Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
Joyce Evans wrote:
Content-disposition: attachment; filename=document.pdf
This seems to be a good idea. Could you please give an example
where this
code would be placed on the web page or how it would fit into the
code?
You can set this as a http header using a server side script.
In PHP the code looks like:
?php
// We'll be outputting a PDF
header('Content-type: application/pdf');
// It will be called downloaded.pdf
header('Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=downloaded.pdf');
// The PDF source is in original.pdf
readfile('original.pdf');
?
see: http://php.net/header
kind regards
Terrence Wood.
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
RE: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
This seems to be a good idea. Could you please give an example where this code would be placed on the web page or how it would fit into the code? I'm having a blank moment. Thanks. Joyce _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jixor - Stephen I Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 3:20 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser! Jermayn, Use a content-disposition header to force a download so that the user doesn't have to have their browser potentially crippled by Acrobat and its easy to save for later viewing. Content-disposition: attachment; filename=document.pdf Jermayn Parker wrote: pdfs are not going to go away (and docs are not the answer) in Nielsons article (who is over rated and take his opinion with a grain of salt) he says pdfs are for print and I agree but for most Government websites they need these pdfs that we all hate and as I said in an earlier email html versions is not always an option. So the question remains how do we make a linked pdf presented and operational the best?? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20/07/2007 10:08:52 am On 2007/07/19 11:23 (GMT+1000) Webb, KerryA apparently typed: Jermayn wrote: I work at one of the those government places that has those horrible pdfs scattered through out all their horrible pages. I couldnt agree more. And I work with people who build such sites, and I don't have a problem with PDFs per se. As a rule, I do. Most are apparently made by and for the people who design inaccessible mousetype web sites, not for normal or low vision web users. If that's an efficient and effective way to publish a document, let them Efficient and effective only from a publisher's perspective, not from a user's perspective. Pdfs are for printing. Ecologically aware people are not interested in killing trees just to get a little freely available information. do it - providing the PDF is properly marked up. It's rare that pdfs are published to be univerally accessible, so the end result is that as a group, pdfs are a scourge. Nielsen is too polite about it: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20030714.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
Content-disposition: attachment; filename=document.pdf Joyce Evans wrote: This seems to be a good idea. Could you please give an example where this code would be placed on the web page or how it would fit into the code? I’m having a “blank” moment. Thanks. You would put that in your server configuration (e.g. in Apache's httpd.conf or in an .htaccess file) P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ Take it to the streets ... join the WaSP Street Team http://streetteam.webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
On Jul 23, 2007, at 3:31 PM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Content-disposition: attachment; filename=document.pdf Joyce Evans wrote: This seems to be a good idea. Could you please give an example where this code would be placed on the web page or how it would fit into the code? I’m having a “blank” moment. Thanks. You would put that in your server configuration (e.g. in Apache's httpd.conf or in an .htaccess file) I am curious: because browsers treat PDF differently, shouldn't it be better to provide an info for user to choose download or open new window for PDF with right click? With Safari, it's indeed irritating that PDF opens in the same window unless I right click my mouse for options; Firefox asks how I want to view the PDF file. Despite my passion for the use of PDF, I don't always want to download PDF from websites though, especially when there is no telling the link I am gonna to click is PDF or just a link. I don't think I like it much that the only option I have is download, some websites do exactly what you suggested, especially the Adobe, which forces to open up my Acrobat Professional even though I have specifically tell my browsers use Preview only for PDF. In the view of usability, I think this option falls short. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
Jermayn, Use a content-disposition header to force a download so that the user doesn't have to have their browser potentially crippled by Acrobat and its easy to save for later viewing. Content-disposition: attachment; filename=document.pdf Jermayn Parker wrote: pdfs are not going to go away (and docs are not the answer) in Nielsons article (who is over rated and take his opinion with a grain of salt) he says pdfs are for print and I agree but for most Government websites they need these pdfs that we all hate and as I said in an earlier email html versions is not always an option. So the question remains how do we make a linked pdf presented and operational the best?? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20/07/2007 10:08:52 am On 2007/07/19 11:23 (GMT+1000) Webb, KerryA apparently typed: Jermayn wrote: I work at one of the those government places that has those horrible pdfs scattered through out all their horrible pages. I couldnt agree more. And I work with people who build such sites, and I don't have a problem with PDFs per se. As a rule, I do. Most are apparently made by and for the people who design inaccessible mousetype web sites, not for normal or low vision web users. If that's an efficient and effective way to publish a document, let them Efficient and effective only from a publisher's perspective, not from a user's perspective. Pdfs are for printing. Ecologically aware people are not interested in killing trees just to get a little freely available information. do it - providing the PDF is properly marked up. It's rare that pdfs are published to be univerally accessible, so the end result is that as a group, pdfs are a scourge. Nielsen is too polite about it: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20030714.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
From memory adobe used to have a server you could buy that would do on the fly conversion. Was quite exxy from memory and I wouldn't really call it's output perfect. Although the last time I looked into it was a few years ago so it might not be available any more. Brett. Michael MD wrote: I wonder what Google uses to do those the view as html when you see pdfs in search results. ... maybe there are some server-side conversion tools around that could be useful? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
Brett Sargeant wrote: From memory adobe used to have a server you could buy that would do on the fly conversion. Was quite exxy from memory and I wouldn't really call it's output perfect. Although the last time I looked into it was a few years ago so it might not be available any more. http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ Take it to the streets ... join the WaSP Street Team http://streetteam.webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
No. PDF is a document file format, not a Web technolgy. Whilst you may say that it's use on the Web has become standard that does not make it a Web Standard (except by some tortuous abuse of semantics). Adobe might be On Fri, July 20, 2007 9:39 am, Alastair Campbell wrote: On Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 11:23:44AM +1000, Webb, KerryA wrote: If that's an efficient and effective way to publish a document, let them do it - providing the PDF is properly marked up. On a side note, now that adobe is putting PDF through the standards process, can we now consider it a 'web' standard? Kind regards, -Alastair -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
Stuart Foulstone wrote: PDF is a document file format, not a Web technolgy. Whilst you may say that it's use on the Web has become standard that does not make it a Web Standard (except by some tortuous abuse of semantics). HTML is a document file format. While there may be an argument to be made that PDF isn't a 'web technology' I don't think this is it. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
Saying that PDF's are needed by Government Websites is a very circular argument for allowing them - why are they needed? In my experience it is only ever because of laziness or poorly designed workflows, and as you point out, we all hate them, especially when they cannot be opened/read. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jermayn Parker ... for most Government websites they need these pdfs that we all hate and as I said in an earlier email html versions is not always an option. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
Michael I understand your comments, however I think it would be very difficult for governments other high volume publishers to remove the need for PDFs. Where an audience must be reached by a variety of channels by both web and printed media, it would be sensless to have to produce multiple sets of documents. i.e. brochures prepared for both printers and then replicated in HTML. Post print production saving as PDF ensures that exactly the same document as sent to print can easily be published for the web, maintaing the original integrity of the document and also saving on a second production process. -- Regards - Rob Raising web standards : http://ele.vation.co.uk Linking in with others: http://linkedin.com/in/robkirton On 20/07/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Saying that PDF's are needed by Government Websites is a very circular argument for allowing them - why are they needed? In my experience it is only ever because of laziness or poorly designed workflows, and as you point out, we all hate them, especially when they cannot be opened/read. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jermayn Parker ... for most Government websites they need these pdfs that we all hate and as I said in an earlier email html versions is not always an option. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
Told you - abuse of semantics to undermine Web Standards again:-) -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 On Fri, July 20, 2007 11:06 am, Rob Crowther wrote: Stuart Foulstone wrote: PDF is a document file format, not a Web technolgy. Whilst you may say that it's use on the Web has become standard that does not make it a Web Standard (except by some tortuous abuse of semantics). HTML is a document file format. While there may be an argument to be made that PDF isn't a 'web technology' I don't think this is it. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
HI, A I've not read the entire thread, the suggestion may have been offered. For Safari this extension allows the user to disable Safari rendering of pdf: SafariSpeed 2.0 http://pimpmysafari.com/plugins/ This should be a feature of of all UA's but this is a start. CK On Jul 20, 2007, at 7:39 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote: Told you - abuse of semantics to undermine Web Standards again:-) -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 On Fri, July 20, 2007 11:06 am, Rob Crowther wrote: Stuart Foulstone wrote: PDF is a document file format, not a Web technolgy. Whilst you may say that it's use on the Web has become standard that does not make it a Web Standard (except by some tortuous abuse of semantics). HTML is a document file format. While there may be an argument to be made that PDF isn't a 'web technology' I don't think this is it. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
On Jul 20, 2007, at 3:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Saying that PDF's are needed by Government Websites is a very circular argument for allowing them - why are they needed? In my experience it is only ever because of laziness or poorly designed workflows, and as you point out, we all hate them, especially when they cannot be opened/ read. Mike I love web standard and practice it with the best of my ability, and I love PDF too - use it, create it, deliver it (for client), I love it especially when I need to download form, I love it even more when I can fill up the form with my keyboard directly from browser, then print it out, sign my name and post it; I also love it when an ebook I purchased (rarely because most ebook in PDF version are badly created) have hyperlink option where I can jump to certain page/ section with a click on link, and jump back with another click. I do hate it when a PDF file I downloaded, the text is unreadable with 300% zoom A Chinese physician will tell you anything that is medicine, contain 30% of poison - over used, over dosed, if not kill you, will at least make you suffer (irritation is one of the suffering emotion I supposed) - today a Western journalist will write that anything that is Chinese medicine MIC, contains 100% poison (alas! unfortunately with some true in it), your statement came out to me like a Western journalist who wrote an article saying that all Chinese medicine contains 100% poison. Alas! as much as I know it's not true and you didn't know anything about Chinese medicine except quoting/reading something from some source or had a one tiny bad experience the last time you travelled in China, but I feel helpless to defend the Chinese medicine due to those rotten poising evil apples that do exist and have creating quite a stir. I think in this case, blame the messenger, not the source that made of what it is. PDF can be accessible, not in the sense of web standards, create it and delivery it with care and best practice, it's not evil at all, especially compare with flash, imho. Look at the economic aspect, all government sectors on earth are talking about budget cutting constantly, I personal feel Government websites stand a good argument for providing PDF forms for free easy access. Don't know which country you live in, do you remember when was the last time you needed to visit post office or a city hall department to obtain a form, or worse, you need to pay for it from a third party agent that does nothing creative but make money from selling forms provided free of charge by governments. Oh, although no statistic to proof it, but I do believe we manage to save quite a few forests each year by having the PDFs be available on one's website, on the internet. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I love web standard and practice it with the best of my ability, Nice to know, very glad to hear it. and I love PDF too - use it, create it, deliver it So somewhat biased then... PDF can be accessible, not in the sense of web standards, Huh? Look at the economic aspect, all government sectors on earth are talking about budget cutting constantly, I personal feel Government websites stand a good argument for providing PDF forms PDF's are quite good for forms - but that is a minority of what they _are_ used for; most of them are just official reports, stuffed full of logos and pretty graphics. Better to just make the forms online in the first place - why download, print then have to post it in? Much better to submit direct. Oh, although no statistic to proof it, but I do believe we manage to save quite a few forests each year by having the PDFs be available on one's website, on the internet. Again; Huh? Regards, Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
Tee G. Peng wrote: Oh, although no statistic to proof it, but I do believe we manage to save quite a few forests each year by having the PDFs be available on one's website, on the internet. ?! You're entitled to your enthusiasm for PDF (which I don't share) but this one escapes me -- how do you figure? Personally, I'm more likely to print out (at least parts of) PDFs because they're so hellish to use on-screen... -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Saying that PDF's are needed by Government Websites is a very circular argument for allowing them - why are they needed? In my experience it is only ever because of laziness or poorly designed workflows, and as you point out, we all hate them, especially when they cannot be opened/read. Mike I have worked for an organization that uses PDF's in their loan application process. They have to send some of the filled out forms into the Small Bu and therefore they have to follow a specific format for the forms. It would be confusing and time consuming to create multiple versions of the form--since if anything ever went to court they would need a copy of the exact form a user filled out--not one where the information had been transfered over to a new form. If anyone is interested in reading, here is an Adobe article on PDF accessibility. http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/accessibility/reader/sec1.html Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
I think the thread here would be summed up as: Most everyone would agree pdf is a usefull file format with special qualities and good. There is nothing wrong with the pdf format. PDF isn't a web format and causes some people problems in both usability and irritation. Having a link that says Read this or read more etc, and surprise surprise, a new browser window opens up and some people get locked up while waiting for this unexpected event to take place...is a no no Would about sum it up. Myself, I would say: Clearly indicate the format and maybe suggest downloading, especially if very large, State size of file. If smaller file offer it in html format, especially when part of the site... Otherwise, it isn't a bad thing, just when not clear what exactly it is, and size. My 2 cents anyways.. Bruce P bkdesign - Original Message - From: Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Saying that PDF's are needed by Government Websites is a very circular argument for allowing them - why are they needed? In my experience it is only ever because of laziness or poorly designed workflows, and as you point out, we all hate them, especially when they cannot be opened/read. Mike I have worked for an organization that uses PDF's in their loan application process. They have to send some of the filled out forms into the Small Bu and therefore they have to follow a specific format for the forms. It would be confusing and time consuming to create multiple versions of the form--since if anything ever went to court they would need a copy of the exact form a user filled out--not one where the information had been transfered over to a new form. If anyone is interested in reading, here is an Adobe article on PDF accessibility. http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/accessibility/reader/sec1.html Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
On Jul 20, 2007, at 7:54 AM, Hassan Schroeder wrote: Oh, although no statistic to proof it, but I do believe we manage to save quite a few forests each year by having the PDFs be available on one's website, on the internet. ?! You're entitled to your enthusiasm for PDF (which I don't share) but this one escapes me -- how do you figure? This is heading a OT direction I am afraid. I should add the 'on one's website, over the internet, via email' Will, take myself for example, for print/web design services, I don't send paper invoice unless client specifically requested; I have another business on the side that requires making catalogs - each copy of color catalog cost me US$1.75 (17 x 11 by 16 pages), and I print some 500 copies a year, most of them are wasted, go directly into trash bin even though I don't send them unless a request catalog is made via web form /telephone/ fax. I have the catalog in PDF version available for download from my website and always encourage people who requested the catalog to download the PDF version instead. And on the printed catalog I had it printed help saves a tree and help us save our cost, please download our catalog at www.site.com/ catalog. Although I am environmental conscious and make it a practice in my daily lives but It will be hypocritical to tell people 'help saves a tree, please download catalog at . I don't print out anything (PDF) unless necessary; I don't request printed material unless absolutely necessary, many things I needed for references purposes for me to conduct my business can be obtained on the internet in PDF, not just forms. I work very hard to try to make a paperless home office - impossible but I make great effort to reduce the use of paper. I don't have my bank sends paper statement to me via mail each month and other services I subscribed to that are not technologically savvy or lack of resources to make them HTML (either this option is available thing can goes wrong and you will have another reason to blame the web) but PDF only. The incoming fax I received are also in PDF. Everthing is in PDF I do not work in papermill industry but my previous life as a print designer and the business I do now and the awareness I have as to how we mindlessly polluting our enviornment, require me to know a lot about how paper being made, what materials are made of, what chemicals are used and how much virgin fabric are used for the paper, where the source comes from and are the fabric that made of 100% pure white shining glossy paper from the tree that takes decade to grow or corps that are farmed and regenerated annually etc... You feel good about your country has a toughest law in protecting forests and preventing certain industries from destroying the beautiful forest in your own land, but perhaps what you don't know is, your people (my people) go to other countries that have less tougher law or no law in protecting the forests, exploiting others' beautiful forests and lands so that you can have beautiful gift paperwrap for birthdays, for Chistmas, and for your shning glossy paper prensation that you present to your clients. Chances are, any information that is offered as a PDF option for download over the internet, help saves energies/resources, less pollutions and help saves a tree one way or the other. If 50% of the people that reqeusted catalog, forms last year from me, from my clients, from any government websites opted for PDF version, everyone wins to some extend. Like I said, blame the messenger - blame the people who created the PDF for not making it accssible and easy for the users. Don't blame the PDF itself - it's innocent and in fact in my opinion, a beneficial technology Adobe has invented. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
Like I said, blame the messenger - blame the people who created the PDF for not making it accssible and easy for the users. Don't blame the PDF itself - it's innocent and in fact in my opinion, a beneficial technology Adobe has invented. My earlier complaint was not about whether not pdf should be used (there are places where it is quite useful - such as long e-books, catalogues, manuals, etc that are downloaded for offline viewing - or invoices, etc designed to be downloaded). I was just trying to draw attention to the issue of some sites forcing people to open pdfs in a browser window rather than giving the user the choice to download them (thereby causing frustration for users who are then stuck with a locked up browser while waiting for the browser plugin to start) and also that pdf should not be seen as a substitute for html content on a website. On some of the sites that do this, the pdf's are mostly short public press releases. I see no reason why there could not be alternate html versions of those (perhaps even created by using a conversion tool? - the rendering and html may not be perfect but surely this could help). I wonder what Google uses to do those the view as html when you see pdfs in search results. ... maybe there are some server-side conversion tools around that could be useful? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
I, for one am enjoying this discussion :) My 2c: 1) Let the user know it's a PDF *and* what size the PDF is, eg by putting something like (12Kb PDF) beside the link. I'm on dial up at home and it grates my backside when sites don't let me know how big the file is 2) If you can, use Acrobat Pro to autotag your PDF's. It's far from perfect but it's a start 3) Never ever assume a tagged PDF is 'screen reader friendly'. A partially sighted woman gave a (fantastic) presentation at a conference I attended recently where she 'showed' a screen reader opening a PDF and also showed how Acrobat rendered the doc in ZoomText. It was absolutely illegible and the screen reader couldn't make head or tail of it. 4) Push back on your departments to change the workflow so you get raw content and (in a perfect world) time to mark it up. 5) Get a search tool that indexes the raw text of PDF content and lets you point users to the text version if they want it. Again, not perfect but better than nothing. Like most government employees, I've got a lot of work to do in this area, but it really does need to be done :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
I think of your 5 steps, number one is the most practable... the others are good in a 'perfect' world but this aint and if most other gov sites are like mine (new design coming tom), they will not happen. All of my pdfs are direct from the different areas and so I dont create the pdfs and we dont get the option of producing a html/ doc version [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20/07/2007 10:51:33 am I, for one am enjoying this discussion :) My 2c: 1) Let the user know it's a PDF *and* what size the PDF is, eg by putting something like (12Kb PDF) beside the link. I'm on dial up at home and it grates my backside when sites don't let me know how big the file is 2) If you can, use Acrobat Pro to autotag your PDF's. It's far from perfect but it's a start 3) Never ever assume a tagged PDF is 'screen reader friendly'. A partially sighted woman gave a (fantastic) presentation at a conference I attended recently where she 'showed' a screen reader opening a PDF and also showed how Acrobat rendered the doc in ZoomText. It was absolutely illegible and the screen reader couldn't make head or tail of it. 4) Push back on your departments to change the workflow so you get raw content and (in a perfect world) time to mark it up. 5) Get a search tool that indexes the raw text of PDF content and lets you point users to the text version if they want it. Again, not perfect but better than nothing. Like most government employees, I've got a lot of work to do in this area, but it really does need to be done :) Paul The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
