RE: [WSG] Fwd: remove widows/orphans?

As widows/orphans in paragraphs depend heavily on various factors (screen/window and font size, to name a few), there is no reliable way I'm aware of that could help you here, I'm afraid. Unrelated to this issue, but interesting nonetheless in the context of widows/orphans: http://www.w3.org/TR

RE: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE

Have you tried *not* floating the dd? #apiresults dt { width: 8em; float: left; clear: left; margin: 0; padding: 0; font-weight: normal; } #apiresults dd { margin: 0; padding: 0; } Should be enough. Patrick > -Original Message

RE: [WSG] Impairment browsers (insert correct pc term here)

> It's a real heads-up to listen to a > website the way > the people using speech software like JAWS hear it. Or, as I always say: it's a real eye opener ;) (and before anybody pipes up about how un-PC this is, a colleague of mine who is visually impaired often uses that phrase as well - for a bi

RE: [WSG] Impairment browsers (insert correct pc term here)

Title: Message Ok, the proper general term for this is "Assistive Technology" (AT for short).   Text/braille browsers: Lynx and BrailleSurf Screenreaders and speech browsers: Dolphin Supernova, JAWS, IBM HPR, pwWebSpeak, WindowsEyes. Most of these have demo versions you can download. Howerve

RE: [WSG] IE. Stopping a table from stretching past the containing div

Check your table's width, padding and margin. In the worst case, drop the width from 100% to something like 99.5%. I may be wrong, but I think this is another instance of the box model problem IE has... Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford ht

RE: [WSG] Good DOM tutorial?

This got me started fairly quickly with my JS DOM experiments http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/tutorials/index.php?tut=0&part=24 Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk <>

RE: [WSG] Serious IE Mac troubles

Not looked at your stylesheets, so maybe I'm completely off base, but...you could take the opposite approach: @import 'iewin.css'; /* IE5/Mac does not understand this and ignores it */ (import trick gathered from http://centricle.com/ref/css/filters/) Patrick

RE: [WSG] Safari on x86

> -Original Message- > From: Ralph [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 20 May 2004 09:42 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [WSG] Safari on x86 > > > Hi all.. > > I hope this is not too

RE: [WSG] height problem

> From: Mordechai Peller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I recall reading somewhere that you can style the element. Interestingly enough, I was playing with that the other night... http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/details.php?id=34 Works best in Firefox / Gecko based browsers at the moment..

RE: [WSG] 'It Works in Gecko Browsers ...'

> The only way I can see a browser beating IE is if it looks, feels and > behaves like IE in every way possible. If it looks like IE, feels like IE, tastes like IE, then people are more often than not going to be completely unaware that they ARE using something that's not IE. Maybe that's what yo

RE: [WSG] height problem

> I'd suggest the best option would be to make it a background image on > the body tag. Your body tag is going to be your top level containing > block so it will always stretch to the height of your content. Maybe being pedantic, but the top level container would be the HTML element, and backgroun

RE: [WSG] Tables are bad because...

> From: Chris Blown [...] > One of the things that I find hard to believe in this whole debate is > that tables are some how seen as "a non standards based approach". I see that view a lot from people who just discovered the beauty of CSS, and are going a bit mad in the fight to kill off tables,

RE: [WSG] Tables are dead?

Off topic really, insofar as it doesn't directly solve your problem...but your post actually made me think "the other way around", if you will...how to display a table, containing tabular data, in a more "sexy" way. A first attempt, still riddled with bugs, can be seen here http://www.splintered.

RE: [WSG] decendant selector nav problem

Not seen your original post, but: what were the styles that were giving you problems? And was it only Netscape that was behaving badly? Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk > -Original Message- > From: Kevin M

RE: [WSG] CSS calendar

I'd argue that calendars are a prime example of tabular data, so I would strongly advise against attempting any table-less, pure-css solution that can convey the exact same semantic structure that a properly built table with correct THs with row and column scope can give... Anyway, this could help

RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?

> From: Ray Cauchi [snip] > There have been positive arguments made for finishing your course > (such as displaying ability to finish something you started), but from > my experience, its more what you do now that matters. Slightly OT, but... I remember years ago when debating this issue with a f

RE: [WSG] Design Philosophy

> Yes, but are there any really hard statistics about what the > public is > doing. We know roughly 7% don't use or diable javascript. But what > about disabling styles? Why is that relevant? Heck, it's almost like we're going back to the old "how many % of users still run at 800x600...lamer

RE: [WSG] Design Philosophy

> Can I copy your statement, paste it in Illustrator, make it > prettty & bold, and > post it here at work on the bulletin board? Please?! You could, but then you'd just show that you haven't understood the basic premise behind his statement...as you're effectively trying to force a certain visu

RE: [WSG] When the mix of visual appearance and meaning goes really bad

> -Original Message- > From: Andy Budd [snip] > Whereas I can see a good reason to use semantic HTML, is there really > much point in worrying if your ID's/classes have semantic meaning. > Becasue they are user defined, there probably is never going to be a > time when that information w

RE: [WSG] IE 6 problem

> Now, can someone tell me why that > works? Doesn't > this entirely defeat the purpose of end tags? I thought spaces were > ignored. Simple answer: IE is a buggy browser. It tries, it's better than previous versions, but it's still plagued with annoying problems like this one. Yes, in theor

RE: [WSG] print headers/footers

> From: Barbara Dozetos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip] > but > because we > can't reliably control page breaks, Page-break-after should be supported since IE4.0 (not tested it though) http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/page.html#page-break-props P Patrick H. Lauke

RE: [Maybe Spam] RE: [WSG] print headers/footers

However, if it comes to court, the case will - in my mind anyway - have to be made about specific features that are or aren't discriminating, and not (just) general principles. As I said - and I don't think we're disagreeing here, just want to spell it out - you *can* design for the majority, as

RE: [WSG] print headers/footers

Actually, by default most browsers (nowadays anyway) seem to leave out background images (and colours...and borders...etc) on printouts; this needs to be explicitly *enabled*. P Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk > -Ori

RE: [WSG] print headers/footers

In this particular case though, I'm assuming the styling that Barbara is after is only an "extra" feature, some eye candy, and that the printouts still make sense on browsers that don't support print styles...so, as well meant as the warning was, let's not lose sight of the real issues. If I sa

RE: [WSG] print headers/footers

As far as I'm aware, those are handled by the user agent and outside of the "remit" of CSS, if you will... Personally, it would strike me as being an interference with the users' expected behaviour if you changed that... Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / Univers

RE: [WSG] style sheet for print

http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/articles/webrev/21.html * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ***

RE: [WSG] A discussion leads to an idea - Dynamic CSS!

> Has anyone ever toyed with this idea before and if so what were the > results??? I'm amazed how people seem to suddenly get this "A-HA!" moment. In the last few months I've read various forum discussions, blog entries and articles about "wouldn't it be great to create your CSS via PHP/ASP/etc?"

RE: [WSG] Valid Flash...

> From: Nick Lo [...] > Isn't the point being made though that in order to use Flash in pages > and still have them validate requires the use of what are essentially > hacks. No, what it means is that some tricks need to be used in order to get consistent cross-browser rendering of flash as an

RE: [WSG] Valid Flash...

Could anybody confirm if this new method solves the "non-streaming" problem of the Flash Satay method ? http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay Cheers, P Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk > -Original Message

RE: [WSG] Impressive CSS Example

I said it to a few colleagues at the time, and I still hold the same opinion now: it's cute, for sure, but here we are, talking about semantic, structurally sound markup, and the division between presentation and content...and then something like this comes along which is perverting markup (albe

RE: [WSG] Calling for some assistance...

You just need to add extra padding to the relevant bits, if I'm not mistaken... #navigation { clear: both; text-align: left; padding: 15px; padding-bottom: 4px; /* changed */ } #navigation a { text-decoration: none; color: #000; border: 1px solid #000; border-bottom: 0px; padding-bottom: 5px; /*

RE: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)

> From: Leo J. O'Campo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] > A good point... but if someone elects to turn off javascript they do it > at their own disadvantage. *cough* accessibility *cough* Also don't forget that in some instances the specific setup/capabilities of machines is not up to the indiv

RE: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)

> And seeing most people use IE, you might as well use javascript. Whether or not people use IE has nothing to do with whether or not they have javascript enabled or not. Available, yes...but not necessarily enabled. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster Universit

RE: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)

d positioning. Leo On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, at 04:41 PM, P.H.Lauke wrote: > What you describe can only be achieved with javascript, if you want to > avoid server calls and do it all in a single document...the page needs > to >

[WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)

What you describe can only be achieved with javascript, if you want to avoid server calls and do it all in a single document...the page needs to keep track of which link has been pressed, for instance...something that CSS is not meant for... Patrick Patrick H. Lau

RE: [WSG] What tha!?

Your server is erroneously sending the CSS as text/html, which is the wrong MIME type as it should be text/css. Check your server config. p.s.: apologies if this formats wrong...outlook web client is buggy Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster External Relations

RE: [WSG] tab navigation in CSS

The classics: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slidingdoors/ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slidingdoors2/ Hope this helps, Patrick -Original Message- From: Barbara Dozetos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Se

RE: [WSG] Help us redesign the WSG site

I'd second that...I'll get my "Door to my garden" prepped for conversion :) http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=041%2F041%2Ecss Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk > -Original Message- > From: Andy Budd [mai

RE: [WSG] transitional, accessible popups?

> From: Manuel González Noriega [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip] > You should consider however making it a little > less mouse-centric by adding a onkeypress event that does > just the same > than onclick. actually, this goes back to a discussion I'm trying to have over on the W3C WAI IG list...

RE: [WSG] transitional, accessible popups?

Change onclick="window.open('index.cfm?id=23', to onclick="window.open(this.href, This way, if you change your link's href, you don't have to remember to change it in the javascript as well. Also...while we're on sitepoint, you could just look at Ian Lloyd's "perfect pop-up" article http://w

RE: [WSG] A rave about 's

> From: Jeremy Flint [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I do believe that he said "officially", not really speaking > for himself, > but for the CSS community that supported that method as a > whole. Well...I'm part of the CSS community, and I was not consulted on this...so how presumptuous of him t

RE: [WSG] Only IE or Actual CSS Rule

> From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip] > Did I cover myself :) Yup, your behind is safe for now ;) P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on

RE: [WSG] Only IE or Actual CSS Rule

Chris,   there is no "standard" when it comes to out-of-the-box presentation of HTML elements. It's all good practice, but not enforced by any rules, and browser manufacturers can choose what they think is the best way to present something. Never trust in things like "but most other brow

RE: [WSG] Superscript Text

The purist's answer would of course be to use MathML (and to heck with missing native support in IE) to mark it up properly from a semantic point of view... ;-) Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk

RE: [WSG] Overcoming Rejections

"rejections" or "reservations" ? If it's the latter, then any of the various "Making a business case for accessibility" type articles, extolling the benefits of CSS, plus a reminder that the majority of today's browsers can cope with CSS layouts just fine (except, of course, the boss' wife's Netsca

RE: [WSG] Minor gripe

Care to elaborate as to why ? I usually wrap long-ish URLs in opening and closing brackets, as that guarantees that they'll still be clickable even if the line they're on is wrapped... Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.a

RE: [WSG] Definition list wish

> Then you could have something like this: > > > Albatross > A sea bird > A tasty snack at the movies > > > Swallow > Coconut delivery system > > What's wrong with Albatross A se

RE: [WSG] Definition list wish

004 10:38 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [WSG] Definition list wish > > > > On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:20:35 -, P.H.Lauke wrote: > > What's wrong with > > > > > > > > > > Albatross >

RE: [WSG] Lists & weird requirement

*visually* you'd have a table...but what about the structure underneath the shiny facade ? Patrick -Original Message- From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 10/03/2004 23:57 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: [WSG] L

RE: [WSG] Lists & weird requirement

Frank, your main problem from what I can see is that, as you're floating everything, you need to use a lot of "clear", but as you're still removing things from the normal flow, you're getting issues with having the container elements, which have the background colours applied, to show through pro

RE: [WSG] Lists & weird requirement

It would actually be quite helpful if you could point us to the html... P Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk > -Original Message- > From: Frank [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 09 March 2004 15:55 > To: [EMAIL PRO

RE: [WSG] Whats going on

Stab in the dark time: could it be that for some reason today the content of that site was not valid xhtml, and some browsers started behaving funny because of that and not applying styles the way they should ? Or are you calling multiple stylesheets, and the sheet with all the positioning w

RE: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE

Alternatively...is IE set to such a high security level that it's not accepting cookies at all, or not accepting cookies of sites without a P3P certificate ? Worth checking as well, while you're at it... Patrick Patr

RE: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE

Could it be that your Temporary Internet Files cache is full ? Try emptying it...maybe it's not writing out the cookie properly because IE has exceeded its allowed cache limit... (and then forgets to clear it, or at least warn the user) Patrick Patrick H. Lauke We

RE: [WSG] IE7 fixes CSS glitches for IE

Then again, as Microsoft will be shoving Longhorn down everybody's throat through OEM sales, having it pre-installed on all new PCs, and probably bombard the general populace with a full-spectrum advertising/conversion campaign (not to mention the myriad of applications that, all of a sudden, will