Thierry Koblentz wrote:
On Behalf Of Mike at Green-Beast.com
As a side note, I style these BRs with display:none.
I'm curious, what effect does that have on the styled page?Do you do
something like...
label {
display : block;
}
br {
display : none;
}
Hi Mike,
I
Perhaps Chris
But standards people are interested in following standards, not what
others may do. We are meant to be leaders, not followers. I also know
some people who still want tabled layouts running in Mambo. That
doesn't mean their options are either standards compliant nor sensible.
I'll be back on 12/2/2008.
For any urgent query please contact Jimmy Liu or Kishor Mistry.
Regards
Teru Yanagihashi
DID-IT
88287
8902287 (DDI)
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Chris Knowles wrote:
CK yes, but my point was that a lot of js libraries base drag and drop
CK re-ordering of elements around list elements and not other elements. And
CK I have noticed a lot of form building services use lists to markup forms
CK because they require drag and drop re-ordering of
Hi Rachel,
I'd be very interested in reading your article when it's ready
For better or worse, it's published:
http://green-beast.com/blog/?p=254
Cheers.
Mike
***
List Guidelines:
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accommodating :)
Cheers.
Mike
- Original Message -
From: Thomas Thomassen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Very interesting article. I'm reevaluating my options about lists on
forms.
But I'm not sure I
the label and the input
ends up in the same line without any CSS styling.
- Original Message -
From: Mike at Green-Beast.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Hi Rachel,
I'd be very interested in reading
On Behalf Of Mike at Green-Beast.com
I don't think the break use has any bearing on the accessibility of the
form's elements so that doesn't seem to have bearing on my decision. No
negatives that I'm aware of.
Semantically speaking, I think the introduction of a break is akin to
adding
a
-- origineel bericht --
Onderwerp: RE: [WSG] Styling forms
Van:Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Datum: 08-02-2008 19:42
On Behalf Of Mike at Green-Beast.com
I don't think the break use has any bearing on the accessibility of the
form's elements so that doesn't seem
:)
Cheers.
Mike
- Original Message -
From: Thomas Thomassen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Very interesting article. I'm reevaluating my options about lists on
forms.
But I'm not sure I feel
Joe Ortenzi wrote:
Perhaps Chris
But standards people are interested in following standards, not what
others may do. We are meant to be leaders, not followers. I also know
some people who still want tabled layouts running in Mambo. That doesn't
mean their options are either standards
]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 2:32 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Styling forms
On Behalf Of Mike at Green-Beast.com
I don't think the break use has any bearing on the accessibility of the
form's elements so that doesn't seem to have bearing on my decision. No
negatives
On Behalf Of Mike at Green-Beast.com
As a side note, I style these BRs with display:none.
I'm curious, what effect does that have on the styled page?Do you do
something like...
label {
display : block;
}
br {
display : none;
}
Hi Mike,
I don't use display:block, most of
I don't use display:block, most of the time I float everything and use
the label to clear.
Depending on the width of the labels I may use text-align:right; to move
the text in the label toward the text box.
I also set the widths in EMs, to avoid the text to wrap if it grows. With
the fieldset
On Feb 6, 2008 6:03 AM, sri kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
FYI, your approach is perfect to my knowledge, but the INPUT element
should not wrapped by any LABEL element. It's not compliant/accessible...
For somebody labelling themselves Webstandard guy, your knowledge is
scarily off-base.
On Behalf Of Thomas Thomassen
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 10:29 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
While I see your point, what I find to be troublesome is that Label and
Input are inline elements. While it's easy to wrap the Inputs in Labels
and
make
fwiw, I think BRs are the perfect fit.
I agree. :)
Mike
- Original Message -
From: Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Styling forms
On Behalf Of Thomas Thomassen
Sent: Thursday, February
On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 10:29 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
TK fwiw, I think BRs are the perfect fit.
BRs? Are BRs semantically correct? I believe they aren't.
--
Regards,
Alexey Novikov
http://studiomade.ru
@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Fieldsets and Labels is present in HTML4 as well. Don't see anything new
about that. Still need some extra elements to organise them. Such as lists.
- Original Message -
From: Joe Ortenzi
: [WSG] Styling forms
Has anyone looked up the HTML 5 pages on form elements?
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-diff/
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#forms
It's all fieldsets and labels... which makes more semantic sense than
paragraphs, lists, and dd/dl
JOe
On Feb 6 2008, at 04:06
-
From: Joe Ortenzi
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Has anyone looked up the HTML 5 pages on form elements?
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-diff/
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#forms
It's all fieldsets and labels... which makes
Новиков wrote:
On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 10:29 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
TK fwiw, I think BRs are the perfect fit.
BRs? Are BRs semantically correct? I believe they aren't.
--
Regards,
Alexey Novikov
http://studiomade.ru
PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Still need some extra elements to organise them.
Such as lists.
I don't know why that would be. Proper use of form elements is the only
organizational support needed. In my opinion, use of any other non-form
elements on form's isn't necessary
On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 10:29 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
TK fwiw, I think BRs are the perfect fit.
BRs? Are BRs semantically correct? I believe they aren't.
9.3.2 Controlling line breaks [1]
A line break
@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
hm... this thread has given me a thinker.
How does screenreaders treat using just labelinput//label?
form
fieldset
labelFoo: input id=foo//label
labelBar: input id=bar//label
/fieldset
/form
Michael Horowitz wrote:
I've been looking at styling forms and I'm seeing some people mark them
up as ordered lists and other using paragraphs. What are the arguments
for the different markup types.
from what I can see the reason lists have come into use in forms has a
lot to do with
,
or will there be a break between the elements?
- Original Message -
From: Joe Ortenzi
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Well done Alexey!
Are we not confusing semantics with presentational here?
if it is OK
I got a better theory on why lists are used for forms...
people have fallen for lists and believe that they are the bees knees for every
(x)html problem they encounter.
Chris Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/02/2008 6:53:08 am
Michael Horowitz wrote:
I've been looking at styling forms and I'm
Chris Knowles wrote:
CK from what I can see the reason lists have come into use in forms has a
CK lot to do with javascript libraries that have re-ordering of elements by
CK drag and drop that tend to work mainly on lists. Therefore lists are
CK useful to wrap form elements if you are creating
: Friday, 8 February 2008 11:24 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Hello Thomas,
How does screenreaders treat using just
labelinput//label?
I'm writing an article on just that thing now. Jaws is okay with it, but
Windows Eyes chokes on it. That in itself may
February 2008 11:24 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Hello Thomas,
How does screenreaders treat using just
labelinput//label?
I'm writing an article on just that thing now. Jaws is okay with it, but
Windows Eyes chokes on it. That in itself may not be too
I would have thought so. Isn't that what the id attribute is used
for? Something for JavaScript to reference?
On Feb 7 2008, at 22:17, Алексей Новиков wrote:
Chris Knowles wrote:
CK from what I can see the reason lists have come into use in
forms has a
CK lot to do with javascript
Joe Ortenzi wrote:
I would have thought so. Isn't that what the id attribute is used for?
Something for JavaScript to reference?
Chris Knowles wrote:
CK from what I can see the reason lists have come into use in forms has a
CK lot to do with javascript libraries that have re-ordering of
does not wrap around the INPUT, the FOR attribute is
required for useragent to know the elements are related.
- Original Message - From: John Faulds
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Hi Germ17,I
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Styling forms
I've been looking at styling forms and I'm seeing some people mark
them up
as ordered lists and other using paragraphs. What are the
arguments for the
different markup types.
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http
I've been looking at styling forms and I'm seeing some people mark them
up as ordered lists and other using paragraphs. What are the arguments
for the different markup types.
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
good question!!
I personally used to use lists then i realised that paragraphs actually use
these code (both html and css) and is easier to stylise!
I wrote some of my thoughts hear a week or so ago!
http://germworks.net/blog/2008/01/23/lists-p-whats-best-for-forms/
On Feb 6, 2008 12:38 PM,
Forms should be marked up as you would anything else; If you are placing a
paragraph in the form you should use a p. If you are placing a list inside
the form you should use a ul/ol, if you are placing headings inside the
form you should use h1-h6 etc. etc.
The inputs should be arranged using
It kind of depends on the form itself. Definition lists and unordered
lists also are used a lot.
Usually, I would say unordered or definition lists are the most
appropriate. If the questions were numbered, I could see using ordered
lists. Paragraphs are kind of the lazy way. You can also use
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Styling forms
I've been looking at styling forms and I'm seeing some people mark them up
as ordered lists and other using paragraphs. What are the arguments for the
different markup types.
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http
.
Thanks,
Srikumar
McAfee Inc | Project Lead | Webstandard Guy
Mobile: +91 98800 31872
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 12:52:58 +0900
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
good question!!
I personally used to use lists then i realised that paragraphs
@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
It kind of depends on the form itself. Definition lists and unordered
lists also are used a lot.
Usually, I would say unordered or definition lists are the most
appropriate. If the questions were
-
From: John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Hi Germ17,I have seen your example presented in GERMWORKS.NETFYI, your
approach is perfect to my knowledge, but the INPUT element should not
wrapped
I haven't got access to IE/PC right now, but removing the floats and
using display:inline worked for me in FF and Safari.
change these two rules:
#navbar ul {
list-style-type: none;
display:inline;
}
#navbar form {
display:inline;
margin-left: 6px;
}
On 21 Jun
I'm trying to get a search form to appear neatly within a horizontal
navigation bar. Here's my test page so far ==
http://www.thesamaras.com/horiz/horiz_form.htm
At the moment, the only way I can get this to work is to float the
form within the containing div. I've noticed that IE and others seem
have to do any extra work.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 10:14 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling Forms
Good evening mates,
First
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lachlan Hardy
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling Forms
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, it seems that styling the actual form elements
I think that styling forms is very nice addon to any site.
See http://www.pixy.cz/pixylophone/obrazky/styled-forms.gif -- styling
the form elements can make them look worse outside the major browsers.
--
Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com
I think that styling forms is very nice addon to any site.
And one thing more - you can't rely on it, you won't now how it is
rendered on various platforms, nevertheless it might look weird, it
might also be unusable etc. ...
If you style 'em, you have to be careful.
--
Jan Brasna aka JohnyB ::
I'm currently suggesting all input elements have a class to reflect the type.
So they can be controlled via CSS a little easier.
e.g.
input type=radio class=radio
input type=checkbox class=checkbox
input type=submit class=submit
input type=text class=radio
etc.
Are there any associated
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony
TimberlakeSent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 8:59 AMTo:
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Styling
Forms
I think that styling forms is very nice addon to any site. Who
wants to look
G'day folks
Firstly, apologies to Chris for not noticing that he'd already referred
Mario to Cameron's article
Secondly, Drew's points:
It may make styling easier but incorporating form controls in labels
has a
different meaning than associating a label and a form control. For one
thing, it
Good evening mates,
First, thanks to all for the excellent advice and direction!
I was successful in creating a table less form, albeit simple, that
renders perfectly in IE6 (hard to believe), and damn good in FF1 and
Opera7.4.
If interested, the page is located at the following URL:
Good evening all,
I know there's two schools of thought regarding forms where one uses a
table and the other a definition list to style and layout the data fields.
I have a simple form on a client's Contact Us page, and I wondered if
there's a consensus as to which method is more semantically
I'd be pointing you towards styling fieldset and label elements
rather than using dl or table
Good examples
http://www.themaninblue.com/experiment/InForm/
Cheers
Chris
On Tue, 2005-04-05 at 13:40, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Good evening all,
I know there's two schools of thought regarding
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Good evening all,
I know there's two schools of thought regarding forms where one uses a
table and the other a definition list to style and layout the data fields.
I have a simple form on a client's Contact Us page, and I wondered if
there's a consensus as to which method
G'day
I know there's two schools of thought regarding forms where one uses a
table and the other a definition list to style and layout the data fields.
I have a simple form on a client's Contact Us page, and I wondered if
there's a consensus as to which method is more semantically correct?
Not
PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Darren Wood
Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling Forms
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Good evening all,
I know there's two schools of thought regarding forms where one uses a
table and the other a definition list to style
enter your comments here/textarea
/fieldset
fieldset
input type=submit id=submit name=submit value=submit /
/fieldset
/form
Richard :o)
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:40 PM
Subject: [WSG] Styling Forms
Well, it seems that styling the actual form elements is the way to go, and
certainly appears to be ideal for simple forms.
Thank you Chris, Bert and Darren for the quick response, advice and links!
Yours respectfully,
Mario
G'day
I know there's two schools of thought regarding forms where
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