Re: [WSG] class targeting problem-help!- was background image
the quickest fix might be simply to change #header from
overflow:auto; to overflow:hidden; in structure.css which seems to
work fine at least in FF
But you've also got some likely errors to sort out in the nav.css:
#navcontainer.room A.active:link, A.active:visited
{
border-right: 0px solid black;
}
you've got the .room attached to #navcontainer instead of the
anchor; you need to repeat the #navcontainer for the second part,
and you've got .active as a class, where perhaps you mean to do
something more like a:visited:active and a:link:active (unless you
actually have a class named .active, which I didn't notice)
On Mar 3, 2007, at 4:23 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote:
Hello,
Thanks for all the suggestion for the background image.
I have one more problem with this site.
www.arena7.ie/index2.html
click on the function room link in the far right of the top nav bar.
notice that when the link is clicked the layout breaks.
this is because the right border turned off on the class of that
button for the link state only.
like this:
#navcontainer A.room
{
background-image: url(butfunction.png);
background-repeat:repeat-x; border-right: 0px solid black;
}
How do i target the click state and all states for that matter on
the above class so i can disable the border there as well? I tried
a few different things and cant get it.
-best
kevin
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[WSG] class targeting problem-help!- was background image
Hello,
Thanks for all the suggestion for the background image.
I have one more problem with this site.
www.arena7.ie/index2.html
click on the function room link in the far right of the top nav bar.
notice that when the link is clicked the layout breaks.
this is because the right border turned off on the class of that button
for the link state only.
like this:
#navcontainer A.room
{
background-image: url(butfunction.png);
background-repeat:repeat-x; border-right: 0px solid black;
}
How do i target the click state and all states for that matter on the
above class so i can disable the border there as well? I tried a few
different things and cant get it.
-best
kevin
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Re: [WSG] Class
Hi Stephen,
You wrote:
I am a bit confused about: style. Take the following statement: From my reading, I understand that this html
element, "style" has been deprecated. Is this true or have I misinterpreted
the information?
I see this part has been answered clearly enough for
your use in line with the style attribute. The style
attribute was apparently included before the current
emphasis on separating content from presentation--the
fact that it is considered bad practice does not, of
course, keep you from using it as a quick-and-dirty
way to try out ideas while you are developing a page,
though.
Second, how would I go about replacing this html version of "style" into a
proper CSS rule to use in my document?
I think you may also need the basic format to use in
adding your style rules. I amost always set up mine
in the HEAD section of the document at first (also
not a best practice in most cases for what you put
out on the web) for convenience in working:
.aclassname
{
arule;
anotherrule;
}
This will work in most browsers while you are in
the development stage but you will most likely
want to turn it into a separate style sheet for
actually uploading it to a server. That can be
done by cutting out the code between the
and tags and saving it as whatever.css
(of course, you have to upload it to the server
too); then amend your style element to read:
That assumes you upload the whatever.css to the
same folder as your .htm file (When you get more
than a few files you may want to separate .htm
files from .css files, though, but perhaps that
can wait until further along on your learning
curve.) and also that you do not need to hide
your CSS from old browsers or from some user
agent that reacts badly to something in your
style rules.
Regards,
Gene Falck
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WSG] Class
Stephan,
I do not know if it desprecated but if you want to use it you can add
the following to your CSS declarations:
body { margin-top; 200px; }
however you may want to go with
body { margin-top: 12em; }
so it scales with fluid designs (or use percentages).
Jim
On 11/25/05, Stephen Kortz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I am a bit confused about: style. Take the following statement: style="margin-top; 200px"> From my reading, I understand that this html
> element, "style" has been deprecated. Is this true or have I misinterpreted
> the information?
>
> Second, how would I go about replacing this html version of "style" into a
> proper CSS rule to use in my document?
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[WSG] Class
Hi all, I am a bit confused about: style. Take the following statement: From my reading, I understand that this html element, "style" has been deprecated. Is this true or have I misinterpreted the information? Second, how would I go about replacing this html version of "style" into a proper CSS rule to use in my document? Hope I have made myself clear explaining my confusion! Thanks for the help. Stephen Kortz ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Hi Mario,
I don't know what's different, but here's the test page I used to develop it:
http://www.websemantics.co.uk/test/centered_content/
Tested as working on:
PC: IE v5, IE v6, Firefox.
Mac: IE v5.2, Safari.
The test example has no margin set on the container div.
Though I don't really think it matters whether it's stated on the body tag or
the container.
I'd put that to personal taste or style.
mike 2k:)2
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 21 June 2005 16:11
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: Mike Foskett
Subject: RE: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Good morning Mike,
I must respectfully disagree. I'm looking at my client site in FF, Opera,
Mozilla and Netscape as I compose this reply, and the page is left-aligned
using "margin:0 auto" in the body rule only.
However, it center-aligns the page when placing the "margin:0 auto" in a
container div.
body
{text-align: center;
background: #ccc;}
#container
{margin: 0 auto;
width: 760px;
font: normal 12px verdana, arial, sans-serif;
background: #fff;}
Respectfully yours,
Mario
> Hi Mario,
>
> That only occurs with IE v5.
> IE v5.5, v6, Firefox, Netscape and Opera will all centre the design.
> The only amend required to get IE v5 to behave is to add
> text-align:center to the body element. Then compensate for that
> alignment in the elements
> below:
>
> * {margin:0; padding:0}
> html {height:100%; font-size:100.01%}
> body {
> text-align:center;
> min-height:101%;
> font:76.1%/130% Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> color:#000; background:#fff;
> width:760px;
> margin:0 auto
> }
>
> body * {text-align:left}
> #wrapper {width:760px}
>
> (Amended from:
> http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#leveller)
>
> IE v5 requires all the centred content to be in a wrapper div (other
> browsers don't).
>
> all centred content in here
>
>
> mike 2k:)2
>
>
>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 June 2005 19:32
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Cc: Mike Foskett
> Subject: RE: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Great set of CSS code snippets and explanations! However, there is one
> declaration that suggests using "margin: 0 auto" in the body rule, which
> supposedly center-aligns the webpage in the browser. However, testing
> reveals that it left-aligns the page, but placing this declaration in a
> container or wrapper works.
>
> Please advise...
>
> Respectfully yours,
> Mario
>
>
>> You might find this useful to look at:
>> http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#leveller
>> Gives light detail on why certain settings are used.
>>
>> The latest version:
>> http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#levelleru
>> pdate It requires text-align:center adding for IE v5 though.
>>
>> Hope it helps
>>
>> mike 2k:)2
>>
>>
>>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>> **
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
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>
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RE: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Good morning Mike,
I must respectfully disagree. I'm looking at my client site in FF, Opera,
Mozilla and Netscape as I compose this reply, and the page is left-aligned
using "margin:0 auto" in the body rule only.
However, it center-aligns the page when placing the "margin:0 auto" in a
container div.
body
{text-align: center;
background: #ccc;}
#container
{margin: 0 auto;
width: 760px;
font: normal 12px verdana, arial, sans-serif;
background: #fff;}
Respectfully yours,
Mario
> Hi Mario,
>
> That only occurs with IE v5.
> IE v5.5, v6, Firefox, Netscape and Opera will all centre the design. The
> only amend required to get IE v5 to behave is to add text-align:center
> to the body element. Then compensate for that alignment in the elements
> below:
>
> * {margin:0; padding:0}
> html {height:100%; font-size:100.01%}
> body {
> text-align:center;
> min-height:101%;
> font:76.1%/130% Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> color:#000; background:#fff;
> width:760px;
> margin:0 auto
> }
>
> body * {text-align:left}
> #wrapper {width:760px}
>
> (Amended from:
> http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#leveller)
>
> IE v5 requires all the centred content to be in a wrapper div (other
> browsers don't).
>
> all centred content in here
>
>
> mike 2k:)2
>
>
>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 June 2005 19:32
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Cc: Mike Foskett
> Subject: RE: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Great set of CSS code snippets and explanations! However, there is one
> declaration that suggests using "margin: 0 auto" in the body rule, which
> supposedly center-aligns the webpage in the browser. However, testing
> reveals that it left-aligns the page, but placing this declaration in a
> container or wrapper works.
>
> Please advise...
>
> Respectfully yours,
> Mario
>
>
>> You might find this useful to look at:
>> http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#leveller
>> Gives light detail on why certain settings are used.
>>
>> The latest version:
>> http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#levelleru
>> pdate It requires text-align:center adding for IE v5 though.
>>
>> Hope it helps
>>
>> mike 2k:)2
>>
>>
>>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>> **
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
>> the system manager.
>>
>> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
>> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
>>
>> www.clearswift.com
>> **
>>
>>
>> **
>> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>>
>> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
>> **
>
>
>
> **
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
>
>
>
>
>
> **
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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RE: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Hi Mario,
That only occurs with IE v5.
IE v5.5, v6, Firefox, Netscape and Opera will all centre the design.
The only amend required to get IE v5 to behave is to add text-align:center to
the body element.
Then compensate for that alignment in the elements below:
* {margin:0; padding:0}
html {height:100%; font-size:100.01%}
body{
text-align:center;
min-height:101%;
font:76.1%/130% Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif;
color:#000; background:#fff;
width:760px;
margin:0 auto
}
body * {text-align:left}
#wrapper {width:760px}
(Amended from:
http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#leveller)
IE v5 requires all the centred content to be in a wrapper div (other browsers
don't).
all centred content in here
mike 2k:)2
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 20 June 2005 19:32
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: Mike Foskett
Subject: RE: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Hi Mike,
Great set of CSS code snippets and explanations! However, there is one
declaration that suggests using "margin: 0 auto" in the body rule, which
supposedly center-aligns the webpage in the browser. However, testing reveals
that it left-aligns the page, but placing this declaration in a container or
wrapper works.
Please advise...
Respectfully yours,
Mario
> You might find this useful to look at:
> http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#leveller
> Gives light detail on why certain settings are used.
>
> The latest version:
> http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#levelleru
> pdate It requires text-align:center adding for IE v5 though.
>
> Hope it helps
>
> mike 2k:)2
>
>
>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
>
>
>
> **
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
> system manager.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
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>
>
> **
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Good evening [EMAIL PROTECTED],
It was foretold that on 20-6-2005 @ 13:32:14 GMT-0500 (CDT) (which was
20:32:14 where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] would write:
swc> However, there is one
swc> declaration that suggests using "margin: 0 auto" in the body rule, which
swc> supposedly center-aligns the webpage in the browser. However, testing
swc> reveals that it left-aligns the page, but placing this declaration in a
swc> container or wrapper works.
This explanation might help:
Wrap the page's contents within a
'wrapper' div e.g. 450 pixels wide:
body {
text-align : center;
min-width : 450px;
}
#wrapper {
position : relative;
text-align : left;
width : 450px;
margin-left : auto;
margin-right : auto;
}
MSIE 5 doesn't center based on auto left/right margins, but
text-align:center does center top-level divs, so you set the body with
text-align: center;.
To prevent negative (i.e. inaccessible) left-margins in narrow browser
windows (like Mozilla),you need to specify a min-width for the body as
wide as the wrapper itself. Hence the min-width: 450px;
To reset the alignment after the text-align:center on the body, you
specify text-align: left; on the wrapper. The auto margins will center
the element in the containing (body) tag.
It's the method i use.
--
Best regards,
Luc
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RE: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Hi Mike, Great set of CSS code snippets and explanations! However, there is one declaration that suggests using "margin: 0 auto" in the body rule, which supposedly center-aligns the webpage in the browser. However, testing reveals that it left-aligns the page, but placing this declaration in a container or wrapper works. Please advise... Respectfully yours, Mario > You might find this useful to look at: > http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#leveller > Gives light detail on why certain settings are used. > > The latest version: > http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#levellerupdate > It requires text-align:center adding for IE v5 though. > > Hope it helps > > mike 2k:)2 > > >e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk > > > > > ** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are > addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the > system manager. > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by > MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. > > www.clearswift.com > ** > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
You might find this useful to look at: http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#leveller Gives light detail on why certain settings are used. The latest version: http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#levellerupdate It requires text-align:center adding for IE v5 though. Hope it helps mike 2k:)2 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.clearswift.com ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
First, Firefox still allows the user to increase the font size if pixels are used. Second, font size is a much debated topic, and I think it's rather presumptious to infer that those of us who use pixels wallow in mediocrity. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>I do teach the students about "em, keywords and pixels, etc." based >> font size and allow them to make up their own minds. I understand the >> issue pertaining to accessibility and zooming text, but my personal >> preference is using pixels. >> >> > Fair enough, it's your choice. But why make it more difficult for the > user? Say to a user that you don't care if they read the text is a good > way to loose return visitors. Admittedly, not many, as most people are > used to putting up with the garbage that's out there; but why not rise > above field, rather that wallowing the mediocrity? > > In general, if someone wants to resize the font, it's for a good reason. > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: *{margin: 0; padding: 0} ???
On 6/17/05, Cole Kuryakin - x7m <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So...will *{margin: 0 padding:0} in the HTML or Body declaration block zero
> the margin and padding properties for all child elements in one go? I've
> never seen the "*" used before.
Something you may also want to remember is the immense advantage you
have with cross-browser issues. ULs have either margin or padding in
IE vs. Firefox, and there's more. Just bring it all back to zero and
you can style it your way without any surprises.
> And if this will work, will it work with older browsers?
My most daring bet would be that even 4.0 browsers support the
universal selector.
--
Cheers,
Rob.
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http://design.zooibaai.nl/ | More soon...
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Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: *{margin: 0; padding: 0} ???
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
Cole Kuryakin - x7m wrote:
So...will *{margin: 0 padding:0} in the HTML or Body declaration
block zero
the margin and padding properties for all child elements in one go?
For all elements, yes (not just child elements, written like that).
Additionally, the universal selector has a specificity of zero, so
anything will override it.
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Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: *{margin: 0; padding: 0} ???
Cole Kuryakin - x7m wrote:
So...will *{margin: 0 padding:0} in the HTML or Body declaration block zero
the margin and padding properties for all child elements in one go?
For all elements, yes (not just child elements, written like that).
I've
never seen the "*" used before.
It's called the universal selector:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/selector.html#universal-selector
--
Patrick H. Lauke
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**
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: IE resizing bug
What IE versions does this bug apply to? I use font-size: 1em on the body, but don't see anything wierd in IE 6. Is the resizing bug in IE 5.x+ (which I don't have on my machine). Cole - Original Message - From: "Mordechai Peller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout > David Laakso wrote: > > > I would *not* recommend using em for font size on the body, as it > > triggers a re-sizing bug in IE. > > Don't declare any font-size on the body. And use percent or em > > thereafter(if even necessary). > > Or, declare 100.01% percent on the body. And use percent or em > > thereafter(if even necessary). > > Good point; it was a slight oversight on my part. > > One point I'd like to add though, is that there are good reason for > using a value other than 100% besides the bug. Since some feel that the > default size is too large, so they set it to a lower value. Personally > though, I happen to prefer slightly larger text. > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: *{margin: 0; padding: 0} ???
Zeroing all default margins and padding throught a document is something I'm
always sweated over as I like to zero all of these properties right from the
top.
For the past 6 months or so I set the margin and padding to '0' in all
elements at the top of my style sheet: body - margin 0, padding 0; ul -
margin 0, padding 0, and on and on. time consuming, ugly, and inefficient to
my way of thinking. But it works.
So...will *{margin: 0 padding:0} in the HTML or Body declaration block zero
the margin and padding properties for all child elements in one go? I've
never seen the "*" used before.
And if this will work, will it work with older browsers?
Cole
- Original Message -
From: "Mordechai Peller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >The basic CSS syntax is as follows:
> >html
> >{height: 100%;
> > margin-bottom: 1px;}
> >
> >body
> >{margin: 0;
> > padding: 0;
> > text-align: center;
> > font: normal 12px verdana, arial, sans-serif;
> > background: #fff;}
> >
> >#container
> >{margin: 0 auto;
> > width: 760px;}
> >
> >
> Regarding margins and padding, simpler is
> * {margin : 0; padding : 0;}
> Zeroing all default margins and paddings helps achieve better cross
> browser rendering, as well as lists which are semantically, but not
> presentationally, a list (i.e., navigation lists).
>
> For the font size, under normal circumstances, use only percent or ems.
> (Were it properly supported, you could also use exs, but afaik, all
> browsers just use 2ex=1em.) When pixels are use, IE users cant change
> the font size to allow for easier reading. You may also want to increase
> the line-height as it too, makes reading easier.
>
> >3. Text-align: center set to center the page in Internet Explorer 5.0 &
> >5.5
> >
> >
> If you have an extra style sheet for IE (hidden using conditional
> comments), you might want to put this hack there. Also, don't forget to
> reset the alignment.
>
> >4. Margins must be set to "0" & "auto" in order to center-align a
> >fixed-width layout in IE6, Firefox, Mozilla, Netscape and Opera.
> >
> >
> You're right about setting left and right to "auto", but there's no need
> to set top and bottom to 0 (unless you want to).
>
> >5. Placing "margin: 0 auto" in the declaration block for the body rule
> >doesn't center-align the layout therefore this particluar declaration
> >must be placed inside an "ID" and applied to a wrapper or container div.
> >
> >
> Wrong; the setting goes in the body in order to center the container in
> IE<6.
>
> HTH
> **
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
>
>
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
David Laakso wrote: I would *not* recommend using em for font size on the body, as it triggers a re-sizing bug in IE. Don't declare any font-size on the body. And use percent or em thereafter(if even necessary). Or, declare 100.01% percent on the body. And use percent or em thereafter(if even necessary). Good point; it was a slight oversight on my part. One point I'd like to add though, is that there are good reason for using a value other than 100% besides the bug. Since some feel that the default size is too large, so they set it to a lower value. Personally though, I happen to prefer slightly larger text. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do teach the students about "em, keywords and pixels, etc." based font size and allow them to make up their own minds. I understand the issue pertaining to accessibility and zooming text, but my personal preference is using pixels. Fair enough, it's your choice. But why make it more difficult for the user? Say to a user that you don't care if they read the text is a good way to loose return visitors. Admittedly, not many, as most people are used to putting up with the garbage that's out there; but why not rise above field, rather that wallowing the mediocrity? In general, if someone wants to resize the font, it's for a good reason. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Point of clarification. I understood that "margin: 0 auto" worked in IE6, but IE 5.0 and 5.5 required the use of "text-align: center" in the body rule therefore why do I need "margin: 0 auto" in both the body and container? You don't need to set the margins of the body to auto, just the container. For the text-align it's the reverse. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Point of clarification.
I understood that "margin: 0 auto" worked in IE6, but IE 5.0 and 5.5
required the use of "text-align: center" in the body rule therefore why do
I need "margin: 0 auto" in both the body and container?
Please advise...
Thanks,
Mario
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>The basic CSS syntax is as follows:
>>html
>>{height: 100%;
>> margin-bottom: 1px;}
>>
>>body
>>{margin: 0;
>> padding: 0;
>> text-align: center;
>> font: normal 12px verdana, arial, sans-serif;
>> background: #fff;}
>>
>>#container
>>{margin: 0 auto;
>> width: 760px;}
>>
>>
> Regarding margins and padding, simpler is
> * {margin : 0; padding : 0;}
> Zeroing all default margins and paddings helps achieve better cross
> browser rendering, as well as lists which are semantically, but not
> presentationally, a list (i.e., navigation lists).
>
> For the font size, under normal circumstances, use only percent or ems.
> (Were it properly supported, you could also use exs, but afaik, all
> browsers just use 2ex=1em.) When pixels are use, IE users cant change
> the font size to allow for easier reading. You may also want to increase
> the line-height as it too, makes reading easier.
>
>>3. Text-align: center set to center the page in Internet Explorer 5.0 &
>> 5.5
>>
>>
> If you have an extra style sheet for IE (hidden using conditional
> comments), you might want to put this hack there. Also, don't forget to
> reset the alignment.
>
>>4. Margins must be set to "0" & "auto" in order to center-align a
>> fixed-width layout in IE6, Firefox, Mozilla, Netscape and Opera.
>>
>>
> You're right about setting left and right to "auto", but there's no need
> to set top and bottom to 0 (unless you want to).
>
>>5. Placing "margin: 0 auto" in the declaration block for the body rule
>> doesn't center-align the layout therefore this particluar declaration
>> must be placed inside an "ID" and applied to a wrapper or container
>> div.
>>
>>
> Wrong; the setting goes in the body in order to center the container in
> IE<6.
>
> HTH
> **
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Hi David,
I do teach the students about "em, keywords and pixels, etc." based font
size and allow them to make up their own minds. I understand the issue
pertaining to accessibility and zooming text, but my personal preference
is using pixels.
Thanks,
Mario
> On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:00:46 -0400, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> Good day all,
>> I'm conducting a course in CSS at the local community college, and the
>> students are sincerely interested in web standards
> Some people who are interested in web standards advocate using relative
> font-size methods.
>> and designing with CSS instead of tables.
> [...]
>> body
>> {margin: 0;
>> padding: 0;
>> text-align: center;
>> font: normal *12px* verdana, arial, sans-serif;
>> background: #fff;}
> [...]
> Regards,
> David Laakso
> --
> http://www.dlaakso.com/
>
> **
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:56:44 -0400, Mordechai Peller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Mordechai Peller> For the font size, under normal circumstances, use only percent or ems. I would *not* recommend using em for font size on the body, as it triggers a re-sizing bug in IE. Don't declare any font-size on the body. And use percent or em thereafter(if even necessary). Or, declare 100.01% percent on the body. And use percent or em thereafter(if even necessary). -- http://www.dlaakso.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The basic CSS syntax is as follows:
html
{height: 100%;
margin-bottom: 1px;}
body
{margin: 0;
padding: 0;
text-align: center;
font: normal 12px verdana, arial, sans-serif;
background: #fff;}
#container
{margin: 0 auto;
width: 760px;}
Regarding margins and padding, simpler is
* {margin : 0; padding : 0;}
Zeroing all default margins and paddings helps achieve better cross
browser rendering, as well as lists which are semantically, but not
presentationally, a list (i.e., navigation lists).
For the font size, under normal circumstances, use only percent or ems.
(Were it properly supported, you could also use exs, but afaik, all
browsers just use 2ex=1em.) When pixels are use, IE users cant change
the font size to allow for easier reading. You may also want to increase
the line-height as it too, makes reading easier.
3. Text-align: center set to center the page in Internet Explorer 5.0 &
5.5
If you have an extra style sheet for IE (hidden using conditional
comments), you might want to put this hack there. Also, don't forget to
reset the alignment.
4. Margins must be set to "0" & "auto" in order to center-align a
fixed-width layout in IE6, Firefox, Mozilla, Netscape and Opera.
You're right about setting left and right to "auto", but there's no need
to set top and bottom to 0 (unless you want to).
5. Placing "margin: 0 auto" in the declaration block for the body rule
doesn't center-align the layout therefore this particluar declaration
must be placed inside an "ID" and applied to a wrapper or container div.
Wrong; the setting goes in the body in order to center the container in
IE<6.
HTH
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:00:46 -0400, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Good day all,
I'm conducting a course in CSS at the local community college, and the
students are sincerely interested in web standards
Some people who are interested in web standards advocate using relative
font-size methods.
and designing with CSS instead of tables.
[...]
body
{margin: 0;
padding: 0;
text-align: center;
font: normal *12px* verdana, arial, sans-serif;
background: #fff;}
[...]
Regards,
David Laakso
--
http://www.dlaakso.com/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Thanks Ben, I've prefer to place the text-align: left and/or justify in
the div's designated for each column.
#leftcolumn
{width: 350px;
float: left;
text-align: justify;
margin-left: 8px;
background: #fff;}
#rightcolumn
{width: 210px;
float: right;
text-align: left;
font-size: 10px;
background: #fff;
margin-right: 3px;
border: 1px solid #66;
padding: 2px 5px;}
Kind regards,
Mario
> You'd need a "text-align: left;" in the #container otherwise the all the
> content within it will be centered.
>
> On 6/17/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Good day all,
>>
>> I'm conducting a course in CSS at the local community college, and the
>> students are sincerely interested in web standards and designing with
>> CSS instead of tables.
>>
>> One question that continues to come up is how to successfully
>> center-align a fixed width layout in today's modern browsers. Here's
>> my feedback, which I'd like anyone to review and challenge where
>> applicable:
>>
>> The basic CSS syntax is as follows:
>> html
>> {height: 100%;
>> margin-bottom: 1px;}
>>
>> body
>> {margin: 0;
>> padding: 0;
>> text-align: center;
>> font: normal 12px verdana, arial, sans-serif;
>> background: #fff;}
>>
>> #container
>> {margin: 0 auto;
>> width: 760px;}
>>
>> I discuss the construction of two and three column layouts, floating
>> columns, clearing floats, headers, footers etc. but the crux of my
>> input is centering the webpage.
>>
>> 1. Margins set to 0 in order to eliminate default margins in IE,
>> Firefox, Mozilla and Netscape.
>>
>> 2. Padding set to "0" in order to eliminate default padding in Opera.
>>
>> 3. Text-align: center set to center the page in Internet Explorer 5.0
>> & 5.5
>>
>> 4. Margins must be set to "0" & "auto" in order to center-align a
>> fixed-width layout in IE6, Firefox, Mozilla, Netscape and Opera.
>>
>> 5. Placing "margin: 0 auto" in the declaration block for the body rule
>> doesn't center-align the layout therefore this particluar declaration
>> must be placed inside an "ID" and applied to a wrapper or container
>> div.
>>
>> Any opinions, suggestions or direction is very much appreciated!
>>
>> Respectfully submitted,
>> Mario S. Cisneros
>>
>>
>>
>> **
>> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>>
>> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
>> **
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ben Wong
> e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> w: http://blog.onehero.net
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
You'd need a "text-align: left;" in the #container otherwise the all the content within it will be centered.On 6/17/05,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Good day all,I'm conducting a course in CSS at the local community college, and thestudents are sincerely interested in web standards and designing withCSS instead of tables.One question that continues to come up is how to successfully
center-align a fixed width layout in today's modern browsers. Here's myfeedback, which I'd like anyone to review and challenge whereapplicable:The basic CSS syntax is as follows:html{height: 100%;
margin-bottom: 1px;}body{margin: 0; padding: 0; text-align: center; font: normal 12px verdana, arial, sans-serif; background: #fff;}#container{margin: 0 auto; width: 760px;}
I discuss the construction of two and three column layouts, floatingcolumns, clearing floats, headers, footers etc. but the crux of my inputis centering the webpage.1. Margins set to 0 in order to eliminate default margins in IE,
Firefox, Mozilla and Netscape.2. Padding set to "0" in order to eliminate default padding in Opera.3. Text-align: center set to center the page in Internet Explorer 5.0 &5.54. Margins must be set to "0" & "auto" in order to center-align a
fixed-width layout in IE6, Firefox, Mozilla, Netscape and Opera.5. Placing "margin: 0 auto" in the declaration block for the body ruledoesn't center-align the layout therefore this particluar declaration
must be placed inside an "ID" and applied to a wrapper or container div.Any opinions, suggestions or direction is very much appreciated!Respectfully submitted,Mario S. Cisneros
**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**-- Ben Wong
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]w: http://blog.onehero.net
[WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Good day all,
I'm conducting a course in CSS at the local community college, and the
students are sincerely interested in web standards and designing with
CSS instead of tables.
One question that continues to come up is how to successfully
center-align a fixed width layout in today's modern browsers. Here's my
feedback, which I'd like anyone to review and challenge where
applicable:
The basic CSS syntax is as follows:
html
{height: 100%;
margin-bottom: 1px;}
body
{margin: 0;
padding: 0;
text-align: center;
font: normal 12px verdana, arial, sans-serif;
background: #fff;}
#container
{margin: 0 auto;
width: 760px;}
I discuss the construction of two and three column layouts, floating
columns, clearing floats, headers, footers etc. but the crux of my input
is centering the webpage.
1. Margins set to 0 in order to eliminate default margins in IE,
Firefox, Mozilla and Netscape.
2. Padding set to "0" in order to eliminate default padding in Opera.
3. Text-align: center set to center the page in Internet Explorer 5.0 &
5.5
4. Margins must be set to "0" & "auto" in order to center-align a
fixed-width layout in IE6, Firefox, Mozilla, Netscape and Opera.
5. Placing "margin: 0 auto" in the declaration block for the body rule
doesn't center-align the layout therefore this particluar declaration
must be placed inside an "ID" and applied to a wrapper or container div.
Any opinions, suggestions or direction is very much appreciated!
Respectfully submitted,
Mario S. Cisneros
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID
Wow thanks for the great responses people! Love this list :) Cheers, solved all my problems with that question :) Paul Novitski wrote: At 06:23 PM 1/12/05, Chris Stratford wrote: I was asked for the first time yesterday, what the big difference and advantage to using an ID over a CLASS was... Chris, With regard to our intentions as scripters, what you and everyone else has said applies: ids are unique, classes are generic, and we should apply one or the other according to our understanding of the uniqueness of the object in the page structure. At the same time, if I'm in an ambiguous situation in which I'm not sure whether to use id or class -- say because I've only got one instance of the object and I'm not sure whether there will ever be siblings -- I might choose id simply for reasons of speculative browser efficiency: From a software mechanic's point of view, using id might be much faster than using class even if only one object is involved. [This difference in speed might or might not be too slim to be humanly perceptible.] I can easily imagine a browser resolving an id more quickly than a class. Within its memory structure there's likely just one position reserved for a given id, so that, when an id is referred to and the browser searches its internal index for a match, it will stop at the first match. In contrast, depending on how efficiently or inefficiently the browser has indexed objects by class, it may have to search the entire document object tree each time a classname is referenced to ensure that it catches all instances. Even if it's created a length-tagged array of objects with a given class, it's probably going to require a bit more processing to walk an array of even one member than it will have done to match a single unique id. But pay no mind: this kind of thinking is very Old School. Why, way back in dem olden times, we had to pay attention to machine cycles because it really affected response time on a human scale. Nowadays everything runs so fast we can just focus on how to do things right and not worry about how long it takes the computer to do it. Mmm, hmm! Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 12/01/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID
At 06:23 PM 1/12/05, Chris Stratford wrote: I was asked for the first time yesterday, what the big difference and advantage to using an ID over a CLASS was... Chris, With regard to our intentions as scripters, what you and everyone else has said applies: ids are unique, classes are generic, and we should apply one or the other according to our understanding of the uniqueness of the object in the page structure. At the same time, if I'm in an ambiguous situation in which I'm not sure whether to use id or class -- say because I've only got one instance of the object and I'm not sure whether there will ever be siblings -- I might choose id simply for reasons of speculative browser efficiency: From a software mechanic's point of view, using id might be much faster than using class even if only one object is involved. [This difference in speed might or might not be too slim to be humanly perceptible.] I can easily imagine a browser resolving an id more quickly than a class. Within its memory structure there's likely just one position reserved for a given id, so that, when an id is referred to and the browser searches its internal index for a match, it will stop at the first match. In contrast, depending on how efficiently or inefficiently the browser has indexed objects by class, it may have to search the entire document object tree each time a classname is referenced to ensure that it catches all instances. Even if it's created a length-tagged array of objects with a given class, it's probably going to require a bit more processing to walk an array of even one member than it will have done to match a single unique id. But pay no mind: this kind of thinking is very Old School. Why, way back in dem olden times, we had to pay attention to machine cycles because it really affected response time on a human scale. Nowadays everything runs so fast we can just focus on how to do things right and not worry about how long it takes the computer to do it. Mmm, hmm! Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID
What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID?? My explanation for the existance of IDs in CSS is simply that if IDs are there to be used in HTML, then they need to be there in CSS too. In other words, if you're sitting there with your own HTML document and you're wondering what's the difference between using an ID and a class to style one particular element, there really isn't one. But if you're in control only of the CSS document, trying to style a page created by someone else, or otherwise beyond your control, and they've used IDs for whatever reason, the CSS syntax allows you to do that too. "Have You Validated Your Code?" John Horner(+612 / 02) 9333 3488 Senior Developer, ABC Online http://www.abc.net.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID
Chris Stratford wrote: What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID?? Besides the benefits of greater CSS selector specificity than classes and its use as a target for URLs, ids also convey a semantic value which is different than a class and can be referred to via scripting (getElementById). ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID
Chris Stratford wrote:
What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID??
No measurable advantage, but it's a question of principle and
appropriateness: if something is unique (e.g. your page will only ever
have one header, footer, main navigation bar, content area, etc), then
ID is the most suitable attribute to use.
Sure, you could just use classes, or - at the other extreme - define
lots of unique IDs like #item1, #item2, #item3 and then define something
like #item1,#item2,#item3 { /* some CSS */ } and of course it would
work...but it's really not following the idea behind ID and class.
--
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
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**
RE: [WSG] Class -vs- ID
another difference between classes and ids are that IDs have a higher specificity than classes. If a class's properties conflicted with an ID's properties, the ID would take precedence over the class. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris Stratford Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:23 PM To: WSG Subject: [WSG] Class -vs- ID Just wondering. I was asked for the first time yesterday, what the big difference and advantage to using an ID over a CLASS was... I know why classes are good! What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID?? I know these facts, Only 1 usage per ID per page... Classes are unlimited, and you can assing Multiple classes to each entity too... So... Why? -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 12/01/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.804 / Virus Database: 546 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.804 / Virus Database: 546 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID
BTW I know IDs are needed for LABELS and other FORM elements. :) Cheers Chris Stratford wrote: Just wondering. I was asked for the first time yesterday, what the big difference and advantage to using an ID over a CLASS was... I know why classes are good! What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID?? I know these facts, Only 1 usage per ID per page... Classes are unlimited, and you can assing Multiple classes to each entity too... So... Why? -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 12/01/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID
IDs have higher specificity is another. You can link/anchor to them that way. Cheers Jeff On 13/1/05 1:23 PM, "Chris Stratford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just wondering. > I was asked for the first time yesterday, what the big difference and > advantage to using an ID over a CLASS was... > I know why classes are good! > > What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID?? > > I know these facts, > Only 1 usage per ID per page... > Classes are unlimited, and you can assing Multiple classes to each > entity too... > > So... > Why? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Class -vs- ID
Just wondering. I was asked for the first time yesterday, what the big difference and advantage to using an ID over a CLASS was... I know why classes are good! What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID?? I know these facts, Only 1 usage per ID per page... Classes are unlimited, and you can assing Multiple classes to each entity too... So... Why? -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 12/01/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
