date:20091029

RE: [WSG] skip links

2009-10-29 Thread Julie Romanowski

Screen magnification users also benefit from "skip" links. Making these
links visible help more than just screen reader and keyboard users.

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Raul Ferrer
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 8:47 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

I've been always under the impression that sighted users surfing with a
keyboard, have it easier to realize if there's a Skip Navigation link
(since nothing gets on focus) and it's easier for them to navigate with
tab key, so it's not such a burden.

I mean, suffering the navigation on a screen reader on every page is
painful, but a sighted user can work himself better on the page with a
keyboard.

That's why I always put a div with the "skip to" links on top of the
document and then move them to the left off the site. Keyboards find
them first (though they don't show) and screen readers see them.

It's better not to make Skip to navigation visible, since most users
won't understand what's that for, and on many cases, they won't even
realize what's happening, since the page won't change if you click on
it.

Anyway, my 2c ;)

Cheers

Raul

www.raulferrer.com  

webdesign & development

De: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] En
nombre de Steve Green
Enviado el: jueves, 29 de octubre de 2009 2:17
Para: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Asunto: RE: [WSG] skip links

Understood. I was addressing the common misconception that skip links
are only for screen reader users. Bob may have had a reason for phrasing
the question the way he did, but it probably should have been phrased
differently.

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: 29 October 2009 00:19
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

Thanks for that Steve - but I was trying answer the question:

"Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers "

regards

Mark

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:01 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for
sighted people who use keyboard navigation.

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: 28 October 2009 23:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

spot the typo 

regards

Mark

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

Steve

One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then

embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with

'skip navigation'

regards

Mark

Mark Huppert
Library Systems and Web Coordinator
Division of Information
R.G. Menzies Building (#2)
The Australian National University
ACTON ACT 0200

T: +61 02 6125 2752
F: +61 02 6125 4063
W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/

CRICOS Provider #00120C

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are
accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so
they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation.

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of designer
Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] skip links

Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen
readers?  It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but
(of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by
real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach.

I'd be really grateful . . .

Thanks,

Bob

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Re: [WSG] skip links

2009-10-29 Thread designer

Hi Julie
- Original Message - 
From: Julie Romanowski

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

Screen magnification users also benefit from "skip" links. Making these 
links visible help more than just screen reader and keyboard users.

- - - - - - - -

What I've settled for is as follows:

Skip to Main Content

Presumably, the accesskey caters for those folk also?

??

Bob 

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Re: [WSG] skip links

2009-10-29 Thread James O'Neill

I'm a bit late but here are some good 'skip link' links:

 http://joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/Chapter08.html
 http://www.webaim.org/techniques/skipnav/
 http://juicystudio.com/article/skip-links.php


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Re: [WSG] skip links

2009-10-29 Thread David Dorward


On 29 Oct 2009, at 11:48, designer wrote:
Screen magnification users also benefit from "skip" links. Making  
these links visible help more than just screen reader and keyboard  
users.




Skip to Main Content


Presumably, the accesskey caters for those folk also?



Assuming they know the link is there. If it is styled to as to be  
invisible or off-screen, then it hurts more than it helps.



--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk



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[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest

2009-10-29 Thread Khalil, Chris

Hi - I'll be on leave and will return to the office Monday 2nd November.

 

In that time Vikki Hsieh can help you with any matters relating to USiT.

 

Cheers

 

Chris Khalil,

Director of User Experience, USiT

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Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest

2009-10-29 Thread David Hucklesby

ピエールランリ・ラヴィン wrote:

Actually is not enough. Accesskey is a good way about the accessibility,
but it's not completed.
I didn't check the latest WCAG and the latest version of screen readers
but:
* Keyboards shortcuts depend from the UA (the specifications didn't
define it)

* Users may define preferences keys
* Most of the screen readers set the priorities to the website, so if
you use a key not defined by the user but already defined by the
browsers (like 'd'), you can private them from native functionalities
* A few screen readers like IBM Home Page Reader set the priorities to
the user so some accesskeys may be ignored in case of conflicts

* Exotic keys like \ ] ( most unused ) may not work.

So primary:
* Set in the head of html a bunch of primary links as link tag (rel="start" href="http://www.mysite.com"; title="Home Page" />rel="help" ...)
* At least a "skip to content" link on TOP of your page (means top of
the HTML page, not after iframe or ads or anything, just after the body.
I don't remember the book (maybe Mr Zeldmann), citing
http://www.jimthatcher.com/ (good example with focus only).
* an additional block of skipping links at the top of the page too, like
those defined by BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk, great example too of skip nav
* Then a block of visible links like help, select a skin typically ideal
to introduce stuffs like style switcher, etc..

* Use correctly the titles h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6
* Use tabindex. you can play with tags like div - a, setting a tabindex
and a title attribute

* And of course write the 'help page' about how using your site

Accessibility depends from the country too, but I think in Europe most
the countries are using the following accesskeys:
Key 0: list of accesskeys , may be defined in the accessibility / help
page.

Key 1: home page (key not working with IBM Home Page Reader)
Key 2: news
Key 3: sitemap
Key 4: form, for example search form
Key 5: FAQ, glossary, etc...
Key 6: help about using the website
Key 7: email contact
Key 8: copyrights, license, ...
Key 9: guestbook, feedback

So accesskeys are great but only one of the way to enhance the
accessibility.
Great french article:
http://openweb.eu.org/articles/accesskey_essai_non_transforme.

One of the famous trick in css then is to use .off-left {
position:absolute; left:-9px; } for example instead of display:none,
to set content outside of the screens but keep it readable by screen
readers.

~~~

A very informative post. Thank you.

FWIW If a "skip to main content" is visible, I tend to use it to bring
the main article to the top of the window. Please make the link
available to sighted users as well...

Cordially,
David
--

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Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (Re: [WSG] skip links)

2009-10-29 Thread ピエールランリ・ラヴィン

David Hucklesby さんは書きました:

ピエールランリ・ラヴィン wrote:

Actually is not enough. Accesskey is a good way about the
accessibility, but it's not completed.
I didn't check the latest WCAG and the latest version of screen
readers but:
* Keyboards shortcuts depend from the UA (the specifications didn't
define it)

* Users may define preferences keys
* Most of the screen readers set the priorities to the website, so if
you use a key not defined by the user but already defined by the
browsers (like 'd'), you can private them from native functionalities
* A few screen readers like IBM Home Page Reader set the priorities
to the user so some accesskeys may be ignored in case of conflicts

* Exotic keys like \ ] ( most unused ) may not work.

So primary:
* Set in the head of html a bunch of primary links as link tag (rel="start" href="http://www.mysite.com"; title="Home Page" />rel="help" ...)
* At least a "skip to content" link on TOP of your page (means top of
the HTML page, not after iframe or ads or anything, just after the body.
I don't remember the book (maybe Mr Zeldmann), citing
http://www.jimthatcher.com/ (good example with focus only).
* an additional block of skipping links at the top of the page too,
like those defined by BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk, great example too
of skip nav
* Then a block of visible links like help, select a skin typically
ideal to introduce stuffs like style switcher, etc..

* Use correctly the titles h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6
* Use tabindex. you can play with tags like div - a, setting a
tabindex and a title attribute

* And of course write the 'help page' about how using your site

Accessibility depends from the country too, but I think in Europe
most the countries are using the following accesskeys:
Key 0: list of accesskeys , may be defined in the accessibility /
help page.

So accesskeys are great but only one of the way to enhance the
accessibility.
Great french article:
http://openweb.eu.org/articles/accesskey_essai_non_transforme.

One of the famous trick in css then is to use .off-left {
position:absolute; left:-9px; } for example instead of
display:none, to set content outside of the screens but keep it
readable by screen readers.

~~~

A very informative post. Thank you.

FWIW If a "skip to main content" is visible, I tend to use it to bring
the main article to the top of the window. Please make the link
available to sighted users as well...

Cordially,
David
--

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Thanks :-)
It makes sense to set it visible too but it's not easy.
Even now, unfortunately, most of the websites doing this are people who
care about great accessibility and/or usability.
You will deal with any people (clients - marketing - design) saying for
example:
"You don't understand me, the users of my website are teenagers who want
to subscribe for a plan and get a mobile",
Famous fact that 15-25 years old people don't really understand
interface, are all in good health, and 100% capabilities. (ironical)
What seems "Killing the user experience" for advanced users may not be
for the average people.
So I meant in the worst case, better to have hidden skip links that
nothing ;-) (From my point of view)

For your personal use, if you don't care about the design, there are
some fancy plugins like tidy read
http://www.tidyread.com/ which extracts the main article as text so you
won't need or complain about skip links ;-)

Available for Firefox and IE.

What is funny about link in the html head (
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#h-12.3), i never found
how to use it natively with browsers. Can anyone provide informations
about that please ?

Regards

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[WSG] [OT] Google search/index/webmaster help

2009-10-29 Thread Andrew Harris

Yes, I know it's off topic, but I really need a hand with a mystifying
problem. I've tried the google forums, but have received no replies.
If there are any listers who understand the free Google Custom Search
Engine, webmaster tools, sitemaps and indexing problems, then I'd
really appreciate you contacting me directly in regards to some
problems I'm having.

Just to give an idea of my quandary...
http://maps.unimelb.edu.au/
http://maps.unimelb.edu.au/sitemap.xml (100+ URLs submitted 5 months ago)
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:maps.unimelb.edu.au (34 results = pathetic!)
http://go.unimelb.edu.au/6t6 (1 result = totally pathetic!)

Hopefully, it's nothing completely bleeding obvious that will
humiliate me in front of my peers ;-)

-- 
Andrew Harris
and...@woowoowoo.com
http://www.woowoowoo.com

~~~ <*>< ~~~


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Re: [WSG] [OT] Google search/index/webmaster help

2009-10-29 Thread Andrew Harris

Craig,
OK - that's a really interesting comment.

I had, as far as I knew, used the right formatting, the sitemap validates as
XML and Google's webmaster tools accepted it as a valid feed (after a few
tweaks!)

I followed this document, which I understand is the definitive source.
http://www.sitemaps.org/protocol.php
and my sitemap looks pretty much like that - apart from a couple of
whitespace discrepancies.

The fact that it worked for some of the URLs makes me think it's not a
problem with the sitemap, but it's all interesting stuff.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Craig Jones
wrote:

>  Hi Andrew,
> This is my firts time trying to help...
> It doesn't appear that your sitemap is written in xml
> The sitemap should look like this
> http://www.sitemaps.org/schemas/sitemap/0.9
>
> http://www.sitemaps.org/schemas/sitemap/0.9/sitemap.xsd";>
> 
> www.unimelb.edu.au/campuses/maps.html
> 
> 
> www.unimelb.edu.au/campuses/maps2.html
> 
> 
> then submit you new sitemap in google webmaster tools
> Goodluck
> Craig
>
>
> Andrew Harris wrote:
>
> Yes, I know it's off topic, but I really need a hand with a mystifying
> problem. I've tried the google forums, but have received no replies.
> If there are any listers who understand the free Google Custom Search
> Engine, webmaster tools, sitemaps and indexing problems, then I'd
> really appreciate you contacting me directly in regards to some
> problems I'm having.
>
> Just to give an idea of my 
> quandary...http://maps.unimelb.edu.au/http://maps.unimelb.edu.au/sitemap.xml 
> (100+ URLs submitted 5 months 
> ago)http://www.google.com/search?q=site:maps.unimelb.edu.au (34 results = 
> pathetic!)http://go.unimelb.edu.au/6t6 (1 result = totally pathetic!)
>
> Hopefully, it's nothing completely bleeding obvious that will
> humiliate me in front of my peers ;-)
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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-- 
Andrew Harris
and...@woowoowoo.com
http://www.woowoowoo.com

~~~ <*>< ~~~


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Re: [WSG] [OT] Google search/index/webmaster help

2009-10-29 Thread Andrew Harris

Bother! that last reply was supposed to be off list!
Oh well, the discussion had got around to web standards by that point,
so it's fair game.

...and it's a friday afternoon, cut me some slack!!

Thanks to all those who have replied off list. By way of reporting
back to the list, I'll say...

1) Sitemaps are not the magic fix I thought they were.
2) Inbound links and organic indexing are vital.
3) My map pages are pretty short on text - google likes text.

One thing that no-one picked up on was that I still haven't inserted
some common metadata tags - I know they say google doesn't look at the
metadata tags, but it makes me wonder.

Funny how asking your peers to check your work suddenly makes you
aware of basic things you'd missed...
 yes, my pages weren't valid - but they are now!!!  ;-p

--
Andrew Harris
and...@woowoowoo.com
http://www.woowoowoo.com

~~~ <*>< ~~~


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RE: [WSG] skip links

Re: [WSG] skip links

Re: [WSG] skip links

Re: [WSG] skip links

[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest

Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest

Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (Re: [WSG] skip links)

[WSG] [OT] Google search/index/webmaster help

Re: [WSG] [OT] Google search/index/webmaster help

Re: [WSG] [OT] Google search/index/webmaster help

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