Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
Google is not about to ban you, however if this is used in combination with other known black hat tactics, then you will. Google will check your CSS but once again, if you are using this technique to excess, then you should be worried. There was talk via a different email thread, and someone raised the same SEO concern, people have been using hidden and the CSS off-page described regularly for accessibility, and there haven't been any stories to date on those using these techniques legitimately and been banned by a search engine. I don't see any evidence in the server logs here of googlebot even looking at css files (despite thousands of hits by googlebot on pages that return html), however I am sure that if someone complained or someone at google comes across suspicious or "spammy" data they will manually check on it. So I don't think legitimate use would be a problem. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
I agree with you Dave, Google is not about to ban you, however if this is used in combination with other known black hat tactics, then you will. Google will check your CSS but once again, if you are using this technique to excess, then you should be worried. There was talk via a different email thread, and someone raised the same SEO concern, people have been using hidden and the CSS off-page described regularly for accessibility, and there haven't been any stories to date on those using these techniques legitimately and been banned by a search engine. William Dave Woods wrote: As far as I'm aware, it's not something that Google will automatically ban a site for anyway but if it is being used for black hat tactics then the site is open to being reported by anyone (possibly a competitor) which Google may then do a manual check of and ban the site if they deem the site to be breaking their terms of use. If display: none; is being used for a legitimate purpose then I wouldn't worry about it but as I mentioned earlier, it can have a negative impact on accessibility so as with most things, it depends how and why you're using this method. Thanks Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 30/10/2007, Alexander Gounder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi everyone, The Fact is that SEOs use this CSS feature (display:none) for cloaking which is a Black Hat SEO technique. Further the whole idea of you showing something(h1-3 tags filled with Keywords) to Google or any Search bot and hiding these from you end user speaks very bad about your intentions... Instead if your using this for some other purpose and the effect of this can be viewed by the end user then its not considered cloaking and google is quite intelligent to know that but the same can't be said about other search engines. So you need to decide on this depending on where your traffic is coming from. Thanks Alexander, Web Designer and SEO in Mumbai, India http://www.ecreeds.com On 10/29/07, Simon Cockayne < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. Is this true* or did I dream it? *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
As far as I'm aware, it's not something that Google will automatically ban a site for anyway but if it is being used for black hat tactics then the site is open to being reported by anyone (possibly a competitor) which Google may then do a manual check of and ban the site if they deem the site to be breaking their terms of use. If display: none; is being used for a legitimate purpose then I wouldn't worry about it but as I mentioned earlier, it can have a negative impact on accessibility so as with most things, it depends how and why you're using this method. Thanks Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 30/10/2007, Alexander Gounder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > The Fact is that SEOs use this CSS feature (display:none) for cloaking which > is a Black Hat SEO technique. > > Further the whole idea of you showing something(h1-3 tags filled with > Keywords) to Google or any Search bot and hiding these from you end user > speaks very bad about your intentions... > > Instead if your using this for some other purpose and the effect of this can > be viewed by the end user then its not considered cloaking and google is > quite intelligent to know that but the same can't be said about other search > engines. > > So you need to decide on this depending on where your traffic is coming > from. > > Thanks > Alexander, > Web Designer and SEO in Mumbai, India > http://www.ecreeds.com > > On 10/29/07, Simon Cockayne < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. > > > > Is this true* or did I dream it? > > > > *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a > > detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Simon > > > > > > > *** > > List Guidelines: > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > Unsubscribe: > http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > *** > > > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: > http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
Hi everyone, The Fact is that SEOs use this CSS feature (display:none) for cloaking which is a Black Hat SEO technique. Further the whole idea of you showing something(h1-3 tags filled with Keywords) to Google or any Search bot and hiding these from you end user speaks very bad about your intentions... Instead if your using this for some other purpose and the effect of this can be viewed by the end user then its not considered cloaking and google is quite intelligent to know that but the same can't be said about other search engines. So you need to decide on this depending on where your traffic is coming from. Thanks Alexander, Web Designer and SEO in Mumbai, India http://www.ecreeds.com On 10/29/07, Simon Cockayne < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. > > Is this true* or did I dream it? > > *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a > detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. > > Cheers, > > Simon > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
I highly doubt that presentational styles will effect SEO. When you use display:none you are not removing the content from the source, you are just hiding it from users viewing the web page. If you was to remove the element from the source using DOM that would be different. not if you are talking about client-side scripts ... for the robots not to see it it would have to be removed from the html they fetch from your web server. Most of them would just ignore css... except maybe google to check if you are hiding something :-) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
So the question is still open for me, and I'm curious; what is your source of information for thinking that the big G only looks at inline CSS? It was a couple of years ago that I came across articles that suggested this (I can't remember if anyone provided hard evidence to back it up). So I've been working on that assumption since and haven't seen any adverse SEO effects on sites I've worked on that have used various techniques that might be viewed dubiously by SEs (image replacement, dropdowns, offset headings/labels etc.). -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
On 30/10/07 (23:52) John said: >This might prove useful - http://www.seomoz.org/blog/guide-to-hidden-text > >My understanding is that yes, SEs do view some use of CSS dubiously, but >it's also been my understanding that it only applies to inline CSS (not >external stylesheets) and as an added safety measure, you can always add >your CSS directory to your robots.txt. Very interesting article, thanks for the heads-up John. About a year ago I tried hard to get a definitive answer out of a particular SEO forum's denizens with regard to whether Google was able to trawl through external style sheets or not; nobody was able to provide one. So the question is still open for me, and I'm curious; what is your source of information for thinking that the big G only looks at inline CSS? Cheers; -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
Adding your css directory to your robots.txt would certainly be an assurance, unless search engines started to attach screencaps to search results. I was going to say it would be a great idea for future proofing however now I'm wondering. John Faulds wrote: This might prove useful - http://www.seomoz.org/blog/guide-to-hidden-text My understanding is that yes, SEs do view some use of CSS dubiously, but it's also been my understanding that it only applies to inline CSS (not external stylesheets) and as an added safety measure, you can always add your CSS directory to your robots.txt. On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:46:07 +1000, Simon Cockayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. Is this true* or did I dream it? *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
This might prove useful - http://www.seomoz.org/blog/guide-to-hidden-text My understanding is that yes, SEs do view some use of CSS dubiously, but it's also been my understanding that it only applies to inline CSS (not external stylesheets) and as an added safety measure, you can always add your CSS directory to your robots.txt. On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:46:07 +1000, Simon Cockayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. Is this true* or did I dream it? *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
In most cases, positioning the element off left of screen is a much
better approach than display:none. Accessibility does not mean that
all css is ignored, and in this case, display:none will probably be
adhered to by a screenreader.
If you can absolutely position an element, set it's "left" property to
be a negative "em" value, e.g:
.hideLeft {
position:absolute;
left:-999em;
...
}
Alternatively, sometimes a text-indent will also work (especially if
your absolute element is inside another absolute/relative element)
.hideLeft {
text-indent:-999em;
...
}
Karl
On 10/30/07, James Jeffery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Toney i was speaking in general, i didn't realize he was talking about
> hiding keywords from visual view but so spiders see them.
>
> I though he was on about "Would hiding elements, such as replacing
> navigation text with images, effect search engine spiders and would
> the see the navigation text".
>
> I am fully aware SEO abuse, i didn't know he was referencing to that,
> my mistake.
>
> James
>
>
> On 10/29/07, Dave Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It depends what you're using it for. If it's for black hat search
> > engine tactics which will contain keywords then yes it's bad as it can
> > get you completely banned from Google.
> >
> > If it's for hiding an element of the page which you'll then be
> > displaying using either CSS or JavaScript then it's not neccesarily
> > bad for search engines but can be bad for accessibility as screen
> > readers will ignore it so you'd be better off using negative text
> > indent or negative absolute positioning.
> >
> > It depends on what situation you're using it for but yes it can be bad
> > if used wrongly.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Dave
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - -
> > http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
> >
> >
> > On 29/10/2007, James Jeffery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I highly doubt that presentational styles will effect SEO.
> > >
> > > When you use display:none you are not removing the
> > > content from the source, you are just hiding it from
> > > users viewing the web page.
> > >
> > > If you was to remove the element from the source using
> > > DOM that would be different.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/29/07, Tony Crockford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 29 Oct 2007, at 15:46, Simon Cockayne wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is this true* or did I dream it?
> > > > >
> > > > > *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a
> > > > > detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not.
> > > >
> > > > Google specifically caution against hiding text with CSS:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353
> > > >
> > > > is that what you meant?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> ***
> > > > List Guidelines:
> > > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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> > > http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
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> > > >
> > >
> ***
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ***
> > > List Guidelines:
> > > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> > > Unsubscribe:
> > > http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
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> > >
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> >
> >
> >
> ***
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Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
Toney i was speaking in general, i didn't realize he was talking about hiding keywords from visual view but so spiders see them. I though he was on about "Would hiding elements, such as replacing navigation text with images, effect search engine spiders and would the see the navigation text". I am fully aware SEO abuse, i didn't know he was referencing to that, my mistake. James On 10/29/07, Dave Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It depends what you're using it for. If it's for black hat search > engine tactics which will contain keywords then yes it's bad as it can > get you completely banned from Google. > > If it's for hiding an element of the page which you'll then be > displaying using either CSS or JavaScript then it's not neccesarily > bad for search engines but can be bad for accessibility as screen > readers will ignore it so you'd be better off using negative text > indent or negative absolute positioning. > > It depends on what situation you're using it for but yes it can be bad > if used wrongly. > > Thanks > Dave > > - - - - - - - - - - > http://www.dave-woods.co.uk > > > On 29/10/2007, James Jeffery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I highly doubt that presentational styles will effect SEO. > > > > When you use display:none you are not removing the > > content from the source, you are just hiding it from > > users viewing the web page. > > > > If you was to remove the element from the source using > > DOM that would be different. > > > > James > > > > > > On 10/29/07, Tony Crockford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > On 29 Oct 2007, at 15:46, Simon Cockayne wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. > > > > > > > > Is this true* or did I dream it? > > > > > > > > *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a > > > > detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. > > > > > > Google specifically caution against hiding text with CSS: > > > > > > > > http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353 > > > > > > is that what you meant? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > List Guidelines: > > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > > Unsubscribe: > > http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > > > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > List Guidelines: > > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > Unsubscribe: > > http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > *** > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
It depends what you're using it for. If it's for black hat search engine tactics which will contain keywords then yes it's bad as it can get you completely banned from Google. If it's for hiding an element of the page which you'll then be displaying using either CSS or JavaScript then it's not neccesarily bad for search engines but can be bad for accessibility as screen readers will ignore it so you'd be better off using negative text indent or negative absolute positioning. It depends on what situation you're using it for but yes it can be bad if used wrongly. Thanks Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 29/10/2007, James Jeffery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I highly doubt that presentational styles will effect SEO. > > When you use display:none you are not removing the > content from the source, you are just hiding it from > users viewing the web page. > > If you was to remove the element from the source using > DOM that would be different. > > James > > > On 10/29/07, Tony Crockford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On 29 Oct 2007, at 15:46, Simon Cockayne wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. > > > > > > Is this true* or did I dream it? > > > > > > *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a > > > detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. > > > > Google specifically caution against hiding text with CSS: > > > > > http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353 > > > > is that what you meant? > > > > > > > > > *** > > List Guidelines: > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > Unsubscribe: > http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > *** > > > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: > http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
On 29 Oct 2007, at 17:43, James Jeffery wrote: I highly doubt that presentational styles will effect SEO. When you use display:none you are not removing the content from the source, you are just hiding it from users viewing the web page. If you was to remove the element from the source using DOM that would be different. The whole point is that you leave it in the source for the web spiders to index and remove it from plain view for the visitor, so they don't see your multiple keyword spam read the google guidelines linked to below. Google specifically caution against hiding text with CSS: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353 is that what you meant? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
I highly doubt that presentational styles will effect SEO. When you use display:none you are not removing the content from the source, you are just hiding it from users viewing the web page. If you was to remove the element from the source using DOM that would be different. James On 10/29/07, Tony Crockford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 29 Oct 2007, at 15:46, Simon Cockayne wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. > > > > Is this true* or did I dream it? > > > > *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a > > detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. > > Google specifically caution against hiding text with CSS: > > http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353 > > is that what you meant? > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
On 29 Oct 2007, at 15:46, Simon Cockayne wrote: Hi, I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. Is this true* or did I dream it? *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. Google specifically caution against hiding text with CSS: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353 is that what you meant? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
