[WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
Hi All - I'm putting together a template for a contents list page for the National Library of Australia's online pictures delivery system. We need to start an ordered list on a page from a number other than 1, as the lists could be quite long and so will be chunked into a set per page. There are two solutions... the first, for example: text info in here ... or, the second: number inserted in here from our digital content management system text info in here ... While the first would be more elegant, start is now a depricated attribute. What do people suggest? Thanks Somaya _____ Somaya Langley Digital Preservations Officer / Web Audio Analyst National Library of Australia Parkes Place Canberra ACT 2600 ph +61 2 6262 1366 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.musicaustralia.org http://www.nla.gov.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
Thanks guys. Javascript is out, as our internal NLA standards try to avoid where possible. Value attribute falls into the same category as the start attribute... Yes, theoretically you can do things with the counter in CSS, but to actually do anything meaningful, CSS would really need to be a fully programmable environment where relationships and variables were possible and easy to handle. ON another note... re: Can someone explain why this incredibly useful attribute: >> >> is deprecated, or is it? There's a little bit of info here http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/2004-March/000255.htm l Thanks Somaya _________ Somaya Langley Digital Preservations Officer / Web Audio Analyst National Library of Australia Parkes Place Canberra ACT 2600 ph +61 2 6262 1366 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.musicaustralia.org http://www.nla.gov.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
Perhaps you're right that an ordered list is not the right list to choose, as it will be chunked and split across pages, however the scenario is such that: * a collection of images may contain thousands of items * the collection is the highest level in the heirachy and so needs a "finding aid" in some way to access items within the collection and to describe relationships that may not be possible at lower levels (not worth going into, needless to say that there are complex relationships between items particularly in manuscript collections) * the way that's been selected is to show a thumbnail icon and the title or some descriptive metadata (similar to search results pages on the site: http://www.musicaustralia.org) * list of items/images (including file sizes) would be too long that our usability tests (and commonsense) shows that users are just unable to scroll through thousands of items - hence chunking is necesssary * while there is a fairly indepth persistent identification naming scheme for image files, again it harks back to the relationships that can't be expressed via the naming scheme and the need to build these content list pages as a way for users to view large collections perhaps I'll roll this page back to XHTML transitional so start can be used, but am hesitant to begin by knowingly working with things that aren't "the way forward" so to speak. Thanks Somaya -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Tan Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 12:29 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1 Chris Kennon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Can someone explain why this incredibly useful attribute: >>> >>> > is deprecated, or is it? It is depreciated ( http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html) although it is not obselete therefore will still be supported for backward compatibility. One possible reason could be that it completely destroys the semantics of an ordered list by allowing it to be broken up. I'm curious about the function of the list - does the numbering describe the images to make them meaningful in some way? An ordered list spread over multiple URIs strikes me as wrong as the list portion referenced by an individual URI may have less meaning when dislocated from other portions of the list. Something like spreading a library index over different rooms[files] in the building[domain]. Is there a reason apart from file size / download time that this list should be spread over multiple pages? I assume the archive is huge but if its just a contents list page then wouldn't it be hypertext with anchors for blocks and meaningful URIs for each image? I assume the library has some kind of tagging system or category system to classify images so access to groups of images themselves is achieved through that? Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] final word on numbering lists...
of course, you could just use the start attribute *and* the Strict DTD. I consider this the case where using start is the best *and simplest* solution, and frankly, that's what we're all trying to do isn't it. If we keep it simple - it's not just keeping content and layout separate, especially when XHML is *only* the front component to largescale dynamic database driven sites. Thanks all for your input, if anyone who is working for/with w3c is on this list, perhaps this could be fed back...? Hope you all had a good meeting at the NLA a few weeks back, sorry couldn't make it. Thanks again Somaya _________ Somaya Langley Digital Preservations Officer / Web Audio Analyst National Library of Australia Parkes Place Canberra ACT 2600 ph +61 2 6262 1366 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.musicaustralia.org http://www.nla.gov.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter J. Farrell Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 1:31 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1 matt andrews wrote: >Agree with Bert and Geoff here. The dropping of 'start' attribute >from strict DTD was, and is, a controversial W3C decision - one with >which I disagree, personally. There are plenty of plausible and >sensible scenarios for having an ordered list start with something >other than 1... this NLA case being an excellent example. This is one >case where I would regard (this particular aspect of) validation as >being a hindrance rather than a help. > > I like where the W3C Validator says that a page with the start attribute is invalid whereas Tidy says it's ok... I'm in total agreement that start shouldn't have been dropped. There are several legal type documents that require things to be numbered. However, for the reason of simplicity for the user it was decided by the web team that the sections be different pages and the number needs to remain consistent. Even though it's depreciated and many pages at many websites aren't valid in the first place -- couldn't you still use the start attribute on a Strict page anyways? Ducks and runs...*poof* .Peter -- Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishing http://blog.maestropublishing.com Rooibos Generator - Version 2.1 Create boilerplate beans and transfer objects for ColdFusion for free! http://rooibos.maestropublishing.com/ - Member Team Mach-II - Member Team Fusion! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
