Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser
I was going to look into OpenVPN, but haven't looked at it at all. When I later read more into your blog, I saw you recommend OpenVPN for the secure links. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 11:12 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 18:26 -0500, Mike Hammett wrote: I'd imagine IPSEC would solve that. I haven't looked at it, though. IPSEC would work, but it's a pain to do IPSEC when you're mobile, especially with Mikrotik. OpenVPN offers the same level of encryption and works very well with mobile devices. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser
My personal suggestion is PPTP, it works for me. OpenVPN is superior to IPSec, in my opinion, as it compares quite well but is more flexible. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 12:46 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: I was going to look into OpenVPN, but haven't looked at it at all. When I later read more into your blog, I saw you recommend OpenVPN for the secure links. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 11:12 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 18:26 -0500, Mike Hammett wrote: I'd imagine IPSEC would solve that. I haven't looked at it, though. IPSEC would work, but it's a pain to do IPSEC when you're mobile, especially with Mikrotik. OpenVPN offers the same level of encryption and works very well with mobile devices. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser
I'd imagine IPSEC would solve that. I haven't looked at it, though. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: lakel...@gbcx.net Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:48 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser Be careful of the new federal encryption requirements for anything hooked up to the National Crime Computers. A lot of states have new rules also when interfacing to the state DMV and crime networks Just FYI -B- Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:37:26 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser We currently do this for a local PD. They have 13 of those ruggedized Dell laptops, mounted in all the cars. We looked at 2.4GHz and 900MHz. Even though the town is only 5sqmi, we decided to go with Verizon Aircards. Worked out well, because the laptops are tied directly into their CAD system, which is tied into the whole state. So now they could, theoretically, go anywhere in the state and be dispatched on a call, run plates/people through NCIC, etc. I believe that because of that, they actually got the state to pay for a lot of it. Sure, we don't make anything on the Verizon service, but we do on the backend by tying their CAD into the Internet. Just something to keep in mind, if you have any sort of 3G service in that area. Jayson On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal-Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser
On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 18:26 -0500, Mike Hammett wrote: I'd imagine IPSEC would solve that. I haven't looked at it, though. IPSEC would work, but it's a pain to do IPSEC when you're mobile, especially with Mikrotik. OpenVPN offers the same level of encryption and works very well with mobile devices. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser
You did not expect me to type all that from a Blackberry did you? LOL Thanks Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 12:59:03 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station toCruiser Regardless of the technical side, I would urge you before spending any money or time - contact the AG's office or whoever is the TAC for NCIC in Ohio. While OHLEG does have an internet portal, when you go to the other data centers such as LEADS or NCIC your transport options begin to disappear, as well as mixing the pipe with internet. I have seen this issue cause a couple of real issues before. NLETS is the tool for checking information from other states. It ties all the state networks and the federal systems together. http://www.nlets.org/ When an officer runs a tag, or DL, etc, it dips the state databases, and also dips many other databases through NLETS. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 10:05 AM Subject: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station toCruiser I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal-Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser
You must think the wireless carriers defy physics is you don't believe you can deploy any solution yourself that can't go over 30MPH. Why would your 4.9 not work over 30MPH. Put one good set of equipment on a tall tower with no noise and you are home free. Actually I'd put two sets on the tower for redundancy but you get the picture. Of course, it does depend on the environment as far as mountains, tunnels, forests, large tall buildings etc - I have no idea on the area I'm just suggesting it as an option to have unless it doesn't work - for some other reason that it can go 30MPH lol I promise it looks like the car is motionless then the radio wave travels near speed of light. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 2:39 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser Not for mobility it won't. 4.9GHz is great for point to point or point to multipoint... but if you want mobility... your back to a 4.9GHz mesh to make it work reliably. There is an alvarion 900MHz system that alvarion claims will work from one tower in a situation like this... but without having touched it I won't recommend it :-D It probably comes down to two things: 1) What are the throughput requirements 2) Is mobility required (mobility meaning driving around the city and staying connected) Either way... the most cost effective solution (especially if there is only one or two cars on the force) is going to be utilizing some sort of 3G service. Mesh networks (and I should specify, Mesh networks designed with high speed mobility in mind... some sort of proprietary protocol has to be used for the switching) are going to provide the best coverage at high speeds with the highest throughput... along with giving the city a network it controls. If mobility isn't required... you could do more of a hotspot type solution... or a high gain omni on the car with some high gain omni's on the towers... but there would be no guarantee of reliable service everywhere... Robert... no matter what make sure before you do anything that the expectations are clear, and that you have a contract written. If the city doesn't like the way the network performs, you could have a serious lawsuit on your hands (since it is a public safety application). Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station toCruiser I myself would look into 4.9 or other licensed spectrum. Then you could have gear on one tower and service the whole area... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:46 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station toCruiser IMHO, the only way to do something like this where the office is mobile is with cellular service (although he will need to VPN back to the Police HQ) or to use a Mesh network designed for mobility (since 802.11G tends to fall apart past 30MPH or so). Unless this city want's to make a major investment in Mesh... I'd tell him to stick with the cellular air cards (Verizon, ATT, whatever) and be done with it. Hacking together a solution is probably more effort than its worth, and there could be theoretical consequences if the network doesn't operate correctly. I'm still nowhere close to being able to offload this... but down the pipe I know of a city that is replacing their MOTOMESH Solo network with MOTOMESH Duo... so those nodes would probably be cheap... and it allows the cop cards to go up to 144MPH in the Mesh and still stay connected (its actually really cool technology developed for the US Military... but the most it can do is T1 speeds) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal- Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser
What... I never said 4.9GHz doesn't work past 30MPH. I know for a fact it does What I said is that to assume you put a 4.9GHz AP on a tower in the middle of town and that's going to do it is very short sighted. The EIRP rules in 4.9GHz are not great... and physics is going to prevent you from penetrating tree canopy and houses. Furthermore... point to point operations are the primary use of 4.9GHz spectrum, not point to multipoint. There are lots of politics with the spectrum also... for instance what happens if the county moves in during an emergency and wants to turn on their 4.9GHz gear... usually they get priority and you have to shut off your network. That's why 4.9GHz is not great for mobility... UNLESS your deploying a Mesh. I probably should have specified better ;-D Even then... if the noise floor is low enough... 900MHz and 2.4GHz may be better solutions for signal propagation... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser You must think the wireless carriers defy physics is you don't believe you can deploy any solution yourself that can't go over 30MPH. Why would your 4.9 not work over 30MPH. Put one good set of equipment on a tall tower with no noise and you are home free. Actually I'd put two sets on the tower for redundancy but you get the picture. Of course, it does depend on the environment as far as mountains, tunnels, forests, large tall buildings etc - I have no idea on the area I'm just suggesting it as an option to have unless it doesn't work - for some other reason that it can go 30MPH lol I promise it looks like the car is motionless then the radio wave travels near speed of light. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 2:39 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser Not for mobility it won't. 4.9GHz is great for point to point or point to multipoint... but if you want mobility... your back to a 4.9GHz mesh to make it work reliably. There is an alvarion 900MHz system that alvarion claims will work from one tower in a situation like this... but without having touched it I won't recommend it :-D It probably comes down to two things: 1) What are the throughput requirements 2) Is mobility required (mobility meaning driving around the city and staying connected) Either way... the most cost effective solution (especially if there is only one or two cars on the force) is going to be utilizing some sort of 3G service. Mesh networks (and I should specify, Mesh networks designed with high speed mobility in mind... some sort of proprietary protocol has to be used for the switching) are going to provide the best coverage at high speeds with the highest throughput... along with giving the city a network it controls. If mobility isn't required... you could do more of a hotspot type solution... or a high gain omni on the car with some high gain omni's on the towers... but there would be no guarantee of reliable service everywhere... Robert... no matter what make sure before you do anything that the expectations are clear, and that you have a contract written. If the city doesn't like the way the network performs, you could have a serious lawsuit on your hands (since it is a public safety application). Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station toCruiser I myself would look into 4.9 or other licensed spectrum. Then you could have gear on one tower and service the whole area... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:46 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station toCruiser IMHO, the only way to do something like this where the office is mobile is with cellular service (although he will need to VPN back to the Police HQ) or to use a Mesh network designed for mobility (since 802.11G tends to fall apart past 30MPH or so). Unless this city want's to make a major investment in Mesh... I'd tell him to stick with the cellular air cards (Verizon, ATT, whatever) and be done with it. Hacking together a solution is probably more effort than its worth
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser
I would guess just one AP on the water tower of Town Hall. The place is all flat, no tall buildings but lots of residential with trees. If he could drive, say, faster than 299,792,458 miles per second, he could probably drive back to the station and answer his own radio call. In that case the 4.9 wouldn't be any good. But it's theory at this point since my light speed sled is in the shop for a trany rebuild. But being a small town cop, they usually just sit in the parking lots on the edge of town hoping for speeders. They have, I think, only 2 cars, donated by the state as they replaced them with newer ones. They have no dispatcher, that's handled by the sheriff's department. They can get the same info over the radio but I think he wants to see the actually picture of the drivers license and to be able to see more detailed information of the person he has stopped for driving 39 in a 35mph zone. ( I lost on that one, after all it IS technically speeding, said the judge Sigh) So I see value in what he is trying to do. But I doubt he'll be moving around much while using it, just parked in a lot looking at porn or behind a car running the plates. I kid but I have respect for these guys. Well, most of them anyhow! I certainly don't want to pull people over at night because they have a parking light out. That's lawlessness I don't need to see. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 2:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser You must think the wireless carriers defy physics is you don't believe you can deploy any solution yourself that can't go over 30MPH. Why would your 4.9 not work over 30MPH. Put one good set of equipment on a tall tower with no noise and you are home free. Actually I'd put two sets on the tower for redundancy but you get the picture. Of course, it does depend on the environment as far as mountains, tunnels, forests, large tall buildings etc - I have no idea on the area I'm just suggesting it as an option to have unless it doesn't work - for some other reason that it can go 30MPH lol I promise it looks like the car is motionless then the radio wave travels near speed of light. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 2:39 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from StationtoCruiser Not for mobility it won't. 4.9GHz is great for point to point or point to multipoint... but if you want mobility... your back to a 4.9GHz mesh to make it work reliably. There is an alvarion 900MHz system that alvarion claims will work from one tower in a situation like this... but without having touched it I won't recommend it :-D It probably comes down to two things: 1) What are the throughput requirements 2) Is mobility required (mobility meaning driving around the city and staying connected) Either way... the most cost effective solution (especially if there is only one or two cars on the force) is going to be utilizing some sort of 3G service. Mesh networks (and I should specify, Mesh networks designed with high speed mobility in mind... some sort of proprietary protocol has to be used for the switching) are going to provide the best coverage at high speeds with the highest throughput... along with giving the city a network it controls. If mobility isn't required... you could do more of a hotspot type solution... or a high gain omni on the car with some high gain omni's on the towers... but there would be no guarantee of reliable service everywhere... Robert... no matter what make sure before you do anything that the expectations are clear, and that you have a contract written. If the city doesn't like the way the network performs, you could have a serious lawsuit on your hands (since it is a public safety application). Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station toCruiser I myself would look into 4.9 or other licensed spectrum. Then you could have gear on one tower and service the whole area... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:46 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station toCruiser IMHO, the only way to do something like this where the office
