RE: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

2006-06-21 Thread Jonathan Schmidt
Rich, as I ended my message it is probably the ramblings of a
pre-Carterphone decision mentality.

However, were my mom alive, she could easily fall in love with $15 a month
instead of $60 a month even if there were a slight latency and cellphone
quality to the sound.  My pop would have loved the e-mail at the office
sending .WAV files of all the answering machine messages.  I'm not so sure
that a savvy provider couldn't set up a very sticky relationship with even
the more modest tech-unsavvy folks.

But, that's just me and my experience with my family.  My sister is an
archivist and brother a starving artist...in love with what they discovered.
But, they're only in their '60s and still young.

. . . j o n a t h a n

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Comroe
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:59 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone 

Very cool.  I love gadgets too ... got'ta play with them all.

 Rich, I don't agree.

But I've no idea what I said that you disagree with.  What I said was I 
don't see VoIP providing advanced services that the consumer marketplace as 
a whole is going to pick-up (for example, the way caller-id has ... 
everybody has it now).  What I believe the consumer marketplace wants is 
talk minutes (disagreeing with the post that started this thread ... which 
says VoIP is incorrectly competing as cheap minutes, while what they should 
be selling is advanced features).   Tony replied: what about IP 
video-conferencing or multiple numbers.  In the email you're disagreeing 
with I said: come on ... the general consumer isn't going to go for these in

a big way.  Is this what you're disagreeing with, because you use these 
features?

I have a constant debate over how bright or technically savvy the average 
consumer is.  There's a lot of bright people.  But never make the mistake of

presuming the people you deal with on the cutting-edge of broadband are 
representative of the general marketplace.  It ain't so.  It ain't even 
close.  The fact that you use these advanced features is great.  I bet a lot

of people on this list do.  I do.  But a lot of the people on the list 
(especially those that work with residential consumers) can speak volumes 
from their experience.  And (I might add) I bet those that subscribe to 
wireless broadband may be closer to the cutting-edge than to the general 
population. (scarey).  Virtually everybody's got a phone.

Rich

- Original Message - 
From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone


 Rich, I don't agree.  My Lingo service is $20 a line, unlimited calling to
 Europe-US-Canada, and I use simultaneous ring to cell when I'm away, I use
 voicemail-to-Email (instantaneous) when I'm at the office or away, and use
 quite a few other features.  My ATT line was 3 times that and no Europe
 (when you finally get the bill with universal sevice fees, taxes, etc.).

 I put my second line on Lingo...it's seldom used and pay $15 for 500 
 minutes
 which is rarely approached by even 1/2.

 It's hard to beat.  And, I can take my tiny box to Budapest and have my 
 home
 phone in the Kempinski hotel room.  But, I don't have to because of
 simultaneous ring to my Skype-in number.  Maybe it's just the fun of
 somebody who grew up before the Carterphone decision.

 . . . j o n a t h a n

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Rich Comroe
 Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:00 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

 Business users, sure IP video conferencing is great.  I love it, and use 
 it
 myself.  Residential: sure I've setup skype video-conferencing with other
 techie friends ... and then not turned it on again (everybody else I call
 just has an ordinary phone).  Ya'never'know.  But I wouldn't wager any 
 money

 that residential IP video conferencing is going to make any inroads.  Just
 my opinion.

 On the multi-line steering you describe, I switched my phone service 
 (again
 ... seems like I keep switching it every 2 years) and they offered me free
 picks from the advanced feature list which includes distinctive ringing.
 Didn't really interest me.  But I'm sure the multi-line feature you're
 describing would appeal to some (especially small business where you don't
 want phones ringing on every desk when the call is intended for one
 particular desk).  Problem is with most residential and most small 
 business
 is that you may be anywhere in the facility (so you really *do* want all 
 the

 phones to ring so you can pick-up anywhere).  Again, just my opinion.

 I don't see any VoIP killer-apps.  It's just a phone that is at the moment
 offered at a marginally lower price by IP providers

Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

2006-06-20 Thread Rich Comroe
Nah.  It's just a phone.  Ordinary wired phones already offer more features 
than people want without VoIP.  Ordinary phone service typically offers you 
a list of 25 features.  People don't want em, so in my midwest Ameritech 
area (now ATT land) they typically throw in 5 features from the feature 
list for free.  Most people don't even want the 5 free features ... they're 
just nuisances.  There's a damn it, just take 'em attitude where the phone 
company now bundles several of the features into all local service whether 
you want 'em or not.


For the mass of the population it's simply about dial-tone  plain local / 
long distance talk-time.  The phone companies learned to accept this.  The 
same hype that it's more than replacing the phone used to be said about 
ISDN for 20 years (yes, ISDN *is* that old).  Not one advanced ISDN feature 
EVER became popular with consumers.  Within the telecom industry ISDN 
eventually became known by several alternate names, one of which was 
Inventions Subscribers Don't Need (my favorite).


Rich

- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 2:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone



VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone
http://techdirt.com/articles/20060530/0032231.shtml


For way too long, most of the attention on VoIP has focused on how it's a 
cheaper telephone replacement option -- which a few people have pointed 
out is the wrong lesson to take from VoIP. Yes, it can provide cheaper 
calling, but the real value of VoIP is that it opens up the ability to add 
new and useful applications to voice communications. When looking for 
game-changing ideas, simply doing something cheaper tends not to be nearly 
as revolutionary as enabling something that couldn't have been done 
before. That's why it's been disappointing to see so many VoIP providers 
focus on price wars rather than offering something different. The good 
news is that we're starting to see some companies offer something 
different using VoIP. The disposable phone numbers idea seems more like a 
gimmick (though one that some folks might find useful). However, what's 
more interesting are the features the service is looking to add on top of 
the disposable numbers, such as the ability to offer specific content to 
callers. Who knows if this particular solution will catch on, but it's 
nice to see companies trying to provide something more than just a 
telephone replacement service when it comes to VoIP.


--


Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
We Help ISPs Connect  Communicate
813.963.5884 http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

2006-06-20 Thread Peter R.
I beg to differ... Find-me/follow-me, Outlook Integration, Billing 
Platform Integration, video phone, do not disturb, call logs, 
distributed call centers, IVR, and the list goes on VoIP is actually 
more than a phone. But then it is to business, not necessarily resi, 
which it is about dial-tone. From experience, Caller ID, Call Forward 
and Voicemail are the most popular features, especially with so many SOHO.


- Peter

Rich Comroe wrote:

Nah.  It's just a phone.  Ordinary wired phones already offer more 
features than people want without VoIP.  Ordinary phone service 
typically offers you a list of 25 features.  People don't want em, so 
in my midwest Ameritech area (now ATT land) they typically throw in 5 
features from the feature list for free.  Most people don't even want 
the 5 free features ... they're just nuisances.  There's a damn it, 
just take 'em attitude where the phone company now bundles several of 
the features into all local service whether you want 'em or not.


For the mass of the population it's simply about dial-tone  plain 
local / long distance talk-time.  The phone companies learned to 
accept this.  The same hype that it's more than replacing the phone 
used to be said about ISDN for 20 years (yes, ISDN *is* that old).  
Not one advanced ISDN feature EVER became popular with consumers.  
Within the telecom industry ISDN eventually became known by several 
alternate names, one of which was Inventions Subscribers Don't Need 
(my favorite).


Rich


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RE: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

2006-06-20 Thread tonylist
Rich

In general I would agree with you expect for two features, one is video.
Phones like the Grandstream GXV-3000 have are low cost with all the features
one would need. I am not saying this is there yet as its not plug and play
but it's a step in the right direction. 
Also the second is incoming lines, I do not see this offered that much as a
feature but its there. One VoIP phone can handle lots on incoming lines when
setup with a provider that offers It. This is very cool as one can have one
phone number with 4 lines coming in each going to its own ext. This setup on
standard pots would cost much more then VoIP, so you get more features and
save $$ at the same time :) 

Tony

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Comroe
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:03 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone 

Nah.  It's just a phone.  Ordinary wired phones already offer more features
than people want without VoIP.  Ordinary phone service typically offers you
a list of 25 features.  People don't want em, so in my midwest Ameritech
area (now ATT land) they typically throw in 5 features from the feature
list for free.  Most people don't even want the 5 free features ... they're
just nuisances.  There's a damn it, just take 'em attitude where the phone
company now bundles several of the features into all local service whether
you want 'em or not.

For the mass of the population it's simply about dial-tone  plain local /
long distance talk-time.  The phone companies learned to accept this.  The
same hype that it's more than replacing the phone used to be said about
ISDN for 20 years (yes, ISDN *is* that old).  Not one advanced ISDN feature
EVER became popular with consumers.  Within the telecom industry ISDN
eventually became known by several alternate names, one of which was
Inventions Subscribers Don't Need (my favorite).

Rich

- Original Message -
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 2:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone


 VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone
 http://techdirt.com/articles/20060530/0032231.shtml


 For way too long, most of the attention on VoIP has focused on how it's a 
 cheaper telephone replacement option -- which a few people have pointed 
 out is the wrong lesson to take from VoIP. Yes, it can provide cheaper 
 calling, but the real value of VoIP is that it opens up the ability to add

 new and useful applications to voice communications. When looking for 
 game-changing ideas, simply doing something cheaper tends not to be nearly

 as revolutionary as enabling something that couldn't have been done 
 before. That's why it's been disappointing to see so many VoIP providers 
 focus on price wars rather than offering something different. The good 
 news is that we're starting to see some companies offer something 
 different using VoIP. The disposable phone numbers idea seems more like a 
 gimmick (though one that some folks might find useful). However, what's 
 more interesting are the features the service is looking to add on top of 
 the disposable numbers, such as the ability to offer specific content to 
 callers. Who knows if this particular solution will catch on, but it's 
 nice to see companies trying to provide something more than just a 
 telephone replacement service when it comes to VoIP.

 -- 


 Regards,

 Peter
 RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
 We Help ISPs Connect  Communicate
 813.963.5884 http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

2006-06-20 Thread Blake Bowers

Thats because ISDN really stands for I Still Don't No...

Back in the 80's when Bellsouth introduced it in 
Nashville, the techs had to make repeated stops

at my house to finally get it going.  Probably 20 of them.

Bellsouth introduced it, without bothering to show their
employees how to make it work.  Still, it was lots
better than 2400 baud to access FIDONET



- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone



Hahaha my favorite was It Still Doesn't Work (ISDN).

Travis
Microserv





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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

2006-06-20 Thread Rich Comroe
But then it is to business, not necessarily resi, which it is about 
dial-tone.


We've reached agreement!  I agree completely.  I missed where your comments 
were defined towards business customers.  Wisps that I work with serve 
predominantly residential customers, which was my 2 cents.  I know some of 
the wisps here target business markets.  Nothing wrong with that, and IMO 
it's a more profitable market to serve, too.


BTW, most all of the same features you cite have been available with ISDN 
for years before VoIP without gaining any traction with business customers 
whatsoever.  Tried ISDN myself for a few years.  Like everything else, I 
wanted to have my own hands-on experience with it ... and then dropped it 
after a few years going back to analog POTS!


Rich

- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone


I beg to differ... Find-me/follow-me, Outlook Integration, Billing Platform 
Integration, video phone, do not disturb, call logs, distributed call 
centers, IVR, and the list goes on VoIP is actually more than a phone. 
But then it is to business, not necessarily resi, which it is about 
dial-tone. From experience, Caller ID, Call Forward and Voicemail are the 
most popular features, especially with so many SOHO.


- Peter

Rich Comroe wrote:

Nah.  It's just a phone.  Ordinary wired phones already offer more 
features than people want without VoIP.  Ordinary phone service typically 
offers you a list of 25 features.  People don't want em, so in my midwest 
Ameritech area (now ATT land) they typically throw in 5 features from 
the feature list for free.  Most people don't even want the 5 free 
features ... they're just nuisances.  There's a damn it, just take 'em 
attitude where the phone company now bundles several of the features into 
all local service whether you want 'em or not.


For the mass of the population it's simply about dial-tone  plain local 
/ long distance talk-time.  The phone companies learned to accept this. 
The same hype that it's more than replacing the phone used to be said 
about ISDN for 20 years (yes, ISDN *is* that old).  Not one advanced ISDN 
feature EVER became popular with consumers.  Within the telecom industry 
ISDN eventually became known by several alternate names, one of which was 
Inventions Subscribers Don't Need (my favorite).


Rich


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

2006-06-20 Thread Rich Comroe
Business users, sure IP video conferencing is great.  I love it, and use it 
myself.  Residential: sure I've setup skype video-conferencing with other 
techie friends ... and then not turned it on again (everybody else I call 
just has an ordinary phone).  Ya'never'know.  But I wouldn't wager any money 
that residential IP video conferencing is going to make any inroads.  Just 
my opinion.


On the multi-line steering you describe, I switched my phone service (again 
... seems like I keep switching it every 2 years) and they offered me free 
picks from the advanced feature list which includes distinctive ringing. 
Didn't really interest me.  But I'm sure the multi-line feature you're 
describing would appeal to some (especially small business where you don't 
want phones ringing on every desk when the call is intended for one 
particular desk).  Problem is with most residential and most small business 
is that you may be anywhere in the facility (so you really *do* want all the 
phones to ring so you can pick-up anywhere).  Again, just my opinion.


I don't see any VoIP killer-apps.  It's just a phone that is at the moment 
offered at a marginally lower price by IP providers that are not required to 
charge the same government assessments the the traditional providers are 
required to charge (at the moment).


Rich

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 4:41 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone



Rich

In general I would agree with you expect for two features, one is video.
Phones like the Grandstream GXV-3000 have are low cost with all the 
features

one would need. I am not saying this is there yet as its not plug and play
but it's a step in the right direction.
Also the second is incoming lines, I do not see this offered that much as 
a
feature but its there. One VoIP phone can handle lots on incoming lines 
when
setup with a provider that offers It. This is very cool as one can have 
one
phone number with 4 lines coming in each going to its own ext. This setup 
on

standard pots would cost much more then VoIP, so you get more features and
save $$ at the same time :)

Tony

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Comroe
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:03 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

Nah.  It's just a phone.  Ordinary wired phones already offer more 
features
than people want without VoIP.  Ordinary phone service typically offers 
you

a list of 25 features.  People don't want em, so in my midwest Ameritech
area (now ATT land) they typically throw in 5 features from the feature
list for free.  Most people don't even want the 5 free features ... 
they're
just nuisances.  There's a damn it, just take 'em attitude where the 
phone

company now bundles several of the features into all local service whether
you want 'em or not.

For the mass of the population it's simply about dial-tone  plain local /
long distance talk-time.  The phone companies learned to accept this.  The
same hype that it's more than replacing the phone used to be said about
ISDN for 20 years (yes, ISDN *is* that old).  Not one advanced ISDN 
feature

EVER became popular with consumers.  Within the telecom industry ISDN
eventually became known by several alternate names, one of which was
Inventions Subscribers Don't Need (my favorite).

Rich

- Original Message -
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 2:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone



VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone
http://techdirt.com/articles/20060530/0032231.shtml


For way too long, most of the attention on VoIP has focused on how it's a
cheaper telephone replacement option -- which a few people have pointed
out is the wrong lesson to take from VoIP. Yes, it can provide cheaper
calling, but the real value of VoIP is that it opens up the ability to 
add



new and useful applications to voice communications. When looking for
game-changing ideas, simply doing something cheaper tends not to be 
nearly



as revolutionary as enabling something that couldn't have been done
before. That's why it's been disappointing to see so many VoIP providers
focus on price wars rather than offering something different. The good
news is that we're starting to see some companies offer something
different using VoIP. The disposable phone numbers idea seems more like a
gimmick (though one that some folks might find useful). However, what's
more interesting are the features the service is looking to add on top of
the disposable numbers, such as the ability to offer specific content to
callers. Who knows if this particular solution will catch on, but it's
nice to see companies trying to provide something more than just a
telephone replacement service

Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

2006-06-20 Thread Rich Comroe
grinIt Still Doesn't Work would be ISDW!/grin  Got a chuckle out of 
your reply but I get your meaning.  Asked the question, What is ISDN, the 
answer you're thinking of is I Still Don't Know.  I'm sure that's the one 
you were thinking of.  Got'ta love ISDN.


I actually tried it for awhile.  In my near-Chicago suburb I ordered it, the 
phone company tried for 10 weeks to make it work (unsuccessfully) because 
the local office and technicians obviously had no experience with it 
whatsoever (secret meaning: I was the first in my area to have ever ordered 
ISDN service!).  Ultimately I had to debug the service myself (and then tell 
the phone company how to fix it).  It was pretty depressing to go through 
the exercise ... no wonder the phone company couldn't sell ISDN service. 
Then there was the incident when an A band destination that I maintained a 
constant connection to had an equipment failure and kept disconnecting, 
while my equipment kept reconnecting.  Unmetered still had a $0.03 (3 cent) 
connection charge, and my next months bill was $800!!! Got a MUD report and 
it listed roughly 30,000 connections!  The other party kicked in to cover 
half of my phone bill since it was their equipment failure which caused the 
problem.


ISDN ... got'ta love it ... not!
Rich

- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone



Hahaha my favorite was It Still Doesn't Work (ISDN).

Travis
Microserv


Rich Comroe wrote:

Nah.  It's just a phone.  Ordinary wired phones already offer more 
features than people want without VoIP.  Ordinary phone service typically 
offers you a list of 25 features.  People don't want em, so in my midwest 
Ameritech area (now ATT land) they typically throw in 5 features from 
the feature list for free.  Most people don't even want the 5 free 
features ... they're just nuisances.  There's a damn it, just take 'em 
attitude where the phone company now bundles several of the features into 
all local service whether you want 'em or not.


For the mass of the population it's simply about dial-tone  plain local 
/ long distance talk-time.  The phone companies learned to accept this. 
The same hype that it's more than replacing the phone used to be said 
about ISDN for 20 years (yes, ISDN *is* that old).  Not one advanced ISDN 
feature EVER became popular with consumers.  Within the telecom industry 
ISDN eventually became known by several alternate names, one of which was 
Inventions Subscribers Don't Need (my favorite).


Rich

- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 2:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone



VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone
http://techdirt.com/articles/20060530/0032231.shtml


For way too long, most of the attention on VoIP has focused on how it's 
a cheaper telephone replacement option -- which a few people have 
pointed out is the wrong lesson to take from VoIP. Yes, it can provide 
cheaper calling, but the real value of VoIP is that it opens up the 
ability to add new and useful applications to voice communications. When 
looking for game-changing ideas, simply doing something cheaper tends 
not to be nearly as revolutionary as enabling something that couldn't 
have been done before. That's why it's been disappointing to see so many 
VoIP providers focus on price wars rather than offering something 
different. The good news is that we're starting to see some companies 
offer something different using VoIP. The disposable phone numbers idea 
seems more like a gimmick (though one that some folks might find 
useful). However, what's more interesting are the features the service 
is looking to add on top of the disposable numbers, such as the ability 
to offer specific content to callers. Who knows if this particular 
solution will catch on, but it's nice to see companies trying to provide 
something more than just a telephone replacement service when it comes 
to VoIP.


--


Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
We Help ISPs Connect  Communicate
813.963.5884 http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

2006-06-20 Thread Rich Comroe
That was my experience exactly!  Finally used my own protocol analyzer (my 
PC) and saw each Q931 request being auto-repeated before the first D channel 
acks came back (there was nearly a SECOND of D channel delay!!).  At that 
point it was obvious and I had the phone technicians switch me from a 
supposedly ISDN capable brand new fiber line unit to an old SLIC96 they had 
available and the problem immediately went away (and my phone started 
working).  Ahhh, the good old days...


You're right ... the phone company tech's had no idea how to make it work 
(or trouble shoot their own equipment).  Worse yet, the Ameritech 
technicians had been issued ISDN capable CAT box's that were oblivious to D 
channel delay (so they were swearing it was working because their test box 
said it was working).


Rich

- Original Message - 
From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone



Thats because ISDN really stands for I Still Don't No...

Back in the 80's when Bellsouth introduced it in Nashville, the techs had 
to make repeated stops

at my house to finally get it going.  Probably 20 of them.

Bellsouth introduced it, without bothering to show their
employees how to make it work.  Still, it was lots
better than 2400 baud to access FIDONET



- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone



Hahaha my favorite was It Still Doesn't Work (ISDN).

Travis
Microserv




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RE: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

2006-06-20 Thread Jonathan Schmidt
Rich, I don't agree.  My Lingo service is $20 a line, unlimited calling to
Europe-US-Canada, and I use simultaneous ring to cell when I'm away, I use
voicemail-to-Email (instantaneous) when I'm at the office or away, and use
quite a few other features.  My ATT line was 3 times that and no Europe
(when you finally get the bill with universal sevice fees, taxes, etc.).

I put my second line on Lingo...it's seldom used and pay $15 for 500 minutes
which is rarely approached by even 1/2.

It's hard to beat.  And, I can take my tiny box to Budapest and have my home
phone in the Kempinski hotel room.  But, I don't have to because of
simultaneous ring to my Skype-in number.  Maybe it's just the fun of
somebody who grew up before the Carterphone decision.

. . . j o n a t h a n

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Comroe
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone 

Business users, sure IP video conferencing is great.  I love it, and use it 
myself.  Residential: sure I've setup skype video-conferencing with other 
techie friends ... and then not turned it on again (everybody else I call 
just has an ordinary phone).  Ya'never'know.  But I wouldn't wager any money

that residential IP video conferencing is going to make any inroads.  Just 
my opinion.

On the multi-line steering you describe, I switched my phone service (again 
... seems like I keep switching it every 2 years) and they offered me free 
picks from the advanced feature list which includes distinctive ringing. 
Didn't really interest me.  But I'm sure the multi-line feature you're 
describing would appeal to some (especially small business where you don't 
want phones ringing on every desk when the call is intended for one 
particular desk).  Problem is with most residential and most small business 
is that you may be anywhere in the facility (so you really *do* want all the

phones to ring so you can pick-up anywhere).  Again, just my opinion.

I don't see any VoIP killer-apps.  It's just a phone that is at the moment 
offered at a marginally lower price by IP providers that are not required to

charge the same government assessments the the traditional providers are 
required to charge (at the moment).

Rich

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 4:41 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone


 Rich

 In general I would agree with you expect for two features, one is video.
 Phones like the Grandstream GXV-3000 have are low cost with all the 
 features
 one would need. I am not saying this is there yet as its not plug and play
 but it's a step in the right direction.
 Also the second is incoming lines, I do not see this offered that much as 
 a
 feature but its there. One VoIP phone can handle lots on incoming lines 
 when
 setup with a provider that offers It. This is very cool as one can have 
 one
 phone number with 4 lines coming in each going to its own ext. This setup 
 on
 standard pots would cost much more then VoIP, so you get more features and
 save $$ at the same time :)

 Tony

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Rich Comroe
 Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:03 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

 Nah.  It's just a phone.  Ordinary wired phones already offer more 
 features
 than people want without VoIP.  Ordinary phone service typically offers 
 you
 a list of 25 features.  People don't want em, so in my midwest Ameritech
 area (now ATT land) they typically throw in 5 features from the feature
 list for free.  Most people don't even want the 5 free features ... 
 they're
 just nuisances.  There's a damn it, just take 'em attitude where the 
 phone
 company now bundles several of the features into all local service whether
 you want 'em or not.

 For the mass of the population it's simply about dial-tone  plain local /
 long distance talk-time.  The phone companies learned to accept this.  The
 same hype that it's more than replacing the phone used to be said about
 ISDN for 20 years (yes, ISDN *is* that old).  Not one advanced ISDN 
 feature
 EVER became popular with consumers.  Within the telecom industry ISDN
 eventually became known by several alternate names, one of which was
 Inventions Subscribers Don't Need (my favorite).

 Rich

 - Original Message -
 From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 2:55 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone


 VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone
 http://techdirt.com/articles/20060530/0032231.shtml


 For way too long, most of the attention on VoIP has focused on how it's a
 cheaper telephone replacement option -- which a few people

Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

2006-06-20 Thread Rich Comroe

Very cool.  I love gadgets too ... got'ta play with them all.


Rich, I don't agree.


But I've no idea what I said that you disagree with.  What I said was I 
don't see VoIP providing advanced services that the consumer marketplace as 
a whole is going to pick-up (for example, the way caller-id has ... 
everybody has it now).  What I believe the consumer marketplace wants is 
talk minutes (disagreeing with the post that started this thread ... which 
says VoIP is incorrectly competing as cheap minutes, while what they should 
be selling is advanced features).   Tony replied: what about IP 
video-conferencing or multiple numbers.  In the email you're disagreeing 
with I said: come on ... the general consumer isn't going to go for these in 
a big way.  Is this what you're disagreeing with, because you use these 
features?


I have a constant debate over how bright or technically savvy the average 
consumer is.  There's a lot of bright people.  But never make the mistake of 
presuming the people you deal with on the cutting-edge of broadband are 
representative of the general marketplace.  It ain't so.  It ain't even 
close.  The fact that you use these advanced features is great.  I bet a lot 
of people on this list do.  I do.  But a lot of the people on the list 
(especially those that work with residential consumers) can speak volumes 
from their experience.  And (I might add) I bet those that subscribe to 
wireless broadband may be closer to the cutting-edge than to the general 
population. (scarey).  Virtually everybody's got a phone.


Rich

- Original Message - 
From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone



Rich, I don't agree.  My Lingo service is $20 a line, unlimited calling to
Europe-US-Canada, and I use simultaneous ring to cell when I'm away, I use
voicemail-to-Email (instantaneous) when I'm at the office or away, and use
quite a few other features.  My ATT line was 3 times that and no Europe
(when you finally get the bill with universal sevice fees, taxes, etc.).

I put my second line on Lingo...it's seldom used and pay $15 for 500 
minutes

which is rarely approached by even 1/2.

It's hard to beat.  And, I can take my tiny box to Budapest and have my 
home

phone in the Kempinski hotel room.  But, I don't have to because of
simultaneous ring to my Skype-in number.  Maybe it's just the fun of
somebody who grew up before the Carterphone decision.

. . . j o n a t h a n

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Comroe
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone

Business users, sure IP video conferencing is great.  I love it, and use 
it

myself.  Residential: sure I've setup skype video-conferencing with other
techie friends ... and then not turned it on again (everybody else I call
just has an ordinary phone).  Ya'never'know.  But I wouldn't wager any 
money


that residential IP video conferencing is going to make any inroads.  Just
my opinion.

On the multi-line steering you describe, I switched my phone service 
(again

... seems like I keep switching it every 2 years) and they offered me free
picks from the advanced feature list which includes distinctive ringing.
Didn't really interest me.  But I'm sure the multi-line feature you're
describing would appeal to some (especially small business where you don't
want phones ringing on every desk when the call is intended for one
particular desk).  Problem is with most residential and most small 
business
is that you may be anywhere in the facility (so you really *do* want all 
the


phones to ring so you can pick-up anywhere).  Again, just my opinion.

I don't see any VoIP killer-apps.  It's just a phone that is at the moment
offered at a marginally lower price by IP providers that are not required 
to


charge the same government assessments the the traditional providers are
required to charge (at the moment).

Rich

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 4:41 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] VoIP Is About More Than Replacing The Phone



Rich

In general I would agree with you expect for two features, one is video.
Phones like the Grandstream GXV-3000 have are low cost with all the
features
one would need. I am not saying this is there yet as its not plug and 
play

but it's a step in the right direction.
Also the second is incoming lines, I do not see this offered that much as
a
feature but its there. One VoIP phone can handle lots on incoming lines
when
setup with a provider that offers It. This is very cool as one can have
one
phone number with 4 lines coming in each going to its own ext. This setup
on
standard pots would cost much more then VoIP, so you get more features