Re: [WSG] Web governance
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Re: [WSG] Web governance
Return Receipt Your Re: [WSG] Web governance document: wasBrendan Halloran/BusServices/DSD received by: at:28/11/2008 09:37:33 AM * Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development,Government of Victoria, Victoria, Australia. This e-mail and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not distribute reproduce this e-mail the attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by return e-mail. *- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web governance
Return Receipt Your Re: [WSG] Web governance document: wasBrendan Halloran/BusServices/DSD received by: at:28/11/2008 09:35:46 AM * Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development,Government of Victoria, Victoria, Australia. This e-mail and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not distribute reproduce this e-mail the attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by return e-mail. *- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web governance
Return Receipt Your Re: [WSG] Web governance document: wasLisa Kerrigan/StateDevPolicy/DSD received by: at:28/11/2008 09:23:17 AM * Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development,Government of Victoria, Victoria, Australia. This e-mail and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not distribute reproduce this e-mail the attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by return e-mail. *- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web governance
Andrew, I feel that you have hit one of the Big Problems, and perhaps many feel overwhelmed at its breadth (as do I - I've been pondering it for a few days). Others may have differing views and experiences, but a lack of governance and adherence to standards may be a symptom of corporate immaturity, political power struggles or, unfortunately, ignorance. Other contributing factors may be; • AGIMO’s “suggestions” for best practice not being mandated and • ongoing costs for bespoke development and maintenance of usability, accessibility, corporate branding and systems interoperability. If effectively empowered within the organisation, Information Management should be promoting an integrated, compliant and best practice information environment. It may be an appropriate department to be engaged in this – sitting in the policy area between the executive, auditing, marketing or IT. I hope this gives some food for thought, Peter Hislop - Original Message - From: Andrew R To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:13 PM Subject: [WSG] Web governance I realise the list is very much about nuts and bolt of standards. So this might not be the right place for this posting and might be deemed to be ‘off topic’. If it is please ignore! I work in a large (lumbering) Australian federal government agency. My colleges in the web publishing section see developing standards compliant web sites as normal professional practice. However, some other parts of the organisation, mainly ‘traditional’ developers in the IT section, simply don’t get it. The outcome of this is some of the organisation’s web based applications are riddled with problems caused by poor coding practices. These manifest themselves as accessibility issues, difficulties with cross browser compatibility, and significant bottle necks applying updates to branding and presentation. The problems are steadily growing as the organisation builds more and more web interfaces to various applications and systems. To date the web section has taken the approach of trying to work with the developers in the IT area to help them understand the techniques and benefits web standards. However, this has been problematic because there is a lack of more formal mechanisms to enforce compliances. This brings me on to my question for the group. I’m currently looking for web channel governance models suitable for applying in a large public sector organisation that is moving towards significant delivery of services on-line. Can anyone give me some pointers, do have something that works in your organsiation, etc? The few models that I have found are geared at managing inter/intra net sites with a strong emphasis on managing content publishing and how this is used as a communication/marketing tool. For example http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.html. This approach tends to place the Marketing sections as the owner and avoids engagement with an organisation’s IT area. The problem is online services delivery is much bigger then the traditional ‘communications’ business activities, they cut across many parts of the organisation and require complex integration with other systems. Help! Andrew -- Get the best wallpapers on the Web – FREE. Click here! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web governance
Andrew, Seeing you have not had any other ideas presented, how about: a) Using the Web Style Guide as a basis for creating your own web style guide for the agency? http://webstyleguide.com/ The 2nd Edition is available online. The 3rd Edition is available for purchase. b) You could also use the Chicago Manual of Style Online for some ideas. http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/home.html c) Add that the website has to follow the chosen W3C spec. and validate. You can also Google web style guide and web style guide examples to see other web style guides that have been developed. Ask if the agency has a style guide already for the printed and marketing materials. You can incorporate the applicable parts into the web style guide (e.g. logo use, colour scheme) Hope that helps get you started at least. S. Emerson Accrete Web Solutions http://www.accretewebsolutions.ca *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web governance
On Nov 24, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Andrew R wrote: Can anyone give me some pointers, do have something that works in your organsiation, etc? I'm afraid I can't offer help, just let you know I'm another companion in pain. This is a problem that seems to be almost universal, in organizations large and small, government and business. I work for a small local government (public library) in the US and actually was reprimanded in my annual performance review for advocating accessibility and adherence to standards... So I, too, would love to hear of any strategies that have worked to change organizational development practices, and ways in which those changes may have been institutionalized. cheers, Andrew www.andrewmaben.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] "In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions." *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web governance
Here I am writing from the other side of the fence. I find that some of the barriers to communication are rooted in the two different 'cultures' of the two streams. I recently had to work with a admittedly junior web developer to upgrade static HTML pages associated with a web application which my group supports. I mentioned to him that if he intended to change file structure he needed to let me know right away so I could make parallel adjustments on the application side. Silence for 1 month followed by the return of the revised files in a completely new file structure with all the the testing environment dependent links changes to hard coded production links. When challenged, he criticized the IT side for the slowness of posting time. After all their web designers aim to get their changes made to production in under 24 hours from the time they are requested. SO... the whole job had to be done again - old file structure restored, testing environment dependent links restored - and you can guess it wasn't the 'web guy' doing it :) These are the experiences that poison the well for worthwhile co-operation. Both sides have stuff to learn from each other. I feel fortunate that I have a foot on each horse. Somedays that spangled suit I am wearing just doesn't seem that glamourous when trying to explain to either side why they insist on doing things differently from each other when judged by their own experiences it is patently unnecessary. Agh. Thanks for listening. Climbing down from my soapbox now :) Mary Krieger *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web governance
Hi Andrew When you have the answer, can you email through to me. Nice/horrible to see the federal gov has the same issues as the state govs... Lisa Kerrigan Manager Content & User Experience www.business.vic.gov.au www.diird.vic.gov.au 03 9651 9176 Andrew R <[EMAIL PROTECTED] .com> To Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc sgroup.org Subject [WSG] Web governance 24/11/2008 04:13 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] roup.org I realise the list is very much about nuts and bolt of standards. So this might not be the right place for this posting and might be deemed to be ‘off topic’. If it is please ignore! I work in a large (lumbering) Australian federal government agency. My colleges in the web publishing section see developing standards compliant web sites as normal professional practice. However, some other parts of the organisation, mainly ‘traditional’ developers in the IT section, simply don’t get it. The outcome of this is some of the organisation’s web based applications are riddled with problems caused by poor coding practices. These manifest themselves as accessibility issues, difficulties with cross browser compatibility, and significant bottle necks applying updates to branding and presentation. The problems are steadily growing as the organisation builds more and more web interfaces to various applications and systems. To date the web section has taken the approach of trying to work with the developers in the IT area to help them understand the techniques and benefits web standards. However, this has been problematic because there is a lack of more formal mechanisms to enforce compliances. This brings me on to my question for the group. I’m currently looking for web channel governance models suitable for applying in a large public sector organisation that is moving towards significant delivery of services on-line. Can anyone give me some pointers, do have something that works in your organsiation, etc? The few models that I have found are geared at managing inter/intra net sites with a strong emphasis on managing content publishing and how this is used as a communication/marketing tool. For example http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.html . This approach tends to place the Marketing sections as the owner and avoids engagement with an organisation’s IT area. The problem is online services delivery is much bigger then the traditional ‘communications’ business activities, they cut across many parts of the organisation and require complex integration with other systems. Help! Andrew Get the best wallpapers on the Web – FREE. Click here! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** * Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development,Government of Victoria, Victoria, Australia. This e-mail and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not distribute reproduce this e-mail the attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by return e-mail. *- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
THREAD CLOSED (well, the off topic part) Re: [WSG] Web governance
On topic? no way! Tony is no longer with us. Bye bye Tony! Don't let the door hit you on the way out! But - please continue discussion of the 'web governance' topic. 'How to move to Web Standards' is certainly on topic :) What do you think of the issues Andrew is facing? What have you done in similar situations? Lea -- Lea de Groot WSG Core Member On 24/11/2008, at 3:58 PM, Tony Paterson wrote: Ladies and Gents I am seeking JV partners for some of our company's websites If you have any interest please call or email me Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web governance - IGNORE POST
ADMIN Please ignore this post. Focus on the initial question post by Andrew. For those wondering, this post is wrong for two reasons: 1. totally unrelated to list purpose 2. hijacked an existing thread for totally unrelated topic. Thanks Russ on 24/11/08 4:58 PM, Tony Paterson at wrote: > Ladies and Gents > I am seeking JV partners for some of our company¹s websites > If you have any interest please call or email me > Cheers > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Web governance
On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 16:58 +1100, Tony Paterson wrote: > Ladies and Gents > > I am seeking JV partners for some of our company’s websites > > If you have any interest please call or email me And how is that even vaguely related to web standards, let alone the question posed? None of your site validate, and they all have their underwear showing [1], so I suspect you are looking in the wrong place for partners. In future please keep your spam to yourself. Cheers Dave [1] http://www.zeldman.com/2008/11/07/is-your-websites-underwear-showing/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Web governance
Ladies and Gents I am seeking JV partners for some of our company's websites If you have any interest please call or email me Cheers Tony Paterson Tel. 03 5981 4457 Our other great sites now include:- www.DirectoryAustralia.com- Can you be found?- are you listed? Why Not it's free! <http://www.ozengine.com/> www.Postcodes.com.au easy to find postcodes and cities and towns. <http://www.sportaustralia.com.au/> www.SportAustralia.com.au where every local sporting club can have a webpage for free and there are more to sites to choose from cricket, football, netball and more <http://www.cars.com.au/> www.Classifieds.com.au free to advertise (new site coming soon) accommodationasia.com world wide at the best prices www.Cars.com.au where the best and motoring clubs can earn $$$ also see site for details <http://www.e-cards.com.au/> www.e-cards.com.au send that special someone a card it's free and more to come Alliances & Business Partner? See <http://www.e-info.com.au/> www.e-info.com.au (joint ventures) send request to <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew R Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Web governance I realise the list is very much about nuts and bolt of standards. So this might not be the right place for this posting and might be deemed to be 'off topic'. If it is please ignore! I work in a large (lumbering) Australian federal government agency. My colleges in the web publishing section see developing standards compliant web sites as normal professional practice. However, some other parts of the organisation, mainly 'traditional' developers in the IT section, simply don't get it. The outcome of this is some of the organisation's web based applications are riddled with problems caused by poor coding practices. These manifest themselves as accessibility issues, difficulties with cross browser compatibility, and significant bottle necks applying updates to branding and presentation. The problems are steadily growing as the organisation builds more and more web interfaces to various applications and systems. To date the web section has taken the approach of trying to work with the developers in the IT area to help them understand the techniques and benefits web standards. However, this has been problematic because there is a lack of more formal mechanisms to enforce compliances. This brings me on to my question for the group. I'm currently looking for web channel governance models suitable for applying in a large public sector organisation that is moving towards significant delivery of services on-line. Can anyone give me some pointers, do have something that works in your organsiation, etc? The few models that I have found are geared at managing inter/intra net sites with a strong emphasis on managing content publishing and how this is used as a communication/marketing tool. For example <http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.ht ml> http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.htm l. This approach tends to place the Marketing sections as the owner and avoids engagement with an organisation's IT area. The problem is online services delivery is much bigger then the traditional 'communications' business activities, they cut across many parts of the organisation and require complex integration with other systems. Help! Andrew _ Get the best wallpapers on the Web - FREE. Click <http://wallpapers.msn.com/?ocid=%5bB001MSN42A0716B%5d> here! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Web governance
I realise the list is very much about nuts and bolt of standards. So this might not be the right place for this posting and might be deemed to be ‘off topic’. If it is please ignore! I work in a large (lumbering) Australian federal government agency. My colleges in the web publishing section see developing standards compliant web sites as normal professional practice. However, some other parts of the organisation, mainly ‘traditional’ developers in the IT section, simply don’t get it. The outcome of this is some of the organisation’s web based applications are riddled with problems caused by poor coding practices. These manifest themselves as accessibility issues, difficulties with cross browser compatibility, and significant bottle necks applying updates to branding and presentation. The problems are steadily growing as the organisation builds more and more web interfaces to various applications and systems. To date the web section has taken the approach of trying to work with the developers in the IT area to help them understand the techniques and benefits web standards. However, this has been problematic because there is a lack of more formal mechanisms to enforce compliances. This brings me on to my question for the group. I’m currently looking for web channel governance models suitable for applying in a large public sector organisation that is moving towards significant delivery of services on-line. Can anyone give me some pointers, do have something that works in your organsiation, etc? The few models that I have found are geared at managing inter/intra net sites with a strong emphasis on managing content publishing and how this is used as a communication/marketing tool. For example http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.html. This approach tends to place the Marketing sections as the owner and avoids engagement with an organisation’s IT area. The problem is online services delivery is much bigger then the traditional ‘communications’ business activities, they cut across many parts of the organisation and require complex integration with other systems. Help! Andrew _ Win £1000 John Lewis shopping sprees with BigSnapSearch.com http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/117442309/direct/01/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***