Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF
The problem with using it with DX friendly propagation is the antipode being used for R . Yes people should know better but many don’t. In fact there is guidance that it should be turned off when propagation favors DX. Ria N2RJ On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 8:33 PM W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote: > This had nothing to do with DX. The exchange was the grid DX or not. > > The issue is that you cannot work people if they are in contest mode and > you are not. > > W0MU > > > On 7/23/2018 6:22 PM, rjai...@gmail.com wrote: > > NA VHF Contest mode should not be used in a DX contest, or at least > > one with significant potential for DX. > > > > It was frustrating for me too, mostly because of the inconsistency. > > > > 73 > > Ria, N2RJ > > On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 8:15 PM David Fisher > wrote: > >> Sometimes stations would call “CQ WW ”. In that case, it was > easy to select contest mode and return the call. But in many other cases, > the other station would give no hint he was in contest mode until his > mangled grid square was received. In those cases I got the pop up that > prompted me to turn on contest mode. I did so, but all of that takes time, > coordination and practice to make work smoothly. > >> > >> > >> > >> I one case that I ran as an experiment, I called CQ in contest mode, > got a reply, then got a message through JTAlertX asking what I was doing > and why my grid square didn’t make sense. Etc. etc. etc. > >> > >> > >> > >> Bottom line – I wasn’t in the contest, but I made a mess of a number of > other station’s contest mode QSOs, which defeated the intent of contest > mode. > >> > >> > >> > >> Dave / NX6D > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> From: W0MU Mike Fatchett > >> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:37:07 PM > >> To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >> Subject: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF > >> > >> First of all I want to thank everyone for this great advancement in the > >> hobby! > >> > >> > >> The CQ WW VHF was my first exposure to contest mode and it was a very > >> frustrating 27 hours. > >> > >> If I am in contest mode and I call CQ and get an answer from someone who > >> is not, there is essentially no way to complete a qso unless one side > >> changes into or out of contest mode. What happened to me is I would > >> switch and then the other side would switch and we would be opposite. > >> Frustrating! > >> > >> The main issue is that we cannot expect those not in the contest to have > >> to switch into a specific mode to work us. This does not happen in any > >> other contest. We cannot expect this from casual ops. I am glad they > >> want to work me. Being able to work them should be painless too! > >> > >> Why is contest mode needed? If a qso is good in contest mode with less > >> sequences I suggest that all FT8 exchanges be the same. Is there a > >> specific reason two have multiple sets of exchanges for in a contest and > >> not in a contest? I don't think so. > >> > >> I understand that this was an issue for the June VHF contest too. > >> > >> If you guys can move my xmit around in fox/hound mode, which worked out > >> really well, there has to be a solution for this. I believe that the > >> fox was still able to work people not running hound? We need the same > >> ability in contest mode. > >> > >> I believe that this is already being examined but I thought I would give > >> my feedback. I would be happy to provide more information if desired. > >> > >> Thanks again for all the hard work in bringing us FT8! > >> > >> W0MU > >> > >> > >> > -- > >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsdm.link%2Fslashdotdata=02%7C01%7C%7Cbe807b8121b94f841e5808d5f0f86e14%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636679872141956608sdata=4ngp%2FoSOWuPUakyW3qTn6b49JD01iE6jHJc%2BQlc6qbM%3Dreserved=0 > >> ___ > >> wsjt-devel mailing list > >> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >> > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fl
Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF
The best solution is one simple report for contests of normal operations at least for FT8. That would seem to eliminate lots of coding. It is works for a contest, it should work for day to day activities. People will have to change, will have to upgrade, etc. Speaking of upgrades has there been any talk of installing some code to alert people that they are using outdated software? This won't help everyone but many! What generally happened is that after a couple of overs both sides would switch modes and we were back to chasing our tails. I lost a number of contacts from this. W0MU On 7/24/2018 1:29 PM, Eric Gruff wrote: George, Not necessarily. If you call CQ in contest mode, and I answer expecting a "normal" QSO, I may give up when I get "NC6K KF2T FMxx". Or, I send "KF2T NC6K -3" and you send "NC6K KF2T R FMxx", and I'm ticked off b/c I didn't get a report. There are several permutations where it would just be simplest to force the responding station into the same mode. It won't help people answering a contest station who want their signal report, but at least it won't drive everyone crazy. 73 de NC6K -Original Message- From: George J Molnar Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 9:59 AM To: WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF Wouldn’t it be simpler to have the sequencer logic respond to R XX## without choking? If we can do away with antipodal grids, that should make both modes compatible. The sequences will continue and not be lengthened by either or both of the operators trying to switch. George J Molnar Virginia, USA On Jul 24, 2018, at 12:51 PM, Mark Spencer wrote: I'd support using an extra FT8 bit to explicitly indicate contest mode (using another extra bit to explicitly indicate a "/R" call would also be nice.) I realize there is a desire to keep FT8 and MSK144 functionality as similar as possible (and that MSK144 doesn't have the "extra bits" that FT8 has) but in practice I don't believe MSK144 has nearly as many contest mode / vs non contest mode issues. 73 Mark Spencer VE7AFZ netsyn...@gmail.com On Jul 24, 2018, at 9:38 AM, wrote: I also was more than a bit frustrated with the contest mode this past weekend. It's not a fault of the software, just that there's no way to know from someone's CQ whether they are in contest or QSO mode. A suggestion that is hopefully easy to code that might fix the problem - add a CQ predefined message that includes a binary flag to the software with 0=QSO mode and 1=contest mode. Then, when someone double-clicks on the CQ to respond, WSJT-X can switch to the appropriate mode. That will also help those of us in a contest that want to work non-contesters for points, even though those folks don't want to use contest mode. 73, Eric NC6K -Original Message- From: W0MU Mike Fatchett Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:37 PM To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF First of all I want to thank everyone for this great advancement in the hobby! The CQ WW VHF was my first exposure to contest mode and it was a very frustrating 27 hours. If I am in contest mode and I call CQ and get an answer from someone who is not, there is essentially no way to complete a qso unless one side changes into or out of contest mode. What happened to me is I would switch and then the other side would switch and we would be opposite. Frustrating! The main issue is that we cannot expect those not in the contest to have to switch into a specific mode to work us. This does not happen in any other contest. We cannot expect this from casual ops. I am glad they want to work me. Being able to work them should be painless too! Why is contest mode needed? If a qso is good in contest mode with less sequences I suggest that all FT8 exchanges be the same. Is there a specific reason two have multiple sets of exchanges for in a contest and not in a contest? I don't think so. I understand that this was an issue for the June VHF contest too. If you guys can move my xmit around in fox/hound mode, which worked out really well, there has to be a solution for this. I believe that the fox was still able to work people not running hound? We need the same ability in contest mode. I believe that this is already being examined but I thought I would give my feedback. I would be happy to provide more information if desired. Thanks again for all the hard work in bringing us FT8! W0MU -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel --
Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF
George, Not necessarily. If you call CQ in contest mode, and I answer expecting a "normal" QSO, I may give up when I get "NC6K KF2T FMxx". Or, I send "KF2T NC6K -3" and you send "NC6K KF2T R FMxx", and I'm ticked off b/c I didn't get a report. There are several permutations where it would just be simplest to force the responding station into the same mode. It won't help people answering a contest station who want their signal report, but at least it won't drive everyone crazy. 73 de NC6K -Original Message- From: George J Molnar Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 9:59 AM To: WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF Wouldn’t it be simpler to have the sequencer logic respond to R XX## without choking? If we can do away with antipodal grids, that should make both modes compatible. The sequences will continue and not be lengthened by either or both of the operators trying to switch. George J Molnar Virginia, USA > On Jul 24, 2018, at 12:51 PM, Mark Spencer wrote: > > I'd support using an extra FT8 bit to explicitly indicate contest mode (using > another extra bit to explicitly indicate a "/R" call would also be nice.) I > realize there is a desire to keep FT8 and MSK144 functionality as similar as > possible (and that MSK144 doesn't have the "extra bits" that FT8 has) but in > practice I don't believe MSK144 has nearly as many contest mode / vs non > contest mode issues. > > 73 > > Mark Spencer > VE7AFZ > netsyn...@gmail.com > > > >> On Jul 24, 2018, at 9:38 AM, wrote: >> >> I also was more than a bit frustrated with the contest mode this past >> weekend. It's not a fault of the software, just that there's no way to know >> from someone's CQ whether they are in contest or QSO mode. >> >> A suggestion that is hopefully easy to code that might fix the problem - add >> a CQ predefined message that includes a binary flag to the software with >> 0=QSO mode and 1=contest mode. Then, when someone double-clicks on the CQ to >> respond, WSJT-X can switch to the appropriate mode. That will also help >> those of us in a contest that want to work non-contesters for points, even >> though those folks don't want to use contest mode. >> >> 73, >> >> Eric NC6K >> >> -Original Message- >> From: W0MU Mike Fatchett >> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:37 PM >> To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> Subject: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF >> >> First of all I want to thank everyone for this great advancement in the >> hobby! >> >> >> The CQ WW VHF was my first exposure to contest mode and it was a very >> frustrating 27 hours. >> >> If I am in contest mode and I call CQ and get an answer from someone who >> is not, there is essentially no way to complete a qso unless one side >> changes into or out of contest mode. What happened to me is I would >> switch and then the other side would switch and we would be opposite. >> Frustrating! >> >> The main issue is that we cannot expect those not in the contest to have >> to switch into a specific mode to work us. This does not happen in any >> other contest. We cannot expect this from casual ops. I am glad they >> want to work me. Being able to work them should be painless too! >> >> Why is contest mode needed? If a qso is good in contest mode with less >> sequences I suggest that all FT8 exchanges be the same. Is there a >> specific reason two have multiple sets of exchanges for in a contest and >> not in a contest? I don't think so. >> >> I understand that this was an issue for the June VHF contest too. >> >> If you guys can move my xmit around in fox/hound mode, which worked out >> really well, there has to be a solution for this. I believe that the >> fox was still able to work people not running hound? We need the same >> ability in contest mode. >> >> I believe that this is already being examined but I thought I would give >> my feedback. I would be happy to provide more information if desired. >> >> Thanks again for all the hard work in bringing us FT8! >> >> W0MU >> >> >> -- >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> ___ >> wsjt-devel mailing list >> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-de
Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF
Sorry I should have been more clear in my last email. I support the idea of using the extra bits in FT8 to indicate contest mode and "/R" calls. I'm sorry I couldn't undertake to code this and provide support to the users. I would be happy to help test this. Thanks again to the WSJT-x team for their efforts. Mark Spencer VE7AFZ netsyn...@gmail.com > On Jul 24, 2018, at 9:51 AM, Mark Spencer wrote: > > I'd support using an extra FT8 bit to explicitly indicate contest mode (using > another extra bit to explicitly indicate a "/R" call would also be nice.) I > realize there is a desire to keep FT8 and MSK144 functionality as similar as > possible (and that MSK144 doesn't have the "extra bits" that FT8 has) but in > practice I don't believe MSK144 has nearly as many contest mode / vs non > contest mode issues. > > 73 > > Mark Spencer > VE7AFZ > netsyn...@gmail.com > > > >> On Jul 24, 2018, at 9:38 AM, wrote: >> >> I also was more than a bit frustrated with the contest mode this past >> weekend. It's not a fault of the software, just that there's no way to know >> from someone's CQ whether they are in contest or QSO mode. >> >> A suggestion that is hopefully easy to code that might fix the problem - add >> a CQ predefined message that includes a binary flag to the software with >> 0=QSO mode and 1=contest mode. Then, when someone double-clicks on the CQ to >> respond, WSJT-X can switch to the appropriate mode. That will also help >> those of us in a contest that want to work non-contesters for points, even >> though those folks don't want to use contest mode. >> >> 73, >> >> Eric NC6K >> >> -Original Message- >> From: W0MU Mike Fatchett >> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:37 PM >> To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> Subject: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF >> >> First of all I want to thank everyone for this great advancement in the >> hobby! >> >> >> The CQ WW VHF was my first exposure to contest mode and it was a very >> frustrating 27 hours. >> >> If I am in contest mode and I call CQ and get an answer from someone who >> is not, there is essentially no way to complete a qso unless one side >> changes into or out of contest mode. What happened to me is I would >> switch and then the other side would switch and we would be opposite. >> Frustrating! >> >> The main issue is that we cannot expect those not in the contest to have >> to switch into a specific mode to work us. This does not happen in any >> other contest. We cannot expect this from casual ops. I am glad they >> want to work me. Being able to work them should be painless too! >> >> Why is contest mode needed? If a qso is good in contest mode with less >> sequences I suggest that all FT8 exchanges be the same. Is there a >> specific reason two have multiple sets of exchanges for in a contest and >> not in a contest? I don't think so. >> >> I understand that this was an issue for the June VHF contest too. >> >> If you guys can move my xmit around in fox/hound mode, which worked out >> really well, there has to be a solution for this. I believe that the >> fox was still able to work people not running hound? We need the same >> ability in contest mode. >> >> I believe that this is already being examined but I thought I would give >> my feedback. I would be happy to provide more information if desired. >> >> Thanks again for all the hard work in bringing us FT8! >> >> W0MU >> >> >> -- >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> ___ >> wsjt-devel mailing list >> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel >> >> >> -- >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> ___ >> wsjt-devel mailing list >> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF
Wouldn’t it be simpler to have the sequencer logic respond to R XX## without choking? If we can do away with antipodal grids, that should make both modes compatible. The sequences will continue and not be lengthened by either or both of the operators trying to switch. George J Molnar Virginia, USA > On Jul 24, 2018, at 12:51 PM, Mark Spencer wrote: > > I'd support using an extra FT8 bit to explicitly indicate contest mode (using > another extra bit to explicitly indicate a "/R" call would also be nice.) I > realize there is a desire to keep FT8 and MSK144 functionality as similar as > possible (and that MSK144 doesn't have the "extra bits" that FT8 has) but in > practice I don't believe MSK144 has nearly as many contest mode / vs non > contest mode issues. > > 73 > > Mark Spencer > VE7AFZ > netsyn...@gmail.com > > > >> On Jul 24, 2018, at 9:38 AM, wrote: >> >> I also was more than a bit frustrated with the contest mode this past >> weekend. It's not a fault of the software, just that there's no way to know >> from someone's CQ whether they are in contest or QSO mode. >> >> A suggestion that is hopefully easy to code that might fix the problem - add >> a CQ predefined message that includes a binary flag to the software with >> 0=QSO mode and 1=contest mode. Then, when someone double-clicks on the CQ to >> respond, WSJT-X can switch to the appropriate mode. That will also help >> those of us in a contest that want to work non-contesters for points, even >> though those folks don't want to use contest mode. >> >> 73, >> >> Eric NC6K >> >> -Original Message- >> From: W0MU Mike Fatchett >> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:37 PM >> To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> Subject: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF >> >> First of all I want to thank everyone for this great advancement in the >> hobby! >> >> >> The CQ WW VHF was my first exposure to contest mode and it was a very >> frustrating 27 hours. >> >> If I am in contest mode and I call CQ and get an answer from someone who >> is not, there is essentially no way to complete a qso unless one side >> changes into or out of contest mode. What happened to me is I would >> switch and then the other side would switch and we would be opposite. >> Frustrating! >> >> The main issue is that we cannot expect those not in the contest to have >> to switch into a specific mode to work us. This does not happen in any >> other contest. We cannot expect this from casual ops. I am glad they >> want to work me. Being able to work them should be painless too! >> >> Why is contest mode needed? If a qso is good in contest mode with less >> sequences I suggest that all FT8 exchanges be the same. Is there a >> specific reason two have multiple sets of exchanges for in a contest and >> not in a contest? I don't think so. >> >> I understand that this was an issue for the June VHF contest too. >> >> If you guys can move my xmit around in fox/hound mode, which worked out >> really well, there has to be a solution for this. I believe that the >> fox was still able to work people not running hound? We need the same >> ability in contest mode. >> >> I believe that this is already being examined but I thought I would give >> my feedback. I would be happy to provide more information if desired. >> >> Thanks again for all the hard work in bringing us FT8! >> >> W0MU >> >> >> -- >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> ___ >> wsjt-devel mailing list >> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel >> >> >> -- >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> ___ >> wsjt-devel mailing list >> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF
I'd support using an extra FT8 bit to explicitly indicate contest mode (using another extra bit to explicitly indicate a "/R" call would also be nice.) I realize there is a desire to keep FT8 and MSK144 functionality as similar as possible (and that MSK144 doesn't have the "extra bits" that FT8 has) but in practice I don't believe MSK144 has nearly as many contest mode / vs non contest mode issues. 73 Mark Spencer VE7AFZ netsyn...@gmail.com > On Jul 24, 2018, at 9:38 AM, wrote: > > I also was more than a bit frustrated with the contest mode this past > weekend. It's not a fault of the software, just that there's no way to know > from someone's CQ whether they are in contest or QSO mode. > > A suggestion that is hopefully easy to code that might fix the problem - add > a CQ predefined message that includes a binary flag to the software with > 0=QSO mode and 1=contest mode. Then, when someone double-clicks on the CQ to > respond, WSJT-X can switch to the appropriate mode. That will also help those > of us in a contest that want to work non-contesters for points, even though > those folks don't want to use contest mode. > > 73, > > Eric NC6K > > -Original Message- > From: W0MU Mike Fatchett > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:37 PM > To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF > > First of all I want to thank everyone for this great advancement in the hobby! > > > The CQ WW VHF was my first exposure to contest mode and it was a very > frustrating 27 hours. > > If I am in contest mode and I call CQ and get an answer from someone who > is not, there is essentially no way to complete a qso unless one side > changes into or out of contest mode. What happened to me is I would > switch and then the other side would switch and we would be opposite. > Frustrating! > > The main issue is that we cannot expect those not in the contest to have > to switch into a specific mode to work us. This does not happen in any > other contest. We cannot expect this from casual ops. I am glad they > want to work me. Being able to work them should be painless too! > > Why is contest mode needed? If a qso is good in contest mode with less > sequences I suggest that all FT8 exchanges be the same. Is there a > specific reason two have multiple sets of exchanges for in a contest and > not in a contest? I don't think so. > > I understand that this was an issue for the June VHF contest too. > > If you guys can move my xmit around in fox/hound mode, which worked out > really well, there has to be a solution for this. I believe that the > fox was still able to work people not running hound? We need the same > ability in contest mode. > > I believe that this is already being examined but I thought I would give > my feedback. I would be happy to provide more information if desired. > > Thanks again for all the hard work in bringing us FT8! > > W0MU > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF
I also was more than a bit frustrated with the contest mode this past weekend. It's not a fault of the software, just that there's no way to know from someone's CQ whether they are in contest or QSO mode. A suggestion that is hopefully easy to code that might fix the problem - add a CQ predefined message that includes a binary flag to the software with 0=QSO mode and 1=contest mode. Then, when someone double-clicks on the CQ to respond, WSJT-X can switch to the appropriate mode. That will also help those of us in a contest that want to work non-contesters for points, even though those folks don't want to use contest mode. 73, Eric NC6K -Original Message- From: W0MU Mike Fatchett Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:37 PM To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF First of all I want to thank everyone for this great advancement in the hobby! The CQ WW VHF was my first exposure to contest mode and it was a very frustrating 27 hours. If I am in contest mode and I call CQ and get an answer from someone who is not, there is essentially no way to complete a qso unless one side changes into or out of contest mode. What happened to me is I would switch and then the other side would switch and we would be opposite. Frustrating! The main issue is that we cannot expect those not in the contest to have to switch into a specific mode to work us. This does not happen in any other contest. We cannot expect this from casual ops. I am glad they want to work me. Being able to work them should be painless too! Why is contest mode needed? If a qso is good in contest mode with less sequences I suggest that all FT8 exchanges be the same. Is there a specific reason two have multiple sets of exchanges for in a contest and not in a contest? I don't think so. I understand that this was an issue for the June VHF contest too. If you guys can move my xmit around in fox/hound mode, which worked out really well, there has to be a solution for this. I believe that the fox was still able to work people not running hound? We need the same ability in contest mode. I believe that this is already being examined but I thought I would give my feedback. I would be happy to provide more information if desired. Thanks again for all the hard work in bringing us FT8! W0MU -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF
Perhaps these contests should be on a separate frequency designated to be operated as "contest mode"? Bill W2PKY On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 7:37 PM W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote: > First of all I want to thank everyone for this great advancement in the > hobby! > > > The CQ WW VHF was my first exposure to contest mode and it was a very > frustrating 27 hours. > > If I am in contest mode and I call CQ and get an answer from someone who > is not, there is essentially no way to complete a qso unless one side > changes into or out of contest mode. What happened to me is I would > switch and then the other side would switch and we would be opposite. > Frustrating! > > The main issue is that we cannot expect those not in the contest to have > to switch into a specific mode to work us. This does not happen in any > other contest. We cannot expect this from casual ops. I am glad they > want to work me. Being able to work them should be painless too! > > Why is contest mode needed? If a qso is good in contest mode with less > sequences I suggest that all FT8 exchanges be the same. Is there a > specific reason two have multiple sets of exchanges for in a contest and > not in a contest? I don't think so. > > I understand that this was an issue for the June VHF contest too. > > If you guys can move my xmit around in fox/hound mode, which worked out > really well, there has to be a solution for this. I believe that the > fox was still able to work people not running hound? We need the same > ability in contest mode. > > I believe that this is already being examined but I thought I would give > my feedback. I would be happy to provide more information if desired. > > Thanks again for all the hard work in bringing us FT8! > > W0MU > > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF
This had nothing to do with DX. The exchange was the grid DX or not. The issue is that you cannot work people if they are in contest mode and you are not. W0MU On 7/23/2018 6:22 PM, rjai...@gmail.com wrote: NA VHF Contest mode should not be used in a DX contest, or at least one with significant potential for DX. It was frustrating for me too, mostly because of the inconsistency. 73 Ria, N2RJ On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 8:15 PM David Fisher wrote: Sometimes stations would call “CQ WW ”. In that case, it was easy to select contest mode and return the call. But in many other cases, the other station would give no hint he was in contest mode until his mangled grid square was received. In those cases I got the pop up that prompted me to turn on contest mode. I did so, but all of that takes time, coordination and practice to make work smoothly. I one case that I ran as an experiment, I called CQ in contest mode, got a reply, then got a message through JTAlertX asking what I was doing and why my grid square didn’t make sense. Etc. etc. etc. Bottom line – I wasn’t in the contest, but I made a mess of a number of other station’s contest mode QSOs, which defeated the intent of contest mode. Dave / NX6D From: W0MU Mike Fatchett Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:37:07 PM To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF First of all I want to thank everyone for this great advancement in the hobby! The CQ WW VHF was my first exposure to contest mode and it was a very frustrating 27 hours. If I am in contest mode and I call CQ and get an answer from someone who is not, there is essentially no way to complete a qso unless one side changes into or out of contest mode. What happened to me is I would switch and then the other side would switch and we would be opposite. Frustrating! The main issue is that we cannot expect those not in the contest to have to switch into a specific mode to work us. This does not happen in any other contest. We cannot expect this from casual ops. I am glad they want to work me. Being able to work them should be painless too! Why is contest mode needed? If a qso is good in contest mode with less sequences I suggest that all FT8 exchanges be the same. Is there a specific reason two have multiple sets of exchanges for in a contest and not in a contest? I don't think so. I understand that this was an issue for the June VHF contest too. If you guys can move my xmit around in fox/hound mode, which worked out really well, there has to be a solution for this. I believe that the fox was still able to work people not running hound? We need the same ability in contest mode. I believe that this is already being examined but I thought I would give my feedback. I would be happy to provide more information if desired. Thanks again for all the hard work in bringing us FT8! W0MU -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsdm.link%2Fslashdotdata=02%7C01%7C%7Cbe807b8121b94f841e5808d5f0f86e14%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636679872141956608sdata=4ngp%2FoSOWuPUakyW3qTn6b49JD01iE6jHJc%2BQlc6qbM%3Dreserved=0 ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Fwsjt-develdata=02%7C01%7C%7Cbe807b8121b94f841e5808d5f0f86e14%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636679872141956608sdata=AiDSOG94NAAree6BMP1FFzeJk%2B6exoF2EylLUp9fu08%3Dreserved=0 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF
NA VHF Contest mode should not be used in a DX contest, or at least one with significant potential for DX. It was frustrating for me too, mostly because of the inconsistency. 73 Ria, N2RJ On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 8:15 PM David Fisher wrote: > > Sometimes stations would call “CQ WW ”. In that case, it was easy > to select contest mode and return the call. But in many other cases, the > other station would give no hint he was in contest mode until his mangled > grid square was received. In those cases I got the pop up that prompted me > to turn on contest mode. I did so, but all of that takes time, coordination > and practice to make work smoothly. > > > > I one case that I ran as an experiment, I called CQ in contest mode, got a > reply, then got a message through JTAlertX asking what I was doing and why my > grid square didn’t make sense. Etc. etc. etc. > > > > Bottom line – I wasn’t in the contest, but I made a mess of a number of other > station’s contest mode QSOs, which defeated the intent of contest mode. > > > > Dave / NX6D > > > > > > > > > From: W0MU Mike Fatchett > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:37:07 PM > To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF > > First of all I want to thank everyone for this great advancement in the > hobby! > > > The CQ WW VHF was my first exposure to contest mode and it was a very > frustrating 27 hours. > > If I am in contest mode and I call CQ and get an answer from someone who > is not, there is essentially no way to complete a qso unless one side > changes into or out of contest mode. What happened to me is I would > switch and then the other side would switch and we would be opposite. > Frustrating! > > The main issue is that we cannot expect those not in the contest to have > to switch into a specific mode to work us. This does not happen in any > other contest. We cannot expect this from casual ops. I am glad they > want to work me. Being able to work them should be painless too! > > Why is contest mode needed? If a qso is good in contest mode with less > sequences I suggest that all FT8 exchanges be the same. Is there a > specific reason two have multiple sets of exchanges for in a contest and > not in a contest? I don't think so. > > I understand that this was an issue for the June VHF contest too. > > If you guys can move my xmit around in fox/hound mode, which worked out > really well, there has to be a solution for this. I believe that the > fox was still able to work people not running hound? We need the same > ability in contest mode. > > I believe that this is already being examined but I thought I would give > my feedback. I would be happy to provide more information if desired. > > Thanks again for all the hard work in bringing us FT8! > > W0MU > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsdm.link%2Fslashdotdata=02%7C01%7C%7Cbe807b8121b94f841e5808d5f0f86e14%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636679872141956608sdata=4ngp%2FoSOWuPUakyW3qTn6b49JD01iE6jHJc%2BQlc6qbM%3Dreserved=0 > ___ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Fwsjt-develdata=02%7C01%7C%7Cbe807b8121b94f841e5808d5f0f86e14%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636679872141956608sdata=AiDSOG94NAAree6BMP1FFzeJk%2B6exoF2EylLUp9fu08%3Dreserved=0 > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! > http://sdm.link/slashdot___ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF
Sometimes stations would call “CQ WW ”. In that case, it was easy to select contest mode and return the call. But in many other cases, the other station would give no hint he was in contest mode until his mangled grid square was received. In those cases I got the pop up that prompted me to turn on contest mode. I did so, but all of that takes time, coordination and practice to make work smoothly. I one case that I ran as an experiment, I called CQ in contest mode, got a reply, then got a message through JTAlertX asking what I was doing and why my grid square didn’t make sense. Etc. etc. etc. Bottom line – I wasn’t in the contest, but I made a mess of a number of other station’s contest mode QSOs, which defeated the intent of contest mode. Dave / NX6D From: W0MU Mike Fatchett Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:37:07 PM To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF First of all I want to thank everyone for this great advancement in the hobby! The CQ WW VHF was my first exposure to contest mode and it was a very frustrating 27 hours. If I am in contest mode and I call CQ and get an answer from someone who is not, there is essentially no way to complete a qso unless one side changes into or out of contest mode. What happened to me is I would switch and then the other side would switch and we would be opposite. Frustrating! The main issue is that we cannot expect those not in the contest to have to switch into a specific mode to work us. This does not happen in any other contest. We cannot expect this from casual ops. I am glad they want to work me. Being able to work them should be painless too! Why is contest mode needed? If a qso is good in contest mode with less sequences I suggest that all FT8 exchanges be the same. Is there a specific reason two have multiple sets of exchanges for in a contest and not in a contest? I don't think so. I understand that this was an issue for the June VHF contest too. If you guys can move my xmit around in fox/hound mode, which worked out really well, there has to be a solution for this. I believe that the fox was still able to work people not running hound? We need the same ability in contest mode. I believe that this is already being examined but I thought I would give my feedback. I would be happy to provide more information if desired. Thanks again for all the hard work in bringing us FT8! W0MU -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsdm.link%2Fslashdotdata=02%7C01%7C%7Cbe807b8121b94f841e5808d5f0f86e14%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636679872141956608sdata=4ngp%2FoSOWuPUakyW3qTn6b49JD01iE6jHJc%2BQlc6qbM%3Dreserved=0 ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Fwsjt-develdata=02%7C01%7C%7Cbe807b8121b94f841e5808d5f0f86e14%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636679872141956608sdata=AiDSOG94NAAree6BMP1FFzeJk%2B6exoF2EylLUp9fu08%3Dreserved=0 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
[wsjt-devel] Contest mode CQVHF
First of all I want to thank everyone for this great advancement in the hobby! The CQ WW VHF was my first exposure to contest mode and it was a very frustrating 27 hours. If I am in contest mode and I call CQ and get an answer from someone who is not, there is essentially no way to complete a qso unless one side changes into or out of contest mode. What happened to me is I would switch and then the other side would switch and we would be opposite. Frustrating! The main issue is that we cannot expect those not in the contest to have to switch into a specific mode to work us. This does not happen in any other contest. We cannot expect this from casual ops. I am glad they want to work me. Being able to work them should be painless too! Why is contest mode needed? If a qso is good in contest mode with less sequences I suggest that all FT8 exchanges be the same. Is there a specific reason two have multiple sets of exchanges for in a contest and not in a contest? I don't think so. I understand that this was an issue for the June VHF contest too. If you guys can move my xmit around in fox/hound mode, which worked out really well, there has to be a solution for this. I believe that the fox was still able to work people not running hound? We need the same ability in contest mode. I believe that this is already being examined but I thought I would give my feedback. I would be happy to provide more information if desired. Thanks again for all the hard work in bringing us FT8! W0MU -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
