Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-06 Thread Tom DeReggi
Even if the Second radio was turned off, it would still receive the signal 
from the other radio, if their was a physical connection/circuit in place. 
Without attennuators in line, I'd assume that over time you'd eventually 
blow the receiver of the other radio even if it was off. Also possibly some 
sort of negative effects relating to impedience.


I'm wondering why you want to do this?

If it is for redundancy, well antennas and cables also fail, so it would be 
pointless to share cable for redundancy. If for Duplexing two radios on one 
link, well both would have to be on at the same time, which is why they make 
Dual Pol/feed antennas.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter



Not a good idea...

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I want to go from two cards to one antenna (wouldn't both be on at same 
time)..  I guess I want a y, to go from 2 n male to 1 n female.


Brian



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Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-06 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
I've been told to never do this.  The output of the transmitting radio will 
totally deafen the receiving one.  It might work for just a few customers at 
a time (or with something that would sinc like the Moto products) but I 
think that much usage on the network would kill it pretty fast.


I've used splitters for two antennas per radio, that seems to work ok.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter


I want to go from two cards to one antenna (wouldn't both be on at same 
time)..  I guess I want a y, to go from 2 n male to 1 n female.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-06 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

Either I am a bad explainer or there are some bad readers here.

Lets start again.  Lately I have had issues because WiFi sucks (wish I 
could afford proprietary)  moving on.I have been using different 
radio cards and have ended up having to switch the pigtails from u.fl to 
mmcx or visa versa.  It sucks to cut away mastic and reseal these n 
female connectors on the bottom of my enclosure.  I would like to leave 
two pigtails attached to my lmr400 n male antenna cable.  Then inside 
the enclosure I could grab whatever pigtail I want to use with the next 
greatest card that I hope will fix everything.


Probably what I should find is a u.fl to mmcx adapter and a mmcx to u.fl 
adapter so I can adapt.  Expanding from that, is there any such WISP 
emergency include all cable adapter kit that exists?


Brian

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I've been told to never do this.  The output of the transmitting radio 
will totally deafen the receiving one.  It might work for just a few 
customers at a time (or with something that would sinc like the Moto 
products) but I think that much usage on the network would kill it 
pretty fast.


I've used splitters for two antennas per radio, that seems to work ok.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter


I want to go from two cards to one antenna (wouldn't both be on at 
same time)..  I guess I want a y, to go from 2 n male to 1 n female.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-06 Thread Jason

Brian,

   This is still a seriously bad idea.  Sorry.  Unterminated pieces of 
coax attached to the system will behave as filters.  For instance, a 
piece of coax that is 1/4 wavelength long acts as a DEAD SHORT if the 
end of it is open.  If the end of the coax is shorted then it acts as an 
infinite resistance (see THE ARRL HANDBOOK on transmission line and 
filter theory).  If you just throw arbitrary length pieces of coax into 
the system, you'll be adding all kinds of band pass/band reject filters 
into your system.  If the pieces are just the right length, it'll work.  
At the very least you'll loose a few decibels due to the additional 
capacitance in the spare coax.


Jason

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Either I am a bad explainer or there are some bad readers here.

Lets start again.  Lately I have had issues because WiFi sucks (wish I 
could afford proprietary)  moving on.I have been using different 
radio cards and have ended up having to switch the pigtails from u.fl 
to mmcx or visa versa.  It sucks to cut away mastic and reseal these n 
female connectors on the bottom of my enclosure.  I would like to 
leave two pigtails attached to my lmr400 n male antenna cable.  Then 
inside the enclosure I could grab whatever pigtail I want to use with 
the next greatest card that I hope will fix everything.


Probably what I should find is a u.fl to mmcx adapter and a mmcx to 
u.fl adapter so I can adapt.  Expanding from that, is there any such 
WISP emergency include all cable adapter kit that exists?


Brian

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I've been told to never do this.  The output of the transmitting 
radio will totally deafen the receiving one.  It might work for just 
a few customers at a time (or with something that would sinc like the 
Moto products) but I think that much usage on the network would kill 
it pretty fast.


I've used splitters for two antennas per radio, that seems to work ok.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter


I want to go from two cards to one antenna (wouldn't both be on at 
same time)..  I guess I want a y, to go from 2 n male to 1 n female.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-06 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

Ya, Blair called and we talked about it.  Ok to the next part.

Probably what I should find is a u.fl to mmcx adapter and a mmcx to u.fl 
adapter so I can adapt.  Expanding from that, is there any such WISP 
emergency include all cable adapter kit that exists?



Brian

Jason wrote:


Brian,

   This is still a seriously bad idea.  Sorry.  Unterminated pieces of 
coax attached to the system will behave as filters.  For instance, a 
piece of coax that is 1/4 wavelength long acts as a DEAD SHORT if the 
end of it is open.  If the end of the coax is shorted then it acts as 
an infinite resistance (see THE ARRL HANDBOOK on transmission line and 
filter theory).  If you just throw arbitrary length pieces of coax 
into the system, you'll be adding all kinds of band pass/band reject 
filters into your system.  If the pieces are just the right length, 
it'll work.  At the very least you'll loose a few decibels due to the 
additional capacitance in the spare coax.


Jason

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Either I am a bad explainer or there are some bad readers here.

Lets start again.  Lately I have had issues because WiFi sucks (wish 
I could afford proprietary)  moving on.I have been using 
different radio cards and have ended up having to switch the pigtails 
from u.fl to mmcx or visa versa.  It sucks to cut away mastic and 
reseal these n female connectors on the bottom of my enclosure.  I 
would like to leave two pigtails attached to my lmr400 n male antenna 
cable.  Then inside the enclosure I could grab whatever pigtail I 
want to use with the next greatest card that I hope will fix 
everything.


Probably what I should find is a u.fl to mmcx adapter and a mmcx to 
u.fl adapter so I can adapt.  Expanding from that, is there any such 
WISP emergency include all cable adapter kit that exists?


Brian

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I've been told to never do this.  The output of the transmitting 
radio will totally deafen the receiving one.  It might work for just 
a few customers at a time (or with something that would sinc like 
the Moto products) but I think that much usage on the network would 
kill it pretty fast.


I've used splitters for two antennas per radio, that seems to work ok.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter


I want to go from two cards to one antenna (wouldn't both be on at 
same time)..  I guess I want a y, to go from 2 n male to 1 n female.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-06 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Put in bulkhead type n-f gender benders.  I use them all of the time.  No 
changing the weather sealing.  Ever.


Just have to use n-m piggys instead of bulkhead ones.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter



Either I am a bad explainer or there are some bad readers here.

Lets start again.  Lately I have had issues because WiFi sucks (wish I 
could afford proprietary)  moving on.I have been using different radio 
cards and have ended up having to switch the pigtails from u.fl to mmcx or 
visa versa.  It sucks to cut away mastic and reseal these n female 
connectors on the bottom of my enclosure.  I would like to leave two 
pigtails attached to my lmr400 n male antenna cable.  Then inside the 
enclosure I could grab whatever pigtail I want to use with the next 
greatest card that I hope will fix everything.


Probably what I should find is a u.fl to mmcx adapter and a mmcx to u.fl 
adapter so I can adapt.  Expanding from that, is there any such WISP 
emergency include all cable adapter kit that exists?


Brian

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I've been told to never do this.  The output of the transmitting radio 
will totally deafen the receiving one.  It might work for just a few 
customers at a time (or with something that would sinc like the Moto 
products) but I think that much usage on the network would kill it pretty 
fast.


I've used splitters for two antennas per radio, that seems to work ok.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter


I want to go from two cards to one antenna (wouldn't both be on at same 
time)..  I guess I want a y, to go from 2 n male to 1 n female.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-06 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
That doesn't apply to inline pieces does it?  Only ones that don't terminate 
to anything


Otherwise every pigtail would be a disaster in the making

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter



Brian,

   This is still a seriously bad idea.  Sorry.  Unterminated pieces of 
coax attached to the system will behave as filters.  For instance, a piece 
of coax that is 1/4 wavelength long acts as a DEAD SHORT if the end of it 
is open.  If the end of the coax is shorted then it acts as an infinite 
resistance (see THE ARRL HANDBOOK on transmission line and filter theory). 
If you just throw arbitrary length pieces of coax into the system, you'll 
be adding all kinds of band pass/band reject filters into your system.  If 
the pieces are just the right length, it'll work.  At the very least 
you'll loose a few decibels due to the additional capacitance in the spare 
coax.


Jason

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Either I am a bad explainer or there are some bad readers here.

Lets start again.  Lately I have had issues because WiFi sucks (wish I 
could afford proprietary)  moving on.I have been using different 
radio cards and have ended up having to switch the pigtails from u.fl to 
mmcx or visa versa.  It sucks to cut away mastic and reseal these n 
female connectors on the bottom of my enclosure.  I would like to leave 
two pigtails attached to my lmr400 n male antenna cable.  Then inside the 
enclosure I could grab whatever pigtail I want to use with the next 
greatest card that I hope will fix everything.


Probably what I should find is a u.fl to mmcx adapter and a mmcx to u.fl 
adapter so I can adapt.  Expanding from that, is there any such WISP 
emergency include all cable adapter kit that exists?


Brian

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I've been told to never do this.  The output of the transmitting radio 
will totally deafen the receiving one.  It might work for just a few 
customers at a time (or with something that would sinc like the Moto 
products) but I think that much usage on the network would kill it 
pretty fast.


I've used splitters for two antennas per radio, that seems to work ok.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter


I want to go from two cards to one antenna (wouldn't both be on at same 
time)..  I guess I want a y, to go from 2 n male to 1 n female.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-06 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
yeah, I carry TWO each of n-m/m and n-f/f connectors in my laptop case.  Do 
the adapters in a bigger lower loss connector.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter



Ya, Blair called and we talked about it.  Ok to the next part.

Probably what I should find is a u.fl to mmcx adapter and a mmcx to u.fl 
adapter so I can adapt.  Expanding from that, is there any such WISP 
emergency include all cable adapter kit that exists?



Brian

Jason wrote:


Brian,

   This is still a seriously bad idea.  Sorry.  Unterminated pieces of 
coax attached to the system will behave as filters.  For instance, a 
piece of coax that is 1/4 wavelength long acts as a DEAD SHORT if the end 
of it is open.  If the end of the coax is shorted then it acts as an 
infinite resistance (see THE ARRL HANDBOOK on transmission line and 
filter theory).  If you just throw arbitrary length pieces of coax into 
the system, you'll be adding all kinds of band pass/band reject filters 
into your system.  If the pieces are just the right length, it'll work. 
At the very least you'll loose a few decibels due to the additional 
capacitance in the spare coax.


Jason

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Either I am a bad explainer or there are some bad readers here.

Lets start again.  Lately I have had issues because WiFi sucks (wish I 
could afford proprietary)  moving on.I have been using different 
radio cards and have ended up having to switch the pigtails from u.fl to 
mmcx or visa versa.  It sucks to cut away mastic and reseal these n 
female connectors on the bottom of my enclosure.  I would like to leave 
two pigtails attached to my lmr400 n male antenna cable.  Then inside 
the enclosure I could grab whatever pigtail I want to use with the next 
greatest card that I hope will fix everything.


Probably what I should find is a u.fl to mmcx adapter and a mmcx to u.fl 
adapter so I can adapt.  Expanding from that, is there any such WISP 
emergency include all cable adapter kit that exists?


Brian

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I've been told to never do this.  The output of the transmitting radio 
will totally deafen the receiving one.  It might work for just a few 
customers at a time (or with something that would sinc like the Moto 
products) but I think that much usage on the network would kill it 
pretty fast.


I've used splitters for two antennas per radio, that seems to work ok.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter


I want to go from two cards to one antenna (wouldn't both be on at 
same time)..  I guess I want a y, to go from 2 n male to 1 n female.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-06 Thread Jason

Marlon,

   Correct, it only applies to open coax (or shorted as in the second 
part of my example).  Normally all the impedances must match for a good 
power transfer, ie, 50ohm transmitter, 50ohm coax, 50ohm antenna.  Then 
everyone's happy.  In line coax has little affect on the signal other 
than attenuation when it's hooked up correctly.


Jason

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
That doesn't apply to inline pieces does it?  Only ones that don't 
terminate to anything


Otherwise every pigtail would be a disaster in the making

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter



Brian,

   This is still a seriously bad idea.  Sorry.  Unterminated pieces 
of coax attached to the system will behave as filters.  For instance, 
a piece of coax that is 1/4 wavelength long acts as a DEAD SHORT if 
the end of it is open.  If the end of the coax is shorted then it 
acts as an infinite resistance (see THE ARRL HANDBOOK on transmission 
line and filter theory). If you just throw arbitrary length pieces of 
coax into the system, you'll be adding all kinds of band pass/band 
reject filters into your system.  If the pieces are just the right 
length, it'll work.  At the very least you'll loose a few decibels 
due to the additional capacitance in the spare coax.


Jason

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Either I am a bad explainer or there are some bad readers here.

Lets start again.  Lately I have had issues because WiFi sucks (wish 
I could afford proprietary)  moving on.I have been using 
different radio cards and have ended up having to switch the 
pigtails from u.fl to mmcx or visa versa.  It sucks to cut away 
mastic and reseal these n female connectors on the bottom of my 
enclosure.  I would like to leave two pigtails attached to my lmr400 
n male antenna cable.  Then inside the enclosure I could grab 
whatever pigtail I want to use with the next greatest card that I 
hope will fix everything.


Probably what I should find is a u.fl to mmcx adapter and a mmcx to 
u.fl adapter so I can adapt.  Expanding from that, is there any such 
WISP emergency include all cable adapter kit that exists?


Brian

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I've been told to never do this.  The output of the transmitting 
radio will totally deafen the receiving one.  It might work for 
just a few customers at a time (or with something that would sinc 
like the Moto products) but I think that much usage on the network 
would kill it pretty fast.


I've used splitters for two antennas per radio, that seems to work ok.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter


I want to go from two cards to one antenna (wouldn't both be on at 
same time)..  I guess I want a y, to go from 2 n male to 1 n female.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-06 Thread George Rogato
The real issue here is that Brian needs to figure out why he has to 
change radio cards and pigtails frequently.


Fix that issue and skip the splitter would be my advice.

George

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Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-06 Thread Blair Davis

We have had some nasty lightening up here the last few weeks

I've had several deafened radio cards from it...

But, I've been using the n-male pigtails and n-female-2-n-female 
bulkheads for years  Much easier.


George Rogato wrote:

The real issue here is that Brian needs to figure out why he has to 
change radio cards and pigtails frequently.


Fix that issue and skip the splitter would be my advice.

George




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Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-05 Thread Blair Davis

Not a good idea...

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I want to go from two cards to one antenna (wouldn't both be on at 
same time)..  I guess I want a y, to go from 2 n male to 1 n female.


Brian



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Re: [WISPA] lmr 400 splitter

2006-10-05 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

Sent this message 2 hrs ago but don't see it.

I've been going back and forth between u.fl and mmcx lately.  It's be 
nice to not have to re weatherproof them all the time.  I'd like to 
leave both pigtails hooked up but only one actually attached to a card.


Brian

Blair Davis wrote:


Not a good idea...

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I want to go from two cards to one antenna (wouldn't both be on at 
same time)..  I guess I want a y, to go from 2 n male to 1 n female.


Brian





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