Re: [WSG] Applications that don't open in a new window
Hi Priscilla, I develop in PHP (though the actual language is fairly irrelevant) and based on what you say it sounds like a fingers crossed approach to the problem. Not knowing the perspective of your developer I cannot say whether he is wrong or right, but I can say with absolute certainty there is no fundamental reason to have to open a new window to control the way a user interacts with the form. I'm not sure how far to go without drifting off topic but the thing he may be talking about is "maintaining state". For example; if the user submits the form but their email is invalid, you want to send them back to the same form to correct it. During that submission you need to hold the data they submitted (i.e. maintain state), check it and if incorrect send them back to the form with the data they filled in still there. In multi page forms it is also crucial to carry over data. Neither cases have necessarily anything to do with what windows are open. Personally I, like you, would never open a new window and in fact would see it as yet another thing I'd have to control in the dangerous world of forms. John's comment: "If you can get an email from the PHP guy explaining in more detail what he thinks the issue is, we could discuss it in more detail." Is probably a good idea. Nick Our backend coder (php) insists that a new window should open for this form, so that the user cannot use the browser’s navigation buttons, because if they do some of the information does not make it back to the database (or something like that!). I told him that I don’t want a new window opening as it is not user-friendly and may be difficult for people with physical disabilities to use. We have now reached an impasse. I told him I would supply examples of similar applications online that comply with web standards i.e. do not open in a new window. Does anybody know of any that I can pass on? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Applications that don't open in a new window
> Opening a window without navigation elements doesn't > actually stop you from going back in the browser's > history. > You can either: > A. Hit the backspace button to go "back" > B. Right-click and choose "back" This is all when and good, but many users are still only just getting the concept of clicking the back button - these keyboard options are definitely not on the radar. During usability tests, I have seen users get quite lost when new windows pop up. "I can't go back!" (in a panicky voice). At the end of a session I have seen these users closed the current browser window and then be quite puzzled about the other windows underneath. "Ahhh, there's that page! How did it get there?". I've also seen a vision impaired user who use screen magnifiers set at high degrees of magnification loose a popup window completely. The popup occurred off-screen and caused a great degree of confusion. "I've clicked on the link again but nothing happened". David Woodbridge, the blind tech. specialist from the Royal Blind society recently talked about how popup windows can sometimes stop screen readers talking completely - the sound simply stops and the user had no idea where they are. The question might be better put the other way around... "Knowing that pop-ups can cause usability and accessibility issues, is there a real need to make this page pop up?" Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Applications that don't open in a new window
C: Alt and left arrow key (works for forward with right arrow key as well) Tim Hill Computer Associates Graphic Artist tel: +612 9937 0792 fax: +612 9937 0546 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cameron Adams Sent: Friday, 26 November 2004 2:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Applications that don't open in a new window Opening a window without navigation elements doesn't actually stop you from going back in the browser's history. You can either: A. Hit the backspace button to go "back" B. Right-click and choose "back" -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com --- Priscilla Brice-Weller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Our backend coder (php) insists that a new window should open for this > form, so that the user cannot use the browser's navigation buttons, > because if they do some of the information does not make it back to > the database (or something like that!). __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Applications that don't open in a new window
Gosh, I just had some email rage, y'know like road rage but about this email. Forms, database connections, cookies, and sessions, have nothing to do windows, and I suggest your backend coder does know what he is doing if he needs a new window to make something work. The list of web apps that don't open new windows is too numerous to mention (any page where you login or search for something) but here's one: google.com Terrence Wood. On 2004-11-26 4:09 PM, Priscilla Brice-Weller wrote: On our website, we ask people to fill in a form to register their details for an event. Our backend coder (php) insists that a new window should open for this form, so that the user cannot use the browser's navigation buttons, because if they do some of the information does not make it back to the database (or something like that!). I told him that I don't want a new window opening as it is not user-friendly and may be difficult for people with physical disabilities to use. We have now reached an impasse. I told him I would supply examples of similar applications online that comply with web standards i.e. do not open in a new window. Does anybody know of any that I can pass on? Ta, Priscilla -- "You know you've achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away." -Antoine de Saint-Exupery ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Applications that don't open in a new window
I agree with David. Your PHP guy is simply mistaken. Or, to be charitable, he has failed to get across whatever point he wanted to make. I can't see why opening a new window makes any difference at all. And if it's absolutely crucial that people don't use the back button, what's wrong with just telling them that? If you can get an email from the PHP guy explaining in more detail what he thinks the issue is, we could discuss it in more detail. jh There is no need to open a new window in this case, in fact opening a new window for the reason so that the user can't use the back button is just lazy programming. The form pages should hold the users information, and be able to maintain state if the user goes backward and submits again. This should be session based only, of course. This is pretty standard practice. Take a look at Amazon, eBay, PayPal an numerous other sites. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Applications that don't open in a new window Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:09:28 +1100 On our website, we ask people to fill in a form to register their details for an event. Our backend coder (php) insists that a new window should open for this form, so that the user cannot use the browser's navigation buttons, because if they do some of the information does not make it back to the database (or something like that!). I told him that I don't want a new window opening as it is not user-friendly and may be difficult for people with physical disabilities to use. We have now reached an impasse. I told him I would supply examples of similar applications online that comply with web standards i.e. do not open in a new window. Does anybody know of any that I can pass on? Ta, Priscilla Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** "Have You Validated Your Code?" John Horner(+612 / 02) 9333 3488 Senior Developer, ABC Online http://www.abc.net.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Applications that don't open in a new window
Opening a window without navigation elements doesn't actually stop you from going back in the browser's history. You can either: A. Hit the backspace button to go "back" B. Right-click and choose "back" -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com --- Priscilla Brice-Weller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Our backend coder (php) insists that a new window > should open for this > form, so that the user cannot use the browser's > navigation buttons, > because if they do some of the information does not > make it back to the > database (or something like that!). __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Applications that don't open in a new window
There is no need to open a new window in this case, in fact opening a new window for the reason so that the user can't use the back button is just lazy programming. The form pages should hold the users information, and be able to maintain state if the user goes backward and submits again. This should be session based only, of course. This is pretty standard practice. Take a look at Amazon, eBay, PayPal an numerous other sites. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Applications that don't open in a new window Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:09:28 +1100 >On our website, we ask people to fill in a form to register their >details for an event. > > > >Our backend coder (php) insists that a new window should open for >this >form, so that the user cannot use the browser's navigation buttons, >because if they do some of the information does not make it back to >the >database (or something like that!). > > > >I told him that I don't want a new window opening as it is not >user-friendly and may be difficult for people with physical >disabilities >to use. > > > >We have now reached an impasse. I told him I would supply examples of >similar applications online that comply with web standards i.e. do >not >open in a new window. Does anybody know of any that I can pass on? > > > >Ta, > >Priscilla Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
