Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
Hi Alan, We're in the process of doing this too. We're going to run a bridged backbone (mostly) with routing AP's. Mikrotik in our case. For IP space we went to ARIN and got our own (two upstreams on opposite sides of the network). We were able to get 8 class c's this way. We're also subnetting a LOT of network space. When we run out of space on an AP we'll just add another subnet to that AP and route it as well. Shouldn't be too big of a deal. Hope that helps! marlon - Original Message - From: Alan Bryant a...@gtekcommunications.com To: wireless@wispa.org; motor...@afmug.com Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:08 PM Subject: [WISPA] Network Redesign We are in the process of redesigning our entire network from our upstream all the way to the customer. Currently everything is bridged and on the same physical network. Obviously we are wanting to change this for many reasons. Subnetting it out on the private side isn't a problem, but the public side is. We are leaning towards having routeros based routers at every tower and subnetting all the way to the AP's. We don't have enough public IP's to allow enough room for much growth. My main question is, what is the best course of action once you run out of IP's at an AP or tower? What is the most efficient way of bringing more IP's in without renumbering everything? I appreciate any and all responses on or off list. Let me know if more information is needed to give better answers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Hi Alan, We're in the process of doing this too. We're going to run a bridged backbone (mostly) with routing AP's. Mikrotik in our case. For IP space we went to ARIN and got our own (two upstreams on opposite sides of the network). We were able to get 8 class c's this way. We're also subnetting a LOT of network space. When we run out of space on an AP we'll just add another subnet to that AP and route it as well. Shouldn't be too big of a deal. Hope that helps! marlonMarlon (and others), Thanks a lot for your reply. You confirmed what I suspected. Like I said, I had never encountered this before. Good luck in your redesign. -- Alan Bryant | Systems Administrator Gtek Computers Wireless, LLC. a...@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz O 361-777-1400 | F 361-777-1405 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
One way to conserve IP space is to route a subnet to each tower rather than each AP. Have every AP plugged into a switch at the tower, and then into a router before it leaves that tower. That way you can use up the entire subnet before adding another. ;) Travis Microserv Alan Bryant wrote: On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Hi Alan, We're in the process of doing this too. We're going to run a bridged backbone (mostly) with routing AP's. Mikrotik in our case. For IP space we went to ARIN and got our own (two upstreams on opposite sides of the network). We were able to get 8 class c's this way. We're also subnetting a LOT of network space. When we run out of space on an AP we'll just add another subnet to that AP and route it as well. Shouldn't be too big of a deal. Hope that helps! marlonMarlon (and others), Thanks a lot for your reply. You confirmed what I suspected. Like I said, I had never encountered this before. Good luck in your redesign. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
Would you leave the AP in bridge mode and let the tower router take care of the routing? On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: One way to conserve IP space is to route a subnet to each tower rather than each AP. Have every AP plugged into a switch at the tower, and then into a router before it leaves that tower. That way you can use up the entire subnet before adding another. ;) Travis Microserv Alan Bryant wrote: On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Hi Alan, We're in the process of doing this too. We're going to run a bridged backbone (mostly) with routing AP's. Mikrotik in our case. For IP space we went to ARIN and got our own (two upstreams on opposite sides of the network). We were able to get 8 class c's this way. We're also subnetting a LOT of network space. When we run out of space on an AP we'll just add another subnet to that AP and route it as well. Shouldn't be too big of a deal. Hope that helps! marlonMarlon (and others), Thanks a lot for your reply. You confirmed what I suspected. Like I said, I had never encountered this before. Good luck in your redesign. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
Yes. Travis RickG wrote: Would you leave the AP in bridge mode and let the tower router take care of the routing? On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: One way to conserve IP space is to route a subnet to each tower rather than each AP. Have every AP plugged into a switch at the tower, and then into a router before it leaves that tower. That way you can use up the entire subnet before adding another. ;) Travis Microserv Alan Bryant wrote: On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Hi Alan, We're in the process of doing this too. We're going to run a bridged backbone (mostly) with routing AP's. Mikrotik in our case. For IP space we went to ARIN and got our own (two upstreams on opposite sides of the network). We were able to get 8 class c's this way. We're also subnetting a LOT of network space. When we run out of space on an AP we'll just add another subnet to that AP and route it as well. Shouldn't be too big of a deal. Hope that helps! marlonMarlon (and others), Thanks a lot for your reply. You confirmed what I suspected. Like I said, I had never encountered this before. Good luck in your redesign. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
We use 10./8 for the network. Then, route single publics out to the end points (yes, the 10's show up in public trace routes and time out, shoot me!) PPPoE would take care of that and was the plan to move to. MT has not implemented pppoe forwarding as yet, so we have a choice of having many concentrator points, or dumping 30 MT routers for something else. Both are less then ideal options. For now, 1:1 NAT at the core gateway and routing publics works. We also route the inside client networks, Only 1 point of NAT. On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Alan Bryant a...@gtekcommunications.com wrote: We are in the process of redesigning our entire network from our upstream all the way to the customer. Currently everything is bridged and on the same physical network. Obviously we are wanting to change this for many reasons. Subnetting it out on the private side isn't a problem, but the public side is. We are leaning towards having routeros based routers at every tower and subnetting all the way to the AP's. We don't have enough public IP's to allow enough room for much growth. My main question is, what is the best course of action once you run out of IP's at an AP or tower? What is the most efficient way of bringing more IP's in without renumbering everything? I appreciate any and all responses on or off list. Let me know if more information is needed to give better answers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Network Redesign
We are in the process of redesigning our entire network from our upstream all the way to the customer. Currently everything is bridged and on the same physical network. Obviously we are wanting to change this for many reasons. Subnetting it out on the private side isn't a problem, but the public side is. We are leaning towards having routeros based routers at every tower and subnetting all the way to the AP's. We don't have enough public IP's to allow enough room for much growth. My main question is, what is the best course of action once you run out of IP's at an AP or tower? What is the most efficient way of bringing more IP's in without renumbering everything? I appreciate any and all responses on or off list. Let me know if more information is needed to give better answers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On 6/25/2010 2:08 PM, Alan Bryant wrote: We are in the process of redesigning our entire network from our upstream all the way to the customer. Currently everything is bridged and on the same physical network. I'm not quite understanding. That's not the most efficient - you could have a lot of noise on your backbone, but if that's not a major concern yet, you can actually do this simply by going w/network 10 and masking it 255.0.0.0 You'll prolly never run out of space that way either, although there's only so many nanoseconds in a second and so much collision detection and retransmitting an ethernet bus can handle. Obviously we are wanting to change this for many reasons. Subnetting it out on the private side isn't a problem, That's what I'm not getting. What does 'out' mean? Does this mean it's out of the question? Does it mean it is out, as in, having already been deployed? Or does it mean it won't be a problem for you to deploy it? but the public side is. I really don't understand this. how many public IPs do you need? are you intending on doing 1:1 NAT for all of the CPEs? - -- Bradley D. Thornton Manager Network Services NorthTech Computer TEL: +1.760.666.2703 (US) TEL: +44.702.405.1909 (UK) http://NorthTech.US -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQEcBAEBAwAGBQJMJSPDAAoJEE1wgkIhr9j3NGsH/37GinAc1ytHEKqeOWpVrovS 3lW9a1chdFquydDJfzCb4m1B7jorwAz+GpIPljd7r2qhAmRTCOXOz54xM7LZy0Ft rcWkuA7+zQbIyfjEKthHPbtaLPbqsp9gd5YCktqIrDtpot62dvf0aW5OBaR5LLEy a2SGS2cC7Fw0Od5+GeYG0x0qNN8bIOx1aHUY+A789zg4I3oFeL5ooPsXYDLQRJGK uklNHd3akl8M37c25PSkllPYsoOALSeorQNvplr8lqAWP6pT1DqP2H75wAyPoRyz BPv6uMi2Sd/V5Go6Y3fAXt2q9jJKQj9j2Bo0ZXcDezcdiSnpzx48o+R61kmau6w= =pw6D -END PGP SIGNATURE- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Bradley D. Thornton brad...@northtech.us wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Currently everything is bridged and on the same physical network. I'm not quite understanding. That's not the most efficient - I realize it is not the most efficient, that is why we are trying to redesign our network now, before it gets even more out of hand and hard to manage. Obviously we are wanting to change this for many reasons. Subnetting it out on the private side isn't a problem, That's what I'm not getting. What does 'out' mean? Does this mean it's out of the question? Does it mean it is out, as in, having already been deployed? Or does it mean it won't be a problem for you to deploy it? Perhaps my choice of words was not the best now that i read back over my post. I'm saying redesigning the IP routing for the Private IP's (Management IP's) will not be a problem as we can use, as you said earlier, 10.0.0.0/8 and probably never run out. but the public side is. I really don't understand this. As public IP addresses are limited and at times hard to come by, we are trying to use them as efficiently as possbile, however, we basically have a /24, 2 /22's, and a /23 allocated to us right now. I have decided upon a subnet for every AP that includes some room for growth, but not a lot. What I am not sure of is how to add a new subnet to an AP once it runs out of space. Do I just point a new subnet to that AP and I'm fine having multiple subnets on the AP? Do I need to renumber to make the current subnet larger? how many public IPs do you need? are you intending on doing 1:1 NAT for all of the CPEs? We do not currently do NAT except for customers who only have one computer and then our CPE does it. We are not worried about getting more IP space, we can get it from our upstream until ARIN is satisfied with our multi-homed arrangement or our current IP usage. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Alan Bryant a...@gtekcommunications.com wrote: As public IP addresses are limited and at times hard to come by, we are trying to use them as efficiently as possbile, however, we basically have a /24, 2 /22's, and a /23 allocated to us right now. I have decided upon a subnet for every AP that includes some room for growth, but not a lot. What I am not sure of is how to add a new subnet to an AP once it runs out of space. Do I just point a new subnet to that AP and I'm fine having multiple subnets on the AP? Do I need to renumber to make the current subnet larger? Just add a new subnet (and appropriate routing) and you should be able to use the new IPs. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
On Fri, 2010-06-25 at 16:08 -0500, Alan Bryant wrote: We are leaning towards having routeros based routers at every tower and subnetting all the way to the AP's. We don't have enough public IP's to allow enough room for much growth. My main question is, what is the best course of action once you run out of IP's at an AP or tower? What is the most efficient way of bringing more IP's in without renumbering everything? This depends a little on whether the space you currently own is contiguous or not AND just how tight the available space is. It is usually easier to just add another subnet to an interface when you need more space. Of course, if you have the luxury of knowing the historical growth on the tower, then you will have a good idea how much time a /27 will last you (for example). There really is no need to completely renumber unless you have to return some IP space to your provider. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
