Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Jim Shorney]

Well Gary, in the case of the USA the stateside "locals" are happily working 
each other over and over again on HF, with relatively few trying to work DX. 

I can't comment on six since I don't have a presence there.

73

-Jim
NU0C

On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 14:12:07 -0600
Gary McDuffie  wrote:

> > On Jul 9, 2021, at 19:11, Jim Shorney  wrote:
> > 
> > I would like to see a defined DX window also. Despite the WSJT-X magic 
> > ability to separate signals the DX is often buried under the "locals”.  
> 
> I suppose the “locals” aren’t working DX?  JA and EU both prefer to be 1st, 
> so I would assume most of the locals would be 2nd/odd.  Works out well on 
> six, especially between a few of the guys west of me whose signals look dirty 
> (but aren’t) because of mountain reflections.  They are frequently showing up 
> as triple signals, and I know I do to them also.  Add a few aircraft 
> reflections coming out of DIA and we are quite thankful that we all 
> transmitting at the same time most of the time.
> 
> Gary - AG0N
> 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Gary McDuffie]

> On Jul 9, 2021, at 19:11, Jim Shorney  wrote:
> 
> I would like to see a defined DX window also. Despite the WSJT-X magic 
> ability to separate signals the DX is often buried under the "locals”.

I suppose the “locals” aren’t working DX?  JA and EU both prefer to be 1st, so 
I would assume most of the locals would be 2nd/odd.  Works out well on six, 
especially between a few of the guys west of me whose signals look dirty (but 
aren’t) because of mountain reflections.  They are frequently showing up as 
triple signals, and I know I do to them also.  Add a few aircraft reflections 
coming out of DIA and we are quite thankful that we all transmitting at the 
same time most of the time.

Gary - AG0N

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Claude Frantz]

On 7/9/21 7:59 PM, Joe Taylor wrote:

Hi Joe and all,

But I agree that larger FT8 sub-bands (or multiple sub-bands 
on a given HF band) are really what is required to relieve congestion.


The current bandplans are often unrealistic. The CW only part is often 
by far too large. See the 2200 m band or the 30 m band as examples.


Best wishes,
Claude (DJ0OT)


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Jim Shorney]

I would like to see a defined DX window also. Despite the WSJT-X magic ability 
to separate signals the DX is often buried under the "locals". 

73

-Jim
NU0C

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 13:59:23 -0400
Joe Taylor  wrote:

> Hi Al,
> 
> As Bill has explained, the WSJT-X Rx bandwidth is currently limited to 
> 5000 Hz.  But I agree that larger FT8 sub-bands (or multiple sub-bands 
> on a given HF band) are really what is required to relieve congestion.
> 
>   -- 73, Joe, K1JT
> 
> On 7/9/2021 11:54 AM, Al Pawlowski wrote:
> > Given FT8’s growth, a built-in way to ask for a jump to an clear frequency, 
> > or channel, certainly seems like a good idea. However, a larger channel is 
> > what really seems to be needed. This could be accomplished (other mode user 
> > squawks not considered) by just setting the WSJTx, and radio, rx bandwidths 
> > higher. With my setup, I can work up to a 4500Hz FT8 channel. If more users 
> > were to use larger BW, it might be a significant congestion relief.
> > 
> > Though my rig can go to Hz rx BW and WSJTx v2.4.0 set to 6000Hz, 
> > 4500kHz is all I can get - above that, decodes stop and the waterfall fills 
> > with noise. I wonder if the limit is due to my CPU speed (usage increases 
> > with BW and channel activity) or a WSJTx thing. Reports from others doing 
> > larger BW would be interesting.
> > 
> >   
> > Al Pawlowski, K6AVP
> > Los Osos, CA USA
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[William Smith]

Well, yes, but using split or fake-it you could be 100KHz off and still be 
transmitting a perfect signal.

Didn't take long to get a 40M FT8 QSO at 3KHz this afternoon when the band was 
essentially dead.

It all depends on the _other_ guys receive capabiltiies, and that's not 
something we can control.

73, Willie N1JBJ

> On Jul 9, 2021, at 3:58 PM, Al Pawlowski  wrote:
> 
> I agree getting newer equipment regularly can be a problem. However, I have 
> seen many PSK Reporter spots of my CQ’s at around 4kHz (channel Tx) so there 
> does seem to be stations that can handle that range - i always use split 
> mode, so that probably helps. 
> 
> Al Pawlowski, K6AVP
> Los Osos, CA USA
> 
> 
>> On Jul 9, 2021, at 10:59, wsjt-devel-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> From: Gary McDuffie mailto:wb0...@gmail.com>>
>> To: WSJT software development > >
>> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY
>>  to your Frequency
>> 
>> Remember, we are mostly using single sideband radios.  They weren?t designed 
>> to be broadband receivers or transmitters.  When you get above about 3500, 
>> you?ll find few people to go with you (jmho).  I venture up there now and 
>> then, but I have no idea how the distortion or response is above 3K.  For 
>> WSJT-X, I run 3400 receive high cutoff with 100 or sometimes zero as low end 
>> cutoff.  Just yesterday, I saw someone about 3200, but he wasn?t doing well 
>> as far as pulling people up there. He was the only one.
>> 
>> I was pleased last week when Europe opened up strong to our part of the 
>> country.  Not only was 50.313 heavily loaded, but .323 was about 85-90% as 
>> full and stayed that way.  
>> 
>> Until the majority of the people have broadband receivers, the VFO will be 
>> the ruling factor as far as I can see.  Not many people can run down to the 
>> corner radio store and grab a new radio off the shelf just to add some extra 
>> bandwidth for digital modes.
>> 
>> Gary - AG0N
> 
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[wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Al Pawlowski]

I agree getting newer equipment regularly can be a problem. However, I have 
seen many PSK Reporter spots of my CQ’s at around 4kHz (channel Tx) so there 
does seem to be stations that can handle that range - i always use split mode, 
so that probably helps. 

Al Pawlowski, K6AVP
Los Osos, CA USA


> On Jul 9, 2021, at 10:59, wsjt-devel-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> 
> From: Gary McDuffie mailto:wb0...@gmail.com>>
> To: WSJT software development  >
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY
>   to your Frequency
> 
> Remember, we are mostly using single sideband radios.  They weren?t designed 
> to be broadband receivers or transmitters.  When you get above about 3500, 
> you?ll find few people to go with you (jmho).  I venture up there now and 
> then, but I have no idea how the distortion or response is above 3K.  For 
> WSJT-X, I run 3400 receive high cutoff with 100 or sometimes zero as low end 
> cutoff.  Just yesterday, I saw someone about 3200, but he wasn?t doing well 
> as far as pulling people up there. He was the only one.
> 
> I was pleased last week when Europe opened up strong to our part of the 
> country.  Not only was 50.313 heavily loaded, but .323 was about 85-90% as 
> full and stayed that way.  
> 
> Until the majority of the people have broadband receivers, the VFO will be 
> the ruling factor as far as I can see.  Not many people can run down to the 
> corner radio store and grab a new radio off the shelf just to add some extra 
> bandwidth for digital modes.
> 
> Gary - AG0N

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[KC7QY]

Joe,
Do actually want people to turn the dial? How arcane is that?
Jim KC7QY 

On Friday, July 9, 2021, 12:02:36 PM MDT, Joe Taylor  
wrote:  
 
 Hi Al,

As Bill has explained, the WSJT-X Rx bandwidth is currently limited to 
5000 Hz.  But I agree that larger FT8 sub-bands (or multiple sub-bands 
on a given HF band) are really what is required to relieve congestion.

    -- 73, Joe, K1JT

On 7/9/2021 11:54 AM, Al Pawlowski wrote:
> Given FT8’s growth, a built-in way to ask for a jump to an clear frequency, 
> or channel, certainly seems like a good idea. However, a larger channel is 
> what really seems to be needed. This could be accomplished (other mode user 
> squawks not considered) by just setting the WSJTx, and radio, rx bandwidths 
> higher. With my setup, I can work up to a 4500Hz FT8 channel. If more users 
> were to use larger BW, it might be a significant congestion relief.
> 
> Though my rig can go to Hz rx BW and WSJTx v2.4.0 set to 6000Hz, 4500kHz 
> is all I can get - above that, decodes stop and the waterfall fills with 
> noise. I wonder if the limit is due to my CPU speed (usage increases with BW 
> and channel activity) or a WSJTx thing. Reports from others doing larger BW 
> would be interesting.
> 
>  
> Al Pawlowski, K6AVP
> Los Osos, CA USA
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Jim Brown]

On 7/9/2021 10:59 AM, Joe Taylor wrote:
As Bill has explained, the WSJT-X Rx bandwidth is currently limited to 
5000 Hz.  But I agree that larger FT8 sub-bands (or multiple sub-bands 
on a given HF band) are really what is required to relieve congestion.


On 6M at least, our use of spectrum for WSJT modes is quite wasteful. 
There's no good reason why dial frequencies of 50.310, .313, and .316 
could not be used, providing 9 kHz of total bandwidth, but tying up only 
9 kHz.


Better yet, if the FT8 watering hole would have been established 50 kHz 
lower in the band, those of us using a K3, K3S, or KX3 with P3 or PX3 
spectrum display, which has a max display width of 200 kHz, could 
monitor CW and SSB while working FT8. I was able to do that in the JT65 
days, switching between the modes to work three SA stations in two 
countries and 3 grids during a TE opening.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Serge Szpilfogel]

You guys should try EME lots of room.
Serge VE1KG

-Original Message-
From: Joe Taylor  
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2021 17:59
To: WSJT software development ; Al Pawlowski 

Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your 
Frequency

Hi Al,

As Bill has explained, the WSJT-X Rx bandwidth is currently limited to
5000 Hz.  But I agree that larger FT8 sub-bands (or multiple sub-bands on a 
given HF band) are really what is required to relieve congestion.

-- 73, Joe, K1JT

On 7/9/2021 11:54 AM, Al Pawlowski wrote:
> Given FT8’s growth, a built-in way to ask for a jump to an clear frequency, 
> or channel, certainly seems like a good idea. However, a larger channel is 
> what really seems to be needed. This could be accomplished (other mode user 
> squawks not considered) by just setting the WSJTx, and radio, rx bandwidths 
> higher. With my setup, I can work up to a 4500Hz FT8 channel. If more users 
> were to use larger BW, it might be a significant congestion relief.
> 
> Though my rig can go to Hz rx BW and WSJTx v2.4.0 set to 6000Hz, 4500kHz 
> is all I can get - above that, decodes stop and the waterfall fills with 
> noise. I wonder if the limit is due to my CPU speed (usage increases with BW 
> and channel activity) or a WSJTx thing. Reports from others doing larger BW 
> would be interesting.
> 
>   
> Al Pawlowski, K6AVP
> Los Osos, CA USA
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Joe Taylor]

Hi Al,

As Bill has explained, the WSJT-X Rx bandwidth is currently limited to 
5000 Hz.  But I agree that larger FT8 sub-bands (or multiple sub-bands 
on a given HF band) are really what is required to relieve congestion.


-- 73, Joe, K1JT

On 7/9/2021 11:54 AM, Al Pawlowski wrote:

Given FT8’s growth, a built-in way to ask for a jump to an clear frequency, or 
channel, certainly seems like a good idea. However, a larger channel is what 
really seems to be needed. This could be accomplished (other mode user squawks 
not considered) by just setting the WSJTx, and radio, rx bandwidths higher. 
With my setup, I can work up to a 4500Hz FT8 channel. If more users were to use 
larger BW, it might be a significant congestion relief.

Though my rig can go to Hz rx BW and WSJTx v2.4.0 set to 6000Hz, 4500kHz is 
all I can get - above that, decodes stop and the waterfall fills with noise. I 
wonder if the limit is due to my CPU speed (usage increases with BW and channel 
activity) or a WSJTx thing. Reports from others doing larger BW would be 
interesting.

  
Al Pawlowski, K6AVP

Los Osos, CA USA



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Bill Somerville]

On 09/07/2021 16:54, Al Pawlowski wrote:

Given FT8’s growth, a built-in way to ask for a jump to an clear frequency, or 
channel, certainly seems like a good idea. However, a larger channel is what 
really seems to be needed. This could be accomplished (other mode user squawks 
not considered) by just setting the WSJTx, and radio, rx bandwidths higher. 
With my setup, I can work up to a 4500Hz FT8 channel. If more users were to use 
larger BW, it might be a significant congestion relief.

Though my rig can go to Hz rx BW and WSJTx v2.4.0 set to 6000Hz, 4500kHz is 
all I can get - above that, decodes stop and the waterfall fills with noise. I 
wonder if the limit is due to my CPU speed (usage increases with BW and channel 
activity) or a WSJTx thing. Reports from others doing larger BW would be 
interesting.

  
Al Pawlowski, K6AVP

Los Osos, CA USA


Hi Al,

the Rx bandwidth of the WSJT-X application is limited to around 5000 Hz, 
this is fundamental as the first processing step is to down-sample the 
audio source to 12,000 Hz which in turn is LP filtered to 5000 Hz to 
eliminate artefact aliases due to the wrap around nature of DFT.


73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Gary McDuffie]

> On Jul 9, 2021, at 9:54 AM, Al Pawlowski  wrote:
> 
> Though my rig can go to Hz rx BW and WSJTx v2.4.0 set to 6000Hz, 4500kHz 
> is all I can get - above that, decodes stop and the waterfall fills with 
> noise. I wonder if the limit is due to my CPU speed (usage increases with BW 
> and channel activity) or a WSJTx thing. Reports from others doing larger BW 
> would be interesting.

Remember, we are mostly using single sideband radios.  They weren’t designed to 
be broadband receivers or transmitters.  When you get above about 3500, you’ll 
find few people to go with you (jmho).  I venture up there now and then, but I 
have no idea how the distortion or response is above 3K.  For WSJT-X, I run 
3400 receive high cutoff with 100 or sometimes zero as low end cutoff.  Just 
yesterday, I saw someone about 3200, but he wasn’t doing well as far as pulling 
people up there. He was the only one.

I was pleased last week when Europe opened up strong to our part of the 
country.  Not only was 50.313 heavily loaded, but .323 was about 85-90% as full 
and stayed that way.  

Until the majority of the people have broadband receivers, the VFO will be the 
ruling factor as far as I can see.  Not many people can run down to the corner 
radio store and grab a new radio off the shelf just to add some extra bandwidth 
for digital modes.

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[wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Al Pawlowski]

Given FT8’s growth, a built-in way to ask for a jump to an clear frequency, or 
channel, certainly seems like a good idea. However, a larger channel is what 
really seems to be needed. This could be accomplished (other mode user squawks 
not considered) by just setting the WSJTx, and radio, rx bandwidths higher. 
With my setup, I can work up to a 4500Hz FT8 channel. If more users were to use 
larger BW, it might be a significant congestion relief.

Though my rig can go to Hz rx BW and WSJTx v2.4.0 set to 6000Hz, 4500kHz is 
all I can get - above that, decodes stop and the waterfall fills with noise. I 
wonder if the limit is due to my CPU speed (usage increases with BW and channel 
activity) or a WSJTx thing. Reports from others doing larger BW would be 
interesting.

 
Al Pawlowski, K6AVP
Los Osos, CA USA



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Saku]

I am not JTDX user but happened just give help to one ham who uses it.
That guy was wondering why he sees just some decoded stations even when 
waterfall seems to be full of them.


It seems to be that JTDX has some kind of internal filter that decodes 
just a part of whole audio band. I do not know how this filter reacts 
during qso if opponent station jumps very far from CQ-callers frequency.

At least during monitoring it drops away decodes outside filter area.

This could be one reason.

Another is rig's filters. Usually older rigs go just a bit over 2500Hz 
where the latest ones go happy to near 4000Hz.
JTDX filter, old rigs or too narrow rig filters in use are the reasons 
that may drive stations to same small area of used audio band.


--
Saku
OH1KH

Jim Brown kirjoitti 8.7.2021 klo 22.23:

On 7/8/2021 12:02 PM, Jon Anhold wrote:
There are absolutely guys running narrow filters where you have to 
get very close to them, or even right ON their frequency for them to 
hear you. Apparently they have no idea what they are missing.


Not only missing callers, but also degrading the decoding process, as 
a result of the phase shift in those filters. Joe has made it clear in 
the User Guide that RX bandwidth should be wide, to minimize this effect.


But many fail to study the User Guide, nor Release Notes, nor Quick 
Start Guides.


73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Ray Rocker]

Yeah, that would be a really useful addition if it's in fact feasible.

I have a "QRM UR FREQ" free-form message that I use in these
situations. Sometimes people get it, sometimes not.

-- Ray WQ5L


On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 2:24 AM Saku  wrote:
>
> Yes!
>
> I have suggested this kind of solution years ago.
> Now I have tried free message "QSY MY QRG" but it spends more periods and 
> seldom results to anything.
>
> Easier solution for us, the users, would be to spread 2kHz up or down with 
> vfo dial. That way a part of "official" dial traffic can still be seen.But 
> also this seems to be too difficult in practice.
>
> Good "bad" example is 6m. All stations use 50.313 and just few are brave 
> enough to call CQ with 50.323 dial.
>
> One good thing also to mention from 6m: It seems that with EU-AS qsos most of 
> the EU stations use 1st/even period for calling and AS stations use 2nd/odd 
> period. It makes working a little bit easier than in HF bands.
>
> --
> Saku
> OH1KH
>
> Tim Goeppinger via wsjt-devel kirjoitti 8.7.2021 klo 6.07:
>
> There are so many times on FT8 or FT4 that the station you are in QSO with is 
> buried in QRM by a signal they probably don't even know is on their audio 
> frequency.
>
> On future releases of FT4 or FT8, if there is ever a spare bit in the message 
> formats, I propose adding a "please QSY to my tx audio frequency" bit.   
> There would be a "Pse QSY: button on the user interface that would be off by 
> default.
> There would be an indicator to the other op that a QSY is requested, and it 
> is up to them whether or not to hit the up arrow button to sync TX 
> frequencies.
>
> There have been several times on 6 meters recently where this could have been 
> helpful, and would have cut down on all of the repeats back and forth.
>
> Thanks for your consideration & 73,
>
> Tim N6GP


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Reino Talarmo]

Well, we should ask which problem we are trying to solve. 
Bill solution would tell to the transmitting operator whether there is a
strong (local) QRM on his transmission frequency and it may be wise to find
a new free spot. 
In the original scenario operator wanted to move DX station to a new
frequency (actually to his TX frequency) as there is QRM on DX station TX
frequency at operators location (but may not be at DX station location). If
the operator of the DX station had this transmit frequency QRM checking,
then there is a high possibility that he would not detect the QRM that is
causing the wish for QSY. 
Best DX's
73, Reino OH3mA

-Original Message-
From: Jim Brown [mailto:k...@audiosystemsgroup.com] 
Sent: 8. heinäkuutata 2021 23:51
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to
your Frequency

That's of of the things I like about you, Bill -- simple, logical solutions
to real world problems!

73, Jim K9YC

On 7/8/2021 1:19 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
> I have a significantly different way to try to address the underlying 
> problem. I'm not sure if it is even possible, and it is a fairly big 
> change.
> 
> When operating on CW, I use full break-in (QSK) to monitor my transmit 
> frequency. When operating voice and other data modes, the transmit 
> times aren't synchronized, so monitoring the frequency between 
> transmissions can be effective.
> 
> These techniques don't work with the JT modes. However, they have an 
> excellent ability to decode a message in spite of significant fading. 
> It should be possible to switch to receive during the middle of a 
> transmission to monitor the frequency and switch back with only minor 
> loss of decode effectiveness.
> 
> I have simulated this approach using a K3 by pressing the "Halt TX" 
> button for a second or two and then restarting the transmission 
> without having the other end miss the decode. If this procedure was 
> automatic, the windows of non-transmission could be shorter, reducing 
> the effects on decode.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Jim Brown]

That's of of the things I like about you, Bill -- simple, logical 
solutions to real world problems!


73, Jim K9YC

On 7/8/2021 1:19 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
I have a significantly different way to try to address the underlying 
problem. I'm not sure if it is even possible, and it is a fairly big 
change.


When operating on CW, I use full break-in (QSK) to monitor my transmit 
frequency. When operating voice and other data modes, the transmit times 
aren't synchronized, so monitoring the frequency between transmissions 
can be effective.


These techniques don't work with the JT modes. However, they have an 
excellent ability to decode a message in spite of significant fading. It 
should be possible to switch to receive during the middle of a 
transmission to monitor the frequency and switch back with only minor 
loss of decode effectiveness.


I have simulated this approach using a K3 by pressing the "Halt TX" 
button for a second or two and then restarting the transmission without 
having the other end miss the decode. If this procedure was automatic, 
the windows of non-transmission could be shorter, reducing the effects 
on decode.




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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Bill Frantz]

I have a significantly different way to try to address the 
underlying problem. I'm not sure if it is even possible, and it 
is a fairly big change.


When operating on CW, I use full break-in (QSK) to monitor my 
transmit frequency. When operating voice and other data modes, 
the transmit times aren't synchronized, so monitoring the 
frequency between transmissions can be effective.


These techniques don't work with the JT modes. However, they 
have an excellent ability to decode a message in spite of 
significant fading. It should be possible to switch to receive 
during the middle of a transmission to monitor the frequency and 
switch back with only minor loss of decode effectiveness.


I have simulated this approach using a K3 by pressing the "Halt 
TX" button for a second or two and then restarting the 
transmission without having the other end miss the decode. If 
this procedure was automatic, the windows of non-transmission 
could be shorter, reducing the effects on decode.


I dream of being able to press a button to invoke this 
procedure, and get back something like a signal to noise level 
on the channel: a low S/N meaning the channel is not occupied.


73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz|"After all, if the conventional wisdom was 
working, the
408-348-7900   | rate of systems being compromised would be 
going down,

www.pwpconsult.com | wouldn't it?" -- Marcus Ranum



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Jim Brown]

On 7/8/2021 12:02 PM, Jon Anhold wrote:
There are absolutely guys running narrow filters where you have to get 
very close to them, or even right ON their frequency for them to hear 
you. Apparently they have no idea what they are missing.


Not only missing callers, but also degrading the decoding process, as a 
result of the phase shift in those filters. Joe has made it clear in the 
User Guide that RX bandwidth should be wide, to minimize this effect.


But many fail to study the User Guide, nor Release Notes, nor Quick 
Start Guides.


73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Jon Anhold]

This, for sure. I wrote a command for a bot in our Slack channel that will
query the pskrepoter API, if the station is reporting to it, and tell me
the "rx bandwidth" of a station based on who they are spotting, but it
isn't an exact science.

There are absolutely guys running narrow filters where you have to get very
close to them, or even right ON their frequency for them to hear you.
Apparently they have no idea what they are missing.



On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 2:10 PM David Tiller  wrote:

>
>
> On Jul 8, 2021, at 1:21 PM, Gary McDuffie  wrote:
>
> I find a few of them won’t bother to respond until I’m within a few
> hundred hertz of them.
>
>
> You hit the nail on the head with this comment. I think there are still
> operators that insist on using narrow filters and are therefore deaf to
> callers outside their tiny passband. It's annoying to have to jump into the
> inevitable pileup on/near their TX frequency only to be swamped by KW-class
> stations.
>
> My $0.02.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[David Tiller]

> On Jul 8, 2021, at 1:21 PM, Gary McDuffie  wrote:
> 
> I find a few of them won’t bother to respond until I’m within a few hundred 
> hertz of them.

You hit the nail on the head with this comment. I think there are still 
operators that insist on using narrow filters and are therefore deaf to callers 
outside their tiny passband. It's annoying to have to jump into the inevitable 
pileup on/near their TX frequency only to be swamped by KW-class stations. 

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Gary McDuffie]

> On Jul 7, 2021, at 9:07 PM, Tim Goeppinger via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> On future releases of FT4 or FT8, if there is ever a spare bit in the message 
> formats, I propose adding a "please QSY to my tx audio frequency" bit.   
> There would be a "Pse QSY: button on the user interface that would be off by 
> default.
> There would be an indicator to the other op that a QSY is requested, and it 
> is up to them whether or not to hit the up arrow button to sync TX 
> frequencies.   

Two things, first of all, if I send a message more than three times in a row, I 
automatically QSY to a new tone.  Second, you don’t want them to QSY to your 
frequency, just to a new one.

The real danger in this is that you will lose the contact.  That’s because for 
some unexplained reason, some people seem to go deaf when you move.  There’s no 
good reason for it, except QRM.  If I lose him, I’ll try another frequency, 
often a little closer to where he is.  I find a few of them won’t bother to 
respond until I’m within a few hundred hertz of them.  Now and then, I’ll do it 
just to see how the other guy operates.  Frequently, they will disappear when I 
move.  Why?  Who knows.  There’s no reason for it.  The program will respond, 
no matter where they are in the audio bandpass.  Typically, I’m transmitting on 
the opposite end of the spectrum from where the other guy is.  I smile when I 
catch one calling me on 200hz when I’m at 2500+.  :)

Again, I think you’re trying to program a fix for something that can easily be 
done by the operators.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Saku]

Hmm.. Once again used wrong sender address...

Sakari Nylund kirjoitti 8.7.2021 klo 13.43:
Usually if we think human mind CQ is placed to frequency that seems 
(by caller) to be empty.
Answering that CQ at same frequency has no mind as there are several 
other answering at same frequency (they do not use "Hold TX freq" 
checked).


So trying to get qso from same frequency may not lead to anything. But 
when you have got qso, using split frequency and qso stuck up, it 
might be worth of trying few times at callers own frequency because it 
is good change he/she sees it free over there.



--
Saku
OH1KH



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Claude Frantz]

On 7/8/21 9:40 AM, Reino Talarmo wrote:

Hi Reino & all,

Saku's proposal does exactly the same without any modification of the 
code or the protocol. If the partner station refuses deliberately to 
change its frequency or if (s)he cannot copy the QSY free style message, 
you can only continue to repeat in the protocol sequence.


Please remember that what you see on the waterfall of your monitor, can 
be very different from that what your partner station sees on his/her 
monitor. This is especially important to remember because your signal 
can be scrambled by another station, which you cannot see on your own 
monitor. It can be very helpful to try to change your own frequency if 
you see that your partner cannot copy your signal.


Best wishes,
Claude (DJ0OT)


There are so many times on FT8 or FT4 that the station you are in QSO
with is buried in QRM by a signal they probably don't even know is on
their audio frequency.



On future releases of FT4 or FT8, if there is ever a spare bit in the
message formats, I propose adding a "please QSY to my tx audio
frequency" bit.   There would be a "Pse QSY: button on the user
interface that would be off by default.



There would be an indicator to the other op that a QSY is requested,
and it is up to them whether or not to hit the up arrow button to
sync TX frequencies.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Reino Talarmo]

There are so many times on FT8 or FT4 that the station you are in QSO with is 
buried in QRM by a signal they probably don't even know is on their audio 
frequency.

 

On future releases of FT4 or FT8, if there is ever a spare bit in the message 
formats, I propose adding a "please QSY to my tx audio frequency" bit.   There 
would be a "Pse QSY: button on the user interface that would be off by default.

There would be an indicator to the other op that a QSY is requested, and it is 
up to them whether or not to hit the up arrow button to sync TX frequencies.   

 

There have been several times on 6 meters recently where this could have been 
helpful, and would have cut down on all of the repeats back and forth.

 

Thanks for your consideration & 73,

 

Tim N6GP

Hi Tim,

I have used with some success free text message ’N6GP QSY HR’, also ‘N6GP UP 
150’ may work.
I think that bit will be too ‘expensive’, if you want to send it with other 
information such as grid, ‘-20’, ‘R-20’, ‘RR73’ or ‘RRR’. If it sent as ‘N6GP 
OH3MA QSY’, where QSY means what you proposed, then that value may fit in. On 
the other hand it would be just another message and free text may work as well.

73, Reino OH3mA

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Saku]

Yes!

I have suggested this kind of solution years ago.
Now I have tried free message "QSY MY QRG" but it spends more periods 
and seldom results to anything.


Easier solution for us, the users, would be to spread 2kHz up or down 
with vfo dial. That way a part of "official" dial traffic can still be 
seen.But also this seems to be too difficult in practice.


Good "bad" example is 6m. All stations use 50.313 and just few are brave 
enough to call CQ with 50.323 dial.


One good thing also to mention from 6m: It seems that with EU-AS qsos 
most of the EU stations use 1st/even period for calling and AS stations 
use 2nd/odd period. It makes working a little bit easier than in HF bands.


--
Saku
OH1KH

Tim Goeppinger via wsjt-devel kirjoitti 8.7.2021 klo 6.07:
There are so many times on FT8 or FT4 that the station you are in QSO 
with is buried in QRM by a signal they probably don't even know is on 
their audio frequency.


On future releases of FT4 or FT8, if there is ever a spare bit in the 
message formats, I propose adding a "please QSY to my tx audio 
frequency" bit. There would be a "Pse QSY: button on the user 
interface that would be off by default.
There would be an indicator to the other op that a QSY is requested, 
and it is up to them whether or not to hit the up arrow button to sync 
TX frequencies.


There have been several times on 6 meters recently where this could 
have been helpful, and would have cut down on all of the repeats back 
and forth.


Thanks for your consideration & 73,

Tim N6GP


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[wsjt-devel] Message Bit to Request Other Station to QSY to your Frequency

[Tim Goeppinger via wsjt-devel]

There are so many times on FT8 or FT4 that the station you are in QSO with is 
buried in QRM by a signal they probably don't even know is on their audio 
frequency.
On future releases of FT4 or FT8, if there is ever a spare bit in the message 
formats, I propose adding a "please QSY to my tx audio frequency" bit.   There 
would be a "Pse QSY: button on the user interface that would be off by 
default.There would be an indicator to the other op that a QSY is requested, 
and it is up to them whether or not to hit the up arrow button to sync TX 
frequencies.   

There have been several times on 6 meters recently where this could have been 
helpful, and would have cut down on all of the repeats back and forth.
Thanks for your consideration & 73,
Tim N6GP
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