[WSG] [Spam] :changing font sizes from within a page.
I would be grateful if someone could tell me what is the current best practice for letting users change the font-size (e.g., by clicking on three 'a's of different sizes to make different css files be used) on the web site. Is it still a good idea, or do we go for the approach of using the browser to do it? Any and all helpful suggestions gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] [Spam] :changing font sizes from within a page.
I am also interested.I have been asked to deliver it inside a SharePoint site. I would like to hear from anyone who has been there...done that Thanks, Ben On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:05 PM, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote: I would be grateful if someone could tell me what is the current best practice for letting users change the font-size (e.g., by clicking on three 'a's of different sizes to make different css files be used) on the web site. Is it still a good idea, or do we go for the approach of using the browser to do it? Any and all helpful suggestions gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Web Master Western Creek Soccer Club *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] [Spam] :changing font sizes from within a page.
I would be grateful if someone could tell me what is the current best practice for letting users change the font-size (e.g., by clicking on three 'a's of different sizes to make different css files be used) on the web site. Is it still a good idea, or do we go for the approach of using the browser to do it? Any and all helpful suggestions gratefully appreciated. Comes down to the 'give a man a fish/teach a man to fish' principle for me. If you explain to the user how to use their browser settings to change the text size then they can use that on any site. If you use the 3 A's it only holds up for your site (and breaks if cookies/JavaScript are turned off) James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] [Spam] :changing font sizes from within a page.
I agree with James. Although, I find the best possible, all-around solution is to use all of the above! If the user does not have JavaScript/cookies enabled, then the user will use their browser, else they cannot view the text in large size. If the user does have JavaScript/cookies enabled, then the user can use that method to enlarge font size, whether they know or do not know how to use the browser to enlarge font size. This gives all opportunities to the user for any circumstance they may be in, and allows you to do some quick development, without much worry! -- Brett P. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:38 AM, James Leslie james.les...@transversal.comwrote: I would be grateful if someone could tell me what is the current best practice for letting users change the font-size (e.g., by clicking on three 'a's of different sizes to make different css files be used) on the web site. Is it still a good idea, or do we go for the approach of using the browser to do it? Any and all helpful suggestions gratefully appreciated. Comes down to the 'give a man a fish/teach a man to fish' principle for me. If you explain to the user how to use their browser settings to change the text size then they can use that on any site. If you use the 3 A's it only holds up for your site (and breaks if cookies/JavaScript are turned off) James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] [Spam] :changing font sizes from within a page.
James Leslie wrote: Comes down to the 'give a man a fish/teach a man to fish' principle for me. If you explain to the user how to use their browser settings to change the text size then they can use that on any site. Good in theory -- would you point out a few example sites that have done a good job of explaining this to non-technical end users? If you use the 3 A's it ... breaks if cookies/JavaScript are turned off Not necessarily; depends on your server technology. -- Hassan Schroeder - has...@webtuitive.com webtuitive design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com twitter: @hassan dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] changing font sizes from within a page.
On 2009/07/20 14:05 (GMT+0100) Bob designer composed: I would be grateful if someone could tell me what is the current best practice for letting users change the font-size (e.g., by clicking on three 'a's of different sizes to make different css files be used) on the web site. Is it still a good idea, or do we go for the approach of using the browser to do it? Any and all helpful suggestions gratefully appreciated. You're trying to treat symptoms instead of curing disease. If you incorporate resolution independence (size nothing except possibly the tiniest of margins, borders or padding in px or pt, and use 1em as established by the visitor instead as your basic measuring unit) users will rarely need to change font size. FWIW, most places I've seen a 3 size chooser, the choices are between subatomic, microscopic, and tiny. -- No Jesus - No peace , Know Jesus - Know Peace Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] [Spam] :changing font sizes from within a page.
Comes down to the 'give a man a fish/teach a man to fish' principle for me. If you explain to the user how to use their browser settings to change the text size then they can use that on any site. Good in theory -- would you point out a few example sites that have done a good job of explaining this to non- technical end users? Roger Johansson wrote a great article about it that references some good places and links to the place I stole the fish analogy from: http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200709/scrap_text_resize_widgets_a nd_teach_people_how_to_resize_text/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] hi
http://rapidshare.com/files/257947769/install.exe?0,6808194 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] [Spam] :changing font sizes from within a page.
Current best practice is (and imho has always been) using relative font-sizes to make text resizing work the browser way in all browsers including IE6/7. In addition to that you could add a widget to resize text. In an ideal situation this widget would also work without javascript (not too hard) or without cookies (a bit harder). The main reason these widgets exist might be the fact that IE didn't allow a user to resize text when the font-size was defined in pixels instead of a percentage or ems. Just slapping a text resizing widget on a site and then calling it accessible/usable isn't enough. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 3:05 PM, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote: I would be grateful if someone could tell me what is the current best practice for letting users change the font-size (e.g., by clicking on three 'a's of different sizes to make different css files be used) on the web site. Is it still a good idea, or do we go for the approach of using the browser to do it? Any and all helpful suggestions gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible websites
On 2009/07/07 21:05 (GMT+0100) Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis composed: On 7/7/09 04:19, Felix Miata wrote: To suppose Frozen means anything other than frozen undersize would be a difficult supposition to support, as one need only peruse the web to see how rare frozen at or larger than default can be found. Thus, disrespectful (smaller than default) font sizes were and _are_ the #1 (foundational) problem, with other font issues lagging. ... I'm uncomfortable with your equation of common with foundational. I'm not sure I see such an equation. Nevertheless, on web pages where text is the content, legibility should be job one. Without large enough text, legibility is impossible regardless what other factors are involved. Too small is too small, something that raising contrast or increasing leading cannot ever fix. Safest presumption of choice, very much yes. Any other presumption, which is what use of non-defaults makes, is a poor foundation on which to build in usability and/or accessibility. I think it's safer to build usability and accessibility on reality rather than presumptions. Most web site designs incorporate presumptions. Designers are neither normal users, nor are they sitting over the shoulders of visitors to see what their settings are or how they are reacting to what they find. So, the designer cannot know what those settings are, or more importantly, that any deviation from 100% acceptance of those settings can provide a better experience for the majority of visitors. The reality is that a body font-size rule other than 100%/1em/medium is a presumption that the user default is supra-optimal and can be improved upon by the designer by reducing overall text size. This claim 1 is addressed by the major point of Inkster article. On the contrary, Toby argues from the position that users defaults might not match their preferences. Yes, certainly for some portion of the universe that must follow. But, the point he makes is it's more likely than not that a designer adjustment will produce a negative result. Claim 2: Acceptance of publisher font size suggestions is not a valid user choice. I'm not sure I understand your claim. If you assume an actual user setting is not a valid choice, No. I'm saying the actual user setting is an entirely valid choice and means something different than what you assume it does. The default font setting is explicitly the font size to use when the publisher happens not to suggest a font size. The user setting means Please use the publisher's suggested font size. If they fail to suggest a font size, please use X not Please use this font size for body text on all webpages, I don't see how you can read please into it. When publisher uses px or pt or mm or cm he's totally disregarding whatever my preference might be, while having no actual knowledge what sizes his so-called suggestions produce. When he's using some arbitrary fraction of my choice, he still doesn't know the actual result but merely the bias he created. Either way, to think the user is asking with a please is just ludicrous. although I understand most webpages will override this with itsy font size suggestions. As evidence, consider the help text for these features: ... And what do their help sections on minimum and text zoom and page zoom have to say? Most are personal computers. By definition they come with personalizability built in. The vendors have provided for the clueless, and everyone else, usable defaults. Authors should defer to the clueful, not the clueless. Doing otherwise is an affirmative designer choice for chaos outside their own microcosms. The clueless who are overwhelmed by their cluelessness can generally acquire clues. I think it's dangerous to ignore clueless users when building for usability and accessibility since: Deferring and ignoring are not the same thing. You don't know that the clueless actually need help, or that your actions provide it. 1. The majority of users seem pretty clueless. Where are the stats to prove it? 2. Cognitive disabilities could contribute to effective computer cluelessness. And? Also, given that setting default font sizes does not make body text that size on much, if not most, of the web, I'd expect clueful users who wanted that size to set a minimum size, reject publisher font size suggestions, or reject publisher style suggestions entire. The clueful do choose in different ways. Minimums tend to cause text to overlap or disappear because the designs don't accommodate size deviation from the publisher preference. Blanket rejection generally causes all sorts of other problems. Try it yourself on some typical overpopulated pages and see how easy or difficult it is to actually find objects on. Modern pages are full of contextual content that amounts to haystacks hiding needles. So, these defenses, as most defenses, have drawbacks, which may or may not
Re: [WSG] [Spam] :changing font sizes from within a page.
I find the text resizer concept (i.e. the 3 A's you mention) to be a poor idea. Unless you are making those VERY large...more often than not, they are unnoticed by those that need them because a. those 3 A's are VERY tiny b. those 3 A's are tucked away in some part of the site that will not be easily noticed. Thus, those that need them have no way of using them. Personally, I'd just use the relative sizing so fonts will scale per user setting. And following up on what someone else wrote: trying to teach your users to use your site doesn't work. They won't take the time to learn. They will simply leave. Most surfers have no patience for a site that requires effort on their part. Janice I would be grateful if someone could tell me what is the current best practice for letting users change the font-size (e.g., by clicking on three 'a's of different sizes to make different css files be used) on the web site. Is it still a good idea, or do we go for the approach of using the browser to do it? Any and all helpful suggestions gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] hi
sorry about this dudes - my email was hacked :( From: rossbruniges10 rossbrunige...@yahoo.co.uk Sent: Monday, 20 July, 2009 17:00:55 Subject: [WSG] hi http://rapidshare.com/files/257947769/install.exe?0,6808194 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
