Nix wrote:
> On 1 Dec 2008, David Miller verbalised:
>
>
>> A default that, btw, anti-socially totally ignores what people put
>> into their xorg.conf file unless they add yet another knob. That's
>> worse than a default change.
>>
>
> What's worse yet is that hal is the single most unstab
On 1 Dec 2008, David Miller verbalised:
> A default that, btw, anti-socially totally ignores what people put
> into their xorg.conf file unless they add yet another knob. That's
> worse than a default change.
What's worse yet is that hal is the single most unstable daemon I have
*ever* run on an
On 1 Dec 2008, Mikhail Gusarov stated:
> The problem is more general: there are "desktop" services which don't have
> good
> policy clients beside the ones tied to major DEs: Bluetooth, NetworkManager,
> HAL
> come to mind. They all need a Unix-style clients to be written, so those who
> don't us
On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 11:10 -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
> Xavier Bestel wrote:
> > On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 16:58 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> >> Le Lun 1 décembre 2008 16:47, Alexander E. Patrakov a écrit :
> >>
> >>> Apriori, there is no sensible default keyboard layout.
> >> There could be if
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 09:56:11 +, Colin Guthrie wrote:
> So assuming a netbook with built in touch pad and USB mouse, if X is
> started prior to HAL, it will find it's built-in devices no problem (as
> they've been saved in xorg.conf) and start using them, and later, when
> HAL starts, i
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 09:56:11AM +, Colin Guthrie wrote:
> Daniel Stone wrote:
> >> I also have seem reports of a users having problems after the
> >> switch to hal/evdev due to not restoring keyboard/mouse after
> >> suspend/resume.
> >
> > --disable-config-dbus --disable-config-hal
>
>
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 09:56:11AM +, Colin Guthrie wrote:
> Daniel Stone wrote:
> > Well, yes. If you're using HAL, then you're using evdev. If you're
> > using HAL to tell X that you're using another driver, then you're using
> > another driver. Oh yeah, and HAL won't add the same UDI twic
Daniel Stone wrote:
> Well, yes. If you're using HAL, then you're using evdev. If you're
> using HAL to tell X that you're using another driver, then you're using
> another driver. Oh yeah, and HAL won't add the same UDI twice.
So the correct solution here is to not use the "mouse" driver as pe
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 04:18:36AM -0200, Paulo César Pereira de Andrade wrote:
> >> One possible solution, that I proposed some time ago (but got no
> >> response) would be to add something like an "UDI" option to input
> >> devices. So, one could have something like this in his xorg.conf:
> >>
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 04:18:36AM -0200, Paulo César Pereira de Andrade wrote:
> >> One possible solution, that I proposed some time ago (but got no
> >> response) would be to add something like an "UDI" option to input
> >> devices. So, one could have something like this in his xorg.conf:
> >>
>> One possible solution, that I proposed some time ago (but got no
>> response) would be to add something like an "UDI" option to input
>> devices. So, one could have something like this in his xorg.conf:
>>
>> Section "InputDevice"
>> Identifier "Mouse1"
>> Driver "mouse"
>> Option
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 12:49:40AM -0200, Paulo César Pereira de Andrade wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 01:33:02PM +, Colin Guthrie wrote:
> >> 2. If the evdev driver is not installed on the system it does not flip
> >> it's default.
> >
> > Arguably, that's a busted configuration. The stan
> On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 01:33:02PM +, Colin Guthrie wrote:
>> 2. If the evdev driver is not installed on the system it does not flip
>> it's default.
>
> Arguably, that's a busted configuration. The standard fdi tells HAL to add
> input.x11_driver=evdev (on linux systems). If you then deny X
On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 01:39 -0800, David Miller wrote:
>
> I'm not against any of this stuff, I'm against it being
> done by default which breaks things on existing systems
> that try to build GIT xorg and help you guys test things.
In the particular case of --disable-builtin-fonts, I think 'only
Peter Hutterer wrote:
> Pretty much the same behaviour when you remove mouse/kbd, btw.
Yeah I guess I can't argue with that logic ;)
Col
--
Colin Guthrie
gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie
http://colin.guthr.ie/
Day Job:
Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/]
Open Source:
Mandriva Linux C
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 01:33:02PM +, Colin Guthrie wrote:
> 2. If the evdev driver is not installed on the system it does not flip
> it's default.
Arguably, that's a busted configuration. The standard fdi tells HAL to add
input.x11_driver=evdev (on linux systems). If you then deny X the driv
Xavier Bestel wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 16:58 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>> Le Lun 1 décembre 2008 16:47, Alexander E. Patrakov a écrit :
>>
>>> Apriori, there is no sensible default keyboard layout.
>> There could be if the hardware started advertising what actually
>> painted on its keys
Daniel Stone wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 01:33:02PM +, Colin Guthrie wrote:
>> James Cloos wrote:
>>> Using --disable-config-dbus --disable-config-hal when configuring will
>>> drop the input mess and use the spec from xorg.conf.
>> Having just experienced this exact issue, I don'
Daniel Stone wrote:
> __ ___ _ _ _ _ _ _ ___
> \ \ / / / ___| | __ )| | | |_ _| |_ _| | | |_ _/ ___|
> \ V /| _| \___ \ | _ \| | | | | | | | | |_| || |\___ \
> | | | |___ ___) | | |_) | |_| | | | | | | _ || | ___) |
> |_| |_|
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 04:11:46PM +, Alan Cox wrote:
> > > Apriori, there is no sensible default keyboard layout.
> >
> > Yes, there is, and it's called US. This isn't being Anglo-centric or
>
> Which US layout - there are several and then you get all the variants
> with extra funny buttons
On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 16:58 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>
> Le Lun 1 décembre 2008 16:47, Alexander E. Patrakov a écrit :
>
> > Apriori, there is no sensible default keyboard layout.
>
> There could be if the hardware started advertising what actually
> painted on its keys (and even then many
> > Apriori, there is no sensible default keyboard layout.
>
> Yes, there is, and it's called US. This isn't being Anglo-centric or
Which US layout - there are several and then you get all the variants
with extra funny buttons for internet etc ?
> anything, and I'm not going to argue the point.
Twas brillig at 16:58:42 01.12.2008 UTC+01 when [EMAIL PROTECTED] did gyre and
gimble:
>> Apriori, there is no sensible default keyboard layout.
NM> There could be if the hardware started advertising what actually
NM> painted on its keys
/me wonders what "Happy Hacking Blank Top" keyboards w
Le Lun 1 décembre 2008 16:47, Alexander E. Patrakov a écrit :
> Apriori, there is no sensible default keyboard layout.
There could be if the hardware started advertising what actually
painted on its keys (and even then many people would want to override
it). Since it does not, you're right.
--
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 08:47:02PM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
> 2008/12/1 Corbin Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Now, the big difference between HAL and udev is that udev sets its defaults
> > based on LSB. I don't know whether or not LSB has anything to say about
> > keyboard layouts, or
2008/12/1 Corbin Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Would a udev analogy be appropriate?
I think, yes.
> udev is a userspace program that
> manages a very low-level policy for the kernel. It's responsible for setting
> sensible defaults, but can be fully customized in order to fit the needs of
> anyb
Hi,
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 01:33:02PM +, Colin Guthrie wrote:
> James Cloos wrote:
> > Using --disable-config-dbus --disable-config-hal when configuring will
> > drop the input mess and use the spec from xorg.conf.
>
> Having just experienced this exact issue, I don't think this is correct.
Daniel Stone wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 10:47:06AM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
>> Also, currently, for unconfigured Xorg, such newly-added keyboard gets
>> the "us" layout. This is also a hard-coded policy, should we remove it?
>
> Ignoring both the rhetoric and the fact that neith
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:38 PM, Alexander E. Patrakov
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It is traditionally the default only in Xorg. If you get a Russian
> version of Windows 2000 or XP, Russian will be the default, with the
> possibility to switch to English with Alt+Shift. Also, even in the US
>
James Cloos wrote:
> Using --disable-config-dbus --disable-config-hal when configuring will
> drop the input mess and use the spec from xorg.conf.
Having just experienced this exact issue, I don't think this is correct.
The new server flag AllowEmptyInput does two things wrong right now IMO.
1.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, James Cloos wrote:
>> "David" == David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> David> Yet my emacs fonts are fux0red, my input device specifications in
> David> my xorg.conf file are completely ignored, and MetaSendsEscape no
> David> longer works with my xterms, with the cu
> "David" == David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
David> Yet my emacs fonts are fux0red, my input device specifications in
David> my xorg.conf file are completely ignored, and MetaSendsEscape no
David> longer works with my xterms, with the current X server.
Using --disable-config-dbus --d
From: "Nicolas Mailhot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:26:51 +0100 (CET)
>
>
> Le Lun 1 décembre 2008 11:19, David Miller a écrit :
> >
> > From: "Nicolas Mailhot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:58:17 +0100 (CET)
> >
> >> If there is somethign obvious here, is tha
Le Lun 1 décembre 2008 11:19, David Miller a écrit :
>
> From: "Nicolas Mailhot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:58:17 +0100 (CET)
>
>> If there is somethign obvious here, is that emacs maintainers didn't
>> made due diligence by any reasonable definition. Even the kernel
>> made
>
From: Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:05:46 +1100
> On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 01:39:32AM -0800, David Miller wrote:
> > From: "Nicolas Mailhot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:49:29 +0100 (CET)
> >
> > > Ironically fontconfig was adopted in large part beca
From: "Nicolas Mailhot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:58:17 +0100 (CET)
> If there is somethign obvious here, is that emacs maintainers didn't
> made due diligence by any reasonable definition. Even the kernel made
> major changes (devfs, sysfs, etc) in the time it took for emacs fo
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 01:39:32AM -0800, David Miller wrote:
> From: "Nicolas Mailhot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:49:29 +0100 (CET)
>
> > Ironically fontconfig was adopted in large part because the core fonts
> > system had major problems with internationalization.
>
> Ironic
Le Lun 1 décembre 2008 10:39, David Miller a écrit :
>
> From: "Nicolas Mailhot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:49:29 +0100 (CET)
>
>> Ironically fontconfig was adopted in large part because the core
>> fonts
>> system had major problems with internationalization.
>
> Ironically y
From: "Nicolas Mailhot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:49:29 +0100 (CET)
> Ironically fontconfig was adopted in large part because the core fonts
> system had major problems with internationalization.
Ironically you didn't read my posting.
I'm not against any of this stuff, I'm aga
Twas brillig at 20:22:30 01.12.2008 UTC+11 when [EMAIL PROTECTED] did gyre and
gimble:
DS> [0]: Emacs in 'utter luddites' shock.
Not anymore.
--
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On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 09:49:29AM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> IIRC even SUN was told in no incertain terms
> it could forget its own next-gen font system because everyone that
> mattered had adopted fontconfig
I may be completely wrong on this one, but ISTR one of the problems with
STSF (asid
Twas brillig at 11:38:21 01.12.2008 UTC+05 when [EMAIL PROTECTED] did gyre and
gimble:
AEP> Then it may be a good idea to write such client (even without the pop-up,
AEP> a static default stored in the configuration file will also work) and add
AEP> it to xorg-apps as an example implementatio
Le Lun 1 décembre 2008 08:19, David Miller a écrit :
> But what I spend most of my time doing is figuring out what new
> "default" breaks Xorg on my system. This was one of them.
>
> The other one was the internal fonts stuff with the X server, which
> caused me to lose my Emacs international f
I just want to voice my dislike of the HAL input layer stuff, but just
that it's the default. Right now that doesn't make any sense.
I try to keep uptodate with current GIT to make sure sparc doesn't
break.
But what I spend most of my time doing is figuring out what new
"default" breaks Xorg on
Peter Hutterer wrote:
> I was referring to DE as a concept, not as a specific implementation. It
> counts as part of whatever you're running afterwards, may be gnome, kde,
> xfce or my-happy-bunch-of-shellscripts.
OK. Anyway, my point about XDM as the example implementation not
following the mode
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 10:47:06AM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
> Peter Hutterer wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 09:55:03AM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
>>> Obvious problem: it is too late to set the keyboard layout in the
>>> desktop environment. The user has to type the logi
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 10:47:06AM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
> Also, currently, for unconfigured Xorg, such newly-added keyboard gets
> the "us" layout. This is also a hard-coded policy, should we remove it?
Ignoring both the rhetoric and the fact that neither of the input
maintainers
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 09:55:03AM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
> Peter Hutterer wrote:
> > Most other settings in the more popular input drivers are now configurable
> > at runtime too (where now == server 1.6), so you basically just have to
> > convince your DE to provide pretty interfaces
Peter Hutterer wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 09:55:03AM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
>> Obvious problem: it is too late to set the keyboard layout in the
>> desktop environment. The user has to type the login and the password
>> into the display manager, and the keyboard layout has t
Peter Hutterer wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 09:17:47PM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
>> However, xorg gets things like keyboard layouts from HAL. This is also
>> policy, and also important to get i18n right. But, for some reason, this
>> is allowed to exist in HAL, and default mount opt
Twas brillig at 10:28:24 01.12.2008 UTC+10 when [EMAIL PROTECTED] did gyre and
gimble:
PH> Most other settings in the more popular input drivers are now
PH> configurable at runtime too (where now == server 1.6), so you
PH> basically just have to convince your DE to provide pretty
PH> interfac
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 09:17:47PM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
> However, xorg gets things like keyboard layouts from HAL. This is also
> policy, and also important to get i18n right. But, for some reason, this
> is allowed to exist in HAL, and default mount options aren't. Could you,
>
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 09:17:47PM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
> However, xorg gets things like keyboard layouts from HAL. This is also
> policy, and also important to get i18n right. But, for some reason, this
> is allowed to exist in HAL, and default mount options aren't. Could you,
>
Beso wrote:
> 2008/11/30 Kalle Vahlman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> Amusingly, GNOME is already seeing push to move *away* from HAL:
>>
>>
>> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2008-November/msg00247.html
>>
> they're just substituting it with devicekit, that does the same thing
> hal d
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