Re: [WSG] Justify this
On 15/12/05 4:27 PM, Paul Noone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kevin, That's just another limitation of the parameter. Justified text actually comes in several flavours - left, right and both. Actually, that's quite wrong. There is no such thing as left- or right-justified text, only left- or right-aligned text. Justified text is exactly as I described in my last post: text that spans a full block element (print or screen) and is aligned to both left and right margins. I am of course talking about the technical publishing definition of the term, not the CSS version. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Justify this
Hi Kevin, Antiquated or inadequate definitions aside, I am actually quite correct. I'm referring to the common problem of how to display the last line of text in a paragraph. This decision can also drastically increase the whit rivers problem already discussed. This last line can, in fact, be aligned either left, right or centre depending on your needs, language, fancy or daft inclination. Indeed this form of justified paragraph is so popular that any professional desktop application worth it's salt has all these styles built-in. InDesign is just one example. I hope that calrifies it for everyone. This has now gone way OT. Direct replies only please. The list is surely bored to death with this by now. -- Paul A Noone Webmaster, ASHM [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Futter Sent: Friday, 16 December 2005 8:51 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this On 15/12/05 4:27 PM, Paul Noone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kevin, That's just another limitation of the parameter. Justified text actually comes in several flavours - left, right and both. Actually, that's quite wrong. There is no such thing as left- or right-justified text, only left- or right-aligned text. Justified text is exactly as I described in my last post: text that spans a full block element (print or screen) and is aligned to both left and right margins. I am of course talking about the technical publishing definition of the term, not the CSS version. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Justify this
Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on this one. I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick. But can justify be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this just work through browser quirks? text-align: center justify; -- Paul A Noone Webmaster, ASHM [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Justify this
what are you applying it to? a heading or a paragraph of text? -Original Message- From: Paul Noone To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: 15/12/05 14:18 Subject: [WSG] Justify this Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on this one. I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick. But can justify be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this just work through browser quirks? text-align: center justify; -- Paul A Noone Webmaster, ASHM [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Justify this
Sorry. A paragraph. Don't ask me why I'm trying this eitherlet's just call it an exercise. ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:30 PM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org ' Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this what are you applying it to? a heading or a paragraph of text? -Original Message- From: Paul Noone To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: 15/12/05 14:18 Subject: [WSG] Justify this Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on this one. I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick. But can justify be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this just work through browser quirks? text-align: center justify; -- Paul A Noone Webmaster, ASHM [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Justify this
Paul Noone wrote:
Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on this
one.
No, they are usually always helpful but you need to know what you're
looking for.
I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've applied
the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick. But can justify
be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this just work through
browser quirks?
text-align: center justify;
If that does anything at all, it's a browser bug. That property should
be ignored by a conforming browser. Centred and justified text are
mutually exclusive options and it makes little sense to combine them
like that. However, I'm going to assume you're looking for a way to
centre the box, but have the text justified within. In which case, this
should do the trick:
p { width: 50%; margin: 0 auto; text-align: justify; }
Just use an appropriate selector and width for your needs.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] Justify this
Hi Lachlan,
Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified text
for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
Thanks anyway.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Paul Noone wrote:
Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on
this one.
No, they are usually always helpful but you need to know what you're looking
for.
I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've
applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick. But
can justify be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this
just work through browser quirks?
text-align: center justify;
If that does anything at all, it's a browser bug. That property should be
ignored by a conforming browser. Centred and justified text are mutually
exclusive options and it makes little sense to combine them like that.
However, I'm going to assume you're looking for a way to centre the box, but
have the text justified within. In which case, this should do the trick:
p { width: 50%; margin: 0 auto; text-align: justify; }
Just use an appropriate selector and width for your needs.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
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**
RE: [WSG] Justify this
Justified text really isn't a good idea in terms of usability/readability.
Maybe there was a conscious effort not to support it :)
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 14:49
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Hi Lachlan,
Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified
text
for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
Thanks anyway.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Paul Noone wrote:
Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on
this one.
No, they are usually always helpful but you need to know what you're
looking
for.
I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've
applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick. But
can justify be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this
just work through browser quirks?
text-align: center justify;
If that does anything at all, it's a browser bug. That property should
be
ignored by a conforming browser. Centred and justified text are
mutually
exclusive options and it makes little sense to combine them like that.
However, I'm going to assume you're looking for a way to centre the box,
but
have the text justified within. In which case, this should do the
trick:
p { width: 50%; margin: 0 auto; text-align: justify; }
Just use an appropriate selector and width for your needs.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] Justify this
Everyone's a comedian today. :P
T'was purely an aesthetic venture for a client and one which I'll now gladly
leave behind. They're getting pre tags and they're just going to have to
live with it. :)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:59 PM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org '
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Justified text really isn't a good idea in terms of usability/readability.
Maybe there was a conscious effort not to support it :)
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 14:49
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Hi Lachlan,
Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified text
for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
Thanks anyway.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Paul Noone wrote:
Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on
this one.
No, they are usually always helpful but you need to know what you're looking
for.
I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've
applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick. But
can justify be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this
just work through browser quirks?
text-align: center justify;
If that does anything at all, it's a browser bug. That property should be
ignored by a conforming browser. Centred and justified text are mutually
exclusive options and it makes little sense to combine them like that.
However, I'm going to assume you're looking for a way to centre the box, but
have the text justified within. In which case, this should do the
trick:
p { width: 50%; margin: 0 auto; text-align: justify; }
Just use an appropriate selector and width for your needs.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
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**
Re: [WSG] Justify this
Really? Why not?
I wouldn't have said that of justified text, but maybe my response is
an aesthetic one rather than a conscious approach to readability. Is
it something to do with not being able to find the line you were on at
the end/beginning as easily?
(And if we're going to go down this path, what of non-fixed-width
sites, justified or not?)
Not attacking, just... curious. Because I think justified text LOOKS
nicer (n.b. not neccessarily more readable... just more enjoyable to
read.)
Josh
On 12/15/05, Herrod, Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Justified text really isn't a good idea in terms of usability/readability.
Maybe there was a conscious effort not to support it :)
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 14:49
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Hi Lachlan,
Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified
text
for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
Thanks anyway.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Paul Noone wrote:
Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on
this one.
No, they are usually always helpful but you need to know what you're
looking
for.
I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've
applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick. But
can justify be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this
just work through browser quirks?
text-align: center justify;
If that does anything at all, it's a browser bug. That property should
be
ignored by a conforming browser. Centred and justified text are
mutually
exclusive options and it makes little sense to combine them like that.
However, I'm going to assume you're looking for a way to centre the box,
but
have the text justified within. In which case, this should do the
trick:
p { width: 50%; margin: 0 auto; text-align: justify; }
Just use an appropriate selector and width for your needs.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
--
Joshua Street
http://www.joahua.com/
+61 (0) 425 808 469
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] Justify this
no, I'm a comedian every day, it's just that I don't post every day :P
but seriously, are you adding paragraphs of justified text to the page...?
(irrespective of which element you're using to mark up).
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 15:00
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Everyone's a comedian today. :P
T'was purely an aesthetic venture for a client and one which I'll now
gladly
leave behind. They're getting pre tags and they're just going to have
to
live with it. :)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:59 PM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org '
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Justified text really isn't a good idea in terms of
usability/readability.
Maybe there was a conscious effort not to support it :)
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 14:49
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Hi Lachlan,
Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified
text
for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
Thanks anyway.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Paul Noone wrote:
Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on
this one.
No, they are usually always helpful but you need to know what you're
looking
for.
I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've
applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick. But
can justify be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this
just work through browser quirks?
text-align: center justify;
If that does anything at all, it's a browser bug. That property should
be
ignored by a conforming browser. Centred and justified text are
mutually
exclusive options and it makes little sense to combine them like that.
However, I'm going to assume you're looking for a way to centre the box,
but
have the text justified within. In which case, this should do the
trick:
p { width: 50%; margin: 0 auto; text-align: justify; }
Just use an appropriate selector and width for your needs.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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RE: [WSG] Justify this
We're talking about paragraphs of text here.
It's harder to read, presents 'rivers of white' running through the text as
lines stretch and contract to fit the line. it's unnatural. it's probably
unaustralian somewhere too :)
some links:
Rivers of white:
http://www.usability.com.au/resources/cognitive.cfm
More (where roger is referenced)
http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/publicwebsite/public_t
extjustify.hcsp
lisa
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Street
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 15:07
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Really? Why not?
I wouldn't have said that of justified text, but maybe my response is
an aesthetic one rather than a conscious approach to readability. Is
it something to do with not being able to find the line you were on at
the end/beginning as easily?
(And if we're going to go down this path, what of non-fixed-width
sites, justified or not?)
Not attacking, just... curious. Because I think justified text LOOKS
nicer (n.b. not neccessarily more readable... just more enjoyable to
read.)
Josh
On 12/15/05, Herrod, Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Justified text really isn't a good idea in terms of
usability/readability.
Maybe there was a conscious effort not to support it :)
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 14:49
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Hi Lachlan,
Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified
text
for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
Thanks anyway.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Paul Noone wrote:
Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on
this one.
No, they are usually always helpful but you need to know what you're
looking
for.
I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've
applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick.
But
can justify be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this
just work through browser quirks?
text-align: center justify;
If that does anything at all, it's a browser bug. That property
should
be
ignored by a conforming browser. Centred and justified text are
mutually
exclusive options and it makes little sense to combine them like that.
However, I'm going to assume you're looking for a way to centre the
box,
but
have the text justified within. In which case, this should do the
trick:
p { width: 50%; margin: 0 auto; text-align: justify; }
Just use an appropriate selector and width for your needs.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
--
Joshua Street
http://www.joahua.com/
+61 (0) 425 808 469
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] Justify this
Well, I've been interested in the whole justified text issue for a while and
think Joshua raises an interesting point. I don't generally use it to style
paragraphs because I personally don't like its appearance but I wasn't aware
there were accessibility concerns.
In this instance I was merely trying to style a footer in a particular
fashion that matched the client's letterhead. Silly, I know.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 3:08 PM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org '
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
no, I'm a comedian every day, it's just that I don't post every day :P
but seriously, are you adding paragraphs of justified text to the page...?
(irrespective of which element you're using to mark up).
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 15:00
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Everyone's a comedian today. :P
T'was purely an aesthetic venture for a client and one which I'll now gladly
leave behind. They're getting pre tags and they're just going to have to
live with it. :)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:59 PM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org '
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Justified text really isn't a good idea in terms of usability/readability.
Maybe there was a conscious effort not to support it :)
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 14:49
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Hi Lachlan,
Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified text
for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
Thanks anyway.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Paul Noone wrote:
Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on
this one.
No, they are usually always helpful but you need to know what you're looking
for.
I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've
applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick. But
can justify be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this
just work through browser quirks?
text-align: center justify;
If that does anything at all, it's a browser bug. That property should be
ignored by a conforming browser. Centred and justified text are mutually
exclusive options and it makes little sense to combine them like that.
However, I'm going to assume you're looking for a way to centre the box, but
have the text justified within. In which case, this should do the
trick:
p { width: 50%; margin: 0 auto; text-align: justify; }
Just use an appropriate selector and width for your needs.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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Re: [WSG] Justify this
In answer to your actual original question...
Wouldn't it just involve setting the paragraphs container to
padding: 0 3em; text-align: center;
and then in the paragraph have something like
text-align: justify;
where 3em is the space on either side of the para to make it look centred.
style
div { padding: 0 3em; text-align: center; }
p { text-align: justify; }
/style
div
pThis is just some text. This is just some text. This is just some text.
This is just some text. This is just some text. This is just some text. This
is just some text. This is just some text. This is just some text. This is
just some text. This is just some text. This is just some text. This is just
some text. This is just some text. This is just some text. This is just some
text. This is just some text. This is just some text. This is just some
text. This is just some text. This is just some text. /p
/div
R :o)
- Original Message -
From: Herrod, Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Joshua Street ' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
We're talking about paragraphs of text here.
It's harder to read, presents 'rivers of white' running through the text
as
lines stretch and contract to fit the line. it's unnatural. it's probably
unaustralian somewhere too :)
some links:
Rivers of white:
http://www.usability.com.au/resources/cognitive.cfm
More (where roger is referenced)
http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/publicwebsite/public_t
extjustify.hcsp
lisa
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Street
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 15:07
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Really? Why not?
I wouldn't have said that of justified text, but maybe my response is
an aesthetic one rather than a conscious approach to readability. Is
it something to do with not being able to find the line you were on at
the end/beginning as easily?
(And if we're going to go down this path, what of non-fixed-width
sites, justified or not?)
Not attacking, just... curious. Because I think justified text LOOKS
nicer (n.b. not neccessarily more readable... just more enjoyable to
read.)
Josh
On 12/15/05, Herrod, Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Justified text really isn't a good idea in terms of
usability/readability.
Maybe there was a conscious effort not to support it :)
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 14:49
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Hi Lachlan,
Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified
text
for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
Thanks anyway.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Paul Noone wrote:
Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on
this one.
No, they are usually always helpful but you need to know what you're
looking
for.
I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've
applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick.
But
can justify be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this
just work through browser quirks?
text-align: center justify;
If that does anything at all, it's a browser bug. That property
should
be
ignored by a conforming browser. Centred and justified text are
mutually
exclusive options and it makes little sense to combine them like that.
However, I'm going to assume you're looking for a way to centre the
box,
but
have the text justified within. In which case, this should do the
trick:
p { width: 50%; margin: 0 auto; text-align: justify; }
Just use an appropriate selector and width for your needs.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
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--
Joshua Street
http://www.joahua.com/
+61 (0) 425 808 469
**
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for some hints
RE: [WSG] Justify this
Also good is Colin Wheildon paper - Communicating or just making pretty
shapes. It's written for print but has some good stuff.
It used to be available at:
http://www.ianmc.com.au/articles/cojmps.pdf
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 3:17 PM
To: 'Joshua Street '; 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org '
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
We're talking about paragraphs of text here.
It's harder to read, presents 'rivers of white' running through the text
as
lines stretch and contract to fit the line. it's unnatural. it's
probably
unaustralian somewhere too :)
some links:
Rivers of white:
http://www.usability.com.au/resources/cognitive.cfm
More (where roger is referenced)
http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/publicwebsite/publ
ic_t
extjustify.hcsp
lisa
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Street
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 15:07
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Really? Why not?
I wouldn't have said that of justified text, but maybe my response is
an aesthetic one rather than a conscious approach to readability. Is
it something to do with not being able to find the line you were on at
the end/beginning as easily?
(And if we're going to go down this path, what of non-fixed-width
sites, justified or not?)
Not attacking, just... curious. Because I think justified text LOOKS
nicer (n.b. not neccessarily more readable... just more enjoyable to
read.)
Josh
On 12/15/05, Herrod, Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Justified text really isn't a good idea in terms of
usability/readability.
Maybe there was a conscious effort not to support it :)
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 14:49
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Hi Lachlan,
Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified
text
for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
Thanks anyway.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Paul Noone wrote:
Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on
this one.
No, they are usually always helpful but you need to know what you're
looking
for.
I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've
applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick.
But
can justify be applied as an optional extra parameter, or does this
just work through browser quirks?
text-align: center justify;
If that does anything at all, it's a browser bug. That property
should
be
ignored by a conforming browser. Centred and justified text are
mutually
exclusive options and it makes little sense to combine them like that.
However, I'm going to assume you're looking for a way to centre the
box,
but
have the text justified within. In which case, this should do the
trick:
p { width: 50%; margin: 0 auto; text-align: justify; }
Just use an appropriate selector and width for your needs.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
--
Joshua Street
http://www.joahua.com/
+61 (0) 425 808 469
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
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for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Justify this
On 15/12/05 2:49 PM, Paul Noone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lachlan, Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified text for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid. Thanks anyway. Justified text runs full-width and aligns to both left and right margins, and is hence incompatible with the concept of being centred. This is also why it's less legible - the rivers of white space alluded to already are caused by varying and inconsistent word spacing, which makes the eye jump from word to word instead of tracking smoothly. I'd also have to dispute that it looks better, but that's just subjective on my part. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Justify this
From: Paul Noone [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, I've been interested in the whole justified text issue for a
while and
think Joshua raises an interesting point. I don't generally use it
to style
paragraphs because I personally don't like its appearance but I
wasn't aware
there were accessibility concerns.
If you're into justified text, the only browsers that can do a
reasonable job are IE5.5x+ Windows, using a proprietary property. The
programming is pretty darn good. It's nearly as good as the NY Times,
actually. But it ain't standards and must be deployed via Conditional
Comment. Take it and hide before somebody yells at us ;-)
!--[if lte IE 6]
style
p {
text-align: justify;
text-justify: newspaper;
}
/style
![endif]--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.
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Re: [WSG] Justify this
Paul Noone wrote:
Lachlan Hunt wrote:
Paul Noone wrote:
I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've applied
the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick.
text-align:center justify;
p { width: 50%; margin: 0 auto; text-align: justify; }
Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified
text for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
If that isn't a solution to your problem, then you need to more clearly
explain what you are trying to do. Conceptually, it makes no sense to
both center and justify text, since they are mutually exclusive values.
I tried your suggested code, but couldn't find any browser that produces
the result you described in either quirks or standards mode, all
browsers I tried correctly ignore the values and default to left alignment.
Please provide a better description, a sample document or some form of
illustration (eg. ascii art or a link to an image) that demonstrates the
effect you are trying to achieve. If, as you say, the sample code you
provided does produce the effect you want, please provide a test case
and indicate which broken browser gives the intended result so we may
see for ourselves.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] Justify this
Hi Kevin, That's just another limitation of the parameter. Justified text actually comes in several flavours - left, right and both. I believe there are also settings to use it vertically to fill a box but I'm not even going to begin to paddle down that white river. ;) -- Paul A Noone Webmaster, ASHM [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Futter Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 3:48 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this On 15/12/05 2:49 PM, Paul Noone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lachlan, Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified text for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid. Thanks anyway. Justified text runs full-width and aligns to both left and right margins, and is hence incompatible with the concept of being centred. This is also why it's less legible - the rivers of white space alluded to already are caused by varying and inconsistent word spacing, which makes the eye jump from word to word instead of tracking smoothly. I'd also have to dispute that it looks better, but that's just subjective on my part. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Justify this
Hi Lachlan,
My original question was intended to get a simple anser on the limitations
and correct use of justify with text-align, not to open a whole can of worms
on how else I might achive the result. I'll leave that discussion for
anyone else who cares to pursue it.
Thanks for all your suggestions and comments but I'm well and truly done
with this line of inquiry for now.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 4:17 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Justify this
Paul Noone wrote:
Lachlan Hunt wrote:
Paul Noone wrote:
I want to centre align text and justify it at the same time. I've
applied the following mark-up which, surprisingly, does the trick.
text-align:center justify;
p { width: 50%; margin: 0 auto; text-align: justify; }
Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified
text for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
If that isn't a solution to your problem, then you need to more clearly
explain what you are trying to do. Conceptually, it makes no sense to both
center and justify text, since they are mutually exclusive values.
I tried your suggested code, but couldn't find any browser that produces the
result you described in either quirks or standards mode, all browsers I
tried correctly ignore the values and default to left alignment.
Please provide a better description, a sample document or some form of
illustration (eg. ascii art or a link to an image) that demonstrates the
effect you are trying to achieve. If, as you say, the sample code you
provided does produce the effect you want, please provide a test case and
indicate which broken browser gives the intended result so we may see for
ourselves.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Justify this
Al Sparber wrote:
From: Paul Noone [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, I've been interested in the whole justified text issue for a
while and
think Joshua raises an interesting point. I don't generally use it to
style
paragraphs because I personally don't like its appearance but I wasn't
aware
there were accessibility concerns.
If you're into justified text, the only browsers that can do a
reasonable job are IE5.5x+ Windows, using a proprietary property. The
programming is pretty darn good. It's nearly as good as the NY Times,
actually. But it ain't standards and must be deployed via Conditional
Comment. Take it and hide before somebody yells at us ;-)
!--[if lte IE 6]
style
p {
text-align: justify;
text-justify: newspaper;
}
/style
![endif]--
*smile* I'll take this justified txt, too! I remember when you brought
it up on another list, Al, and i thought it was quiet remarkable. the
only reason i haven't used it is because i hadn't thought of deploying
with conditonal comments!
Thanks!
Donna
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Re: [WSG] Justify this
On 15 Dec 2005, at 2:15 pm, Al Sparber wrote:
If you're into justified text, the only browsers that can do a
reasonable job are IE5.5x+ Windows, using a proprietary property.
The programming is pretty darn good. It's nearly as good as the NY
Times, actually. But it ain't standards and must be deployed via
Conditional Comment. Take it and hide before somebody yells at us ;-)
!--[if lte IE 6]
style
p {
text-align: justify;
text-justify: newspaper;
}
/style
![endif]--
Those text justification properties from MS are quite nice. I use it
often for display of Japanese text. It makes Japanese text nearly
readable on IE (now if those MS fonts weren't so ugly,...)
p {
text-align:justify;
text-justify:inter-ideograph;
}
The text-align:justify also works pretty well in Firefox 1.5, for
East-Asian text.
Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://emps.l-c-n.com/
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