Re: [WSG] ordered list for events

[Kristof Neirynck]

russ weakley wrote:
Many ways to skin a cat. A standard table is acceptable but so is a
definition list:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/peterottery.htm
You could use negative margins to avoid the 3px bug that occurs when 
floating the dt's in msiewin.



The big disadvantage is the left-over space at the bottom.
Everything that directly follows the dl will overlap it.
--
Kristof
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Re: [WSG] ordered list for events

[Gary Menzel]

> There's nothing wrong with tables, provided they are used for tabular
> data like rather than layout.
>
> webmail entries,
> invoices and payments etc
> medal tallies (in case you do Smiggins Holes 2010 Winter Olympics site)
> etc etc

And why not a table of events ? (as in this instance)

First column is "event date", second column is "event title".  The rows
are the events.

It if looks like a table and smells like a table..

I have seen a lot of wonderful stuff in the last 6 months done with HTML
and CSS.

I have also seen a lot of horrid efforts to change things into things that
they dont need to be.

[No offence Peter] But I just cannot see myself marking up that event data
in anything but a table - unless I wanted to display it in some other way
(that would be a different story all together - but my first instinct
would be to call that data tabular unless there were some requirement that
indicated it wasn't).



Gary Menzel
Web Development Manager
IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited
Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000
PH: 07 333 44 828  FX:  07 3834 0828



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RE: [WSG] ordered list for events

[Chris Stratford]

That
is border collapse.

The
borders appear the way they are because they are not table borders, but BLOCKS
of text with borders.

That’s
how the  tag changes on mouse over without _javascript_.
And it appears to be the whole table cell…

 



-

Chris
Stratford

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.neester.com

-



 

-Original Message-
From: James Ellis
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004
5:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] ordered list
for events

 

Have you tried it with the border-collapse model? I
like border collapse :D, Safari doesn't support it though (soon it will
apparently).
Also, for table cells the vertical-align rule comes into its own.

Cheers
James

Chris Stratford wrote:



Check this TABLE work I did here, it may not fit with validators (havntchecked, and I don't care to really)... But I think its an awesome CSS Table display for a Forum Search engine: http://www.neester.com/hosted/search.php?search=email&type=title took me about 1 hour to get that all up and running!What you think?? -Chris Stratford[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.neester.com-  -Original Message-From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:57 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] ordered list for events  Gary Menzel wrote:   



I've got a simple list of events with dates and am trying to keep it  



as a simple ordered list.   



Well - at the risk of getting flamed (fire retardant underwear turned  



up   



to full strength) - this looks to me like it should be a .      



 There's nothing wrong with tables, provided they are used for tabular data like rather than layout. webmail entries,invoices and payments etcmedal tallies (in case you do Smiggins Holes 2010 Winter Olympics site) etc etc  CheersJames*The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/*   *The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/*    




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Re: [WSG] ordered list for events

[James Ellis]

Have you tried it with the border-collapse model? I like border
collapse :D, Safari doesn't support it though (soon it will apparently).
Also, for table cells the vertical-align rule comes into its own.

Cheers
James

Chris Stratford wrote:

  Check this TABLE work I did here, it may not fit with validators (havnt
checked, and I don't care to really)...

But I think its an awesome CSS Table display for a Forum Search engine:

http://www.neester.com/hosted/search.php?search=email&type=title

took me about 1 hour to get that all up and running!
What you think??

-
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.neester.com
-


-Original Message-
From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:57 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] ordered list for events


Gary Menzel wrote:

  
  

  I've got a simple list of events with dates and am trying to keep it
  

  
  as a simple ordered list. 
  
  

  Well - at the risk of getting flamed (fire retardant underwear turned
  

  
  up 
  
  

  to full strength) - this looks to me like it should be a .
   

  

  
  
There's nothing wrong with tables, provided they are used for tabular 
data like rather than layout.

webmail entries,
invoices and payments etc
medal tallies (in case you do Smiggins Holes 2010 Winter Olympics site) 
etc etc


Cheers
James
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Re: [WSG] ordered list for events

[Gary Menzel]

Envelopes are good.  Pushing them is good.

But - I suppose I still look at a table as being a table - and hence get
some backwards compatibility from it (especially in the case that Peter
has).

I am actually surprised at the number of support calls that we still get
that have people using browsers that are not CSS compliant - regardless of
what all the kewl web stats say about CSS browser penetration.

I have looked at your "coloured boxes" design and we will look more
closely at that again once we have this latest site revamp (it wasn't just
the template - we have replaced the whole underlying system) bedded down.
I did use coloured boxes - of sorts - to do our new design but I would
like to apply your approach top to bottom and see if I come up with a
different answer (I think I probably will).

However, the WYSYWIG embedded editors we use in CMS's still don't really
allow our content people the same flexibility that we can get by
hand-coding our HTML/CSS.  So a lot of the content that gets created still
relies on old technologies.

We have tried, in the new template design, to stick pretty much to a
CSS-based layout.


Gary Menzel
Web Development Manager
IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited
Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000
PH: 07 333 44 828  FX:  07 3834 0828



If this communication is not intended for you and you are not an authorised recipient 
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and integrity of all its communications, including electronic communications, but 
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employees do not accept liability for the results of any actions taken or not on the 
basis of the information in this report. ABN AMRO Morgans Limited and its associates 
hold or may hold securities in the companies/trusts mentioned herein.  Any 
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RE: [WSG] ordered list for events

[Peter Ottery]

Title: RE: [WSG] ordered list for events





thanks everyone! 
in response to a few of those questions:


Gary wrote:
>>I realise you have said you want to keep it as a simple ordered list - but 
>>I am not sure of the reason why.


    glory ;-)
    nah, I guess I'm just getting a real kick out of 
    not using tables wherever possible. I still 
    use them (tables) every day for anything 
    tabular & more complex than this, 
    ie: we're still friends ;-)


Scott wrote:
>>why did you use an ol?


    to be honest (and a little embarressed), i didn't 
    know any better. there, i said it :) 
    i havent used DL's before, but i will be now.


Russ wrote:
>> Many ways to skin a cat. A standard table is acceptable but so is a definition list:
>> http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/peterottery.htm


    many, many thanks. that fits my needs exactly 
    and i even got a file named after me! ;-)


thanks all, extremely helpful.


pete

RE: [WSG] ordered list for events

[Chris Stratford]

Check this TABLE work I did here, it may not fit with validators (havnt
checked, and I don't care to really)...

But I think its an awesome CSS Table display for a Forum Search engine:

http://www.neester.com/hosted/search.php?search=email&type=title

took me about 1 hour to get that all up and running!
What you think??

-
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.neester.com
-


-Original Message-
From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:57 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] ordered list for events


Gary Menzel wrote:

>>I've got a simple list of events with dates and am trying to keep it
as a simple ordered list. 
>>Well - at the risk of getting flamed (fire retardant underwear turned
up 
>>to full strength) - this looks to me like it should be a .
>>
>>

There's nothing wrong with tables, provided they are used for tabular 
data like rather than layout.

webmail entries,
invoices and payments etc
medal tallies (in case you do Smiggins Holes 2010 Winter Olympics site) 
etc etc


Cheers
James
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Re: [WSG] ordered list for events

[James Ellis]

Gary Menzel wrote:

I've got a simple list of events with dates and am trying to keep it as a simple ordered list. 
Well - at the risk of getting flamed (fire retardant underwear turned up 
to full strength) - this looks to me like it should be a .
   

There's nothing wrong with tables, provided they are used for tabular 
data like rather than layout.

webmail entries,
invoices and payments etc
medal tallies (in case you do Smiggins Holes 2010 Winter Olympics site) 
etc etc

Cheers
James
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The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
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Re: [WSG] ordered list for events

[russ weakley]

Completely agree Gary, but it is fun to push the envelope a bit. With a 
you can make it quite table-like, and in some cases the dl may be more
semantically correct (though I don't think this is one of those cases).

Table-like  example:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/peterottery2.htm

Russ


> Well - at the risk of getting flamed (fire retardant underwear turned up
> to full strength) - this looks to me like it should be a .
> 
> Meaning -  still is a valid markup tool when what you are marking
> up is a table of information.  Rows and Columns.
> 
> And you will get the added bonus of it retaining the "table like" nature
> when downgrading to older browsers.
> 
> I realise you have said you want to keep it as a simple ordered list - but
> I am not sure of the reason why.
> 
> 
> 
> Gary Menzel


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[Fwd: Re: [WSG] ordered list for events]

[scott parsons]

Or better yet... change that height to 1.2em and it will work with 
resizing text too (up to about 200% at least)

looks like a job for a table!
or even a definition list...
why did you use an ol?
try this
#searchlist ol li span.date {display: block;height:20px;width: 
100px;float:left}
li {clear:left}

I added a small height to the span and clear:left to the li
works on mozilla... I didn't teste others
s

Peter Ottery wrote:

Hi all,
I've got a simple list of events with dates and am trying to keep it 
as a simple ordered list.
 
http://www.c41.com.au/test.html shows my example with everything else 
stripped out. (the css is inline just for ease of creating the example.)
 
I thought I had it sorted until I realised that it goes a bit out of 
whack when the event name is long and wraps back down underneath the date.
I'd like to have the event name wrap - but just under itself - 
basically the same as a simple but ye olde table structure would where 
each date/event name were in a different table cell.
 
any ideas on how to get this working nicely or a better way of doing it?
 
pete ottery
 
 




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Re: [WSG] ordered list for events

[scott parsons]

looks like a job for a table!
or even a definition list...
why did you use an ol?
try this
#searchlist ol li span.date {display: block;height:20px;width: 
100px;float:left}
li {clear:left}

I added a small height to the span and clear:left to the li
works on mozilla... I didn't teste others
s

Peter Ottery wrote:

Hi all,
I've got a simple list of events with dates and am trying to keep it 
as a simple ordered list.
 
http://www.c41.com.au/test.html shows my example with everything else 
stripped out. (the css is inline just for ease of creating the example.)
 
I thought I had it sorted until I realised that it goes a bit out of 
whack when the event name is long and wraps back down underneath the date.
I'd like to have the event name wrap - but just under itself - 
basically the same as a simple but ye olde table structure would where 
each date/event name were in a different table cell.
 
any ideas on how to get this working nicely or a better way of doing it?
 
pete ottery
 
 


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Re: [WSG] ordered list for events

[Gary Menzel]

> I've got a simple list of events with dates and am trying to keep it as
a simple ordered list.


Well - at the risk of getting flamed (fire retardant underwear turned up
to full strength) - this looks to me like it should be a .

Meaning -  still is a valid markup tool when what you are marking
up is a table of information.  Rows and Columns.

And you will get the added bonus of it retaining the "table like" nature
when downgrading to older browsers.


I realise you have said you want to keep it as a simple ordered list - but
I am not sure of the reason why.



Gary Menzel
Web Development Manager
IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited
Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000
PH: 07 333 44 828  FX:  07 3834 0828



If this communication is not intended for you and you are not an authorised recipient 
of this email you are prohibited by law from dealing with or relying on the email or 
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contact ABN AMRO Morgans Limited immediately by returning the email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and destroy the original. We will refund any reasonable costs associated 
with notifying ABN AMRO Morgans. This email is confidential and may contain privileged 
client information. ABN AMRO Morgans has taken reasonable steps to ensure the accuracy 
and integrity of all its communications, including electronic communications, but 
accepts no liability for materials transmitted. Materials may also be transmitted 
without the knowledge of ABN AMRO Morgans.  ABN AMRO Morgans Limited its directors and 
employees do not accept liability for the results of any actions taken or not on the 
basis of the information in this report. ABN AMRO Morgans Limited and its associates 
hold or may hold securities in the companies/trusts mentioned herein.  Any 
recommendation is made on the basis of our research of the investment and may not suit 
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portfolio can only be made after an examination of the particular client?s 
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Re: [WSG] ordered list for events

[russ weakley]

Many ways to skin a cat. A standard table is acceptable but so is a
definition list:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/peterottery.htm

Russ



> 
> 
> Peter.
> 
> Without being able to test where I currently am at the moment (so forgive me
> if I am wrong), you should be able to use:
> 
> list-style-position: outside;
> 
> within the  style definition to do what you want.
> 
> The values for list-style-position are:
> 
> inside
> outside
> inherit
> 
> Regards,
> 
> David McDonald
> Web Designer
> Melbourne, Australia
> http://www.davidmcdonald.org
> 
> ICQ:11814164
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Peter Ottery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:10 pm
> Subject: [WSG] ordered list for events
> 
>> Hi all,
>> I've got a simple list of events with dates and am trying to keep
>> it as a
>> simple ordered list.
>> 
>> http://www.c41.com.au/test.html <"
>> target="l">http://www.c41.com.au/test.html>  shows my
>> example with everything else stripped out. (the css is inline just
>> for ease
>> of creating the example.)
>> 
>> I thought I had it sorted until I realised that it goes a bit out
>> of whack
>> when the event name is long and wraps back down underneath the date.
>> I'd like to have the event name wrap - but just under itself -
>> basically the
>> same as a simple but ye olde table structure would where each
>> date/eventname were in a different table cell.
>> 
>> any ideas on how to get this working nicely or a better way of
>> doing it?
>> 
>> pete ottery

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Re: [WSG] ordered list for events

[David McDonald]

Peter.

Without being able to test where I currently am at the moment (so forgive me if I am 
wrong), you should be able to use:

list-style-position: outside;   

within the  style definition to do what you want.

The values for list-style-position are:

inside
outside
inherit

Regards,

David McDonald
Web Designer
Melbourne, Australia
http://www.davidmcdonald.org

ICQ:11814164

- Original Message -
From: Peter Ottery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:10 pm
Subject: [WSG] ordered list for events

> Hi all,
> I've got a simple list of events with dates and am trying to keep 
> it as a
> simple ordered list. 
> 
> http://www.c41.com.au/test.html <" 
> target="l">http://www.c41.com.au/test.html>  shows my
> example with everything else stripped out. (the css is inline just 
> for ease
> of creating the example.)
> 
> I thought I had it sorted until I realised that it goes a bit out 
> of whack
> when the event name is long and wraps back down underneath the date.
> I'd like to have the event name wrap - but just under itself - 
> basically the
> same as a simple but ye olde table structure would where each 
> date/eventname were in a different table cell.
> 
> any ideas on how to get this working nicely or a better way of 
> doing it?
> 
> pete ottery
> 
> 
> 
  

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RE: [WSG] ordered list for events

[Mark Stanton]

Hi Peter

This really looks like a valid use for the infamous  tag to me.


Cheers

Mark


--
Mark Stanton
Technical Director
Gruden Pty Ltd
Tel: 9956 6388
Mob: 0410 458 201
Fax: 9956 8433
http://www.gruden.com
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