers tend to want to see numerous individuals interested in the command or feature to jsutify the effort doing it. By discussing these flaws on a list, is to get all the members familiar with why these tools are needed, and possibly more members will add additional support inquiriies to request these improvements. For one, I'd like to see the Mikrotik Consultants get involved in asking for these features. If the consultants that specialize in the product don't understand what we need, its not that likely that the manufacurer would either. Consultants that represent the manufacturer have much more pull with them, and a better relationship to discuss these things, and most importantly credabilty, to effect change. With Trango, we effect change, and the reason is that we deal direct with the manufacturer and they hear us. With channel support models, like Microtik offers, the manufacturer can lose touch with the end customer. It becomes an even worse problem when the manufacturer sells super cheap (which we like), and the volume grows and each end user's opinion becomes less relevent. One thing I'm very happy about was Mikrotik's support joining as a WISPA vendor member. (Butch, possibly you one also ?) I believe this gets WISP and Manufacturer closer in touch. I'm hoping that these threads are not misinterpretted as manufacturer bashing, but interpretted as communication, that will effect product improvements. The truth is MT probably offers better testing tools than most WIFI product out there. But there is still room for improvements. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools On Wed, 13 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It would test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would then report: have you emailed [EMAIL PROTECTED] with this suggestion? I see what you are wanting
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
I work very closely with Mikrotik and I do understand what you are saying. Lets do this... What is the exact feature and results that we are looking for. The reason why I ask, is they will ask! This is what I got so far: 10 second test Test reliability of link Overall throughput of the link Packet loss, if any, on the link Overall link quality All of this calculated into ? a Percent? A number? Dennis M. Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri --WISP/Network Support Services-- +1 314-686-1302 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 1:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools I guess the idea is that MT might be monitoring these lists. But you are right, the best approach might be to Email MT directly. But the truth is, Emailing support by an individual will likely not get results. Manufacturers tend to want to see numerous individuals interested in the command or feature to jsutify the effort doing it. By discussing these flaws on a list, is to get all the members familiar with why these tools are needed, and possibly more members will add additional support inquiriies to request these improvements. For one, I'd like to see the Mikrotik Consultants get involved in asking for these features. If the consultants that specialize in the product don't understand what we need, its not that likely that the manufacurer would either. Consultants that represent the manufacturer have much more pull with them, and a better relationship to discuss these things, and most importantly credabilty, to effect change. With Trango, we effect change, and the reason is that we deal direct with the manufacturer and they hear us. With channel support models, like Microtik offers, the manufacturer can lose touch with the end customer. It becomes an even worse problem when the manufacturer sells super cheap (which we like), and the volume grows and each end user's opinion becomes less relevent. One thing I'm very happy about was Mikrotik's support joining as a WISPA vendor member. (Butch, possibly you one also ?) I believe this gets WISP and Manufacturer closer in touch. I'm hoping that these threads are not misinterpretted as manufacturer bashing, but interpretted as communication, that will effect product improvements. The truth is MT probably offers better testing tools than most WIFI product out there. But there is still room for improvements. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools > On Wed, 13 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: > >>What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the >>Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It >>would test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would >>then report: > > have you emailed [EMAIL PROTECTED] with this suggestion? I see > what you are wanting. I suggested a way to get the data. If that > isn't enough, then send an email to the folks that can do something > about it. I hate these threads where the only thing that is > accomplished is a dead horse is mauled. > > -- > > *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation * > *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS* > *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * > *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * > *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
I guess the idea is that MT might be monitoring these lists. But you are right, the best approach might be to Email MT directly. But the truth is, Emailing support by an individual will likely not get results. Manufacturers tend to want to see numerous individuals interested in the command or feature to jsutify the effort doing it. By discussing these flaws on a list, is to get all the members familiar with why these tools are needed, and possibly more members will add additional support inquiriies to request these improvements. For one, I'd like to see the Mikrotik Consultants get involved in asking for these features. If the consultants that specialize in the product don't understand what we need, its not that likely that the manufacurer would either. Consultants that represent the manufacturer have much more pull with them, and a better relationship to discuss these things, and most importantly credabilty, to effect change. With Trango, we effect change, and the reason is that we deal direct with the manufacturer and they hear us. With channel support models, like Microtik offers, the manufacturer can lose touch with the end customer. It becomes an even worse problem when the manufacturer sells super cheap (which we like), and the volume grows and each end user's opinion becomes less relevent. One thing I'm very happy about was Mikrotik's support joining as a WISPA vendor member. (Butch, possibly you one also ?) I believe this gets WISP and Manufacturer closer in touch. I'm hoping that these threads are not misinterpretted as manufacturer bashing, but interpretted as communication, that will effect product improvements. The truth is MT probably offers better testing tools than most WIFI product out there. But there is still room for improvements. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools > On Wed, 13 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: > >>What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the >>Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It >>would test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would >>then report: > > have you emailed [EMAIL PROTECTED] with this suggestion? I see > what you are wanting. I suggested a way to get the data. If that > isn't enough, then send an email to the folks that can do something > about it. I hate these threads where the only thing that is > accomplished is a dead horse is mauled. > > -- > > *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation * > *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS* > *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * > *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * > *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
It has not. We have been using SNMP proactive monitoring for years. It takes more custom programming to make the SNMP data as realtime as one needs it to be viewed. And that is a much more complicated issue, as it requires consideration of a whole management platform and how that data is recovered in realtime in relation to realtime changes made to the link. Sometimes these changes are syncronized to the 4-5 seconds that that change was made. Just locating a specific radio in a list of 300-500 radio links in a remote management/monitoring platform is a challenge. It can take 10 minutes jsut to identify you are looking at the right radio. Plus if you pull data in realtime, there is also a significant bandwdith use. It is jsut plain straight forward to have a tool built into the radio that one is already logged into and working on, that does Click Button, test runs. 10 seconds pass. Returns results, "This is the performance of the link". And have that data be detailed and complete. Packetloss, error rate, throughput, side of link the packets were lost on, etc. Its that simple. Even if I bought into your SNMP arguement, I'd argue the SNMP monitoring solution is NOT what it needs to be today. Don;t say HPOpen voew nobody can afford it, and don;t say MRTG and RDDTOOL, as thats months of custom programming to get it wher eit needs to be, and what we use now. But I will say, there is a huge oppoortunity for consultants and programmers to help write these platforms for WISPs. For example... Dude, is a cool Mikrotik Monitoring tool. It would be really easy to add a "test" button to a configured radio that would launch a test tool on the remote Mikrotik radio, and report back the results. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools > On Wed, 13 Feb 2008, Tom DeReggi wrote: > >>The problem with stats is they often are displayed as total loss >>from the beginning of time. Not specific to an exact period, of >>controled usage. What difference does a particular setting on a >>radio have, and the ability to measure it after the change nad >>before the next one. This is why ON-Demand test tools are useful, >>that home in on a predfined time period, and isntantly viewable. > > This is why SNMP is available. > >>Yes the data is out there, to enable writing the tool. The question >>is... Why hasn't it been written yet? > > It has. SNMP. That is called proactive monitoring. > > -- > > *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation * > *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS* > *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * > *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * > *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
I think everyone is missing Travis's point. Everyone is trying to find the work around, or partial solution, using the tools a product already has. Sure all these tools help. But they do NOT replace a tool that is better that someone has had in their hands for years proving the value of that tool. There are reasons why products Like Trango have been so popular with the larger scale WISP commmunitiy, and their secret is they give the professional tools that make just that little bit more difference that matters, for a WISP to detect, resolve, and certify network connections inthe quickest manner. If Mikrotik wants to be in the same league as the big boys, they need to make new better big boy tools, not only hold on to the existing tools they have that offer 70% of the solution. This is not meant to be a comparision of vendors or an attack on Mikrotik. I think Mikrotik has made huge strides in this industry, and really is starting to have a very feature rich product, that can't be ignored. I really respect what they have accomplished, and amazing value. But they are still missing the boat in some areas/tools. What Travis wants is a quicktool to certify a link, that his staff can rely on without individual interpretation. the Trango Linktest tool, gives exactly that. Its within Mikrotik's power to add those tools. Or atleast get closer to them. The question is whether they truly understand why the tools are needed, or whether they just don't have the time to make them, or if there is some technical barrier that prevents them from being made. The first step is making them understand why it is needed. Second step is making it clear exactly what it is that is needed. And third is getting them to make time to make it. And if we can accomplish that, then Mikrotik will just be a better product because of it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools > Don't you see real time active rissi etc when you look into the ap's > interface listing all the clients? > > > Travis Johnson wrote: >> What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the >> Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It would >> test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would then report: >> >> distance of the link (based on time calculations) >> error rate going from AP to CPE (%) >> error rate going from CPE to AP (%) >> Calculated throughput based on those results >> >> This simple tool has proven invaluable with our Trango system. Our 1st >> level techs can login to the AP and do a "linktest" on a customer's >> radio and know in 10 seconds if there is an RF problem or something >> else. Having to look at CCQ numbers, packet frames vs. hardware frames, >> etc. is way too complicated for a 1st level tech. >> >> Yes, we monitor and graph signal levels, bytes, packets, errors, etc. on >> every customer we have now... but that simple 10 second test makes life >> much, much easier. >> >> Travis >> Microserv >> >> Butch Evans wrote: >>> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: >>> >>> >>>> With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" >>>> that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and >>>> measuring on both sides the loss: >>>> >>> >>> With Mikrotik, you have stats for the wireless link as well. You >>> can double-click an entry under WIRELESS->Registration-Table and you >>> have a stats tab that will show you tx and rx packets, bytes, >>> frames, frame bytes, hardware frame bytes and frames. The >>> difference between packets and frames is loss on the link. I agree >>> that it would be nice to have a calculated value displayed, but the >>> information is available. The packet data is available via snmp as >>> well, though the hardware frame data is not. You can get (from >>> snmp) the OID that includes errors (in and out) on the wireless link >>> as well as other interfaces. The OID is found with: "/interface >>> print oid". Is this what you are wanting? >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
I would be willing to pay for it, if it does what I want... :) Travis Microserv Randy Cosby wrote: Good point. Can you give an estimate of what you think it would cost? Anyone else out there interested enough in the feature to put a "bounty" on it, so a bunch of us can pitch in, Butch can get paid, and it can be released to the community? Personally, I do not use mikrotik for wireless (yet) but would be willing to pitch in. Randy Butch Evans wrote: On Thu, 14 Feb 2008, Randy Cosby wrote: Not having played with scripting much, is this something that could be scripted? Hmm...I'll play with this a bit. Of course, as a consultant, whether the result of the work will turn out to be "free" is a function of how much time it takes to develop, if it can even be done. I am fairly confident that it can be done (sort of). WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
Good point. Can you give an estimate of what you think it would cost? Anyone else out there interested enough in the feature to put a "bounty" on it, so a bunch of us can pitch in, Butch can get paid, and it can be released to the community? Personally, I do not use mikrotik for wireless (yet) but would be willing to pitch in. Randy Butch Evans wrote: > On Thu, 14 Feb 2008, Randy Cosby wrote: > > >> Not having played with scripting much, is this something that could >> be scripted? >> > > Hmm...I'll play with this a bit. Of course, as a consultant, > whether the result of the work will turn out to be "free" is a > function of how much time it takes to develop, if it can even be > done. I am fairly confident that it can be done (sort of). > > -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc office: 435-773-6071 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008, Randy Cosby wrote: >Not having played with scripting much, is this something that could >be scripted? Hmm...I'll play with this a bit. Of course, as a consultant, whether the result of the work will turn out to be "free" is a function of how much time it takes to develop, if it can even be done. I am fairly confident that it can be done (sort of). -- *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS * *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
Not having played with scripting much, is this something that could be scripted? I also use trangos and the linktest is a very valuable tool. RSSI doesn't tell you enough if you have an antenna that has been skewed by wind homeowner, for example. Butch Evans wrote: > On Wed, 13 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: > > >> What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the >> Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It >> would test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would >> then report: >> > > have you emailed [EMAIL PROTECTED] with this suggestion? I see > what you are wanting. I suggested a way to get the data. If that > isn't enough, then send an email to the folks that can do something > about it. I hate these threads where the only thing that is > accomplished is a dead horse is mauled. > > -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc office: 435-773-6071 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: >What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the >Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It >would test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would >then report: have you emailed [EMAIL PROTECTED] with this suggestion? I see what you are wanting. I suggested a way to get the data. If that isn't enough, then send an email to the folks that can do something about it. I hate these threads where the only thing that is accomplished is a dead horse is mauled. -- *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS * *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008, Tom DeReggi wrote: >The problem with stats is they often are displayed as total loss >from the beginning of time. Not specific to an exact period, of >controled usage. What difference does a particular setting on a >radio have, and the ability to measure it after the change nad >before the next one. This is why ON-Demand test tools are useful, >that home in on a predfined time period, and isntantly viewable. This is why SNMP is available. >Yes the data is out there, to enable writing the tool. The question >is... Why hasn't it been written yet? It has. SNMP. That is called proactive monitoring. -- *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS * *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
I think you hit this on the head Travis. "there is no real "magic" number... is all relative." I wish I had a magic method of telling when things were going well on a link. I just have to be a geek about it and have a general "feel" for what is good/bad. Maybe some of these vendors could get together and figure out a standard of performance. (like a MPG rating for cars, flawed but a decent guideline) But then that would make it easier to compare brands. ryan _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools Yes... but RSSI only shows so much. We have links with good RSSI that have a high error rates. Even the CCQ in MT doesn't tell you everything, because there is no real "magic" number... is all relative. Travis George Rogato wrote: Don't you see real time active rissi etc when you look into the ap's interface listing all the clients? Travis Johnson wrote: What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It would test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would then report: distance of the link (based on time calculations) error rate going from AP to CPE (%) error rate going from CPE to AP (%) Calculated throughput based on those results This simple tool has proven invaluable with our Trango system. Our 1st level techs can login to the AP and do a "linktest" on a customer's radio and know in 10 seconds if there is an RF problem or something else. Having to look at CCQ numbers, packet frames vs. hardware frames, etc. is way too complicated for a 1st level tech. Yes, we monitor and graph signal levels, bytes, packets, errors, etc. on every customer we have now... but that simple 10 second test makes life much, much easier. Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and measuring on both sides the loss: With Mikrotik, you have stats for the wireless link as well. You can double-click an entry under WIRELESS->Registration-Table and you have a stats tab that will show you tx and rx packets, bytes, frames, frame bytes, hardware frame bytes and frames. The difference between packets and frames is loss on the link. I agree that it would be nice to have a calculated value displayed, but the information is available. The packet data is available via snmp as well, though the hardware frame data is not. You can get (from snmp) the OID that includes errors (in and out) on the wireless link as well as other interfaces. The OID is found with: "/interface print oid". Is this what you are wanting? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
Yes... but RSSI only shows so much. We have links with good RSSI that have a high error rates. Even the CCQ in MT doesn't tell you everything, because there is no real "magic" number... is all relative. Travis George Rogato wrote: Don't you see real time active rissi etc when you look into the ap's interface listing all the clients? Travis Johnson wrote: What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It would test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would then report: distance of the link (based on time calculations) error rate going from AP to CPE (%) error rate going from CPE to AP (%) Calculated throughput based on those results This simple tool has proven invaluable with our Trango system. Our 1st level techs can login to the AP and do a "linktest" on a customer's radio and know in 10 seconds if there is an RF problem or something else. Having to look at CCQ numbers, packet frames vs. hardware frames, etc. is way too complicated for a 1st level tech. Yes, we monitor and graph signal levels, bytes, packets, errors, etc. on every customer we have now... but that simple 10 second test makes life much, much easier. Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and measuring on both sides the loss: With Mikrotik, you have stats for the wireless link as well. You can double-click an entry under WIRELESS->Registration-Table and you have a stats tab that will show you tx and rx packets, bytes, frames, frame bytes, hardware frame bytes and frames. The difference between packets and frames is loss on the link. I agree that it would be nice to have a calculated value displayed, but the information is available. The packet data is available via snmp as well, though the hardware frame data is not. You can get (from snmp) the OID that includes errors (in and out) on the wireless link as well as other interfaces. The OID is found with: "/interface print oid". Is this what you are wanting? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
Don't you see real time active rissi etc when you look into the ap's interface listing all the clients? Travis Johnson wrote: > What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the > Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It would > test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would then report: > > distance of the link (based on time calculations) > error rate going from AP to CPE (%) > error rate going from CPE to AP (%) > Calculated throughput based on those results > > This simple tool has proven invaluable with our Trango system. Our 1st > level techs can login to the AP and do a "linktest" on a customer's > radio and know in 10 seconds if there is an RF problem or something > else. Having to look at CCQ numbers, packet frames vs. hardware frames, > etc. is way too complicated for a 1st level tech. > > Yes, we monitor and graph signal levels, bytes, packets, errors, etc. on > every customer we have now... but that simple 10 second test makes life > much, much easier. > > Travis > Microserv > > Butch Evans wrote: >> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: >> >> >>> With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" >>> that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and >>> measuring on both sides the loss: >>> >> >> With Mikrotik, you have stats for the wireless link as well. You >> can double-click an entry under WIRELESS->Registration-Table and you >> have a stats tab that will show you tx and rx packets, bytes, >> frames, frame bytes, hardware frame bytes and frames. The >> difference between packets and frames is loss on the link. I agree >> that it would be nice to have a calculated value displayed, but the >> information is available. The packet data is available via snmp as >> well, though the hardware frame data is not. You can get (from >> snmp) the OID that includes errors (in and out) on the wireless link >> as well as other interfaces. The OID is found with: "/interface >> print oid". Is this what you are wanting? >> >> > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It would test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would then report: distance of the link (based on time calculations) error rate going from AP to CPE (%) error rate going from CPE to AP (%) Calculated throughput based on those results This simple tool has proven invaluable with our Trango system. Our 1st level techs can login to the AP and do a "linktest" on a customer's radio and know in 10 seconds if there is an RF problem or something else. Having to look at CCQ numbers, packet frames vs. hardware frames, etc. is way too complicated for a 1st level tech. Yes, we monitor and graph signal levels, bytes, packets, errors, etc. on every customer we have now... but that simple 10 second test makes life much, much easier. Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and measuring on both sides the loss: With Mikrotik, you have stats for the wireless link as well. You can double-click an entry under WIRELESS->Registration-Table and you have a stats tab that will show you tx and rx packets, bytes, frames, frame bytes, hardware frame bytes and frames. The difference between packets and frames is loss on the link. I agree that it would be nice to have a calculated value displayed, but the information is available. The packet data is available via snmp as well, though the hardware frame data is not. You can get (from snmp) the OID that includes errors (in and out) on the wireless link as well as other interfaces. The OID is found with: "/interface print oid". Is this what you are wanting? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
Gather these stats with SNMP or a screen scrape. MRTG/Cacti/InsertNameHere already does this. 1. gather datapoint1 2. Wait X time. 3. gather datapoint2 4. perform basic math (datapoint1-datapoint2)/time. I use the graphs I produce to show me when a change I made screwed something up. It might take more than an hour to show me, but when I make a traffic graph "bucket" \_/ or an error graph plateau I know I did something right or wrong. Ie: www.tranzeofaq.com/images/whoops.png I also note all of my changes in a private blog (I used to use a notepad but I never have it when I am at my laptop in some coffee shop making a change). 2 weeks ago I made a change, I did not think it affected my network in a bad way until odd problems started creeping up. Sure enough, the graphs I had correlated to the 5 minute increment, the change I had noted in my private network blog. Butt saved. ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools The problem with stats is they often are displayed as total loss from the beginning of time. Not specific to an exact period, of controled usage. What difference does a particular setting on a radio have, and the ability to measure it after the change nad before the next one. This is why ON-Demand test tools are useful, that home in on a predfined time period, and isntantly viewable. Yes the data is out there, to enable writing the tool. The question is... Why hasn't it been written yet? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Victoria Proffer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools > Since Trango offers SNMP, could it be programmed to work with the MT? > We are using the Dude with our Trangos and that works very well. > > Victoria > > On 2/13/08, Butch Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: >> >> >With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" >> >that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and >> >measuring on both sides the loss: >> >> With Mikrotik, you have stats for the wireless link as well. You >> can double-click an entry under WIRELESS->Registration-Table and you >> have a stats tab that will show you tx and rx packets, bytes, >> frames, frame bytes, hardware frame bytes and frames. The >> difference between packets and frames is loss on the link. I agree >> that it would be nice to have a calculated value displayed, but the >> information is available. The packet data is available via snmp as >> well, though the hardware frame data is not. You can get (from >> snmp) the OID that includes errors (in and out) on the wireless link >> as well as other interfaces. The OID is found with: "/interface >> print oid". Is this what you are wanting? >> >> -- >> >> *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation * >> *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS * >> *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * >> *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * >> *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > -- > Visit us @ > www.StLBroadband.com > 314-974-5600 > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
There are a number of things to do to gauge the quality of a link with MT. CCQ is one. Signal levels, as well as Ping tests will give you most of what you wish. All three put together will tell you. Also, a ping test over a period of time is helpful as well. Dennis M. Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri --WISP/Network Support Services-- +1 314-686-1302 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 5:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools The problem with stats is they often are displayed as total loss from the beginning of time. Not specific to an exact period, of controled usage. What difference does a particular setting on a radio have, and the ability to measure it after the change nad before the next one. This is why ON-Demand test tools are useful, that home in on a predfined time period, and isntantly viewable. Yes the data is out there, to enable writing the tool. The question is... Why hasn't it been written yet? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Victoria Proffer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools > Since Trango offers SNMP, could it be programmed to work with the MT? > We are using the Dude with our Trangos and that works very well. > > Victoria > > On 2/13/08, Butch Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: >> >> >With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" >> >that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and >> >measuring on both sides the loss: >> >> With Mikrotik, you have stats for the wireless link as well. You >> can double-click an entry under WIRELESS->Registration-Table and you >> have a stats tab that will show you tx and rx packets, bytes, >> frames, frame bytes, hardware frame bytes and frames. The >> difference between packets and frames is loss on the link. I agree >> that it would be nice to have a calculated value displayed, but the >> information is available. The packet data is available via snmp as >> well, though the hardware frame data is not. You can get (from >> snmp) the OID that includes errors (in and out) on the wireless link >> as well as other interfaces. The OID is found with: "/interface >> print oid". Is this what you are wanting? >> >> -- >> >> *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation * >> *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS * >> *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * >> *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * >> *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > -- > Visit us @ > www.StLBroadband.com > 314-974-5600 > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
The problem with stats is they often are displayed as total loss from the beginning of time. Not specific to an exact period, of controled usage. What difference does a particular setting on a radio have, and the ability to measure it after the change nad before the next one. This is why ON-Demand test tools are useful, that home in on a predfined time period, and isntantly viewable. Yes the data is out there, to enable writing the tool. The question is... Why hasn't it been written yet? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Victoria Proffer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools > Since Trango offers SNMP, could it be programmed to work with the MT? > We are using the Dude with our Trangos and that works very well. > > Victoria > > On 2/13/08, Butch Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: >> >> >With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" >> >that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and >> >measuring on both sides the loss: >> >> With Mikrotik, you have stats for the wireless link as well. You >> can double-click an entry under WIRELESS->Registration-Table and you >> have a stats tab that will show you tx and rx packets, bytes, >> frames, frame bytes, hardware frame bytes and frames. The >> difference between packets and frames is loss on the link. I agree >> that it would be nice to have a calculated value displayed, but the >> information is available. The packet data is available via snmp as >> well, though the hardware frame data is not. You can get (from >> snmp) the OID that includes errors (in and out) on the wireless link >> as well as other interfaces. The OID is found with: "/interface >> print oid". Is this what you are wanting? >> >> -- >> >> *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation * >> *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS * >> *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * >> *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * >> *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > -- > Visit us @ > www.StLBroadband.com > 314-974-5600 > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
Since Trango offers SNMP, could it be programmed to work with the MT? We are using the Dude with our Trangos and that works very well. Victoria On 2/13/08, Butch Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: > > >With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" > >that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and > >measuring on both sides the loss: > > With Mikrotik, you have stats for the wireless link as well. You > can double-click an entry under WIRELESS->Registration-Table and you > have a stats tab that will show you tx and rx packets, bytes, > frames, frame bytes, hardware frame bytes and frames. The > difference between packets and frames is loss on the link. I agree > that it would be nice to have a calculated value displayed, but the > information is available. The packet data is available via snmp as > well, though the hardware frame data is not. You can get (from > snmp) the OID that includes errors (in and out) on the wireless link > as well as other interfaces. The OID is found with: "/interface > print oid". Is this what you are wanting? > > -- > > *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation * > *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS * > *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * > *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * > *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Visit us @ www.StLBroadband.com 314-974-5600 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
If you want to do that with star and I'm sure mt and others have this as well. You just simply open up the ping utility on the ap and ping the client. You can select your packet sizes as well. And another thing we do, is to test throughput from the su to the ap or beyond with the built in bandwidth tester. Usually I test both directions, from the ap to the su and from the su to the ap. Travis Johnson wrote: > Hi, > > With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" that > shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and measuring on > both sides the loss: > > [suid] 2 [pkt len] 1600 bytes [# of pkts per cycle] 100 [cycle] 10 > > 0 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 96 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU > RxErr] 0 501 ms 5007 Kbps > 1 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 93 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU > RxErr] 0 501 ms 4930 Kbps > 2 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 98 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU > RxErr] 0 501 ms 5058 Kbps > 3 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 97 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 97 [SU > RxErr] 0 501 ms 5033 Kbps > 4 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 94 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 97 [SU > RxErr] 0 500 ms 4966 Kbps > 5 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 92 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 96 [SU > RxErr] 0 500 ms 4915 Kbps > 6 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 96 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 100 [SU > RxErr] 0 501 ms 5007 Kbps > 7 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 97 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU > RxErr] 0 500 ms 5043 Kbps > 8 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 96 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU > RxErr] 0 500 ms 5017 Kbps > 9 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 98 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU > RxErr] 0 500 ms 5068 Kbps > > [AP Total nTx]1000 pkts > [AP Total nRx]957 pkts > [AP Total nRxErr] 0 pkts > > [SU Total nTx]1000 pkts > [SU Total nRx]981 pkts > [SU Total nRxErr] 0 pkts > > [AP to SU Error Rate] 1.90 % > [SU to AP Error Rate] 4.30 % > > [Avg of Throughput] 5004 Kbps > > Something like this would be VERY helpful if you could right-click on > the wireless link in the registrations tab and run something like this. :) > > Travis > Microserv > > Anthony Will wrote: >> Under tools in winbox there are several solutions from ping floods to >> torch (a per stream traffic analyzer), under the interface you can look >> at the status tab to get CCQ (quality) readings to exactly how much >> traffic is being compressed by hardware data compression. In a terminal >> it would be under /tool or /interface wireless. >> Is there something specific you are looking for? >> >> Anthony Will >> Broadband Corp. >> http://www.broadband-mn.com >> >> >> >> Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc wrote: >> >>> What kind of information do you need? >>> >>> >>> Dennis M. Burgess >>> Mikrotik Certified Consultant >>> Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri >>> --WISP/Network Support Services-- >>> +1 314-686-1302 >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 12:52 PM >>> To: WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Subject: [WISPA] MT tools >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Has anyone found any good tools to do troubleshooting on Mikrotik >>> wireless links? Many other vendors provide tools (i.e. Trango has "su >>> ping", "testrflink" and "linktest") that allow testing of an individual >>> wireless link directly from the AP. The only thing I have found with >>> Mikrotik is their bandwidth test and it doesn't show much information. >>> >>> Any help or ideas are appreciated. >>> >>> Travis >>> Microserv >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: >With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" >that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and >measuring on both sides the loss: With Mikrotik, you have stats for the wireless link as well. You can double-click an entry under WIRELESS->Registration-Table and you have a stats tab that will show you tx and rx packets, bytes, frames, frame bytes, hardware frame bytes and frames. The difference between packets and frames is loss on the link. I agree that it would be nice to have a calculated value displayed, but the information is available. The packet data is available via snmp as well, though the hardware frame data is not. You can get (from snmp) the OID that includes errors (in and out) on the wireless link as well as other interfaces. The OID is found with: "/interface print oid". Is this what you are wanting? -- *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS * *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
Hi, With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and measuring on both sides the loss: [suid] 2 [pkt len] 1600 bytes [# of pkts per cycle] 100 [cycle] 10 0 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 96 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU RxErr] 0 501 ms 5007 Kbps 1 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 93 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU RxErr] 0 501 ms 4930 Kbps 2 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 98 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU RxErr] 0 501 ms 5058 Kbps 3 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 97 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 97 [SU RxErr] 0 501 ms 5033 Kbps 4 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 94 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 97 [SU RxErr] 0 500 ms 4966 Kbps 5 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 92 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 96 [SU RxErr] 0 500 ms 4915 Kbps 6 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 96 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 100 [SU RxErr] 0 501 ms 5007 Kbps 7 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 97 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU RxErr] 0 500 ms 5043 Kbps 8 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 96 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU RxErr] 0 500 ms 5017 Kbps 9 [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 98 [AP RxErr] 0 [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU RxErr] 0 500 ms 5068 Kbps [AP Total nTx] 1000 pkts [AP Total nRx] 957 pkts [AP Total nRxErr] 0 pkts [SU Total nTx] 1000 pkts [SU Total nRx] 981 pkts [SU Total nRxErr] 0 pkts [AP to SU Error Rate] 1.90 % [SU to AP Error Rate] 4.30 % [Avg of Throughput] 5004 Kbps Something like this would be VERY helpful if you could right-click on the wireless link in the registrations tab and run something like this. :) Travis Microserv Anthony Will wrote: Under tools in winbox there are several solutions from ping floods to torch (a per stream traffic analyzer), under the interface you can look at the status tab to get CCQ (quality) readings to exactly how much traffic is being compressed by hardware data compression. In a terminal it would be under /tool or /interface wireless. Is there something specific you are looking for? Anthony Will Broadband Corp. http://www.broadband-mn.com Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc wrote: What kind of information do you need? Dennis M. Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri --WISP/Network Support Services-- +1 314-686-1302 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 12:52 PM To: WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] MT tools Hi, Has anyone found any good tools to do troubleshooting on Mikrotik wireless links? Many other vendors provide tools (i.e. Trango has "su ping", "testrflink" and "linktest") that allow testing of an individual wireless link directly from the AP. The only thing I have found with Mikrotik is their bandwidth test and it doesn't show much information. Any help or ideas are appreciated. Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
Under tools in winbox there are several solutions from ping floods to torch (a per stream traffic analyzer), under the interface you can look at the status tab to get CCQ (quality) readings to exactly how much traffic is being compressed by hardware data compression. In a terminal it would be under /tool or /interface wireless. Is there something specific you are looking for? Anthony Will Broadband Corp. http://www.broadband-mn.com Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc wrote: > What kind of information do you need? > > > Dennis M. Burgess > Mikrotik Certified Consultant > Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri > --WISP/Network Support Services-- > +1 314-686-1302 > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Travis Johnson > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 12:52 PM > To: WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [WISPA] MT tools > > Hi, > > Has anyone found any good tools to do troubleshooting on Mikrotik > wireless links? Many other vendors provide tools (i.e. Trango has "su > ping", "testrflink" and "linktest") that allow testing of an individual > wireless link directly from the AP. The only thing I have found with > Mikrotik is their bandwidth test and it doesn't show much information. > > Any help or ideas are appreciated. > > Travis > Microserv > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT tools
What kind of information do you need? Dennis M. Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri --WISP/Network Support Services-- +1 314-686-1302 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 12:52 PM To: WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] MT tools Hi, Has anyone found any good tools to do troubleshooting on Mikrotik wireless links? Many other vendors provide tools (i.e. Trango has "su ping", "testrflink" and "linktest") that allow testing of an individual wireless link directly from the AP. The only thing I have found with Mikrotik is their bandwidth test and it doesn't show much information. Any help or ideas are appreciated. Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] MT tools
Hi, Has anyone found any good tools to do troubleshooting on Mikrotik wireless links? Many other vendors provide tools (i.e. Trango has "su ping", "testrflink" and "linktest") that allow testing of an individual wireless link directly from the AP. The only thing I have found with Mikrotik is their bandwidth test and it doesn't show much information. Any help or ideas are appreciated. Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
