Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
Here is Lauri Vertrees' response to the issues raised. She is our Operations Director, whose responsibility includes porting numbers. Most of her comments reaffirm what others have already stated. Ron: a) VoX knows how to port. We have never directly requested to port a telephone number from Farmers' Telecommunications Coop because. b) We are not a switched, facilities based land line carrier and thus rely on our carrier partners to port telephone numbers to VoX. If our porting partners do not have coverage in a Rate Center (an Interconnect Agreement) we cannot obtain DIDs nor can we port DIDs from that Rate Center. It's all about the numbers. If the dollars made sense, the Interconnect Agreement would already be in place. So, the bottom line on Marlon Williamson's port request from Farmers' Telecommunications Coop to VoX is that our porting partners do not have an Interconnect Agreement in place with them and therefore cannot provide service to the Rainsville, AL Rate Center. VoX LNP is very careful with its language. We do not blame the donor LEC. The rejection notice states that the telephone number is not portable at this time and the further explanation is that VoX cannot provide service to this Rate Center, at this time. Chris Townson's comment in part 2 regarding non-geographical porting is very good. In porting, both carriers must shake hands, trade information and agree -- both the donor LEC and the receiving carrier. Not all LECs like to or want to play nice. No matter what the FCC says. I have checked the surrounding rate centers to see if there is a local alternative. There are 3 other RCs around Rainsville, but they are all served by Farmer's Coop. Bottom line - we cannot get numbers in this location (256-638) and therefore cannot port. Ron -Original Message- From: Ron Harden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:45 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers John: Let me know what our porting guru says tomorrow. Ron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John McDowell Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers This was an email from a Rep at the Coop when one of my employees tried to port their home number to their new Vox/Boonlink ATA: Mr. Williamson, First, a Trading Partner Profile (TPP) is an agreement between two communications companies that allows the sharing of necessary information (Name, Company Codes, Addresses, and other required technical information) and sometimes serves as an unofficial agreement between the companies. You don't have to do anything for FTC and Voxcorp to exchange a TPP. However, Voxcorp must submit a bona fide request (BFR) to FTC requesting the ability to port numbers (which they've not done), and then the two companies would exchange the TPPs or exchange other industry standard agreements to allow port processing. Voxcorp has never requested the ability to port numbers with FTC. All they have to do is request, through normal FCC procedures, the ability to port, and then FTC will move forward with the porting process. They cannot, however, just send a request to port the number to them and expect us to process that request. They know that, as a communications company, they must follow FCC mandated processes before we can move forward. It is illegal for either company to do so otherwise. If their representative will contact me, send a BFR, and then we will move forward with the process. Otherwise, there is nothing FTC can do. Please be assured that the statement that your "VoIP company .could not get Farmers to port my number" is not an accurate or true statement. Your VoIP company hasn't used any of the industry standard procedures, to my knowledge, to attempt to port your number. FTC has no reason to stop this process. If you do successfully port your local number to your VoIP provider, then your local landline service will be disconnected. We will have to disconnect your DSL as well. If this happens, consider that you will have to have another high speed internet provider for your VoIP service to work. Also, there are safety considerations as to the effectiveness of emergency service calls (911, etc...) when using a VoIP service. Please be informed of all the details surrounding these issues. Your VoIP provider should be able to provide you with all of the related information. You may already be aware of all of this, but there are several items to consider before disconnecting your local service. I hope this information helps you. Let me know if I can be of more assistance. Feel free to contact us at anytime. Sincerely, Chris Townson
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
On Aug 26, 2008, at 6:56 PM, Ron Harden wrote: > Yes, we source numbers from Level 3 and others. DID coverage is key > to any > successful digital voice program. There are some small mom-and-pop > LECs > that will not give up numbers because they a) don't want any > competition, > and b) don't have to. And, c) because outside of the cell carriers and at&t, none of the other wholesale players have bothered to interconnect. Most likely because the wholesaler's cost structure is such that they can't get a return on their investment in a reasonable time frame from a small market. Generally speaking, if a carrier is willing to interconnect then it will be possible to port numbers. There are many obvious problems with going the interconnect route, but it is getting easier as consolidation occurs. Winstream comes to mind as an example. > 3.The PRI route that John mentions has to be carefully > considered. We > have gone down this path for a few of our cable customers where they > needed > DIDs at a head end location and the numbers justified their > investment. > I'll share with you the facts (to the best of our knowledge) so you > can make > your own decision on this one. AT&T has numbers in about 93-95% of > the > country. You could buy a PRI from AT&T and likely pay $700-800 per > month. > We would order the PRI for you because we would need to be the > administrative contact to order the DIDs. We would bill you the > pass-through cost of the PRI. You can put about 200 customers on > that PRI, > oversubscribing by a factor of 10, knowing that only a portion of > those > customers will be on the phone at the same time. Thus you have to > be able > to recover that additional cost of about $4 per sub, once you reach > the 200 > level of customers (more until you get there). Then you need > another PRI of > course. But the inbound call from AT&T will be TDM, which has to be > converted to IP, so you will need to install a router at your > location. We > would recommend a specific CISCO router, which you would have to pay > for and > install, for about $10-12K. You would own the box, but send it to > us to > configure it for you. You would be responsible for the install, and > of > course the power back up, A/C, and Internet feed. You will likely > be under > water until you reach 100 customers on the PRI, still having to > amortize the > cost of the router. There are several problems with the above option. First, the carrier may simply stop you from doing it. It could happen before the order even goes through or at some later date. Most PRI terms and conditions include a no-resell clause. The carrier is not required to offer a PRI for resell. Second, if an operator could get a resell PRI then Asterisk will probably cover all their needs for 100-200 subs. Understand that there is an enormous difference between running Asterisk as a switch with a TDM upstream vs running Asterisk as a switch with a SIP upstream. Finally, the business relationship outlined above amounts to huge liabilities for the WISP for little advantage. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
It's the biggest WISP event I've ever been to, last January in Salt Lake City. Would definitely recommend going. On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Ron Harden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No doubt I should have picked this up before Chuck, but what is the "animal > farm" event? > > Yes if I can contibute and work it out with my schedule, what ever it is. > > Ron > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:12 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > Ron, > Do you want to present at AnimalFarm this winter? > I think this topic would be very interesting for all. > > - Original Message - > From: "Ron Harden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:56 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > > > Yes, we source numbers from Level 3 and others. DID coverage is key to > > any > > successful digital voice program. There are some small mom-and-pop LECs > > that will not give up numbers because they a) don't want any competition, > > and b) don't have to. If we cannot get numbers in a particular rate > > center > > (RC), then we cannot port the number. But as a general rule, if we can > > get > > numbers, then the vast majority of the time, we can port that number. > > This > > is why we always ask our customers for targeted locations, based on rate > > center, or NPA/NXX, to determine if we can get numbers. In most cases, > we > > can. Our current DID providers cover greater than 70% of the US. We > also > > offer DID (and port) in Canada and Puerto Rico. Where we cannot get > > numbers, here are the options: > > > > > > > > 1.We search for a provider that has numbers, and we are always > looking > > for more. But they have to be able to connect with us electronically, or > > we > > move on. Our process is fully automated from the time someone submits an > > order, it's untouched by human hands until the fedex label prints and we > > ship the ATA (if the service provider chooses to have us drop ship to > > their > > customers). Most WISPs chose to purchase ATAs in bulk to have the units > > on > > a truck and close to their market for immediate install. In that case > > they > > just activate the unit on line. Sometimes numbers are available, but > > without an automated process, we cannot make it work. > > > > > > > > 2.When DIDs are available to a particular RC, the provider has the > > option of providing a number from the nearest location. Many times we > can > > get numbers from an alternative RC that still represents a local call for > > friends and neighbors. But if that fails, providing an alternative > number > > from another rate center is more difficult to sell. Friends and family > on > > the same service would of course call each other for free, but that's a > > more > > difficult marketing challenge. > > > > > > > > 3.The PRI route that John mentions has to be carefully considered. > We > > have gone down this path for a few of our cable customers where they > > needed > > DIDs at a head end location and the numbers justified their investment. > > I'll share with you the facts (to the best of our knowledge) so you can > > make > > your own decision on this one. AT&T has numbers in about 93-95% of the > > country. You could buy a PRI from AT&T and likely pay $700-800 per > month. > > We would order the PRI for you because we would need to be the > > administrative contact to order the DIDs. We would bill you the > > pass-through cost of the PRI. You can put about 200 customers on that > > PRI, > > oversubscribing by a factor of 10, knowing that only a portion of those > > customers will be on the phone at the same time. Thus you have to be > able > > to recover that additional cost of about $4 per sub, once you reach the > > 200 > > level of customers (more until you get there). Then you need another PRI > > of > > course. But the inbound call from AT&T will be TDM, which has to be > > converted to IP, so you will need to install a router at your location. > > We > > would recommend a specific CISCO router, which you would have to pay for > > and > > install, for about $10-12K. You would own the box, but send it to us to > > c
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
http://www.wisptech.com/index.php/Animal_Farm www.wirelessbeehive.com/animalfarm - Original Message - From: "Ron Harden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > No doubt I should have picked this up before Chuck, but what is the > "animal > farm" event? > > Yes if I can contibute and work it out with my schedule, what ever it is. > > Ron > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:12 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > Ron, > Do you want to present at AnimalFarm this winter? > I think this topic would be very interesting for all. > > - Original Message - > From: "Ron Harden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:56 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > >> Yes, we source numbers from Level 3 and others. DID coverage is key to >> any >> successful digital voice program. There are some small mom-and-pop LECs >> that will not give up numbers because they a) don't want any competition, >> and b) don't have to. If we cannot get numbers in a particular rate >> center >> (RC), then we cannot port the number. But as a general rule, if we can >> get >> numbers, then the vast majority of the time, we can port that number. >> This >> is why we always ask our customers for targeted locations, based on rate >> center, or NPA/NXX, to determine if we can get numbers. In most cases, >> we >> can. Our current DID providers cover greater than 70% of the US. We >> also >> offer DID (and port) in Canada and Puerto Rico. Where we cannot get >> numbers, here are the options: >> >> >> >> 1.We search for a provider that has numbers, and we are always >> looking >> for more. But they have to be able to connect with us electronically, or >> we >> move on. Our process is fully automated from the time someone submits an >> order, it's untouched by human hands until the fedex label prints and we >> ship the ATA (if the service provider chooses to have us drop ship to >> their >> customers). Most WISPs chose to purchase ATAs in bulk to have the units >> on >> a truck and close to their market for immediate install. In that case >> they >> just activate the unit on line. Sometimes numbers are available, but >> without an automated process, we cannot make it work. >> >> >> >> 2.When DIDs are available to a particular RC, the provider has the >> option of providing a number from the nearest location. Many times we >> can >> get numbers from an alternative RC that still represents a local call for >> friends and neighbors. But if that fails, providing an alternative >> number >> from another rate center is more difficult to sell. Friends and family >> on >> the same service would of course call each other for free, but that's a >> more >> difficult marketing challenge. >> >> >> >> 3.The PRI route that John mentions has to be carefully considered. >> We >> have gone down this path for a few of our cable customers where they >> needed >> DIDs at a head end location and the numbers justified their investment. >> I'll share with you the facts (to the best of our knowledge) so you can >> make >> your own decision on this one. AT&T has numbers in about 93-95% of the >> country. You could buy a PRI from AT&T and likely pay $700-800 per >> month. >> We would order the PRI for you because we would need to be the >> administrative contact to order the DIDs. We would bill you the >> pass-through cost of the PRI. You can put about 200 customers on that >> PRI, >> oversubscribing by a factor of 10, knowing that only a portion of those >> customers will be on the phone at the same time. Thus you have to be >> able >> to recover that additional cost of about $4 per sub, once you reach the >> 200 >> level of customers (more until you get there). Then you need another PRI >> of >> course. But the inbound call from AT&T will be TDM, which has to be >> converted to IP, so you will need to install a router at your location. >> We >> would recommend a specific CISCO router, which you would have to pay for >> and &
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
Hey Ron, Thanks for you input, greatly appreciated. I just hate watching potential go down the drain. We're small and rural and that unfortunately lends itself to less opportunities. Thanks for all your help. John On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Ron Harden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry...I meant to say that I will let you know... > > It must be time to pull the plug for the day! > > Ron > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Ron Harden > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:45 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > John: Let me know what our porting guru says tomorrow. She's good, but > does not work as many hours as I do! > > Ron > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of John McDowell > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:13 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > This was an email from a Rep at the Coop when one of my employees tried to > port their home number to their new Vox/Boonlink ATA: > > Mr. Williamson, > > First, a Trading Partner Profile (TPP) is an agreement between two > communications companies that allows the sharing of necessary information > (Name, Company Codes, Addresses, and other required technical information) > and sometimes serves as an unofficial agreement between the companies. You > don't have to do anything for FTC and Voxcorp to exchange a TPP. However, > Voxcorp must submit a bona fide request (BFR) to FTC requesting the ability > to port numbers (which they've not done), and then the two companies would > exchange the TPPs or exchange other industry standard agreements to allow > port processing. > > Voxcorp has never requested the ability to port numbers with FTC. All they > have to do is request, through normal FCC procedures, the ability to port, > and then FTC will move forward with the porting process. They cannot, > however, just send a request to port the number to them and expect us to > process that request. They know that, as a communications company, they > must follow FCC mandated processes before we can move forward. It is > illegal for either company to do so otherwise. If their representative > will > contact me, send a BFR, and then we will move forward with the process. > Otherwise, there is nothing FTC can do. > > Please be assured that the statement that your "VoIP company .could not get > Farmers to port my number" is not an accurate or true statement. Your VoIP > company hasn't used any of the industry standard procedures, to my > knowledge, to attempt to port your number. FTC has no reason to stop this > process. > > If you do successfully port your local number to your VoIP provider, then > your local landline service will be disconnected. We will have to > disconnect your DSL as well. If this happens, consider that you will have > to have another high speed internet provider for your VoIP service to work. > Also, there are safety considerations as to the effectiveness of emergency > service calls (911, etc...) when using a VoIP service. Please be informed > of all the details surrounding these issues. Your VoIP provider should be > able to provide you with all of the related information. You may already > be > aware of all of this, but there are several items to consider before > disconnecting your local service. > > I hope this information helps you. Let me know if I can be of more > assistance. Feel free to contact us at anytime. > > Sincerely, > > Chris Townson > > On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > I don't think that exemption applied to LNP. It did for a while to keep > > CLECs out of the rural areas but that has now sunset. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Anthony Will" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "WISPA General List" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:17 PM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > > > > > > If you take a look at the exemption they have to have less then 50,000 > > > phone numbers or lines. I can't remember which. > > > Do a bit of research on it and find the exact clause that enables them > > > to do that. Most likely they are to large to qualify. Then send them > a > > > nice letter from a nice attorney. Also be ready for the long haul. > > > They will fight it just to keep you and others from coming in if they > > > are in the right or no
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
No doubt I should have picked this up before Chuck, but what is the "animal farm" event? Yes if I can contibute and work it out with my schedule, what ever it is. Ron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers Ron, Do you want to present at AnimalFarm this winter? I think this topic would be very interesting for all. - Original Message - From: "Ron Harden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > Yes, we source numbers from Level 3 and others. DID coverage is key to > any > successful digital voice program. There are some small mom-and-pop LECs > that will not give up numbers because they a) don't want any competition, > and b) don't have to. If we cannot get numbers in a particular rate > center > (RC), then we cannot port the number. But as a general rule, if we can > get > numbers, then the vast majority of the time, we can port that number. > This > is why we always ask our customers for targeted locations, based on rate > center, or NPA/NXX, to determine if we can get numbers. In most cases, we > can. Our current DID providers cover greater than 70% of the US. We also > offer DID (and port) in Canada and Puerto Rico. Where we cannot get > numbers, here are the options: > > > > 1.We search for a provider that has numbers, and we are always looking > for more. But they have to be able to connect with us electronically, or > we > move on. Our process is fully automated from the time someone submits an > order, it's untouched by human hands until the fedex label prints and we > ship the ATA (if the service provider chooses to have us drop ship to > their > customers). Most WISPs chose to purchase ATAs in bulk to have the units > on > a truck and close to their market for immediate install. In that case > they > just activate the unit on line. Sometimes numbers are available, but > without an automated process, we cannot make it work. > > > > 2.When DIDs are available to a particular RC, the provider has the > option of providing a number from the nearest location. Many times we can > get numbers from an alternative RC that still represents a local call for > friends and neighbors. But if that fails, providing an alternative number > from another rate center is more difficult to sell. Friends and family on > the same service would of course call each other for free, but that's a > more > difficult marketing challenge. > > > > 3.The PRI route that John mentions has to be carefully considered. We > have gone down this path for a few of our cable customers where they > needed > DIDs at a head end location and the numbers justified their investment. > I'll share with you the facts (to the best of our knowledge) so you can > make > your own decision on this one. AT&T has numbers in about 93-95% of the > country. You could buy a PRI from AT&T and likely pay $700-800 per month. > We would order the PRI for you because we would need to be the > administrative contact to order the DIDs. We would bill you the > pass-through cost of the PRI. You can put about 200 customers on that > PRI, > oversubscribing by a factor of 10, knowing that only a portion of those > customers will be on the phone at the same time. Thus you have to be able > to recover that additional cost of about $4 per sub, once you reach the > 200 > level of customers (more until you get there). Then you need another PRI > of > course. But the inbound call from AT&T will be TDM, which has to be > converted to IP, so you will need to install a router at your location. > We > would recommend a specific CISCO router, which you would have to pay for > and > install, for about $10-12K. You would own the box, but send it to us to > configure it for you. You would be responsible for the install, and of > course the power back up, A/C, and Internet feed. You will likely be > under > water until you reach 100 customers on the PRI, still having to amortize > the > cost of the router. > > > > You are all subject-matter-experts and your expertise is better than mine > on > the technical nuances of what is required, and costs vary by market. If > you > wish to pursue option 3, we will work with you to make it painless (except > for the cost side of the equation). So the PRI route is only undertaken > in > unique circumstances where you are comfortable that the market poten
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
Sorry...I meant to say that I will let you know... It must be time to pull the plug for the day! Ron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Harden Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:45 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers John: Let me know what our porting guru says tomorrow. She's good, but does not work as many hours as I do! Ron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John McDowell Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers This was an email from a Rep at the Coop when one of my employees tried to port their home number to their new Vox/Boonlink ATA: Mr. Williamson, First, a Trading Partner Profile (TPP) is an agreement between two communications companies that allows the sharing of necessary information (Name, Company Codes, Addresses, and other required technical information) and sometimes serves as an unofficial agreement between the companies. You don't have to do anything for FTC and Voxcorp to exchange a TPP. However, Voxcorp must submit a bona fide request (BFR) to FTC requesting the ability to port numbers (which they've not done), and then the two companies would exchange the TPPs or exchange other industry standard agreements to allow port processing. Voxcorp has never requested the ability to port numbers with FTC. All they have to do is request, through normal FCC procedures, the ability to port, and then FTC will move forward with the porting process. They cannot, however, just send a request to port the number to them and expect us to process that request. They know that, as a communications company, they must follow FCC mandated processes before we can move forward. It is illegal for either company to do so otherwise. If their representative will contact me, send a BFR, and then we will move forward with the process. Otherwise, there is nothing FTC can do. Please be assured that the statement that your "VoIP company .could not get Farmers to port my number" is not an accurate or true statement. Your VoIP company hasn't used any of the industry standard procedures, to my knowledge, to attempt to port your number. FTC has no reason to stop this process. If you do successfully port your local number to your VoIP provider, then your local landline service will be disconnected. We will have to disconnect your DSL as well. If this happens, consider that you will have to have another high speed internet provider for your VoIP service to work. Also, there are safety considerations as to the effectiveness of emergency service calls (911, etc...) when using a VoIP service. Please be informed of all the details surrounding these issues. Your VoIP provider should be able to provide you with all of the related information. You may already be aware of all of this, but there are several items to consider before disconnecting your local service. I hope this information helps you. Let me know if I can be of more assistance. Feel free to contact us at anytime. Sincerely, Chris Townson On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't think that exemption applied to LNP. It did for a while to keep > CLECs out of the rural areas but that has now sunset. > > - Original Message - > From: "Anthony Will" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:17 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > > > If you take a look at the exemption they have to have less then 50,000 > > phone numbers or lines. I can't remember which. > > Do a bit of research on it and find the exact clause that enables them > > to do that. Most likely they are to large to qualify. Then send them a > > nice letter from a nice attorney. Also be ready for the long haul. > > They will fight it just to keep you and others from coming in if they > > are in the right or not. It would be a good idea to find some others in > > your area with a interest in this such as the local cable company or > > others that would want the same thing. Pool your resource and make it > > look like you and your partners are as big as they come. > > > > Anthony Will > > Broadband Corp. > > http://www.broadband-mn.com > > > > > > > > John McDowell wrote: > >> Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? > >> > >> Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, > so > >> they have to be able
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
John: Let me know what our porting guru says tomorrow. She's good, but does not work as many hours as I do! Ron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John McDowell Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers This was an email from a Rep at the Coop when one of my employees tried to port their home number to their new Vox/Boonlink ATA: Mr. Williamson, First, a Trading Partner Profile (TPP) is an agreement between two communications companies that allows the sharing of necessary information (Name, Company Codes, Addresses, and other required technical information) and sometimes serves as an unofficial agreement between the companies. You don't have to do anything for FTC and Voxcorp to exchange a TPP. However, Voxcorp must submit a bona fide request (BFR) to FTC requesting the ability to port numbers (which they've not done), and then the two companies would exchange the TPPs or exchange other industry standard agreements to allow port processing. Voxcorp has never requested the ability to port numbers with FTC. All they have to do is request, through normal FCC procedures, the ability to port, and then FTC will move forward with the porting process. They cannot, however, just send a request to port the number to them and expect us to process that request. They know that, as a communications company, they must follow FCC mandated processes before we can move forward. It is illegal for either company to do so otherwise. If their representative will contact me, send a BFR, and then we will move forward with the process. Otherwise, there is nothing FTC can do. Please be assured that the statement that your "VoIP company .could not get Farmers to port my number" is not an accurate or true statement. Your VoIP company hasn't used any of the industry standard procedures, to my knowledge, to attempt to port your number. FTC has no reason to stop this process. If you do successfully port your local number to your VoIP provider, then your local landline service will be disconnected. We will have to disconnect your DSL as well. If this happens, consider that you will have to have another high speed internet provider for your VoIP service to work. Also, there are safety considerations as to the effectiveness of emergency service calls (911, etc...) when using a VoIP service. Please be informed of all the details surrounding these issues. Your VoIP provider should be able to provide you with all of the related information. You may already be aware of all of this, but there are several items to consider before disconnecting your local service. I hope this information helps you. Let me know if I can be of more assistance. Feel free to contact us at anytime. Sincerely, Chris Townson On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't think that exemption applied to LNP. It did for a while to keep > CLECs out of the rural areas but that has now sunset. > > - Original Message - > From: "Anthony Will" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:17 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > > > If you take a look at the exemption they have to have less then 50,000 > > phone numbers or lines. I can't remember which. > > Do a bit of research on it and find the exact clause that enables them > > to do that. Most likely they are to large to qualify. Then send them a > > nice letter from a nice attorney. Also be ready for the long haul. > > They will fight it just to keep you and others from coming in if they > > are in the right or not. It would be a good idea to find some others in > > your area with a interest in this such as the local cable company or > > others that would want the same thing. Pool your resource and make it > > look like you and your partners are as big as they come. > > > > Anthony Will > > Broadband Corp. > > http://www.broadband-mn.com > > > > > > > > John McDowell wrote: > >> Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? > >> > >> Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, > so > >> they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like > >> this.. > >> > >> Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their > cellular, > >> and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with > PRIs??? > >> > >> Somebody have a solution? > >> > >> > > > > > > > ---
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
Hmm, sounds like they have been through this before. I don't think a TPP is the same thing as an interconnect agreement. That is a new term to me (but may be in widespread use, I am probably ignorant of that level of detail).But it sounds like it may be better and simpler than an interconnect agreement. - Original Message - From: "John McDowell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers Is a Trading Partner Profile an Interconnect agreement? The guy from the COOP went on to say this: Mr. Williamson: There are two important parts to my response. I’ll first explain what you should do to request your number being ported. Secondly, I’ll comment on the requirements of the VOIP company. This is general information that applies to porting a landline number. I have not reviewed your personal account. Part 1 · Keep your current number active and in good status. If your current number is disconnected or not paid, you cannot port it until it is restored. · Contact the company that you intend to port to. That company will send a port request to FTC. If all the information they submit to FTC is correct then the port will be completed at the prescribed time on the order. Part 2 · At this time, no VOIP provider in the north Alabama area has provided FTC with a Trading Partner Profile (TPP). The TPP is a document that allows the sharing of necessary information and serves as an unofficial agreement between the companies. The TPP is required before a port can take place. If the company you want to port to sends FTC a TPP, we will process it and then complete the port when submitted. Until an agreement has been reached between the two companies, no port can take place. · Finally, non-geographic porting of numbers is still not allowed at this time by the FCC. If the other company provides service in the Rainsville Rate Center, then the number can be ported legally. If the company provides service in Gadsden, for instance, but not in Rainsville, then the number should not be ported. The VoIP provider should be able to tell you if they actually offer service in Rainsville that is in compliance with Federal Communications Commission and Alabama Public Service Commission rules. I hope this answers your questions. I’ll be glad to try and expand more on this process if you’d like. It can be pretty complicated even for those of us that deal with it on a consistent basis. The only caution I have is to be sure you have all of the available information about the product/service you may be purchasing. We’ve had several customers that have ported numbers to other companies and came back relatively quickly b/c they didn’t get what they thought they were getting. Let me know if you’d like for us to take a look at your account and see if we can also accommodate your specific need as a customer. We appreciate your business. You can call the office and ask for me directly at 256/638-2144, or you may speak to any of our CSRs at the same number. Sincerely, Chris Townson On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ron, > Do you want to present at AnimalFarm this winter? > I think this topic would be very interesting for all. > > - Original Message - > From: "Ron Harden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:56 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > > > Yes, we source numbers from Level 3 and others. DID coverage is key to > > any > > successful digital voice program. There are some small mom-and-pop LECs > > that will not give up numbers because they a) don't want any > > competition, > > and b) don't have to. If we cannot get numbers in a particular rate > > center > > (RC), then we cannot port the number. But as a general rule, if we can > > get > > numbers, then the vast majority of the time, we can port that number. > > This > > is why we always ask our customers for targeted locations, based on rate > > center, or NPA/NXX, to determine if we can get numbers. In most cases, > we > > can. Our current DID providers cover greater than 70% of the US. We > also > > offer DID (and port) in Canada and Puerto Rico. Where we cannot get > > numbers, here are the options: > > > > > > > > 1.We search for a provider that has numbers, and we are always > looking > > for more. But they have to be able to connect with us electronically, > > or > > we > > move on. Our process is fully automated from the time someone submits
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
Is a Trading Partner Profile an Interconnect agreement? The guy from the COOP went on to say this: Mr. Williamson: There are two important parts to my response. I’ll first explain what you should do to request your number being ported. Secondly, I’ll comment on the requirements of the VOIP company. This is general information that applies to porting a landline number. I have not reviewed your personal account. Part 1 · Keep your current number active and in good status. If your current number is disconnected or not paid, you cannot port it until it is restored. · Contact the company that you intend to port to. That company will send a port request to FTC. If all the information they submit to FTC is correct then the port will be completed at the prescribed time on the order. Part 2 · At this time, no VOIP provider in the north Alabama area has provided FTC with a Trading Partner Profile (TPP). The TPP is a document that allows the sharing of necessary information and serves as an unofficial agreement between the companies. The TPP is required before a port can take place. If the company you want to port to sends FTC a TPP, we will process it and then complete the port when submitted. Until an agreement has been reached between the two companies, no port can take place. · Finally, non-geographic porting of numbers is still not allowed at this time by the FCC. If the other company provides service in the Rainsville Rate Center, then the number can be ported legally. If the company provides service in Gadsden, for instance, but not in Rainsville, then the number should not be ported. The VoIP provider should be able to tell you if they actually offer service in Rainsville that is in compliance with Federal Communications Commission and Alabama Public Service Commission rules. I hope this answers your questions. I’ll be glad to try and expand more on this process if you’d like. It can be pretty complicated even for those of us that deal with it on a consistent basis. The only caution I have is to be sure you have all of the available information about the product/service you may be purchasing. We’ve had several customers that have ported numbers to other companies and came back relatively quickly b/c they didn’t get what they thought they were getting. Let me know if you’d like for us to take a look at your account and see if we can also accommodate your specific need as a customer. We appreciate your business. You can call the office and ask for me directly at 256/638-2144, or you may speak to any of our CSRs at the same number. Sincerely, Chris Townson On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ron, > Do you want to present at AnimalFarm this winter? > I think this topic would be very interesting for all. > > - Original Message - > From: "Ron Harden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:56 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > > > Yes, we source numbers from Level 3 and others. DID coverage is key to > > any > > successful digital voice program. There are some small mom-and-pop LECs > > that will not give up numbers because they a) don't want any competition, > > and b) don't have to. If we cannot get numbers in a particular rate > > center > > (RC), then we cannot port the number. But as a general rule, if we can > > get > > numbers, then the vast majority of the time, we can port that number. > > This > > is why we always ask our customers for targeted locations, based on rate > > center, or NPA/NXX, to determine if we can get numbers. In most cases, > we > > can. Our current DID providers cover greater than 70% of the US. We > also > > offer DID (and port) in Canada and Puerto Rico. Where we cannot get > > numbers, here are the options: > > > > > > > > 1.We search for a provider that has numbers, and we are always > looking > > for more. But they have to be able to connect with us electronically, or > > we > > move on. Our process is fully automated from the time someone submits an > > order, it's untouched by human hands until the fedex label prints and we > > ship the ATA (if the service provider chooses to have us drop ship to > > their > > customers). Most WISPs chose to purchase ATAs in bulk to have the units > > on > > a truck and close to their market for immediate install. In that case > > they > > just activate the unit on line. Sometimes numbers are available, but > > without an automated process, we cannot make it work. > > > > > > &g
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
This was an email from a Rep at the Coop when one of my employees tried to port their home number to their new Vox/Boonlink ATA: Mr. Williamson, First, a Trading Partner Profile (TPP) is an agreement between two communications companies that allows the sharing of necessary information (Name, Company Codes, Addresses, and other required technical information) and sometimes serves as an unofficial agreement between the companies. You don't have to do anything for FTC and Voxcorp to exchange a TPP. However, Voxcorp must submit a bona fide request (BFR) to FTC requesting the ability to port numbers (which they've not done), and then the two companies would exchange the TPPs or exchange other industry standard agreements to allow port processing. Voxcorp has never requested the ability to port numbers with FTC. All they have to do is request, through normal FCC procedures, the ability to port, and then FTC will move forward with the porting process. They cannot, however, just send a request to port the number to them and expect us to process that request. They know that, as a communications company, they must follow FCC mandated processes before we can move forward. It is illegal for either company to do so otherwise. If their representative will contact me, send a BFR, and then we will move forward with the process. Otherwise, there is nothing FTC can do. Please be assured that the statement that your "VoIP company …could not get Farmers to port my number" is not an accurate or true statement. Your VoIP company hasn't used any of the industry standard procedures, to my knowledge, to attempt to port your number. FTC has no reason to stop this process. If you do successfully port your local number to your VoIP provider, then your local landline service will be disconnected. We will have to disconnect your DSL as well. If this happens, consider that you will have to have another high speed internet provider for your VoIP service to work. Also, there are safety considerations as to the effectiveness of emergency service calls (911, etc...) when using a VoIP service. Please be informed of all the details surrounding these issues. Your VoIP provider should be able to provide you with all of the related information. You may already be aware of all of this, but there are several items to consider before disconnecting your local service. I hope this information helps you. Let me know if I can be of more assistance. Feel free to contact us at anytime. Sincerely, Chris Townson On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't think that exemption applied to LNP. It did for a while to keep > CLECs out of the rural areas but that has now sunset. > > - Original Message - > From: "Anthony Will" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:17 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > > > If you take a look at the exemption they have to have less then 50,000 > > phone numbers or lines. I can't remember which. > > Do a bit of research on it and find the exact clause that enables them > > to do that. Most likely they are to large to qualify. Then send them a > > nice letter from a nice attorney. Also be ready for the long haul. > > They will fight it just to keep you and others from coming in if they > > are in the right or not. It would be a good idea to find some others in > > your area with a interest in this such as the local cable company or > > others that would want the same thing. Pool your resource and make it > > look like you and your partners are as big as they come. > > > > Anthony Will > > Broadband Corp. > > http://www.broadband-mn.com > > > > > > > > John McDowell wrote: > >> Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? > >> > >> Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, > so > >> they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like > >> this.. > >> > >> Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their > cellular, > >> and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with > PRIs??? > >> > >> Somebody have a solution? > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mai
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
Ron, Do you want to present at AnimalFarm this winter? I think this topic would be very interesting for all. - Original Message - From: "Ron Harden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > Yes, we source numbers from Level 3 and others. DID coverage is key to > any > successful digital voice program. There are some small mom-and-pop LECs > that will not give up numbers because they a) don't want any competition, > and b) don't have to. If we cannot get numbers in a particular rate > center > (RC), then we cannot port the number. But as a general rule, if we can > get > numbers, then the vast majority of the time, we can port that number. > This > is why we always ask our customers for targeted locations, based on rate > center, or NPA/NXX, to determine if we can get numbers. In most cases, we > can. Our current DID providers cover greater than 70% of the US. We also > offer DID (and port) in Canada and Puerto Rico. Where we cannot get > numbers, here are the options: > > > > 1.We search for a provider that has numbers, and we are always looking > for more. But they have to be able to connect with us electronically, or > we > move on. Our process is fully automated from the time someone submits an > order, it's untouched by human hands until the fedex label prints and we > ship the ATA (if the service provider chooses to have us drop ship to > their > customers). Most WISPs chose to purchase ATAs in bulk to have the units > on > a truck and close to their market for immediate install. In that case > they > just activate the unit on line. Sometimes numbers are available, but > without an automated process, we cannot make it work. > > > > 2.When DIDs are available to a particular RC, the provider has the > option of providing a number from the nearest location. Many times we can > get numbers from an alternative RC that still represents a local call for > friends and neighbors. But if that fails, providing an alternative number > from another rate center is more difficult to sell. Friends and family on > the same service would of course call each other for free, but that's a > more > difficult marketing challenge. > > > > 3.The PRI route that John mentions has to be carefully considered. We > have gone down this path for a few of our cable customers where they > needed > DIDs at a head end location and the numbers justified their investment. > I'll share with you the facts (to the best of our knowledge) so you can > make > your own decision on this one. AT&T has numbers in about 93-95% of the > country. You could buy a PRI from AT&T and likely pay $700-800 per month. > We would order the PRI for you because we would need to be the > administrative contact to order the DIDs. We would bill you the > pass-through cost of the PRI. You can put about 200 customers on that > PRI, > oversubscribing by a factor of 10, knowing that only a portion of those > customers will be on the phone at the same time. Thus you have to be able > to recover that additional cost of about $4 per sub, once you reach the > 200 > level of customers (more until you get there). Then you need another PRI > of > course. But the inbound call from AT&T will be TDM, which has to be > converted to IP, so you will need to install a router at your location. > We > would recommend a specific CISCO router, which you would have to pay for > and > install, for about $10-12K. You would own the box, but send it to us to > configure it for you. You would be responsible for the install, and of > course the power back up, A/C, and Internet feed. You will likely be > under > water until you reach 100 customers on the PRI, still having to amortize > the > cost of the router. > > > > You are all subject-matter-experts and your expertise is better than mine > on > the technical nuances of what is required, and costs vary by market. If > you > wish to pursue option 3, we will work with you to make it painless (except > for the cost side of the equation). So the PRI route is only undertaken > in > unique circumstances where you are comfortable that the market potential > justifies the investment. > > > > In the past we have owned 3 CLECs and consider ourselves good at porting > numbers. As I said, we can port the vast majority, but only where we can > get numbers assigned. And not every LEC has to sell you their numbers. > > > > Sorry for the long treatise on the issue, but it's complicated as you can > see. I'm n
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
I don't think that exemption applied to LNP. It did for a while to keep CLECs out of the rural areas but that has now sunset. - Original Message - From: "Anthony Will" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > If you take a look at the exemption they have to have less then 50,000 > phone numbers or lines. I can't remember which. > Do a bit of research on it and find the exact clause that enables them > to do that. Most likely they are to large to qualify. Then send them a > nice letter from a nice attorney. Also be ready for the long haul. > They will fight it just to keep you and others from coming in if they > are in the right or not. It would be a good idea to find some others in > your area with a interest in this such as the local cable company or > others that would want the same thing. Pool your resource and make it > look like you and your partners are as big as they come. > > Anthony Will > Broadband Corp. > http://www.broadband-mn.com > > > > John McDowell wrote: >> Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? >> >> Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, so >> they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like >> this.. >> >> Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their cellular, >> and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with PRIs??? >> >> Somebody have a solution? >> >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
Yes, we source numbers from Level 3 and others. DID coverage is key to any successful digital voice program. There are some small mom-and-pop LECs that will not give up numbers because they a) don't want any competition, and b) don't have to. If we cannot get numbers in a particular rate center (RC), then we cannot port the number. But as a general rule, if we can get numbers, then the vast majority of the time, we can port that number. This is why we always ask our customers for targeted locations, based on rate center, or NPA/NXX, to determine if we can get numbers. In most cases, we can. Our current DID providers cover greater than 70% of the US. We also offer DID (and port) in Canada and Puerto Rico. Where we cannot get numbers, here are the options: 1.We search for a provider that has numbers, and we are always looking for more. But they have to be able to connect with us electronically, or we move on. Our process is fully automated from the time someone submits an order, it's untouched by human hands until the fedex label prints and we ship the ATA (if the service provider chooses to have us drop ship to their customers). Most WISPs chose to purchase ATAs in bulk to have the units on a truck and close to their market for immediate install. In that case they just activate the unit on line. Sometimes numbers are available, but without an automated process, we cannot make it work. 2.When DIDs are available to a particular RC, the provider has the option of providing a number from the nearest location. Many times we can get numbers from an alternative RC that still represents a local call for friends and neighbors. But if that fails, providing an alternative number from another rate center is more difficult to sell. Friends and family on the same service would of course call each other for free, but that's a more difficult marketing challenge. 3.The PRI route that John mentions has to be carefully considered. We have gone down this path for a few of our cable customers where they needed DIDs at a head end location and the numbers justified their investment. I'll share with you the facts (to the best of our knowledge) so you can make your own decision on this one. AT&T has numbers in about 93-95% of the country. You could buy a PRI from AT&T and likely pay $700-800 per month. We would order the PRI for you because we would need to be the administrative contact to order the DIDs. We would bill you the pass-through cost of the PRI. You can put about 200 customers on that PRI, oversubscribing by a factor of 10, knowing that only a portion of those customers will be on the phone at the same time. Thus you have to be able to recover that additional cost of about $4 per sub, once you reach the 200 level of customers (more until you get there). Then you need another PRI of course. But the inbound call from AT&T will be TDM, which has to be converted to IP, so you will need to install a router at your location. We would recommend a specific CISCO router, which you would have to pay for and install, for about $10-12K. You would own the box, but send it to us to configure it for you. You would be responsible for the install, and of course the power back up, A/C, and Internet feed. You will likely be under water until you reach 100 customers on the PRI, still having to amortize the cost of the router. You are all subject-matter-experts and your expertise is better than mine on the technical nuances of what is required, and costs vary by market. If you wish to pursue option 3, we will work with you to make it painless (except for the cost side of the equation). So the PRI route is only undertaken in unique circumstances where you are comfortable that the market potential justifies the investment. In the past we have owned 3 CLECs and consider ourselves good at porting numbers. As I said, we can port the vast majority, but only where we can get numbers assigned. And not every LEC has to sell you their numbers. Sorry for the long treatise on the issue, but it's complicated as you can see. I'm not trying to sell you in this case; rather I'm just describing our experience, our process, and your exposure. For those of you that are Vox customers, be sure to work with us to determine where numbers are available before you invest in that market, assuming that digital voice is an important component for ARPU and payback criteria. I will share with you that one of our fastest growing customers is a WISP, and they are experiencing a 92% take rate on voice with their new broadband customers. I hope that helps. I trust you will tell me where you disagree with me. :-) Ron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port t
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/numbport.html Note: Certain small wireline companies may have an exemption from the porting requirements if they have received a waiver from their state public service commission. Customers who want to port a wireline number to a wireless phone, and are told that they cannot, should contact their state public service commission to find out whether their wireline company has been granted a waiver. A directory of state public service commissions can be found at www.naruc.org/commissions.cfm. I was not able to find my PUC list of exemptions but my telephone company was on it. I should look again as they recently changed names. On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am a rural telecom, one of the most rural in the nation. And I wasn't > exempt at all. > > - Original Message - > From: "Jeromie Reeves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:45 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > >> If it is a Rural Telcom, then they are exempt from having to allow >> porting. VZ might just have a deal with them for local cell numbers. >> If you had a PRI then you can get numbers but still, they do not have >> to hand you the number from a leaving customer. At least this is where >> all my research has led me for my local ILEC that I would kill to port >> from. >> >> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM, John McDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? >>> >>> Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, so >>> they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like >>> this.. >>> >>> Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their cellular, >>> and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with PRIs??? >>> >>> Somebody have a solution? >>> >>> -- >>> John M. McDowell >>> Boonlink Communications >>> 307 Grand Ave NW >>> Fort Payne, AL 35967 >>> 256.844.9932 >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> www.boonlink.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or >>> any >>> information contained in the message. If you have received the message in >>> error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and >>> delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to >>> spoofing, >>> spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your >>> computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or >>> the >>> source, please contact the sender directly. >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
They have less than 15,000 land lines... less than 5000 dsl lines. On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Anthony Will <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > If you take a look at the exemption they have to have less then 50,000 > phone numbers or lines. I can't remember which. > Do a bit of research on it and find the exact clause that enables them > to do that. Most likely they are to large to qualify. Then send them a > nice letter from a nice attorney. Also be ready for the long haul. > They will fight it just to keep you and others from coming in if they > are in the right or not. It would be a good idea to find some others in > your area with a interest in this such as the local cable company or > others that would want the same thing. Pool your resource and make it > look like you and your partners are as big as they come. > > Anthony Will > Broadband Corp. > http://www.broadband-mn.com > > > > John McDowell wrote: > > Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? > > > > Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, so > > they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like > > this.. > > > > Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their cellular, > > and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with PRIs??? > > > > Somebody have a solution? > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
Small companies are exempt. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:48 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers I thought it was a Federal Regulation that phone numbers could be ported? That's why the cell companies had to start doing it a year or two ago? Travis Microserv Jeromie Reeves wrote: If it is a Rural Telcom, then they are exempt from having to allow porting. VZ might just have a deal with them for local cell numbers. If you had a PRI then you can get numbers but still, they do not have to hand you the number from a leaving customer. At least this is where all my research has led me for my local ILEC that I would kill to port from. On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM, John McDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, so they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like this.. Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their cellular, and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with PRIs??? Somebody have a solution? -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
If you take a look at the exemption they have to have less then 50,000 phone numbers or lines. I can't remember which. Do a bit of research on it and find the exact clause that enables them to do that. Most likely they are to large to qualify. Then send them a nice letter from a nice attorney. Also be ready for the long haul. They will fight it just to keep you and others from coming in if they are in the right or not. It would be a good idea to find some others in your area with a interest in this such as the local cable company or others that would want the same thing. Pool your resource and make it look like you and your partners are as big as they come. Anthony Will Broadband Corp. http://www.broadband-mn.com John McDowell wrote: > Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? > > Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, so > they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like > this.. > > Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their cellular, > and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with PRIs??? > > Somebody have a solution? > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
But if you are selling voip, you want the local ILEC customer to be able to keep their number. In that case the ILEC has involvement. - Original Message - From: "cw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > You can do something like this > http://www.astrotel.us/AstroTel-SmartMailFaxService.htm or T.38 works. All > phone numbers are portable. Your CLEC or ILEC has no choice in the > matter. - cw > > John McDowell wrote: >> Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? >> >> Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, so >> they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like >> this.. >> >> Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their cellular, >> and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with PRIs??? >> >> Somebody have a solution? >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
You can do something like this http://www.astrotel.us/AstroTel-SmartMailFaxService.htm or T.38 works. All phone numbers are portable. Your CLEC or ILEC has no choice in the matter. - cw John McDowell wrote: > Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? > > Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, so > they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like > this.. > > Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their cellular, > and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with PRIs??? > > Somebody have a solution? > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
Yes, but you probably require a interconnect with the other carrier in order to port the number. More to the point, VOX probably is reselling Level3 or whoever that doesn't have an interconnect with the local LEC and therefore can't port. -Matt On Aug 26, 2008, at 3:49 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > I am a rural telecom, one of the most rural in the nation. And I > wasn't > exempt at all. > > - Original Message - > From: "Jeromie Reeves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:45 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > > >> If it is a Rural Telcom, then they are exempt from having to allow >> porting. VZ might just have a deal with them for local cell numbers. >> If you had a PRI then you can get numbers but still, they do not have >> to hand you the number from a leaving customer. At least this is >> where >> all my research has led me for my local ILEC that I would kill to >> port >> from. >> >> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM, John McDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >>> Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work >>> around? >>> >>> Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with >>> VoxCorp, so >>> they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something >>> like >>> this.. >>> >>> Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their >>> cellular, >>> and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with >>> PRIs??? >>> >>> Somebody have a solution? >>> >>> -- >>> John M. McDowell >>> Boonlink Communications >>> 307 Grand Ave NW >>> Fort Payne, AL 35967 >>> 256.844.9932 >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> www.boonlink.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the >>> message or >>> any >>> information contained in the message. If you have received the >>> message in >>> error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], >>> and >>> delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to >>> spoofing, >>> spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your >>> computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the >>> message or >>> the >>> source, please contact the sender directly. >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by Rapid Link, and is > believed to be clean. > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
I am a rural telecom, one of the most rural in the nation. And I wasn't exempt at all. - Original Message - From: "Jeromie Reeves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers > If it is a Rural Telcom, then they are exempt from having to allow > porting. VZ might just have a deal with them for local cell numbers. > If you had a PRI then you can get numbers but still, they do not have > to hand you the number from a leaving customer. At least this is where > all my research has led me for my local ILEC that I would kill to port > from. > > On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM, John McDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? >> >> Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, so >> they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like >> this.. >> >> Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their cellular, >> and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with PRIs??? >> >> Somebody have a solution? >> >> -- >> John M. McDowell >> Boonlink Communications >> 307 Grand Ave NW >> Fort Payne, AL 35967 >> 256.844.9932 >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> www.boonlink.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or >> any >> information contained in the message. If you have received the message in >> error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and >> delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to >> spoofing, >> spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your >> computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or >> the >> source, please contact the sender directly. >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
I thought it was a Federal Regulation that phone numbers could be ported? That's why the cell companies had to start doing it a year or two ago? Travis Microserv Jeromie Reeves wrote: If it is a Rural Telcom, then they are exempt from having to allow porting. VZ might just have a deal with them for local cell numbers. If you had a PRI then you can get numbers but still, they do not have to hand you the number from a leaving customer. At least this is where all my research has led me for my local ILEC that I would kill to port from. On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM, John McDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, so they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like this.. Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their cellular, and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with PRIs??? Somebody have a solution? -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
True they don't have to port that number, but the customer could force them to forward that number to the PRI? On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Jeromie Reeves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > If it is a Rural Telcom, then they are exempt from having to allow > porting. VZ might just have a deal with them for local cell numbers. > If you had a PRI then you can get numbers but still, they do not have > to hand you the number from a leaving customer. At least this is where > all my research has led me for my local ILEC that I would kill to port > from. > > On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM, John McDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? > > > > Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, so > > they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like > > this.. > > > > Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their cellular, > > and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with PRIs??? > > > > Somebody have a solution? > > > > -- > > John M. McDowell > > Boonlink Communications > > 307 Grand Ave NW > > Fort Payne, AL 35967 > > 256.844.9932 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > www.boonlink.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > > you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or > any > > information contained in the message. If you have received the message in > > error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > > delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to > spoofing, > > spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your > > computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or > the > > source, please contact the sender directly. > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I want to port their numbers!!!!
If it is a Rural Telcom, then they are exempt from having to allow porting. VZ might just have a deal with them for local cell numbers. If you had a PRI then you can get numbers but still, they do not have to hand you the number from a leaving customer. At least this is where all my research has led me for my local ILEC that I would kill to port from. On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM, John McDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Local Cooperative Telco will not let us port. What is my work around? > > Order PRI to our tower in their territory? We're working with VoxCorp, so > they have to be able to grab those numbers even if we do something like > this.. > > Verizon Wireless has local numbers with this company for their cellular, > and it has to be because they have towers in their territory with PRIs??? > > Somebody have a solution? > > -- > John M. McDowell > Boonlink Communications > 307 Grand Ave NW > Fort Payne, AL 35967 > 256.844.9932 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.boonlink.com > > > > > > > This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any > information contained in the message. If you have received the message in > error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, > spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your > computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the > source, please contact the sender directly. > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
