Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Yeah.

We have some customers that get what I consider crappy service from us. 
There's just nothing we can do to make it better.  But they are happy 
because crappy service from us is still cheaper and/or better than any other 
options they have.

We just make sure to set the expectations right when we go in if the 
situation looks bad (long range, obstructions etc.).

If things don't work like I think they should I'll usually give people a 2 
or 4 week trial period.  I'll not let them pay for the equipment service 
etc. until they've had time to decided that it'll work or not.

We did this for months for one customer.  Totally free service for him.  I 
was finally able to get back out to his place to try a different location on 
the house.  It still worked like crap.  He finally forked over about $800.00 
for a ptp link from him to another location that we could get to.  He's now 
got great service and is a very happy camper.  If we'd not have taken the 
time to work with him like we did he'd not likely have spent the money to 
install the dedicated link to his place.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; Steve Barnes 
st...@pcswin.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot


   The 3 worst customers I have are a friend I meet every Friday with for
 breakfast and 2 relatives.  I worked way too hard to get them service and
 should have just told them no.  Instead I get a weekly report of all the
 things they can't do on our service.


I had a friend like this. I stopped having lunch with him until he got the
hint. :-)

Seriously though it¹s about managing expectations.  If you are up front with
a potential customer they will thank you for it.  If your network can¹t
support what you sell then the network needs to be upgraded or what you are
selling needs to be re-thought.  I am a big fan of firing customers.  If the
service can't do what they want then they need to move on.

I think customers are interested in the following (order varies on customer,
competition in area, and other factors)

-Quality of service
-Pricing
-Support
-ease of use
-Support for non standard things (VPN, P2P, etc.)

I think Comcast and the others are learning it¹s not good to block p2p.
Instead ding the customer if they go over X amount of gigs a month.

Justin






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Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-05 Thread Blair Davis




Another thing to think about...

If there is a large WISP near by that could be there soon, WHY aren't
they there now?

What do they know that you don't?

 Liam Cummings wrote:

  Ok I  think I found a location to start providing services. Should I be concerned that a large isp is close by and could be in this area with in a couple of years?


Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry



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Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-05 Thread tim wolfe
I read a lot and rarely post these days, but after reading this, I just felt 
I had to add my $.02  I have been in the WISP business for 9 years. I 
deployed into areas that had no options other than myself. Every time I 
deployed, cable or DSL followed me within weeks of turning up an AP. They 
offered higher speeds and lower prices. I initially thought I was doomed. As 
it turned out, it didn't matter and in some respects, it helped as people 
became more aware of high speed.

No matter where you deploy, people will never change in the respect that 
they all hate the big CO's. They will almost always pick a local CO over 
some big Corp that doesn't care about anything other than the $$. As 
mentioned before, make yourself stand out somehow, some way. It could be as 
simple as same day installs, on time appointments, whatever?

Don't let the fact that other forms of broadband exist in the areas you want 
to work in stop you. There is plenty of room for everyone. Just take your 
time, properly engineer your network, make it reliable and DO NOT cut 
corners when buying your gear.

Another DO NOT is installing customers with marginal signal levels or 
installing radios in places where something could make them stop working 
over time (Like doing an install in the Winter, forgetting that trees bloom 
in Spring, DUH!)

When I first started, I mistakenly thought that I MUST install and put 
online, every person that called. I cut down trees, erected 50ft masts at no 
extra cost and just did a lot of stupid things that wasted both money and 
time.

Eventually, I learned that you need to pick and choose your customers 
wisely. Whenever I get to a home and I am doing a site survey, I immediately 
can not get a signal if it is full of teenagers or adults that are asking me 
what programs they need to install so they can get all that FREE music and 
movies that are on the internet. Some may say this is harsh, but hey, it is 
my business and I run it as I see fit. I have also banned any peer to peer 
use on my network and the customer knows this BEFORE I install them by 
signing my TOS. I am not the moral police and this is probably another 
subject for another thread, but it is what I have chosen to do.

Run your business like you would want a CO to treat you if you were buying 
something. While I am not a terribly religious man, there is a quote that 
sticks out from the Bible and it applies here: Do unto others as you would 
have them do unto you. Follow this little parable and things will work on 
their own. Try and cheat, swindle or just plain old rip people off and it 
will come back to bite you in the a
- Original Message - 
From: Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot


 If they don't gave the money to spend, there is no wy to overcome
 that. I woul make sure there are enough people with disposable income
 to make it worth your time. And it will take more time than you
 think.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On May 4, 2010, at 4:59 PM, Liam Cummings 
 lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com
  wrote:

 Also I'm still researching but appears to be a low income area. Any
 thoughts on that?
 Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry

 - Original Message -
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tue May 04 18:14:59 2010
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

 I service an area with multiple isp's wisps as well as Comcast and
 ATT. The key is to differentiate yourself. It could be service or
 faster upload speeds or just a local business. Don't fear competition.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On May 4, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Liam Cummings 
 lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com
 wrote:

 Ok I  think I found a location to start providing services. Should I
 be concerned that a large isp is close by and could be in this area
 with in a couple of years?


 Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry


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Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-05 Thread Steve Barnes
Very well said Tim.  Because you are small or a startup is no reason not to run 
your WISP correctly.  There are some clients that are not worth having.  
A week or so ago there was a thread similar to this and someone had created a 
Statement of Understanding that all their clients have to sign.  I have since 
added something very similar to my service agreement.  IT IS YOUR SERVICE that 
you offer to them.  We need to be customer oriented and friendly but in this 
industry the customer is not always right nor do they get what they want.  
Giving them everything they want is a quick way to going out of business.  Do I 
want to supply all their needs: Heck yeah, do I want to give them a 100MB pipe 
to their door with free access to ESPN360 and HuLu and Netflix for $29: Sure.  
Can the technology that am using do it: NO WAY.  So I have to set the 
expectations of what I can truthfully do and limit the number of cranky 
customers in my life.  It is far better to tell a customer no we can't get you 
service or no we can't offer that speed upfront then to work your butt of and 
then still have an unhappy customer call you 3 times a day.  Be wi
 se follow Tim's advice.  Teach your goals to your staff and always follow your 
plan no matter if it's a friend or family.  The 3 worst customers I have are a 
friend I meet every Friday with for breakfast and 2 relatives.  I worked way 
too hard to get them service and should have just told them no.  Instead I get 
a weekly report of all the things they can't do on our service.

Steve Barnes
Manager
PCS-WIN
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of tim wolfe
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 10:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

I read a lot and rarely post these days, but after reading this, I just felt 
I had to add my $.02  I have been in the WISP business for 9 years. I 
deployed into areas that had no options other than myself. Every time I 
deployed, cable or DSL followed me within weeks of turning up an AP. They 
offered higher speeds and lower prices. I initially thought I was doomed. As 
it turned out, it didn't matter and in some respects, it helped as people 
became more aware of high speed.

No matter where you deploy, people will never change in the respect that 
they all hate the big CO's. They will almost always pick a local CO over 
some big Corp that doesn't care about anything other than the $$. As 
mentioned before, make yourself stand out somehow, some way. It could be as 
simple as same day installs, on time appointments, whatever?

Don't let the fact that other forms of broadband exist in the areas you want 
to work in stop you. There is plenty of room for everyone. Just take your 
time, properly engineer your network, make it reliable and DO NOT cut 
corners when buying your gear.

Another DO NOT is installing customers with marginal signal levels or 
installing radios in places where something could make them stop working 
over time (Like doing an install in the Winter, forgetting that trees bloom 
in Spring, DUH!)

When I first started, I mistakenly thought that I MUST install and put 
online, every person that called. I cut down trees, erected 50ft masts at no 
extra cost and just did a lot of stupid things that wasted both money and 
time.

Eventually, I learned that you need to pick and choose your customers 
wisely. Whenever I get to a home and I am doing a site survey, I immediately 
can not get a signal if it is full of teenagers or adults that are asking me 
what programs they need to install so they can get all that FREE music and 
movies that are on the internet. Some may say this is harsh, but hey, it is 
my business and I run it as I see fit. I have also banned any peer to peer 
use on my network and the customer knows this BEFORE I install them by 
signing my TOS. I am not the moral police and this is probably another 
subject for another thread, but it is what I have chosen to do.

Run your business like you would want a CO to treat you if you were buying 
something. While I am not a terribly religious man, there is a quote that 
sticks out from the Bible and it applies here: Do unto others as you would 
have them do unto you. Follow this little parable and things will work on 
their own. Try and cheat, swindle or just plain old rip people off and it 
will come back to bite you in the a
- Original Message - 
From: Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot


 If they don't gave the money to spend, there is no wy to overcome
 that. I woul make sure there are enough people with disposable income
 to make it worth your time. And it will take more time than you
 think.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On May 4, 2010, at 4:59 PM, Liam Cummings 
 lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com
  wrote:

 Also I'm

Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-05 Thread Justin Wilson
   The 3 worst customers I have are a friend I meet every Friday with for
 breakfast and 2 relatives.  I worked way too hard to get them service and
 should have just told them no.  Instead I get a weekly report of all the
 things they can't do on our service.


I had a friend like this. I stopped having lunch with him until he got the
hint. :-)

Seriously though it¹s about managing expectations.  If you are up front with
a potential customer they will thank you for it.  If your network can¹t
support what you sell then the network needs to be upgraded or what you are
selling needs to be re-thought.  I am a big fan of firing customers.  If the
service can't do what they want then they need to move on.

I think customers are interested in the following (order varies on customer,
competition in area, and other factors)

-Quality of service
-Pricing
-Support
-ease of use
-Support for non standard things (VPN, P2P, etc.)

I think Comcast and the others are learning it¹s not good to block p2p.
Instead ding the customer if they go over X amount of gigs a month.

Justin
  





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Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-04 Thread Jeremie Chism
I service an area with multiple isp's wisps as well as Comcast and  
ATT. The key is to differentiate yourself. It could be service or  
faster upload speeds or just a local business. Don't fear competition.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 4, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Liam Cummings lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com 
  wrote:

 Ok I  think I found a location to start providing services. Should I  
 be concerned that a large isp is close by and could be in this area  
 with in a couple of years?


 Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry


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Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-04 Thread Liam Cummings
Also I'm still researching but appears to be a low income area. Any thoughts on 
that?
Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry

- Original Message -
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tue May 04 18:14:59 2010
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

I service an area with multiple isp's wisps as well as Comcast and  
ATT. The key is to differentiate yourself. It could be service or  
faster upload speeds or just a local business. Don't fear competition.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 4, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Liam Cummings lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com 
  wrote:

 Ok I  think I found a location to start providing services. Should I  
 be concerned that a large isp is close by and could be in this area  
 with in a couple of years?


 Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry


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Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-04 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Yes.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Liam Cummings
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 4:55 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Found a spot

Ok I  think I found a location to start providing services. Should I be
concerned that a large isp is close by and could be in this area with in
a couple of years?


Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry




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Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-04 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Can you say ... RUN! 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Liam Cummings
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 5:00 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

Also I'm still researching but appears to be a low income area. Any
thoughts on that?
Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry

- Original Message -
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tue May 04 18:14:59 2010
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

I service an area with multiple isp's wisps as well as Comcast and  
ATT. The key is to differentiate yourself. It could be service or  
faster upload speeds or just a local business. Don't fear competition.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 4, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Liam Cummings
lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com 
  wrote:

 Ok I  think I found a location to start providing services. Should I  
 be concerned that a large isp is close by and could be in this area  
 with in a couple of years?


 Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry


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Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-04 Thread Jeremie Chism
If they don't gave the money to spend, there is no wy to overcome  
that. I woul make sure there are enough people with disposable income  
to make it worth your time. And it will take more time than you  
think.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 4, 2010, at 4:59 PM, Liam Cummings lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com 
  wrote:

 Also I'm still researching but appears to be a low income area. Any  
 thoughts on that?
 Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry

 - Original Message -
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tue May 04 18:14:59 2010
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

 I service an area with multiple isp's wisps as well as Comcast and
 ATT. The key is to differentiate yourself. It could be service or
 faster upload speeds or just a local business. Don't fear competition.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On May 4, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Liam Cummings lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com
 wrote:

 Ok I  think I found a location to start providing services. Should I
 be concerned that a large isp is close by and could be in this area
 with in a couple of years?


 Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry


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Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-04 Thread Blair Davis




This is a reason to charge an install fee. We use it as 'a barrier to
entry'.

Most people,if they can raise the $200 to setup and another $45 for
the 1st month, or $245 up front, will pay their bills.

Every time I fall for a sob story about the install price, the client
becomes a 'problem child' within a few months.

Something to think about in a 'low income' area.



Jeremie Chism wrote:

  If they don't gave the money to spend, there is no wy to overcome  
that. I woul make sure there are enough people with disposable income  
to make it worth your time. And it will take more time than you  
think.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 4, 2010, at 4:59 PM, "Liam Cummings" lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com 
  wrote:

  
  
Also I'm still researching but appears to be a low income area. Any  
thoughts on that?
Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry

- Original Message -
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tue May 04 18:14:59 2010
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

I service an area with multiple isp's wisps as well as Comcast and
ATT. The key is to differentiate yourself. It could be service or
faster upload speeds or just a local business. Don't fear competition.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 4, 2010, at 4:55 PM, "Liam Cummings" lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com


  wrote:
  


  Ok I  think I found a location to start providing services. Should I
be concerned that a large isp is close by and could be in this area
with in a couple of years?


Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry


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Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-04 Thread Kurt Fankhauser
I agree, if you start doing installs for less than $100 you'll have people
that get it one month and are gone the next. 

 

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com

 

 

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

 

This is a reason to charge an install fee.  We use it as 'a barrier to
entry'.

Most people,if they can raise the  $200 to setup and another $45 for the 1st
month, or $245 up front, will pay their bills.

Every time I fall for a sob story about the install price, the client
becomes a 'problem child' within a few months.

Something to think about in a 'low income' area.



Jeremie Chism wrote: 

If they don't gave the money to spend, there is no wy to overcome  
that. I woul make sure there are enough people with disposable income  
to make it worth your time. And it will take more time than you  
think.
 
Sent from my iPhone
 
On May 4, 2010, at 4:59 PM, Liam Cummings
mailto:lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com 
 mailto:lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com   wrote:
 
  

Also I'm still researching but appears to be a low income area. Any  
thoughts on that?
Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry
 
- Original Message -
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org  mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
wireless-boun...@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List  mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tue May 04 18:14:59 2010
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot
 
I service an area with multiple isp's wisps as well as Comcast and
ATT. The key is to differentiate yourself. It could be service or
faster upload speeds or just a local business. Don't fear competition.
 
Sent from my iPhone
 
On May 4, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Liam Cummings
lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com


wrote:
  

Ok I  think I found a location to start providing services. Should I
be concerned that a large isp is close by and could be in this area
with in a couple of years?
 
 
Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

2010-05-04 Thread RickG
Same experience here.

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote:
 This is a reason to charge an install fee.  We use it as 'a barrier to
 entry'.

 Most people,if they can raise the  $200 to setup and another $45 for the 1st
 month, or $245 up front, will pay their bills.

 Every time I fall for a sob story about the install price, the client
 becomes a 'problem child' within a few months.

 Something to think about in a 'low income' area.



 Jeremie Chism wrote:

 If they don't gave the money to spend, there is no wy to overcome
 that. I woul make sure there are enough people with disposable income
 to make it worth your time. And it will take more time than you
 think.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On May 4, 2010, at 4:59 PM, Liam Cummings
 lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com
   wrote:



 Also I'm still researching but appears to be a low income area. Any
 thoughts on that?
 Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry

 - Original Message -
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tue May 04 18:14:59 2010
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Found a spot

 I service an area with multiple isp's wisps as well as Comcast and
 ATT. The key is to differentiate yourself. It could be service or
 faster upload speeds or just a local business. Don't fear competition.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On May 4, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Liam Cummings
 lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com


 wrote:


 Ok I  think I found a location to start providing services. Should I
 be concerned that a large isp is close by and could be in this area
 with in a couple of years?


 Sent from my Datacom Specialists black berry


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