Re: [WSG] The head of the document
Good question—I’d like to see what some other responses are. Even with the advent of HTML5 I’m still firmly in the XHTML 1.0 Strict camp currently and typically add to the head you illustrated: • meta http-equiv=content-language content= / • link rel=license href= / …along with a few other meta tags for author(s), designer(s), developer(s), description and keywords. Kind regards. —Pascal On 23/07/2009, at 10:14 PM, Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I'm just curious to know what other people do these days with the header of their document? What is best practice for: - Good search engine rankings - Best charset for English text (utf-8, right?) - Do we need robots - all anymore? - Any Accessibility issues? (Can't think of any) - Does anyone bother with descriptions, keywords anymore? - Dublin Core metadata, is that a forgotten fad?! I'll show you an example of how I setup a standard page, please anyone offer what they think is best practice, or perhaps send any useful links: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xmlns:v=urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml xml:lang=en lang=en head meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=utf-8/ meta http-equiv=Content-Language content=en-us/ titleTITLE/title meta name=ROBOTS content=ALL/ meta http-equiv=imagetoolbar content=no/ meta name=MSSmartTagsPreventParsing content=true/ link rel=stylesheet href=STYLESHEET type=text/css media=all/ /head Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mail: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private. Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] working with line-height
Line-height (leading) is measured from baseline[1] to baseline rather
than from the ‘end’ of a glyph the the ‘tip’ of another. It is
essentially impossible to align ‘perfectly’ the top of say an
uppercase character to a horizontal line above it in CSS because of
this, and because many uppercase glyphs often are ‘shorter’ than
lowercase ascender glyphs (e.g. ‘h’ in ‘The’ will often be taller than
the capital ‘T’; here the ‘h’ reaches the topline)—this occurs notably
in serif typefaces. It is also important to note that optically size
12 Arial may not be the same as another font at size 12, and thus can
also apply for the standard leading when size and leading are set at
1:1.
Finally differing font raster/sub pixel engines will render type
differently (contrast ClearText with Apple’s engine and Apple Advanced
Typography (AAT)).
I think here I would have to echo either Matijs’ comment regarding the
pixel-perfect designs on the web or, alternatively, in aligning the
top of a word or phrase to a horizontal line (say a to ‘hang’ from a
coloured shape above it) just place it up high enough that even if
another font or engine were used it’ll be overlapping with the shape
enough to avoid dropping out of it due to some rendering or alternate
font. For an example of this see the text “17 Ottobre ’09” on http://uxcamp.it/
— it’s Helvetica Neue Bold and switching to Arial still keeps it
looking spiffy. (:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseline_%28typography%29
Kind regards.
—Pascal
On 03/07/2009, at 8:56 AM, Paul Novitski wrote:
At 7/1/2009 07:19 PM, Ben Lau wrote:
This is what I'm trying to achieve: http://hellobenlau.net/wsg/eg.gif
http://hellobenlau.net/wsg/eg.gif
So there'll be a div with padding top and bottom of 20px, and with
text inside.
This doesn't look to me like a line-height topic at all. If you
increase the line-height, the lines of text within each paragraph
will separate from one another, and that isn't what your gif
illustrates. It looks more like a (default) line-height of 1.
Instead, this looks like a simple matter of applying padding
margins to the wrapper div its paragraphs.
Now, if we're to take your gif literally, it looks like you've got
17px between the two paragraphs. That implies:
div
{
padding-top: 20px;
padding-bottom: 3px;
}
div p
{
margin-bottom: 17px;
}
div
20px
psome text/p
17px
psome more text/p
17px
3px
/div
Regards,
Paul
__
Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com
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Re: [WSG] converting CSS and XHTML to PDFs
That results in an image sitting inside a PDF; the text is rendered inaccessible, and the file size of the document will be increased substantially. —Pascal On 31/03/2009, at 1:08 AM, Darren Lovelock wrote: Do a image screenshot using print screen and then convert that to PDF? Darren Lovelock Munky Online Web Design http://www.munkyonline.co.uk T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893 From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of agerasimc...@unioncentral.com Sent: 30 March 2009 14:30 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: li...@webstandardsgroup.org; wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] converting CSS and XHTML to PDFs I have a problem converting my web pages, which are CSS driven into PDFs (users usually do Right Click - convert page to PDF) - they need to send those pages for client approval in the PDF format. The pages in PDF display very poorly, not all CSS images are displayed, CSS formatting is completely off... Does anybody have any idea, what's the best approach to tame the CSS pages and convert them to PDF? Thank you! Anya V. Gerasimchuk Web Designer, IT - Web Shared Services UNIFI Information Technology agerasimc...@unioncentral.com (513) 595 -2391 anthony.hawk...@ssc.govt.nz Sent by: li...@webstandardsgroup.org 02/01/2009 02:52 PM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject [WSG] WCAG2.0 summary Hi there - WebAim just released a good summarised guide to WCAG2, a lot easier for the newbie to get their head around. http://webaim.org/standards/wcag/checklist cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mail: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private. Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(
Sorry—got carried away. (: On 30/01/2009, at 4:43 PM, William Donovan wrote: Hang on, did I miss something or is this completely OT (off topic). Bible's, Gutenberg, print type faces... Web Standards...? William Donovan mobile: 0403 263 284 --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mai: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(
On 29/01/2009, at 11:39 PM, James Jeffery wrote: Guys thanks for the response. I hit the sac last night at nearly 6am and was very pissed off, with myself for failing the job. I'm all good now though because at the end of the day it wasn't really my doing. The guy that passed me the work does front-end development all day, I thought it was strange why he passed on the work to me. Now I see why ... because it was a bloody mess. I’d expect clean, accessible, and semantic code from a front-end developer. Bah—sorry to hear you had such a negative experience. I think we all end up taking a bite from the sour end of the pie at some point in our profession, and, in the end I guess the best thing to do is consider it an experience worth not repeating and learning from it. Regards. —Pascal Anyway. I can't say who it is, but it's a cable/sat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mai: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(
On 30/01/2009, at 4:16 AM, Fred Ballard wrote: I've read that the Gutenberg bible is formatted without spaces. It's interesting that they aren't essential to reading. I believe this is due to the inherent markings of the tops and bottoms of the glyphs, particularly the lowercase glyphs. B42s were all set with a very Germanic textura blackletter which feature strong diamond- shaped markings that allowed the eye to follow the line of these markings. Further, back then with the cost of paper and vellum it was entirely uneconomical and even more expensive to print (or write) with what we today consider an ample leading (line-height). In addition Gutenberg let his hyphens lie in the margins (what we know as hanging punctuation) further adding to the blocky, well-defined lines. In fact, the reason why serif typefaces are easier to read (at least when printed—it is true that at small sizes on screen and with poor hinting serif typefaces quickly become more difficult to read); it is the serifs or ‘little feet’ on glyphs that allow our eye to dance in saccades along a line by telling us where that glyph starts and ends in the vertical space. Add all the characters up, particularly the lowercase ones, and the eye will follow all the serifs forming a concise line. I've also read that it's all uniformly blocked out with so many characters to a line, so many lines to a column, two columns to a page, and ending with a full page. In a sense, one of first books (it isn't actually the first) ever printed was the most perfectly formatted ever. Indeed. Gutenberg’s first bible (actually a Gutenberg Bible consists of two volumes, each 1280-odd pages: Old Testament, and part of the New Testament with the second continuing where the first let off—they were divided again because of economical reasons), and the rest of the series that followed (180 in total I believe), were divided into two columns, spanning mostly 42 lines. Kind regards. —Pascal On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Simon Pascal Klein kle...@klepas.org wrote: On 30/01/2009, at 2:15 AM, kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk wrote: Join the club, I've been commissioned to do a local website and the guy was hoping he'd be able to get a quick bug-fix on his current with a bit of updating. Unfortuanetly the css was akin to the Guttenberg Bible; completely unreadable and would have been a pig to translate. Not to mention, a strange and chaotic mishmash of tables, frames and weird proprietary software markup. Some clients (and this one did, thank god) need to realize that when the original is written by a back street bedroom I can do that wannabe, they're paying for someone who can stick a few words and pics up and not much else. Wel, I for one, relish at the idea of getting my hands on a Gutenburg Bible and reading it… well analysing the lettering and type rather, but hey. :-) From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: 29 January 2009 14:13 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :( [...] --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mai: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mai: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: Users who deliberately disable JavaScript
Comments inline: On 27/01/2009, at 7:33 AM, Jessica Enders wrote: Hi Pascal In the JavaScript/Accessibility/form validation discussion you mention the growing number of users who purposefully disable JavaScript. I'm always curious just how many people this is. Do you, or does anyone else, have any statistics on this? Is there a reason you describe it as a growing number? Any information greatly appreciated. No, I don’t have access to any statistics on the matter. I want to clarify that my comment does not address the growing number of new Internet users who most likely will have JavaScript turned on or the majority of users in a holistic sense. I don’t think the users that disable JS are a majority but I definitely think they are on the rise as many security experts are recommending JS to be disabled by default. Whether or not JS-disabled users are a statistic worth noting should not be in question here. I think Anthony Ziebell puts it best: “JavaScript should be implemented only to supplement / layer existing functionality. Your site should operate just fine without it… There are always exceptions to this rule however you shouldn’t let JavaScript dictate how you code.” Kind regards. —Pascal Cheers Jessica Enders Principal Formulate Information Design http://formulate.com.au Phone: (02) 6116 8765 Fax: (02) 8456 5916 PO Box 5108 Braddon ACT 2612 On 19/01/2009, at 11:14 PM, Simon Pascal Klein wrote: If there were further communication between the user and server between submission of the form that would entail a page reload then a screen user shouldn’t have an issue, whereas if JavaScript would run in the background and inject errors or suggestions as it thinks the user makes them (e.g. password complexity recommendations, username not available messages) numerous accessibility issues arise. The only solution that came to mind was having a generic message (such as ‘please fill out all marked (*) fields’ or the like) that could be hidden using CSS and through JavaScript ‘unhidden’ when an error appears (though it could only be a generic error). As dandy as these automatic feedback and error messages are through JavaScript maybe a full submission and subsequent page reload is best—after all it’s impossible to tell those users using an accessibility aid like a screen reader from those who do not, and hey, the growing number of users who purposefully disable JavaScript won’t see the glitzy JavaScript injected errors anyway. Just my 0.2¢. On 19/01/2009, at 5:52 PM, Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Isn't 'aria-required' a non-standard attribute? Sadly, yes. But there is some hope: it is possible that ARIA will be accepted in HTML5 and there is an initiative to provide validation for (X)HTML+ARIA: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2008Sep/0381.html Validator.nu already has experimental support for HTML5+ARIA, and I believe (did not check) http://qa-dev.w3.org/wmvs/HEAD/ provides the same for document type HTML5. There is also a possibility to add ARIA attributes with Javascript. All the options are controversial, but that's how it is for now :( Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mai: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Helpful Criticism and Browser test plz
Text resizing breaks the layout quickly and there are a number of textual elements within images—why not make these plain text instead to be styled with CSS? (Notably the phone number and the ‘based in east Lanc?shire’—I can’t actually properly decipher the blurred text in the image—graphical texts should be avoided where possible.) The little flash module only has an animation in the first 20-odd seconds of its instance and then remains static (or maybe I need to wait a little longer for it to get going again). Could this just be text that’s animated with some JavaScript (if animation is at all required)? In smaller browser windows this part of website would be ‘below the fold’ anyway and out of sight before scrolling. —Pascal On 22/01/2009, at 2:00 AM, Dave Westell wrote: Hi all, Just got my latest project to validate XHTML Strict, and just wanted any helpful criticism and also to see if any problems with any Browsers and Operating Systems . http://www.clock-this.co.uk/ Thanks in advance.. Dave.. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility
I thought a bit more about this and I realised perhaps a better option would be to display the JS-injected messages and errors that a screen reader could not read but upon submission of the form, reload the page and provide all the messages and errors again (the form could not be completed anyway due to the errors; where else would to send the user to?). This way users browsing with an accessibility aid like a screen reader would not see the injected errors which are a nifty feature but still be presented with them upon submission of the form and the page reload. Why I didn’t think of this earlier is beyond me. D’oh. —Pascal On 20/01/2009, at 12:57 PM, james.duc...@gmail.com wrote: after all it's impossible to tell those users using an accessibility aid like a screen reader from those who do not, and hey, the growing number of users who purposefully disable JavaScript won't see the glitzy JavaScript injected errors anyway. Agreed, and any decent validation is going to be done server-side validation anyway, so you're going to have to (or at least you should) implement the server-side responses in any case. - James -- James Ducker Web Developer http://www.studioj.net.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility
If there were further communication between the user and server between submission of the form that would entail a page reload then a screen user shouldn’t have an issue, whereas if JavaScript would run in the background and inject errors or suggestions as it thinks the user makes them (e.g. password complexity recommendations, username not available messages) numerous accessibility issues arise. The only solution that came to mind was having a generic message (such as ‘please fill out all marked (*) fields’ or the like) that could be hidden using CSS and through JavaScript ‘unhidden’ when an error appears (though it could only be a generic error). As dandy as these automatic feedback and error messages are through JavaScript maybe a full submission and subsequent page reload is best—after all it’s impossible to tell those users using an accessibility aid like a screen reader from those who do not, and hey, the growing number of users who purposefully disable JavaScript won’t see the glitzy JavaScript injected errors anyway. Just my 0.2¢. On 19/01/2009, at 5:52 PM, Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Isn't 'aria-required' a non-standard attribute? Sadly, yes. But there is some hope: it is possible that ARIA will be accepted in HTML5 and there is an initiative to provide validation for (X)HTML+ARIA: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2008Sep/0381.html Validator.nu already has experimental support for HTML5+ARIA, and I believe (did not check) http://qa-dev.w3.org/wmvs/HEAD/ provides the same for document type HTML5. There is also a possibility to add ARIA attributes with Javascript. All the options are controversial, but that's how it is for now :( Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT
On 11/01/2009, at 4:08 PM, James Ducker wrote: Ultimately teachers should aim to teach the skills that are required of students entering the industry. The TAFE students I tutor in Sydney are being taught XHTML, XML, CSS table-free layouts, and so on, so not a bad start. The JavaScript courses look like they could use some improvement (see below). I think the biggest shortcoming though is that students are being taught the skills with no context, i.e. they are not taught how to further perpetuate their skills, which is an important shortcoming in an industry that evolves so rapidly. On a side note, my personal opinion on web media courses focusing on rich web content is that they should still entail the bare basics of HTML, XHTML, and CSS, with a toe-dip into JavaScript. These technologies are so fundamental to the web, and given their role as standards they should be part of any web-related courses. One of the most consistent problems I encounter when tutoring students is that a toe-dip into JavaScript simply doesn't work. JS is a fully-fledged OO scripting language, and as such in order to teach it properly a grassroots introduction to OO concepts is necessary. The course seems to have improved in the last year or so, in that they are teaching more current applications of JS, but that's about it. Web development courses should definitely include JS, but for the media-rich courses, such as the new media arts design courses that dabble in the web as a presentation medium, I think the bare basics of JS should suffice—sorry; that’s what I meant. (: —Pascal - James On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Simon Pascal Klein kle...@klepas.org wrote: On 10/01/2009, at 6:50 AM, Matt Morgan-May wrote: Hi, Excuse me for jumping in here, especially (in this case) as a Flash partisan. But I fail to see how this kind of project can be anything other than a good thing overall. What I don't understand is why people are instantly critical of projects that are actually attempting to increase access to new technology. I've heard a constant drumbeat of don't use Flash: it's inaccessible in the years I've been involved in the field. But if we don't have people pushing that envelope, doesn't that make that statement self-fulfilling prophecy? There are lots of us out there working on improving the accessibility of both existing and future content authored in Flash. There are many arguments to be made for HTML -- I made loads of them while working for W3C, all of which I would stand by today -- but it is not all things to all people. The fact is that many educators have found that they can use Flash to teach their students effectively. I'm not an educator by profession, but my wife is, and she prefers Flash over HTML/CSS/JS to develop her courseware. If you were to tell her she's wrong, especially before seeing what kind of work she does, I think you'd probably find yourself dodging a couple shelves' worth of education texts. Telling a professional their tools are wrong is not the most endearing of approaches. In my opinion, the best one can do is to learn what they're doing, and offer ways to make that output more efficient, more inclusive, and easier to produce. Teachers aren't usually web developers, and we shouldn't want them to be. So I'm all for companies taking on the technical problems so teachers can be teachers, and so on. Ultimately teachers should aim to teach the skills that are required of students entering the industry. It's not uncommon that many secondary and tertiary IT and web media courses are grossly outdated. From my experience this is mostly attributed to the teacher's education in the field which they received when they did their tertiary education in order to teach, and have since not remained up to date with new developments and sadly even standards. Money and a requirement to regularly attend courses to keep educators up to date help in this regard but nothing beats personal interest—the high school IT teacher that in their own time is actively involved in his or her field will be more likely to teach his students about the latest relevant and exciting bleeding edge technologies. On a side note, my personal opinion on web media courses focusing on rich web content is that they should still entail the bare basics of HTML, XHTML, and CSS, with a toe-dip into JavaScript. These technologies are so fundamental to the web, and given their role as standards they should be part of any web-related courses. Just my 2¢. Thanks for raising this topic. (: —Pascal Thanks, M Accessibility Engineer, Adobe Christie Mason said: Exactly right. I've sadly watched Flash take over eLearning and still haven't figured out the attraction, except that it offers the control of PPT while appearing to be rich.There's only a very few types of web sites that still use Flash
Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT
On 10/01/2009, at 6:50 AM, Matt Morgan-May wrote: Hi, Excuse me for jumping in here, especially (in this case) as a Flash partisan. But I fail to see how this kind of project can be anything other than a good thing overall. What I don't understand is why people are instantly critical of projects that are actually attempting to increase access to new technology. I've heard a constant drumbeat of don't use Flash: it's inaccessible in the years I've been involved in the field. But if we don't have people pushing that envelope, doesn't that make that statement self-fulfilling prophecy? There are lots of us out there working on improving the accessibility of both existing and future content authored in Flash. There are many arguments to be made for HTML -- I made loads of them while working for W3C, all of which I would stand by today -- but it is not all things to all people. The fact is that many educators have found that they can use Flash to teach their students effectively. I'm not an educator by profession, but my wife is, and she prefers Flash over HTML/CSS/JS to develop her courseware. If you were to tell her she's wrong, especially before seeing what kind of work she does, I think you'd probably find yourself dodging a couple shelves' worth of education texts. Telling a professional their tools are wrong is not the most endearing of approaches. In my opinion, the best one can do is to learn what they're doing, and offer ways to make that output more efficient, more inclusive, and easier to produce. Teachers aren't usually web developers, and we shouldn't want them to be. So I'm all for companies taking on the technical problems so teachers can be teachers, and so on. Ultimately teachers should aim to teach the skills that are required of students entering the industry. It’s not uncommon that many secondary and tertiary IT and web media courses are grossly outdated. From my experience this is mostly attributed to the teacher’s education in the field which they received when they did their tertiary education in order to teach, and have since not remained up to date with new developments and sadly even standards. Money and a requirement to regularly attend courses to keep educators up to date help in this regard but nothing beats personal interest—the high school IT teacher that in their own time is actively involved in his or her field will be more likely to teach his students about the latest relevant and exciting bleeding edge technologies. On a side note, my personal opinion on web media courses focusing on rich web content is that they should still entail the bare basics of HTML, XHTML, and CSS, with a toe-dip into JavaScript. These technologies are so fundamental to the web, and given their role as standards they should be part of any web-related courses. Just my 2¢. Thanks for raising this topic. (: —Pascal Thanks, M Accessibility Engineer, Adobe Christie Mason said: Exactly right. I've sadly watched Flash take over eLearning and still haven't figured out the attraction, except that it offers the control of PPT while appearing to be rich.There's only a very few types of web sites that still use Flash for delivering primary content - media sites, those that focus more on look at me instead of being a resource to their site guests, and eLearning. Since, supposedly, eLearning is about offering web based resources for learning it just doesn't make sense to me that it has ignored all the ways the web has supported, continues to support, learning w/o using Flash. Flash on the web is like cooking with garlic. A little adds depth, a lot is inedible. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Chrome and Safari render the same...or do they?
I think this comes down more to which font rasterisation engine a
system is using. I don’t think Safari on Windows for example has full
access to AAT and Quartz and thus will render type using ClearType and
GDI on Windows. Add Firefox into the mix which uses Cairo and you’ll
get different results again, which are easily visible (for example)
when comparing how Firefox using Cairo and ATSUI renders fonts that
don’t have their own small-capitals and thus must downsize capitals to
a small-cap scale (traditionally the x-height of the face) and how
Safari handles the same thing. (Safari, I find does this better—a good
font to test this with is Georgia which sadly lacks proper real small-
capitals.)
To fix layout issues with content running outside your boxes use
absolute, fixed and relative positioning instead of floats, eg:
div#container {
position: relative;
width: 100%;
}
div.content_primary {
width: 60%;
left: 0;
}
div.content_secondary {
width: 40%;
left: 60%;
}
This way you can also quickly switch your columns around without
touching your markup; add absolute positioning to the column that
appears first in the markup (likely to be content_primary) and swap
the left property indent.
Hope any of this helps.
—Pascal
On 08/01/2009, at 4:36 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote:
Hi experts,
I'm running into big rendering differences between Google Chrome and
Safari 3.1/PC. They are said to render pages the same, given that
they're using the same Webkit engine.
The differences seem to be mainly due to the different font rendering.
Safari's fonts are way smaller, hence my boxes are smaller and shift
up,
breaking the layout.
Anyone knows why this is so? Is there a workaround, i.e. a Safari-only
CSS hack?
Cheers,
Jens
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Re: [WSG] pos- relative or margin?
Using top and left properties in positioning is fine; using rel, pos+, and absolute positioning for columns can actually be better than using floats in that objects that expand past the width of a floated object will not disrupt the layout of the page by bumping nearby floats down the normal flow of the document. —Pascal On 08/01/2009, at 9:26 PM, Naveen Bhaskar wrote: Hi, I want to know which is the best method. I have seen a page where all the divs are positioned with position relative and with top , bottom attributes instead of margin.. Is this a good method? There is no browser compatibility issues while using this where as when using margin properties IE has probelms.. Pls advice. thanks and regards Naveen Bhaskar Bangalore Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] issues with too many divs
Using too much markup just for styling purposes isn’t recommended. I find that using adjacent sibling and child selectors usually helps avoid a large case of multi-div-itis. —Pascal On 07/01/2009, at 4:35 PM, Ben Lau wrote: Hi all, I'm not a fan of having too many DIVs on a page, but due to complicated background designs, I'm forced to use additional wrapper DIVs just to achieve the look. Are there any major downfall in doing so apart from increasing page size? I'd like to be able to convince our designer to simplify the design... Thanks *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Fonts
On 17/12/2008, at 3:43 PM, Conyers, Dwayne wrote:
Marvin Hunkin [startrekc...@gmail.com] ink wired:
why and how can i display the other fonts on my site?
Are you using font face=foo tags in your HTML code? Then, those
fonts should appear *unless* they are not on your (or the people
surfing to your web site) system.
If you want to embed fonts that others may not have, Google terms
like “free fonts” or “downloadable fonts” (check to make sure they
can be embedded) and then embed the font with code like this:
STYLE TYPE=text/css
--!
@font-face {
font-family: Arial;
font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;
src:url(http://www.foobar.com/EOTfileName.eot);
}
--
/STYLE
For which one needs WEFT, Windows and licensing permissions to embed
the font. I’d suggest you link additional fonts if they are central to
your design and are not web core fonts as linked OTF files—no
converting to EOT necessary. Note EOT is currently only supported by
IE whilst OTF linking is supported in latest Safari as well as Firefox
(and Opera IIRC) devel. versions. There are a number of great free
fonts available for linking listed at http://www.webfonts.info/wiki/index.php?title=Fonts_available_for_%40font-face_embedding
Ultimately, you’re best off sticking to the web core fonts. To blow
some life back into them and make them look a bit merrier than the
boring reputation many give them play with styling like font-variant
for small-caps, letter-spacing, font-style for the italic and various
sizes and colours. (:
—Pascal
Hope that helps.
--
ariston men hudor
http://blog.dwacon.com
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Re: [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
Moinmoin, I’m not out of the office and will be here to read all the ‘out of the office’ messages all over the festive season. :-) —Pascal On 13/12/2008, at 1:08 AM, Griffiths, Lynne wrote: I am out of the office until Monday 12 January 2009. For any communication and media issues please contact Amanda Forman - T 02 6102 6013, M 0434 079590 or email amanda.for...@nwc.gov.au. --- This email from the National Water Commission (NWC), and any attachments to it, contain information that is confidential and may also be the subject of legal professional or other privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not review, copy, disseminate, disclose to others or take action in reliance of, any material contained within this email. If you have received this email in error, please let the NWC know by reply email to the sender informing them of the mistake and delete all copies from your computer system. For the purposes of the Spam Act 2003, this email is authorised by the NWC www.nwc.gov.au --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] icons for navigation - was positioning help needed
On 12/12/2008, at 2:33 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote: ebiz wrote Your problem is the sidebar, you need to make the position of it relative, then the footer will pop underneath it. To keep the sidebar liquid just float it to the right and use em's for the height, width etc. Thats a good solution. Thanks for the feedback everyone, especially the great linky links. Im taking a close look at css blueprint grid and the css gala examples. BTW whats the wsg consensus about using icons in nav menus? I recently read an article that basically said if you take the text away most icons in nav menus become useless. Also they are quite time consuming to create I think they can be good for portal sites but thats about it. For application interfaces, icons can aid experienced users who begin to associate functions and sections of the application with the visual metaphors of the icons, rather than the text. Regarding text, I would recommend for main navigational items to accompany icons with text, if icons are desired. There are a number of good freely available icon sets and resources out there, e.g. the Tango Desktop Project’s icons, which are currently being assembled into a resource library under the Public Domain. :) —Pascal *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia
Stuff like this always draws the conspiracy theorists out of the woodwork—which isn’t too say it’s a negative thing—but for once I think I have tamer views on the subject. As stupid as some people seem to be, I don’t think Stephen Conroy is stupid enough to not get it by now. In fact he probably already understood that his clean feed scheme was not going to work properly— difficult to implement, risky to maintain, and have a number of adverse side effects—but as things go in politics he was too far in to admit he was wrong. Too much tax payer money had already been spent on the idea which had been promised to the Australian people under a Labour government at election time. In the end it’s a pathetic political episode: it would essentially be the political end of Mr. Conroy if he admits he was wrong now, so he’s going to try and play this out, although the chances of it ending well for him are dwindling daily. In the meantime we get to suffer from his egoism and possibly (let’s hope it doesn’t come to it) the clean feed. My 2 cents. (: Have an awesome week all. —Pascal On 30/11/2008, at 11:36 PM, Andrew R wrote: And adding my 2 cents worth… This is part of the grand conspiracy. The panic about porn / bomb instructions on the web knee jerk is a smoke screen. What the government wants to do is control how it’s citizen access media and hence ideas. They love the traditional mass media because it’s easy to control and run by cooperation that have a vested interest keeping the old paradigms. They hate the web, email, etc because it’s hard to control and hence subvert how ideas spread. Goverements all over the place have been trying to do this for a long time. It’s stupid, won’t work and is going to cost us millions. What will happen is lots of folks will subscript to OS encrypted tunnelling services. The outcome will be lots of encrypted web traffic which will be a lot worse if you’re trying to track the activities of bomb makers and paedophiles. And it is going to chew up money that would be more productively spend improving the speed of the infrastructure (and not slowing it down). This is nearly a dumb that idea that Mr Keating had of sell exclusive rights to provide Australian net access to Microsoft! Andrew Win £1000 John Lewis shopping sprees with BigSnapSearch.com Search now *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
