RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
Those folks at Towerstream really like to test their gear ;-) https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/els/reports/GenericSearchResult.cf m?RequestTimeout=500 Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) Speaking to the community at large: The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. Your average simple STA used to take about 2 months tops to get approved. The same STA now takes over 1/2 a year. And remember, this is the same lab that is directly approving/certifying 5.4 GHz gear. In other words, for every garbage STA the lab must process, everything the lab legitimately needs to do only gets pushed out and delayed. Yes, it tweaks me to see so many processes abused; it is symptomatic of the disregard by some for FCC rules. And yes, there is abuse of STAs at the hands of some operators (not just some WISPs). Two years ago I could point to no such abuse by our industry. And yes, I know I sound like a broken CD player, stuck on repeat. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? So what your saying Patrick is, It's ok, we should go and buy some of these things and do some testing, right? :) George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
802.11 and contention in general is, at least under the original RO (which is being revisited), an acceptable protocol. It is not THE protocol. This is not a debatable point, though it does have many confused. But I was there, twice, and received that answer directly from the FCC team that wrote the RO. Everyone one else is simply assuming based on a cursory (and not thorough) reading of the original RO. Even a thorough reading alone shows that contention (much less actual 802.11 contention) is required by the RO. The revision to the RO, when it finally gets issued, may codify contention specifically and even may codify an 802.11 version; today however, that is not the case. For the record, either way works for us, so I'm not trying to slant anything. These are just the basic facts. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Valenti Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:03 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? I heard back from a Ubiquiti salesperson yesterday (working Sunday!), they expect to start shipping the XR3 cards this month. http://www.ubnt.com/xtreme_range3.php4 I guess they are claiming that 802.11 is the contention protocol. I might check out a pair, we'll see how they are priced. After I finish with non-commercial WISP testing, I suppose they could be used for amateur radio projects, since they also support 3300-3500MHz. On March 3, at 1:57 AM March 3, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:30:38 -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote 3650 is complicated. Last month's FCC visit stated that they are getting close, and expect answers by Fall :-( Experimental licenses are available, allthough, would likely result in removing gear in a year. Can you point to any info on getting one? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
So what your saying Patrick is, It's ok, we should go and buy some of these things and do some testing, right? :) George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) Speaking to the community at large: The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. Your average simple STA used to take about 2 months tops to get approved. The same STA now takes over 1/2 a year. And remember, this is the same lab that is directly approving/certifying 5.4 GHz gear. In other words, for every garbage STA the lab must process, everything the lab legitimately needs to do only gets pushed out and delayed. Yes, it tweaks me to see so many processes abused; it is symptomatic of the disregard by some for FCC rules. And yes, there is abuse of STAs at the hands of some operators (not just some WISPs). Two years ago I could point to no such abuse by our industry. And yes, I know I sound like a broken CD player, stuck on repeat. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? So what your saying Patrick is, It's ok, we should go and buy some of these things and do some testing, right? :) George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
What is STA? Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 2:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) Speaking to the community at large: The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. Your average simple STA used to take about 2 months tops to get approved. The same STA now takes over 1/2 a year. And remember, this is the same lab that is directly approving/certifying 5.4 GHz gear. In other words, for every garbage STA the lab must process, everything the lab legitimately needs to do only gets pushed out and delayed. Yes, it tweaks me to see so many processes abused; it is symptomatic of the disregard by some for FCC rules. And yes, there is abuse of STAs at the hands of some operators (not just some WISPs). Two years ago I could point to no such abuse by our industry. And yes, I know I sound like a broken CD player, stuck on repeat. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? So what your saying Patrick is, It's ok, we should go and buy some of these things and do some testing, right? :) George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
Special Temporary Authority. These are temporary use permits issued by the FCC, typically to use pieces of frequency not publicly generally available. Such use is limited to testing purposes, most often to learn and develop technical aspects of a new system in development. Commercial use (revenue generating use) is strictly prohibited. https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/els/forms/StaEntry.cfm Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark McElvy Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 12:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? What is STA? Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 2:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) Speaking to the community at large: The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. Your average simple STA used to take about 2 months tops to get approved. The same STA now takes over 1/2 a year. And remember, this is the same lab that is directly approving/certifying 5.4 GHz gear. In other words, for every garbage STA the lab must process, everything the lab legitimately needs to do only gets pushed out and delayed. Yes, it tweaks me to see so many processes abused; it is symptomatic of the disregard by some for FCC rules. And yes, there is abuse of STAs at the hands of some operators (not just some WISPs). Two years ago I could point to no such abuse by our industry. And yes, I know I sound like a broken CD player, stuck on repeat. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? So what your saying Patrick is, It's ok, we should go and buy some of these things and do some testing, right? :) George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(43). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
From the FCC Web site: Filing Guidelines for Experimental Special Temporary Authorization To provide applicants for experimental Special Temporary Authorization (STA) with the best possible service, we offer the following guidelines: STAs are intended for experiments that will last no longer than six months. Applicants intending to conduct experiments of longer duration should file for a regular experimental license using FCC Form 442. Applications for STAs are generally processed on a first come, first served basis along with regular applications and should be filed well in advance (at least 30-60 days, if possible) of the desired start day. In cases where such advance notice cannot be provided, including applications for emergency response systems or those related to national security issues, applicants should make every effort to file as well in advance as possible. If expedited processing is necessary, applicants must provide sufficient justification in accordance with Section 5.61 of the Commission rules. The Commission will evaluate such justification on a case by case basis to determine if expedited processing is warranted. Expedited processing does not bypass the normal application review process. All applications undergo review regarding the potential for an experiment to cause interference to both non-federal and federal systems. Depending on the desired bands of operation, coordination with NTIA may be necessary. Application Status may be checked online from the The OET ELS Application Search Report or directed to Nancy Hey at 202-418-2432, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Application filing questions or ELS filing problems should be directed to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 12:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? Special Temporary Authority. These are temporary use permits issued by the FCC, typically to use pieces of frequency not publicly generally available. Such use is limited to testing purposes, most often to learn and develop technical aspects of a new system in development. Commercial use (revenue generating use) is strictly prohibited. https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/els/forms/StaEntry.cfm Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark McElvy Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 12:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? What is STA? Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 2:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) Speaking to the community at large: The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. Your average simple STA used to take about 2 months tops to get approved. The same STA now takes over 1/2 a year. And remember, this is the same lab that is directly approving/certifying 5.4 GHz gear. In other words, for every garbage STA the lab must process, everything the lab legitimately needs to do only gets pushed out and delayed. Yes, it tweaks me to see so many processes abused; it is symptomatic of the disregard by some for FCC rules. And yes, there is abuse of STAs at the hands of some operators (not just some WISPs). Two years ago I could point to no such abuse by our industry. And yes, I know I sound like a broken CD player, stuck on repeat. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? So what your saying Patrick is, It's ok, we should go and buy some of these things and do some testing, right? :) George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
Patrick Leary wrote: You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) :) Well maybe a bit, but some of us have our 3650 aps in. Just figuring your a wealth of information and I knew you would expand upon this. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
CFR 47, Part 5 http://tscm.com/47cfr5.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 12:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? If I remember correctly (and I hope anyone will jump in here with any necessary corrections to the following) it's a Special Temporary Authorization. In the Experimental Radio Service which is the service that I believe is applicable to on-air testing of 3650 MHz transmitters, it is a temporary authorization to conduct the following types of operation: a) Experimentation in scientific or technical radio research. b) Experimentation under contractual agreement with the United States Government, or for export purposes. c) Communications essential to a research project. d) Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques. e) Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization in any other service. f) Demonstrations of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons engaged in the business of selling radio equipment. g) Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory approval of such equipment. h) Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering data not related to any existing or proposed service, including field or factory testing or calibration of equipment. i) Development of radio technique, equipment, operational data or engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio service. j) Limited market studies. k) Types of experiments that are not specifically covered under paragraphs (a) through (j) will be considered upon demonstrations of need for such additional types of experiments. Before applying for an STA, it's required to obtain, read, and understand Part 5 (Experimental Radio Service) of Code of Federal Regulations 47 (CFR 47). CFR 47 can be obtained from the Government Printing Office. jack Mark McElvy wrote: What is STA? Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 2:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) Speaking to the community at large: The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. Your average simple STA used to take about 2 months tops to get approved. The same STA now takes over 1/2 a year. And remember, this is the same lab that is directly approving/certifying 5.4 GHz gear. In other words, for every garbage STA the lab must process, everything the lab legitimately needs to do only gets pushed out and delayed. Yes, it tweaks me to see so many processes abused; it is symptomatic of the disregard by some for FCC rules. And yes, there is abuse of STAs at the hands of some operators (not just some WISPs). Two years ago I could point to no such abuse by our industry. And yes, I know I sound like a broken CD player, stuck on repeat. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? So what your saying Patrick is, It's ok, we should go and buy some of these things and do some testing, right? :) George -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(43
RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
If your STA is not for this purpose, its legitimacy is, well, questionable. 5.57 (a) Each applicant for an authorization in the Experimental Radio Service must enclose with the application a narrative statement describing in detail the program of research and experimentation proposed, the specific objectives sought to be accomplished; and how the program of experimentation has a reasonable promise of contribution to the development, extension, or expansion, or utilization of the radio art, or is along lines not already investigated. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? CFR 47, Part 5 http://tscm.com/47cfr5.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 12:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? If I remember correctly (and I hope anyone will jump in here with any necessary corrections to the following) it's a Special Temporary Authorization. In the Experimental Radio Service which is the service that I believe is applicable to on-air testing of 3650 MHz transmitters, it is a temporary authorization to conduct the following types of operation: a) Experimentation in scientific or technical radio research. b) Experimentation under contractual agreement with the United States Government, or for export purposes. c) Communications essential to a research project. d) Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques. e) Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization in any other service. f) Demonstrations of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons engaged in the business of selling radio equipment. g) Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory approval of such equipment. h) Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering data not related to any existing or proposed service, including field or factory testing or calibration of equipment. i) Development of radio technique, equipment, operational data or engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio service. j) Limited market studies. k) Types of experiments that are not specifically covered under paragraphs (a) through (j) will be considered upon demonstrations of need for such additional types of experiments. Before applying for an STA, it's required to obtain, read, and understand Part 5 (Experimental Radio Service) of Code of Federal Regulations 47 (CFR 47). CFR 47 can be obtained from the Government Printing Office. jack Mark McElvy wrote: What is STA? Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 2:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) Speaking to the community at large: The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. Your average simple STA used to take about 2 months tops to get approved. The same STA now takes over 1/2 a year. And remember, this is the same lab that is directly approving/certifying 5.4 GHz gear. In other words, for every garbage STA the lab must process, everything the lab legitimately needs to do only gets pushed out and delayed. Yes, it tweaks me to see so many processes abused; it is symptomatic of the disregard by some for FCC rules. And yes, there is abuse of STAs at the hands of some operators (not just some WISPs). Two years ago I could point to no such abuse by our industry. And yes, I know I sound like a broken CD player, stuck on repeat. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? So what your saying Patrick is, It's ok, we should go and buy some of these things and do some testing, right? :) George -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818
RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
Subpart D, Operating Requirements, General Limitations 5.151: (1) Stations may make only such transmissions as are necessary and directly related to the conduct of the licensee's stated program of experimentation as specified in this application for construction permit and license and the related station instrument of authorization, and as governed by the provisions of the rules and regulations contained in this part. All transmissions shall be limited to the minimum practical transmission time. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? If your STA is not for this purpose, its legitimacy is, well, questionable. 5.57 (a) Each applicant for an authorization in the Experimental Radio Service must enclose with the application a narrative statement describing in detail the program of research and experimentation proposed, the specific objectives sought to be accomplished; and how the program of experimentation has a reasonable promise of contribution to the development, extension, or expansion, or utilization of the radio art, or is along lines not already investigated. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? CFR 47, Part 5 http://tscm.com/47cfr5.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 12:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? If I remember correctly (and I hope anyone will jump in here with any necessary corrections to the following) it's a Special Temporary Authorization. In the Experimental Radio Service which is the service that I believe is applicable to on-air testing of 3650 MHz transmitters, it is a temporary authorization to conduct the following types of operation: a) Experimentation in scientific or technical radio research. b) Experimentation under contractual agreement with the United States Government, or for export purposes. c) Communications essential to a research project. d) Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques. e) Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization in any other service. f) Demonstrations of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons engaged in the business of selling radio equipment. g) Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory approval of such equipment. h) Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering data not related to any existing or proposed service, including field or factory testing or calibration of equipment. i) Development of radio technique, equipment, operational data or engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio service. j) Limited market studies. k) Types of experiments that are not specifically covered under paragraphs (a) through (j) will be considered upon demonstrations of need for such additional types of experiments. Before applying for an STA, it's required to obtain, read, and understand Part 5 (Experimental Radio Service) of Code of Federal Regulations 47 (CFR 47). CFR 47 can be obtained from the Government Printing Office. jack Mark McElvy wrote: What is STA? Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 2:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) Speaking to the community at large: The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. Your average simple STA used to take about 2 months tops to get approved. The same STA now takes over 1/2 a year. And remember, this is the same lab that is directly approving/certifying 5.4 GHz gear. In other words, for every garbage STA the lab must process, everything the lab legitimately needs to do only gets pushed out and delayed. Yes, it tweaks me to see so many processes abused; it is symptomatic of the disregard by some for FCC rules. And yes, there is abuse of STAs at the hands of some operators (not just some WISPs). Two years ago I could point to no such abuse by our industry. And yes, I know I sound like a broken CD player, stuck on repeat
RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
Inspection Rights... § 5.160 Inspection of stations. All stations and records of stations in the Experimental Radio Service shall be made available for inspection at any time while the station is in operation or shall be made available for inspection upon reasonable request of an authorized representative of the Commission. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? Subpart D, Operating Requirements, General Limitations 5.151: (1) Stations may make only such transmissions as are necessary and directly related to the conduct of the licensee's stated program of experimentation as specified in this application for construction permit and license and the related station instrument of authorization, and as governed by the provisions of the rules and regulations contained in this part. All transmissions shall be limited to the minimum practical transmission time. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? If your STA is not for this purpose, its legitimacy is, well, questionable. 5.57 (a) Each applicant for an authorization in the Experimental Radio Service must enclose with the application a narrative statement describing in detail the program of research and experimentation proposed, the specific objectives sought to be accomplished; and how the program of experimentation has a reasonable promise of contribution to the development, extension, or expansion, or utilization of the radio art, or is along lines not already investigated. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? CFR 47, Part 5 http://tscm.com/47cfr5.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 12:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? If I remember correctly (and I hope anyone will jump in here with any necessary corrections to the following) it's a Special Temporary Authorization. In the Experimental Radio Service which is the service that I believe is applicable to on-air testing of 3650 MHz transmitters, it is a temporary authorization to conduct the following types of operation: a) Experimentation in scientific or technical radio research. b) Experimentation under contractual agreement with the United States Government, or for export purposes. c) Communications essential to a research project. d) Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques. e) Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for authorization in any other service. f) Demonstrations of equipment to prospective purchasers by persons engaged in the business of selling radio equipment. g) Testing of equipment in connection with production or regulatory approval of such equipment. h) Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering data not related to any existing or proposed service, including field or factory testing or calibration of equipment. i) Development of radio technique, equipment, operational data or engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio service. j) Limited market studies. k) Types of experiments that are not specifically covered under paragraphs (a) through (j) will be considered upon demonstrations of need for such additional types of experiments. Before applying for an STA, it's required to obtain, read, and understand Part 5 (Experimental Radio Service) of Code of Federal Regulations 47 (CFR 47). CFR 47 can be obtained from the Government Printing Office. jack Mark McElvy wrote: What is STA? Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 2:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) Speaking to the community at large: The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. Your
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
Hi John, The Ubiquitu XR3 spec sheet is misleading. As far as I know, there is no current legal license-free 3650 operation allowed, as Ubiquity states. Operation on 3650 can only take place when a Special Temporary Authorization aplication has been submitted to the FCC and an STA approval received back from the FCC. In general, STAs in the Experimental Radio Service are issued to allow on-air testing of equipment or new technology that can only be tested on-the-air. Please see my previous post which outlines the conditions under which an STA may be granted. Legal, commercial WISP use of 3650 requires not an STA but a non-exclusive license application process with the FCC. Final requirements are still being finalized but here's a cut and past from the March 10, 2005 announcement. __ FCC OPENS ACCESS TO NEW SPECTRUM FOR WIRELESS BROADBAND IN THE 3650 MHZ BAND WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC or Commission) adopted rules to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in the 3650-3700 MHz band (3650 MHz). The Commission adopted a hybrid approach that draws from both the Commission’s unlicensed and licensed regulatory models and provides for nationwide, non-exclusive licensing of terrestrial operations in the band utilizing technologies employing contention-based protocols. This streamlined licensing mechanism with minimal regulatory entry requirements will encourage multiple new entrants and stimulate the rapid expansion of wireless broadband services -- especially in rural America -- by Wireless Internet Service Providers (WISPs) and other entities with limited resources. The Commission also provided an opportunity for the introduction at 3650 MHz of a variety of new wireless broadband technologies, such as Wi-Max, into the band. Under the Commission’s approach, there is no limit on the number of licenses that can be granted, and each licensee will be authorized to operate on a shared basis with other licensees on all 50 megahertz of the band, subject to restrictions in geographic areas occupied by grandfathered Fixed Satellite Service (FSS) and Federal Government stations. Licensees will also be required to register all system base stations electronically with the Commission. Base station registration will enable licensees to locate each other’s operations and will facilitate protection of grandfathered stations from interference. This type of licensing and registration will enable the Commission to monitor the use of this spectrum as new technologies and services develop. The Commission found that the public record developed in this proceeding supports multiple users sharing this spectrum through the use of “contention-based” protocols to minimize interference among fixed and mobile operations. New fixed and mobile stations will therefore be required to use contention-based protocols, which will reduce the possibility of interference from co-frequency operation by managing each station’s access to spectrum. The Commission concluded that this approach is a reasonable, cost-effective method for ensuring that multiple users can access the spectrum. The Commission gave all licensees the mutual obligation to cooperate and avoid harmful interference to one another. Mobile stations also will be required to positively receive and decode an enabling signal transmitted by a base station. The Commission determined that this approach will ensure that mobile stations operate within range of registered base stations, thereby avoiding interference to grandfathered FSS and Federal Government stations. Fixed stations will be allowed to operate with a peak power limit of 25 Watts per 25 megahertz bandwidth, and mobile stations with a peak power limit of 1 Watt per 25 megahertz bandwidth. The Commission kept the existing allocations for the band, grandfathering previously licensed primary incumbent FSS earth station operations and three Federal Government radiolocation stations, entitling them to interference protection from new wireless licensees. To protect these incumbent operations, the Commission established circular protection zones around them – 150 km for FSS earth stations and 80 km for Federal Government stations - and prohibited new terrestrial licensees from operating within these zones unless they negotiate agreements with the incumbents. The Commission determined that new FSS stations should be allowed on a secondary basis and denied several petitions for reconsideration of an earlier decision in this proceeding that established the existing FSS, FS and MS allocations. The Commission also concluded that there should be no eligibility restrictions (other than the statutory foreign ownership restrictions) and no in-band or out-of-band spectrum aggregation limits. Licensees will receive a 10-year
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
Patrick Leary wrote: You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) Does it take much? I think you are probably a one twist is all it takes sort of guy. :-) Speaking to the community at large: The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. So now you want to bitch because too many people are trying to get stuff certified? That's a new twist on a dull theme. Yes, it tweaks me to see so many processes abused I guess I need to have your rationale explained to me here. People who are paying to have gear certified are abusing the system because...? I am not following this one at all. Please explain. I can't wait for this fun thread to blossom into what I am sure will be as much fun as my last trip to the dentist. And yes, I know I sound like a broken CD player, stuck on repeat. Well, actually I think this is going to be a new track on your broken CD. :-) Scriv Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? So what your saying Patrick is, It's ok, we should go and buy some of these things and do some testing, right? :) George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
So now you want to bitch because too many people are trying to get stuff certified? I can't wait for this fun thread to blossom into what I am sure will be as much fun as my last trip to the dentist. John, sorry but this post eludes me. This thread has zip, zero, nada to do worth product certification. STA's have nothing to do with certifications. I also do not understand why you turning this thread into something personal about me or otherwise go negative (damn it, you are the last person I expect this type of grief from). Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? Patrick Leary wrote: You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) Does it take much? I think you are probably a one twist is all it takes sort of guy. :-) Speaking to the community at large: The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. So now you want to bitch because too many people are trying to get stuff certified? That's a new twist on a dull theme. Yes, it tweaks me to see so many processes abused I guess I need to have your rationale explained to me here. People who are paying to have gear certified are abusing the system because...? I am not following this one at all. Please explain. I can't wait for this fun thread to blossom into what I am sure will be as much fun as my last trip to the dentist. And yes, I know I sound like a broken CD player, stuck on repeat. Well, actually I think this is going to be a new track on your broken CD. :-) Scriv Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? So what your saying Patrick is, It's ok, we should go and buy some of these things and do some testing, right? :) George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
Jack Patrick: thanks for all the info on 3650 status. This type of response is why I'm on this mailing list. That March 10, 2005 announcement is near-and-dear to me, since that is what started me on the WISP path. I haven't closely followed the progress on 3650, so when I saw the XR3 info I thought it might be happening soon. Those thoughts were pushed along further when I saw the Part-15 org people selling a help get licensed on 3650 manual -- their webpage doesn't indicate to me that it is still experimental. http://www.part-15.org/sales/3650manual.asp Sounds like I should plan testing under my ham license (~3400MHz) rather than clogging up the FCC with a bogus STA application. My interest is propagation thru our Michigan foliage, so I would want to test this summer. But maybe someone could just tell me what to expect - should it be similar to 2.4GHz? -John (kd8bqx) PS - any chance I could convince folks to trim their responses? I read this list in digest mode, 80% of the digest is noise. :-) The Ubiquitu XR3 spec sheet is misleading. As far as I know, there is no current legal license-free 3650 operation allowed, as Ubiquity states. Operation on 3650 can only take place when a Special Temporary Authorization aplication has been submitted to the FCC and an STA approval received back from the FCC. In general, STAs in the Experimental Radio Service are issued to allow on-air testing of equipment or new technology that can only be tested on-the-air. Please see my previous post which outlines the conditions under which an STA may be granted. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
Part-15 org people selling a help get licensed on 3650 manual -- their webpage doesn't indicate to me that it is still experimental. http://www.part-15.org/sales/3650manual.asp Catch this from that page: Training Manual Have you looked into using 3650MHz for the security of Interference Free Wireless Backhauls? Are you bewildered by all the FCC issues currently going on with the band? Can you obtain a 3650MHz license? How much does the license and equipment cost? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
John, To learn the propagation characteristics of 3.x GHz gear, testing in the 3300-3500 MHz ham band is clearly the best way to go. Personal experimentation (advancing the radio art) and performing public service were (and are) the reason that the amateur radio service exists. Of course, we can't make money or use ham radio for any commercial purpose but it's absolutely perfect for learning about propagation characteristics on many different frequencies. If you could report your 3.5 GHz test results back here, I think many WISPs would appreciate knowing what you find out. I'm going to speculate (I've never been on 3.5 GHz myself) that the propagation will be a cross between 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. Obstacles will be more of a problem than on 2.4 GHz but not as much of a problem as on 5 GHz. Best Regards, jack (K6XS) BTW, For any WISP-person who wants to get their ham license, it's never been easier. The Morse Code requirement has been dropped. Most parts of the country have free or low-cost licensing classes. In as little as one weekend, it's possible to learn everything needed to pass the (multiple-choice) licensing test. Here's just one link: http://www.hamuniverse.com/study.html John Valenti wrote: Jack Patrick: thanks for all the info on 3650 status. This type of response is why I'm on this mailing list. That March 10, 2005 announcement is near-and-dear to me, since that is what started me on the WISP path. I haven't closely followed the progress on 3650, so when I saw the XR3 info I thought it might be happening soon. Those thoughts were pushed along further when I saw the Part-15 org people selling a help get licensed on 3650 manual -- their webpage doesn't indicate to me that it is still experimental. http://www.part-15.org/sales/3650manual.asp Sounds like I should plan testing under my ham license (~3400MHz) rather than clogging up the FCC with a bogus STA application. My interest is propagation thru our Michigan foliage, so I would want to test this summer. But maybe someone could just tell me what to expect - should it be similar to 2.4GHz? -John (kd8bqx) PS - any chance I could convince folks to trim their responses? I read this list in digest mode, 80% of the digest is noise. :-) The Ubiquitu XR3 spec sheet is misleading. As far as I know, there is no current legal license-free 3650 operation allowed, as Ubiquity states. Operation on 3650 can only take place when a Special Temporary Authorization aplication has been submitted to the FCC and an STA approval received back from the FCC. In general, STAs in the Experimental Radio Service are issued to allow on-air testing of equipment or new technology that can only be tested on-the-air. Please see my previous post which outlines the conditions under which an STA may be granted. -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
The folks at the FCC aren't stupid. My *guess* is that they are allowing some use of the band by commercial operators to gather field data about what'll really happen when they release the band. marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? Hi John, The Ubiquitu XR3 spec sheet is misleading. As far as I know, there is no current legal license-free 3650 operation allowed, as Ubiquity states. Operation on 3650 can only take place when a Special Temporary Authorization aplication has been submitted to the FCC and an STA approval received back from the FCC. In general, STAs in the Experimental Radio Service are issued to allow on-air testing of equipment or new technology that can only be tested on-the-air. Please see my previous post which outlines the conditions under which an STA may be granted. Legal, commercial WISP use of 3650 requires not an STA but a non-exclusive license application process with the FCC. Final requirements are still being finalized but here's a cut and past from the March 10, 2005 announcement. __ FCC OPENS ACCESS TO NEW SPECTRUM FOR WIRELESS BROADBAND IN THE 3650 MHZ BAND WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC or Commission) adopted rules to open access to new spectrum for wireless broadband in the 3650-3700 MHz band (3650 MHz). The Commission adopted a hybrid approach that draws from both the Commission’s unlicensed and licensed regulatory models and provides for nationwide, non-exclusive licensing of terrestrial operations in the band utilizing technologies employing contention-based protocols. This streamlined licensing mechanism with minimal regulatory entry requirements will encourage multiple new entrants and stimulate the rapid expansion of wireless broadband services -- especially in rural America -- by Wireless Internet Service Providers (WISPs) and other entities with limited resources. The Commission also provided an opportunity for the introduction at 3650 MHz of a variety of new wireless broadband technologies, such as Wi-Max, into the band. Under the Commission’s approach, there is no limit on the number of licenses that can be granted, and each licensee will be authorized to operate on a shared basis with other licensees on all 50 megahertz of the band, subject to restrictions in geographic areas occupied by grandfathered Fixed Satellite Service (FSS) and Federal Government stations. Licensees will also be required to register all system base stations electronically with the Commission. Base station registration will enable licensees to locate each other’s operations and will facilitate protection of grandfathered stations from interference. This type of licensing and registration will enable the Commission to monitor the use of this spectrum as new technologies and services develop. The Commission found that the public record developed in this proceeding supports multiple users sharing this spectrum through the use of “contention-based” protocols to minimize interference among fixed and mobile operations. New fixed and mobile stations will therefore be required to use contention-based protocols, which will reduce the possibility of interference from co-frequency operation by managing each station’s access to spectrum. The Commission concluded that this approach is a reasonable, cost-effective method for ensuring that multiple users can access the spectrum. The Commission gave all licensees the mutual obligation to cooperate and avoid harmful interference to one another. Mobile stations also will be required to positively receive and decode an enabling signal transmitted by a base station. The Commission determined that this approach will ensure that mobile stations operate within range of registered base stations, thereby avoiding interference to grandfathered FSS and Federal Government stations. Fixed stations will be allowed to operate with a peak power limit of 25 Watts per 25 megahertz bandwidth, and mobile stations with a peak power limit of 1 Watt per 25 megahertz bandwidth. The Commission kept the existing allocations for the band, grandfathering previously licensed primary incumbent FSS earth station operations and three Federal Government radiolocation stations, entitling them to interference protection from new wireless licensees. To protect these incumbent operations, the Commission established circular protection zones around them – 150 km for FSS earth stations and 80 km for Federal Government stations - and prohibited new terrestrial licensees from operating within these zones unless they negotiate agreements with the incumbents. The Commission determined that new FSS stations should be allowed
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
I thought that STA was a certification process for getting 3650 stuff certified. My bad. Sorry for the rude comments. I'll shut up now. Scriv Patrick Leary wrote: So now you want to bitch because too many people are trying to get stuff certified? I can't wait for this fun thread to blossom into what I am sure will be as much fun as my last trip to the dentist. John, sorry but this post eludes me. This thread has zip, zero, nada to do worth product certification. STA's have nothing to do with certifications. I also do not understand why you turning this thread into something personal about me or otherwise go negative (damn it, you are the last person I expect this type of grief from). Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? Patrick Leary wrote: You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :) Does it take much? I think you are probably a one twist is all it takes sort of guy. :-) Speaking to the community at large: The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. So now you want to bitch because too many people are trying to get stuff certified? That's a new twist on a dull theme. Yes, it tweaks me to see so many processes abused I guess I need to have your rationale explained to me here. People who are paying to have gear certified are abusing the system because...? I am not following this one at all. Please explain. I can't wait for this fun thread to blossom into what I am sure will be as much fun as my last trip to the dentist. And yes, I know I sound like a broken CD player, stuck on repeat. Well, actually I think this is going to be a new track on your broken CD. :-) Scriv Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? So what your saying Patrick is, It's ok, we should go and buy some of these things and do some testing, right? :) George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
On Mon, 5 Mar 2007 18:40:33 -0500, John Valenti wrote Jack Patrick: thanks for all the info on 3650 status. This type of response is why I'm on this mailing list. That March 10, 2005 announcement is near-and-dear to me, since that is what started me on the WISP path. I haven't closely followed the progress on 3650, so when I saw the XR3 info I thought it might be happening soon. Those thoughts were pushed along further when I saw the Part-15 org people selling a help get licensed on 3650 manual -- their webpage doesn't indicate to me that it is still experimental. http://www.part-15.org/sales/3650manual.asp Sounds like I should plan testing under my ham license (~3400MHz) rather than clogging up the FCC with a bogus STA application. My interest is propagation thru our Michigan foliage, so I would want to test this summer. But maybe someone could just tell me what to expect - should it be similar to 2.4GHz? You gotta learn to read carefully. Part-15's site says that Part 15 AND REDLINE and part-90 (defunct) are teaming up to create a manual to teach WISP's everything they need to know in order to get licensed for 3650. I dunno if you're aware of it or not, but REdline already has P2P and P2MP equipment that is 3650 capable. With this slant - Redline being a sponsor, that is - it casts a whole new light on the notion of who is teaching what about what. I suspect it has something to do with teaching licensing procedures and protocol, and about the use of Redline's equipment. Perhaps Redline is doing some kind of cooperative effort for testing 3650 equipment. -John (kd8bqx) PS - any chance I could convince folks to trim their responses? I read this list in digest mode, 80% of the digest is noise. :-) Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
Ah ha, that explains it: I'm using unlicensed as an experiment to try and generate revenue lol! My wife calls my business a test! ;) On 3/3/07, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me add that experimental licenses can't be used to generate revenue; it's for testing purposes only. Commercial use is against the law. jack Tom DeReggi wrote: Part-15, Michael Anderson, was selling a quick instruction guide for obtaining 3650 temporary license, last year. You might want to ask him. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:30:38 -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote 3650 is complicated. Last month's FCC visit stated that they are getting close, and expect answers by Fall :-( Experimental licenses are available, allthough, would likely result in removing gear in a year. Can you point to any info on getting one? I'm hoping personally, that they rule to keep it 100% unlicensed (actually registered / Non-exclusive Free licensing, being almost the same as unlicensed) , 100% in tact, but get rid of contention based. My personal belief is that the delay of 3650 will have helped small WISPs. The reason is that Licensed 3650 in other countries has allowed Manufacturers to start scaling their production and doingtheir research. At the same time it kept Capitol rich US telecom out of the WISP business, while WISPs could take the time to get stronger and larger. Its possible that if they remove contention based, in a year WISPs would have virgin spectrum with LOW DOLLAR WiMax gear that they can afford by teh time the spectrum is usable. If it's left in, we can use variants of 802.11 gear NOW, and for relatively cheap, as well. Heck, whether it's in or out, it appears to be workable. Frankly, I could use it now. I have no issues with distance and eirp for 2.4 or 5.8 as it stands. I mean, I can find ways of dealing with those limitations. I can't deal with the interference nearly as well. I found both UDC's and antennas that could be built to comply for 3650 NOW, and the idea of some interference free backhauls certainly sounds good. Being required to pull them in a year or two doesn't sound catastrophic to me. But Telecoms would still ahve the uncertainty of Unlicensed, detering its use by large scale telecoms. The word is that WiMax does not work in non-Licensed, but as we know, allthough WiMax will undisputedly perform better in Licensed, it will perform JUST AS GOOD as our current legacy TDD gear (such as Trango and Motorola). However, if they insist on keeping Contention based, I personally do not think a manaufacturer will ever make gear to use the spectrum. It would be nice if 802.16H or equivellent succeeded in stepping up to the table (contention based WiMax), but personally I don;t think it will happen in our Small WISP lifetime (meaning before WISPs sell to RollUps :-). Although WISPA's position was to support Contention BAsed, and it was the right thing to do at the time, I beleive that will ahve to be compromised in order to get use of the spectrum. Just because I think so many manufacturers are fighting it. Its the near license Free model that is essential and can't be compromised. My view on this is because 5.8G equivellent spectrum is what is so scarce, and none of the allocations given to use allowed equivellent power, we need the 3650 power, bad. I read the last R O quite extensively and decided that there's no real great advantage to 3650. You can use 25 W ERP, but only if you use a 25 mhz wide channel. The narrower the channel, the lower the erp limits. Exactly how this plays out Thus, using narrower slices of the spectrum is not encouraged. One other apparently odd deficiency is that there's no ERP distinction between P2P and P2MP. You can use an omni at both ends of a P2P link without penalty, nor is there anything to encourage cleaner P2P use like the ISM 2.4 and 5.8 rules. Personally, I think the FCC is holding out, trying to force manufacturers to innovate and embrace the ideas of contention based. They are waiting for a manufacturer to show them it CAN and WILL be done, if they hold firm on the original rules. But if Manufacturers don;t cooperate and make something that can pass the requirement, teh FCC will effectively be squatting on the spectrum, and will probably give up on their ideals, and get pressure to find a way to make the spectrum usable. But that is just my personal feelings, and in no way a representation or confirmation of what the FCC feels. They are prety much at a no comment stage, lsitening to all the arguements and watching how things evolve. Without rules to go by, I don't see ANYONE putting money
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
3650 is complicated. Last month's FCC visit stated that they are getting close, and expect answers by Fall :-( Experimental licenses are available, allthough, would likely result in removing gear in a year. I'm hoping personally, that they rule to keep it 100% unlicensed (actually registered / Non-exclusive Free licensing, being almost the same as unlicensed) , 100% in tact, but get rid of contention based. My personal belief is that the delay of 3650 will have helped small WISPs. The reason is that Licensed 3650 in other countries has allowed Manufacturers to start scaling their production and doingtheir research. At the same time it kept Capitol rich US telecom out of the WISP business, while WISPs could take the time to get stronger and larger. Its possible that if they remove contention based, in a year WISPs would have virgin spectrum with LOW DOLLAR WiMax gear that they can afford by teh time the spectrum is usable. But Telecoms would still ahve the uncertainty of Unlicensed, detering its use by large scale telecoms. The word is that WiMax does not work in non-Licensed, but as we know, allthough WiMax will undisputedly perform better in Licensed, it will perform JUST AS GOOD as our current legacy TDD gear (such as Trango and Motorola). However, if they insist on keeping Contention based, I personally do not think a manaufacturer will ever make gear to use the spectrum. It would be nice if 802.16H or equivellent succeeded in stepping up to the table (contention based WiMax), but personally I don;t think it will happen in our Small WISP lifetime (meaning before WISPs sell to RollUps :-). Although WISPA's position was to support Contention BAsed, and it was the right thing to do at the time, I beleive that will ahve to be compromised in order to get use of the spectrum. Just because I think so many manufacturers are fighting it. Its the near license Free model that is essential and can't be compromised. My view on this is because 5.8G equivellent spectrum is what is so scarce, and none of the allocations given to use allowed equivellent power, we need the 3650 power, bad. Personally, I think the FCC is holding out, trying to force manufacturers to innovate and embrace the ideas of contention based. They are waiting for a manufacturer to show them it CAN and WILL be done, if they hold firm on the original rules. But if Manufacturers don;t cooperate and make something that can pass the requirement, teh FCC will effectively be squatting on the spectrum, and will probably give up on their ideals, and get pressure to find a way to make the spectrum usable. But that is just my personal feelings, and in no way a representation or confirmation of what the FCC feels. They are prety much at a no comment stage, lsitening to all the arguements and watching how things evolve. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 4:29 AM Subject: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? I spent some time reading the latest R O about the 3650 spectrum, which is dated back in 2005. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-56A1.pdf I am, however, unable to understand what the present status is. Does anyone have that information? What's going on...or not going on? Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
That's an age old question. Anyone have any ideas what's up with it? - Jeff On 3/2/07 1:29 AM, wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I spent some time reading the latest R O about the 3650 spectrum, which is dated back in 2005. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-56A1.pdf I am, however, unable to understand what the present status is. Does anyone have that information? What's going on...or not going on? Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:30:38 -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote 3650 is complicated. Last month's FCC visit stated that they are getting close, and expect answers by Fall :-( Experimental licenses are available, allthough, would likely result in removing gear in a year. Can you point to any info on getting one? I'm hoping personally, that they rule to keep it 100% unlicensed (actually registered / Non-exclusive Free licensing, being almost the same as unlicensed) , 100% in tact, but get rid of contention based. My personal belief is that the delay of 3650 will have helped small WISPs. The reason is that Licensed 3650 in other countries has allowed Manufacturers to start scaling their production and doingtheir research. At the same time it kept Capitol rich US telecom out of the WISP business, while WISPs could take the time to get stronger and larger. Its possible that if they remove contention based, in a year WISPs would have virgin spectrum with LOW DOLLAR WiMax gear that they can afford by teh time the spectrum is usable. If it's left in, we can use variants of 802.11 gear NOW, and for relatively cheap, as well. Heck, whether it's in or out, it appears to be workable. Frankly, I could use it now. I have no issues with distance and eirp for 2.4 or 5.8 as it stands. I mean, I can find ways of dealing with those limitations. I can't deal with the interference nearly as well. I found both UDC's and antennas that could be built to comply for 3650 NOW, and the idea of some interference free backhauls certainly sounds good. Being required to pull them in a year or two doesn't sound catastrophic to me. But Telecoms would still ahve the uncertainty of Unlicensed, detering its use by large scale telecoms. The word is that WiMax does not work in non-Licensed, but as we know, allthough WiMax will undisputedly perform better in Licensed, it will perform JUST AS GOOD as our current legacy TDD gear (such as Trango and Motorola). However, if they insist on keeping Contention based, I personally do not think a manaufacturer will ever make gear to use the spectrum. It would be nice if 802.16H or equivellent succeeded in stepping up to the table (contention based WiMax), but personally I don;t think it will happen in our Small WISP lifetime (meaning before WISPs sell to RollUps :-). Although WISPA's position was to support Contention BAsed, and it was the right thing to do at the time, I beleive that will ahve to be compromised in order to get use of the spectrum. Just because I think so many manufacturers are fighting it. Its the near license Free model that is essential and can't be compromised. My view on this is because 5.8G equivellent spectrum is what is so scarce, and none of the allocations given to use allowed equivellent power, we need the 3650 power, bad. I read the last R O quite extensively and decided that there's no real great advantage to 3650. You can use 25 W ERP, but only if you use a 25 mhz wide channel. The narrower the channel, the lower the erp limits. Exactly how this plays out Thus, using narrower slices of the spectrum is not encouraged. One other apparently odd deficiency is that there's no ERP distinction between P2P and P2MP. You can use an omni at both ends of a P2P link without penalty, nor is there anything to encourage cleaner P2P use like the ISM 2.4 and 5.8 rules. Personally, I think the FCC is holding out, trying to force manufacturers to innovate and embrace the ideas of contention based. They are waiting for a manufacturer to show them it CAN and WILL be done, if they hold firm on the original rules. But if Manufacturers don;t cooperate and make something that can pass the requirement, teh FCC will effectively be squatting on the spectrum, and will probably give up on their ideals, and get pressure to find a way to make the spectrum usable. But that is just my personal feelings, and in no way a representation or confirmation of what the FCC feels. They are prety much at a no comment stage, lsitening to all the arguements and watching how things evolve. Without rules to go by, I don't see ANYONE putting money into it. Any idea what kind of rules for what equipment is allowed? What kind of certifications mechanism? They hinted at use any antenna rules, which is fine, but if we're stuck with a part-15 type of whole assembly certification, we're going back to the must buy only the big boy's solutions which...may never exist, as you say. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 4:29 AM Subject: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? I spent some time reading the latest R O about the 3650 spectrum, which is dated back in 2005.
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
Part-15, Michael Anderson, was selling a quick instruction guide for obtaining 3650 temporary license, last year. You might want to ask him. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:30:38 -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote 3650 is complicated. Last month's FCC visit stated that they are getting close, and expect answers by Fall :-( Experimental licenses are available, allthough, would likely result in removing gear in a year. Can you point to any info on getting one? I'm hoping personally, that they rule to keep it 100% unlicensed (actually registered / Non-exclusive Free licensing, being almost the same as unlicensed) , 100% in tact, but get rid of contention based. My personal belief is that the delay of 3650 will have helped small WISPs. The reason is that Licensed 3650 in other countries has allowed Manufacturers to start scaling their production and doingtheir research. At the same time it kept Capitol rich US telecom out of the WISP business, while WISPs could take the time to get stronger and larger. Its possible that if they remove contention based, in a year WISPs would have virgin spectrum with LOW DOLLAR WiMax gear that they can afford by teh time the spectrum is usable. If it's left in, we can use variants of 802.11 gear NOW, and for relatively cheap, as well. Heck, whether it's in or out, it appears to be workable. Frankly, I could use it now. I have no issues with distance and eirp for 2.4 or 5.8 as it stands. I mean, I can find ways of dealing with those limitations. I can't deal with the interference nearly as well. I found both UDC's and antennas that could be built to comply for 3650 NOW, and the idea of some interference free backhauls certainly sounds good. Being required to pull them in a year or two doesn't sound catastrophic to me. But Telecoms would still ahve the uncertainty of Unlicensed, detering its use by large scale telecoms. The word is that WiMax does not work in non-Licensed, but as we know, allthough WiMax will undisputedly perform better in Licensed, it will perform JUST AS GOOD as our current legacy TDD gear (such as Trango and Motorola). However, if they insist on keeping Contention based, I personally do not think a manaufacturer will ever make gear to use the spectrum. It would be nice if 802.16H or equivellent succeeded in stepping up to the table (contention based WiMax), but personally I don;t think it will happen in our Small WISP lifetime (meaning before WISPs sell to RollUps :-). Although WISPA's position was to support Contention BAsed, and it was the right thing to do at the time, I beleive that will ahve to be compromised in order to get use of the spectrum. Just because I think so many manufacturers are fighting it. Its the near license Free model that is essential and can't be compromised. My view on this is because 5.8G equivellent spectrum is what is so scarce, and none of the allocations given to use allowed equivellent power, we need the 3650 power, bad. I read the last R O quite extensively and decided that there's no real great advantage to 3650. You can use 25 W ERP, but only if you use a 25 mhz wide channel. The narrower the channel, the lower the erp limits. Exactly how this plays out Thus, using narrower slices of the spectrum is not encouraged. One other apparently odd deficiency is that there's no ERP distinction between P2P and P2MP. You can use an omni at both ends of a P2P link without penalty, nor is there anything to encourage cleaner P2P use like the ISM 2.4 and 5.8 rules. Personally, I think the FCC is holding out, trying to force manufacturers to innovate and embrace the ideas of contention based. They are waiting for a manufacturer to show them it CAN and WILL be done, if they hold firm on the original rules. But if Manufacturers don;t cooperate and make something that can pass the requirement, teh FCC will effectively be squatting on the spectrum, and will probably give up on their ideals, and get pressure to find a way to make the spectrum usable. But that is just my personal feelings, and in no way a representation or confirmation of what the FCC feels. They are prety much at a no comment stage, lsitening to all the arguements and watching how things evolve. Without rules to go by, I don't see ANYONE putting money into it. Any idea what kind of rules for what equipment is allowed? What kind of certifications mechanism? They hinted at use any antenna rules, which is fine, but if we're stuck with a part-15 type of whole assembly certification, we're going back to the must buy only the big boy's solutions which...may never exist, as you say. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
I advise against this as you cannot use it for anything but testing (no commercial use at all). Any other use is against the law. Our WISPA attorney, Kris Twomey, can set you up if you want to run some 3650 tests. It is fairly easy to get an experimental license. It just won't make you a red cent. Scriv Tom DeReggi wrote: Part-15, Michael Anderson, was selling a quick instruction guide for obtaining 3650 temporary license, last year. You might want to ask him. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:30:38 -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote 3650 is complicated. Last month's FCC visit stated that they are getting close, and expect answers by Fall :-( Experimental licenses are available, allthough, would likely result in removing gear in a year. Can you point to any info on getting one? I'm hoping personally, that they rule to keep it 100% unlicensed (actually registered / Non-exclusive Free licensing, being almost the same as unlicensed) , 100% in tact, but get rid of contention based. My personal belief is that the delay of 3650 will have helped small WISPs. The reason is that Licensed 3650 in other countries has allowed Manufacturers to start scaling their production and doingtheir research. At the same time it kept Capitol rich US telecom out of the WISP business, while WISPs could take the time to get stronger and larger. Its possible that if they remove contention based, in a year WISPs would have virgin spectrum with LOW DOLLAR WiMax gear that they can afford by teh time the spectrum is usable. If it's left in, we can use variants of 802.11 gear NOW, and for relatively cheap, as well. Heck, whether it's in or out, it appears to be workable. Frankly, I could use it now. I have no issues with distance and eirp for 2.4 or 5.8 as it stands. I mean, I can find ways of dealing with those limitations. I can't deal with the interference nearly as well. I found both UDC's and antennas that could be built to comply for 3650 NOW, and the idea of some interference free backhauls certainly sounds good. Being required to pull them in a year or two doesn't sound catastrophic to me. But Telecoms would still ahve the uncertainty of Unlicensed, detering its use by large scale telecoms. The word is that WiMax does not work in non-Licensed, but as we know, allthough WiMax will undisputedly perform better in Licensed, it will perform JUST AS GOOD as our current legacy TDD gear (such as Trango and Motorola). However, if they insist on keeping Contention based, I personally do not think a manaufacturer will ever make gear to use the spectrum. It would be nice if 802.16H or equivellent succeeded in stepping up to the table (contention based WiMax), but personally I don;t think it will happen in our Small WISP lifetime (meaning before WISPs sell to RollUps :-). Although WISPA's position was to support Contention BAsed, and it was the right thing to do at the time, I beleive that will ahve to be compromised in order to get use of the spectrum. Just because I think so many manufacturers are fighting it. Its the near license Free model that is essential and can't be compromised. My view on this is because 5.8G equivellent spectrum is what is so scarce, and none of the allocations given to use allowed equivellent power, we need the 3650 power, bad. I read the last R O quite extensively and decided that there's no real great advantage to 3650. You can use 25 W ERP, but only if you use a 25 mhz wide channel. The narrower the channel, the lower the erp limits. Exactly how this plays out Thus, using narrower slices of the spectrum is not encouraged. One other apparently odd deficiency is that there's no ERP distinction between P2P and P2MP. You can use an omni at both ends of a P2P link without penalty, nor is there anything to encourage cleaner P2P use like the ISM 2.4 and 5.8 rules. Personally, I think the FCC is holding out, trying to force manufacturers to innovate and embrace the ideas of contention based. They are waiting for a manufacturer to show them it CAN and WILL be done, if they hold firm on the original rules. But if Manufacturers don;t cooperate and make something that can pass the requirement, teh FCC will effectively be squatting on the spectrum, and will probably give up on their ideals, and get pressure to find a way to make the spectrum usable. But that is just my personal feelings, and in no way a representation or confirmation of what the FCC feels. They are prety much at a no comment stage, lsitening to all the arguements and watching how things evolve. Without rules to go by, I don't see ANYONE putting money into it. Any idea what kind of rules for what equipment is allowed? What kind
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 23:51:00 -0600, John Scrivner wrote If that's Twomey's word, then that's better than giving Bullit 200 bucks, or whatever the price of his manual is. I merely wanted to see what backhauls worked like in the absense of noise, but I did want to load them with real life traffic, too. It would be a waste of time and money to build fake traffic for testing. I advise against this as you cannot use it for anything but testing (no commercial use at all). Any other use is against the law. Our WISPA attorney, Kris Twomey, can set you up if you want to run some 3650 tests. It is fairly easy to get an experimental license. It just won't make you a red cent. Scriv Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?
Let me add that experimental licenses can't be used to generate revenue; it's for testing purposes only. Commercial use is against the law. jack Tom DeReggi wrote: Part-15, Michael Anderson, was selling a quick instruction guide for obtaining 3650 temporary license, last year. You might want to ask him. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status? On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:30:38 -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote 3650 is complicated. Last month's FCC visit stated that they are getting close, and expect answers by Fall :-( Experimental licenses are available, allthough, would likely result in removing gear in a year. Can you point to any info on getting one? I'm hoping personally, that they rule to keep it 100% unlicensed (actually registered / Non-exclusive Free licensing, being almost the same as unlicensed) , 100% in tact, but get rid of contention based. My personal belief is that the delay of 3650 will have helped small WISPs. The reason is that Licensed 3650 in other countries has allowed Manufacturers to start scaling their production and doingtheir research. At the same time it kept Capitol rich US telecom out of the WISP business, while WISPs could take the time to get stronger and larger. Its possible that if they remove contention based, in a year WISPs would have virgin spectrum with LOW DOLLAR WiMax gear that they can afford by teh time the spectrum is usable. If it's left in, we can use variants of 802.11 gear NOW, and for relatively cheap, as well. Heck, whether it's in or out, it appears to be workable. Frankly, I could use it now. I have no issues with distance and eirp for 2.4 or 5.8 as it stands. I mean, I can find ways of dealing with those limitations. I can't deal with the interference nearly as well. I found both UDC's and antennas that could be built to comply for 3650 NOW, and the idea of some interference free backhauls certainly sounds good. Being required to pull them in a year or two doesn't sound catastrophic to me. But Telecoms would still ahve the uncertainty of Unlicensed, detering its use by large scale telecoms. The word is that WiMax does not work in non-Licensed, but as we know, allthough WiMax will undisputedly perform better in Licensed, it will perform JUST AS GOOD as our current legacy TDD gear (such as Trango and Motorola). However, if they insist on keeping Contention based, I personally do not think a manaufacturer will ever make gear to use the spectrum. It would be nice if 802.16H or equivellent succeeded in stepping up to the table (contention based WiMax), but personally I don;t think it will happen in our Small WISP lifetime (meaning before WISPs sell to RollUps :-). Although WISPA's position was to support Contention BAsed, and it was the right thing to do at the time, I beleive that will ahve to be compromised in order to get use of the spectrum. Just because I think so many manufacturers are fighting it. Its the near license Free model that is essential and can't be compromised. My view on this is because 5.8G equivellent spectrum is what is so scarce, and none of the allocations given to use allowed equivellent power, we need the 3650 power, bad. I read the last R O quite extensively and decided that there's no real great advantage to 3650. You can use 25 W ERP, but only if you use a 25 mhz wide channel. The narrower the channel, the lower the erp limits. Exactly how this plays out Thus, using narrower slices of the spectrum is not encouraged. One other apparently odd deficiency is that there's no ERP distinction between P2P and P2MP. You can use an omni at both ends of a P2P link without penalty, nor is there anything to encourage cleaner P2P use like the ISM 2.4 and 5.8 rules. Personally, I think the FCC is holding out, trying to force manufacturers to innovate and embrace the ideas of contention based. They are waiting for a manufacturer to show them it CAN and WILL be done, if they hold firm on the original rules. But if Manufacturers don;t cooperate and make something that can pass the requirement, teh FCC will effectively be squatting on the spectrum, and will probably give up on their ideals, and get pressure to find a way to make the spectrum usable. But that is just my personal feelings, and in no way a representation or confirmation of what the FCC feels. They are prety much at a no comment stage, lsitening to all the arguements and watching how things evolve. Without rules to go by, I don't see ANYONE putting money into it. Any idea what kind of rules for what equipment is allowed? What kind of certifications mechanism? They hinted at use any antenna rules, which is fine, but if we're stuck with a part-15 type of whole assembly certification, we're going
