Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management
But, the model will work if you bill by the bytes If Joe is paying $40 per month for 6 Gig and gets throttled at 6 Gig, then he has a disincentive for keeping going. If he is paying $40 for unlimited access, he has no reason to slow down. Charter cable is doing 10 meg down/1 meg up in some markets for like $99 per month, how can you compete with that? John -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 07:59 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings,By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management No... I don't think that model works... because Joe Surfer sees how fast this last movie downloaded and decides to grab 3 more while he's at it... The model of the customer will use what they are going to use and then get off is not true... imagine if Joe Surfer figures out he can download the movies AND still surf, check email, etc. at the same time? Then he can just leave it downloading 24x7. :( Travis Microserv RickG wrote: Sorry guys for hijacking the thread but this hit a chord... I've sold bandwidth in all sorts of ways but the most prevalent is by speed which is the way am currently doing it. My question is this: What if you played the cable game and just sell all you can eat? Would that not free up your network more quickly for everybody else? Example: Joe Surfer downloads movies on demand but is too cheap to buy your highest speed offering. So, he buys your slowest speed and ties up your network much longer. Just looking for some opinions here ;) Thanks! RickG On 1/24/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OR, we could stop playing the Cable Co. and Telco games with their up to 3meg and up to 7meg connections for $34.95 and just start selling what they get. We started selling 512k, 1meg, 1.5meg and 2meg connections (up and down, guaranteed speed 24x7) about 3 years ago. It was the best thing we ever did... people get what they pay for, and when they need more, they buy more. No games, no burstable speeds, etc. Make your customers pay for what they need and use. Travis Microserv Blair Davis wrote: We sell mainly to residential users and to some small businesses. We are quite rural, and my cost for a T-1 is $450 per month. My pending fiber hookup is $1100 per month for 5Mbit. A bit ago, a business customer's new IT consultant complained that the 256Kbit committed rate for $60 a month was over priced. He demanded a 1Mbit committed rate and no price change. I explained this was not possible. He was quite nasty and told me he was recommending that the customer find a new ISP. I, fed up with his big city attitude, told him to go right ahead. He said to come pick up the gear on this Friday. Although, I might have lost my temper a bit and used some words that the FCC doesn't permit on the phone.. After he was quoted $600 per month for a T1, (and $9500 install), and a 3 month lead time, he called me back... He decided that my offer of 1Mbit committed rate (6am-6pm, Mon-Fri) and a 256Kbit committed rate at other times) for $250 a month was a damn good deal.. The point of this, is that, for many customers, pricing and bandwidth expectations are being driven by the cheap bandwidth in the large cites Out here in the real world, it don't work that way. The other point is, that with a good mix of residential and business customers, and a little creative thinking, one can match their usage patterns to minimize ones peak bandwidth requirements while still providing the 'fast, snappy feel' that the users prefer Just my $.02 J. Vogel wrote: I would suspect that the customer (as is the case in much of the world, not necessarily in the limited world you may operate in) does not want to, or in many case could not pay for such a pipe. In many areas of the US, especially rural, bandwidth is extremely expensive. Customers do not want to pay close to $1k / month for their residential connection to the internet, yet the customer would like to access the internet at speed approaching 1.5 mbps (or even faster) whenever they can. In such a case it makes sense, is good business practice, and not at all unethical to sell customers shared bandwidth. In cases such as these, the question posed by the OP is a valid question, and deserves an answer other than one which implies that they may be doing something they should not be. The world is a big place. It is good to get out and see parts of it you may not have seen lately. John Matt Liotta wrote: Have you thought about selling the customer a pipe that works for any and all traffic at the speed the customer signed up for as opposed to deciding for the customer? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management
Here are the plans I am working to make available in 2007 for our own subscribers: 5 Mbps / 1 Mbps for $59.99 10 Mbps / 2 Mbps for $69.99 15 Mbps / 3 Mbps for $79.99 20 Mbps / 4 Mbps for $89.99 Just because you give someone faster speeds, don't assume they will consume more bandwidth. Our subs with faster speeds use 1/2 as much total bandwidth in any given month as our subs on the slower speed plans offered by our company. It is best to get them on and off your network as fast as you can IMO. If they need something, make it where they can get that something quickly and you'll have a very happy subscriber for life! If you don't someone else will... and when they do, don't blame them, blame yourself for not doing it first. What's hard about competing? Competition around here is beneficial because we beat them hands down in the areas of service and support. We ask our customers for their name when they call, instead of their account #, maybe this has something to do with it? ;-) Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky Your Hometown Broadband Provider http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas - Proud Beta Testers Of ISP Buddy! http://www.ispbuddy.com - - Original Message - From: John J. Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 4:03 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings,By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management But, the model will work if you bill by the bytes If Joe is paying $40 per month for 6 Gig and gets throttled at 6 Gig, then he has a disincentive for keeping going. If he is paying $40 for unlimited access, he has no reason to slow down. Charter cable is doing 10 meg down/1 meg up in some markets for like $99 per month, how can you compete with that? John -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 07:59 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management No... I don't think that model works... because Joe Surfer sees how fast this last movie downloaded and decides to grab 3 more while he's at it... The model of the customer will use what they are going to use and then get off is not true... imagine if Joe Surfer figures out he can download the movies AND still surf, check email, etc. at the same time? Then he can just leave it downloading 24x7. :( Travis Microserv RickG wrote: Sorry guys for hijacking the thread but this hit a chord... I've sold bandwidth in all sorts of ways but the most prevalent is by speed which is the way am currently doing it. My question is this: What if you played the cable game and just sell all you can eat? Would that not free up your network more quickly for everybody else? Example: Joe Surfer downloads movies on demand but is too cheap to buy your highest speed offering. So, he buys your slowest speed and ties up your network much longer. Just looking for some opinions here ;) Thanks! RickG On 1/24/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OR, we could stop playing the Cable Co. and Telco games with their up to 3meg and up to 7meg connections for $34.95 and just start selling what they get. We started selling 512k, 1meg, 1.5meg and 2meg connections (up and down, guaranteed speed 24x7) about 3 years ago. It was the best thing we ever did... people get what they pay for, and when they need more, they buy more. No games, no burstable speeds, etc. Make your customers pay for what they need and use. Travis Microserv Blair Davis wrote: We sell mainly to residential users and to some small businesses. We are quite rural, and my cost for a T-1 is $450 per month. My pending fiber hookup is $1100 per month for 5Mbit. A bit ago, a business customer's new IT consultant complained that the 256Kbit committed rate for $60 a month was over priced. He demanded a 1Mbit committed rate and no price change. I explained this was not possible. He was quite nasty and told me he was recommending that the customer find a new ISP. I, fed up with his big city attitude, told him to go right ahead. He said to come pick up the gear on this Friday. Although, I might have lost my temper a bit and used some words that the FCC doesn't permit on the phone.. After he was quoted $600 per month for a T1, (and $9500 install), and a 3 month lead time, he called me back... He decided that my offer of 1Mbit committed rate (6am-6pm, Mon-Fri) and a 256Kbit committed rate at other times)
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management
Hi, I've said this many times before (starting 5+ years ago when Cable first came to my area)... if you are going to try and compete on price alone, you are going to be out of business soon. The CableCo and Telco's are loosing money on internet services right now, but they don't care. They are in it for the long term (read 15+ years). We are currently the most expensive internet solution in our area: Cable - 3meg - $39.95 DSL - 7meg - $39.95 other WISP - 4meg - $34.95 other MMDS wireless - 1meg - $24.95 Me - 512k - $39.95, 1meg - $49.95 and it goes up from there... and right now, I have over 100 pending orders waiting to be installed. We offer a free wireless firewall, a static IP address, same speed up and down, and local customer service and support. Things the big guys just can't offer. Again, if you are competing on price, you are not going to last long... Travis Microserv John J. Thomas wrote: But, the model will work if you bill by the bytes If Joe is paying $40 per month for 6 Gig and gets throttled at 6 Gig, then he has a disincentive for keeping going. If he is paying $40 for unlimited access, he has no reason to slow down. Charter cable is doing 10 meg down/1 meg up in some markets for like $99 per month, how can you compete with that? John -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 07:59 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management No... I don't think that model works... because Joe Surfer sees how fast this last movie downloaded and decides to grab 3 more while he's at it... The model of "the customer will use what they are going to use and then get off" is not true... imagine if Joe Surfer figures out he can download the movies AND still surf, check email, etc. at the same time? Then he can just leave it downloading 24x7. :( Travis Microserv RickG wrote: Sorry guys for hijacking the thread but this hit a chord... I've sold bandwidth in all sorts of ways but the most prevalent is by speed which is the way am currently doing it. My question is this: What if you played the "cable game" and just sell all you can eat? Would that not free up your network more quickly for everybody else? Example: Joe Surfer downloads movies on demand but is too cheap to buy your highest speed offering. So, he buys your slowest speed and ties up your network much longer. Just looking for some opinions here ;) Thanks! RickG On 1/24/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OR, we could stop playing the Cable Co. and Telco "games" with their "up to 3meg" and "up to 7meg" connections for $34.95 and just start selling what they get. We started selling 512k, 1meg, 1.5meg and 2meg connections (up and down, guaranteed speed 24x7) about 3 years ago. It was the best thing we ever did... people get what they pay for, and when they need more, they buy more. No games, no "burstable" speeds, etc. Make your customers pay for what they need and use. Travis Microserv Blair Davis wrote: We sell mainly to residential users and to some small businesses. We are quite rural, and my cost for a T-1 is $450 per month. My pending fiber hookup is $1100 per month for 5Mbit. A bit ago, a business customer's new IT consultant complained that the 256Kbit committed rate for $60 a month was over priced. He demanded a 1Mbit committed rate and no price change. I explained this was not possible. He was quite nasty and told me he was recommending that the customer find a new ISP. I, fed up with his big city attitude, told him to go right ahead. He said to come pick up the gear on this Friday. Although, I might have lost my temper a bit and used some words that the FCC doesn't permit on the phone.. After he was quoted $600 per month for a T1, (and $9500 install), and a 3 month lead time, he called me back... He decided that my offer of 1Mbit committed rate (6am-6pm, Mon-Fri) and a 256Kbit committed rate at other times) for $250 a month was a damn good deal.. The point of this, is that, for many customers, pricing and bandwidth expectations are being driven by the cheap bandwidth in the large cites Out here in the real world, it don't work that way. The other point is, that with a good mix of residential and business customers, and a little creative thinking, one can match their usage patterns to minimize ones peak bandwidth requirements while still providing the 'fast, snappy feel' that the users prefer Just my $.02 J. Vogel wrote: I would suspect that the customer (as is the case in much of the world, not necessarily in the limited world you may operate in) does not want to, or in many case could not pay for such a pipe. In many
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management
At one time I sold by the byte but only to the high bandwidth users that I would carry otherwise. I've said since 1999 that one day bandwidth will be by the byte. I think this could be the case if once carriers bandwidth was better than anothers. Then someone would pay for it. -RickG On 1/25/07, John J. Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, the model will work if you bill by the bytes If Joe is paying $40 per month for 6 Gig and gets throttled at 6 Gig, then he has a disincentive for keeping going. If he is paying $40 for unlimited access, he has no reason to slow down. Charter cable is doing 10 meg down/1 meg up in some markets for like $99 per month, how can you compete with that? John -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 07:59 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings,By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management No... I don't think that model works... because Joe Surfer sees how fast this last movie downloaded and decides to grab 3 more while he's at it... The model of the customer will use what they are going to use and then get off is not true... imagine if Joe Surfer figures out he can download the movies AND still surf, check email, etc. at the same time? Then he can just leave it downloading 24x7. :( Travis Microserv RickG wrote: Sorry guys for hijacking the thread but this hit a chord... I've sold bandwidth in all sorts of ways but the most prevalent is by speed which is the way am currently doing it. My question is this: What if you played the cable game and just sell all you can eat? Would that not free up your network more quickly for everybody else? Example: Joe Surfer downloads movies on demand but is too cheap to buy your highest speed offering. So, he buys your slowest speed and ties up your network much longer. Just looking for some opinions here ;) Thanks! RickG On 1/24/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OR, we could stop playing the Cable Co. and Telco games with their up to 3meg and up to 7meg connections for $34.95 and just start selling what they get. We started selling 512k, 1meg, 1.5meg and 2meg connections (up and down, guaranteed speed 24x7) about 3 years ago. It was the best thing we ever did... people get what they pay for, and when they need more, they buy more. No games, no burstable speeds, etc. Make your customers pay for what they need and use. Travis Microserv Blair Davis wrote: We sell mainly to residential users and to some small businesses. We are quite rural, and my cost for a T-1 is $450 per month. My pending fiber hookup is $1100 per month for 5Mbit. A bit ago, a business customer's new IT consultant complained that the 256Kbit committed rate for $60 a month was over priced. He demanded a 1Mbit committed rate and no price change. I explained this was not possible. He was quite nasty and told me he was recommending that the customer find a new ISP. I, fed up with his big city attitude, told him to go right ahead. He said to come pick up the gear on this Friday. Although, I might have lost my temper a bit and used some words that the FCC doesn't permit on the phone.. After he was quoted $600 per month for a T1, (and $9500 install), and a 3 month lead time, he called me back... He decided that my offer of 1Mbit committed rate (6am-6pm, Mon-Fri) and a 256Kbit committed rate at other times) for $250 a month was a damn good deal.. The point of this, is that, for many customers, pricing and bandwidth expectations are being driven by the cheap bandwidth in the large cites Out here in the real world, it don't work that way. The other point is, that with a good mix of residential and business customers, and a little creative thinking, one can match their usage patterns to minimize ones peak bandwidth requirements while still providing the 'fast, snappy feel' that the users prefer Just my $.02 J. Vogel wrote: I would suspect that the customer (as is the case in much of the world, not necessarily in the limited world you may operate in) does not want to, or in many case could not pay for such a pipe. In many areas of the US, especially rural, bandwidth is extremely expensive. Customers do not want to pay close to $1k / month for their residential connection to the internet, yet the customer would like to access the internet at speed approaching 1.5 mbps (or even faster) whenever they can. In such a case it makes sense, is good business practice, and not at all unethical to sell customers shared bandwidth. In cases such as these, the question posed by the OP is a valid question, and deserves an answer other than one which implies that they may be doing something they should not be. The world is a big place. It is good to get out and see parts of it you may
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management
Charter cable is doing 10 meg down/1 meg up in some markets for like $99 per month, how can you compete with that? Don't sell bandwidth! I tell all my customers, bandwidth is cheap, and thats just a small percentage of the costs in a Broadband bundle. What I'm really selling them is a Standard of Quality and Response Time. People and ethics aren't cheap. Secondly, play down the benefit of speed. What good is 10 mbps, if most websites won't let you pass more than 1-2 mbps per session anyway? Like they need 10mbps, when their average usage is less than 15 kbps. What customers need is HELP. Sell them what they need. We don't hide behind a web page, and that makes all the difference in the world. Its funny, one of the first things the customer does is they go to our web page, and they ask why we don't have all the bells and wistles and easy signup type stuff online. And I answer truthfully, Do you want to talk to a computer or a person? If you want to talk to a computer, go call Comcast, but get used to it, because that is going to be your only option for real help. We sell 100% from referrals, and person to person communication, the same we support our clients. If thats not valuable to you, we are not the provider for you. The first portion of our sales process is to distinguish ourselves from other ISPs. Most customers jsut don't believe we are different at first. They treat us as we are a Goliath monopoly provider that they are accustomed to. Sure 90% of the subs, only care about price, and for those, the 10 mbps is not even a factor in the decission, they are going to buy the cheapest service. Those are the customers that you don' want, and you just wish them well, and refer them to the wire provider with the worst service. Its the other 10% that you care about. That dream about the day, that they are free to use the Internet unencumbered hassle free. And you sell them hassle free. When I sell broadband its like selling them a service maintenance contract. 1 flat fee, monthly, to guarantee that they have peice of mind. The truth is, almost all WISP business models can survive with a 10% or less market share in a region. Its about understanding your identity, and finding the clients that want what you sell. That model may not scale, but having the largest number of subs is not my goal. My goal is profitabilty, and feeling good about my business day to day, and for that the model works. The funny thing is, most of the customers that we loose are customers, that we haven't communicated with during the previous year. Everything just worked, so they lose touch of who we are and why they bought from us in the fiorst place. What is the value of support, if someone never needed it. The customers that have had a problem, RARELY leave, because they just don;t want to risk losing the quality of support, that they received from us. They realize their time is way more valuable than a couple dollars savings. The number one dispute to commiting to our service is... We just have a basic need with limimted use, we are just looking for something cheap.. They AREN'T ASKING FOR 10 MBPS! Educate them on why they should pay more, and what criteria they should be using to make decisions. Being a successful WISP is about Saving the Day. Do that enough and word will spread. The biggest benefit of Wireless is it Enables WISPs to take action on their own to have the opportunity to save the day. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management
Well stated Tom. I can't tell you how many ISP sites I've been to that don't have phone numbers, or bury them so that they are hard to find. Comcast is the worst with this. Answering the phone is the next issue of course... :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:04 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings,By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management Charter cable is doing 10 meg down/1 meg up in some markets for like $99 per month, how can you compete with that? Don't sell bandwidth! I tell all my customers, bandwidth is cheap, and thats just a small percentage of the costs in a Broadband bundle. What I'm really selling them is a Standard of Quality and Response Time. People and ethics aren't cheap. Secondly, play down the benefit of speed. What good is 10 mbps, if most websites won't let you pass more than 1-2 mbps per session anyway? Like they need 10mbps, when their average usage is less than 15 kbps. What customers need is HELP. Sell them what they need. We don't hide behind a web page, and that makes all the difference in the world. Its funny, one of the first things the customer does is they go to our web page, and they ask why we don't have all the bells and wistles and easy signup type stuff online. And I answer truthfully, Do you want to talk to a computer or a person? If you want to talk to a computer, go call Comcast, but get used to it, because that is going to be your only option for real help. We sell 100% from referrals, and person to person communication, the same we support our clients. If thats not valuable to you, we are not the provider for you. The first portion of our sales process is to distinguish ourselves from other ISPs. Most customers jsut don't believe we are different at first. They treat us as we are a Goliath monopoly provider that they are accustomed to. Sure 90% of the subs, only care about price, and for those, the 10 mbps is not even a factor in the decission, they are going to buy the cheapest service. Those are the customers that you don' want, and you just wish them well, and refer them to the wire provider with the worst service. Its the other 10% that you care about. That dream about the day, that they are free to use the Internet unencumbered hassle free. And you sell them hassle free. When I sell broadband its like selling them a service maintenance contract. 1 flat fee, monthly, to guarantee that they have peice of mind. The truth is, almost all WISP business models can survive with a 10% or less market share in a region. Its about understanding your identity, and finding the clients that want what you sell. That model may not scale, but having the largest number of subs is not my goal. My goal is profitabilty, and feeling good about my business day to day, and for that the model works. The funny thing is, most of the customers that we loose are customers, that we haven't communicated with during the previous year. Everything just worked, so they lose touch of who we are and why they bought from us in the fiorst place. What is the value of support, if someone never needed it. The customers that have had a problem, RARELY leave, because they just don;t want to risk losing the quality of support, that they received from us. They realize their time is way more valuable than a couple dollars savings. The number one dispute to commiting to our service is... We just have a basic need with limimted use, we are just looking for something cheap.. They AREN'T ASKING FOR 10 MBPS! Educate them on why they should pay more, and what criteria they should be using to make decisions. Being a successful WISP is about Saving the Day. Do that enough and word will spread. The biggest benefit of Wireless is it Enables WISPs to take action on their own to have the opportunity to save the day. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management
Which is a whole other issue... we still answer EVERY phone call with a live person... always. No auto attendant. We also don't allow our customers to hold for tech support. They are placed in a call back system and we return the call with a live tech ready to help. You would be surprised how many customers are surprised when a LIVE person answers the phone every time. :) Travis Microserv Jeff Broadwick wrote: Well stated Tom. I can't tell you how many ISP sites I've been to that don't have phone numbers, or bury them so that they are hard to find. Comcast is the worst with this. Answering the phone is the next issue of course... :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:04 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings,By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management Charter cable is doing 10 meg down/1 meg up in some markets for like $99 per month, how can you compete with that? Don't sell bandwidth! I tell all my customers, bandwidth is cheap, and thats just a small percentage of the costs in a Broadband bundle. What I'm really selling them is a Standard of Quality and Response Time. People and ethics aren't cheap. Secondly, play down the benefit of speed. What good is 10 mbps, if most websites won't let you pass more than 1-2 mbps per session anyway? Like they need 10mbps, when their average usage is less than 15 kbps. What customers need is "HELP". Sell them what they need. We don't hide behind a web page, and that makes all the difference in the world. Its funny, one of the first things the customer does is they go to our web page, and they ask why we don't have all the bells and wistles and easy signup type stuff online. And I answer truthfully, "Do you want to talk to a computer or a person?" If you want to talk to a computer, go call Comcast, but get used to it, because that is going to be your only option for real help. "We sell 100% from referrals, and person to person communication, the same we support our clients". If thats not valuable to you, we are not the provider for you. The first portion of our sales process is to distinguish ourselves from other ISPs. Most customers jsut don't believe we are different at first. They treat us as we are a Goliath monopoly provider that they are accustomed to. Sure 90% of the subs, only care about price, and for those, the 10 mbps is not even a factor in the decission, they are going to buy the cheapest service. Those are the customers that you don' want, and you just wish them well, and refer them to the wire provider with the worst service. Its the other 10% that you care about. That dream about the day, that they are free to use the Internet unencumbered hassle free. And you sell them hassle free. When I sell broadband its like selling them a service maintenance contract. 1 flat fee, monthly, to guarantee that they have peice of mind. The truth is, almost all WISP business models can survive with a 10% or less market share in a region. Its about understanding your identity, and finding the clients that want what you sell. That model may not scale, but having the largest number of subs is not my goal. My goal is profitabilty, and feeling good about my business day to day, and for that the model works. The funny thing is, most of the customers that we loose are customers, that we haven't communicated with during the previous year. Everything just worked, so they lose touch of who we are and why they bought from us in the fiorst place. What is the value of support, if someone never needed it. The customers that have had a problem, RARELY leave, because they just don;t want to risk losing the quality of support, that they received from us. They realize their time is way more valuable than a couple dollars savings. The number one dispute to commiting to our service is... "We just have a basic need with limimted use, we are just looking for something cheap.". They AREN'T ASKING FOR 10 MBPS! Educate them on why they should pay more, and what criteria they should be using to make decisions. Being a successful WISP is about "Saving the Day". Do that enough and word will spread. The biggest benefit of Wireless is it "Enables" WISPs to take action on their own to have the opportunity to "save the day". Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management
Holy cow! Stepped away from the 'puter for a bit and see that everyone's beating up on poor 'ol Matt for making a perfectly correct statement! No surprise as to some of the people commenting here that largely promote best effort gear, but others that have commented should know better. Rick, you're on the right track. Keep it up. We have been selling bandwidth packages since day one. If we had not been we wouldn't have seen the organic increase to our bottom line over the past few years as customers upgrade bandwidth packages. The ones complaining about VoIP quality issues are largely the ones that have an open spigot for all their users. The VoIP revolution has been great because many times it requires the client to come back to us for MORE bandwidth. When you sell bandwidth packages that gives you an opportunity to put more dollars in the register. This opportunity can lead to other sales like client network upgrades, extending the service agreement...the list goes on and on. Matt's comment: Have you thought about selling the customer a pipe that works for any and all traffic at the speed the customer signed up for as opposed to deciding for the customer? I see no problem with this comment. Why should it matter to the provider if the bits of data are VoIP, FTP, HTTP, or Xbox? It's all ones and zeros. Build your network to handle it at the levels you are committing to your clients. As they require more they PAY for more! What a concept! Bottom line is don't join the great race to zero with the likes of cable and DSL. Nobody wants to be there fighting it out on price alone against the big guys. Believe me they have more money than you. Instead sell a better service at a fair price. Your clients will thank you and your wallet will too. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Service Offerings,By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management Sorry guys for hijacking the thread but this hit a chord... I've sold bandwidth in all sorts of ways but the most prevalent is by speed which is the way am currently doing it. My question is this: What if you played the cable game and just sell all you can eat? Would that not free up your network more quickly for everybody else? Example: Joe Surfer downloads movies on demand but is too cheap to buy your highest speed offering. So, he buys your slowest speed and ties up your network much longer. Just looking for some opinions here ;) Thanks! RickG On 1/24/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OR, we could stop playing the Cable Co. and Telco games with their up to 3meg and up to 7meg connections for $34.95 and just start selling what they get. We started selling 512k, 1meg, 1.5meg and 2meg connections (up and down, guaranteed speed 24x7) about 3 years ago. It was the best thing we ever did... people get what they pay for, and when they need more, they buy more. No games, no burstable speeds, etc. Make your customers pay for what they need and use. Travis Microserv Blair Davis wrote: We sell mainly to residential users and to some small businesses. We are quite rural, and my cost for a T-1 is $450 per month. My pending fiber hookup is $1100 per month for 5Mbit. A bit ago, a business customer's new IT consultant complained that the 256Kbit committed rate for $60 a month was over priced. He demanded a 1Mbit committed rate and no price change. I explained this was not possible. He was quite nasty and told me he was recommending that the customer find a new ISP. I, fed up with his big city attitude, told him to go right ahead. He said to come pick up the gear on this Friday. Although, I might have lost my temper a bit and used some words that the FCC doesn't permit on the phone.. After he was quoted $600 per month for a T1, (and $9500 install), and a 3 month lead time, he called me back... He decided that my offer of 1Mbit committed rate (6am-6pm, Mon-Fri) and a 256Kbit committed rate at other times) for $250 a month was a damn good deal.. The point of this, is that, for many customers, pricing and bandwidth expectations are being driven by the cheap bandwidth in the large cites Out here in the real world, it don't work that way. The other point is, that with a good mix of residential and business customers, and a little creative thinking, one can match their usage patterns to minimize ones peak bandwidth requirements while still providing the 'fast, snappy feel' that the users prefer Just my $.02 J. Vogel wrote: I would suspect that the customer (as is the case in much of the world, not necessarily in the limited world you may operate in) does not want to, or in many case could not pay for such a pipe. In many areas of the US, especially rural,
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management
No... I don't think that model works... because Joe Surfer sees how fast this last movie downloaded and decides to grab 3 more while he's at it... The model of the customer will use what they are going to use and then get off is not true... imagine if Joe Surfer figures out he can download the movies AND still surf, check email, etc. at the same time? Then he can just leave it downloading 24x7. :( Travis Microserv RickG wrote: Sorry guys for hijacking the thread but this hit a chord... I've sold bandwidth in all sorts of ways but the most prevalent is by speed which is the way am currently doing it. My question is this: What if you played the cable game and just sell all you can eat? Would that not free up your network more quickly for everybody else? Example: Joe Surfer downloads movies on demand but is too cheap to buy your highest speed offering. So, he buys your slowest speed and ties up your network much longer. Just looking for some opinions here ;) Thanks! RickG On 1/24/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OR, we could stop playing the Cable Co. and Telco games with their up to 3meg and up to 7meg connections for $34.95 and just start selling what they get. We started selling 512k, 1meg, 1.5meg and 2meg connections (up and down, guaranteed speed 24x7) about 3 years ago. It was the best thing we ever did... people get what they pay for, and when they need more, they buy more. No games, no burstable speeds, etc. Make your customers pay for what they need and use. Travis Microserv Blair Davis wrote: We sell mainly to residential users and to some small businesses. We are quite rural, and my cost for a T-1 is $450 per month. My pending fiber hookup is $1100 per month for 5Mbit. A bit ago, a business customer's new IT consultant complained that the 256Kbit committed rate for $60 a month was over priced. He demanded a 1Mbit committed rate and no price change. I explained this was not possible. He was quite nasty and told me he was recommending that the customer find a new ISP. I, fed up with his big city attitude, told him to go right ahead. He said to come pick up the gear on this Friday. Although, I might have lost my temper a bit and used some words that the FCC doesn't permit on the phone.. After he was quoted $600 per month for a T1, (and $9500 install), and a 3 month lead time, he called me back... He decided that my offer of 1Mbit committed rate (6am-6pm, Mon-Fri) and a 256Kbit committed rate at other times) for $250 a month was a damn good deal.. The point of this, is that, for many customers, pricing and bandwidth expectations are being driven by the cheap bandwidth in the large cites Out here in the real world, it don't work that way. The other point is, that with a good mix of residential and business customers, and a little creative thinking, one can match their usage patterns to minimize ones peak bandwidth requirements while still providing the 'fast, snappy feel' that the users prefer Just my $.02 J. Vogel wrote: I would suspect that the customer (as is the case in much of the world, not necessarily in the limited world you may operate in) does not want to, or in many case could not pay for such a pipe. In many areas of the US, especially rural, bandwidth is extremely expensive. Customers do not want to pay close to $1k / month for their residential connection to the internet, yet the customer would like to access the internet at speed approaching 1.5 mbps (or even faster) whenever they can. In such a case it makes sense, is good business practice, and not at all unethical to sell customers shared bandwidth. In cases such as these, the question posed by the OP is a valid question, and deserves an answer other than one which implies that they may be doing something they should not be. The world is a big place. It is good to get out and see parts of it you may not have seen lately. John Matt Liotta wrote: Have you thought about selling the customer a pipe that works for any and all traffic at the speed the customer signed up for as opposed to deciding for the customer? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management
Ya, thats my gut feeling and why I havent done it. Thanks! On 1/24/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No... I don't think that model works... because Joe Surfer sees how fast this last movie downloaded and decides to grab 3 more while he's at it... The model of the customer will use what they are going to use and then get off is not true... imagine if Joe Surfer figures out he can download the movies AND still surf, check email, etc. at the same time? Then he can just leave it downloading 24x7. :( Travis Microserv RickG wrote: Sorry guys for hijacking the thread but this hit a chord... I've sold bandwidth in all sorts of ways but the most prevalent is by speed which is the way am currently doing it. My question is this: What if you played the cable game and just sell all you can eat? Would that not free up your network more quickly for everybody else? Example: Joe Surfer downloads movies on demand but is too cheap to buy your highest speed offering. So, he buys your slowest speed and ties up your network much longer. Just looking for some opinions here ;) Thanks! RickG On 1/24/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OR, we could stop playing the Cable Co. and Telco games with their up to 3meg and up to 7meg connections for $34.95 and just start selling what they get. We started selling 512k, 1meg, 1.5meg and 2meg connections (up and down, guaranteed speed 24x7) about 3 years ago. It was the best thing we ever did... people get what they pay for, and when they need more, they buy more. No games, no burstable speeds, etc. Make your customers pay for what they need and use. Travis Microserv Blair Davis wrote: We sell mainly to residential users and to some small businesses. We are quite rural, and my cost for a T-1 is $450 per month. My pending fiber hookup is $1100 per month for 5Mbit. A bit ago, a business customer's new IT consultant complained that the 256Kbit committed rate for $60 a month was over priced. He demanded a 1Mbit committed rate and no price change. I explained this was not possible. He was quite nasty and told me he was recommending that the customer find a new ISP. I, fed up with his big city attitude, told him to go right ahead. He said to come pick up the gear on this Friday. Although, I might have lost my temper a bit and used some words that the FCC doesn't permit on the phone.. After he was quoted $600 per month for a T1, (and $9500 install), and a 3 month lead time, he called me back... He decided that my offer of 1Mbit committed rate (6am-6pm, Mon-Fri) and a 256Kbit committed rate at other times) for $250 a month was a damn good deal.. The point of this, is that, for many customers, pricing and bandwidth expectations are being driven by the cheap bandwidth in the large cites Out here in the real world, it don't work that way. The other point is, that with a good mix of residential and business customers, and a little creative thinking, one can match their usage patterns to minimize ones peak bandwidth requirements while still providing the 'fast, snappy feel' that the users prefer Just my $.02 J. Vogel wrote: I would suspect that the customer (as is the case in much of the world, not necessarily in the limited world you may operate in) does not want to, or in many case could not pay for such a pipe. In many areas of the US, especially rural, bandwidth is extremely expensive. Customers do not want to pay close to $1k / month for their residential connection to the internet, yet the customer would like to access the internet at speed approaching 1.5 mbps (or even faster) whenever they can. In such a case it makes sense, is good business practice, and not at all unethical to sell customers shared bandwidth. In cases such as these, the question posed by the OP is a valid question, and deserves an answer other than one which implies that they may be doing something they should not be. The world is a big place. It is good to get out and see parts of it you may not have seen lately. John Matt Liotta wrote: Have you thought about selling the customer a pipe that works for any and all traffic at the speed the customer signed up for as opposed to deciding for the customer? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings, By Speed or All You Can Eat? Was: Advanced Bandwidth Management
I have a funny story to share which is along these lines. My son is in college now at U of I in a fraternity. (President of his Frat I might add!) When he was in high school he would use our wireless connection at home to download using Bit Torrent and other P2P packages. At that time we had no shaping on the P2P traffic. I would get angry with him because I told him that was not allowed on our network due to all the traffic trouble it caused with the hundreds of connections it would open up. He always thought I was just being a jerk to him. I just got off the phone with him about 15 minutes ago. He was complaining about guys in their frat using up all the bandwidth with Bit Torrent and how the computer science major in the frat house has started policing the bandwidth use. He admitted to me that he felt like he understood me a little better now. It was sure fun tonight to hear him admitting that ol' Dad was maybe right after all! Enjoy your time with your kids guys. Every minute of it. I sure miss him around here. Scriv RickG wrote: Ya, thats my gut feeling and why I havent done it. Thanks! On 1/24/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No... I don't think that model works... because Joe Surfer sees how fast this last movie downloaded and decides to grab 3 more while he's at it... The model of the customer will use what they are going to use and then get off is not true... imagine if Joe Surfer figures out he can download the movies AND still surf, check email, etc. at the same time? Then he can just leave it downloading 24x7. :( Travis Microserv RickG wrote: Sorry guys for hijacking the thread but this hit a chord... I've sold bandwidth in all sorts of ways but the most prevalent is by speed which is the way am currently doing it. My question is this: What if you played the cable game and just sell all you can eat? Would that not free up your network more quickly for everybody else? Example: Joe Surfer downloads movies on demand but is too cheap to buy your highest speed offering. So, he buys your slowest speed and ties up your network much longer. Just looking for some opinions here ;) Thanks! RickG On 1/24/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OR, we could stop playing the Cable Co. and Telco games with their up to 3meg and up to 7meg connections for $34.95 and just start selling what they get. We started selling 512k, 1meg, 1.5meg and 2meg connections (up and down, guaranteed speed 24x7) about 3 years ago. It was the best thing we ever did... people get what they pay for, and when they need more, they buy more. No games, no burstable speeds, etc. Make your customers pay for what they need and use. Travis Microserv Blair Davis wrote: We sell mainly to residential users and to some small businesses. We are quite rural, and my cost for a T-1 is $450 per month. My pending fiber hookup is $1100 per month for 5Mbit. A bit ago, a business customer's new IT consultant complained that the 256Kbit committed rate for $60 a month was over priced. He demanded a 1Mbit committed rate and no price change. I explained this was not possible. He was quite nasty and told me he was recommending that the customer find a new ISP. I, fed up with his big city attitude, told him to go right ahead. He said to come pick up the gear on this Friday. Although, I might have lost my temper a bit and used some words that the FCC doesn't permit on the phone.. After he was quoted $600 per month for a T1, (and $9500 install), and a 3 month lead time, he called me back... He decided that my offer of 1Mbit committed rate (6am-6pm, Mon-Fri) and a 256Kbit committed rate at other times) for $250 a month was a damn good deal.. The point of this, is that, for many customers, pricing and bandwidth expectations are being driven by the cheap bandwidth in the large cites Out here in the real world, it don't work that way. The other point is, that with a good mix of residential and business customers, and a little creative thinking, one can match their usage patterns to minimize ones peak bandwidth requirements while still providing the 'fast, snappy feel' that the users prefer Just my $.02 J. Vogel wrote: I would suspect that the customer (as is the case in much of the world, not necessarily in the limited world you may operate in) does not want to, or in many case could not pay for such a pipe. In many areas of the US, especially rural, bandwidth is extremely expensive. Customers do not want to pay close to $1k / month for their residential connection to the internet, yet the customer would like to access the internet at speed approaching 1.5 mbps (or even faster) whenever they can. In such a case it makes sense, is good business practice, and not at all unethical to sell customers shared bandwidth. In cases such as these,
