[xmail] hotmail delivery problems
Hello, I'm new in this list. I installed Xmail on win2k, and I have delivery problems to hotmail. Some messages get delivered, some simply get lost. The log shows no sign of problem. I've also done some testing with gmail and yahoo, no problem there, everything gets delivered. I have another server with Postfix installed, and there I have no problems with hotmail, so I assume the issue is between Xmail and hotmail. Anyone had any similar issues? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems
SPF configuration problem ???... Hotmail look for SPF key in your DNS... If you are hosting multiple domains on your e-mail server is possible to forget SPF line for one of them... Also did you chech all the Trash folder into Hotmail account?? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 martie 2008 07:56 To: xmail Subject: [xmail] hotmail delivery problems Hello, I'm new in this list. I installed Xmail on win2k, and I have delivery problems to hotmail. Some messages get delivered, some simply get lost. The log shows no sign of problem. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: Header 'Received :' question/suggestion
-Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] la part de Davide Libenzi Envoy=E9 : vendredi 21 mars 2008 06:50 =C0 : 'xmail@xmailserver.org' Objet : [xmail] Re: Header 'Received :' question/suggestion On Wed, 19 Mar 2008, CLEMENT Francis wrote: Hello Davide and list =20 Here is a sample xmail generated 'Received :' header : =20 Received: from some_sender_name ([aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd]:p) (not important) =20 What is exactly the 'some_sender_name' actual value ? - The value of the HELO/EHLO ? - The reverse dns of aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd ? =20 And what is the corresponding field in the different logs=20 generated by xmail ? same as the one used in generating the 'received :' header ? =20 Suggestion : Depending of the response to the above question, could it be=20 possible to add (options in server.tab ?) the other value ? ie : Received: from some_sender_name=20 ([aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd]:p) (RDNS : therevdnsvalue) There're too many software relying of parsing Received: headers, and I = don't want to change and possibly break them. The RFC does not=20 contemplate=20 it, so better not touch it. - Davide - Sure but does these softwares assume it is the HELO/EHLO or the RDNS ? And as there is no mandatory (in rfc) about the exact content of an Received: header (except some minimum info), I don't think that = adding some (or changing/interverting the value of some by another, here = helo/ehlo value by rdns value) can break relying software because it's not mandaroty :) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: Header 'Received :' question/suggestion
On 20 Mar 2008, at 22:50, Davide Libenzi wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2008, CLEMENT Francis wrote: Hello Davide and list Here is a sample xmail generated 'Received :' header : Received: from some_sender_name ([aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd]:p) (not important) What is exactly the 'some_sender_name' actual value ? - The value of the HELO/EHLO ? - The reverse dns of aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd ? And what is the corresponding field in the different logs generated by xmail ? same as the one used in generating the 'received :' header ? Suggestion : Depending of the response to the above question, could it be possible to add (options in server.tab ?) the other value ? ie : Received: from some_sender_name ([aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd]:p) (RDNS : therevdnsvalue) There're too many software relying of parsing Received: headers, and I don't want to change and possibly break them. The RFC does not contemplate it, so better not touch it. Yes, for emails received bcc to several recipients there seems to be no easy method to determine the user they were intended for. I filter on received headers for this purpose as more general than the occasional 'envelope to' or other similar headers that may be present. For me this is Postscript related rather than Xmail as my secondary mx is a catch-all mailbox on separate ISP and Mercury collects by pop3 and filters on received. When changes are made to Postscript and/or ISPs config I sometimes have to change filters (last time was a few years ago). David - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems
On 21 Mar 2008, at 1:56, max toro q wrote: Hello, I'm new in this list. I installed Xmail on win2k, and I have delivery problems to hotmail. Some messages get delivered, some simply get lost. The log shows no sign of problem. I've also done some testing with gmail and yahoo, no problem there, everything gets delivered. I have another server with Postfix installed, and there I have no problems with hotmail, so I assume the issue is between Xmail and hotmail. Anyone had any similar issues? Yes but not very often. Mails are accepted but never delivered. Similar with AOL. I guess it's one way to reduce spam and they are happy to occasionally lose their customers emails in the process. When I last had problem with hotmail, after fair number of test mails I could see it was only one of their servers dropping them. David - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems
At 12.47 21/03/08, David Lord wrote: On 21 Mar 2008, at 1:56, max toro q wrote: I installed Xmail on win2k, and I have delivery problems to hotmail. Some messages get delivered, some simply get lost. The log shows no sign of problem. Yes but not very often. Mails are accepted but never delivered. Not sure we're talking about the same thing, anyway from time to time my users complain that mails for hotmail accounts are not delivered, meaning that the receiver did not receive them and the sender was not notified of any error. Every time I have investigated I found that hotmail did accept the message for delivery: smail logs say that. For me, this means that XMail did its job and the problem (if any: you know, 90% of a computer's problems lie between the keyboard and the chair ...) is with hotmail: if a MTA accepts a message for delivery, it must either deliver or bounce. Ciao, Francesco - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems
On 21 Mar 2008, at 16:41, Francesco Vertova wrote: At 12.47 21/03/08, David Lord wrote: On 21 Mar 2008, at 1:56, max toro q wrote: I installed Xmail on win2k, and I have delivery problems to hotmail. Some messages get delivered, some simply get lost. The log shows no sign of problem. Yes but not very often. Mails are accepted but never delivered. Not sure we're talking about the same thing, anyway from time to time my users complain that mails for hotmail accounts are not delivered, meaning that the receiver did not receive them and the sender was not notified of any error. Every time I have investigated I found that hotmail did accept the message for delivery: smail logs say that. For me, this means that XMail did its job and the problem (if any: you know, 90% of a computer's problems lie between the keyboard and the chair ...) is with hotmail: if a MTA accepts a message for delivery, it must either deliver or bounce. Sorry I left it a little ambiguous. Exact same as you, Xmail delivered to hotmail so far as I could tell (that was before logging of the receipt code was added) hotmail accepted but from hotmail server (in my case, just on one particular ip address) it wasn't delivered to recipient. David - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems
if a MTA accepts a message for delivery, it must either deliver or bounce.. While this was a nice idea at one time, it really isn't desirable any more. Why? SPAM. I get thousands of emails that I accept but are then rejected by my spam filtering. You don't want me sending all those bounce messages to your users (whose email address was forged in the email). I would assume that hotmail (and the others) have user options that say 'delete spam', so they don't have to look at it in their spam folder. This could the reason that it goes into hotmail, and the user never sees it. Some filtering is done when the email arrives, but a lot of time more filtering is done later. I run a mail server from my home, with static ip's and rdns. But almost all mail I send to a yahoo account will go into the users spam folder until they say allow it. Doesn't matter what is in the email, if it was sent to one person or to several. I would love to receive a bounce for messages I actually sent, but I can not handle getting the bounces from every message that says it came from me. Phillip From: Francesco Vertova Sent: Fri 3/21/2008 10:41 AM To: xmail@xmailserver.org Subject: [xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems At 12.47 21/03/08, David Lord wrote: On 21 Mar 2008, at 1:56, max toro q wrote: I installed Xmail on win2k, and I have delivery problems to hotmail. Some messages get delivered, some simply get lost. The log shows no sign of problem. Yes but not very often. Mails are accepted but never delivered. Not sure we're talking about the same thing, anyway from time to time my users complain that mails for hotmail accounts are not delivered, meaning that the receiver did not receive them and the sender was not notified of any error. Every time I have investigated I found that hotmail did accept the message for delivery: smail logs say that. For me, this means that XMail did its job and the problem (if any: you know, 90% of a computer's problems lie between the keyboard and the chair ...) is with hotmail: if a MTA accepts a message for delivery, it must either deliver or bounce. Ciao, Francesco - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems
At 19.16 21/03/08, Phillip R. Shaw wrote: if a MTA accepts a message for delivery, it must either deliver or bounce.. While this was a nice idea at one time, it really isn't desirable any more. Why? SPAM. I get thousands of emails that I accept but are then rejected by my spam filtering. You don't want me sending all those bounce messages to your users (whose email address was forged in the email). If a MTA thinks an incoming mail is spam, it can reject it with a 5xx. If it doesn't - i.e., accepts it for delivery - then it must deliver or bounce (indeed, I think it's required to do that by relevant RFCs). I would assume that hotmail (and the others) have user options that say 'delete spam', so they don't have to look at it in their spam folder. This could the reason that it goes into hotmail, and the user never sees it. Some filtering is done when the email arrives, but a lot of time more filtering is done later. Yes, I think what is happening is that hotmail or others mark the mail as spam and place it somewhere, users don't realize it and say I didn't receive it. Actually it is delivered, and users can read it if they like and know how. Ciao, Francesco - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems
I agree the RFC's still require it. I agree that an MTA can reject with a 5xx if it does not like the message. But, to say that a system that accepts all incoming email and filters at a later stage is required to send bounce messages on all the rejected email later is making a bad problem worse. I am a perfect example of that. I reject at the MTA for RBLs. But accept pretty much everything else for later scanning on a much faster computer. I could send 30-40 thousand bounce messages a day, to people that did not actually send the emails. But instead I just throw them away. Requiring the internet connected MTA to do all the filtering is not practical for everyone, or even for most people. I am reasonable sure yahoo for one will queue up incoming email for later processing when the loads are high (new spam blast going on). For them to then send bounce messages for all the queued messages would flood many other servers. And I am sure that yahoo is not the only one that has an incoming volume great enough to only perform the fast checks on accepting the email and then do the more intense filtering later. Keep in mind that most of the email received by internet connected MTA's is spam. Numbers vary but I don't remember seeing a number under 50% for many years and for my own servers it is 500 good to 20-60 thousand spam. It is not practical to try and filter all of them at the MTA connection time. Phillip From: Francesco Vertova Sent: Fri 3/21/2008 1:43 PM To: xmail@xmailserver.org Subject: [xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems At 19.16 21/03/08, Phillip R. Shaw wrote: if a MTA accepts a message for delivery, it must either deliver or bounce.. While this was a nice idea at one time, it really isn't desirable any more.. Why? SPAM. I get thousands of emails that I accept but are then rejected by my spam filtering. You don't want me sending all those bounce messages to your users (whose email address was forged in the email). If a MTA thinks an incoming mail is spam, it can reject it with a 5xx. If it doesn't - i.e., accepts it for delivery - then it must deliver or bounce (indeed, I think it's required to do that by relevant RFCs). I would assume that hotmail (and the others) have user options that say 'delete spam', so they don't have to look at it in their spam folder. This could the reason that it goes into hotmail, and the user never sees it. Some filtering is done when the email arrives, but a lot of time more filtering is done later. Yes, I think what is happening is that hotmail or others mark the mail as spam and place it somewhere, users don't realize it and say I didn't receive it. Actually it is delivered, and users can read it if they like and know how. Ciao, Francesco - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems
I don't think it's a SPF issue. I have another server with Postfix running, and all messages that I send to Hotnail through that server are delivered. But with Xmail messages get lost almost always. I've done all my testing using the same client computer (with static IP), same client software and same recipient address, the only thing that changes is the SMTP server, so I can assume it is an issue between Xmail and Hotmail. It is hard to ignore the huge percentage of Hotmail users worldwide. 2008/3/21, Romeo Catalin Gales [EMAIL PROTECTED]: SPF configuration problem ???... Hotmail look for SPF key in your DNS... If you are hosting multiple domains on your e-mail server is possible to forget SPF line for one of them... Also did you chech all the Trash folder into Hotmail account?? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 martie 2008 07:56 To: xmail Subject: [xmail] hotmail delivery problems Hello, I'm new in this list. I installed Xmail on win2k, and I have delivery problems to hotmail. Some messages get delivered, some simply get lost. The log shows no sign of problem. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008, max toro q wrote: I don't think it's a SPF issue. I have another server with Postfix running, and all messages that I send to Hotnail through that server are delivered. But with Xmail messages get lost almost always. Lost? I doubt. Dropped by Hotmail, likely. - Davide - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems
Davide, I totally agree that Hotmail drops the messages, but I don't have that problem when I use Postfix. Can you think of a reason for that? 2008/3/21, Davide Libenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, 21 Mar 2008, max toro q wrote: I don't think it's a SPF issue. I have another server with Postfix running, and all messages that I send to Hotnail through that server are delivered. But with Xmail messages get lost almost always. Lost? I doubt. Dropped by Hotmail, likely. - Davide - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[xmail] Re: hotmail delivery problems
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008, max toro q wrote: Davide, I totally agree that Hotmail drops the messages, but I don't have that problem when I use Postfix. Can you think of a reason for that? The likely have some broken script/filter on their side. Hard to say. I send emails to Hotfail accounts w/out any problems though. - Davide - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe xmail in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general help: send the line help in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
