Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 13:27 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I will like to know what the part costs from Imagestream as Newegg charges $45. That is not the same card that IS sells, by the way. Just because you can purchase an Intel Ethernet card at $45, doesn't mean it is the same card with the same performance specs as the $200 card, which is also an Intel Ethernet card. :-) -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
When I purchased the card from IS several years ago, it was a plain ol' Intel Desktop card. I matched the EXACT model number and purchased an additional card for a spare. At the time, they were EXACTLY the same cards (unless you think IS is making chip or firmware changes on the card itself?) Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 13:27 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I will like to know what the part costs from Imagestream as Newegg charges $45. That is not the same card that IS sells, by the way. Just because you can purchase an Intel Ethernet card at $45, doesn't mean it is the same card with the same performance specs as the $200 card, which is also an Intel Ethernet card. :-) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 09:27 -0600, Travis Johnson wrote: When I purchased the card from IS several years ago, it was a plain ol' Intel Desktop card. I matched the EXACT model number and purchased an additional card for a spare. At the time, they were EXACTLY the same cards (unless you think IS is making chip or firmware changes on the card itself?) No. This is the card that they no longer sell due to performance issues. It probably does fine in your network, but that just means it does fine for you. That $45 card (today) is what they sold for $125 (back then). When I ordered a card from them (this same card) a few years ago, I paid the $125. At that time, the card I purchased was selling (I can't remember where) for about $85. They only got about a $40 premium for keeping the warranty on my $5k router in tact. Seems like a no brainer to me, but I can't speak for anyone else... -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
It was a standard card, I did the same thing Travis. Its all a matter of supporting and having support for the product which was one of the main reasons for using their routers - the support was excellent. I understand paying more for the parts supports the company who supports me. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:27 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) When I purchased the card from IS several years ago, it was a plain ol' Intel Desktop card. I matched the EXACT model number and purchased an additional card for a spare. At the time, they were EXACTLY the same cards (unless you think IS is making chip or firmware changes on the card itself?) Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 13:27 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I will like to know what the part costs from Imagestream as Newegg charges $45. That is not the same card that IS sells, by the way. Just because you can purchase an Intel Ethernet card at $45, doesn't mean it is the same card with the same performance specs as the $200 card, which is also an Intel Ethernet card. :-) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Once the warranty is up on the hardware, you can basically do whatever you want with it. So long as the card works with the eepro100 or eepro1000 Linux driver, it will load just fine on an Imagestream router. Some fiber cards fall into that category also ;) But, regardless of who makes your router it is usually a good idea to buy parts from the manufacturer, or make sure that adding 3rd party stuff doesn't void your warranty. That being said, I believe they are using the Intel Pro/1000 PT server cards in the newer equipment (PCI Express). Those server cards do provide the performance from what I've seen and they average about $115 at various retailers. http://www.intel.com/products/server/adapters/pro1000pt/pro1000pt-overview.h tm On 4/22/10 10:19 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote: It was a standard card, I did the same thing Travis. Its all a matter of supporting and having support for the product which was one of the main reasons for using their routers - the support was excellent. I understand paying more for the parts supports the company who supports me. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:27 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) When I purchased the card from IS several years ago, it was a plain ol' Intel Desktop card. I matched the EXACT model number and purchased an additional card for a spare. At the time, they were EXACTLY the same cards (unless you think IS is making chip or firmware changes on the card itself?) Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 13:27 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I will like to know what the part costs from Imagestream as Newegg charges $45. That is not the same card that IS sells, by the way. Just because you can purchase an Intel Ethernet card at $45, doesn't mean it is the same card with the same performance specs as the $200 card, which is also an Intel Ethernet card. :-) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Just another two cents to add to the pot... Imagestream has been the best router company to work with I have ever seen (and I've been through lots of them). Their support, their hardware, their prices and their software have all been solid and top notch. I can count on one hand the vendors I feel this way about after being in the business for 20 years. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 1:39 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Welcome to Capitalism. The Vendor can charge and support what they want. We as the purchaser can decide to simply go w/ the flow they set ... OR ... buy elsewhere. While I personally believe companies like vYatta, PFSense, and others who give a list of supported hardware are wise in their approach - There is nothing wrong w/ how ImageStream is doing their model. Simple - if you don't like it - don't buy it. I would venture to say that those on the list who are complaining most do not have an ImageStream solution in place. There are alternatives - That being said - from what I have seen ImageStream seems to be an awesome solution - but some people like apples - other oranges. Some will only use cisco - others will use IS others will use vyatta and others who knows what -- I cannot blame any company for not supporting another companies hardware - and while I think the warranty voidance is crappy - I can more than understand the policy. If you had a client that installed a Cat 3 cable in place - vs cat 6 to the unit on the side of the house - thinking they were fixing it... would you not charge for the service call? What about the client that replaces it w/ cat 5 but crimps the ends wrong... It is hard to support what is not your own. Can't fault them - and if your not happy then simply buy something else WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. The secondary problem is cost : pfSense on Alix: $204 3 eth pfSense on soekris: $275-350 4 eth ImageStream
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Everyone is thinking it. Hint: take the card out before pulling warranty. On 4/16/10, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
How so Brad? We sell a complete, warranted, supported product. If you want to buy the pieces/parts and build your own, that's great (and I believe that you do). How can we warrant a product when we did not put sell all the gear that went in to it? If there is a product defect, how are we supposed to know if it is our gear or 3rd party gear that caused it? Believe me, there are enough variables in the process already. ImageStream provides a year warranty and a year of support (including 24/7 emergency support) with all of our routers above the little Envoy. We offer free lifetime software upgrades. We give a 31 Day Performance Guarantee with all of our routers. Is it too much to ask that all gear in the box come from us during that period? It's not like we charge Cisco prices for RAM, NICs, power supplies, etc. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can simply say you need to remove that card before we can help you...not just flat out void the warranty on the entire product. Anyway...just an opinion. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) How so Brad? We sell a complete, warranted, supported product. If you want to buy the pieces/parts and build your own, that's great (and I believe that you do). How can we warrant a product when we did not put sell all the gear that went in to it? If there is a product defect, how are we supposed to know if it is our gear or 3rd party gear that caused it? Believe me, there are enough variables in the process already. ImageStream provides a year warranty and a year of support (including 24/7 emergency support) with all of our routers above the little Envoy. We offer free lifetime software upgrades. We give a 31 Day Performance Guarantee with all of our routers. Is it too much to ask that all gear in the box come from us during that period? It's not like we charge Cisco prices for RAM, NICs, power supplies, etc. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Can you name a similiar manufacture that allows you to open their product, add 3rd party hardware yourself - and then still honor the original warranty? Doesn't seem too unreasonable to me that IS wants to provide a stable product and wants to keep the HW legit and the installation thereof professional and controlled. Earlier in this thread someone referenced ordering an intel NIC from Newegg- we once purchased 35 Gigabit Intel NICs from Newegg and one failed within 60 days. We RMAed it directly to Intel who KEPT the NIC, wrote me a letter back saying the NIC is not a legit Intel NIC but a China immitation - furthermore Newegg is NOT an authorized Intel reseller and buys their junk from non-authorized China distributors. Before whole thing was done Newegg refunded me over $1k for the batch of cards that we kept. So you install your own Intel NIC that works with IS so you can save what- $100? NIC acts funny and you blame IS or bog down their support. I think of all the pinches IS support has bailed me out of.. I'll keep backing IS.. Thanks, ‘S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:24 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/ support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Gotta disagree Brad- show me the price point differences between any Cisco and IS that are comporable - don't forget TCO for OS upgrades etc. Are you suggesting Cisco provides a cheaper HW upgrade solution? This is like pulling your car into the oil change station, handing the guy 5 qt of your own oil that you purchased for a few bucks cheaper and a new air filter.. Doesn't work that way- everyone needs a business model that's profitable. Thanks, ‘S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can simply say you need to remove that card before we can help you...not just flat out void the warranty on the entire product. Anyway...just an opinion. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) How so Brad? We sell a complete, warranted, supported product. If you want to buy the pieces/parts and build your own, that's great (and I believe that you do). How can we warrant a product when we did not put sell all the gear that went in to it? If there is a product defect, how are we supposed to know if it is our gear or 3rd party gear that caused it? Believe me, there are enough variables in the process already. ImageStream provides a year warranty and a year of support (including 24/7 emergency support) with all of our routers above the little Envoy. We offer free lifetime software upgrades. We give a 31 Day Performance Guarantee with all of our routers. Is it too much to ask that all gear in the box come from us during that period? It's not like we charge Cisco prices for RAM, NICs, power supplies, etc. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/ support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
I would guess that Cisco will honor if you add a Cisco built card, but not third party and only if you don't open the case. Brad Belton wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can simply say you need to remove that card before we can help you...not just flat out void the warranty on the entire product. Anyway...just an opinion. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) How so Brad? We sell a complete, warranted, supported product. If you want to buy the pieces/parts and build your own, that's great (and I believe that you do). How can we warrant a product when we did not put sell all the gear that went in to it? If there is a product defect, how are we supposed to know if it is our gear or 3rd party gear that caused it? Believe me, there are enough variables in the process already. ImageStream provides a year warranty and a year of support (including 24/7 emergency support) with all of our routers above the little Envoy. We offer free lifetime software upgrades. We give a 31 Day Performance Guarantee with all of our routers. Is it too much to ask that all gear in the box come from us during that period? It's not like we charge Cisco prices for RAM, NICs, power supplies, etc. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
I completely agree if the card installed is 3rd party and completely different than what Imagestream, Cisco or any OEM sells. The point is If the card is exactly the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Gotta disagree Brad- show me the price point differences between any Cisco and IS that are comporable - don't forget TCO for OS upgrades etc. Are you suggesting Cisco provides a cheaper HW upgrade solution? This is like pulling your car into the oil change station, handing the guy 5 qt of your own oil that you purchased for a few bucks cheaper and a new air filter.. Doesn't work that way- everyone needs a business model that's profitable. Thanks, ‘S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can simply say you need to remove that card before we can help you...not just flat out void the warranty on the entire product. Anyway...just an opinion. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) How so Brad? We sell a complete, warranted, supported product. If you want to buy the pieces/parts and build your own, that's great (and I believe that you do). How can we warrant a product when we did not put sell all the gear that went in to it? If there is a product defect, how are we supposed to know if it is our gear or 3rd party gear that caused it? Believe me, there are enough variables in the process already. ImageStream provides a year warranty and a year of support (including 24/7 emergency support) with all of our routers above the little Envoy. We offer free lifetime software upgrades. We give a 31 Day Performance Guarantee with all of our routers. Is it too much to ask that all gear in the box come from us during that period? It's not like we charge Cisco prices for RAM, NICs, power supplies, etc. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/ support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
The joys of x86 hardware...lower cost with a chance of additional discussion. I've not looked at a price for the card individually as I have not needed it, but maybe we can get an MSRP for it? If it's another $25 or something who cares, but I have been told verbally it is much much higher. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.netwrote: I would guess that Cisco will honor if you add a Cisco built card, but not third party and only if you don't open the case. Brad Belton wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can simply say you need to remove that card before we can help you...not just flat out void the warranty on the entire product. Anyway...just an opinion. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) How so Brad? We sell a complete, warranted, supported product. If you want to buy the pieces/parts and build your own, that's great (and I believe that you do). How can we warrant a product when we did not put sell all the gear that went in to it? If there is a product defect, how are we supposed to know if it is our gear or 3rd party gear that caused it? Believe me, there are enough variables in the process already. ImageStream provides a year warranty and a year of support (including 24/7 emergency support) with all of our routers above the little Envoy. We offer free lifetime software upgrades. We give a 31 Day Performance Guarantee with all of our routers. Is it too much to ask that all gear in the box come from us during that period? It's not like we charge Cisco prices for RAM, NICs, power supplies, etc. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Right, and that's pretty easy since there aren't really 3rd party Cisco cards (counterfeit doesn't count). You can add intel NICs to older PIXs but that involves breaking warranty stickers. Gotta say Imagestream's stance on this is normal. On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net wrote: I would guess that Cisco will honor if you add a Cisco built card, but not third party and only if you don't open the case. Brad Belton wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can simply say you need to remove that card before we can help you...not just flat out void the warranty on the entire product. Anyway...just an opinion. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) How so Brad? We sell a complete, warranted, supported product. If you want to buy the pieces/parts and build your own, that's great (and I believe that you do). How can we warrant a product when we did not put sell all the gear that went in to it? If there is a product defect, how are we supposed to know if it is our gear or 3rd party gear that caused it? Believe me, there are enough variables in the process already. ImageStream provides a year warranty and a year of support (including 24/7 emergency support) with all of our routers above the little Envoy. We offer free lifetime software upgrades. We give a 31 Day Performance Guarantee with all of our routers. Is it too much to ask that all gear in the box come from us during that period? It's not like we charge Cisco prices for RAM, NICs, power supplies, etc. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
K- be sure to call newegg at 3am when your core router is acting up and have them walk you thru a solution. Sorry- I just don't like seeing IS bashed when I think their pricing is fair- you're buying HW, support, and profit. Aren't you guys in business yourself? Would you let your customers modify your Internet service equipment so they could save a few bucks by not buying from you since you charge more? Is your router really the device on your network where your decisions are made on price only? Ok- said my bit! Don't want to sound all crabby or anything. (: Thanks, ‘S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The joys of x86 hardware...lower cost with a chance of additional discussion. I've not looked at a price for the card individually as I have not needed it, but maybe we can get an MSRP for it? If it's another $25 or something who cares, but I have been told verbally it is much much higher. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to co ntinue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net wrote: I would guess that Cisco will honor if you add a Cisco built card, but not third party and only if you don't open the case. Brad Belton wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can simply say you need to remove that card before we can help you...not just flat out void the warranty on the entire product. Anyway...just an opinion. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) How so Brad? We sell a complete, warranted, supported product. If you want to buy the pieces/parts and build your own, that's great (and I believe that you do). How can we warrant a product when we did not put sell all the gear that went in to it? If there is a product defect, how are we supposed to know if it is our gear or 3rd party gear that caused it? Believe me, there are enough variables in the process already. ImageStream provides a year warranty and a year of support (including 24/7 emergency support) with all of our routers above the little Envoy. We offer free lifetime software upgrades. We give a 31 Day Performance Guarantee with all of our routers. Is it too much to ask that all gear in the box come from us during that period? It's not like we charge Cisco prices for RAM, NICs, power supplies, etc. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/ support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Actually, every oil change place in this area will do that for you. Lots of people want to run things like AMSoil, etc. Travis Microserv Scott Vander Dussen wrote: Gotta disagree Brad- show me the price point differences between any Cisco and IS that are comporable - don't forget TCO for OS upgrades etc. Are you suggesting Cisco provides a cheaper HW upgrade solution? This is like pulling your car into the oil change station, handing the guy 5 qt of your own oil that you purchased for a few bucks cheaper and a new air filter.. Doesn't work that way- everyone needs a business model that's profitable. Thanks, ‘S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can simply say you need to remove that card before we can help you...not just flat out void the warranty on the entire product. Anyway...just an opinion. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) How so Brad? We sell a complete, warranted, supported product. If you want to buy the pieces/parts and build your own, that's great (and I believe that you do). How can we warrant a product when we did not put sell all the gear that went in to it? If there is a product defect, how are we supposed to know if it is our gear or 3rd party gear that caused it? Believe me, there are enough variables in the process already. ImageStream provides a year warranty and a year of support (including 24/7 emergency support) with all of our routers above the little Envoy. We offer free lifetime software upgrades. We give a 31 Day Performance Guarantee with all of our routers. Is it too much to ask that all gear in the box come from us during that period? It's not like we charge Cisco prices for RAM, NICs, power supplies, etc. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/ support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
The point is If the card is EXACTLY the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 12:20 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Last I heard Cisco don't provide free firmware upgrade/warranty especially on resold products unless specific IOS license is purchased with the reselling. Cisco don't provide free support period. With the myriad of PC based cards out there I don't blame IS for not providing warranty support on third party cards installed in their routers. How do you know that card isn't a cheap knock off card. Further even if it's not a knock off card maybe the revision of the card is newer or older then what IS provides and have tested out to work with their software. So should they then support a card they didn't make anything at all from selling and that they have not tested to work in their software solution? What if they came to the conclusion that specific card don't work well at all and simply decided to not offer this particular card and you buy and install this card in your IS router why should they support and warranty their router just to track it down to a non certified third party card being installed in your router? If they find this IMO it wouldn't be too much to ask for compensation for the technical support assistance you where given on a none IS product. Just like most ISPs they have their demarcation point at the Ethernet side on their CPE when they provide the CPE. So if there are issues with the client they do testing of the Ethernet side on the CPE and if everything works out well and the customer want you to trouble shoot further to see what is wrong with their computer or router almost all ISPs I talked to charge for it or they go so far as provide free broadband routers that they trust. I'm sure there are those that set themselves apart and will help out for free especially if the client is a higher $$ client or the client has a router the ISP trust in and like. I see little difference between these here. IS provide a boxed solution that can be expanded. They support and warrant their products, their cards they provide for the products because they know they work with their hardware and their software. If it doesn't they will fix it. Where is the incentive for them to fix a problem with a NIC card they didn't sell and earned any money for? When they sold the router they have appropriate margin to handle warranty and support on that particular product. If you want another card you might pay a bit of a premium over a third party card but that is the extra you pay for the extended warranty and support to handle this product as well. Just my 2 cents. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) I completely agree if the card installed is 3rd party and completely different than what Imagestream, Cisco or any OEM sells. The point is If the card is exactly the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Gotta disagree Brad- show me the price point differences between any Cisco and IS that are comporable - don't forget TCO for OS upgrades etc. Are you suggesting Cisco provides a cheaper HW upgrade solution? This is like pulling your car into the oil change station, handing the guy 5 qt of your own oil that you purchased for a few bucks cheaper and a new air filter.. Doesn't work that way- everyone needs a business model that's profitable. Thanks, ‘S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can simply say
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
What everyone is saying is the Cisco is not Imagestream. I think we can all be very very very thankful of that. It's an Imagestream policy not to put in third party parts. Follow it or don't, it is your choice. I will like to know what the part costs from Imagestream as Newegg charges $45. On 4/16/10, Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Last I heard Cisco don't provide free firmware upgrade/warranty especially on resold products unless specific IOS license is purchased with the reselling. Cisco don't provide free support period. With the myriad of PC based cards out there I don't blame IS for not providing warranty support on third party cards installed in their routers. How do you know that card isn't a cheap knock off card. Further even if it's not a knock off card maybe the revision of the card is newer or older then what IS provides and have tested out to work with their software. So should they then support a card they didn't make anything at all from selling and that they have not tested to work in their software solution? What if they came to the conclusion that specific card don't work well at all and simply decided to not offer this particular card and you buy and install this card in your IS router why should they support and warranty their router just to track it down to a non certified third party card being installed in your router? If they find this IMO it wouldn't be too much to ask for compensation for the technical support assistance you where given on a none IS product. Just like most ISPs they have their demarcation point at the Ethernet side on their CPE when they provide the CPE. So if there are issues with the client they do testing of the Ethernet side on the CPE and if everything works out well and the customer want you to trouble shoot further to see what is wrong with their computer or router almost all ISPs I talked to charge for it or they go so far as provide free broadband routers that they trust. I'm sure there are those that set themselves apart and will help out for free especially if the client is a higher $$ client or the client has a router the ISP trust in and like. I see little difference between these here. IS provide a boxed solution that can be expanded. They support and warrant their products, their cards they provide for the products because they know they work with their hardware and their software. If it doesn't they will fix it. Where is the incentive for them to fix a problem with a NIC card they didn't sell and earned any money for? When they sold the router they have appropriate margin to handle warranty and support on that particular product. If you want another card you might pay a bit of a premium over a third party card but that is the extra you pay for the extended warranty and support to handle this product as well. Just my 2 cents. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) I completely agree if the card installed is 3rd party and completely different than what Imagestream, Cisco or any OEM sells. The point is If the card is exactly the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Gotta disagree Brad- show me the price point differences between any Cisco and IS that are comporable - don't forget TCO for OS upgrades etc. Are you suggesting Cisco provides a cheaper HW upgrade solution? This is like pulling your car into the oil change station, handing the guy 5 qt of your own oil that you purchased for a few bucks cheaper and a new air filter.. Doesn't work that way- everyone needs a business model that's profitable. Thanks, ‘S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can simply say you need to remove that card before we can help you...not just flat out void the warranty
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Welcome to Capitalism. The Vendor can charge and support what they want. We as the purchaser can decide to simply go w/ the flow they set ... OR ... buy elsewhere. While I personally believe companies like vYatta, PFSense, and others who give a list of supported hardware are wise in their approach - There is nothing wrong w/ how ImageStream is doing their model. Simple - if you don't like it - don't buy it. I would venture to say that those on the list who are complaining most do not have an ImageStream solution in place. There are alternatives - That being said - from what I have seen ImageStream seems to be an awesome solution - but some people like apples - other oranges. Some will only use cisco - others will use IS others will use vyatta and others who knows what -- I cannot blame any company for not supporting another companies hardware - and while I think the warranty voidance is crappy - I can more than understand the policy. If you had a client that installed a Cat 3 cable in place - vs cat 6 to the unit on the side of the house - thinking they were fixing it... would you not charge for the service call? What about the client that replaces it w/ cat 5 but crimps the ends wrong... It is hard to support what is not your own. Can't fault them - and if your not happy then simply buy something else WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
We just bought a 2 port copper gig card for $1000+. Not sure what the same card would cost otherwise. -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:27:08 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) What everyone is saying is the Cisco is not Imagestream. I think we can all be very very very thankful of that. It's an Imagestream policy not to put in third party parts. Follow it or don't, it is your choice. I will like to know what the part costs from Imagestream as Newegg charges $45. On 4/16/10, Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Last I heard Cisco don't provide free firmware upgrade/warranty especially on resold products unless specific IOS license is purchased with the reselling. Cisco don't provide free support period. With the myriad of PC based cards out there I don't blame IS for not providing warranty support on third party cards installed in their routers. How do you know that card isn't a cheap knock off card. Further even if it's not a knock off card maybe the revision of the card is newer or older then what IS provides and have tested out to work with their software. So should they then support a card they didn't make anything at all from selling and that they have not tested to work in their software solution? What if they came to the conclusion that specific card don't work well at all and simply decided to not offer this particular card and you buy and install this card in your IS router why should they support and warranty their router just to track it down to a non certified third party card being installed in your router? If they find this IMO it wouldn't be too much to ask for compensation for the technical support assistance you where given on a none IS product. Just like most ISPs they have their demarcation point at the Ethernet side on their CPE when they provide the CPE. So if there are issues with the client they do testing of the Ethernet side on the CPE and if everything works out well and the customer want you to trouble shoot further to see what is wrong with their computer or router almost all ISPs I talked to charge for it or they go so far as provide free broadband routers that they trust. I'm sure there are those that set themselves apart and will help out for free especially if the client is a higher $$ client or the client has a router the ISP trust in and like. I see little difference between these here. IS provide a boxed solution that can be expanded. They support and warrant their products, their cards they provide for the products because they know they work with their hardware and their software. If it doesn't they will fix it. Where is the incentive for them to fix a problem with a NIC card they didn't sell and earned any money for? When they sold the router they have appropriate margin to handle warranty and support on that particular product. If you want another card you might pay a bit of a premium over a third party card but that is the extra you pay for the extended warranty and support to handle this product as well. Just my 2 cents. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) I completely agree if the card installed is 3rd party and completely different than what Imagestream, Cisco or any OEM sells. The point is If the card is exactly the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Gotta disagree Brad- show me the price point differences between any Cisco and IS that are comporable - don't forget TCO for OS upgrades etc. Are you suggesting Cisco provides a cheaper HW upgrade solution? This is like pulling your car into the oil change station, handing the guy 5 qt of your own oil that you purchased for a few bucks cheaper and a new air filter.. Doesn't work that way- everyone needs a business model that's profitable. Thanks, S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Was it this one..? http://www.amazon.com/Single-Bulk-Intel-Server-Adapter/dp/B000BMXME8 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: We just bought a 2 port copper gig card for $1000+. Not sure what the same card would cost otherwise. -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:27:08 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) What everyone is saying is the Cisco is not Imagestream. I think we can all be very very very thankful of that. It's an Imagestream policy not to put in third party parts. Follow it or don't, it is your choice. I will like to know what the part costs from Imagestream as Newegg charges $45. On 4/16/10, Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Last I heard Cisco don't provide free firmware upgrade/warranty especially on resold products unless specific IOS license is purchased with the reselling. Cisco don't provide free support period. With the myriad of PC based cards out there I don't blame IS for not providing warranty support on third party cards installed in their routers. How do you know that card isn't a cheap knock off card. Further even if it's not a knock off card maybe the revision of the card is newer or older then what IS provides and have tested out to work with their software. So should they then support a card they didn't make anything at all from selling and that they have not tested to work in their software solution? What if they came to the conclusion that specific card don't work well at all and simply decided to not offer this particular card and you buy and install this card in your IS router why should they support and warranty their router just to track it down to a non certified third party card being installed in your router? If they find this IMO it wouldn't be too much to ask for compensation for the technical support assistance you where given on a none IS product. Just like most ISPs they have their demarcation point at the Ethernet side on their CPE when they provide the CPE. So if there are issues with the client they do testing of the Ethernet side on the CPE and if everything works out well and the customer want you to trouble shoot further to see what is wrong with their computer or router almost all ISPs I talked to charge for it or they go so far as provide free broadband routers that they trust. I'm sure there are those that set themselves apart and will help out for free especially if the client is a higher $$ client or the client has a router the ISP trust in and like. I see little difference between these here. IS provide a boxed solution that can be expanded. They support and warrant their products, their cards they provide for the products because they know they work with their hardware and their software. If it doesn't they will fix it. Where is the incentive for them to fix a problem with a NIC card they didn't sell and earned any money for? When they sold the router they have appropriate margin to handle warranty and support on that particular product. If you want another card you might pay a bit of a premium over a third party card but that is the extra you pay for the extended warranty and support to handle this product as well. Just my 2 cents. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) I completely agree if the card installed is 3rd party and completely different than what Imagestream, Cisco or any OEM sells. The point is If the card is exactly the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Gotta disagree Brad- show me the price point differences between any Cisco and IS that are comporable - don't forget TCO for OS upgrades etc. Are you suggesting Cisco provides a cheaper HW upgrade solution? This is like pulling your car into the oil change station, handing the guy 5 qt of your own oil that you
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
I don¹t think it¹s a IS vs. Cisco vs. whatever sort of thing. It¹s someone trying to understand why the same card is much more expensive OEM. Maybe there is something different about it. The geeks out there have inquiring minds. Otherwise they would not have taken the time to find out it is the same card. Maybe hardware wise it is, but has special firmware. Maybe not. Maybe it¹s simply a ³because we can² sort of thing. I am sure RD went into selecting the perfect card so those costs have to be factored in. You have to remember the audience. Many are geeks who want to understand why the hardware they are considering is the way it is. A good network geek asks questions for several reasons: 1.Many managers are not idiots. They will question why they should buy something (in this case a card) from a company when they can get it for X amount of dollars from somewhere else. They might have a hard time swallowing the argument ³Because the manufacturer says so² even if it is the correct answer. 2.A good network admin will understand the parts of devices which ensure their network is running. Nothing reflecting on Imagestream at all from what I read. The geeks just have inquiring minds. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:39:24 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Welcome to Capitalism. The Vendor can charge and support what they want. We as the purchaser can decide to simply go w/ the flow they set ... OR ... buy elsewhere. While I personally believe companies like vYatta, PFSense, and others who give a list of supported hardware are wise in their approach - There is nothing wrong w/ how ImageStream is doing their model. Simple - if you don't like it - don't buy it. I would venture to say that those on the list who are complaining most do not have an ImageStream solution in place. There are alternatives - That being said - from what I have seen ImageStream seems to be an awesome solution - but some people like apples - other oranges. Some will only use cisco - others will use IS others will use vyatta and others who knows what -- I cannot blame any company for not supporting another companies hardware - and while I think the warranty voidance is crappy - I can more than understand the policy. If you had a client that installed a Cat 3 cable in place - vs cat 6 to the unit on the side of the house - thinking they were fixing it... would you not charge for the service call? What about the client that replaces it w/ cat 5 but crimps the ends wrong... It is hard to support what is not your own. Can't fault them - and if your not happy then simply buy something else WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Last time we purchased one (3-4 years ago) I think it was $125. Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: What everyone is saying is the Cisco is not Imagestream. I think we can all be very very very thankful of that. It's an Imagestream policy not to put in third party parts. Follow it or don't, it is your choice. I will like to know what the part costs from Imagestream as Newegg charges $45. On 4/16/10, Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Last I heard Cisco don't provide free firmware upgrade/warranty especially on resold products unless specific IOS license is purchased with the reselling. Cisco don't provide free support period. With the myriad of PC based cards out there I don't blame IS for not providing warranty support on third party cards installed in their routers. How do you know that card isn't a cheap knock off card. Further even if it's not a knock off card maybe the revision of the card is newer or older then what IS provides and have tested out to work with their software. So should they then support a card they didn't make anything at all from selling and that they have not tested to work in their software solution? What if they came to the conclusion that specific card don't work well at all and simply decided to not offer this particular card and you buy and install this card in your IS router why should they support and warranty their router just to track it down to a non certified third party card being installed in your router? If they find this IMO it wouldn't be too much to ask for compensation for the technical support assistance you where given on a none IS product. Just like most ISPs they have their demarcation point at the Ethernet side on their CPE when they provide the CPE. So if there are issues with the client they do testing of the Ethernet side on the CPE and if everything works out well and the customer want you to trouble shoot further to see what is wrong with their computer or router almost all ISPs I talked to charge for it or they go so far as provide free broadband routers that they trust. I'm sure there are those that set themselves apart and will help out for free especially if the client is a higher $$ client or the client has a router the ISP trust in and like. I see little difference between these here. IS provide a boxed solution that can be expanded. They support and warrant their products, their cards they provide for the products because they know they work with their hardware and their software. If it doesn't they will fix it. Where is the incentive for them to fix a problem with a NIC card they didn't sell and earned any money for? When they sold the router they have appropriate margin to handle warranty and support on that particular product. If you want another card you might pay a bit of a premium over a third party card but that is the extra you pay for the extended warranty and support to handle this product as well. Just my 2 cents. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) I completely agree if the card installed is 3rd party and completely different than what Imagestream, Cisco or any OEM sells. The point is If the card is exactly the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Gotta disagree Brad- show me the price point differences between any Cisco and IS that are comporable - don't forget TCO for OS upgrades etc. Are you suggesting Cisco provides a cheaper HW upgrade solution? This is like pulling your car into the oil change station, handing the guy 5 qt of your own oil that you purchased for a few bucks cheaper and a new air filter.. Doesn't work that way- everyone needs a business model that's profitable. Thanks, ‘S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
It might be exactly the same and it might not be Brad. I don't know. What I can tell you is that, in 10 years, I can't recall ever having to enforce this policy. Do you know of any other manufacturer who has support, warranty, and the router distro license follow the serial number of the router, not the customer? We recently did a lot of work for someone who was given some gear by one of our customers, much of it under warranty. We don't sell seat licenses for various levels of VPN tunnels, or anything else for that matter. Hardware incompatibility issues are some of the most complex things that we have to work through in support. It's often like chasing ghosts. Recreating the actual problem often requires putting together an identical router in our lab. You and I have debated this sort of thing several times, publically and privately. I respect you, and I respect your right to disagree with me. I'm proud of ImageStream and how we care for our customers. We aren't perfect, but we do everything in our power to help our customers. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 1:25 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) The point is If the card is EXACTLY the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 12:20 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Last I heard Cisco don't provide free firmware upgrade/warranty especially on resold products unless specific IOS license is purchased with the reselling. Cisco don't provide free support period. With the myriad of PC based cards out there I don't blame IS for not providing warranty support on third party cards installed in their routers. How do you know that card isn't a cheap knock off card. Further even if it's not a knock off card maybe the revision of the card is newer or older then what IS provides and have tested out to work with their software. So should they then support a card they didn't make anything at all from selling and that they have not tested to work in their software solution? What if they came to the conclusion that specific card don't work well at all and simply decided to not offer this particular card and you buy and install this card in your IS router why should they support and warranty their router just to track it down to a non certified third party card being installed in your router? If they find this IMO it wouldn't be too much to ask for compensation for the technical support assistance you where given on a none IS product. Just like most ISPs they have their demarcation point at the Ethernet side on their CPE when they provide the CPE. So if there are issues with the client they do testing of the Ethernet side on the CPE and if everything works out well and the customer want you to trouble shoot further to see what is wrong with their computer or router almost all ISPs I talked to charge for it or they go so far as provide free broadband routers that they trust. I'm sure there are those that set themselves apart and will help out for free especially if the client is a higher $$ client or the client has a router the ISP trust in and like. I see little difference between these here. IS provide a boxed solution that can be expanded. They support and warrant their products, their cards they provide for the products because they know they work with their hardware and their software. If it doesn't they will fix it. Where is the incentive for them to fix a problem with a NIC card they didn't sell and earned any money for? When they sold the router they have appropriate margin to handle warranty and support on that particular product. If you want another card you might pay a bit of a premium over a third party card but that is the extra you pay for the extended warranty and support to handle this product as well. Just my 2 cents. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) I completely agree if the card installed is 3rd party and completely different than what Imagestream, Cisco or any OEM sells. The point is If the card is exactly the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Brad -Original
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Hi Travis, We generally don't sell that card anymore. We weren't able to get the performance that we wanted. Our 10/100/1000 NIC (both PCI and PCIe) are now $295. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Last time we purchased one (3-4 years ago) I think it was $125. Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: What everyone is saying is the Cisco is not Imagestream. I think we can all be very very very thankful of that. It's an Imagestream policy not to put in third party parts. Follow it or don't, it is your choice. I will like to know what the part costs from Imagestream as Newegg charges $45. On 4/16/10, Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Last I heard Cisco don't provide free firmware upgrade/warranty especially on resold products unless specific IOS license is purchased with the reselling. Cisco don't provide free support period. With the myriad of PC based cards out there I don't blame IS for not providing warranty support on third party cards installed in their routers. How do you know that card isn't a cheap knock off card. Further even if it's not a knock off card maybe the revision of the card is newer or older then what IS provides and have tested out to work with their software. So should they then support a card they didn't make anything at all from selling and that they have not tested to work in their software solution? What if they came to the conclusion that specific card don't work well at all and simply decided to not offer this particular card and you buy and install this card in your IS router why should they support and warranty their router just to track it down to a non certified third party card being installed in your router? If they find this IMO it wouldn't be too much to ask for compensation for the technical support assistance you where given on a none IS product. Just like most ISPs they have their demarcation point at the Ethernet side on their CPE when they provide the CPE. So if there are issues with the client they do testing of the Ethernet side on the CPE and if everything works out well and the customer want you to trouble shoot further to see what is wrong with their computer or router almost all ISPs I talked to charge for it or they go so far as provide free broadband routers that they trust. I'm sure there are those that set themselves apart and will help out for free especially if the client is a higher $$ client or the client has a router the ISP trust in and like. I see little difference between these here. IS provide a boxed solution that can be expanded. They support and warrant their products, their cards they provide for the products because they know they work with their hardware and their software. If it doesn't they will fix it. Where is the incentive for them to fix a problem with a NIC card they didn't sell and earned any money for? When they sold the router they have appropriate margin to handle warranty and support on that particular product. If you want another card you might pay a bit of a premium over a third party card but that is the extra you pay for the extended warranty and support to handle this product as well. Just my 2 cents. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) I completely agree if the card installed is 3rd party and completely different than what Imagestream, Cisco or any OEM sells. The point is If the card is exactly the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Gotta disagree Brad- show me the price point differences between any Cisco and IS that are comporable - don't forget TCO for OS upgrades etc. Are you suggesting Cisco provides a cheaper HW upgrade solution? This is like pulling your car into the oil change station, handing the guy 5 qt of your own oil that you purchased for a few bucks cheaper and a new air filter.. Doesn't work that way- everyone needs a business model that's profitable. Thanks, 'S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
One thing that we DO do is allow a user to add their own Linux-based programs to the user space. I don't know of anyone else that does that. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Can you name a similiar manufacture that allows you to open their product, add 3rd party hardware yourself - and then still honor the original warranty? Doesn't seem too unreasonable to me that IS wants to provide a stable product and wants to keep the HW legit and the installation thereof professional and controlled. Earlier in this thread someone referenced ordering an intel NIC from Newegg- we once purchased 35 Gigabit Intel NICs from Newegg and one failed within 60 days. We RMAed it directly to Intel who KEPT the NIC, wrote me a letter back saying the NIC is not a legit Intel NIC but a China immitation - furthermore Newegg is NOT an authorized Intel reseller and buys their junk from non-authorized China distributors. Before whole thing was done Newegg refunded me over $1k for the batch of cards that we kept. So you install your own Intel NIC that works with IS so you can save what- $100? NIC acts funny and you blame IS or bog down their support. I think of all the pinches IS support has bailed me out of.. I'll keep backing IS.. Thanks, 'S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:24 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/ support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
About that Paul sent me a bad link for iperf and never got back to me. On 4/16/10, Jeff Broadwick jeffl...@comcast.net wrote: One thing that we DO do is allow a user to add their own Linux-based programs to the user space. I don't know of anyone else that does that. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Can you name a similiar manufacture that allows you to open their product, add 3rd party hardware yourself - and then still honor the original warranty? Doesn't seem too unreasonable to me that IS wants to provide a stable product and wants to keep the HW legit and the installation thereof professional and controlled. Earlier in this thread someone referenced ordering an intel NIC from Newegg- we once purchased 35 Gigabit Intel NICs from Newegg and one failed within 60 days. We RMAed it directly to Intel who KEPT the NIC, wrote me a letter back saying the NIC is not a legit Intel NIC but a China immitation - furthermore Newegg is NOT an authorized Intel reseller and buys their junk from non-authorized China distributors. Before whole thing was done Newegg refunded me over $1k for the batch of cards that we kept. So you install your own Intel NIC that works with IS so you can save what- $100? NIC acts funny and you blame IS or bog down their support. I think of all the pinches IS support has bailed me out of.. I'll keep backing IS.. Thanks, 'S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:24 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/ support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
On 04/16/2010 10:00 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote: Gotta disagree Brad- show me the price point differences between any Cisco and IS that are comporable - don't forget TCO for OS upgrades etc. Are you suggesting Cisco provides a cheaper HW upgrade solution? This is like pulling your car into the oil change station, handing the guy 5 qt of your own oil that you purchased for a few bucks cheaper and a new air filter.. Doesn't work that way- everyone needs a You need an OIL filter with the oil, not an air filter -- just had too. business model that's profitable. Thanks, ‘S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can simply say you need to remove that card before we can help you...not just flat out void the warranty on the entire product. Anyway...just an opinion. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) How so Brad? We sell a complete, warranted, supported product. If you want to buy the pieces/parts and build your own, that's great (and I believe that you do). How can we warrant a product when we did not put sell all the gear that went in to it? If there is a product defect, how are we supposed to know if it is our gear or 3rd party gear that caused it? Believe me, there are enough variables in the process already. ImageStream provides a year warranty and a year of support (including 24/7 emergency support) with all of our routers above the little Envoy. We offer free lifetime software upgrades. We give a 31 Day Performance Guarantee with all of our routers. Is it too much to ask that all gear in the box come from us during that period? It's not like we charge Cisco prices for RAM, NICs, power supplies, etc. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/ support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
The one I have doesn't have PCI-express slots, just standard 32 bit PCI. I guess I can use the Intel dual 1000 cards: altho looking on-line the edge connector looks longer than the regular PCI slot, or is that an optical illusion? Tom S. - Original Message - From: Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Tom, You might want to check if that imagestream 2006 MoBo has pci-e slots in it Josh Luthman wrote: You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. The secondary problem is cost : pfSense on Alix: $204 3 eth pfSense on soekris
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
The one I have doesn't have PCI-express slots, just standard 32 bit PCI. I guess I can use the Intel dual 1000 cards: http://www.intel.com/products/server/adapters/pro1000mt-dualport/pro1000mt-dualport-overview.htm altho looking on-line the edge connector is longer than the regular PCI slot. Is that for another style of PCI? Tom S. - Original Message - From: Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Tom, You might want to check if that imagestream 2006 MoBo has pci-e slots in it Josh Luthman wrote: You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. The secondary
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Jeff, Tone via email is hard to convey...grin, but I did warn this morning that I caught your voiding warranty email at a bad time. lol Certainly I agree ImageStream is a great breath of fresh air as compared to Cisco and many, many other products available. We have all heard and read how terrific the ImageStream products and support is. Additionally, our small group of fixed wireless operators is extremely fortunate to have an ImageStream representative monitoring and participating on this list. Without question hats off to ImageStream. I too have a great deal of respect for Jeff and the company he works for. In fact I think we may be seeing you guys down here in Texas soon for a training. No? Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 1:07 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) It might be exactly the same and it might not be Brad. I don't know. What I can tell you is that, in 10 years, I can't recall ever having to enforce this policy. Do you know of any other manufacturer who has support, warranty, and the router distro license follow the serial number of the router, not the customer? We recently did a lot of work for someone who was given some gear by one of our customers, much of it under warranty. We don't sell seat licenses for various levels of VPN tunnels, or anything else for that matter. Hardware incompatibility issues are some of the most complex things that we have to work through in support. It's often like chasing ghosts. Recreating the actual problem often requires putting together an identical router in our lab. You and I have debated this sort of thing several times, publically and privately. I respect you, and I respect your right to disagree with me. I'm proud of ImageStream and how we care for our customers. We aren't perfect, but we do everything in our power to help our customers. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 1:25 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) The point is If the card is EXACTLY the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 12:20 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Last I heard Cisco don't provide free firmware upgrade/warranty especially on resold products unless specific IOS license is purchased with the reselling. Cisco don't provide free support period. With the myriad of PC based cards out there I don't blame IS for not providing warranty support on third party cards installed in their routers. How do you know that card isn't a cheap knock off card. Further even if it's not a knock off card maybe the revision of the card is newer or older then what IS provides and have tested out to work with their software. So should they then support a card they didn't make anything at all from selling and that they have not tested to work in their software solution? What if they came to the conclusion that specific card don't work well at all and simply decided to not offer this particular card and you buy and install this card in your IS router why should they support and warranty their router just to track it down to a non certified third party card being installed in your router? If they find this IMO it wouldn't be too much to ask for compensation for the technical support assistance you where given on a none IS product. Just like most ISPs they have their demarcation point at the Ethernet side on their CPE when they provide the CPE. So if there are issues with the client they do testing of the Ethernet side on the CPE and if everything works out well and the customer want you to trouble shoot further to see what is wrong with their computer or router almost all ISPs I talked to charge for it or they go so far as provide free broadband routers that they trust. I'm sure there are those that set themselves apart and will help out for free especially if the client is a higher $$ client or the client has a router the ISP trust in and like. I see little difference between these here. IS provide a boxed solution that can be expanded. They support and warrant their products, their cards they provide for the products because they know they work with their hardware and their software. If it doesn't they will fix it. Where is the incentive for them to fix a problem with a NIC card
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Yup! Really appreciate your help on that. Butch will be down there in early May for our ICNA training. Jeff Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 3:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Jeff, Tone via email is hard to convey...grin, but I did warn this morning that I caught your voiding warranty email at a bad time. lol Certainly I agree ImageStream is a great breath of fresh air as compared to Cisco and many, many other products available. We have all heard and read how terrific the ImageStream products and support is. Additionally, our small group of fixed wireless operators is extremely fortunate to have an ImageStream representative monitoring and participating on this list. Without question hats off to ImageStream. I too have a great deal of respect for Jeff and the company he works for. In fact I think we may be seeing you guys down here in Texas soon for a training. No? Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 1:07 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) It might be exactly the same and it might not be Brad. I don't know. What I can tell you is that, in 10 years, I can't recall ever having to enforce this policy. Do you know of any other manufacturer who has support, warranty, and the router distro license follow the serial number of the router, not the customer? We recently did a lot of work for someone who was given some gear by one of our customers, much of it under warranty. We don't sell seat licenses for various levels of VPN tunnels, or anything else for that matter. Hardware incompatibility issues are some of the most complex things that we have to work through in support. It's often like chasing ghosts. Recreating the actual problem often requires putting together an identical router in our lab. You and I have debated this sort of thing several times, publically and privately. I respect you, and I respect your right to disagree with me. I'm proud of ImageStream and how we care for our customers. We aren't perfect, but we do everything in our power to help our customers. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 1:25 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) The point is If the card is EXACTLY the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 12:20 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Last I heard Cisco don't provide free firmware upgrade/warranty especially on resold products unless specific IOS license is purchased with the reselling. Cisco don't provide free support period. With the myriad of PC based cards out there I don't blame IS for not providing warranty support on third party cards installed in their routers. How do you know that card isn't a cheap knock off card. Further even if it's not a knock off card maybe the revision of the card is newer or older then what IS provides and have tested out to work with their software. So should they then support a card they didn't make anything at all from selling and that they have not tested to work in their software solution? What if they came to the conclusion that specific card don't work well at all and simply decided to not offer this particular card and you buy and install this card in your IS router why should they support and warranty their router just to track it down to a non certified third party card being installed in your router? If they find this IMO it wouldn't be too much to ask for compensation for the technical support assistance you where given on a none IS product. Just like most ISPs they have their demarcation point at the Ethernet side on their CPE when they provide the CPE. So if there are issues with the client they do testing of the Ethernet side on the CPE and if everything works out well and the customer want you to trouble shoot further to see what is wrong with their computer or router almost all ISPs I talked to charge for it or they go so far as provide free broadband routers that they trust. I'm sure there are those that set themselves apart and will help out for free
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Never mind just figured it out :-) The problem for me is that I work almost exclusively on embedded X86 using Alix and rarely have to deal with standard x86 mobos. So it looks like this older Imagestream gateway is limited to 100baseT unless there's a trick way to accomodate PCI-X cards (?) Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) The one I have doesn't have PCI-express slots, just standard 32 bit PCI. I guess I can use the Intel dual 1000 cards: http://www.intel.com/products/server/adapters/pro1000mt-dualport/pro1000mt-dualport-overview.htm altho looking on-line the edge connector is longer than the regular PCI slot. Is that for another style of PCI? Tom S. - Original Message - From: Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Tom, You might want to check if that imagestream 2006 MoBo has pci-e slots in it Josh Luthman wrote: You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Intel Dual Port Pro1000 PCI-X GigE cards will work in a standard 32BIT PCI slot. The Intel Quad Port PCI-X cards will only work in a PCI-X slot. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sharples Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 3:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Never mind just figured it out :-) The problem for me is that I work almost exclusively on embedded X86 using Alix and rarely have to deal with standard x86 mobos. So it looks like this older Imagestream gateway is limited to 100baseT unless there's a trick way to accomodate PCI-X cards (?) Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) The one I have doesn't have PCI-express slots, just standard 32 bit PCI. I guess I can use the Intel dual 1000 cards: http://www.intel.com/products/server/adapters/pro1000mt-dualport/pro1000mt-d ualport-overview.htm altho looking on-line the edge connector is longer than the regular PCI slot. Is that for another style of PCI? Tom S. - Original Message - From: Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Tom, You might want to check if that imagestream 2006 MoBo has pci-e slots in it Josh Luthman wrote: You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Nah, just $150 for a $30 power supply that's a little better than the ones in the Rebels already. Sorry Jeff. Don't drive to my house and stab me :D -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) How so Brad? We sell a complete, warranted, supported product. If you want to buy the pieces/parts and build your own, that's great (and I believe that you do). How can we warrant a product when we did not put sell all the gear that went in to it? If there is a product defect, how are we supposed to know if it is our gear or 3rd party gear that caused it? Believe me, there are enough variables in the process already. ImageStream provides a year warranty and a year of support (including 24/7 emergency support) with all of our routers above the little Envoy. We offer free lifetime software upgrades. We give a 31 Day Performance Guarantee with all of our routers. Is it too much to ask that all gear in the box come from us during that period? It's not like we charge Cisco prices for RAM, NICs, power supplies, etc. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Hi All, I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/support. Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
http://www.imagestreamsolutions.com/Network_Cards/PCI_Cards.html Josh Luthman wrote: What everyone is saying is the Cisco is not Imagestream. I think we can all be very very very thankful of that. It's an Imagestream policy not to put in third party parts. Follow it or don't, it is your choice. I will like to know what the part costs from Imagestream as Newegg charges $45. On 4/16/10, Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Last I heard Cisco don't provide free firmware upgrade/warranty especially on resold products unless specific IOS license is purchased with the reselling. Cisco don't provide free support period. With the myriad of PC based cards out there I don't blame IS for not providing warranty support on third party cards installed in their routers. How do you know that card isn't a cheap knock off card. Further even if it's not a knock off card maybe the revision of the card is newer or older then what IS provides and have tested out to work with their software. So should they then support a card they didn't make anything at all from selling and that they have not tested to work in their software solution? What if they came to the conclusion that specific card don't work well at all and simply decided to not offer this particular card and you buy and install this card in your IS router why should they support and warranty their router just to track it down to a non certified third party card being installed in your router? If they find this IMO it wouldn't be too much to ask for compensation for the technical support assistance you where given on a none IS product. Just like most ISPs they have their demarcation point at the Ethernet side on their CPE when they provide the CPE. So if there are issues with the client they do testing of the Ethernet side on the CPE and if everything works out well and the customer want you to trouble shoot further to see what is wrong with their computer or router almost all ISPs I talked to charge for it or they go so far as provide free broadband routers that they trust. I'm sure there are those that set themselves apart and will help out for free especially if the client is a higher $$ client or the client has a router the ISP trust in and like. I see little difference between these here. IS provide a boxed solution that can be expanded. They support and warrant their products, their cards they provide for the products because they know they work with their hardware and their software. If it doesn't they will fix it. Where is the incentive for them to fix a problem with a NIC card they didn't sell and earned any money for? When they sold the router they have appropriate margin to handle warranty and support on that particular product. If you want another card you might pay a bit of a premium over a third party card but that is the extra you pay for the extended warranty and support to handle this product as well. Just my 2 cents. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) I completely agree if the card installed is 3rd party and completely different than what Imagestream, Cisco or any OEM sells. The point is If the card is exactly the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties all in a wad and void the warranty on the product. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Gotta disagree Brad- show me the price point differences between any Cisco and IS that are comporable - don't forget TCO for OS upgrades etc. Are you suggesting Cisco provides a cheaper HW upgrade solution? This is like pulling your car into the oil change station, handing the guy 5 qt of your own oil that you purchased for a few bucks cheaper and a new air filter.. Doesn't work that way- everyone needs a business model that's profitable. Thanks, ‘S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco directly) and install it in your Cisco router. I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but if the card the end user installs is exactly the samewhat's the problem? Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can simply
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. The secondary problem is cost : pfSense on Alix: $204 3 eth pfSense on soekris: $275-350 4 eth ImageStream on TransPort: $900 new 4 eth $600 e-bay. 3 eth We only do about 20 to 30 Mbps where I will have these deployed. More horsepower would be wasted. The BGP running pfSense box is a bit beefier than the Alix boxes, but didn't quite cost as much as a new TransPort. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.orgwrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 07:52:41PM -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote: Scott One limitation currently with BGP is you cannot have more than 1 peer. I am awaiting that fix myself. In the GUI anyway. 1. mount -u -w / 2. vi config file 3. Don't change the config in the gui again until it gets updated to handle more peers. That's why I love pfSense, if the GUI doesn't support it, I can still make it work. I only need one peer for now. The only reason it needs to speak BGP is so I can announce a subset of our ARIN space to the transit provider. I've been tempted to just pkg_add quagga. But my long term goal is to not be the only guy here who can manage the network. I love PFSENSE - Chris has done an awesome job on that project. Durn tootin'. Chris and that other Scott, and Ermal and . . . -- Scott LambertKC5MLE Unix SysAdmin lamb...@lambertfam.org WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
They will work with a card you can find anywhere, not sure exactly which. My Rebel has a 00:90:FB:: So I would look at this site http://www.portwell.com/index.htm and find the router that looks the same. Look at the specs of it and use the same chipset. Otherwise I'd have to guess that they're Intel. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 9:34 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. The secondary problem is cost : pfSense on Alix: $204 3 eth pfSense on soekris: $275-350 4 eth ImageStream on TransPort: $900 new 4 eth $600 e-bay. 3 eth We only do about 20 to 30 Mbps where I will have these deployed. More horsepower would be wasted. The BGP running pfSense box is a bit beefier than the Alix boxes, but didn't quite cost as much as a new TransPort. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.orgwrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 07:52:41PM -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote: Scott One limitation currently with BGP is you cannot have more than 1 peer. I am awaiting that fix myself. In the GUI anyway. 1. mount -u -w / 2. vi config file 3. Don't change the config in the gui again until it gets updated to handle more peers. That's why I love pfSense, if the GUI doesn't support it,
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. The secondary problem is cost : pfSense on Alix: $204 3 eth pfSense on soekris: $275-350 4 eth ImageStream on TransPort: $900 new 4 eth $600 e-bay. 3 eth We only do about 20 to 30 Mbps where I will have these deployed. More horsepower would be wasted. The BGP running pfSense box is a bit beefier than the Alix boxes, but didn't quite cost as much as a new TransPort. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.orgwrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 07:52:41PM -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote: Scott One limitation currently with BGP is you cannot have more than 1 peer. I am awaiting that fix myself. In the GUI anyway. 1. mount -u -w / 2. vi config file 3. Don't change the config in the gui again until it gets updated to handle more peers. That's why I love pfSense, if the GUI doesn't support it, I can still make it work. I only need one peer for now. The only reason it needs to speak BGP is so I can announce a subset of our ARIN space to the transit provider. I've been tempted to just pkg_add quagga. But my long term goal is to not be the only guy here who can manage the network. I love PFSENSE - Chris has done an awesome job on that project. Durn tootin'. Chris and that other Scott, and Ermal and . . . --
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. The secondary problem is cost : pfSense on Alix: $204 3 eth pfSense on soekris: $275-350 4 eth ImageStream on TransPort: $900 new 4 eth $600 e-bay. 3 eth We only do about 20 to 30 Mbps where I will have these deployed. More horsepower would be wasted. The BGP running pfSense box is a bit beefier than the Alix boxes, but didn't quite cost as much as a new TransPort. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.orgwrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 07:52:41PM -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote: Scott One limitation currently with BGP is you cannot have more than 1 peer. I am awaiting that fix myself. In the GUI anyway. 1. mount -u -w / 2. vi config file 3. Don't change the config in the gui again until it gets updated to handle more peers. That's why I love pfSense, if the GUI doesn't support it, I can still make it work. I only need one peer for now. The only reason it needs to speak BGP is so I can announce a subset of our ARIN space to the transit provider. I've been tempted to just pkg_add quagga. But my long term goal is to not be the only guy here who can manage the network. I love PFSENSE - Chris has done an awesome job
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. The secondary problem is cost : pfSense on Alix: $204 3 eth pfSense on soekris: $275-350 4 eth ImageStream on TransPort: $900 new 4 eth $600 e-bay. 3 eth We only do about 20 to 30 Mbps where I will have these deployed. More horsepower would be wasted. The BGP running pfSense box is a bit beefier than the Alix boxes, but didn't quite cost as much as a new TransPort. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.orgwrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 07:52:41PM -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote: Scott One limitation currently with BGP is you cannot have more than 1 peer. I am awaiting that fix myself. In the GUI anyway. 1. mount -u -w / 2. vi config file 3. Don't change the config in the gui again until it gets
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. The secondary problem is cost : pfSense on Alix: $204 3 eth pfSense on soekris: $275-350 4 eth ImageStream on TransPort: $900 new 4 eth $600 e-bay. 3 eth We only do about 20 to 30 Mbps where I will have these deployed. More horsepower would be wasted. The BGP running pfSense box is a bit beefier than the Alix boxes, but didn't quite cost as much as a new TransPort. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.orgwrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 07:52:41PM -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote: Scott One limitation currently with BGP is you cannot have more than 1 peer. I am awaiting that fix myself. In the GUI anyway. 1. mount -u -w / 2. vi
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. The secondary problem is cost : pfSense on Alix: $204 3 eth pfSense on soekris: $275-350 4 eth ImageStream on TransPort: $900 new 4 eth $600 e-bay. 3 eth We only do about 20 to 30 Mbps where I will have these deployed. More horsepower would be wasted. The BGP running pfSense box is a bit beefier than the Alix boxes, but didn't quite cost as much as a new TransPort. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.orgwrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 07:52:41PM -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote: Scott One limitation currently with BGP is you cannot have more than
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Tom, You might want to check if that imagestream 2006 MoBo has pci-e slots in it Josh Luthman wrote: You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. The secondary problem is cost : pfSense on Alix: $204 3 eth pfSense on soekris: $275-350 4 eth ImageStream on TransPort: $900 new 4 eth $600 e-bay. 3 eth We only do about 20 to 30 Mbps where I will have these deployed. More horsepower would be wasted. The BGP running pfSense box is a bit beefier than the Alix boxes, but didn't quite cost as much as a new TransPort. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.orgwrote: On Mon, Apr 05
Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?)
Also ENU inc off airport way stocks both PCI and PCIe. http://www.enuinc.com/ Frank Crawford wrote: Tom, You might want to check if that imagestream 2006 MoBo has pci-e slots in it Josh Luthman wrote: You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yup... that's the one. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Thanks guys! - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. Travis Microserv Tom Sharples wrote: Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard (e.g. 3com, intel, whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a proprietary card? Thanks, Tom S. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more than we really need. I'm looking forward to trying it out tho. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a response to my emails without a phone call. On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert lamb...@lambertfam.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: I really think you'll love ImageStream... I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was pretty happy. I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the other three that screams I'm busted. Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. The secondary problem is cost : pfSense on Alix: $204 3 eth pfSense on soekris: $275-350 4 eth ImageStream on TransPort: $900 new 4 eth $600 e-bay. 3 eth We only do about 20 to 30 Mbps where I will have these deployed. More horsepower would be wasted. The BGP running pfSense box is a bit beefier than the Alix boxes, but didn't quite cost
