Re: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-27 Thread Peter Hislop
Andrew,

 

I feel that you have hit one of the Big Problems, and perhaps many feel 
overwhelmed at its breadth (as do I - I've been pondering it for a few days).

 

Others may have differing views and experiences, but a lack of governance and 
adherence to standards may be a symptom of corporate immaturity, political 
power struggles or, unfortunately, ignorance. 

 

Other contributing factors may be;

•  AGIMO’s “suggestions” for best practice not being mandated and

•  ongoing costs for bespoke development and maintenance of usability, 
accessibility, corporate branding and systems interoperability.

 

If effectively empowered within the organisation, Information Management should 
be promoting an integrated, compliant and best practice information 
environment. It may be an appropriate department to be engaged in this – 
sitting in the policy area between the executive, auditing, marketing or IT.

 

I hope this gives some food for thought,

 

Peter Hislop



  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew R 
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:13 PM
  Subject: [WSG] Web governance


  I realise the list is very much about nuts and bolt of standards. So this 
might not be the right place for this posting and might be deemed to be ‘off 
topic’. If it is please ignore!

   

  I work in a large (lumbering) Australian federal government agency. My 
colleges in the web publishing section see developing standards compliant web 
sites as normal professional practice. However, some other parts of the 
organisation, mainly ‘traditional’ developers in the IT section, simply don’t 
get it. The outcome of this is some of the organisation’s web based 
applications are riddled with problems caused by poor coding practices. These 
manifest themselves as accessibility issues, difficulties with cross browser 
compatibility, and significant bottle necks applying updates to branding and 
presentation. The problems are steadily growing as the organisation builds more 
and more web interfaces to various applications and systems.

   

  To date the web section has taken the approach of trying to work with the 
developers in the IT area to help them understand the techniques and benefits 
web standards. However, this has been problematic because there is a lack of 
more formal mechanisms to enforce compliances.

   

  This brings me on to my question for the group. I’m currently looking for web 
channel governance models suitable for applying in a large public sector 
organisation that is moving towards significant delivery of services on-line. 
Can anyone give me some pointers, do have something that works in your 
organsiation, etc?

   

  The few models that I have found are geared at managing inter/intra net sites 
with a strong emphasis on managing content publishing and how this is used as a 
communication/marketing tool. For example 
http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.html. 
This approach tends to place the Marketing sections as the owner and avoids 
engagement with an organisation’s IT area.  The problem is online services 
delivery is much bigger then the traditional ‘communications’ business 
activities, they cut across many parts of the organisation and require complex 
integration with other systems. 

   

  Help!

   
  Andrew

   


   



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Re: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-27 Thread lisa . kerrigan
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Re: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-27 Thread brendan . halloran
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Re: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-27 Thread mark . greed
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Re: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-25 Thread S.R. Emerson
Andrew,
Seeing you have not had any other ideas presented, how about:

a)  Using the Web Style Guide as a basis for creating your own web style guide 
for the agency?  http://webstyleguide.com/  The 2nd Edition is available 
online.  The 3rd Edition is available for purchase.
b)  You could also use the Chicago Manual of Style Online for some ideas.  
http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/home.html
c)  Add that the website has to follow the chosen W3C spec. and validate.

You can also Google web style guide and web style guide examples to see other 
web style guides that have been developed.

Ask if the agency has a style guide already for the printed and marketing 
materials.  You can incorporate the applicable parts into the web style guide 
(e.g. logo use, colour scheme)

Hope that helps get you started at least.

S. Emerson
Accrete Web Solutions
http://www.accretewebsolutions.ca


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Re: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-24 Thread Mary Krieger

Here I am writing from the other side of the fence.

I find that some of the barriers to communication are rooted in the two 
different 'cultures' of the two streams.


I recently had to work with a admittedly junior web developer to upgrade 
static HTML pages associated with a web application which my group supports.


I mentioned to him that if he intended to change file structure he 
needed to let me know right away so I could make parallel adjustments on 
the application side.


Silence for 1 month followed by the return of the revised files in a 
completely new file structure with all the the testing environment 
dependent links changes to hard coded production links.


When challenged, he criticized the IT side for the slowness of posting 
time. After all their web designers aim to get their changes made to 
production in under 24 hours from the time they are requested.


SO... the whole job had to be done again - old file structure restored, 
testing environment dependent links restored - and you can guess it 
wasn't the 'web guy' doing it :)


These are the experiences that poison the well for worthwhile 
co-operation. Both sides have stuff to learn from each other.


I feel fortunate that I have a foot on each horse. Somedays that 
spangled suit I am wearing just doesn't seem that glamourous when trying 
to explain to either side why they insist on doing things differently 
from each other when judged by their own experiences it is patently 
unnecessary. Agh.


Thanks for listening. Climbing down from my soapbox now :)

Mary Krieger





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Re: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-24 Thread Andrew Maben


On Nov 24, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Andrew R wrote:


Can anyone give me some pointers, do have something that works in
your organsiation, etc?


I'm afraid I can't offer help, just let you know I'm another  
companion in pain. This is a problem that seems to be almost  
universal, in organizations large and small, government and business.


I work for a small local government (public library) in the US and  
actually was reprimanded in my annual performance review for  
advocating accessibility and adherence to standards...


So I, too, would love to hear of any strategies that have worked to  
change organizational development practices, and ways in which those  
changes may have been institutionalized.


cheers,

Andrew

www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

In a well designed user interface, the user should not need  
instructions.







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[WSG] Web governance

2008-11-23 Thread Andrew R
 

I realise the list is very much about nuts and bolt of standards. So this might 
not be the right place for this posting and might be deemed to be ‘off topic’. 
If it is please ignore!
 
I work in a large (lumbering) Australian federal government agency. My colleges 
in the web publishing section see developing standards compliant web sites as 
normal professional practice. However, some other parts of the organisation, 
mainly ‘traditional’ developers in the IT section, simply don’t get it. The 
outcome of this is some of the organisation’s web based applications are 
riddled with problems caused by poor coding practices. These manifest 
themselves as accessibility issues, difficulties with cross browser 
compatibility, and significant bottle necks applying updates to branding and 
presentation. The problems are steadily growing as the organisation builds more 
and more web interfaces to various applications and systems.
 
To date the web section has taken the approach of trying to work with the 
developers in the IT area to help them understand the techniques and benefits 
web standards. However, this has been problematic because there is a lack of 
more formal mechanisms to enforce compliances.
 
This brings me on to my question for the group. I’m currently looking for web 
channel governance models suitable for applying in a large public sector 
organisation that is moving towards significant delivery of services on-line. 
Can anyone give me some pointers, do have something that works in your 
organsiation, etc?
 
The few models that I have found are geared at managing inter/intra net sites 
with a strong emphasis on managing content publishing and how this is used as a 
communication/marketing tool. For example 
http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.html. 
This approach tends to place the Marketing sections as the owner and avoids 
engagement with an organisation’s IT area.  The problem is online services 
delivery is much bigger then the traditional ‘communications’ business 
activities, they cut across many parts of the organisation and require complex 
integration with other systems. 
 
Help!
 
Andrew
 
 
_
Win £1000 John Lewis shopping sprees with BigSnapSearch.com
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/117442309/direct/01/

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RE: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-23 Thread Tony Paterson
Ladies and Gents 
I am seeking JV partners for some of our company's websites
If you have any interest please call or email me
Cheers
 
 
Tony Paterson
Tel. 03 5981 4457 
Our other great sites now include:-
www.DirectoryAustralia.com- Can you be found?- are you listed? Why Not it's
free!
 http://www.ozengine.com/ www.Postcodes.com.au  easy to find postcodes and
cities and towns.
 http://www.sportaustralia.com.au/ www.SportAustralia.com.au  where every
local sporting club can  have a webpage for free and there are more to sites
to choose from cricket, football, netball and more
 http://www.cars.com.au/ www.Classifieds.com.au free to advertise (new
site coming soon)
accommodationasia.com world wide at the best prices
www.Cars.com.au where the best and motoring clubs can earn $$$ also see site
for details
 http://www.e-cards.com.au/ www.e-cards.com.au send that special someone a
card it's free
and more to come  
Alliances  Business Partner?  See  http://www.e-info.com.au/
www.e-info.com.au  (joint ventures) send request to
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew R
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:14 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Web governance
 
I realise the list is very much about nuts and bolt of standards. So this
might not be the right place for this posting and might be deemed to be 'off
topic'. If it is please ignore!
 
I work in a large (lumbering) Australian federal government agency. My
colleges in the web publishing section see developing standards compliant
web sites as normal professional practice. However, some other parts of the
organisation, mainly 'traditional' developers in the IT section, simply
don't get it. The outcome of this is some of the organisation's web based
applications are riddled with problems caused by poor coding practices.
These manifest themselves as accessibility issues, difficulties with cross
browser compatibility, and significant bottle necks applying updates to
branding and presentation. The problems are steadily growing as the
organisation builds more and more web interfaces to various applications and
systems.
 
To date the web section has taken the approach of trying to work with the
developers in the IT area to help them understand the techniques and
benefits web standards. However, this has been problematic because there is
a lack of more formal mechanisms to enforce compliances.
 
This brings me on to my question for the group. I'm currently looking for
web channel governance models suitable for applying in a large public sector
organisation that is moving towards significant delivery of services
on-line. Can anyone give me some pointers, do have something that works in
your organsiation, etc?
 
The few models that I have found are geared at managing inter/intra net
sites with a strong emphasis on managing content publishing and how this is
used as a communication/marketing tool. For example
http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.ht
ml
http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.htm
l. This approach tends to place the Marketing sections as the owner and
avoids engagement with an organisation's IT area.  The problem is online
services delivery is much bigger then the traditional 'communications'
business activities, they cut across many parts of the organisation and
require complex integration with other systems. 
 
Help!
 
Andrew
 

 
 
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RE: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-23 Thread Dave Hall
On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 16:58 +1100, Tony Paterson wrote:
 Ladies and Gents 
 
 I am seeking JV partners for some of our company’s websites
 
 If you have any interest please call or email me

And how is that even vaguely related to web standards, let alone the
question posed?

None of your site validate, and they all have their underwear showing
[1], so I suspect you are looking in the wrong place for partners.

In future please keep your spam to yourself.

Cheers

Dave

[1]
http://www.zeldman.com/2008/11/07/is-your-websites-underwear-showing/



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Re: [WSG] Web governance - IGNORE POST

2008-11-23 Thread russ - maxdesign
ADMIN

Please ignore this post. Focus on the initial question post by Andrew.

For those wondering, this post is wrong for two reasons:
1. totally unrelated to list purpose
2. hijacked an existing thread for totally unrelated topic.

Thanks
Russ



on 24/11/08 4:58 PM, Tony Paterson at wrote:

 Ladies and Gents 
 I am seeking JV partners for some of our company¹s websites
 If you have any interest please call or email me
 Cheers
  
  




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THREAD CLOSED (well, the off topic part) Re: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-23 Thread Lea de Groot

On topic? no way!
Tony is no longer with us. Bye bye Tony! Don't let the door hit you on  
the way out!


But - please continue discussion of the 'web governance' topic.
'How to move to Web Standards' is certainly on topic :)
What do you think of the issues Andrew is facing?
What have you done in similar situations?

Lea
--
Lea de Groot
WSG Core Member


On 24/11/2008, at 3:58 PM, Tony Paterson wrote:


Ladies and Gents
I am seeking JV partners for some of our company's websites
If you have any interest please call or email me
Cheers




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Re: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-23 Thread lisa . kerrigan
Hi Andrew

When you have the answer, can you email through to me. Nice/horrible to see
the federal gov has the same issues as the state govs...


Lisa Kerrigan
Manager Content  User Experience
www.business.vic.gov.au
www.diird.vic.gov.au
03 9651 9176


   
 Andrew R  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 .com  To 
 Sent by:  wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  cc 
 sgroup.org
   Subject 
   [WSG] Web governance
 24/11/2008 04:13  
 PM
   
   
 Please respond to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 roup.org  
   
   




I realise the list is very much about nuts and bolt of standards. So this
might not be the right place for this posting and might be deemed to be
‘off topic’. If it is please ignore!

I work in a large (lumbering) Australian federal government agency. My
colleges in the web publishing section see developing standards compliant
web sites as normal professional practice. However, some other parts of the
organisation, mainly ‘traditional’ developers in the IT section, simply
don’t get it. The outcome of this is some of the organisation’s web based
applications are riddled with problems caused by poor coding practices.
These manifest themselves as accessibility issues, difficulties with cross
browser compatibility, and significant bottle necks applying updates to
branding and presentation. The problems are steadily growing as the
organisation builds more and more web interfaces to various applications
and systems.

To date the web section has taken the approach of trying to work with the
developers in the IT area to help them understand the techniques and
benefits web standards. However, this has been problematic because there is
a lack of more formal mechanisms to enforce compliances.

This brings me on to my question for the group. I’m currently looking for
web channel governance models suitable for applying in a large public
sector organisation that is moving towards significant delivery of services
on-line. Can anyone give me some pointers, do have something that works in
your organsiation, etc?

The few models that I have found are geared at managing inter/intra net
sites with a strong emphasis on managing content publishing and how this is
used as a communication/marketing tool. For example
http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.html
. This approach tends to place the Marketing sections as the owner and
avoids engagement with an organisation’s IT area.  The problem is online
services delivery is much bigger then the traditional ‘communications’
business activities, they cut across many parts of the organisation and
require complex integration with other systems.

Help!



Andrew






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