RE: [WSG] liquid 2-3 column layout
Take a look at http://www.sitepoint.com/article/how-to-hire-a-web-designer All of the inside pages have the hide nav style design I think your talking about. good designers copy, great designers steal M -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Focas, Grant Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2005 2:46 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] liquid 2-3 column layout Hi, I'd like to make a site with the option of 2 or 3 columns. The Nav column (left)and content column (centre) would always be present. The news column on the right would be optional. ___ || | | || | | | Nav |Content | News | || | | || | | ---| Does anyone on the list know of a way to make the Content fill the whole space of content and nav when nav is not present? Grant Focas ** This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain privileged information or confidential information or both. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it and notify the sender. ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] liquid 2-3 column layout
martin I believe you mean To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism to steal from many is research :-) In practical terms this means don't just copy sitepoints (or anyone else's) code directly because this is neither ethical or legal and you wont learn how to do it properly Instead find other sites that achieve the same effect, compare and contrast, and cobble together the ideal solution for your needs -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Need a Sydney based web standards contractor? You need my services. Recent projects for Glassonion, Freshweb, Cogentis, Ceneka ... http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://bookcrossing.com/referral/neerav Martin Baylis wrote: Take a look at http://www.sitepoint.com/article/how-to-hire-a-web-designer All of the inside pages have the hide nav style design I think your talking about. good designers copy, great designers steal M -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Focas, Grant Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2005 2:46 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] liquid 2-3 column layout Hi, I'd like to make a site with the option of 2 or 3 columns. The Nav column (left)and content column (centre) would always be present. The news column on the right would be optional. ___ || | | || | | | Nav |Content | News | || | | || | | ---| Does anyone on the list know of a way to make the Content fill the whole space of content and nav when nav is not present? Grant Focas ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] liquid 2-3 column layout
Hi Grant, you wrote: Hi, I'd like to make a site with the option of 2 or 3 columns. The Nav column (left)and content column (centre) would always be present. The news column on the right would be optional. ___ || || || || | Nav |Content | News | || || || || ---| Does anyone on the list know of a way to make the Content fill the whole space of content and nav when nav is not present? Skidoo Too is exactly what you want, the right column can be flipped out with an extra bit of stylesheet, demos at the URL. http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/skidoo_too/ We've used it many times, good code and no strings :-) Kym K ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Jumping text in FF and Netscape
For font sizing try this:
body {
font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size:1em;
}
p { font-size: 0.7em;}
If you stick with arial this will give you a font size of around 12px
which can be resized. Try different sizes with different decimal
digits (0.725 etc..) to find the size you're comfortable with
depending on the font you're using.
Hope this helps.
Marwan
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Re: [WSG] liquid 2-3 column layout
On 4 May 2005, at 4:59 PM, Neerav wrote: I believe you mean To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism to steal from many is research :-) In practical terms this means don't just copy sitepoints (or anyone else's) code directly because this is neither ethical or legal and you wont learn how to do it properly Instead find other sites that achieve the same effect, compare and contrast, and cobble together the ideal solution for your needs The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. ~ Albert Einstein N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] DOM tutorials/books?
On 5/3/05, Zulema [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are there any good books or tutorials that I can read/follow to learn all about the DOM? If you're looking for a book my favourite is Flanagan's JavaScript: The Definitive Guide (O'Reilly) James ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] liquid 2-3 column layout
On 4 May 2005, at 4:59 PM, Neerav wrote: I believe you mean To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism to steal from many is research :-) In practical terms this means don't just copy sitepoints (or anyone else's) code directly because this is neither ethical or legal and you wont learn how to do it properly You could always go to where sitepoint got their code from http://cross-browser.com/x/examples/x_3col_fm.html and use the GNU Lesser General Public License code. That would be both legal and ethical (as long as you abide by the terms). On 5/4/05, Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. ~ Albert Einstein
[WSG] Standards-compliant reader poll software
Hi - I'm looking for a good (i.e. standards-compliant) piece of software for generating/administering reader polls. I was wondering whether anyone out there has had any particularly good or bad experiences that they would be prepared to share, so I know where to look and where to avoid! Specifically, I'm looking for a solution that doesnt create horrendous javascript-generated html! (Poll monkey, anyone?) ;) Thanks, Chris -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dr Christopher Townson Web Design Department Nature Publishing Group The Macmillan Building 4 Crinan Street London N1 9XW Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- DISCLAIMER: This e-mail is confidential and should not be used by anyone who is not the original intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or any other storage mechanism. Neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its agents accept liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not expressly made on behalf of Macmillan Publishers Limited or one of its agents. Please note that neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its agents accept any responsibility for viruses that may be contained in this e-mail or its attachments and it is your responsibility to scan the e-mail and attachments (if any). No contracts may be concluded on behalf of Macmillan Publishers Limited or its agents by means of e-mail communication. Macmillan Publishers Limited Registered in England and Wales with registered number 785998 Registered Office Brunel Road, Houndmills, Basingstoke RG21 6XS ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning
I've been working on a three column layout that has been just peachy, other than an IE bug that paints over the content of selected sub sections on hover or when clicking a link: http://tdrake.net/generic-test.html I've tried numerous fixes and even thought I had it solved by replacing hex colors with rgb colors on the hover of links... See how creative I've been... It's still randomly trying to kill me. I'm thinking it is time to try a completely different approach to the three-column layout. Hopefully it will avoid the bizarre combination of floats, positioning, margins, whatever that I have on this page and solve this issue once and for all. I've looked at about 3 dozen web sites this morning discussing the best three column layout and it is getting really confusing. So many of them are variations of each other and there are few dates on the pages to know what is new and better. I like Big John's stuff, but I don't know if they are current. Liquid bleach looks fab, but it might be overkill for this. Please help. What is a bullet-proof three-column layout that gives me a header, footer, and the center column is liquid. I don't care about the order of the divs. It needs to be fairly simple but most importantly free of bugs. This layout needs to be a foundation for years of development. I'd hate to realize 9 months from now that I need to add another div wrapper or something like that. Thanks Ted http://www.tdrake.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning
Drake, Ted C. wrote: I've looked at about 3 dozen web sites this morning discussing the best three column layout and it is getting really confusing. So many of them are variations of each other and there are few dates on the pages to know what is new and better. Hi Ted, I don't know if this one [1] is better, but it is fairly new... In the footer, there is a list of browsers in which I've tested the page And there is a bit more complex design page too [2] [1] http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/challenge/3cols/default.asp [2] http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/challenge/ HTH, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Headings within ul Navigation
Title: Headings within ul Navigation Hey all, Does anyone know whether it's correct to use headings in your navigation? e.g. ul lih2Item/h2/li lih2Item/h2/li lih2Item/h2/li lih2Item/h2 ul lih3Sub Item/h3/li lih3Sub Item/h3/li lih3Sub Item/h3/li /ul /li lih2Item/h2/li lih2Item/h2/li /ul Is the above right or wrong? I'm doing this at the moment, thinking it's helping give semantic meaning to the page, but is it right? Thanks in advance, Jamie Mason
Re: [WSG] liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning
On Wed, 04 May 2005 11:15:01 -0400, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please help. What is a bullet-proof three-column layout I wish I knew, too. that gives me a header, footer, and the center column is liquid. I don't care about the order of the divs. Just in case you change your mind about source order: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/negativemargins/ (with min/max width) Ted Best, ~david -- http://www.dlaakso.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Headings within ul Navigation
Why do you want all those header tags in there- for display purposes? I don't think it's invalid - I just don't see the purpose yet It's probably better to just class the ul or li, such as ul class=heading1, and then style all those headings for the correct appearance. Matthom matthom.com/ On 5/4/05, Jamie Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey all, Does anyone know whether it's correct to use headings in your navigation? e.g. ul lih2Item/h2/li lih2Item/h2/li lih2Item/h2/li lih2Item/h2 ul lih3Sub Item/h3/li lih3Sub Item/h3/li lih3Sub Item/h3/li /ul /li lih2Item/h2/li lih2Item/h2/li /ul Is the above right or wrong? I'm doing this at the moment, thinking it's helping give semantic meaning to the page, but is it right? Thanks in advance, Jamie Mason ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Headings within ul Navigation
On Wed, 04 May 2005 17:31:06 +0100, Jamie Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey all, Does anyone know whether it's correct to use headings in your navigation? Technically h is allowed in li, but semantically - I think it's not. IMHO headings should only be before actual content, so when you jump to any heading you're landing in the right place. With your code this doesn't work and things like document summary would either show all headings twice or show headings for content that is not on the page. Nested lists are enough to represent headings structure of the page. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Headings within ul Navigation
Matt Thommes wrote:
Why do you want all those header tags in there- for display purposes?
I don't think it's invalid - I just don't see the purpose yet
It's probably better to just class the ul or li, such as ul
class=heading1, and then style all those headings for the correct
appearance.
Matthom
matthom.com/
I would think that h1/h2/h3 are the wrong element to be used here.
The specs say that they're to be used as Headings:
A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it introduces
from
http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5
The key to me being the section it introduces. Personally, I don't
think that the UL/LI combinations need any more than what they have
As for the CSS, you can use descendent selectors to define the look
without adding classes...
ul li {
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 10pt;
}
ul ul li {
font-weight: normal;
font-style: italic;
font-size: 8pt;
}
-Erik
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[WSG] DL Time -- Headings within ul Navigation
If you want headers in your unordered list, use a definition list instead. The dt is your header and the dd's are your list elements. Check out the latest version of http://www.seriocomic.com for an interesting take on the dl as navigation with the expanding menu. I've already adapted the same technique for an expanding menu on our project. Ted On Wed, 04 May 2005 17:31:06 +0100, Jamie Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey all, Does anyone know whether it's correct to use headings in your navigation? Technically h is allowed in li, but semantically - I think it's not. IMHO headings should only be before actual content, so when you jump to any heading you're landing in the right place. With your code this doesn't work and things like document summary would either show all headings twice or show headings for content that is not on the page. Nested lists are enough to represent headings structure of the page. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] update-- liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning
Drake, Ted C. wrote:
I've got a question. You mention the IE
painting bug, which is very similar to the issue that I am having.
Hi Ted,
I think I mentionned this bug re: the ALA demo page.
Did you notice background painting problems with my pages?
However, I was able to solve the problem, knock on wood, by removing
the background color of the sub divs. I had a combination of
You still have weird things going on in the Problem Area.
Try this:
click in the lower right corner (below turn dark on click)
do not release the mouse's button
drag the pointer diagonaly toward the top left corner of that DIV
the whole container got painted over.
I believe it is the left negative margin that triggers this bug.
You can try the following to fix the different problems in IE:
#orgintranets {display:inline}
#orgintranets,#orgintranets a:hover {zoom: 1}
#menu a {margin-left:1px !important;border:1px solid blue}
#menu a:active {background:#e6e6c1}
.cleanlist a:active {background:#fff}
What has been your experience with the background painting bug?
Painful ;-)
HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning
David Laakso wrote: Just in case you change your mind about source order: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/negativemargins/ FYI: The ALA's article doesn't mention a few things: - links inside the right column appear not to be clickable in Opera 6, - there are background painting problems in IE, - there is one structural hack missing from the markup to help NN6 clear the left column. Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning
Thierry Koblentz wrote: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/negativemargins/ FYI: The ALA's article doesn't mention a few things: - links inside the right column appear not to be clickable in Opera 6, - there are background painting problems in IE, - there is one structural hack missing from the markup to help NN6 clear the left column. Just some quick questions -- and please don't misunderstand me here. :-) - How many of the old browser-versions should be allowed to influence our choice of design-methods? - Aren't there enough bugs and flaws in the new browser-versions? - Where's the quality control for browsers vs. standards -- is there any such thing? regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning
On Wed, 04 May 2005 22:47:45 +0200, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: - How many of the old browser-versions should be allowed to influence our choice of design-methods? - Aren't there enough bugs and flaws in the new browser-versions? - Where's the quality control for browsers vs. standards -- is there any such thing? I have generally assumed that the upgrade path for opera was pretty good (ie as new version come out people are installing them) This is because people had to make the independant step of installing the thing in the first place! But, as always, log file results drive the testing. Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet http://elysiansystems.com/ Search Engine Optimisation, Usability, Information Architecture, Web Design Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning
Lea de Groot wrote: But, as always, log file results drive the testing. Sounds pretty counter-productive to me, but I guess it makes economical sense in the short run -- and preserves status quo. Pity I never read log files. I'm too busy -- testing for new bugs. ;-) regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Cleaner two column float left?
tee wrote:
I am working on an order form that I set to two column float left
item 1 item 2
item 3 item 4
item 5 item 6
item 7 item 8
The floats will do it:
container {
width: (less than 3x the width of floatedItem);
}
floatedItem {
float: left;
width: 49%;
}
SHOULD work in everything!
cheers,
Stuart
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http://www.stuarthomfray.co.uk/
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Re: [WSG] Cleaner two column float left?
Tee wrote: Is it possible to make it this way and make IE happy at the same time? div class=twoCol labelitem 1/label labelitem 2/label labelitem 3/label labelitem 4/label labelitem 5/label. /div So that I don't need to put a spacer class in between every two items. there may be other issues affecting your problem, but on the surface it looks like you'd just set the width of the label to be a smidgen less than half the width of div class=twoCol. eg, make label 20em wide, and div class=twoCol 41em wide (i'd leave 1em buffer space just to allow for slight rendering differences) and then the labels would stack on top of each other in 2 columns. get me? hth, pete ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Cleaner two column float left?
Hi Peter and Staurt, Thanks a lot for the help. I got fixed. tee eg, make label 20em wide, and div class=twoCol 41em wide (i'd leave 1em buffer space just to allow for slight rendering differences) and then the labels would stack on top of each other in 2 columns. get me? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Form Validation error
tee wrote: Hi, I run a validation for my order form and it gave me error :end tag for element form which is not open /form But I do have open form tag: form method=post action=../cgi-bin/mcart/mof.cgi / get rid of the trailing / in the line above form method=post action=../cgi-bin/mcart/mof.cgi / should be: form method=post action=../cgi-bin/mcart/mof.cgi div id=formContentContent here/div /form My Doctype is xhtml transitional. Also, have anybody done the e-commerce site that is fully xhtml validated? I find it too much a challenge! Tee -- Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishing blog:: http://blog.maestropublishing.com email :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Create boilerplate beans! Check out the Mach-II Bean Creator - free download. http://blog.maestropublishing.com/mach-ii_beaner.htm ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Form Validation error
tee wrote: Hi, I run a validation for my order form and it gave me error :end tag for element form which is not open /form But I do have open form tag: form method=post action=../cgi-bin/mcart/mof.cgi / Remove that last slash at the end. You're self-closing the form tag, which is not what you want. Effectively what you've written there is shorthand for form method=post action=../cgi-bin/mcart/mof.cgi/form So, change that line to just form method=post action=../cgi-bin/mcart/mof.cgi -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Form Validation error
Thanks all, this is really embarrassing! Question I asked in the last 4 days were the result of my carelessness. I hope it doesn't give an impression that I am here for quick answer without doing my homework. Regards, tee Remove that last slash at the end. You're self-closing the form tag, which is not what you want. Effectively what you've written there is shorthand for form method=post action=../cgi-bin/mcart/mof.cgi/form So, change that line to just form method=post action=../cgi-bin/mcart/mof.cgi -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Form Validation error
Also, have anybody done the e-commerce site that is fully xhtml validated? Yep. Can I see the site Please? I find it too much a challenge! It's quite interesting to do so. Only if deadline is not due :( tee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Form Validation error
Can I see the site Please? The big one I meant is covered with NDA, so I can't tell you. There are two more under development, one available to outside - a really small one on http://www.bonsoir.cz/obchod/ (I'm working on it right now, so not all parts rewritten yet) Only if deadline is not due :( That's up to you to properly plan the whole workflow and production process and set the appropriate timeline. -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Just some quick questions -- and please don't misunderstand me here. :-) NP ;-) - How many of the old browser-versions should be allowed to influence our choice of design-methods? - Aren't there enough bugs and flaws in the new browser-versions? I see your point, but when it comes to choose between different solutions, I find info re: browser compatibility very valuable. Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Form Validation error
On 5/5/05, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, have anybody done the e-commerce site that is fully xhtml validated? This one is valid: http://www.australianopalsrus.com.au This one still has a few minor issues that are being fixed: http://www.elizabethsbookshop.com.au -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Re: Headings within ul Navigation
e.g. ul lih2Item/h2/li lih2Item/h2/li lih2Item/h2/li lih2Item/h2 ul lih3Sub Item/h3/li lih3Sub Item/h3/li lih3Sub Item/h3/li /ul /li lih2Item/h2/li lih2Item/h2/li /ul Is the above right or wrong? I'm doing this at the moment, thinking it's helping give semantic meaning to the page, but is it right? Jamie Mason Hi Jamie, its both incorrect use, and semantically wrong. Basically you are using h2 and h3 tags as the equivalent of bolding items, or... shudder... fonting items.. Its bloating the markup. All your headings are items in a heirarchical list. It is not a list of headings, its a list of items. The items should be styled appropriatly. Also, the items may well link to a heading. Thats ok :) Others may have a different point of view, but I would approach things differently Rgds Ned Collyer ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
