[WSG] WebStock
Hi, I just registered for Webstock 2006 in New Zealand. Is anyone else from this list going to make it there? I would be interested in chatting to anyone else who is going. Drop me an email if you can ;-) Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] HELP
www.udm4.com Takes an accessible list and turns it into a menu - can easily be incorporated into PHP. I use it successfully at: http://guild.murdoch.edu.au/ Lloyd On 3/1/06, Al Kendall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Can anyone point me in the right direction < not out the door please :) > to > finding a good PHP Menu / Navigation script? > > -- > Thanks! > > Al Kendall ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check & Footer Question
I seem to have fixed most of the issues and I have gone live with it: http://guild.murdoch.edu.au/ I would still really appreciate a site check though! Lloyd On 12/15/05, Lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I am working on a web site for my Student Guild and I would love some > feedback. It has been done very quickly and a lot of the content is > still being prepared but I have tried to keep standards and > accessibility in mind. > http://www.lloydy.id.au/guilddev/ > > It validates but I would love feedback about whats good, bad and ugly > and what I can do to fix it. I know the menus are a bit dodgy, I tried > to use the Sucerkfish article from ALA as a guide but it isn't working > anywhere near as smoothly as theirs does - especially on different > browsers :-( > > My question relates to the footer of the page. We currently have a > black bar which sits very nicely at the bottom of each page... until > you scroll. It sits there and goes over the content. Without using > frames is there an easy way to either keep it positioned at very > bottom unless the page is longer (We want it visible on short pages > without space below it...). > > Oh and another question (Sorry to be a pain): on pages where there is > not much content like this: > http://www.lloydy.id.au/guilddev/index.php?/representation/evp/ > The white box doesn't flow down below the floated side menu. I know if > I float the main box it will go the right height but then its width > goes whacky and I loose all control over it. > > Thanks in advance! I hope I am not being stupid and there will be ways > to fix these problems :-) > > Regards, > > Lloyd > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser Resolutions
Stephen, A site I maintain is used mainly by lawn mower/hardware shops. It is not uncommon to walk into one and find a network of 5 computers running Windows 95! The computers are far from being up to date but you may find these statistics of some use: http://extremetracking.com/open;sys?login=meyequau The site is (www.mey.com.au). 90% of users are accessing it with Internet Explorer and the resolution is almost exactly divided between 800x600 (@ 43%) and 1024x768 (@ 44%). I hope this helps :-) Lloyd On 12/16/05, Stephen Stagg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I DON'T DESIGN FIXED WIDTH SITES. <-- unless the client really wants it > and they have a good reason > I don't want to scale images until all major browsers support > antialiased or bicubic scaling methods. > I don't want to clip images because I believe that correct proportions > and good cropping is an important presentational technique. > I don't want to read 20 posts from people telling me to use liquid > layouts because that's not an issue in this thread > > I WAS hoping that a couple of kind people might look at their server > logs or stats and read off the resolution and % data for me. > If no-one can do that or is willing to do it then I don't mind, but I > believe that the list does not need another fixed-width vs. liquid debate. > > Thanks > > Stephen. > Christian Montoya wrote: > > I think all your problems would be solved if you stopped designing > > fixed width sites. Or at least most of your problems. I make sites > > that look fine from 640px to 1280px. I use max-width to keep them from > > getting too wide. I never have to think twice about what resolution to > > support. The hard part is dealing with IE, since it doesn't do > > max-width. Sometimes I give IE a fixed width, and sometimes I use > > Javascript to force max-width on it. > > > > A couple of articles on dealing with large images in liquid layouts: > > http://www.clagnut.com/sandbox/imagetest/ > > http://www.michelf.com/weblog/2005/liquid-image/ > > > > -- > > -- > > Christian Montoya > > christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com > > ** > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > > ** > > > > > > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Frames ?
Kevin, Why don't you ask your client this: How would you feel if your site appeared within another sites design with their logo and slogan above your own? I would try to convince him that you can achieve better results with a small page with information about why the linked site is relevant, a small screen shot of what the site looks like and a link to open a new browser window. With the exception of the link in a new window this can all be done with standards in mind and the link is a lot less evil than some frames. Stress that after they close the newly opened window his site will be sitting there behind ;-) HTH Lloyd On 12/16/05, Kevin Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi. I am new to the group and have a question. > > I have a client who wants to set up his business site in such a way that his > logo and "business presence" is always maintained when the client visits a > link to one of the manufacturers that my client represents. > > In other words, the site will have a header, a menu on the left and content > under the header and to the right of the menu area. When a customer clicks > on a link (to a manufacturer site which my client represents) within the > content area, he wants the new web page to open up only in the contents area > and leave his header and menu intact. > > Now, I am not a proponent of frames, but this sounds like frames to me. Is > there a way to do this using Web Standards and CSS (my preference) ? > > If so, are there any examples of this out there ? > > Thanks so much for any help you can give. > > Regards, > KR > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Site Check & Footer Question
Hi Guys, I am working on a web site for my Student Guild and I would love some feedback. It has been done very quickly and a lot of the content is still being prepared but I have tried to keep standards and accessibility in mind. http://www.lloydy.id.au/guilddev/ It validates but I would love feedback about whats good, bad and ugly and what I can do to fix it. I know the menus are a bit dodgy, I tried to use the Sucerkfish article from ALA as a guide but it isn't working anywhere near as smoothly as theirs does - especially on different browsers :-( My question relates to the footer of the page. We currently have a black bar which sits very nicely at the bottom of each page... until you scroll. It sits there and goes over the content. Without using frames is there an easy way to either keep it positioned at very bottom unless the page is longer (We want it visible on short pages without space below it...). Oh and another question (Sorry to be a pain): on pages where there is not much content like this: http://www.lloydy.id.au/guilddev/index.php?/representation/evp/ The white box doesn't flow down below the floated side menu. I know if I float the main box it will go the right height but then its width goes whacky and I loose all control over it. Thanks in advance! I hope I am not being stupid and there will be ways to fix these problems :-) Regards, Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mambo & Accessibility
Guys, Thanks for all the feedback! Backend is important as one of our content providers is blind. Does anyone know much more about Joomla? They are possibly prepared to upgrade (As they see this is just the same thing). I want to know whether its possible to do this with either Mambo or Joomla but I guess otherwise it will need be something else so your suggestions of other good CMS's are welcome! Thanks again. Regards, Lloyd On 12/2/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've never used it myself, but you might want to take a > > look at Joomla. It's compatible with Mambo at this point > > http://www.joomla.org/index.php?Itemid=44&option=com_faq&catid=7 > > and the developers are at least are trying to be compliant > > and accessible > > http://help.joomla.org/content/view/805/125/ > > > > Cheers, > > Steve Ferguson - http://illumit.com/ > > Areas that Joomla is dealing with: > 1) Frontend and backend accessibility considerations > 2) Well formed, semantic code. Minimal cruft. > 3) Appropriate use of markup > 4) Design standards (e.g. looking at W3C Core Styles, what classes we really > need, correct use of classes) > > I say this as part of the Usability and Accessibility Group within Joomla. > Whilst I'm not the actual core dev team, I have been helping out with ideas > and > code architecture. > > Joomla is going in the right direction. It's just not there yet..;) > > Lawrence Meckan > Absalom Media > http:///www.absalom.biz > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Mambo & Accessibility
Hi Guys, I have been asked to work on a web site and Mambo is the current CMS being used. They want to, if possible, keep Mambo as they're CMS but upon inspecting it I am surrounded by tables and poor markup. It does not even seem possible (Without hacking the source) to add ALT text to some images! Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the work is to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblily and hopefully web standards? Is there another CMS that you would mention which may suit my needs? Regards, Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] University textbook or other resources?
The course/major is Internet Computer, a BSc. The unit was run in first semester of this year (2005). I would prefer not to mention the name of the Uni to the list but feel free to add me to MSN ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or ICQ (18618174) and I will discuss it with you or anyone else who is interested. I must say that, to the absolute credit of the lecturer, they have adopted a new xHTML text book for next year, I believe largely due to my feedback. The lecturer, who I met with out of class several times, was largely unaware of the powers of CSS but a visit to pages like CSS Zen Garden really opened her eyes. They were aware of W3C and there was limited discussions about things such as colour blind users and a slide or two about things like screen readers. About a month ago I got an email, out of the blue, to visit her office. She thanked me for our conversations during the year and told me that the unit had adopted an xHTML text book for next year! Then she gave me a brand new copy of the new text book which must be worth over $100! At the end of the day if I had done that unit without my prior knowledge and experience I would never of known of the problems. I would not of said anything and things may not of changed. Lloyd On 11/23/05, Herrod, Lisa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Lloyd, > > can you tell us the university, the course/faculty and the year you did that > course? Just to put it in context. By no means as a way of shaming them into > the present... > > -Original Message- > From: Lloyd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2005 3:11 PM > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > Subject: Re: [WSG] University textbook or other resources? > > > Ted, > > I am not an instructor - I am a University student. For the one web > class I have done so far at University (Doing an Internet Computing > degree at the end of my first year) I was lucky enough to learn HTML > 3. Unclosed and capitalised tags are what this stuff is all about I > was told with authority. And using CSS in the first assignment? No > that is beyond the scope of the assignment (But we were allowed inline > styles in the second assignment). > > Sorry for the sarcasm but I dream of a lecturer covering things like > accessibility, especially with decent books and knowledgeable and > interested tutors :-P > > Lloyd > > On 11/23/05, Ted Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Lloyd, are you an instructor? > > If so, check with the book publishers for instructor test books. I was > able > > to get one of Molly H's books to see if it was appropriate for a class and > > they are happy to send you others. > > > > Zeldman's book isn't accessibility oriented but is a great foundation for > > students. > > > > Ted > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of Lloyd > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 4:42 PM > > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > > Subject: Re: [WSG] University textbook or other resources? > > > > Hi, > > > > Have you considered "Building Accessible Websites" by Joe Clark? You > > can read it for free online. > > http://www.joeclark.org/book/ > > > > :-) > > > > Lloyd > > > > On 11/23/05, ivanovitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Folks > > > > > > I've been asked if there are useful university-focused textbooks or > > > other resources suitable for teaching accessible web design. > > > > > > So far 'Effective website development' (Darlington) and 'Principles of > > > web site design' (Skalr) have been proposed as possible options. > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > ** > > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > > > > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > > > ** > > > > > > > > ** > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > > ** > > > > > > > > ** > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > for some hints on posting to the list
Re: [WSG] University textbook or other resources?
Ted, I am not an instructor - I am a University student. For the one web class I have done so far at University (Doing an Internet Computing degree at the end of my first year) I was lucky enough to learn HTML 3. Unclosed and capitalised tags are what this stuff is all about I was told with authority. And using CSS in the first assignment? No that is beyond the scope of the assignment (But we were allowed inline styles in the second assignment). Sorry for the sarcasm but I dream of a lecturer covering things like accessibility, especially with decent books and knowledgeable and interested tutors :-P Lloyd On 11/23/05, Ted Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Lloyd, are you an instructor? > If so, check with the book publishers for instructor test books. I was able > to get one of Molly H's books to see if it was appropriate for a class and > they are happy to send you others. > > Zeldman's book isn't accessibility oriented but is a great foundation for > students. > > Ted > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Lloyd > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 4:42 PM > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > Subject: Re: [WSG] University textbook or other resources? > > Hi, > > Have you considered "Building Accessible Websites" by Joe Clark? You > can read it for free online. > http://www.joeclark.org/book/ > > :-) > > Lloyd > > On 11/23/05, ivanovitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Folks > > > > I've been asked if there are useful university-focused textbooks or > > other resources suitable for teaching accessible web design. > > > > So far 'Effective website development' (Darlington) and 'Principles of > > web site design' (Skalr) have been proposed as possible options. > > > > Thoughts? > > ** > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > > ** > > > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] University textbook or other resources?
Hi, Have you considered "Building Accessible Websites" by Joe Clark? You can read it for free online. http://www.joeclark.org/book/ :-) Lloyd On 11/23/05, ivanovitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Folks > > I've been asked if there are useful university-focused textbooks or > other resources suitable for teaching accessible web design. > > So far 'Effective website development' (Darlington) and 'Principles of > web site design' (Skalr) have been proposed as possible options. > > Thoughts? > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Perth Meetups
Hi Guys, I only recently joined this list. According to the web site there are quite a few people based in Perth so I was interested to hear if there are any plans for meetups in the future? Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS filesize and selector names
It is a double edged sword. If you split your CSS sheet into multiple sheets for each page then you will only be making the user download what they need, but if they visit all the pages they will probably need to download more in total. That 10k will add about 2 seconds to the initial load of your page on 56k though... The best bet is to make a main style sheet with a specialised style sheet for each page. Lloyd On 11/11/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey folks! > > I'm working on a project where nearly every web page differs from each > other in layout. Due to the nature of the project, it is a blend of admin > and report system, with a lot of configurations and various styled > reports. This has made my CSS file nearly 10kb large and consists of > nearly 600 rows of CSS code. Is this a problem in general? Are there any > issues regarding large CSS files? Any recomendations for CSS file sizes > both in KB and rows. > > This is my first larger project, so maybe it is just me that's not used > to, what I consider extremly large CSS files. > > My second question is about CSS selector naming and problems regarding > various naming styles. Are there any problems with the naming styles below > or is this just something I've got totally wrong? I've heard that you > should avoid underscore and mixing small (lower case) and large letters > (upper case). > > #btn_save > .row_color1 > > #btnSave > #salesTable > > #btnsave (always work, but is just so hard to read) > > Thanks in advance! > > Best regards > Jorgen Nilsson > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Character encoding mismatch
Instead of: Try: This will match what your web server is sending, otherwise change your web server config if you can :-) Lloyd On 11/10/05, Paul Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I am getting the following warning when I validate my pages: > > -- > Character Encoding mismatch! > > The character encoding specified in the HTTP header (iso-8859-1) is > different from the value in the element (utf-8). I will use the value > from the HTTP header (iso-8859-1) for this validation. > > -- > > My header code looks like this, which should validate fine: > > "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";> > http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; xml:lang="en" lang="en"> > > title > > > I have just started reading more about character encoding and special > characters, is my problem that I have used decimal character refereces? For > example > > - as - > > ' as ' > > and so on. I thought this was the correct way to add special characters for > XHTML, but what I am reading now seems to contradict this. This is the part > of standards where I get a bit confused. Does anyone have any advice or know > of some good articles where they explain this in simple terms?? > > Cheers ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Font resizing
Felix, It is an option available on a per article basis I believe: http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/us-condemns-heinous-act-of-terror/2005/11/10/1131407729630.html?oneclick=true At the top right of the article (Near the print and sponsored by HP images) is a small A and a large A. Not very useful. I am going to meet with a legally blind user today (Who still has partial sight) and I may ask them how their screen reader handles it, I wonder if it is read first or after the article and what it says. If it just says A A... *shakes head* Lloyd On 11/10/05, Felix Miata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:08:40 +1100: > > > I just realised how ridiculously little the difference is between "normal" > > and "large" font size on the Sydney Morning Herald. As if that was making > > any difference to the user. It's fairly obvious that that was only put on > > there for the show, not to really make any difference. > > It this the site in question? http://www.smh.com.au/ > > I opened it in a 900x700 window, and could see amoung all the px sized > mousetype nothing that looked like a text resizer. Where do they hide > it? How are people who need it supposed to find it? That begs the > question, when starting with mousetype, how is anyone who needs a > resizer going to recognize if there is one there, much less how it > works? If sites would simply use the user default in the first place, > then few would have any use for a resizer on the page, since "too big" > for any web designer is going to be adequate for most such people > whether they know how to set their own defaults or not. > -- > "I can do all things through Him who gives me strength." > Philippians 4:13 NIV > > Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 > > Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/ > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Font resizing
In my opinion you should make it accessible to begin with, and then provide options (Or allow users to change with their browser tools) to let it suit users needs. It was amazing the positive feedback I received when I styled a RSS feed for a blog so that the blog titles were IMO really huge (Around 20pt) and the text was also huge (Around 16pt). But apparently it made it easier to use than the actual blog styled in HTML/CSS! I made the change so the blogs site was in the same format as the RSS feed with a comment on the blog about how to make the font smaller with your browser and nobody complained :-) Something to think about: Do we provide accessible content to begin with or do we provide ways for a user to make the content accessible? Lloyd On 11/10/05, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From my experience there are a lot of people who have got a vision > impairment, yet do not use Magnifiers or don't know how to manually change > the browser font size. If you think about it - a "vision impairment" could > be just caused by old age or even tiredness. Just because somebody has got > slight difficulties reading small font doesn't mean they go off and buy > themselves a Screen Magnifier. And in particular older people might not know > how modify their browsers to increase the font size. > > Having said that - the stylesheet swapping links on websites (such as on the > Sydney Morning Herald) are very often so user-unfriendly, they end up being > completely useless. I mean: how many people will guess that a small "A" will > decrease the font size on your browser, a larger "A" will increase it? In > particular for people who do have a vision impairment, that's not the > easiest functionality to detect and use. If you introduce such features, > make them obvious. And if possible, write them in BIG FONT. :) > > That's my two cents. > > Cheers, > > Andreas. > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of David McKinnon > Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 12:49 PM > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > Subject: [WSG] Font resizing > > I was just wondering what everyone's opinion of font resizing using > stylesheet swapping? > I'm wondering if it's still useful given that it's useless to people using > screen readers, people with vision impairment will probably be more likely > to us a screen magnifier, and others can use their browser's own font sizing > -- command-+ and so on. > I notice that the Sydney Morning Herald's new design font resizing, but > offers just two font sizes: normal and bigger and only for some pages. > Any thoughts? > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > > > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [OT] Re: [WSG] FIR "deprecated" [WAS: A rave about 's]
On 19 Mar 2004, at 07:37, Jeremy Flint wrote: Read Dave Shea's summary of the CSS: Good/Bad/Ugly panel. he also wrote that Doug Bowman officially depricated FIR. It's funny that it can be officially depricated in this manner - I was in the panel at the time and though: "My God! I wonder how many bloggers would be itching to report that one?" The hack is dead! Long live the hack! Heh, I'm just f***in' wit ya! PS - Jeremy, weren't you at SXSW? We never met, but I'm sure I clocked the name badge though ;-) Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ -- Disclaimer: I am currently travelling and connect to the Internet sporadically. As such, much of what I write offline may be days (or more) old when it gets sent, hence the content may have been superceded by other people's emails. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] dreamweaver
On 18 Mar 2004, at 09:41, Jeremy Flint wrote: how many are successfully using the WYSIWYG on a consistent basis and doing standards compliant work? Sooner or later, you have to get into the code. I have used DWMX for a long time and managed to keep standards up to par, but mainly because I have done most of the hand-coding first in another editor (HomeSite/BBEdit); then I use DW for it's templating/site management facilities. Thereafter, if all I'm using it for is to enter/amend text in areas that I've defined as editable, it's great. DW is not the quickest editor for markup, but overall I think it does an excellent job of creating standards-based markup - better than any other wysiwyg editor that I can think of, anyway Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ -- Disclaimer: I am currently travelling and connect to the Internet sporadically. As such, much of what I write offline may be days (or more) old when it gets sent, hence the content may have been superceded by other people's emails. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] A rave about 's
On 19 Mar 2004, at 01:24, Jeremy Flint wrote: I do believe that he said "officially", not really speaking for himself, but for the CSS community that supported that method as a whole. It was just a turn of phrase - using the language of specs and such like (and yes he did say those exact words), but really what he was saying was this: "As of this day, I'm no longer gonna push FIR because frankly we opened a can of worms ... unless someone can figure a way to get those worms back in that can." Actually, it's probably better what he said ;-) Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ -- Disclaimer: I am currently travelling and connect to the Internet sporadically. As such, much of what I write offline may be days (or more) old when it gets sent, hence the content may have been superceded by other people's emails. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Next Sydney meeting - a fantastic guest presenter
On 19 Mar 2004, at 00:43, russ weakley wrote: The next Sydney meeting has been moved back from the 8th to the 15th April to avoid the Easter long weekend. If I'm still in Sidders, I'll come along, but I think I'll be somewhere near Melbourne or NZ by then :-( I mean, for missing the meeting otherwise I'm more :-) Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ -- Disclaimer: I am currently travelling and connect to the Internet sporadically. As such, much of what I write offline may be days (or more) old when it gets sent, hence the content may have been superceded by other people's emails. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] css from photoshop file?
On 19 Mar 2004, at 10:18, Mike Brown wrote: Off the top of my head, some things you may need to sort out with the designer: :: is it a fluid or fixed-width layout? :: do you use fonts or images for navigation? :: do elements on the page have to be exactly the pixels apart shown in the design, or do you have some flexibility there? :: is it clear from the design what elements are heading elements - h1, h2, etc? HTH Some excellent tips, Mike. These are /exactly/ the kinds of things that need to be considered. In addition, are there any more mock-ups that can be provided that show other eventualities, such as: * What about when you have a lower-level heading? * What to do when content overflows what appears to be a predefined area - scrolling? Where do the stretches take place? There are probably tonnes more of these but they've probably already been addressed by the list. The main thing was to say bravo for the points mentioned above. Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ -- Disclaimer: I am currently traveling and connect to the Internet sporadically. As such, much of what I write offline may be days (or more) old when it gets sent, hence the content may have been superseded by other people's emails. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] css from photoshop file?
On 19 Mar 2004, at 09:52, Mark Stanton wrote: Tip #1 - make sure the psd files come from a designer that understands CSS. Good luck, there aren't many of them ;-) Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ -- Disclaimer: I am currently traveling and connect to the Internet sporadically. As such, much of what I write offline may be days (or more) old when it gets sent, hence the content may have been superseded by other people's emails. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list
On 9 Mar 2004, at 21:21, Paul Ross wrote: The trouble with this list - and the people on it - is that you are all too helpful and friendly. I am also a member of the Webesign-L.com list and would never post there because the list-mom and most of the members seem to be arrogant elitist techno-fascists who sneer and chide those of us further down the learning curve. Ahh, so you're friends with Steven Champeon then? Heh ;-) I know what you mean though. Trouble is, it can easily happen with WSG list - all it takes is time and people will learn more, ask more complicated questions and attempt to show how clever they are by posting complicated 'helpful' answers. That's the trouble with discussion lists the world over.. Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Accessibility checkers for Mac (OS X)
On 9 Mar 2004, at 14:08, Paul Ross wrote: You can download the free web developers toolbar extension for Mozilla and Firefox browsers which has a handy quick link to the Bobby WCAG 1.0 and Bobby 508 accessibility checker. You can get it here: Yeah, got that - I guess I'm being greedy, as I want a standalone - as in no internet connection required - application like Web XM for the Mac ... Alas, it will never happen :-) Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] A few questions needing answers
On 6 Mar 2004, at 11:26, Universal Head wrote: Forms on Websites Is there a good place that explains/makes available the coding involved for putting simple forms on sites? My programming knowledge doesn't go beyond css, xhtml and using JavaScript nuggets, but I've always wanted to be able to put contact forms on my sites. Two suggestions: 1) If you want a quick-and-dirty way of processing form data without having to learn or implement a server-side technology, go to www.cutandpastescripts.com. There you can sign up for an account for free, then build the form data that needs to be sent. It's dead easy to do 2) If you want to make the forms accessible, there is a form builder (actually, two different versions) at Accessify that you could try out: http://www.accessify.com/tools-and-wizards/default.asp Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Bobby question
On 7 Mar 2004, at 12:40, Peter Firminger wrote: Having said that, something like: will still work ok as the default behaviour of the href will generally be used anyway. I would advise a couple of changes: - onClick becomes onclick for xhtml compliance - don't have the url in two places (can make future updates tricky, and may mean that link checkers don't highlight a broken link, e.g if you change the href part but not the onclick part), so use this.href in the onclick part Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] A few questions needing answers
On 6 Mar 2004, at 13:14, Michael Kear wrote: I can’t see what difference it makes to them whether you have absolute or relative links. On advantage of using link instead of link is that if the page the link is on gets moved to another location on the files system - and you forget to link-check - the link will still be good to go. That's one small advantage, and I tend to use that even if it does add a few characters to the HTML sent to the client. Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Bobby question
On 6 Mar 2004, at 21:44, Martin Chapman wrote: I was finding it bit daunting, since the site I am re-coding is based on ASP.NET, and as I am sure many of you know... Microsoft + ASP.NET + web = 666 Reall, what we need is a book that explains how to achieve acceptable levels of accessibility using tools/technologies like ASP.net and (deep breath) FrontPage. There are a lot of sites built by admin type bods using FrontPage because, well, it's cheap or comes as part of a standard desktop software install for come corporates. it's there so it gets used and we know what the end result is. I'm not sure if such a book exists at this time, but I believe that Molly Holzschlag (who's written some 15 or so books on the web and is a WaSP member) was working on something like this some time back. Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] Accessibility checkers for Mac (OS X)
While I was looking at some of the traffic here, I thought I'd ask if anyone is aware of any downloadable tool for Mac OS X to check accessibility in any way? I doubt such a thing exists. I used to have Web XM (as Watchfire's desktop-based app) which was very handy but have long since said goodbye to that since migrating to Mac. If it doesn't exist, it'd be a great thing to go away and invent ... if only I knew the first thing about writing apps for the Mac, heh ;-) Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Email Standards?
On 5 Mar 2004, at 02:31, Lorenzo Gabba | Quirk wrote: I realise this may not be 100% relevant to this discussion group, but is there some kind of standard for email html design? Not sure how much help this will be (am offline at the moment) but the topic was covered here: http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/26822 Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Bobby question
On 6 Mar 2004, at 20:44, russ weakley wrote: Here are some other online accessibility tools: .. and if I may be so bold, you might find some of these useful (and there's a pop-up window generator there too): http://www.accessify.com/tools-and-wizards/default.asp Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
