Re: [WSG] Is it still necessary to encode ampersands?
Notepad++ is a good free editor for Windows that should work for this. On 25 June 2010 15:54, Jelina Korhecz jelina.korh...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dan, As far as I'm aware, this is still necessary. However, if you're doing a huge replacement of to amp; you can use BBEdit or (the free version) Text Wrangler to find and replace over multiple files. (However this program is only available on the mac--I'm not sure if Windows/Linux has a similar application.) If you need a hand with using BBEdit/Text Wrangler, feel free to drop me a line :) Cheers, Jelina On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Dan Webb libweb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi folks, Years ago, I use to painstakingly and religiously convert to amp; when ever I encountered it (HTML 4.01 Strict doctype). It's still pegged as invalid by the W3C validator, but is it really still necessary these days? What could possibly go wrong in modern browsers? I'm talking specifically here about ampersands in URLs that are provided to me by database vendors, which I have no control over; I'm about to start inserting literally 100s of them into static html pages. thanks, danny boy. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE6 Finally Nearing Extinction [STATS]
Hi Phil, Sadly, no, it's not a typo. For some reason, known only to our IT department, they got locked into a vendor contract on some mission critical software where the vendor has only recently certified IE7 compatibility. The vendor *has not* certified their product with IE8, so we can't move to that. The same software does not work on any other browser like FF, Safari, or Opera. I assume they have some activeX components in there they they don't know how to port to Javascript. It is not something that we (the web team. we are not part of IT) are happy about, but our IT department doesn't listen to us web people. Lucien. On 12 June 2010 17:28, Phil Archer ph...@w3.org wrote: Thanks everyone for these interesting stats - depressing as they are. Lucien - I assume it's not a typo when you say your IT department is now rolling out IE7. I'm curious to know the rationale behind that cf. going straight to IE8. If they're doing all the testing to ensure that IE7 is safe from a company point of view, why not go for the current version? What am I missing? Thanks Phil. -- Phil Archer W3C Mobile Web Initiative http://www.w3.org/Mobile http://philarcher.org @philarcher1 nedlud wrote: Our site is a large health care site. Of the ~25 visitors in the last month, Google says the break down by browser is... Internet Explorer 69.44% Firefox 15.98% Safari 9.32% Chrome 4.20% And of the IE traffic, we get... IE 8.0 37.90% IE 7.0 32.87% IE 6.0 29.23% And that is only our external traffic. Our intranet traffic is a different story since IE6 is still our official browser, although our IT department has finally started rolling our IE7 as of this week. So for us, IE 6 can't be ignored, as much as we would like to. Lucien. On 11 June 2010 23:17, Duncan Hill dun...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:32:03 +0100, Foskett, Mike mike.fosk...@uk.tesco.com wrote: Hi all, Ref Links for light reading article: http://mashable.com/2010/06/01/ie6-below-5-percent/ Which basically states IEv6 has dropped below the 5% threshold across USA and Europe. Nice figures, the stats were produced for May 2010, and calculated for 15 Billion page views. The quoted 4.7% using IE 6 therefore still amounts to around 70 Million page views during May 2010. (that's the entire population of the UK, and then some) . dead? Duncan *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE6 Finally Nearing Extinction [STATS]
Our site is a large health care site. Of the ~25 visitors in the last month, Google says the break down by browser is... Internet Explorer 69.44% Firefox 15.98% Safari 9.32% Chrome 4.20% And of the IE traffic, we get... IE 8.0 37.90% IE 7.0 32.87% IE 6.0 29.23% And that is only our external traffic. Our intranet traffic is a different story since IE6 is still our official browser, although our IT department has finally started rolling our IE7 as of this week. So for us, IE 6 can't be ignored, as much as we would like to. Lucien. On 11 June 2010 23:17, Duncan Hill dun...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:32:03 +0100, Foskett, Mike mike.fosk...@uk.tesco.com wrote: Hi all, Ref Links for light reading article: http://mashable.com/2010/06/01/ie6-below-5-percent/ Which basically states IEv6 has dropped below the 5% threshold across USA and Europe. Nice figures, the stats were produced for May 2010, and calculated for 15 Billion page views. The quoted 4.7% using IE 6 therefore still amounts to around 70 Million page views during May 2010. (that's the entire population of the UK, and then some) . dead? Duncan *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Yes/No structure?
I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it. I got to wondering what the best semantic mark up for this is? Does anyone have any good UI/UX suggestions? My three ideas were... Two radio buttons for yes and no... pDo you...?/p label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no A single check box. A tick implies a yes answer while no tick implies no... pDo you...?/p input type=checkbox name=ans id=ans Or a selection list with a yes and a no answer... pDo you...?/p select name=ans id=ans option value=yesYes/option option value=noNo/option /select Which is the preferred way? Or can you suggest a better way? Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
Hmm. I hadn't considered the wording of the actual question to be so important. But I can sure see your point. The full questions in the form is Do you require an interpreter? This is followed by: If so, what language? I am porting a paper based for onto the web, and the paper based version has explicit check boxes for yes and no. But it occurred to me that on the web, I could reduce the two check boxes down to one. Tick the box if you require an interpreter. Then dynamically insert the what language question if they answer yes. (Yes, an obvious problem with all this is that the form is all written in English. I guess the client is assuming an English speaker is helping the Non-English speaker with the form). I often look for the simplest way to represent thing, an in this case, a single check box can easily represent both the yes and no states (checked or not checked). But is this the best UX? Are people more comfortable with explicit yes/no choices? Even when it might be more verbose than absolutely necessary? Lucien. On 4 June 2010 13:29, John Unsworth john.unswo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Lucien, The first thing that occurs to me regarding the semantics of the action is what is the Yes/No proposition in regards to, and that this might provide a clearer notion as to what to do. By this what I mean is, in the first instance so far as semantic mark up is concerned it would appear that a radio button is exactly what you would use. Here it is a case of either on or off. Yes or no. However the first thing I thought of, and I suppose this is in more regards a UI/UX consideration is the design pattern we see with webmail clients and the Remember me check box. So returning to the first point, are you simply asking for a Yes/No action or like the Remember me function a call to action with an Option Yes or Option No result? In which case your question might be rephrased by improving the microcopy of your markup. Instead of Do you..? the semantics are improved by fixing the proposition, ie; Remember me for 2 weeks - tick on = Yes, un-ticked = No, or another example, rather than Would you like to receive our email newsletter? radio buttons Yes/No, checkbox pre-selected followed by Uncheck if you would not like to receive our email newsletter. In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr book Designing the Obvious and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008; http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his approach. But I'll try and quickly summarise it for you. Original form starts - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes/No. Second iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes, then checkbox's for Medical, Dental, Vision - Radio Button No. Third iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = checkbox's for Medical, Dental, Vision - implied is if you don't check any, you would of selected No. So to sum up, before it's a question of which is the best markup to use, what is the actual end result of this action and can it be handled a better way? Cheers, John Unsworth On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it. I got to wondering what the best semantic mark up for this is? Does anyone have any good UI/UX suggestions? My three ideas were... Two radio buttons for yes and no... pDo you...?/p label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no A single check box. A tick implies a yes answer while no tick implies no... pDo you...?/p input type=checkbox name=ans id=ans Or a selection list with a yes and a no answer... pDo you...?/p select name=ans id=ans option value=yesYes/option option value=noNo/option /select Which is the preferred way? Or can you suggest a better way? Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join
Re: [WSG] Background music on web pages
Regardless of how you implement this, I'd advise running away once the money clears. Also make sure they pay *lots* for maintenance on the site. Don't get caught out when they get told by somebody else that their site sucks because it's got music in it. I also wouldn't put such a job in my portfolio, nor put my name on the site in any visible way. You have *your* reputation to consider. In fact, unless you really need this job, I'd seriously consider walking away. A client that dictates their terms like this is typically far more trouble than they are worth, in my experience. Good luck, L. On 1 March 2010 13:10, James Ellis james.el...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Give them all the background information that people have listed here. WCAG, usability info etc. If they still decide they want it, do as the client instructs. Make sure you code in a simple off switch configuration option into the site and when they want to change it, turn it off while counting to 10 backwards. Sometimes clients are like that episode of the Simpsons when Bart repeatedly burns his hand on the stove. You could also try doing an A/B test and provide some results to them for sound / no sound -- traffic, clicks, time on site etc. see: http://www.usertesting.com/. Cheers James On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Andrew Cunningham andr...@vicnet.net.auwrote: HI On 28/02/2010 6:18 PM, Brett Goulder wrote: I would just point your client to some usability articles and educate them why background music is very bad. although I tend to hate background music, even when it was in vogue way back when There are valid accessibility reason for playing sound files on page load. On one project i'm starting work on we are working with what UNESCO tends to refer to as a lesser used language on the internet. A lot of information needs to presented, but we also need to take into account mother language literacy levels, which are quite low in the target communities. So need to for usability and accessibility reasons to look at non-textual alternatives to textual material. So options to enable the playing of audio on page load is quite useful. Doesn't get around that problem of site navigation, maybe sound snippets and icons may help, but rendering complex semantics into small icons can be difficult if not impossible. This project has definitely shown me how much the web is mired in a literate model, and am stuggling with how to adapt to a model based on orality rather than literacy. My 2 cents would be to just not do it. for music I'd agree, for other purposes http://completeusability.com/regrettable-background-music/ Bruce P wrote: Smal player and an off button one can find immediately is a prerequisite :) Bruce - Original Message - From: Lesley Lutomski ubu...@webaflame.co.uk To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:50 AM Subject: [WSG] Background music on web pages Hi all, I apologise if this is off-topic, but I'd really appreciate some advice. I have clients who insist they want background music on their Web site. I've tried to dissuade them, but without success. What is the most acceptable/least intrusive method of doing this? UK licensing requirements differ depending on whether the music is downloadable or not, so I need to sort out the method in order to advise them on the licences. I'm still hoping the complexities of the licensing system will succeed where I've failed and put them off the whole notion, but in case not, I'd be most grateful for some input here. Thank you. Lesley *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Andrew Cunningham Senior Project Manager, Research and Development Vicnet State Library of Victoria 328 Swanston Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Ph: +61-3-8664-7430 Fax: +61-3-9639-2175 Email: andr...@vicnet.net.au Alt email: lang.supp...@gmail.com http://home.vicnet.net.au/~andrewc/http://home.vicnet.net.au/%7Eandrewc/ http://www.openroad.net.au
[WSG] NPO web standards guidelines in Australia?
Hi people, I see that the Australian government has required all government agency web sites to be WCAG 2.0 compliant by 2015. http://webpublishing.agimo.gov.au/Accessibility I work for a non profit organisation that receives government funding, but I am unaware of our legal obligation to accessibility. Obviously we have a moral obligation, but I'd like to be able to see some legal guidelines. Any pointers? Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] NPO web standards guidelines in Australia?
Thanks for that Kerry. On 24 February 2010 14:17, Webb, KerryA kerrya.w...@act.gov.au wrote: Nedlud wrote: Hi people, I see that the Australian government has required all government agency web sites to be WCAG 2.0 compliant by 2015. http://webpublishing.agimo.gov.au/Accessibility I work for a non profit organisation that receives government funding, but I am unaware of our legal obligation to accessibility. Obviously we have a moral obligation, but I'd like to be able to see some legal guidelines. Any pointers? Try http://www.hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/standards/www_3/www_3.htmlwhich governs all sites - government, commercial and private. The simple answer is that you aren't going to go to jail for creating an inaccessible site, but that if someone makes a complaint you may be required to fix it. Kerry (responsible for Web Standards with the ACT Government) --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] NPO web standards guidelines in Australia?
That's exactly what it means ;) Sad but true. Resources ... blah blah ... deadlines ... blah blah ... too much work .. blah blah ... I suspect it's a familiar story to many. L. On 24 February 2010 14:59, sans principles sans.princip...@gmail.comwrote: Does this mean the moral obligation alone is not compelling enough for your organisation to be convinced to follow the requirement, and they will only do so if there is a danger of legal issues? sp. ( in a similar situation). . Lucien wrote: I work for a non profit organisation that receives government funding, but I am unaware of our legal obligation to accessibility. Obviously we have a moral obligation, but I'd like to be able to see some legal guidelines. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] a tiny usability question on web form
In terms of coding such a form, are you populating the state field with any information that depends on knowing what country the user is in? (or any other location dependant information in other fields?). If the answer is yes, then I'd say it's quite important to have the country field *before* state for exactly the reasons your client states. And in my experience, this is also quite normal for commerce sites of international companies. Try buying something from Amazon or Apple for examples. If there is *no* dynamic or location dependant information in the other fields, then I'd say that it doesn't matter, in a technical sense, where you put the country field. It becomes a question of taste. Having said that, I think you will find it is quite common to put country before state (that sounds almost like a political statement ;) ). I would be cautious about looking at American sites for examples of this. Many American sites are strangely myopic about the rest of the world. Look at big/international company sites (even ones based in America. Bigger companies see the bigger picture more clearly). L. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Lesley Lutomski ubu...@webaflame.co.ukwrote: I agree with Andrew. I'd find it far less confusing to enter my country first, rather than in the middle of the address. (Personally, I also find having state before city very strange.) Lesley Andrew Maben wrote: I think this *is* a usability issue. How vital is it to have states available as a pull-down, rather than a simple text field? If the pull-down is non-negotiable, my suggestion would be to move the country choice to the top of the address section: I think that might be a little less jarring than placing it in the middle. Andrew http://www.andrewmaben.net and...@andrewmaben.com mailto:and...@andrewmaben.com /In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions./ On Jan 5, 2010, at 10:52 AM, tee wrote: On Jan 5, 2010, at 7:19 AM, Elias Abunassar wrote: Conduct research. Sent from my iPhone Please do not assume people don't do homework before they post :-) I did conduct research before I posted my message. Here are the problems: 1. I have difficulty to locate sites in different countries that the web forms have address. Google is not useful in this case. 2. web forms that have addresses and they are mostly eCommerce sites, and it seems they all use templates that come with the eCommerce system, and they are generic, more like tagsoup address and country field is placed at the last (exclude phone/fax fields). I checked over 30 sites from 10 countries, no exception. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org mailto: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] web style guide
Hi there, I need to write a web style guide for our web site. Does anyone know of any good examples I could draw inspiration from? We already have our style sheets etc working, but need to have some kind of documentation we can hand to third party or contract developers so they can work to our standards. Thanks, Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] web style guide
Thanks everyone. Some great resources there. I have plenty to read now :) Lucien. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Nick Cowie cowie.n...@gmail.com wrote: And a couple more links: http://www.pebbleroad.com/articles/view/Creating-Maintaining-a-Web-Style-Guide/ http://delicious.com/maish/styleguide 2009/12/3 kris wright kcwri...@gmail.com: Hi Lucien, I don't have any style guides of my own to share, but I have two links you may want to review: A List Apart: Writing an interface style guide (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/writingainterfacestyleguide/) Government of Canada's Common Look and Feel for the Internet (http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/index-eng.asp) Kris On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:59 PM, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there, I need to write a web style guide for our web site. Does anyone know of any good examples I could draw inspiration from? We already have our style sheets etc working, but need to have some kind of documentation we can hand to third party or contract developers so they can work to our standards. Thanks, Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Nick Cowie http://nickcowie.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Sent from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Anchor tag without href
Don't forget that old school named anchors actually used the name attribute... a name=some_targetthe target/a Then linked to it the same way you would for any tag with an id... a href=#some_targetclick here/a I think IE6 still requires this technique. On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Nathanael Boehm n...@purecaffeine.comwrote: Hi Naveen, Sure you can for named anchors with document fragment identifiers, but AFAIK all modern browsers (and I'm not sure which ones if any didn't) support the use of using *any* HTML element to link to using a doc frag ID. For example the URL: http://www.example.com#contact could link to: a id=contact / or straight to the relevant header: h2 id=contactContact/h2 Cheers, Nathanael Boehm Freelance web user interaction designer UX · IxD · UI design · Prototyping · HTML · CSS · JS · Usability · Accessibility · Social media Imagine Innovation · UXnet Canberra · OpenAustralia · BarCampCanberra www.purecaffeine.com http://www.purecaffeine.com/about/ Canberra, Australia 0409 288 464 On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Naveen Bhaskar naveenbhas...@live.inwrote: hi , could anyone tell me whether an anchor tag can be used without href according to webstandads? a id=rateme img src=somepath alt=/a -- Thanks and regards Naveen Bhaskar *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Sent from Melbourne, Vic, Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Problem with onclick and onClick
Don't use onclick. Bind the events in your JavaScript. A library like jQuery makes this easy and browser independent. It's better code and solves your validation problems. On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 5:20 AM, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote: Precisely! - Original Message - From: Anthony Gr. ant.grak...@gmail.com To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Problem with onclick and onClick How does onclick become to onClick? 2009/10/14 designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk: Can anyone help me with what is a basic question please? I have a library item (in Dreamweaver) which includes an onclick: a href=# onclick=window.print();return false . . . etc When the library item is inserted (into 37 pages) the format remains lower case and all pages validate, but when uploaded to the server the pages don't validate because they change to onClick. How can I stop this? What's going on? Anyone come across this? Any help gratefully received. Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] dl as paragraph?
Hi everyone. I was just looking at a page on the National Library of Australia web site ( http://www.nla.gov.au/services/issnabout.html) and noticed the font rendering was strange in my browser (Firefox 3.5.3). When I looked at the markup to try and understand why, I found that the site seem to be marked up using definition lists for paragraphs. I don't want to jump to conclusions, so can anyone suggest a legitimate reason for doing this? Each paragraph seems to be a new list (not a new list *item*. A whole new list). And the text is in a dd tag with no dt. The strange font rendering (in FF at least) seems to be caused by the font (Myriad Pro) being rendered at %90. Changing either the font size of face appears to fix it. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Accessibility of iFrames?
I have a content management system that uses frames for layout (not my choice). We need to improve the accessibility of the site. Short of ditching the CMS (not going to happen any time soon), or getting the vendor to write better code (also not likely to happen), how can we improve the accessibility? Would iframes help at all? Are they any better, from an accessibility point of view, than old fashioned frames? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] The 'Some Links for Light Reading' posts
I second that. On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Susie Gardner-Brown susi...@uq.edu.auwrote: Hi there I’d just like to send a big thank you to Russ Weakley for taking the time to collate and send this to WSG Announce each week! I always find really interesting stuff there, and usually bookmark a couple of links from it. So, thanks Russ – it’s really appreciated! Cheers susie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Sent from Melbourne, Vic, Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] internet explorer 7 problems
Try validating your page first. If there is a problem with your markup, it may cause things to go boom. http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A%2F%2Fstartrekcafe.alacorncomputer.com%2F On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Marvin Hunkin startrekc...@gmail.comwrote: hi. well on the site at http://startrekcafe.alacorncomputer.com there table is not showing up on the home page and on the produce page. got a summary but not reading the text. any ideas. cheers Marvin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] functionality without JavaScript [WAS: returning to scroll position in a table inside a fixed hight div]
Out of curiosity, what sort of feature are you talking about that can't be done server side (ie, *without* AJAX)? I'll confess to relying heavily on server side JS on some projects, but I did so because I knew those apps would be used exclusively on an intranet where the SOE was known to support JS. The user experience is definitely enhanced from the use of client side JS (it was a kind of online spread sheet used by the finance dept), but it's nothing I couldn't have done, with a little work, on the server side (and *lots* of page submissions). On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 4:29 PM, ravenrav...@mail.ru wrote: Hi. If a website client of yours hired you to manage an actual storefront and you arbitrarily slammed the door in the face of every 100th, 200th, or even 1000th customer, how long do you think would you keep your job? If some js feature bring me 100 costumers i can effort loose 1, which don't support js. Another question that i try to keep all of them, if it's possible. Graceful degradation is better than nothing, but progressive enhancement rocks. ACK. It rocks. Problem: Often some js feature (AJAX for example) is key to the project. Than first i develop server side scripts and front end, which depends on AJAX. And after i finish, if there is enough time and budget is OK, i modify front end (if needed) and write additional server side scripts so user may work without js. If code is good — add such accessibility feature is not a problem. But if you get project with low budget and where deadline was yesterday, than accessibility must first be sacrificed. If project stay alive — you may return to this question. Yes, progressive enhancement rocks. But, if don't use it wisely, you'll starve. Also I do support witches, but that's off-topic. Sorry for my English. I need more practice. Much much more practice. :) Regards. Raven aka Silent Imp. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: Who's responsible (was Re: [WSG] add to favorites?)
As I understand this thread, it is not about whether current standards are right or wrong, but how did we end up with these standards in the first place? The current standards did not just spring into existence, fully formed, out of the brow of some greek god. The standards evolved as peoples understanding of the web evolved. And the web itself was evolving at the same time, just as it continues to do. Just as the standards will continue to evolve. I'm certainly not saying that I disagree with current web standards, just that it would be foolish to think that they are *definitive*. As professionals, it is our responsibility to be reflective practitioners: to question the status quo and make sure it's really working. We can't do that without asking questions, or without listening to people who ask questions. The web is still an incredibly young medium and anyone who imagines that the standards we have today will apply to the web of tomorrow (I'm thinking of about a 10 year away tomorrow) would be naive. L. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: Who's responsible (was Re: [WSG] add to favorites?)
So true. But how long has the WG been working on HTML5? And assuming anyone ever reaches consensus on that, how long until browsers start supporting it in wide enough numbers for it to be a practical alternative for developers? Technology can change fast, but in the world of web, it can take some time for those changes to be felt. The web will be different enough in 2-3 years, but I imagine 10 years from now will be a complete paradigm shift. It was only ~10 years ago when table based layouts were best practice, and today forums like this would cheerfully roast anyone for even suggesting such a thing. (Actually I've seen people get flamed here for suggesting *any* use of a table, including for showing tabular data ;) ) L. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Browser Backwards Compatibility -- How far back?
How old was this book? Check the publication date and add 1 year (cause it can take that long for a book to get edited etc before it goes into publication) and then consider what browsers were arounf when the book was written. That may help understand why it's so behind the times. The web is rapidly evolving, which make treeware pretty bad at keeping up. L. On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Rick Faircloth r...@whitestonemedia.com wrote: I think you're perspective is correct, Christian. I don't even test in browsers that are two generations removed from the current release. Clients just have to update their browsers. However, if a client insists on supporting IE 5 with IE 7 out, yes, it will cost them extra. Rick -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:59 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Browser Backwards Compatibility -- How far back? On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Brett Patterson inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I was just reading from a book that talked about some code that would not work in Internet Explorer 3.0, but would in Internet Explorer 4.0 and later, and Netscape Navigator 3.0 and later. This brought up a question that I could not find direct and consistent answers while searching the Internet...so, how far back would it be acceptable to design for, when it comes to backwards browser compatibility? I have been told from some sites, that Internet Explorer 5.0/later and Netscape Navigator 4.0/later, as well as Firefox 1.5/later and Opera 6.0/later. Is this correct? Yahoo! has a good chart for browser support here: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/ This is not so much which browsers they support, but more which they test against and *guarantee* support for. So a Yahoo! site mike also work with IE 5.0, but they won't lose sleep if it doesn't. I think it's safe to say that if your client wants to guarantee support for an older browser not in this chart, then you should charge extra. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.278 / Virus Database: 270.11.12/1998 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Browser Backwards Compatibility -- How far back?
How old was this book? Check the publication date and add 1 year (cause it can take that long for a book to get edited etc before it goes into publication) and then consider what browsers were arounf when the book was written. That may help understand why it's so behind the times. The web is rapidly evolving, which make treeware pretty bad at keeping up. L. On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Rick Faircloth r...@whitestonemedia.com wrote: I think you're perspective is correct, Christian. I don't even test in browsers that are two generations removed from the current release. Clients just have to update their browsers. However, if a client insists on supporting IE 5 with IE 7 out, yes, it will cost them extra. Rick -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:59 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Browser Backwards Compatibility -- How far back? On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Brett Patterson inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I was just reading from a book that talked about some code that would not work in Internet Explorer 3.0, but would in Internet Explorer 4.0 and later, and Netscape Navigator 3.0 and later. This brought up a question that I could not find direct and consistent answers while searching the Internet...so, how far back would it be acceptable to design for, when it comes to backwards browser compatibility? I have been told from some sites, that Internet Explorer 5.0/later and Netscape Navigator 4.0/later, as well as Firefox 1.5/later and Opera 6.0/later. Is this correct? Yahoo! has a good chart for browser support here: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/ This is not so much which browsers they support, but more which they test against and *guarantee* support for. So a Yahoo! site mike also work with IE 5.0, but they won't lose sleep if it doesn't. I think it's safe to say that if your client wants to guarantee support for an older browser not in this chart, then you should charge extra. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.278 / Virus Database: 270.11.12/1998 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility
I'll confess my ignorance on this issue, but how do screen readers handle DHTML type injection of content into the DOM? Without using alerts, you could add the warning into the actual document. But how does a screen reader know the document has changed? L. On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Anthony Ziebell anth...@fatpublisher.com.au wrote: Hey group, Does anyone have any ideas on standards based form validation, which is non-obtrusive, however remains accessible? Reason I ask, is that some form validations inject an element say under a form input, explaining the error. Now, without any alerts, how would a blind person / screen reader pick up the fact that the element is now there and read out this error? Has anyone been able to cater for this requirement? Thanks, Anthony. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT
Having worked as both a teacher in higher ed, and in a support role for teachers in higher ed, I have to agree 100% with Andrew. Flash is the devil you know. Teachers use it so they don't have to learn something new. It amazes me how many people still get away with making flash sites, and burning it to a CD, and calling it education. For so many people, just putting an e (can I buy a vowel?) on the start of something still makes it *very* exciting. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Andrew R a_rem...@hotmail.com wrote: A question was asked early in this thread about what are the benefits of using Flash? There's been no answer to that question. I was hoping to learn some answers because I've been confused about why it's become so widely used in eLearning. I think I see several factors but I also think I'm still missing part of the puzzle. Christie Barh – to express my frustration about this general topic. I also agree with most of what you're saying. My first paid web work was developing online learning products in the days before the term eLearning existed (showing my age here). From what you are saying it sounds like the scene has changed little over the last ten years. So from my observation the tide is not turning the whole scene has been riddled with problems since the term got 'eLearning' gained buzz word compliant status. So I have couple of slightly different takes on what you're saying: 1. Teachers/trainers continue to be committed to linear, push methodologies. Plenty of teachers, trainers, training providers, universities, TAFEs, schools, HR areas, etc are essentially lazy and can't be bothered to actually understand learning theory. This is why they 'continue to be committed to linear, push methodologies', it's easy to understand and cheep to develop. Vendor just give the market what they want. 2. Teacher/trainer decision makers don't love the web, possibly because they can't control it. 3. There appears to be broad acceptance of the theories of multiple types of intelligence and different learning styles by teacher/trainers, but no interest in learning how the web has evolved to meet those different needs. So you're saying they hate the web and still don't get it after all these years. In my experience the real reason they hate it is fear; it shows them up to be lazy, sloppy and in the worst cases bad at their jobs. The smart and innovative teachers etc love the web because it is a great tool, full of opportunities and it can be used to work around many of the problems of more traditional media. And now on to a small rant about Flash. I'm with others here – basically I'm perplexed by the implication that Flash is some how cornerstone of good eLearning, esp since so much of it is so bad. And here's the problem and I'm going to make some gross simplification to illustrate my point. Flash is prominently a tool for supporting interaction with certain types of content. It does not enable a whole bunch of other activities that could (should) be included in supporting learning activity, such a peer discussion, collaboration, testing and application of knowledge etc. So while eLearning is predominately seen as Flash then eLearning is should not be viewed as a sound approach to learning. The accessibility issue is a great summary of the problem with Flash; it can be accessible but because it is often done badly it generally isn't. So a good tool often badly used. And this is the reasons I have a problem with Flash... Andrew http://webgovernanceproblems.blogspot.com/ See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia
Okay, so I *should* be concerned about this, in spite of what my common sense tells me. So what can we, as web professionals (in Australia), do about it? I've signed the getup petition. What's the next step? Nedlud. On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 9:05 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am hoping that the live testing/trial that will be carried out early next year just shows that this is technically unfeasible. It is quite stupid to be filtering the internet for everyone in Australia, when it is much simpler to be done on each individual PC through the use of software as the previous Liberal government proposed. Andrew, I think you are miss-understanding how Government works: whether something is practical or not is pretty much never a concern unless they have to do the implementation themselves. In this case, it will be the ISP's that are forced to implement it, not the Gov itself. A similar example is in progress in the UK: the Gov have decided to introduce an 'uncrackable' bio-metric ID card for all citizens. They have been told time and again that it will not work, but this all gets outsourced to other companies, so if it fails then they get the blame, and so it goes ahead, against the wishes of pretty much the whole country. Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia
(Hoping this thread isn't off topic) Isn't this all a storm in a tea cup? Last time I checked, Australia was still a democracy, and while *somebody* must have voted for Conroy, we (Australians) still get a say. But aren't there some serious practical barriers to this? Would ISP's seriously get behind this? Is it even technically feasible to do properly? And will the internet surfing population of Australia get behind it? We have all kinds of talk in the press about getting a high speed network, while at the same time there is talk of this filtering guff *slowing* the our net by up to 80%. What I'm saying is: I don't know how much I care about this issue. Yes, it's shocking that anyone would try this in Australia, but aren't it's chances of getting off the ground about zero? Nedlud. On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Blake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Anthony Ziebell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, it's certainly not spam. It's been all over news, whirlpool, everywhere. Yes, it's definitely real. I feel ashamed of being Australian right there. -- Blake Haswell http://www.blakehaswell.com/ | http://blakehaswell.wordpress.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] CSS and printing absolute units
I need to write a print style sheet and have a particular element on the page print at a specific absolute size (85mm by 35mm). I've set the size using the mm units in the style sheet, but the element is printing at 65mm wide. From what I can see, mm (and cm) are well supported measurements in different browsers, but the results I'm getting in print are not what I need. Does anyone have any advice on how I can get the area to print at the right size? Or am I doomed to failure due to different users printers probably giving different results anyway? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
