Re: [WSG] Definition lists for comments in blogs
What would be wrong with doing something like this? h3Comment Title/h3 p Posted by foobar on foobar /p div p Comment text /p /div On 5/30/05, Andrew Krespanis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heh, well if the blockquote approach is considered overkill, you'll choke on what I actually use for my comments... ol li dl dtAndrew said:/dt ddpThis is my comment. It is the definition of 'Andrew said' within this context./p/dd /dl dl class=date dtComment posted on:/dt dd9:15 am, 28th of May 2005/dd /dl /li /ol my 2c :) Andrew. http://leftjustified.net/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Rowan Lewis (AKA. The Wolf) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Definition lists for comments in blogs
What would be wrong with doing something like this? h3Comment Title/h3 p Posted by foobar on foobar /p div p Comment text /p /div Nothing 'wrong', as such. The div surrounding the 'comment text' paragraph is superfluous and could be dropped, but semantically it's pretty sound. The semantic question to ask there: is each individual comment really a subsection of the page? (which a header signifies). The answer could be yes or no there, I err on no but I see how people could differ. If you were to mark up three comments using your above example, you have 3 different sub-sections in your page structure. Ultimately, the reason for preferring a definition list is that the spec says you can use it to structure a dialogue and since that's what comments are, it does rather make sense. Using a definition list describes everything you've achieved with p and h3, but /also/ makes it very clear that the comments are a related sequence. Arguably a dl also describes a much closer relationship between the comment title (h3 -- dt) and the information (date , author and comment text (all dd)), than a heading and following paragraphs. There's not much in it really, and there comes a point when choosing one highly-optimised semantic structure over another highly-optimised semantic structure shouldn't matter. Both are pretty good. Ben ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Definition lists for comments in blogs
On 5/30/05 4:49 AM Rowan Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this out: What would be wrong with doing something like this? h3Comment Title/h3 p Posted by foobar on foobar /p div p Comment text /p /div The only thing I can think of is: are you aware of the origin of fubar (which is the correct spelling of foobar)? It's totally weird how usage of fubar has been so distorted on the web. Whatever. Rick ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Definition lists for comments in blogs
That may be because most people don't know it's an acronym. Foobar IS F.U.B.A.R. Christie Mason -Original Message- Rick Faaberg The only thing I can think of is: are you aware of the origin of fubar (which is the correct spelling of foobar)? It's totally weird how usage of fubar has been so distorted on the web. Whatever. Rick ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Definition lists for comments in blogs
The discussion of Definition lists for comments in blogs has been a great so far. Please don't stray off-topic. Ben WSG Core That may be because most people don't know it's an acronym. Foobar IS The only thing I can think of is: are you aware of the origin of fubar ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Definition lists for comments in blogs
Foobar IS F.U.B.A.R. It isn't, it's only derived from it. See http://kb.iu.edu/data/aetq.html -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Definition lists for comments in blogs
Ahh, but the problem with using blockquote there is that you're trying to differentiate between content from the site owner and content from contributors. However, both those people are 'authors' on the blog, the blog article and blog comments are both first-hand content. blockquote marks up content that is quoted from *another source*, not a secondary author. A comment on a blog does not exist in any other source (online or offline), so you're not 'quoting' it at all. I think the best way to think about it is that with a blog, there is a difference between the site 'owner' and the site authors. If you enable comments on your blog, you are inviting the world in to be authors too. As a curious twist though (given the way in which most blogging software will merge Trackback and Pingback with directly contributed comments) it /would/ be appropriate to blockquote the content snippet from a pinging site, since in that situation the content /is/ second hand. I can see the dilemma, choosing to present the chronological order (ol) vs. presenting more detailed structuring of dialogue (dl). Given that the HTML4 spec. explicitly says that you can use a dl for dialogue, the content is implicitly in order. For me, that is a good enough justification for using the more detailed markup of a dl. Not 100% sure of how I'd do it; maybe something like this: dl class=comments dt class=authorSteve/dt dd class=datetime28th May 2005, Midday/dd dd class=bodytextBlah Blah Blah Foo/dd dt class=authorDavid/dt dd class=datetime29th May 2005, Early Morning/dd dd class=bodytextI concur with all that Blah/dd /dl Any additional meta data (maybe in reply to) would be added as further dd elements before the body text. For styling (albeit rather ambitious with my CSS support), I might use a CSS counter to number each dt (the dl has an implicit order), plus some generated content to add a Comment by and on prefix to the author and datetime fields respectively. It depends on your browser target for something as personal as a blog. Ben On 5/27/05, heretic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dtAt x:xxpm so-and-so said:/dt ddblah blah blah/dd Accurate I suppose although I'm a bit undecided about numbering inserted as content. Similarly been thinking about markup for search engine results. ol liAt x:xxpm so-and-so said: blockquoteblah blah blah/blockquote /li /ol Thinking this through q and blockquote mark up sections of content which did not originate from the document's author. So I guess this is semantically correct on the basis that the hosting site did not create the content. Thinking back to my search results scenario, the document summary could be considered a quote as well. Hmmm. Mental cogs grinding. Hang on, it's supposed to be friday night ;) h -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- http://www.ben-ward.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Definition lists for comments in blogs
Heh, well if the blockquote approach is considered overkill, you'll choke on what I actually use for my comments... ol li dl dtAndrew said:/dt ddpThis is my comment. It is the definition of 'Andrew said' within this context./p/dd /dl dl class=date dtComment posted on:/dt dd9:15 am, 28th of May 2005/dd /dl /li /ol my 2c :) Andrew. http://leftjustified.net/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Definition lists for comments in blogs
Is the blockquote really needed? I mean, your not quoting from another source, your just displaying content from your website. Other than that, an ordered list is probably the best method. On 5/26/05, Lucian Teo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- I've been redesigning my blog recently and I noticed what in my opinion was a misuse of definition lists when it came to the comments section. Doug Bowman and Dan Cedarholme use dtAt x:xxpm so-and-so said:/dt ddblah blah blah/dd The numbering of comments was done within Movabletype rather than an ordered list. For my own blog I came up with this solution. I don't claim it to be the best, but if there's better, do tell. ol liAt x:xxpm so-and-so said: blockquoteblah blah blah/blockquote /li /ol However, to make the order number clickable for use as a permalink to the comment, I had to turn off the bulleting, then reinsert comment order via movabletype. Lucian http://tribolum.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Rowan Lewis (AKA. The Wolf) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Definition lists for comments in blogs
If we are to follow the W3C example of using DLs to mark up dialogues, there's not much wrong with using a definition list for comments. Infact, it seems a very appropriate use of the element. However, your use of an unordered list with blockqoutes is very interesting too. I guess this is a matter of personal preference rather than what is correct or not. Prabhath http://nidahas.com On 5/26/05, Lucian Teo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- I've been redesigning my blog recently and I noticed what in my opinion was a misuse of definition lists when it came to the comments section. Doug Bowman and Dan Cedarholme use dtAt x:xxpm so-and-so said:/dt ddblah blah blah/dd The numbering of comments was done within Movabletype rather than an ordered list. For my own blog I came up with this solution. I don't claim it to be the best, but if there's better, do tell. ol liAt x:xxpm so-and-so said: blockquoteblah blah blah/blockquote /li /ol However, to make the order number clickable for use as a permalink to the comment, I had to turn off the bulleting, then reinsert comment order via movabletype. Lucian http://tribolum.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Definition lists for comments in blogs
On Thu, 26 May 2005 19:16:48 +0930, Rowan Lewis wrote: Is the blockquote really needed? I mean, your not quoting from another source, your just displaying content from your website. Needed, no, but it does seem quite an elegant approach :) Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet http://elysiansystems.com/ Search Engine Optimisation, Usability, Information Architecture, Web Design Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Definition lists for comments in blogs
I think its one case of taking things a little too far... On 5/26/05, Lea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 26 May 2005 19:16:48 +0930, Rowan Lewis wrote: Is the blockquote really needed? I mean, your not quoting from another source, your just displaying content from your website. Needed, no, but it does seem quite an elegant approach :) Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet http://elysiansystems.com/ Search Engine Optimisation, Usability, Information Architecture, Web Design Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Rowan Lewis (AKA. The Wolf) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
