Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
Paul, Thanks for those references, i went and got one of the books today: Geometry of Design - Studies in Proportion and Composition by Kimberly Elam (2001) I feel this is going to be a great benefit to me, knowing how to use the Golden Number when designing. I do a lot of club fliers and CD Covers so maybe it will help me with those. All these years designing and i didn't know about PHI. Thanks again, i had to nag my girlfriend for the £10.45 (im broke atm) and took me over an hour to find the copy they had at 'Waterstones' (local book store) James On Nov 2, 2007 12:20 AM, Paul Minty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WSG, 'Universal Principles of Design' states that the Golden Ration is also known as: golden mean; golden number; golden section, golden proportion, divine proportion and sectio aurea. It is an anceint (dating back to the classical greeks) principle of geometry. It may be an early attempt to codify a cognitive phenomenon or a simple tradition. The Fibonacci Sequence can converge to a golden mean. The ratio is 0.618. For a comprehensive discussion of proportions that include the golden mean, see 'Geometry of Design - Studies in Proportion and Composition' by Kimberly Elam (2001). This also presents a case that the general population prefers designs based on some geometric proportions. Another reference is: 'Grids, the structure of graphic design' by Andre Jute (1996). The YUI Grids patterns do not have any great focus on a geometrical proportion. Our Art Director decided that we would have a strong emphasis on classic proportions as part of our house style. Therefore we modified the YUI grids CSS files to change the default proportions to the ones that our Art Director wants to use on a regular basis. This improves our quality and speed on most jobs. It also helps wire-framing as we use a particular proportion to give consistency and attractiveness to our wire-frames. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Laakso Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2007 12:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids James Jeffery wrote: Hmmm interesting i might take a look at it. I would love to know more about YUI Grids and the 'Golden Mean'. James FWIW, the Golden Mean is a matter of philosophy. I believe the search string you seek is Golden Ratio. Best, ~dL -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
Hi Paul, thanks for the links, it's nice that they are also a bit different in design, so we have different examples. regards, Maarten On Nov 2, 2007 1:07 AM, Paul Minty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maarten, We've done a few, often with a couple of mods. www.vssmarthomes.com.au www.nyp.com.au (I think) www.wwwatertrucks.com The smaller the job, the more likely we are to use the YUI Grids as they are. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maarten Stolte Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2007 7:00 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids Hi, We've been using the YUI for a while. We wrote our own variant to support the proportions that our Art Director likes to use, which include the Golden Mean. Can you show any examples of sites using it? I'm wanting to show our front end designer some examples. thanks, Maarten *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
Ok i will confess slightly, i think yahoo have pulled on the old heart strings and im sort of falling in love with framwork. I spend alot of time on an CSS channel on IRC, most of us on there are typical We can do anything we don't need help from anyone, and when someone mentions YUI stylesheets we flame to the ends of the earth. Saying that though, the framework does have its uses and it will certainly save me alot of time at the start of a project when it comes to the building blocks. Im going to give them a chance and give it a whirl on a few projects. I doubt i will base everything on it, that takes the challenge and the fun out of the job but i will certainly give it a go. Im still awaiting that link from one of the posters on YUI and the 'PHI' (Golden Mean/Ration/Selection) Cheers On Oct 31, 2007 12:45 PM, Lars Michael Sørensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're using YUI grids at www.dona.dk. I'll never use anything else again, if I can help it! /lmss 2007/10/31, Maarten Stolte [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, We've been using the YUI for a while. We wrote our own variant to support the proportions that our Art Director likes to use, which include the Golden Mean. Can you show any examples of sites using it? I'm wanting to show our front end designer some examples. thanks, Maarten *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
Maarten, We've done a few, often with a couple of mods. www.vssmarthomes.com.au www.nyp.com.au (I think) www.wwwatertrucks.com The smaller the job, the more likely we are to use the YUI Grids as they are. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maarten Stolte Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2007 7:00 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids Hi, We've been using the YUI for a while. We wrote our own variant to support the proportions that our Art Director likes to use, which include the Golden Mean. Can you show any examples of sites using it? I'm wanting to show our front end designer some examples. thanks, Maarten *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
WSG, 'Universal Principles of Design' states that the Golden Ration is also known as: golden mean; golden number; golden section, golden proportion, divine proportion and sectio aurea. It is an anceint (dating back to the classical greeks) principle of geometry. It may be an early attempt to codify a cognitive phenomenon or a simple tradition. The Fibonacci Sequence can converge to a golden mean. The ratio is 0.618. For a comprehensive discussion of proportions that include the golden mean, see 'Geometry of Design - Studies in Proportion and Composition' by Kimberly Elam (2001). This also presents a case that the general population prefers designs based on some geometric proportions. Another reference is: 'Grids, the structure of graphic design' by Andre Jute (1996). The YUI Grids patterns do not have any great focus on a geometrical proportion. Our Art Director decided that we would have a strong emphasis on classic proportions as part of our house style. Therefore we modified the YUI grids CSS files to change the default proportions to the ones that our Art Director wants to use on a regular basis. This improves our quality and speed on most jobs. It also helps wire-framing as we use a particular proportion to give consistency and attractiveness to our wire-frames. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Laakso Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2007 12:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids James Jeffery wrote: Hmmm interesting i might take a look at it. I would love to know more about YUI Grids and the 'Golden Mean'. James FWIW, the Golden Mean is a matter of philosophy. I believe the search string you seek is Golden Ratio. Best, ~dL -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
Hi, We've been using the YUI for a while. We wrote our own variant to support the proportions that our Art Director likes to use, which include the Golden Mean. Can you show any examples of sites using it? I'm wanting to show our front end designer some examples. thanks, Maarten *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
Hmmm interesting i might take a look at it. I would love to know more about YUI Grids and the 'Golden Mean'. James On 10/31/07, Maarten Stolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We've been using the YUI for a while. We wrote our own variant to support the proportions that our Art Director likes to use, which include the Golden Mean. Can you show any examples of sites using it? I'm wanting to show our front end designer some examples. thanks, Maarten *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
James Jeffery wrote: Hmmm interesting i might take a look at it. I would love to know more about YUI Grids and the 'Golden Mean'. James FWIW, the Golden Mean is a matter of philosophy. I believe the search string you seek is Golden Ratio. Best, ~dL -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
We're using YUI grids at www.dona.dk. I'll never use anything else again, if I can help it! /lmss 2007/10/31, Maarten Stolte [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, We've been using the YUI for a while. We wrote our own variant to support the proportions that our Art Director likes to use, which include the Golden Mean. Can you show any examples of sites using it? I'm wanting to show our front end designer some examples. thanks, Maarten *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
Does the Yahoo Grid framework have any relation to the golden rule (ie: Divine Proportion)? I am slowly learning to create aesthetically pleasing web designs, although i would never us the Yahoo framework does it have any relation? Or is YUI Grid system just a way to place blocks on the page? Cheer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
You mean the 'Golden Mean'? Not that I can see - grids offers a variety of column widths and nesting. You do a large variety of things with it and column widths don't appear to be golden mean base, but based on Yahoo's enormous experience . I am slowly learning to create aesthetically pleasing web designs, although i would never use the Yahoo framework As someone who is getting ready to implement grids for a large government project, may I ask why not? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
Its a personal reason. I like to do everything from design, to build, to backend scripting to deploying. I find its less hassle to create my own layouts for the job i am working on. Im the same with JS and PHP, even though there are pre compiled scripts out there, i would rather create my own, so at least when i can't find the answer to a problem i will have the experience to create it. There are alot of aids out there, but i am a man of dry grass and 2 flints, i will create a fire with the bare essentials. I worked for a company, and many of the developers were questioning the use of YUI Grids, the boss said he took to much pride in his company to base his developments around someone else's creation, i feel that was a bit strong, but there are alot of people that don't and won't use them. On Oct 31, 2007 12:18 AM, Paul Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You mean the 'Golden Mean'? Not that I can see - grids offers a variety of column widths and nesting. You do a large variety of things with it and column widths don't appear to be golden mean base, but based on Yahoo's enormous experience . I am slowly learning to create aesthetically pleasing web designs, although i would never use the Yahoo framework As someone who is getting ready to implement grids for a large government project, may I ask why not? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
WSGers, We've been using the YUI for a while. We wrote our own variant to support the proportions that our Art Director likes to use, which include the Golden Mean. It's boosted our front end development speed and means we can start getting consitent layout hapenning when we develop HTML prototypes as well. It also gives us a head start when we are browser testing. It was pretty easy to re-write the CSS to support the proportional grids that we want to use. Remember that constraining widths is easy enough, but constraining heights is a real pain if you want the user to be able to resize text. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Bennett Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2007 11:30 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids You mean the 'Golden Mean'? Not that I can see - grids offers a variety of column widths and nesting. You do a large variety of things with it and column widths don't appear to be golden mean base, but based on Yahoo's enormous experience . I am slowly learning to create aesthetically pleasing web designs, although i would never use the Yahoo framework As someone who is getting ready to implement grids for a large government project, may I ask why not? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
